Iris lilies, how are things in your hood?

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Originally Posted by Yossarian

Actually I think it is bordering on insane to not recognize that there there are lots of interactions and the one that you saw doesn't reflect all of them.

The weird dynamic here Rob is that I'm not a big fan of the cops myself. But you have just taken things so far to the exteme it's not leaving much room for reasonable discussion.

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Obviously, I don't consider my take extreme at all. I would question the intensity a bit to be honest with you if my neighbors - not the Guatemalans, btw, of course they won't ever see the police the same way again, either - didn't see this issue the same way. I don't know but I'm guessing some of it is social class conditioning and some of it is life experiences....I do know of a few people with money who agree with me though, so that blows my theory out of the water. Let's just say in my case that the trust has been permanently lost. Rob

I just realized this is a holiday - I'm going to take a break from this thread for a day or two barring significant events coming out of Ferguson. Honestly, by this time everyone knows my take and I'm not changing my mind and neither is anyone else.....this is a bit of a hot topic it seems. This took my a little bit by surprise but then again, this is not my neighborhood I live in on the board here and we do all have own unique experiences that factor into our takes here. Out of respect to that I'm giving it a rest for a bit. Happy Labor Day to all.

I am just getting caught up on neighborhood news from our listserv, and here's a note from one of our cops, not even our official beat cop. Gary is assigned to our district, not specifically to our neighborhood:

Gary Wiegert
Aug 30

I had a subject abandon a bike behind the house on the north side of 2000 block of Rutger street that is currently being rehabbed. The subject traveled from McKay, then Park Avenue and eventually through the east alley of Benton Place. The bike more then likely came from someone's yard or a garage burglary. The bike is described as blue and gray, Avelon, 7 speed bike. Please let me know if anyone knows the identity of the owner.

It's a Barney Fife message which police here deliver when they are doing Barney Fife type policing. Gary lives in my neighborhood. He's an official lobbyist for the main pro-legalization of marijuana group. His superiors are not happy about that role, but his union is backing him up in being able to do that. And what's funny is that he has told us that he's not even necessarily in favor of legalization, he wants the option to be explored seriously. Outlawing it has more effect on police work that we all would like. He's big in Libertarian politics locally.

This is just one brief portrait of a policeman we know. There's no brutilization going on, just neighborhood policing.

Iris - I worked a scene here a couple of years ago.

Domestic violence. Pretty ugly stuff. It had been ongoing.

This time, by the time law enforcement and emergency medical/rescue responded, the abused spouse and children had already fled the scene. We had credible statements that there was nobody else in the house but the abusive fellow.

Who was standing on the porch, with a gun, screaming. And threatening the first officer on scene. (Fire/medical/rescue don't go in first here before law enforcement "secures" the scene, it's a rule.)

I watched that officer talk the Bad Guy down, over the course of the next hour or so. He stood there in range, using words not guns. One of the bravest, and dumbest, things I've ever seen. The officer has a family and kids, and I presume he wanted to go home to them that night. He chose to assume the risk to himself of not simply shooting the fellow waving the gun at him, and called off the officers who were in place with rifles, while he talked the man into voluntarily disarming, so we could sedate him and transport him to a facility for mental evaluation.

So just what are you kids trying to say, here? Avalon bikes are those cheaply made bikes you can get at W-Mart or wherever. It's no wonder the suspect dumped it. Every now and then, I see the stereotypical character I call M.A.M.A. NOW! out and around. This is the fat little gal that has several little hyperactive kids, and they are out shopping. When she calls attention to one of them to cease and desist getting into things, She says NOW! Stop It NOW!......Put that candy bar down, NOW! I figure she has the TV on at all times, and has seen every episode of Foxes' "COPS" several times. Thats where she derives her role model as an authority figure, apprehending a perp. "Cody---stop hitting your sister---NOW!" See? She prolly drives an old Crown Vic, and kicks 'er on down, just to hear that waaaaaaaahhhh sound, too.

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Originally Posted by bae

.... And threatening the first officer on scene. (Fire/medical/rescue don't go in first here before law enforcement "secures" the scene, it's a rule.)

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That's a good policy. In recent years here in my city we had EMT go to the aid of a house where a domestic issue was taking place and the ER guy was shot dead. I'm not sure if they knew at the time they sent the emergency vehicle of the domestic problem.

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I watched that officer talk the Bad Guy down, over the course of the next hour or so. He stood there in range, using words not guns. One of the bravest, and dumbest, things I've ever seen. The officer has a family and kids, and I presume he wanted to go home to them that night. He chose to assume the risk to himself of not simply shooting the fellow waving the gun at him, and called off the officers who were in place with rifles, while he talked the man into voluntarily disarming, so we could sedate him and transport him to a facility for mental evaluation.

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That is great! If I were his wife I would have been furious with him, watching that happen, but great for all concerned that it turned out ok.

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Originally Posted by bae

Iris - I worked a scene here a couple of years ago.

Domestic violence. Pretty ugly stuff. It had been ongoing.

This time, by the time law enforcement and emergency medical/rescue responded, the abused spouse and children had already fled the scene. We had credible statements that there was nobody else in the house but the abusive fellow.

Who was standing on the porch, with a gun, screaming. And threatening the first officer on scene. (Fire/medical/rescue don't go in first here before law enforcement "secures" the scene, it's a rule.)

I watched that officer talk the Bad Guy down, over the course of the next hour or so. He stood there in range, using words not guns. One of the bravest, and dumbest, things I've ever seen. The officer has a family and kids, and I presume he wanted to go home to them that night. He chose to assume the risk to himself of not simply shooting the fellow waving the gun at him, and called off the officers who were in place with rifles, while he talked the man into voluntarily disarming, so we could sedate him and transport him to a facility for mental evaluation.

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That is amazing - and points out one of my peeves when people say all <whatever> are <whatever>. I think we deny the existence of individuals, and individual acts, whether they be good or bad when we stereotype. This sounds like an awesome individual.

Awhile back, I suggested the formation of a "Please Department", to get actively involved in law enforcement. That, in lieu of Daryl Gates-type SWAT TEAMS, ramping up minor incidents. But, you kids were too embroiled in a standoff with G.T.S.L.,( the Phoenix guy), to acknowledge what a brilliant idea it is. Ha. Now, here you are--going on and on and on about the kinder, gentler cops you share your donuts with. Another thing is: I believe stereotypes are beneficial. If you identify yourself in a negative stereotype, it gives you a model of behavior to avoid, from now on. See? One thing that was supposed to have been done during the Parker( and then Gates) regime in L.A. was to actually reduce the ratio of officers to citizens. Theoretically, the plan was to pay more for better-qualified people, and train them. Quality before Quantity. What actually happened was, the qualifications were: Prior military service, in combat or MP duty; Participation in Tackle Football in H.S., College, or the Pros. And last but not least, be a native of the Deep South, Texas, Oklahoma., so you will be able to deal with "those people" effectively. See? That is the stereotypical L.A. cop of the 1950's-60's-70's. I am serious. Bill Parker had been on the LAPD for 15 years, and when WWII started, he enlisted at age 37 & participated in the D-Day Invasion. When the war ended, he went right back to the LAPD, and became chief in 1950. So, he was a tough cookie. To cover his ulterior motives, he did in fact hire token minorities. But, back to here, this locale--After a tax increase was craftily shoved through several years ago, they hired more & more & more deputies. You can't go anywhere now, without passing several patrol cars. But, are they better personnel, with strong People Skills? Not from what I've heard. Small Man Complex? More than likely. And, they're not about to spend their time talking some fool down from the ledge. Essentially, what we have is the summary Death Penalty for failure to comply with a policemans' order. When they shoot someone, the officer goes on a paid leave, and after the formality of an internal invstigation, everything is back to normal. That, is how it works, here.

I think the police force really does vary. When I lived in the Midwest they did an awesome job. For some reason here every time there is an issue the person ends up dead. I think a culture develops in a police department about what is allowable behavior and what is not. I really hope that the body cameras make a difference and that if they turn them off that they face repercussions. However, I am not in favor of people losing their pensions over one incident. Also every country has their problems. My DIL is from Europe and she has interesting stories about different countries over there. Although she loves her country she prefers to live here.

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Originally Posted by Teacher Terry

I think the police force really does vary. When I lived in the Midwest they did an awesome job. For some reason here every time there is an issue the person ends up dead. I think a culture develops in a police department about what is allowable behavior and what is not. I really hope that the body cameras make a difference and that if they turn them off that they face repercussions. However, I am not in favor of people losing their pensions over one incident. Also every country has their problems. My DIL is from Europe and she has interesting stories about different countries over there. Although she loves her country she prefers to live here.

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I understand some defense attorneys take issue with cameras on cops because they worry that juries will tend to view the visual evidence from the cops' perspective. My guess is that in this self-involved age of ours it won't be long before everyone decides they want to document every second of their lives anyway.

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Originally Posted by Packy

Awhile back, I suggested the formation of a "Please Department", to get actively involved in law enforcement. That, in lieu of Daryl Gates-type SWAT TEAMS, ramping up minor incidents. But, you kids were too embroiled in a standoff with G.T.S.L.,( the Phoenix guy), to acknowledge what a brilliant idea it is. Ha. Now, here you are--going on and on and on about the kinder, gentler cops you share your donuts with. Another thing is: I believe stereotypes are beneficial. If you identify yourself in a negative stereotype, it gives you a model of behavior to avoid, from now on. See? One thing that was supposed to have been done during the Parker( and then Gates) regime in L.A. was to actually reduce the ratio of officers to citizens. Theoretically, the plan was to pay more for better-qualified people, and train them. Quality before Quantity. What actually happened was, the qualifications were: Prior military service, in combat or MP duty; Participation in Tackle Football in H.S., College, or the Pros. And last but not least, be a native of the Deep South, Texas, Oklahoma., so you will be able to deal with "those people" effectively. See? That is the stereotypical L.A. cop of the 1950's-60's-70's. I am serious. Bill Parker had been on the LAPD for 15 years, and when WWII started, he enlisted at age 37 & participated in the D-Day Invasion. When the war ended, he went right back to the LAPD, and became chief in 1950. So, he was a tough cookie. To cover his ulterior motives, he did in fact hire token minorities. But, back to here, this locale--After a tax increase was craftily shoved through several years ago, they hired more & more & more deputies. You can't go anywhere now, without passing several patrol cars. But, are they better personnel, with strong People Skills? Not from what I've heard. Small Man Complex? More than likely. And, they're not about to spend their time talking some fool down from the ledge. Essentially, what we have is the summary Death Penalty for failure to comply with a policemans' order. When they shoot someone, the officer goes on a paid leave, and after the formality of an internal invstigation, everything is back to normal. That, is how it works, here.

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Did you really consider it a standoff? Rob