I wonder if he consulted Putin?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news
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I wonder if he consulted Putin?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news
Yup, he asked for permission from Putie.
I understand Russia was given advance warning through secure diplomatic channels. I would think it went along the lines of "You guys forced us to do this, get your people out if you can and don't even consider retaliation."
Yeah, sure... That is how it went. Right...Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Nothing like a lovely little war to distract the masses. It's the ultimate shiny object--you'll notice cable news isn't talking about the dozens of Trump scandals anymore.
Syria is a confusing quagmire of various international groups with a hand in the mix. Chemical agents are hardly acceptable, but I don't know that they are much worse than the executions and slaughters of civilians carried on by ISIS, who the Asaad regime seems to be fighting against. I did notice that one cruise missle apparently costs about 1.5 million dollars.
I can say with certainty that the 85006 does not approve of this attack. I spoke with a Nicaraguan family here legally and they were of the opinion that the US needs to get it's own house in order before hypocritically exporting war to other countries and I could not agree more. It's beyond hypocritical to want to build a wall against your second largest trading partner (Mexico) and then send missiles to Syria. I don't know how much what little is left of middle class America or those above that level understand this but the lower social classes get this, and at least that gives me some hope and some comfort. Little good does my hope and comfort do for innocent dead Syrians, however. Rob
So far, critics of the strike include Russia, Iran, China and Rob's zip code. The rest of the world seems surprisingly supportive.
Sarin gas use should be everyone's line in the sand.
I just left the Mexican deli at Food City down the street. I ran into a neighborhood activist there and we talked of many things including this missile attack in Syria. I'm not an activist to the point that this youngish lady from Augascalientes is, but she tells me that Trump is now being seen as a Warmonger in the 85006, along with many other unflattering attributes/adjectives. Apparently there is going to be a protest later today and I'm bummed as I'm working a lunch banquet and a long dinner banquet and then prepping for a breakfast banquet the following day, so I'm unable to participate. My point however is that my take on this is far from isolated as your post would seem to imply. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
One analyst I heard yesterday on NPR, some guy who runs some kind of foreign relations think tank (how's that for credentials? Haha) said that he thought Syria's chemical attack was less of a FU to the world/U.S. than it was a direct affront for the Russians. He thought it was intended to show the Russians that Assad is independent of Putin. He presumed that Syria had an agreement with Russia (since Russia is backing them) to not use chemical warfare and this shows the Ruskies, hey, you guys don't control me.
I found that very interesting.
Assad has been especially and horrifically cruel over the years generating a desperate opposition. The last straw was hitting the rebels not ISIS targets and doing it with deadly gases. Putin will never agree with the US at anything but will be glad that Assad has been held accountable without the Russians having to do so.
Will it solve anything? No!
The Mid-East is a cauldron of hate despite the Muslim shared faith system. Until that hate is dealt with, the problems will continue.
This is not due to religion but due to the mindset of people seeing the world as 'us' vs the 'other' which has many variations - black vs white, aboriginal vs settlers, rich vs poor, India vs Pakistan, religious vs atheist ....
I have come to believe that the world seems to want to "wait until the other sees the light of truth" and only then there will be peace. Foolishness!
ETA some thoughtful analytical comment from CNN:
"Jen Psaki, a CNN political commentator and spring fellow at the Georgetown Institute of Politics and Public Service, served as the White House communications director and State Department spokeswoman during the Obama administration. Follow her: @jrpsaki. The opinions expressed in this commentary are hers.
Trump acted without consulting Congress, without clear legal authority and without any coordinated military action by our partners and allies. President Obama did not move forward in 2013, even after stating that Syria using chemical weapons would cross a red line, without the support of Congress and the international community...
But changing the calculus on the ground in Syria will require more than military force. Is there a diplomatic plan? Is there a line of contact with the Russians about the role they can play? How will the strikes translate into a change in Assad's behavior?
I'm inclined to agree with you. If we can't agree on doing something about gassing children, what's the point of civilization?Quote:
Originally Posted by IshbelRobertson
Sure, ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
But why can't the UN and others take charge of this if is clear that only outliers think this should pass without action? What the F good IS the UN and etc in this case?
Oh, wait...yeah. Ok.I guess it is clear they are fairly useless. But then, I wonder if we all should just let them be fairly useless.
What moral authority will prevent North Korea from attacking without direct provocation with missiles? What will the world including Russia, the US and China do to North Korea? Just wondering...
Maybe someone should show T photos of the starving children in Somalia.
As long as you have any of the permanent members of the security council at odds, not much is going to get done by the UN. To be fair US has cast its own share of vetos on the council, including ones for bans on chemical weapons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...curity_CouncilQuote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
i could not agree with you more. Why we are looked upon to police the world, even though Trump very recently said things like I am representing the world, the world is better off with less conflict. Was it not a few days ago when he was addressing a union group and reinforcing his America first ideas where he even said "I am not president of the world, just the US?Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
It it seems to me much of our recent messes have come from unilateral strikes instead of forming equal coolitions. Being the worlds aggressor also means less money to spend on domestic problems. Plus putting our armed forces, and all citizens for that matter, in graver danger. As horrible as these people are, will this do any good?
How quickly things inks change when you are really in charge and you try to work with your advisors to decide how to respond. But the real question is how he will respond next because we all know everyone is not going to just go away and say "oK, we'll just stop and behave however you want us to."
And another article from from a few months ago.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/tr...rticle/2616086
i am not sure how you can speak for an entire zip code, but there was a mix this morning in a group of people I was in. Some thought it was time for Trump to show he was not weak like Obama in their opinion, some thought it was a horrible waste of money that could be spent on domestic areas instead of an unwinnable conflict abroad. Many opinions. I just wish we did not go for it alone with a small group of people at the top of one government making the decision that could have huge ramifications. That is why we have congress and the UN and various coalitions.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
I agree it should have been a UN decision. We can not be the world's policeman.
I spent an interesting afternoon today in Oslo in the square in front of the Nobel Peace Center chatting with folks from all over the world about this, including a fair number from Syria - the takeaway is "too bad things are so complicated and there are no good answers." Saw lots of uniformed, very serious Norwegian military folks moving with purpose as well.
Possibly related to the Stockholm attack?Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
That seems like a reasonable theory. Tonight, the police officers wandering around who were unarmed earlier in the day seem to have armed themselves. The streets here would be positively ripe for that sort of truck/auto attack. I also noticed that there are raisable bollards on many of the street/square entrances, and they mostly seem to be in the "raised" position now.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
Interesting times.
goddamn it, the bastards might actually try for another regime change. ****ing hell.
(ok if there are bad word censors here they can ding me, but that is my impression of this)
You forgot to include everyone on my Facebook feed also seems to be against. The general hypothesis on my fee seems to be along the lines of that the Syrians were notified via Russia so that there would be minimal deaths but president little hands could look tough, and maybe at least for a day, everyone would be distracted from the steady flow of names of trump folks who talked to Russia prior to the election.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
of course this is also the best case scenario, so may we dearly hope this is true and no further escalation takes place.Quote:
The general hypothesis on my fee seems to be along the lines of that the Syrians were notified via Russia so that there would be minimal deaths but president little hands could look tough, and maybe at least for a day, everyone would be distracted from the steady flow of names of trump folks who talked to Russia prior to the election.
Add Mitch McConnell to the list of people against the attack. At least when it was a democratic president who wanted to do such an attack...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.ffec9c7f75ae
Why is killing with sarin so much worse than killing with bombs? Ours or theirs.Quote:
Originally Posted by IshbelRobertson
And at Akershus Fortress yesterday, the "ceremonial" guards were wearing body armor under their period wool outfits, and carrying HK416Ks, as well as sabers. On a hot sunny day. Poor devils. The Munch Museum had airport-level security going into the exhibit spaces - detectors, baggage scanners, and so on.
Lots of mounted police officers in the streets today, loaded for bear.
The streets and plazas and boardwalks are packed with people having fun and going about their business.
And heck, blowing stuff up is great for political fundraising too!
https://mobile.twitter.com/SenatorLu...ey-always-were
What kind of world are we living in when the 85006 and alt Right boogeyman Steve Bannon agree? Bannon's isolationist ideas are now absent from the National Security Council.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
I guess this is one of those political circles where the far right meet the far left.
Personally, I am not sure "isolationist" is a bad word for U.S. policy, though.
The theory I was taught in "War 101" was that it related to the "proportionality" rule. You were obligated to try limiting the level of force to that required for the mission. Broadcast chemical weapons are listed among those being so difficult to control and indiscriminate in effect as to violate that rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Florence
It certainly sounds better and more honest than "lead from behind".Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
But I'm not sure that "isolationism" isn't an unrealistic extreme on the spectrum of "do nothing to world savior". Aren't there options, short of direct occupation, available to us in nasty cases like Syria? At the risk of being called hypocritical by people who ask why we intervened here instead of there, can't we judiciously apply force short of war as the opportunity presents itself? Doing the occasional small kindness of savaging a chemical weapons facility or killing a terrorist chieftain doesn't necessarily mean we need to act as the cop on every global block .
Oslo train station and airport security very very serious this morning. Waitress at Oslo airport restaurant promised us "Stockholm is usually very safe, this sort of thing never happens.". Security at Stockholm airport through the roof.
Muslim cab driver on the way to our apartment struck up a conversation with how upset he was by this violence, and took us on an off-the-clock tour of our new neighborhood, and pointed out some nice dinner spots.
So far, still alive....
Pics of your new neighborhood or it didn't happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
you've been watching Fox too much. Things can be easily photoshopped.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
Just a few blocks away, just now. Flowers and a "free hugs" event for their first responders.
http://i.imgur.com/oupUboi.jpg