I saw someone on the news delivering vaccines to a medical facility and his mask was not covering his nose at all.
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I saw someone on the news delivering vaccines to a medical facility and his mask was not covering his nose at all.
I've been talking with more people like me who are pretty sure they had covid last winter, but we couldn't get antibody tests from our doctors/insurance to confirm our immunity. Others know for a fact they had it due to positive covid tests. These groups 1) should not have restrictions on them and 2) like Trump should volunteer to go to the back of the vaccine line.
Pets can get covid too. This makes sense because the virus was in animals before it was in humans. Yet there are no mask mandates for pets. Think of an outdoor cat and all the places it goes unsupervised.
The reason is masks are disgusting and the animal would keep clawing nonstop to get it off. We have more regard for animals than for humans.
A better approach is to social distance and this sweater can help those who do not know what 6 feet is:
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...301192250.html
I said there should be something like this in the spring and now there is!
You don't hear much about surface contact spread these days. Maybe it has been overshadowed by masks and social distancing and is still a risk? There was a day when I would let groceries, mail, packages, etc. sit out to decontaminate and take out is still out for me. I've mostly discontinued all of that although hand washing is still in. I've wondered with the big winter spike if i should be more careful.
Here is a reasonable discussion of surface contamination and the virus. https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020...-the-real-risk
According to the CDC website:
COVID-19 spreads less commonly through contact with contaminated surfaces.
Respiratory droplets can also land on surfaces and objects. It is possible that a person could get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or eyes.
Spread from touching surfaces is not thought to be a common way that COVID-19 spreads
COVID-19 rarely spreads between people and animals
It appears that the virus that causes COVID-19 can spread from people to animals in some situations. CDC is aware of a small number of pets worldwide, including cats and dogs, reported to be infected with the virus that causes COVID-19, mostly after close contact with people with COVID-19. Learn what you should do if you have pets.
At this time, the risk of COVID-19 spreading from animals to people is considered to be low. Learn about COVID-19 and pets and other animals.
Thanks. That's helpful. Sounds like it is possible for surface contact spread, but most unlikely.
I had an interesting pet situation come up. A friend invited a small group of four for an outdoor meal and evening discussion around a fire pit. Someone asked about their people friendly dog. I wasn't able to attend, but did think about friendly dog licking one hand and then going to the next person to be petted or to lick another's hand.
I heard on the radio there were no covid deaths in New Hampshire yesterday. The Granite State is fine with me going there but my governor prohibits it. So to "protect" me he insists I stay in a higher risk area. Talk about stupid nanny statism.
So what are you going to do about it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Again, the information that Jeppy presents is incorrect. Travel is not prohibited, but you are asked to quarantine when you get back or have a negative covid test.Quote:
heard on the radio there were no covid deaths in New Hampshire yesterday. The Granite State is fine with me going there but my governor prohibits it. So to "protect" me he insists I stay in a higher risk area. Talk about stupid nanny statism.
Plus, NH did not have zero deaths. Today there were 21. https://patch.com/new-hampshire/conc...-deaths-update This was the highest death rate of this pandemic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Whine, whine, whine... know how to do anything else?
Wow, this is just...special.
"We want them infected."
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/1...trategy-446408
We're number one! (In pandemic idiocy.)Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
Meanwhile, people are dying and suffering with long-lasting and permanent effects--like Herman Cain, and the director of White House Security who lost parts of a foot and one leg. Not everybody gets--or can afford--Trump's super-duper extra special COVID treatment.
"Let them eat cake..."Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
First we were told covid hit our shores in February, then January, then December, then November. The genie was already out of the bottle before anyone caught on. The idea that we could have stopped community spread is not true. You have to know about something to stop it.
It was circulating in Italy as early as September 2019 and there is lots of travel between Italy and the US. Source: Reuters, link below.
https://www.reuters.com/article/heal...-idUSKBN27W1J2
"The low rate of lethality" is one reason it was not identified earlier according to the article.
Developing natural herd immunity among healthy people while protecting the vulnerable is not an unreasonable approach for a low lethality virus.
The problem is our vulnerable are not protected. Here is an article on how dirty nursing homes are:
https://www.pedagogyeducation.com/Ma...s.aspx?news=78
Cherry-picking. Be healed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
At best herd immunity was a bet that we wouldn't have a vaccine first, a bet they lost, we do have a vaccine available and will have one even widely available first. And it is PLENTY irrational to assume there is a way to protect the vulnerable when no such way exists. I kind of suspect the type of countries capable of protecting the vulnerable, if such is even possible, probably have perfectly overlap with the countries able to crush covid and thus not needing to. Any counter examples where they had tons of covid and protected the vulnerable? Low rate of fatality in a large enough of population still means a lot of unnecessary death including of those at low risk (under 50 and no preexistings) who still sometimes die of it.
Trump had to go. He had to go. You can't kill your own people and get away with it (and have them lap it up). It's as bad as a precedent gets. Talk about lambs to the slaughter. He had to go. Biden may interpret it as a mandate for whatever ridiculous spectacle we are presented with now (choosing a cabinet by identity as if that was the most important thing - oh it's so silly) But he was the ventriloquists dummy the desire to oust Trump spoke through and spoke enough to be done with him.
Most people I know have one mask or neck gaiter they've been wearing for the entire pandemic. Oh snap!
I cannot get the link to copy but a story in today's New York Post reports many masks worn today are worse than no mask at all. Wearing a mask slows down airflow and increases the chance infectious particles lodge in the nose, to summarize. This especially happens with reused pleated masks.
In the highly scientific realm of "most of the people I know", it's been a long time since I've seen anyone wearing a gaiter. I have noticed that some people in retail wear flimsy masks that fit loosely, I suppose for comfort more than efficiency. I have a handful of masks. My favorite is the Under Armor. It's a heavier material and is tailored to match nose and chin contours and comes in sizes for a good fit. I see a lot sports figures on tv wearing them with the iconic Under Armor logo. I wear it while cycling and it actually feels good in the cool weather and doesn't fog glasses as long as you are moving and there is air flow around the glasses. Since the second (or is it third) surge most of the trail walkers and cyclists wear a mask of some sort even though they are outdoors. Second favorite are the Adidas mask that come three to a pack. A little lighter material, comfortable and also good for exercise. I have an older mask purchased at the start of things that has a plasticky feeling inner lining that tends to lie flat against the nose and mouth. Not good.
A late night talk show I sometimes hear a bit of before falling asleep promotes a mask with a small battery and fan to keep a fresh flow of air to the face. Seems like a gimmick, but they are out there.
"Low rate of lethality?" We've lost over 300,000* souls in nine months--the mortality rate among those infected is around 3%--not to mention the morbidity rate. Herd mentality through infection is a dumb, dangerous idea.
*This compares to pre-vaccination era measles deaths of around 450 per year in the U.S.
Everyone I know has about 10 masks so always have one clean.
95% is a good example of a high lethality virus. A more modern example is ebola which according to the World Health Organization has a 50% lethality rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
Covid definitely falls in the low lethality rate category. (Not no lethality, but low lethality.)
Or at least a box or two of the disposable ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
Of course prior to 1963 when the vaccine came out the population was lower, but I think the major difference is air travel was expensive and rare. Now we have a society where shutting the airports down to passenger travel is unthinkable even in a pandemic. The government would only advise people to stay put, but not stop them from flying all around the country to multi household Thanksgiving gatherings. There's definitely something to be said for isolationism, not only in terms of public health but the environment given the carbon impact of leisure travel, especially by plane. But don't say that in these forums where long distance travel is a sacred right, even for people dumping their student loan debts on the taxpayers.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
Climate change also may contribute to the spread of pandemics. Of course maybe vaccines are developed very quickly in the future as well. At least that might happen. Most effects of climate change have NO such techno-solutions. The airlines are going to get another bailout, call it a subsidy to the fossil fuel industry though it's probably not counted as such by those who calculate such things. It should be.
I don't think travel is so much about these forums but something the well-off middle class does. The job where coworkers did it the most was the job I was paid the most. Life is somewhat more modest now, but yes some still travel, it's a well off middle class thing to do afterall! I find the middle class rather strange, but I know in American society you Don't Want to be poor, you Really don't, poor areas have 4 times more covid here compared to well off areas - it is in so many ways a bit of a death sentence to be poor, unless you can live in a cave or off the grid that's the only way it might kind of work maybe.
I visit the ocean and I am renewed and don't even need a passport or a plane. To be in such an awesome presence of the waves and the life washing ashore, I don't even want to contribute to the death of the world anymore.
The obsession with student loans, and whether a few people aren't paying them, is just as bizarre as the obsession with masks. I don't favor broad student loan forgiveness, I just don't care THAT much though.
There were many years that our family of 5 couldn’t afford to fly. We drove or took the train. I wasn’t jealous or judgmental about people that could. Now there’s only 2 of us and we can fly to travel. I would like to take a few more trips before I get to old.
The problem with the whole open everything up and lets get to herd immunity idea is that it ignores that only about 5% of the US population has been infected so far. If it took 10 months to get this far with all the social distancing and masks and stuff shut down, it would take another 190 months for everyone to get it if we continue to follow the public health recommendations. And if we open everything up and try to get to herd immunity by encouraging everyone to put themselves at risk of the illness then we will overwhelm our healthcare systems. In many places they are already at the edge of being overwhelmed. Once they get overwhelmed then the death rate will go through the roof. A lot of non-elderly people who get covid still need hospital care, but then survive (Chris Christie for example). If our hospitals can't provide that care people who needed but couldn't get hospital care will die needlessly. And to do so at this point just as one, probably at least two, very effective vaccines are being rolled out large scale is just idiotic.
At this point I almost think we should "open it all up", let evolution takes its course and rebuild civilization from the ashes.
With some luck the herd's overall fitness would be improved by such a challenge....
Thankfully, I have lived my life and done the things I really wanted to do before now. There are still things I would like to do but if I die.... I have had a good life. We've decided if things are not opened up by next summer, we will do more. Our time is running out.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
The thing is it only does so much for evolution as most of the people if affects are past having kids. Hope the next pandemic kills those in their prime and spares the seniors maybe? If so, well we can't stop our whole society just for some young folks who could just isolate for a couple years.
Oh that's OK. Once the water and sewer and power and food infrastructure fall apart as all the "old folks" who know how to operate them move on, well....Quote:
Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore
I think everyone will get to share in the fun.
I am enjoying my life in Covid times, tho. It is downshifting, but not shifting to bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
, I’d like a couple more European trips but if that doesn’t happen for a couple of years, that’s OK.
We will get through this and hopefully be wiser as a civilization. Living simply and supporting each other is about all that each one can do. I refuse to be melodramatic, confrontational, angry as it is a waste of my energy and helps no one. I believe that we all have better things to do than that although some do seem to feel differently.
As in the summer I can make the same observation - that despite all its restrictions California is in the worst shape of any state.
You would think officials would have learned their approach is wrong, but no. They should be trying new things like shutting down passenger air travel but they can't admit they're wrong. I saw on the news over 80 million Americans are planning to travel for Christmas. A bunch will probably go to or from California. They shut down a sports stadium with no fans but won't touch airports.
My students’ grandparents are dying.
do the whole world a favor. Before you leave the house, ask yourself, do I have a choice? (You almost always have a choice) if the answer is yes, ask yourself if you’re willing to risk the life of a random stranger for what you are about to do.
if you can’t look into the eyes of a seven year old showing you the “one last present” from the grandmother he has spent every Christmas with - stay home.
and btw - I’m teaching online. My school is online. Except for fencing - which is being held in the parking lot in snow.
CL, that’s heartbreaking. We have been going nowhere for the past two months and intend to keep it that way. I really don’t understand all the traveling and gatherings now that the entire country is doing horribly. Plus with the vaccines here there’s hope on the horizon.
Merry Christmas kids! Now take the covids back to your grandparents next week for Christmas dinner! It’ll be the best and last Christmas present you will ever give them. Ho ho ho!
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-kids-n1251236
I agree and hope that when I look back on this time, I'm able to honestly see that I was helpful, kind, compassionate, caring, etc. instead of selfish, angry, uncaring, whiny, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by razz
Today I was thinking about the odd attitude of what I call “soldiering on in a pandemic. “
I’ve had four sources now insist, four of them, that we must carry on with life! Because we must carry-on! Because we must! OK now I have to give you the context for these conversations: flower shows and plant conferences.
My God, we’re not speaking about turning out equipment for the war effort. We’re talking about holding flower shows. Holding meetings about flower shows. Holding conferences about growing flowers.
95% of the population in these groups are over the age of 65, the fragile population. I just read today a death notice of one of our flower show judges, age 93, died from Covid.
This makes me crazy. One of those voices loudly proclaimed in an ( unnecessary) article in plant Society journal that Covid19 is serious folks! Well, doh. I don’t need to read about Covid in our plant society journal, I know about Covid. But that same voice is postulating that in our bus tour of gardens we will have to have double the number of buses so that we can have social distancing. Me, I think oh hell no, how about no buses? How about no conference? I won’t be attending any of it.
This is not to say that real debate about essential services and essential commerce like restaurants operating is useful. I think there are valid points for keeping those establishments open and functional.
I’m talking about nonessential things like Flower Shows.The perspective of some of my fellow flower people is way out of whack.
Totally agree IL. It’s bizarre.