Iris lilies, how are things in your hood?

Yes, I know its a sore topic in the US just as it was here when they outlawed firearms and they all had to be handed in to be destroyed. It was a shame because the majority of owners were safe and sensible but when they fall into the wrong hands the consequences are devastating. The US has to go down this road every year there are more indiscriminate shootings at schools etc. As terrorists infiltrate western countries more and more and find it easier to access automatic weapons the outcome will be unthinkable . The ISIS movement is gathering pace and the UK has raised its terrorist threat level to severe. Scary times ahead.

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Originally Posted by Davidwd

Originally Posted by Yossarian
Jealousy isn't healthy. Let me help you: http://police-brutality-uk.co.uk/cat...ice-brutality/
Did you not see a HUGE difference in what you posted re the UK and police here? In some of these stories the police are being investigated and/or are facing charges or potential charges. Also there is publicity surrounding these cases - no expectation for things to be quietly buried. It seems on the surface much healthier and saner than US police behavior - at least there is publicity and a realistic chance for consequences. Here we don't enjoy much of that I'm afraid. I'm of the opinion that we as a nation not only can do better but deserve better. Rob




Agree, there is a great deal of accountability here. I am not saying it never happens or there are never mistakes but generally speaking things are pretty fair over over here if you stay the right side of the law. I think the whole gun culture thing in the U.S is wrong. Too many innocent people are being killed due to the American lust for weapons.

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Agreed 100% about what you posted about the gun culture in the US. To me it's very scary and it's so ingrained in the American mentality I can't see it ever changing. I've learned to use it as a screen out tool in my personal life so it has some positive bearing on my life - those who are very into guns I am wary of and such people more than likely are not going to see eye to eye with me on a wide range of issues. I've learned in my life off this board to have little to so with such people though I'll be civil and even pleasant on a very superficial basis to their face. And I agree that far too many innocent people are being killed due to the American lust for weapons - a very good way of putting it. Cheers from the other side of the pond! Rob

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Originally Posted by Yossarian

LOL, way to gratuitously throw a little gas on the fire >8)




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Badger_001.jpg

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LOL gas on the fire? Sometimes it seems to me that that is my role here. Rob

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Originally Posted by Davidwd

Yes, I know its a sore topic in the US just as it was here when they outlawed firearms and they all had to be handed in to be destroyed. It was a shame because the majority of owners were safe and sensible but when they fall into the wrong hands the consequences are devastating. The US has to go down this road every year there are more indiscriminate shootings at schools etc. As terrorists infiltrate western countries more and more and find it easier to access automatic weapons the outcome will be unthinkable . The ISIS movement is gathering pace and the UK has raised its terrorist threat level to severe. Scary times ahead.

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I can't speak for the UK but I actually see some good in the future of the US due to more people becoming aware of police brutality and the tendency of some (but not all) cops to behave as they are above the law. There is a movement about (who knows if it will be succcesful or stick though) for less militarization of the police, for police to wear body cameras, and more and more people are suing for huge settlements when victims of illegal police misconduct. We really need wide sweeping changes in the US style of policing - it allows for too many victims and too many lawsuits in retaliation and not much trust or cooperation. Rob

For anyone interested, there is what I consider an interesting article on Salon.com that you can probably access by googling I'm Not Afraid to Die Why America Will Never Be The Same Post-Ferguson. I find the article so inspirational and it shows you how (to some degree anyway) how much hatred and disgust there is now for the status quo of the police getting away with being above the law. This is not going to go away. I'm so grateful, I really am.....I lost my emotional investment in the United States years ago but I do find joy in the rest of the world seeing American rot up close and personal. And I do find relief in the belief that change of some kind is coming. As I've posted many times, this is not just quietly going to go away, and thankfully due to the advent of social media, there is no real possibility that it can. Good! Rob

Just came back to add: On a more personal note, I'm still dating that man I met and went out with that one time after he asked me my take on Ferguson at the end of a banquet shift. Amazing to think that something positive could come out of this tragedy for me in this way.

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Originally Posted by Davidwd

Too many innocent people are being killed due to the American lust for weapons.

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It’s not so much lust for weapons as a lust for freedom. Americans really, really hate being told what to do. We’ve traditionally accepted living in possibly a less safe, less secure, less healthy society than more docile nations might not see as a reasonable price to pay. We are not, generally speaking, a reasonable people in the sense of trading liberty for social benefits. Personally, I wouldn’t have it any other way.

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Originally Posted by LDAHL

It’s not so much lust for weapons as a lust for freedom. Americans really, really hate being told what to do. We’ve traditionally accepted living in possibly a less safe, less secure, less healthy society than more docile nations might not see as a reasonable price to pay. We are not, generally speaking, a reasonable people in the sense of trading liberty for social benefits. Personally, I wouldn’t have it any other way.

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Interesting post. I think you may be on to something here. I for myself know I'd rather have the social benefits over the liberty any day as I've seen the price of liberty and the inequalities that arise as a result of this thinking and how easy it can be to fall through the cracks. Maybe this is somewhere near the crux of my issues with the US. It makes sense to me what you have posted here as I do believe many Americans see things this way and I don't and I can see where my thinking is pretty much a 180 in many ways from what you have posted here. Rob

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Originally Posted by LDAHL

It’s not so much lust for weapons as a lust for freedom. Americans really, really hate being told what to do. We’ve traditionally accepted living in possibly a less safe, less secure, less healthy society than more docile nations might not see as a reasonable price to pay. We are not, generally speaking, a reasonable people in the sense of trading liberty for social benefits. Personally, I wouldn’t have it any other way.

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I don't disagree at all with the American desire for freedom, although I do think the rugged, cowboy individualist now pretty much only exists in our egos and on Madison Ave. Another post that, but the real point is all these senseless deaths. They aren't in the name of freedom. For some reason more and more people are considering violence as a proper alternative in dispute resolution.

I've told the story, ad nausium, that there were more guns in the parking lot of my high school than there were students in the school. That culture wasn't gun crazy, they were simply tools that we used and almost everyone had them. Aside from one very tragic accidental death (and it really was a million to one fluke ricochet) that proliferation of guns never caused a single problem. Apparently there was not a single person in my home town that didn't get the message that guns were never to be used against other people.

So how did that message break down? What changed? If guns weren't a problem back then, they don't HAVE to be now, but obviously they are. A person with no problems + a gun (or 100 guns) = no problem. But as soon as the first part of that equation changes we do have a problem. What caused our society to lower the value of human life to the point where pulling out a gun and firing is acceptable in anything but the most extreme, threatening circumstance?

Nothing could be more politically convenient than a stand off over inanimate objects that have 1000 little nuances to allow infinite tweaking of the laws to satisfy all constituents that progress is being made. Until the citizens stop self-medicating and expose their heads to the light of day and start to demand real change aimed at the roots of our evils (poverty, access to education and healthcare, etc.) the political elite will be happy as clams to remain in charge of the flock. But of course that will never happen because its too much work and the way we have it now is so... convenient.

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Originally Posted by Gregg

So how did that message break down? What changed?

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We've devalued human life, most notably in the abortion debate where popular consensus seems to be that a life is not a life unless I value it, and we've made excuses for thuggery because it makes us feel better to hold those we look down upon to lower standards. It is the societal cost of progressivism.

I'd be curious to see if gun deaths are also up in other countries that have legalized abortion.