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Actually, they are cast as older white guys, but it isn't just the Dems and the mainstream media doing it. It's the numbers themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
But then, I think certain conservatives here have cast the Republican party in the same light.
Bae,
Up to you, really. I did a google search and could really only find entertainers making the claim in order to be inflammatory and/or entertaining -- which is why I caveated, as well as then asked whether or not O'Reilly should be categorized that way. If he should (as I do Rush), then all good, I don't care about his statement. :)
But if he's considered a legitimate dude in the community, like I think Rove is (which is also why I stated that it didn't look like a "meltdown" to me, I definitely saw his point and what would be the problem of waiting another 10 minutes to call the state or whatever?), then any association with the party would go severely down hill because his statement *is* racist and sexist, imo.
Also, I think it's entirely possible for us to work together, and I've seen politicians (particularly younger ones in general) doing a good job of bridging the gap and being less interested in their party's pushing and far more interested in their constituent's interests. But, to be sure, I suggest that the "older" ones probably are as well, but they don't go on the Daily Show (as an example) as often and chat with their other-party counterparts about this issue openly and intelligently.
What I find really humorous right now is my sister and BIL. The last 4 years, they spent complaning about obama, how terrible he is, this, that and the other. They talked about how they supported republican efforts to NOT cross the divide (a lot of language around holding to your values, no compromise, only working together if their terms are met, etc), and then as soon as obama wins this time, my sister publishes (on fb) this big statement congratulating obama, how we need to cross party lines and work together to solve these common problems, and everyone needs to compromise, etc. And I pointed out: that's what obama ran on 4 years ago (and put a link to him saying those statements).
I'm glad that many people in the party have come to this idea (particularly, as well, since so many republicans lost their seats in congress this time around -- I think many of them were surprised about that too). . . because I do believe it is possible.
I read the articles from redfox about the deception (self deception?) around the numbers, and the claims that the consultants were scamming the campaign (interesting one!).
And, yes, I do see it as an attempt to stay in denial, but honestly. . . I could see his point and it wasn't as if he was being aggressive or weird. I suppose I see meltdowns as more dramatic. for me, this was sort of "more of the same Rove."
whom, btw, I do not watch much, but people talk about him so much that when I was in labor (with my son), it's the only mantra my brain latched too. literally, my brain repeated "karl rove" over and over and over again. Weird, right? Painless labor, other than that.
So what if one wants stuff? Personally I'd give up quite a lot of stuff (including pay more taxes) for a platform of environmental responsibiilty and investment in *that* future, plus civil liberties, but since that's nowhere to be found ...
This economy is so screwed up anyway. They set interest rates at zero and then blame old people if they absolutely rely on social security. If we don't want stuff, reasonable stuff like a good state college system, they throw us into the hands of corrupt cartels and banksters who will provide us with that stuff only in the most exploitive fashion possible (for profit colleges and 100k college loans, and no I'm not even touching the medical system). Meh.
I agree. I found it ironic that a guy who made his money from a company whose sole purpose was to make money rather than create things, was scammed by guys whose sole motivation was to make money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoebird
And this guy was supposed to be this super business manager who was going to save our country.
Zoebird - my experience is not defined by Google, or media personalities. I was referring to members of my own community, who have spoken such words, directly to my face. It is quite divisive and hateful. My wife has been shunned by two ladies in one orchestra she plays in, simply because she voted for a Republican candidate, and was accused of being racist for criticising Obama. Since I was "outed" as a Republican because of my educational effort to participate in the caucus process here, people who have been nice to me for over a decade won't give me the time of day.
It's sickening.
I had a somewhat different take on Rove's reaction to Fox calling the election. Zoebird is right in a sense -- there is no reason they couldn't have waited to make the call. EXCEPT that the presidential election is kind of like the Olympics for American political media. Everyone wants to be the first to make the (correct) call. So they are weighing all kinds of factors, including how much weight to give to the early returns as well as how likely they are to be first.
I think part of Rove's reaction was that he seriously felt (legitimately, perhaps) that Fox was "his" network. He was there for a celebration, not a defeat. When they called it so early, it wasn't just the possibility of defeat that freaked him out. It was discovering that Fox's loyalty to the cause was not as steadfast as he thought. It was kind of like the captain of a sinking ship standing on the bridge trying to issue orders to stand fast and wait for rescue while the crew was all frantically running for the lifeboats.
I do think they call the elections too early, especially what happened in Florida a few years back. As someone who has no choice but to vote by absentee ballot, this bothers me -- does make you wonder sometimes whether your vote really counts. But we got marriage equality, legal pot (not so much for that as against silly drug laws), charter schools, and a Democratic governor in WA all in fairly close races, so I do feel my vote was significant this time. And it was fun to help DH vote for the first time since he naturalized.
lhamo
Woot! Woot! You go girl!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoebird
Here is the difference... Florida was called on exit polls. Ohio was called on actual votes counted, and considering what votes were left outstanding. There was absolutely no doubt. As the Dunder-Miflin nerds at Fox explained, there just weren't enough votes outstanding in Republican areas for Romney to make up the numbers. I understood that just watching it live, without the explanation. Rove doesn't know nearly as much about vote counting as those guys in that room. It is a given they are going to bend over backwards for the Republican cause, but they aren't idiots. They CAN count.Quote:
Originally Posted by lhamo
I knew how much Fox and the Republicans were in denial for weeks. All you had to do was look at the numbers. Instead, the campaign and their allies explained them away. Instead they lied to each other, and they lied to themselves. What you saw with Rove was an on-air, real-time manifestation of their deep, deep denial of reality. Rove couldn't believe those numbers were real. They didn't jive with his alternate reality. THAT is what makes it a melt-down, and so damn fun to watch. Even The Architect was taken completely by surprise.
You can't spin everything. There IS an objective reality.
I find the whole pot thing fascinating. I didn't even know it was on any ballot, certainly not as recreational legalization.Quote:
Originally Posted by lhamo
So I guess folks will start being open about growing a few plants in their garden. But, just as most folks don't grow their own tomatoes, I suppose most won't grow their own pot after a while. This opens up a whole new revenue stream for the state government in taxes (sin tax like booze and cigarettes) and growers. And even tourist, as I can see pot tours to the state like some go to Nevada for prostitution and gambling.
I wonder how long it will take other states to see the added bonus of legalization and put it on their ballots.
I assume the laws of pot usage will be the same as drinking, i.e. no smoking and driving, no smoking under a certain age, not on campus, etc...