Trumps: White Angry Middleclass

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Originally Posted by herbgeek

What do you consider affordable Rob? I took a quick look at the ACA plans for Arizona, and the most I was seeing as far as a co-pay was $50 for a bronze plan. How is that an "insane copay"? The copay is there to make sure people aren't being frivolous in doctor visits, but not so high as to prohibit someone who is truly sick.

As far as dental care, a cleaning and X rays costs me about $120. There have been many years I've just paid for that out of pocket. I also don't have a smart phone, don't go to Starbucks, or out to dinner much at all. I exercise at least 5 days a week, do lots of things to reduce stress, eat good fresh healthy food. Its my responsibility to take care of my own health. It drives me crazy to hear health care equated with medical care. The doctor is there for accidents and the things that couldn't be avoided, not to make me better when I make bad choices.

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Recently I had issues with kidney stones. It was very painful. I could not afford the deductible and copay combo.....and wasn't thrilled about the track to Mexico. My husband called a curando (sp?) - a traditional Mexican healer - who recommended corn silk tea. I'm very fortunate to have this wonderful person in my life....he raced off to get me cornsilkto brew......in twenty minutes the pain was reduced and I passed the stone about 90 minutes later.

So I did get around the United States yet again luckily. I don't see how making medical access in this instance unaffordable serves society......if anything, I fear America more and have further respect for Mexico. What does society win from my fear and distrust? I also don't see how having kidney stones is my fault......though I would agree it's my responsibility to keep up with the chanca Piedra and the cornsilk tea the curando recommended, which I am doing. Rob

PS....as to your cleaning at $120..... $25 to $30 in Los Algodones and with a car full of people fleeing to offshore medical/dental your share of the gas is quite cheap. Also (legal) medical herbs and Western pharmacy cheaper across the border too. At 18K a year at the moment, I'm worth the Mexican price. Rob

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Originally Posted by Alan

We both have the same access, although for you, it boils down to whether or not you're willing to pay while not taking on some of the responsibility for ensuring a better outcome.

If I'm not mistaken, you have a college degree you've never used and allowed the citizens of Arizona to send you back to school for a certificate you've never used. You've had more opportunities than many to live the American Dream and for some reason have not. America has not failed you,

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Where I will fault myself..where I can look back and see where I was dense and what was I thinking? I should have went self employed years ago and I should have gotten in on the ground floor with eBay years ago during that incredible economy in the 90's.....For that I kick myself. Also for not buying Ford at $1.76 a share back in 2009.....what was I thinking????? About the degree.....I graduated into the recession of 1990 to 1991 to find it worthless. I ended out waiting tables and for awhile did well.....I was not middle class but I was above where I was raised. I should have saved and invested ALL the excess......I'll even give you that, Alan. Over the years, especially since 2008, serving has become less and less lucrative. About the certificate - I have tried to make something of this but so far no luck. I have tried and I'm not giving up. So I'm not going to say that you are entirely off base here but things are not so cut and dried and linear as you seem to imply. Rob

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

No, you are not in the latter camp. Ya gotta actually flee. Action. That is different from words.

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Wish us luck, IL. Pena Neito is trying to legalize same sex marriage in Mexico and if there is a provision to sponsor for immigration, my husband is a Mexican citizen and I could live there legally. It remains to be seen if this will happen...but if so, places like Querataro and Guanajuato are safe and affordable and I would go for so many reasons....Also not far from the US to keep tabs on my Mom. Rob

Curandero. My SO's father was one, and so was my g-g grandmother Magdalena. It's a good skill to have handy.

I hope Mexico does the right thing, and the two of you can make a comfortable life south of the border, Rob.

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Originally Posted by JaneV2.0

Curandero. My SO's father was one, and so was my g-g grandmother Magdalena. It's a good skill to have handy.

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Yes, that's it. I already owe much to my mother in law's curandero and I don't mean money. Rob

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Originally Posted by JaneV2.0

Curandero. My SO's father was one, and so was my g-g grandmother Magdalena. It's a good skill to have handy.

I hope Mexico does the right thing, and the two of you can make a comfortable life south of the border, Rob.

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Jane, Thank You. Your kind words mean a lot to me. Rob

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Originally Posted by Williamsmith

In a broader sense, the Trump phenomenon is two pronged. Political incorrectness...which the media and establishment has held against him and de-industrialization which is generally the process by which we find ourselves in a stagnant economy. And de-industrialization I mean the loss of labor intensive jobs, the off shoring of jobs to lesser developed nations to take advantage of lower worker costs, the transfer of construction facilities to third world countries and so called free trade agreements which are nothing but smoke screens for government abuse of power.

Trump is is talking like he is against all this especially in the energy industry. He appears to be appealing to the working class union democrats and may entice a large percent of the union vote. I believe Trump is in a better position to win an election that nearly five months away in that Clinton has to hope the economy gets no worse, nothing happens on the terrorist front and no homeland security breeches occur. Any of this would assist Trump as a challenger to the status quo.

For me, never Hillary is enough. Period. I don't need to have a President whom I admire. I only need one to quit undermining our sovereignty, security and wealth. The debt is something that immediately threatens our country. Not climate change.

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Interesting that you say Trump in the same sentence as sending jobs to other countries ... that is his MO. Also you talk about this being a stagnant economy.... look at other nations.... they are in a depression. We are doing well compared to the rest of the world yet you complain. Trump's political incorrectness is beyond brash... he is repugnant to many Americans and most foreigners. Also saying climate change is not an immediate threat is having your head in the sand. Even the head of the Republican party is put off by Trump. Now, that says a lot!!! Even after Ryan said he would endorse Trump he reprimanded him for his ridiculous remarks about the judge in his Trump University fiasco. Also saying you don't need a President that you can admire.... what BS. I do agree that Trump is not someone to admire. Clinton has problems too. Again, it is going to be picking the lesser of two evils.

I think it is the deductible and not the co-pays which are hurting people. Many deductibles start at 6k. To get a low one you have to pay a lot for the coverage which many people can't afford. Since career counseling was my field for many years you can end up with a degree that has no jobs for where you live. I found this out the hard way when I got a MSW in the Midwest back in 1990 and my son who was 16 was making 50 cents more/hour telemarketing/surveys while I was working with abused kids/families and had no benefits. Luckily I was married because I did not make enough $ to support even myself. My friend and I both looked into job employment rates that the school published but found out later they lied. They report as employed even if you are flipping burgers or had a job before you started. WE assumed all those people had jobs in their field. My friend was a single mom and had to move to KS to get a job. Many certificate programs do not lead to jobs. If our clients did not want to move I always researched the local job outlook so we didn't end up paying for education that couldn't be used.

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Originally Posted by bae

Perhaps you should reread what I wrote.

Stock buybacks aren't "hoarding". Sitting on piles of cash and note reinvesting it/distributing it as dividends/buying back shares to increase shareholder equity *is* generally hoarding, unless there is some plan for the use of the Scrooge McDuck -like piles.

Companies that sit on hoards of cash without abelievable plan for its use seem to eventually get targeted by other folks who swoop in, do a takeover, cut up the company into bits, and turn the capital to more efficient uses. This is of course not an instantaneous process, so you almost always can point at some poster-child corporation with tons of loot cluttering up its hallways.

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But what are the sellers of the bought back stock, or dividend receivers likely to do. Probably invest in more stocks in most cases. So, no the company hasn't hoarded the cash, it's instead now being used to push up some other paper asset's price. Owner/foermer owner is now the hoarder. it's not being used for is to invest in increased production capacity or more employees.

That is such an odd view of the function of the stock market (owning stock == hoarding) that I don't really know where to go...