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+1. And if we were a rational electorate it would make sense to ask WHY so many people are buying? Unfortunately that gets back to the same old problem of having to actually fix things rather than simply treating the symptoms. I would tweak your statement to say that Trump is probably the world's best bandaid salesman. So good, in fact, that he can sell us bandaids when we really need a tourniquet and a couple of sessions of chemo.Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
Late term abortion is inconceivable!
Although I am a pro-lifer myself I cannot take the right away for other women to decide. These decisions are deeply personal and to do with your conscience. I was in a situation where I began thinking of the possibility due to my medical situation during pregnancy taking a turn for the worse but I am glad I didnt since I am so happy with my baby, and everything turned out just fine. Yea Hillary is a woman but dont empower nor encourage abortion to be like a facelift because you can. I cannot judge but this is another life we are talking about here. Late term abortion is inconceivable.
No. It's a distinct possibility, even if you are "pro-life". There are cases where either the baby or the mother is going to survive the end of pregnancy, but not both of them. And sometimes neither of them, without some intervention. (*)Quote:
Originally Posted by sylvia
Who gets to pick who lives and who dies?
(*) I've been trained in a form of delivery that may save the baby, but that will almost certainly, considering the circumstances, kill the mother, if she's not in fact already dead. It's a tricky thing to decide to do...
Absolutely! To equate these women's positions on the fact that a 'late term' abortion should be left up to the doctor and the mother to infanticide is deplorable, arrogant, and the height of ignorance.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
I know Alan knows better, and if he maintains he doesn't, then i have no respect for him or anyone who follows this disingenuous path for political/ideological reasons.
Women DON'T carry a baby for 7/8 months then just out of the blue decide they don't want a kid and get an abortion. This does NOT happen. A late term abortion is usually a dire situation, as bae pointed out, or a final agonizing decision for the family who must come to terms of the need for the termination of the pregnancy. This is a horrible situation for any family to be caught in and for some (on the right) to take advantage of this awful, gut wrenching time to shame/vilify these families is despicable.
The complete lack of compassion shown by these ideologues only leaves me wondering how they treat their own daughters and wives. But we know the answer to that. They are more than happy to inject themselves and their twisted morality into other people's lives but demand privacy when it's their own families.
We may not agree politically on a lot of things bae, but you have been consistent in your respect and understanding and compassion for women. The way you speak of, and support your wife and daughter shows that you 'get' it. And now that you are in service to your community, that understanding seems to carry on to your community. I hope you never need to make that decision/choice between a woman and the fetus. I can't imagine having to do that, but I suppose it would be a triage of sorts, deciding who has the better chance of living.
Yes, it is deplorable that anyone standing up for the rights of the unborn are designated as arrogant and ignorant. I realize as much as anyone that words matter and those that imply that an unborn baby is human must be countered. We saw it recently when NARAL condemned a Doritos advertisement for "humanizing" a very late term fetus. We see it in the language everyday people have been forced to use when describing the unborn lest their friends and neighbors think that they too are arrogant and ignorant.Quote:
Originally Posted by peggy
The cool thing is, your side is winning the battle to ensure that a baby is not considered a baby until the mother says it is, regardless of the science. Please remember that the next time you have the urge to condemn anyone ideologically opposed to your beliefs as 'anti-science'. Plus, for those who become enraged and feel un-safe by being forced to read the words 'pro-life' on the internet, there is a new Google app which will automatically replace any written instance of the phrase with 'anti-choice', which will further ensure that the second life in the equation is forgotten. http://www.ijreview.com/2016/02/5425...le-safe-space/ I'm sure it will be popular with many.
Wow Alan, this is so much BS I don't even know where to begin.
What is arrogant and ignorant is your assertion that somehow 'only' you and your crusaders are 'standing up' for the fetus/baby. (and by the way, calling it a fetus is proper, to distinguish it from a born baby.) No one is denying this life, certainly near the end where viability is almost assured outside the womb, EXCEPT IN MOST LATE TERM ABORTION CASES. Yeah, no viability. Either for the fetus or the mother, or as bae pointed out, sometimes both. How cruel to insert ideology and ignorance into these situations.
The arrogance comes in when you pass judgement on families caught up in these horrible situations where a late term abortion is necessary. Trust me Alan, these families know all too well what they are doing and it pains them beyond belief. Ignorance is piling on when you have no knowledge of this.
And it's completely absurd (and a flat out lie) to say Pelosi and Clinton think killing babies is OK.
And don't talk to me about 'pro-life.' When your candidates expand food stamps to make sure no child goes hungry, when they don't promise to take away Obamacare which enables millions to get affordable health care, when they vote to strengthen education instead of weaken it, when they vote to raise the minimum wage, or dozens of other programs that benefit children, actual living breathing children, then they can call themselves 'pro-life'. But in the abortion/birth control debate, they are no-choice. It's pro-choice and no-choice. period. No longer can they own/claim the 'pro-life' label until they actually work for it.
now, as far as abortion goes...no, it isn't a separate human being until it is viable outside the womb and yes, the woman has that call. We do put limits on this, and the vast vast majority of abortions take place before this. After that point, there is usually a very good reason which is between a woman and her doctor. Abortion is legal, and body autonomy is the reason. Let me explain it to you as it was recently explained to me.
First let's establish your rights. I don't have the right to force you to donate a kidney, right? I, or anyone else, can't force you to give blood, or a piece of your liver, or sperm. We can't force you to clip your nails if you don't want to. That is body autonomy, and your right to your own person. Even if it would save a life. Even if you are the only match found to save a life by donating your kidney. No one can force you to do that. No one.
Now let's look at the other end of life...death. Again, body autonomy comes into play here. They (hospitals) cannot harvest your bones or tissue without permission. No heart or eye donations unless permission is given by you(through a living will) or your immediate family. furthermore, if you stipulated that you didn't want any donations of organs or tissue after your death, even your family saying 'Aw, go ahead and take them", won't fly. The hospital simply won't do it.
So, to be perfectly clear on this, you, and your no-choice group, think a fetus should have MORE rights than any living breathing person. And the woman, the pregnant woman, should have LESS rights than a cadaver.
Nope, just that the baby has an equal right to life. Sacrilege I know, but there it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by peggy
But it's not equal life, is it. Or equal rights you advocate. How is it equal rights when one 'life' can enslave, and force donation (of a womb, blood, tissue, time) of the other? How is that equal? Explain it to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Does the kidney patient have an equal right to life just as you do? What if your kidney is the match that would save that life? Should we force you to donate because of the patients equal right? And if all people have an equal right to life, why aren't you for universal health care?
No one can force you to donate any part of your body, even to save a life. You say a fetus should be able to do this = more rights for the fetus than any living breathing person.
No one can take so much as a skin graft from a corpse without permission. You say a woman should be forced to donate life, blood, womb, months to another against her will = less rights for the woman than a cadaver.
I know people like to say, 'Your rights end where mine begins'. If that fetus is viable, capable of independent life, then that is considered. Yes, that is a baby, a person, and we have policies in place to help that life. (unless you are republican and then it's 'You're on your own kid'...ok, I'm being snarky) But those are special cases and are between a woman and her doctor. And yes, they are very rare.
I'm sorry you view women as less deserving of equality. I suppose it's a real problem when it's a girl fetus cause then how do you decide who should be 'sacrificed' for the 'equality' you envision. who should be forced to be the sacrifice. if the woman can be sacrificed for the fetus, it being a girl, should be able to be sacrificed for the mother. When you only allot 3/5ths of 'equality' to a gender, then when one of that gender is only 1/2 viable...well, we would need a politician to do the math, wouldn't we. We would need a man...a gynotician perhaps.
I think it's a personal matter and of conscience. I have been there late term pregnancy with complications. I personally would choose that my baby may live and I die. Thankfully me and my baby made it out ok.But again Im not going to judge those like my friend who against doctors suggestions waited to give birth to a stillborn baby.She chose no abortion but gave birth in dignity to greet her baby with love. Very difficult and personal. My issue is you shouldnt make abortion so casual like you are getting botox done. This is a human life you created. It's not garbage it's a human being.Agruing who is wrong or right you will never win on any side. It's always ultimately the mother's choice.Im just glad my mom decided to keep me.