Do emergencies justify taking away people's rights? Roosevelt thought so when he interned Japanese Americans. But he was wrong. Panic fueled responses are usually wrong.
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Do emergencies justify taking away people's rights? Roosevelt thought so when he interned Japanese Americans. But he was wrong. Panic fueled responses are usually wrong.
Depends on whether one believes they have the right to infect others with a potentially deadly disease.
I saw the conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter, but totally missed any such a thing in any news source I follow. Maybe it's in the twitters and tweets that I don't follow or I need an eye exam.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
The rights of the many can supersede the rights of a individual.
I've seen no gloating over Letlow's death, but early articles reported his wife didn't want him to go to the White House event.
Yay freedumb is the president hosting a non-socially distanced, non-masked super spreader event at his resort (or is it his home?) on the same day that Florida had the highest number of cases reported so far.
No response so I think I am.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Some researchers have suggested resorative sleep and/or melatonin as a preventative/treatment for COVID-19.
https://nypost.com/2020/12/29/scient...cCotZGFHZPbD_g
No, you are not on my ignore list. I just didn’t see it. No one is on my ignore list on this forum. That is not true for other forums ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
I think ANM is kinda/sorta right in that the infection rate is going to go around at a similar level at some point. It is CA’s
“ turn “more or less. I thought that when the coasts were heavily infected and we are in the Midwest where not, then it would get to us eventually. And it did.We went for a month in Gasconade County, the county of our Herman house, with very few cases and no deaths.And it hit the nursing home in Herman and took out a couple dozen people. Tragic.
Both McConnell and Pelosi's homes have now been vandalized by people upset over the covid response. While this is not the tactic I would employ they have the right target, as opposed to those who hassle front line hotel or store workers tasked with asking people to wear a mask.
I am very happy to see the UK is giving everyone one dose of vaccine before they give second doses. This is utilitarianism at its best.
Yppej, I totally agree with you.
Some poor Dollar Store employee (IIRC) was shot to death trying to prevent a customer from entering without a mask.
I wonder on a daily basis what is wrong with people.
they just took the "freedom is the right to kill other people" (by spreading virus) one step further, eliminating the middle man as it were.Quote:
Some poor Dollar Store (IIRC) was shot to death trying to prevent a customer from entering without a mask.
I wonder on a daily basis what is wrong with people.
We got a call from our son in Sacramento the other day and both he and his wife have Covid. She had been in the hospital for three days on oxygen over Christmas but they waited to tell us. He was still struggling. They are both in their 30's, in shape with no preconditions. Both work from home and get most things delivered. Scary..............
So sorry to hear this, Simplemind. I hope they both are OK.
Every time I hear the ignorant "It's just the flu" I want to scream. It's scary because it's so unpredictable, and very unlike any flu I've ever heard of.
I'm glad your DIL is out of the hospital, and I hope they both continue to improve, Simplemind.
SM, that’s scary and I hope they both recover quickly.
My mother's two neighbors, both in their late '70s, just tested positive, and frankly aren't doing all that well.
They have happily ignored our travel restrictions, our social gathering restrictions, and our mask requirements for the duration of the pandemic, including proudly travelling all over the place. They came back from their Christmas trip to a covid hotspot, where they engaged in large-scale family festivities.
So sometime soon I'll have to put on the hazmat suit to go transfer them to a higher level of care, or to the cemetary.
Today I was remembering how when I complained about masks (which I wear as required by law) some here said if I got sick with covid I should be left to die. I wonder if they are advocating that now for all the people who travelled over the holidays or went to multi household gatherings. It would free up some hospital beds.
To be fair, I believe any such comments were prompted by your statements that you were going to poke holes in your mask, and another time that you were going to wear a sneezed-in mask inside out so as to share your germs. I don't think anyone here genuinely wishes you ill or dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Actually the nasty comments predated either of the posts you mentioned. It was part of a cultlike groupthink that anyone who questions masks is evil. Well now we have people wearing masks on airplanes spreading highly virulent strains of covid from South Africa to the UK to Canada to the US to the rest of the world. Turns out those masks aren't that efficacious.Quote:
Originally Posted by rosarugosa
Apparently, that South African mutation is troubling--its virus spikes have changed, leading to questions about whether current vaccines will be effective against it.
Do you believe us mask wearing sheep think masks are 100% effective? I can’t speak for other sheep, but I know masks are not 100% effective, they are one tool in the arsenal of limiting Covid virus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
as for airplanes – I haven’t figured out if they are fairly safe or not. I keep reading about people who think the increased air circulation on airplanes plus masking and face shielding it’s pretty effective. I can’t see how gathering together in airports with hundreds of people is that all safe, to me that seems like a super spreader event.
Personally, I think you have reached the point of "trolling" for an argument. However, I continue to wish you health and happiness, regardless of your own cult-like group think against mask wearing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Yppej, for what it is worth, I too believe you were bullied here and were the target of the kind of remarks that you stated, quite early on.
I know that is an unpopular opinion, but it really saddened me what was said to you here and how you were treated. I also think that there will be no change in how you are treated, so if you do not like it, I would suggest not posting about masks, because it seems to enrage people, who then wish you ill health.
I would pick a different forum if you do not wish to receive abuse in response.
Again, the remarks to you here had a lot with why I don't want to participate on this thread, and that's all I am going to say. I will probably receive my own abuse for saying that about your comments.
Frankly, I don't much care what people think of masks, as long as they wear them properly and wherever appropriate. It's the maskless "freedom fighters" bleating about conspiracies while nonchalantly spreading the virus that make me angry.
It was less the anti-masking that annoyed me as the open up stuff, I saw it a direct threat to peoples lives. Maybe my own and my loved ones. But that matters less than politeness or something, whatever. Hold my will to live against me and you can kindly go, oh the politeness police are out, can kindly go ... jump in a lake.
It really horrified me we had insane lunatics protest public health orders, was beyond what I thought possible for the people of this country, but I way underestimate the power and numbers and level of insanity of the lunatic right wing fringe obviously.
Now at that point I still think we could have adopted a real strategy to CRUSH not just flatten the virus. That's what I wanted. And provide people with whatever economic help is needed to accomplish it and open up again afterwards. But like most western countries we didn't. Why is a question for the history books. Nor was economic help provided to accomplish it. Which incidentally was the answer: provide help, crush the virus. But it didn't happen. Maybe what is scientifically possible (and it is, the countries that did it are proof) is not politically and socially possible (yea maybe even with or without orange moron, but of course orange moron made everything 1000 times worse). My respect for Eastern culture and society just increases over time btw.
On masks: saying it's people who question masks is of course a strawman. Questioning is one thing, I go on what the best consensus of what we know about how this virus spreads at the time is, realizing science evolves. That was and still is: that masks reduce spread. The poking holes in a mask and wearing a mask with snot inside outstuff was just a bunch of nasty trolling.
As for airplanes, I hear they may not be that dangerous for covid either, but the gatherings that follow can be, I mean not that many people fly just to fly without seeing other human beings after etc..
Well, after 291 pages and over 350,000 deaths, we've established that Yppej is the victim....
Hong Kong has been studying whether flying is a high risk activity. From the beginning they have been testing everyone who arrives, making them quarantine 14 days, and then testing them a second time so they have good data on who was infected before they got on the plane vs. who got infected while on the plane. Since some airlines, particularly Emirates airline, is ADAMANT about everyone wearing a mask the whole time they are on board, the Hong Kong authorities have been able to compare whether diligent mask wearing on a plane works to prevent spread. Short answer, yes. But only if everyone on the plane keeps their mask on for the duration. Longer answer, based on what I've read about mask wearing on US planes I won't be getting on one until after I've been vaccinated.
Freedman looked at all Emirates flights from Dubai to Hong Kong between June 16 and July 5. What he found is quite telling. During those three weeks, Emirates had five flights with seven or more infected passengers on each flight, for a total of 58 coronavirus-positive passengers flying on eight-hour trips. And yet, nobody else on the planes — none of the other 1,500 to 2,000 passengers — picked up the virus, Freedman and his colleague report in the Journal of Travel Medicine.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...-plane-flights
The new variant, known in the USA as B.1.1.7, has been detected in CO, CA, FL, and NY. It is highly likely to be spreading in other states without having been detected. The severity of the infection and the mortality rate is not measurably worse than earlier COVID-19 infections, but this mutant appears to be more transmissible. According to an article in the NY Times, some virologists have estimated B.1.1.7 to be 20% more transmissible... or 50%... or 70%... One theory is more of the B.1.1.7 variant accumulates in the nose and is spread on tiny droplets as the carrier exhales.
The NYT article predicted that B.1.1.7 will become the dominant form of COVID-19 virus in the USA by March. I would expect more US hospitals will reach their limits of capacity and ration care.
This variant was first identified in UK. On Monday 1/4/2021 Prime Minister Boris Johnson placed the UK under the highest level lockdown. The government is once again instructing you to stay at home. People in the UK will be allowed to leave their homes for limited reasons such as shopping for essentials, exercise, medical assistance, or to escape domestic abuse.
Places of worship will remain open on the basis that attendees adhere to social distancing.
Schools will be closed to all except the children of key workers and vulnerable children.
Outdoor sports venues will be closed.
The new variant has led to rising cases almost everywhere in the UK. Hospitalization increased 30% compared a one week earlier. UK Chief Medical Officers stated on 1/4/2021 We are not confident that the National Health Service can handle a further sustained rise in cases, and without further action there is a material risk of the NHS in several areas being overwhelmed over the next 21 days
B.1.1.7 was first known in the UK as VUI-2020 12/1 {Variant under Investigation} and later as VOC 2020/12/1 {Variant of Concern}.
Sending Healing Vibes across the Water,
All Through the Night
What about long flights I mean those 8+ Hour flights, where people are eating. Clearly they’re not wearing masks then.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
I can’t imagine why it wouldn’t be a requirement from all airlines to wear the mask all the time During the flight.
And then when they’re milling about in the airline terminals, there’s no one airline in charge to tell them to put on a mask.
It all sounds sketchy to me, but so many people are flying! So many Of our friends and online acquaintances find reasons But it is OK to fly, and I’m talking about pleasure trips.
It’s good there was an actual study about airflight and Covid.
My anecdotal information about flying from people that I know who are still flying is that on US airlines enforcement of masks is hit or miss with people oftentimes following the mask requirements as if they were in a flying restaurant eating a long slow meal. And stories of passengers pulling the mask down off their nose and then pretending to be asleep, forcing the flight attendant to either ‘wake’ them or ignore the violation, etc.
I just checked Emirates web site and they are still serving food. I wonder if they are enforcing some sort of eating time limit.
I agree with you, iris, it seems sketchy and is simply not a risk I’m willing to take. One of our best friends who has probably been the most quarantiney of anyone I know recently started a new job for a company headquartered in AZ. They insisted that he go there for three days of in person planning meetings because apparently in AZ people are still doing that sort of thing. He was beyond livid.
New Zealand with no masks and no business closures but also no travel into the country is a great success.
And a real monthlong lockdown right at the start. Other countries like Australia had to shut things down and wear masks but people took it seriously and they mostly have it under control. Certainly far better than our whiny country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
New Zealand had business closures in the spring, a very strict lockdown, precisely the measures yeppej opposed here with all the support for opening up long before the virus was crushed. And New Zealand again had restrictions in parts of the country in August due to a resurgence. It did not achieve what it did without them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
That it now doesn't have to be very strict. Well yes that's what you get AFTER you have crushed the virus, something that NEVER happened in the U.S.. That's the reward for lockdowns and other virus mitigation measures. We don't get that reward because we didn't do the measures adequately. Not everyone is individually to blame, it's mostly people suffer when they have bad leadership. Pity us. Closing U.S. borders only does so much good when the virus is running rampant.
Yes I am aware New Zealand isn't the U.S.. It's harder to close U.S. borders. And yea New Zealand is a small country under excellent social democratic leadership and it mitigated through lockdown early on.
Neighbors flew today and had a COVID test. If they did not have the results back before they left they had to quarantine for 10 days at the destination. WTH... so the people on the plane are subjected to the possibility of the testing positive. Makes no sense to me.
My son flew on a connecting flight to Nashville in November. When he booked the flight, there was a blacked out/unavailable seat in the middle, but when he got home he said that every flight was packed--all middle seats were filled in.
I don't understand how a plane with 200 passengers sitting elbow-to-elbow over the course of a couple of hours or more is not considered to be a COVID incubator.
DS quarantined for 14 days and had a test and was negative, but me, the enthusiastic business traveler & million-miler, would never fly these days.
First of all, any negative covid test has a 20% chance of being a false negative.
Additionally, one could turn positive a day or two later if the test were repeated, as they could already have been infected at the time of the first test. That’s called the incubation period.
The only way to trust a negative covid test is to quarantine for 1-2 weeks after the test, before acting as though one does not have the virus.
It’s like taking a pregnancy test the day after sex. The sperm might fertilize the egg that first day, but the test won’t show the pregnancy for another few weeks.
I wish people understood this.
To sum it up - I’m not flying for any reason. It’s like playing Russian roulette.