http://goodmenproject.com/featured-c...-matters-kcon/
I would like to know others' thoughts on this, especially if you are a guy (minimalist/simple living-type or not) or if you are a woman who has dated minimalists/simple living-types and non-minimalists (maximalists?!).
I'd really, really like to hear from women who dated a guy both pre and post minimalism/simple living.
Well, i am far from minimalist.
dh is not a minimalist, but he doesn't like stuff. He likes having a nice car - which he spends 10 hours in every week so we can live away from the city. He likes having quality tools - which he uses often to provide for us and saves money and prefers to buy once and fix rarely. He likes having newish computer/phone equipment (but still loves the stereo his parents bought him in high school).
When we got married, his parents bought us a piano (he plays). Everything he owned could fit in his car except the piano. His tools are in the shop, so I'm pretty sure that now, everything in the house he owns (individually, or that is ours and he cares about) except the piano and his roll top desk could fit in his car. The kids and I used to joke that if we expected him to be home and we didn't know where he was, we should check the computer and guitar. If they were both gone, he had moved out.
He is intelligent and skilled, and part of his appeal to me (at 17, already knowing that I wanted to stay home to raise my family) was his ability to be an excellent provider. (it didn't hurt that he was hot as heck though)
Well, first I object to the sexist attitude that classifies certain hobbies as "male". And I know plenty of men who don't have "large-in-size hobbies". But it appears the article is targeted to men so I can mostly ignore that.
Second - is a hobby really worse because the items involved are large? So my hobbies of knitting and writing are better (for some reason) than his of camping and shooting? That makes no sense.
Mostly, there is room for moderation. You can have hobbies and own stuff for them, and still mostly be a minimalist. It is your attitude towards stuff that is important; not the exact volume of the stuff you own. Also do you own a lot of things that you never use? Do you buy new hobby stuff but never sell the older items? Are you careful with your purchases of any type?
Since you asked, and I have time to answer, about dating guys with stuff: New man has many more of the "traditional" large-volume hobbies the article mentions, but overall he's more a minimalist than ex was. Because he sells things he isn't using, and doesn't have a lot of household crap that never gets used. Ex's hobbies were smaller (though they have expanded since I moved out) but he has tons of clothes and household items - way more than a person needs. However, neither is really a hoarder or minimalist compared to other people. Both are moderate.
I'm an extreme example (of a minimalist) and currently my hobbies are small items, but that's just because things I happen to be currently interested in are small. If I eventually garden, that's not a small hobby. But I don't want a partner to necessarily be as extreme as me. I'd rather be with a well-rounded person, who wants to do things, and get out of the house, and that can involve spending money and owning certain things.
I reject the premise of the article that frugality = minimalist.
DH is uber frugal, but he's no minimalist. He hardly spends money yet he has a yen to keep every item he has purchased, found, or been given over the 61 years of his life. That's not all bad. He uses a lot of items in his handyman/ construction business. He can always come up with a fix for something using items he has saved. We have an attic, a basement, a double garage full to the top, and we have a couple of little houses that store a fair amount of crap. The "crap" is tools, thousands of pieces of wood and metal, garden pots and buckets, nails and that sort of thing.
When we got married I knew exactly what I was getting. I was getting a man with a conservative approach to money and one who could also agree that we spurge on vacations, that's what you spend big money on! So, our spending values were in sync.
I was also getting a man who couldn't let go of stuff. He had a lot of stuff ( lots of tools, of course) and large "sets" of furniture. Ugly pieces, oh vey they were ugly and he had purchased them used. They were antique and vintage. I negotiated these sets away: dining room, bedroom and sofa/chair/coffee table. I did this before we were married knowing that it's unlikely I would ever have as much negotiating power later. He was the one who really wanted to get married, haha!
i agreed to keep the pieces of furniture he had made himself: One huge honkin desk that he has never in 26 years ever used for work, it just stores crap,and a cheap and ugly floor clock. I also agreed to keep, and I actually love it, his grandmother's oak kitchen table that he refinished. Also he had a large chest freezer that came into our marriage.
Because he is also a domestic God as well as being handy with autos, engines, carpentry, plumbing, electrical etc. he had a LOT of kitchen stuff. When we got married we had to blend our kitchen stuff and not surprisingly he had more than I had.
I actually took photos of him moving his kitchen stuff into my little house because I was so flummoxed by it all. He had very large containers of flour, for instance. WTF. The photos are telling, and he is exactly the same decades later, we buy flour and sugar in bulk bags.
so in summary, I respect DH's tools and the materials he keeps, but his collecting fetish in other domestic areas bugs me. We manage to negotiate space and storage so we can live together in peace.
oh and UL we've got fishing rods and bicycles stored in the basement, unused in 26 years. You may wonder how DH has all of this stuff but doesn't spend much on it. It's because he bought is decades ago or else it comes from his family farm. His family had outbuildings full of stuff.
I think the blog post is nonsense. OK, I'll agree that men, dating back to caveman days, tend to be into displaying their strength, whether it's how accurately they could throw a rock at prey or how much they could spend on a house.
But I've never been a fan of measuring frugality by the size or number of objects one possesses (no offense, Ultralight). My wife has far more clothes and health/beauty aids than I do; it does not make her more or less frugal than me -- or, honestly, more minimalist, since many of her items relate to having to show up at a professional workplace most days. I can buy a brand new car every three years; it does not make me more frugal or more of a simple liver than someone with an old car and an eight-foot-long chest of tools used to fix it. I also know too many guys who either do not have the stereotypical "men's hobbies" -- or whose wives/partners share equally in enjoying the activity and, so, make room for it in their lives.
Nope; doesn't work for me.
None taken! Thanks for chiming in. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinMN
Sexist clickbait.
But how do you really feel about it? haha
My SO's hobby is other people, so he doesn't need much in the way of material goods. He lives in the condo equivalent of a monk's cell. Last time he visited, I sent him home with a folding chair so his guests would have somewhere to sit. But he spends money freely on other things.
I have hobbies and interests and no aversion to stuff, so I have a lot more of it (though I constantly curate and pare down). I am in no way a minimalist--I'll have a hundred items when I check into the Last Stop Rest Home, maybe.
Sexist clickbait, indeed.
It's unfortunate that the Internet is full of this kind of thing.
Sexism oppresses both men and women.
Could the message of the piece be seen as just a poorly explained version of this old saying directed at men?
"Love people, use stuff. Not the other way around."
Ok, I'll accept that as the lesson in the article.Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler
That is what I think it is trying to get at. But I do agree that it might very well be "click bait."Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
Though the minimalist and simple living groups I am part of are just massively dominated by women -- both by numbers and in leadership.
Exactly. It's toxic.Quote:
Originally Posted by rodeosweetheart
I don't view minimalism as being the same as deprivation. If you regularly use and enjoy the things you have, regardless of size, and do not just keep stuff you do not love for the sake of keeping it, then you are living minimally and not in excess for your lifestyle.
I actually liked this article, with one reservation--if it would just replace the word "men" with "people" it would be great. Many good points.
My DH was borderline hoarder when we fell in love. I didn't have my eyes wide open when I got into the situation. My fault, my responsibility. After 8 years I moved out. At that point it was his choice whether he wanted his stuff or a marriage. He eventually chose the marriage, de-cluttered, and we've been together and happy ever since. I realize now how rare it is for someone to be able to change to that degree. I would never ever ever counsel anyone to get married to someone who has a different perspective on "stuff" -- it almost never happens that people change, or change enough to make it work.
Regardless of the person's sex, I think hobbies tend to require stuff. But, a minimalist may have few hobbies and enough free time to enjoy all of them.
As a horseowner, I think I'm quite a bit more minimalist than other horseowners; there is always something you need. There are also things you don't really need multiples of, but they come in different styles and colors. My barn owner has at least 20 saddlepads for her horse. I have 3, and 2 of those are over 20 years old.
My boss's dh has a pickup truck and sends away for gadgets for it weekly. He's like a kid browsing websites and catalogs. When I look at horse equipment, I'm always grateful that I don't need or want anything.
Now I browse horsie gear wishing my arm and shoulder were healed.
I hope you heal up quickly!Quote:
Originally Posted by pony mom
What you talk about above is very interesting stuff. How we reconcile equipment intensive hobbies with simple living and/or minimalism and/or frugality is such a vast and varied discussion. The practices involved in this reconciliation are so customized -- or must be customized. And that makes the whole idea intimidating to many people.
When I am out fishing I will often see some dude with two poles, a couple massive tackle boxes, a motor boat, a trailer, a truck to pull it with, a bunch of electronics like fish finders and such. I mean, the gear just goes on and on.
Then I take a look at myself -- one rod and reel, a tiny canoe, a tackle box the size of shoe, a cooler, and not much else -- no motor, no electronics. And I think: "Man! I am keeping it simple! Look at me! And I catch lots of fish!"
Shortly after I'll paddle by some dude in a pair of rubber boots standing on the shore fishing with less gear than me. He looks serene and relaxed. And he is catching plenty of fish too.
Then I think: "Am I keeping it simple?"
Feel better! Arm and shoulder pain is really tough. Hope it heals up soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by pony mom
Thanks. Had an MRI today and will see ortho next week.
Now that I'm not able to work, I'm on a serious No Spend mission. My four-hooved money pit/hobby will only be getting necessities now. Santa will skip the barn this year.