Iris lilies, how are things in your hood?

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Originally Posted by jp1

I often disagree with Alan and bae on various topics, but about 20 pages ago I posted an explanation of why Darren Wilson isn't on "paid vacation" that Alan just reiterated.

I'll repeat myself. Darren Wilson's job requires that he carry a gun and potentially use it. Let me reiterate. HE CARRIES A GUN AND IS EXPECTED TO USE IT AS PART OF HIS JOB IF THAT'S THE ONLY WAY HE CAN PROTECT HIMSELF OR CIVILIANS THAT ARE AT RISK.

In the event that he uses it there is a protocol for reviewing the situation to determine whether the use of it was necessary. If it was his life goes on. If not he faces the justice system. Until it's determined that he used the gun wrongly there's no logical reason for him to not continue to earn his salary. WIthout that safety net in place only the absolutely most desperate of people would be willing to become cops. After all, who would want to become a cop if they were to risk becoming unemployed and homeless any time they used their gun, regardless of whether it was warranted. That's why he's on paid leave. Until the investigation determines what happened there's no other logical thing to do with him.

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+1

Good post, jp1.

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Originally Posted by Alan

Rob the problem is, you're doing away with the entire concept of "innocent until proven guilty". You're relying on perceptions and misconceptions fueled by social media and incorrect assumptions about how the law works. You're not living within a third world justice system, your fostering it.

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I think I am going to take a break from this thread for awhile after I post this but I do want to respond to what Alan has posted here. Something I guess I have neglected to make clear is that since I witnessed my Guatemalan neighbors being thrown down and assaulted viciously by the Phoenix police for no other reason than for flying a Guatemalan flag on their property - from this point forward - all police to me are automatically guilty until proven innocent, no exceptions. I'm sorry that other posters here have not witnessed the basic lack of human rights in America that I have and the arrogance and above the law mentality of the police that I have - it's really sad, as if more people had, there would possibly be more understanding of where I am coming from. Whatever. In my book everyone gets to believe as they wish regardless. For me, police will ALWAYS be guilty until proven innocent and the courts are mostly only good for retaliatory lawsuits - this is what America has taught me and I don't do denial about basic lower income life lessons. Should I be successful in creating an online small business, should I raise myself up and be able to afford to move on from where I live - this would change nothing. The basic knowledge and fear of how the police and courts work against me and not for me as a lower income individual will never leave me - perhaps someday I can forgive (though I rather doubt it) but I will never forget this life lesson. And with that I am ducking out of this thread for awhile. It seems there is not a lot going on in Ferguson at the moment anyway and it will be until October until we hear if there is an indictment or not - and the lawsuits against the police department will take more time to progress so there probably won't be much thread relevant info to discuss for awhile anyway. I trust I've made my points clear even if the majority here don't understand my points.....time to take a break for a bit. Rob

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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

I think I am going to take a break from this thread for awhile after I post this but I do want to respond to what Alan has posted here. Something I guess I have neglected to make clear is that since I witnessed my Guatemalan neighbors being thrown down and assaulted viciously by the Phoenix police for no other reason than for flying a Guatemalan flag on their property - from this point forward - all police to me are automatically guilty until proven innocent, no exceptions. I'm sorry that other posters here have not witnessed the basic lack of human rights in America that I have and the arrogance and above the law mentality of the police that I have - it's really sad, as if more people had, there would possibly be more understanding of where I am coming from. Whatever. In my book everyone gets to believe as they wish regardless. For me, police will ALWAYS be guilty until proven innocent and the courts are mostly only good for retaliatory lawsuits - this is what America has taught me and I don't do denial about basic lower income life lessons. Should I be successful in creating an online small business, should I raise myself up and be able to afford to move on from where I live - this would change nothing. The basic knowledge and fear of how the police and courts work against me and not for me as a lower income individual will never leave me - perhaps someday I can forgive (though I rather doubt it) but I will never forget this life lesson. And with that I am ducking out of this thread for awhile. It seems there is not a lot going on in Ferguson at the moment anyway and it will be until October until we hear if there is an indictment or not - and the lawsuits against the police department will take more time to progress so there probably won't be much thread relevant info to discuss for awhile anyway. I trust I've made my points clear even if the majority here don't understand my points.....time to take a break for a bit. Rob

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And I'll quickly respond to something Flowerseverywhere said - no, I wouldn't call the police. I can't see any reason I'd ever call the police unless I needed their paperwork to file an insurance claim. I have too much terror of the police to ever voluntarily ask them to enter my life for any kind of interaction. I've posted this before - best to have nothing at all to do with them PERIOD. I don't even care to have a positive interaction with them. I'm sure there are some good ones left but the ones that are essentially government thugs above the law and with pension, too - they can really mess up an innocent person's life and you can't know what type of officer you are going to get if you voluntarily allow the police to enter your life. Best to avoid them as much as possible and give them no chances. If Ferguson doesn't teach you this, google what has been going on in Albuquerque to learn basic terror of American police if you have an open mind to learning some home truths of American police and what they are capable of. Rob

Rob's community continues to meet expectations.


http://www.examiner.com/article/new-...-dead-or-alive

Fascinating article bae.

Gimme, what would you do if a group of young men were gang raping a young girl. Or an elderly man was being assaulted? Or a store owner was being beaten and robbed? All things that happen all around the world.

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Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere

Fascinating article bae.

Gimme, what would you do if a group of young men were gang raping a young girl. Or an elderly man was being assaulted? Or a store owner was being beaten and robbed? All things that happen all around the world.

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Flowerseverywhere, you bring up an interesting point and yet another reason I have find living in the United States so difficult. Yes these things do happen in my world and I would be at a loss as to how to handle them to be quite honest with you. As I have posted numerous times and no one seems to want to process or deal with, I have witnessed my next door neighbors being brutally and viciously assaulted by the Phoenix police for doing nothing other than flying a Guatemalan flag on their property (though they were able to retaliate via the courts for a nice settlement, I will give you that). After having seen that I will never be able to trust American police again, no exceptions.

Put yourself in my shoes - please have that respect and put yourself in my shoes. Being lower income and having witnessed such, would you be running to the phone to call the police or would you think a good twenty to fifty times before taking the risk of voluntarily being vulnerable to a similar situation? The nightmare in America is that if you are lower income, you don't know what will happen when the cops arrive. So you just don't call as it is too much risk. And yes, this is going on all around America, and yes, America is that awful for some of it's citizens. Please rest assured this type of thinking/living is not at all limited to just myself. I'd be grateful for this, too - this type of thinking coupled with social media after Ferguson is hope for change in America's police going forward - perhaps. If not change, at least awareness and fear of the police spreading upwards in America. And I do believe more people going forward will retaliate - as they very well should - with more media attention being paid going forward - against the police in the courts nationwide for large settlements. This can only be a good thing and with the economy so horrible, successful settlements will only prompt more people to sue the police for their misconduct going forward. This can only be a good thing. Rob

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Originally Posted by bae

Rob's community continues to meet expectations.


http://www.examiner.com/article/new-...-dead-or-alive

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Bae, I read your article and yes I do find this excessive. Now.....will you have the same respect for me and google yourself up an article of the recent widespread police brutality in Albuquerque, NM, which is so bad and so well known now that the Albuquerque Police Chief has admitted to the media that some Albuquerque police officers should not be in uniform? Will you have this respect, can this be a two way street, or no? Your choice. Rob

There's too many stories of police brutality for it to all be made up (of course they often don't keep much in the way of actual data), and I don't dismiss them just because they come from or happen to minorities and other disadvantaged people. The point of comparison is rates of death by police in other countries (though the lack of data won't help with that), there are too many here. In any given situation I'd weigh the risk of police causing harm versus the risk of not calling the police causing harm. With assault or something the risk of not calling is likely greater. However many people call police in mere cases of a family member acting funny (drug use/mental illness) and there the balance may tilt the other way (greater risk of harm from getting the police involved).

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Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore

There's too many stories of police brutality for it to all be made up (of course they often don't keep much in the way of actual data), and I don't dismiss them just because they come from or happen to minorities and other disadvantaged people. The point of comparison is rates of death by police in other countries (though the lack of data won't help with that), there are too many here. In any given situation I'd weigh the risk of police causing harm versus the risk of not calling the police causing harm. With assault or something the risk of not calling is likely greater. However many people call police in mere cases of a family member acting funny (drug use/mental illness) and there the balance may tilt the other way (greater risk of harm from getting the police involved).

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Thank You, APN, for understanding this.....this gives me some hope. Rob