+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Zigzagman
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+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Zigzagman
Seriously, that's the worst spin I've ever seen. The economy sucks everywhere, There are lots and lots of people lining up everywhere to get school supplies for their children. Lots and lots of people, organizations, churches, communities are giving and giving. I am really outraged over this ridiculous connection to Rick Perry's Response. This is the most stupid thing I have seen in a long time.
If the Prayer Fest was in addition to real concrete action to help those in need, I think most wouldn't mind. But, if this is a substitute for action, then yes, it deserves to be mocked. He was elected governor, not pastor.
The point is that the same people who were inside Reliant Stadium praying are the ones who give of their time and money for a multitude of charities that fund the free school supplies they were giving away down the road. If Perry wanted to pray and take part or even lead the event, that is his prerogative. Sheesh...Nobody blinked when Obama skipped the observance of the national day of prayer. Street runs both ways.
so how do you know this? How do you know these are such wonderfully altruistic, generous people? Correct me if I'm wrong but, they weren't actually helping people and giving away stuff or their time, were they. They were swaying and clapping and wasting an entire day worshipping St. Rick. Just speculation on your part, and not based in real observation at all. It has been my observation these types of people will often substitute prayer for action. Sure, they may pray for the poor hungry homeless man down the street. Meanwhile, someone else gives him a sandwich. Which do you think is going to do him more good?Quote:
Originally Posted by Catwoman
And why should the President publicly observe some phony trumped up 'National day of prayer' (and who exactly invented that one!) This isn't a Theocracy, as it turns out.
And how do you know he didn't pray? Cause Rush told you? How do you know the man doesn't pray every day? I didn't realize you were privy to his private life. Does having Jesus as your BFF give you the inside tract? Pretty arrogant to declare President Obama doesn't pray.
Prayer Fest is not new - the governors of Florida, Oklahoma, Georgia, and yes Gov. Perry from Texas - have previously exhorted citizens to pray for rain. Again, if it's a substitute for action, it deserves to be mocked.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-..._b_919643.html
What individuals do prayer-wise is their own business, but elected officials get judged by the outcome of their policies and actions. That's what we pay them for, and that's what we should expect.
Today in our community a housing organization - Mercy Housing - is having a stuff backpacks with supplies party. If you're in Seattle and want to play, call them! I am sure your community has similar efforts underway. Let's each and all take some action, and perhaps we'll make blathering idiot politicians obsolete.
I know this is true because I am one of these people...
1. I am a Texan, I know of the generosity of spirit and of community in Texas.
2. I am an evangelical Christian, Baptist to be exact and - people of all faiths and denominations are always making efforts to be mission minded...food banks, clothing supply. Last year all the Baptist churches in the area gave filled backpacks full of school supplies away to any child in need. Need did not have to be determined, you had only to ask.
3. I know this because I am a Texas teacher, always have taught in title 1 low income schools. No child has ever gone wanting for school supplies - the very people who would care enough to attend a day of prayer, serious prayer, not this "prayerpalooza" or "prayer fest" (disrespectful and rude IMO) crap...are the ones who volunteer in their churches, communities, Lions club, school volunteers, etc. I have never had an atheist or Wiccan volunteer to help with anything. Christians are called to give and they do. I am SICK, SICK, SICK of the rudeness and disrespect for Christians and it just oozes out of this stupid connection from day of prayer to not giving to those in need. You all must have a lofty perch from which you can sit and sneer down at those you regard as less enlightened and somehow it always comes down to Southerners and Christians. Also, I know a display of anger like this is not becoming to a Christian but this is righteous anger. The "tolerance bully" that the left has hidden behind and poked at evangelical Christians with is running out of steam. When you act and write posts as if you know about this I know you dont, because I live this every day.
Peggy - never said he didn't pray but wondered...He did cancel the national day of prayer
Here ya go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaKeWwE0t7E
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/prayerday.aspQuote:
Originally Posted by Catwoman
Wow, we have a big box at church for school supplies donations. And our tiny congregation (50 or so including all the kids) sends over a 100 boxes to Operation Christmas Child. Plus holds a free to the community dinner once a week. Our church is mostly fixed income retiree's but still are very generous with their money and time.
Prayer is only a part of a Christian's life. Time in prayer often brings inspiration to serve and help others.
Righteous anger!! (..snort!..)Quote:
Originally Posted by Catwoman
1. I am also a Texan, and Texans aren't any more generous or kind or caring than any other state residents, so, your assertion that you KNOW those people were wonderful caring people based on their home residence is kind of silly, don't you think. This is your empirical data? Teacher?
2. And here you go..I'm an atheist and I have volunteered all my life, as have my kids, non religious friends and family. so..that should change your world view.
3. As a teacher, you should hold a healthy bit of skepticism for 'information' you get in a chain e-mail. Further, you should be able to simply check out said 'information' by a simple Internet search, as creaker showed. Again, the teacher in you, who is supposed to possess critical thinking skills, should kick in.
4. Do you and your friends really NEED the President to lead you in prayer? Do you really need a National prayer day? Aren't you supposed to be praying everyday? And what, exactly, is the purpose of a national prayer day? You want to know who the bully is? It's you, and your Christian friends who gleefully use your phony 'National Prayer Day' to bully everyone into praying to your god, take the names of those who don't, then spread lies about them to smear them. Frankly I'm proud of our President for not falling for this phony righteous crap.
OK Peggy, you win the pissin contest...I'll pray for you as you seem filled with hate and rage against Christians
What did Christians ever do to you to make you so filled with contempt?
Has anyone mentioned Matthew 6 yet? I'm often amused at how far public Christianity--at least in this country--has fallen away from the tenets Jesus set forth.
Matthew 6
New International Version (NIV)
Matthew 6
Giving to the Needy
1 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Prayer
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9 “This, then, is how you should pray:
“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,[a]
but deliver us from the evil one.[b]’
14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Fasting
16 “When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 17 But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, 18 so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Treasures in Heaven
19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy,[c] your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eyes are unhealthy,[d] your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.
Do Not Worry
25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[e]?
28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
Cat - I definitely respect your freedom of religion and also would like to thank you for service as a teacher.
I think you are missing the point of the Rick Perry prayer fest. It has little or nothing to do with religion, nothing at all to do with any effort to "help our nation", it is simply a planned political event by a politician and one that I might add is a dispicable human being. As a teacher there is no doubt in my mind that you understand that Perry has no concern whatsoever with education, the poor, or any other thing except promoting his own personal agenda. What he did is wrong and I think would be an embarrassment to the religious community. Aligning himself with a openly anti-gay religious group is just stupid. What kind of people would that attract?
Perry if anything is probably more of a neo-confederate and I think stands for just about everything that is wrong with this country. The religious loonies need to distance themselves from this guy for their own sake.
And just for those people that are not Texans, a 36% victory in a three person race definitely does not represent all Texans. He is the oil and gas government pawn and uses the conservative party to get elected. Remember it was 15 years ago that he was Al Gores Campgain manager in Texas - Perry is for one person Perry. He has never worked for anyone other than government and yet claims to be against government.
Y’all, I’m telling you – he’s Elmer Gantry. He’s a snake oil salesman.
Peace
But Zig, just suppose, just suppose, that he sincerely asked God's blessing and guidance for our nation....suppose he was sincere, in the way that I am supposed to tolerantly suppose that Imams in NYC aren't doing anything wrong by wanting a mosque at Ground Zero...What's wrong with a little two-way tolerance?
I have no doubt that Perry is sincere when he says he is a devout Christian but you do not organize a meeting in Reliant Stadium (football stadium for you Aggies ;) ) as Governor without a political agenda. That is the reason that most of the invited political guests did not RSVP the event. There were cameras. There were people who might buy his book. There was an opportunity to be seen praying the loudest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catwoman
A preacher maybe, a revival maybe (lots of room to pass the plate), but not a politician that is probably going to be running for President.
It is what it is - but don't confuse the backlash as being anti-Christian just anti-phony-Christian.
Peace
JaneV2.0 - appreciate your scriptural references but there are many others that exhort people, leaders of nations and nations to pray i.e., 2nd Chronicles 7:12 - If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face..." The reference to a people here can be regarded as a reference to a nation....There was (and still is) much public and group prayer in the time of Christ...Those references were specific to Pharisees...I can see your point but the flip side - this doesn't happen with regularity; it was (The Response) truly a call to prayer...Muslims arent judged by the call that comes out from the mosque everyday and the ritual prayer that follows...
You know the thing that made me sad in all the discussion as to whether Christians were or were not the ones who did more charitable giving of school supplies for the poor? The fact that it was necessary to do so at all.
When I was growing up and going to public school, we had a supply cabinet in the back of every classroom, that contained reams of paper, pens and pencils, markers, and all the other needed office type supplies for us to do our schoolwork. Our textbooks were supplied, and the supplies we needed were supplied as well by the school system. No one, rich OR poor, needed to go out and buy their own supplies. It was just part of school.
In high school, we would all buy our own three ring binders so we could decorate them as we pleased, but in elementary school, piles and piles of that "school paper" with the double lines lived in every classroom's supply cabinet, as did construction paper, paste, scissors, and everything else we needed. We had big rolls of mural paper back there, and tempera paints, and it was just all part of "school".
When my kids were growing up and going to public schools, it was the same. I guess it's changed since then. Maybe we're like the frogs in the water, in regards to our public schools.....they have deteriorated in so many ways over time, but we just accept it somehow, without question. And now we have the "new normal" of large numbers of kids having to depend on charity for basic school supplies.
Any teacher in the Texas schools who wants Governor Perry as President makes me scratch my head. Triumph of ideology over facts, IMHO.
Well Chickens, I have to swallow hard on that one... to vote for Perry. But my vote goes for ABO - anybody but Obama so, I may have to do it. On the other hand, it is always good for our state to have a Pres. who likes us. BHO does not...
I can understand, Catwoman, although in that case, I think I'd be forced to abstain. But, it's hard for me to believe that Rick Perry cares about anything other than his own advancement, and since Texas rates so badly in so many ways against other states, would we want the whole country to sink to that level? If Governor Perry would "like" Texasas President, as he's "liked" Texas during the time he's been governor, I don't think we Texans need any enemies. Even President Obama would like Texas better than Mr. Perry, IMHO........
One could make the argument that our corporate overlords/modern-day robber barons and their publicly pious supporters are the new Pharisees. In fact, the modern definition of "pharisee" is "sanctimonious hypocrite." Seems apt to me.
Sweet Jane - Lou Reed!! You've probably heard that a million times.:~)Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
Peace
Less than you might think.;)
I'm not against Christians--I used to be one; was raised Southern Baptist & at church every time the doors were open, so I can somewhat understand where they're coming from on some things. I am against people using Christianity (or any other religion for that matter) to further their own personal agenda. I don't mind a politician praying for our country, but it really seems like Perry was making a show of it.
Sociologists have long noticed that Americans registered much higher levels of religiosity than most industrialized nations. G.K. Chesterton called America "the nation with the soul of a church".
Gallup found that Americans register higher religiosity scores -- as measured by self-reported worship attendance, salience of religion in their personal lives, and confidence in religious institutions -- than other residents of North America and every western European country except Ireland.
Consider these findings from the 2010 American Values Survey, conducted by Public Religion Research Institute:
- Nearly six-in-ten (57 percent) Americans say religion is very important or the most important thing in their lives.
- A majority (51 percent) of Americans report attending religious services at least a few times per month.
- Nine-in-ten Americans report that they believe in God. Nearly two-thirds (64 percent) believe that God is a person with whom one can have a relationship.
- Nearly seven-in-ten (69 percent) Americans believe that the Bible is the word of God, and nearly half of this group (33 percent) believe that the Bible should also be taken literally, word for word.
Moreover, religion is not only a personal matter for many Americans, but it is also something they see as important in evaluating political leaders.
- A July 2011 PRRI survey found that a majority (56 percent) of Americans say it is very or somewhat important for a presidential candidate to have strong religious beliefs, regardless of whether those beliefs are the same as their own. Majorities of both Democrats (51 percent) and Republicans (71 percent) agree with this statement.
- A 2010 survey by Pew Research Center found that approximately six-in-ten (61 percent) Americans agree that it is important that members of Congress have strong religious beliefs, including 55 percent of Democrats and 77 percent of Republicans.
I find this "Bean Dip Dumb" but as I said earlier, it is what it is. Where is Dudley Doright now that we really need him?
Peace
Agreed. Nothing wrong with large prayer meetings or fests held for the public but there should have been a preacher or other religious leader organizing and leading this. Rick Perry should have attended as just "one of the people" and not as a politician - hosting it as part of a political agenda.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zigzagman
It appears at least one of Gov. Perry's prayers was answered.
http://www.rickperry.org/join-today/
This is really going to be fun - the redneck against the black guy. The business community and the evangelical community are all doing their wavy hands thing today. :sick:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg
Peace
Ziggy, is it part of the liberal mindset to group people by their skin color?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zigzagman
Its alright now Ziggy, the grown-ups have come take the country back
Well, that particular 'grown up' wanted to succeed from the union, remember? I believe we call that treason, and pretty much settled that argument in 1861 with the lives of 600,000+ Americans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catwoman
I don't think that's what he actually said, was it?Quote:
Originally Posted by peggy
Intelligence has the same effect on Rick Perry as daylight does on Dracula.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG5oD...layer_embedded
I think we've all toyed with the idea of seceding now and again....but then the rest of the country would freeze in the dark :) so we feel compelled to stick around and prop everybody else up - wink, wink
I'm not evangelical so can't speak for them, but most I know from the business community are taking a little more cautious approach before deciding who to back in 2012. The field grows by one then shrinks by one. It's been an interesting weekend, but just enough so to remind us that next November is a long way off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zigzagman