Trumps: White Angry Middleclass

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Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler

Here is the thing: Lefties don't want to make everyone pay our bills. We want everyone to pay their share.

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The critical issue is who enumerates "their share", both for the donors and the recipients. It's easy to agree that the sewage needs to be dealt with. It's harder to agree that everyone's entitled to free grad school.

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Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler

I'd say that is nonsense.

Here is a key example for you to ponder.

You see universal single payer healthcare as the gubmint taking away your freedom to choose doctors, services, blah, blah, blah.

But I see it this way. If I did not have to worry about healthcare, I could be free to spend my brain power doing other things and I would not be chained to a job I despise because I need the health insurance.

So universal healthcare would make me more free.

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I'd say the cost of your respect might very well out-weigh the benefit, but perhaps you value your respect disproportionately.

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Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler

We know that a public light-rail system costs some in tax investment. We get that. We is the smart too. lol

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If you city folk are so smart, why don't you pay for your own darned light rail?

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Originally Posted by bae

If you city folk are so smart, why don't you pay for your own darned light rail?

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Why don't you self-reliant country folk support yourselves without having to come to the city for some Costco!? ;)

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Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler

Why don't you self-reliant country folk support yourselves without having to come to the city for some Costco!? ;)

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Seems to me that most Costcos around here are built on cheap land in unincorporated areas, and not in the urban core. Light rail doesn't seem like it would do the job. Or allow easily transporting 3 months' supplies.

Tax yourselves if you want a shiny light rail system. My county currently pays state transportation taxes on every gallon of gas sold here, yet the state returns to us not one dollar to be spent in-county for our transport needs. It mostly seems to go to pay for Seattle's hobby of artisan mass transit.

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Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler

I think America needs to hit rock bottom before it can really rise up and be a respectable nation on par with Denmark or Norway or even Canada. Trump is America's rock bottom.

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Interesting take. Do you really believe the ravages of a Trump Presidency would cause suffering people to unite against turbo charged global capitalism? And to care more for their neighbors and the welfare of their community? It's a beautiful thought but I find myself with little faith in it.....Rob

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Originally Posted by Alan

What, in your mind, prevents the US from being a respectable nation now?

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OMG do you really want me to count the many ways, Alan? LOL. Rob

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Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler

The US needs:

-Universal single payer healthcare
-A more progressive tax system
-A smaller military budget
-High quality k-12 education for all kids
-High quality higher education that is affordable
-A union density of 50% or higher (card check, speedy elections, etc. could help this)
-Comprehensive bike lanes and light-rail for every major city

Alan, you probably could have guessed my answers. This ain't your first rodeo.

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Yes. I couldn't agree with you more. Especially about health care and mass transit. Rob

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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

Interesting take. Do you really believe the ravages of a Trump Presidency would cause suffering people to unite against turbo charged global capitalism? And to care more for their neighbors and the welfare of their community? It's a beautiful thought but I find myself with little faith in it.....Rob

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It'll be a bumpy 4 years, but it could lead to something amazing -- like tons of lefties in Congress and Elizabeth Warren as president.

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Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler

I'd say that is nonsense.

Here is a key example for you to ponder.

You see universal single payer healthcare as the gubmint taking away your freedom to choose doctors, services, blah, blah, blah.

But I see it this way. If I did not have to worry about healthcare, I could be free to spend my brain power doing other things and I would not be chained to a job I despise because I need the health insurance.

So universal healthcare would make me more free.

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So so so so True!!! One major reason I am completely disengaged from America is the after effects of all the years of constant fear of what happens if I get sick? I do have insurance now ( who knows for how long if Trump gets in?) and I'm finding that having insurance is not enough to wipe the slate clean and start over with America. There's just too much damage from the long term fear this citizenship causes in the lower social classes. I'm not ungrateful for the insurance, please don't get me wrong. I'm just worn to a crisp by the fear this citizenship causes it's less well off and I've found that just having insurance does not magically make the damage of long term fear go away. Better to have it than not, though. Rob