Iris lilies, how are things in your hood?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

Here's something interesting. It turns out that CNN is reporting that two white witnesses who say they were fifty feet away from the shooting - construction contractors working in the area - claim that Michael Brown DID have his hands in the air when he was fatally shot and according to them, Michael Brown was shot dead when he presented no threat. OUCH! I don't read the future and I don't know how this is going to play out but at the moment I'm thinking somebody better get a printing press ready for the lawsuit settlements, and I hope nobody settles for the first offer if Ferguson tries settling out of court.....If anyone is interested google two new Ferugson witnesses. Rob

---

"Hands up" doesn't mean "no threat." If a 300 lb giant is charging me, regardless of where his hands are, I would feel threatened. And then if he's already tussled with me, maybe going after my gun, and maybe breaking a bone in my face, I'm going to consider him a thread. That's why there is all the speculation about the shot that killed him and the angle of that shot in his head.

This case will likely turn on the few seconds that Mike Brown turned around and faced the officer and what happened next: moving forward, not moving forward, threatening. That's why there is all the speculation about the angle of the shot in his head that killed him.

We saw Mike Brown threaten a man 1/3 of his size just a few minutes before he was shot. Brown used his giant bulk to threatened and intimidate that guy, it was his MO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iris lilies

"Hands up" doesn't mean "no threat." If a 300 lb giant is charging me, regardless of where his hands are, I would feel threatened.

---

Many of the classic disarm moves we teach begin with the hands-up position, and rely on the reactionary gap.

I am only ~270 pounds right now, and a good half century old, but I would be happy to demonstrate when Rob comes out to the Seattle Police training facility. I will bet you that if he waits for me to move towards him, I will win 4 of 5 trials easily without breaking a sweat, from any distance of 21 feet or under.

Guilty by virtue of being fat (or big as the case may be - I don't know his bodyfat or anything), that's a new one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore

Guilty by virtue of being fat (or big as the case may be - I don't know his bodyfat or anything), that's a new one.

---

Well, ya know APN, it was his capital in the world of thugs and he used it.

I find it interesting that Bae has posted of reasonable doubt before, earlier in this thread when the OJ trial was discussed. Now I will admit here and I now I don't have the knowledge Bae seems to have of weaponry and the law and such. Probably due to my lack of knowledge I'd be a wanted juror by both the prosecution and the defense EXCEPT for how I feel about the courts and the police. But the lack of knowledge means that I could possibly be swayed by evidence on either side if I didn't have this baked in fear of the police and the courts.

My point here is this - these new witnesses - what they have to say about how the shooting of Michael Brown took place, and furthermore, the fact that they are white and siding against the police - quite damning. Up there with Marcia Clarke and her famous 99.9999999 (I forget how many nines there were) comment. I'd hazard to guess this alone may be enough for an indictment though I don't know what manipulative actions will take place in court during a trial and Darren Wilson does have a sizable pot of money for legal expenses to draw from. I do think however this is going to get interesting and thanks to social media, as I have stated many times earlier, the eyes of the world are on us and I'm so glad for that! Rob

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

My point here is this - these new witnesses - what they have to say about how the shooting of Michael Brown took place, and furthermore, the fact that they are white and siding against the police - quite damning.

---

Your conclusions are faulty. Provide a web link to the "police side" that denies Michael Brown had his hands up at any time. You won't be able to find one.

Most speculators assume various witnesses who saw Brown's hands in the air are telling what they saw and his hands were in the air at some point, it's old news. I think that his hands were up at some point and I am white. The symbol of Mike Brown is "Hands up."

I'm surprised that you haven't brought up the fact that Brown's sidekick said Brown was shot in the back and that hasn't been officially disputed. Why don't you work the internet on that one?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iris lilies

Your conclusions are faulty. Provide a web link to the "police side" that denies Michael Brown had his hands up at any time. You won't be able to find one.

Most speculators assume various witnesses who saw Brown's hands in the air are telling what they saw and his hands were in the air at some point, it's old news. I think that his hands were up at some point and I am white. The symbol of Mike Brown is "Hands up."

I'm surprised that you haven't brought up the fact that Brown's sidekick said Brown was shot in the back and that hasn't been officially disputed. Why don't you work the internet on that one?

---

Whether or not my thinking is faulty to me is completely besides the point. I am talking of perception and how the impact of what these new witnesses have to say is being perceived. As I've stated before, from all the years I have worked in restaurants, I very quickly learned that fact and reality were completely irrelevant in customer service and if I wanted to maintain employment I had to operate in the world of perception and how guests perceived issues - whether or not they were right was completely besides the point. Here we have a legal situation and due to prior issues of US police brutality, I've got news for you - this is all going to boil down to perception for many people. Irregardless of facts - and you can thank former acts of police brutality and intense income equalities in the US for that.

Pretty much for many people the law here? Given that there are those (such as myself) that have no faith or trust in the law in such situations, the law here doesn't really mean all that much. It all boils down to perception and the appearance of heavy handedness and excessive force - AND HELLO? The behavior of the police after the shooting death really showed the Ferguson police as they truly are - which certainly is not helping them. I understand that the DOJ has indeed gone after local police departments aggressively - I'm hoping for a complete and total revamp of the Ferguson PD - the residents of Ferguson are worth this in my book, and after what they have been through, how could anything less suffice? Purely from a standpoint of basic human rights - how could anything less suffice, and/or be trusted going forward? Once again, perceptions and appearances - due to the fact of utter distrust of the law, the law doesn't mean much here. That's probably a hard one for some posters here to wrap their heads around - but once you've lived in the lower social classes in the US and understand how the laws and the courts and the police work against you and not for you - the law doesn't mean much as you learn distrust of it - and what does mean something is appearances and perceptions. Various posters here can go on and on and on about the law but it will not change the basic truth of what I have posted above. Consider it yet another social class difference. And this one money won't fix as this one has been baked in reality for years and years. Throwing money at this one won't fix it I'm afraid. Rob

Rob, are you implying that any convictions or settlements associated with this case should be based on perceptions rather than established law?

I do have one positive thing to say about the police, though - this gem coming from Albuquerque, a city in which disadvantaged residents have recently suffered shooting deaths due to police brutality. Turns out that in yesterday's USA Today there was in article regarding the Albuquerque police in which the chief of police of Albuquerque actually admitted that there were some officers in uniform in the Albuquerque PD that had no business being in uniform. I was speechless - such common sense and honesty coming from a police chief! I wonder what took place to yield that common sense - what's going on behind the scenes to force such reality out onto the table? Regardless, the statement was made. Maybe what we need is a nationwide audit of each and every officer - does this individual represent a threat to basic human rights or are they a decent officer worthy of a pension? (and I do believe there are some decent ones worthy of a pension and that this is hard work). But some need to go yesterday. Rob

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan

Rob, are you implying that any convictions or settlements associated with this case should be based on perceptions rather than established law?

---

I'm saying that due to perceptions, if the letter of the law is followed and a certain segment of the population is unhappy with how they perceive the outcome, there will be hell to pay. Once again, appearance and perception, with laws that have worked against people and not for them for far too many years not really meaning much. I can see where for some posters here this is not a pleasant thought, but that's the reality of lower income perception. Living in such an area I can really vouch for the truth of what I have just posted. Rob

Came back to add - something else to factor in, too - we are talking here of a (growing, due to automation and offshoring of jobs and corporate greed) segment of the population that really does not have much to loose and does not really have any stake in a community or in life in general. Under such conditions, appearance and perception matter much more than the concept of law, which is distrusted and feared anyway. For such people, the only use the law is good for is the upcoming lawsuit settlements - other than that, there really is no use for the law due to appearances and perception, in this case, baked in for many years.