atheists going too far?

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Originally Posted by loosechickens

...so, however inaccurate it may be, you can say, "My image of Fox News viewers is...........", but you can't state as fact that they are all fat, pasty white people. ...
But.....it doesn't help the discussion to characterize people that way, especially if you can't back it up with facts. Just needlessly offensive, especially to Fox News viewers. JMHO

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Or to fat, pasty white people...

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Originally Posted by Gregg

I can not make the connection that a high school student's expression of faith in a speech constitutes state support of his/her religion. It is simply an expression of gratitude and support from someone who accomplished a great feat. None of us accomplish anything worth doing alone. If s/he thanked parents, teachers, study partners, etc. no one would think anything of it. What if a minister was helpful? What if this person truly felt the hand of God guiding them to do great things? Some will scoff at that notion, but none has the right to deny that feeling in someone else. I can see an argument against any religious figure leading a prayer at a publicly funded event like a graduation, but to tell an individual who they can or can't thank in their speech would be diving head first down that slippery slope.

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I also don't have a problem with this. I think that personal/individual freedom of expression, even in govmint supported event, trumps pretty much all else and should have been upheld by the Supreme Court. What I was referencing was would the community, school, Attorney General, Etc allow and support that same personal freedom of expression if the Valedictorian was a non-Christian. I don't think so. Just as I don't think the OP (poetry writer, who is a Christian) would have an issue with the athist's protest if the street sign honoring the firefighters wasn't a Christian belief.

My main concern is about keeping church and state seperate in a state-supported venue BY the government. I feel it demeans ALL religions. I think that for most people their religious beliefs, history, culture, practices and rituals are sacred. To try and encompass ALL of them together in some sort of govmint sponsered generic prayer or historic representation would be not only ridiculus, but massively insulting. Picture the average nativity play many schools use to have. Now envision it as some sort of generic catch-all of many religious beliefs. Baby Buddha born in a manager on the Winter Solstice to Mary, High Priestess of Isis, and Jospeth, His Holiness the Pope, while the Druids wrapped the barn animals in holly wreaths, Ganesh and the Hastidic Jews danced the Chabad in the horse stall, the Three Wise Wiccans cast spells with their gold, frankenscense and myrr, while an Iman called the Faithful to prayer from atop the hayloft, and the Angel Moroni fluttered above it all. While it may make a great "Southpark" episode (with Cartman being the baby Buddha of course - "RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!" :-)), it would be a great insult and sacriledge to everyone's religion. Keeping religion out of the public sector is the only way to preserve the sanctity of each person's relious beliefs IMHO, Now private schools are a different matter.

:D Thank you, Spartana. But - sigh - you forgot the Atheists/Agnostics. Could we maybe have some part here ... I'm sure we could come up with a Hymn of Uncertainty with which to bless the child, if prodded. Away in a manger, the baby lay bare, surrounded by faithful, a victim of Prayer ....
:~)

And an interesting point, as well. Compromise of belief is not an appropriate way to worship, for anyone. A strict separation of church and state ensures that isn't on the table.

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Originally Posted by kib

:D Thank you, Spartana. But - sigh - you forgot the Atheists/Agnostics. Could we maybe have some part here ... I'm sure we could come up with a Hymn of Uncertainty with which to bless the child, if prodded. :~)

And an interesting point, as well. Compromise of belief is not an appropriate way to worship, for anyone. A strict separation of church and state ensures that isn't on the table.

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Well I guess the atheists and agnostics (of which I'm one) would be in the another animal pen with the Satanists, Pagaens and Santariaists slaughtering goats and chickens while we danced naked in a frenzed orgy. I mean, isn't that what atheists and agnostics do??:~)

Naw, I can't dance. I'm more of a lawless morally depleted mean and nasty blasphemous father raper type agnostic, myself. >8)

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Originally Posted by kib

Naw, I can't dance. I'm more of a lawless morally depleted mean and nasty blasphemous father raper type agnostic, myself. >8)

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Oh well, then you'll have to sit in the corner and smolder and pout with the Roman God-worshipping poly-theists. They NEVER play nice. Although they make the animals - especially the sheep - very nervous :-)! Ah the good old days: when men were Men, gods were Gods, and sheep were afraid.

I'm not much of a dancer either, but my moral bankruptcy was discharged years ago. Did someone mention sheep?

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Originally Posted by Spartana

Oh well, then you'll have to sit in the corner and smolder and pout with the Roman God-worshipping poly-theists. They NEVER play nice. Although they make the animals - especially the sheep - very nervous :-)! Ah the good old days: when men were Men, gods were Gods, and sheep were afraid.

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Siiiiigh ... well ok, but only if I get my own donkey. cow-hi Will the Greeks be there too? I don't want to sit next to Narcissus. He's such an asshat.

Finally, the thread has reached the level it deserves.

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Originally Posted by The Storyteller

Finally, the thread has reached the level it deserves.

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There's nothing wrong with someone bringing this up, I'm not bothered by it.

Iris Lily, aetheist