Nomadland by J Bruder

I am posting a link to a web page that provides a well written synopsis of this book. It's recently written and chronicles the lives of folks living way outside the norm of our culture. Some are by choice but most have become RV and van dwellers for economic reasons. The age range is mostly 60+

The book is for sale through Amazon. But, after reading how it is to work at an amazon fulfillment center, I will make sure to find an alternative way to purchase things in the future. I got this book on library loan.

In a way, it is simple living, choices have been made around where and how folks live.

https://www.jessicabruder.com/nomadlandbook/

There have been a lot of articles on this. Most of these people are not happy living in RV's and following cheap, hard labor jobs. They would be better off renting low income senior apartments and applying for other benefits in order to make ends meet.

It is in my library queue. Since we moved here, we see quite a few older RVs parked in the corners of strip center parking lots. And older folks at the park who are obviously living in their cars.

I listened to the audio on Hoopla through our library. It is a hard way to survive.

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Originally Posted by Teacher Terry

There have been a lot of articles on this. Most of these people are not happy living in RV's and following cheap, hard labor jobs. They would be better off renting low income senior apartments and applying for other benefits in order to make ends meet.

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Terry, I second this. My older retired sibling has a govt-subsidized 1 bedroom apt in a senior complex that he rents for $450/month. Rent is scaled to your monthly income, although I don't know what the exact proportion is. His only income is social security.
The complex is secure with a buzzer system main door, and has free parking in a locked lot, plus a pool. There's a manager or assistant at the front desk during daytime hours. The complex is in a great part of town, with easy access to buses and light rail.
Why any senior would bother with the stress of maintaining a large vehicle and traveling across country for $10/hour jobs just doesn't make sense.

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Originally Posted by Lainey

Terry, I second this. My older retired sibling has a govt-subsidized 1 bedroom apt in a senior complex that he rents for $450/month. Rent is scaled to your monthly income, although I don't know what the exact proportion is. His only income is social security.
The complex is secure with a buzzer system main door, and has free parking in a locked lot, plus a pool. There's a manager or assistant at the front desk during daytime hours. The complex is in a great part of town, with easy access to buses and light rail.
Why any senior would bother with the stress of maintaining a large vehicle and traveling across country for $10/hour jobs just doesn't make sense.

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There is a lack of subsidized housing in many areas. That is one reason for the nomadic life.

Another is pure lack of economic sophistication, an inability to understand how much the mobile life really costs. Think of all of the people we know living a mortgage-full ecistance with time payments on their toys. These are not smart financial decisions.

A third reason is that any senior subsidized place comes with rules. Many people are not so keen on that.

Yet another reason is that economic uncertainty and constant struggle is an expected way of life for many, they really do not know or value another way. You are thinking like a middle class person with middle class value of stability. Not all think like that.

Probably the forced nomadic life is a combo of the above.

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Originally Posted by Lainey

Terry, I second this. My older retired sibling has a govt-subsidized 1 bedroom apt in a senior complex that he rents for $450/month. Rent is scaled to your monthly income, although I don't know what the exact proportion is. His only income is social security.
The complex is secure with a buzzer system main door, and has free parking in a locked lot, plus a pool. There's a manager or assistant at the front desk during daytime hours. The complex is in a great part of town, with easy access to buses and light rail.
Why any senior would bother with the stress of maintaining a large vehicle and traveling across country for $10/hour jobs just doesn't make sense.

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I went ahead and followed the link (thank you Cypress, great topic!) to the Harpers article here, and it is absolutely worth a read, and helps to explain why this woman ends up in this situation:

https://harpers.org/archive/2014/08/...of-retirement/

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Originally Posted by Lainey

Terry, I second this. My older retired sibling has a govt-subsidized 1 bedroom apt in a senior complex that he rents for $450/month. Rent is scaled to your monthly income, although I don't know what the exact proportion is. His only income is social security.
The complex is secure with a buzzer system main door, and has free parking in a locked lot, plus a pool. There's a manager or assistant at the front desk during daytime hours. The complex is in a great part of town, with easy access to buses and light rail.
Why any senior would bother with the stress of maintaining a large vehicle and traveling across country for $10/hour jobs just doesn't make sense.

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Wow. Your sibling is in a great place. I've never heard of one with a pool or fully staffed office or being in a 'great part of town'. Here the waiting list is years long for a crappy old apartment in a hard to get to area of town not within walking distance of anything. Rent is pretty high for low social security income so not many can afford cars and must depend on the OATS bus for trips to Dr or Supercenter shopping.

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Originally Posted by Teacher Terry

There have been a lot of articles on this. Most of these people are not happy living in RV's and following cheap, hard labor jobs. They would be better off renting low income senior apartments and applying for other benefits in order to make ends meet.

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To each his own. Some may prefer to be less boxed-in, as they would be in a low-income senior apartment. Some may not have outgrown a sense of adventure. Some really like to feel productive, even if standing on an assembly line chatting with coworkers.

I read the Harper's article, which was great--thank you, Cyress, and thanks for the encouragement to read it, Tybee. If you get very little SS, like some of these people, and have no savings, making ends meet can be really difficult. But JUST living on a very small social security check in subsidized housing watching game shows all day seems more miserable to me than just doing what you can to better your situation with like-minded folks.

As the opening song in Spamalot goes, "I'm not dead yet."

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Originally Posted by Tybee

I went ahead and followed the link (thank you Cypress, great topic!) to the Harpers article here, and it is absolutely worth a read, and helps to explain why this woman ends up in this situation:

https://harpers.org/archive/2014/08/...of-retirement/

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That was a good article, Tybee. Thanks for sharing.

So here many seniors have section 8 housing which pays the landlord a set amount for rent if they will accept it. So I have 2 friends (one with lots of $) and one with none that live in the same nice 2 bedroom apartment complex for seniors. The one with no $ pays 30% of her income. The building has a community room and a card room. The tenants organize all their fun activities themselves and their is always something to do. Some can't afford cars but the people that have them often take the ones that don't when they go on errands. Talk about busy-my 2 friends have a huge friend network and are busy all the time. No more rules then having to live in a regular apartment.

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Originally Posted by Teacher Terry

So here many seniors have section 8 housing which pays the landlord a set amount for rent if they will accept it. So I have 2 friends (one with lots of $) and one with none that live in the same nice 2 bedroom apartment complex for seniors. The one with no $ pays 30% of her income. The building has a community room and a card room. The tenants organize all their fun activities themselves and their is always something to do. Some can't afford cars but the people that have them often take the ones that don't when they go on errands. Talk about busy-my 2 friends have a huge friend network and are busy all the time. No more rules then having to live in a regular apartment.

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I'm sure some people really do enjoy it and thank God it's there for them. My lawyer son has been trying to talk BIL into applying for Section 8. He's not retirement age--he's 55, but he's a minimum wage worker with very few SS credits. I looked up the apartments available under Section 8 in this area and they're very nice.

Plus once you have a address you can apply for any benefits you may need, access to decent healthcare, etc. Also you can take advantage of the free or cheap senior activities, meals, events, etc. RV' can not hold the heat in the cold weather either. AARP also places low income seniors in p.t. jobs if they want them and pays 10/hour. When I worked for the state we would have seniors from that program working for us and doing office work. RV parks also have rules. Spaces are so close together that you might as well be in an apartment. The average SS check is between 900-1000 so these people did not work much if they only get 500/month or worked under the table, etc. When they all come to NV I should go hold a seminar for them:~).

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Originally Posted by Lainey

Terry, I second this. My older retired sibling has a govt-subsidized 1 bedroom apt in a senior complex that he rents for $450/month. Rent is scaled to your monthly income, although I don't know what the exact proportion is. His only income is social security.
The complex is secure with a buzzer system main door, and has free parking in a locked lot, plus a pool. There's a manager or assistant at the front desk during daytime hours. The complex is in a great part of town, with easy access to buses and light rail.
Why any senior would bother with the stress of maintaining a large vehicle and traveling across country for $10/hour jobs just doesn't make sense.

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Hi Lainey, where is this place! This is exactly what I have in mind. I've got 10 more working years to go and intend to apply for senior housing in my town at age 62. I am quite comfortable moving in to an apartment that takes a % of monthly income. I will be able to walk to the town beach, but we don't have public transportation.

A lot of these folks have only SS as an income stream each month and need to subsidize with work. The author leaves out a balance of hearing from their families, or the employers, or people on the outside observing their challenges and choices of life style. You get one side. The author lived this lifestyle for two years to understand her subject matter. I call it immersion journalism. I heard a discussion with the author on Rick Steeves Radio Hour on my local NPR station. I was stunned to understand this is a way people live.

This senior complex is downtown Phoenix.
I'm surprised more cities and towns around the country don't have something as nice. It's not extravagant, but it is well maintained, probably akin to most mid-range apartment complexes here.

I've heard before that politicians and communities actually prefer to build senior housing. It seems like when there's talk of helping the homeless with subsidized housing, there's an immediate NIMBY reaction. But if you say that it will be limited to seniors age 55+, then the neighbors are fine with it. So in many places the senior citizens have an easier time getting housing than families or non-senior adults.

I have the book on order.

I believe that as people age, each person tends to become more of an individual. It may be perplexing that some folks opt for the nomadic RV workamping life, when they "coulda" maybe moved into Section 8 housing. Camaraderie? Live-free-or-die? I am looking forward to reading about these folk, and understanding them a bit.

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Originally Posted by dado potato

I have the book on order.

I believe that as people age, each person tends to become more of an individual. It may be perplexing that some folks opt for the nomadic RV workamping life, when they "coulda" maybe moved into Section 8 housing. Camaraderie? Live-free-or-die? I am looking forward to reading about these folk, and understanding them a bit.

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i have met a lot of these nomads in our three summers traveling around the country.
Some people don’t want government assistance at all. Some like the freedom of being able to move at the end of a contract. There are many people out there who lost good paying jobs in the auto or manufacturing industries and when the factories closed down they had to sell houses at a discount. Some work in national and state parks, some are in private parks and work in nearby towns. Even some are in county parks. Some camp on BLM land and come to clean out their tanks, do laundry etc. every so often. In this population there are a lot of single women and men who love their freedom that they could not have in an apartment. Some spend six months up north and six months down south.

there are are all kinds of mail forwarding services and if you get residency in certain states taxes are the most advantageous. If you like to bike and hike, sit outside and read, swim, walk and so on, it can be an idyllic life. Much less rushed than most of us. Most state and national parks have time limits if you don’t work there, but there are tons of camping options out there. RV insurance is much lower than house insurance, and cable bills, lawn mowing etc are not an issue.

I would have liked Loose Chickens' take on this, but I see she has not posted anything since 2012.

I finally finished the entire book. Also read the article in Harpers. I liked these 2 paragraphs from the author:

"During my stops in Nevada and Kansas, along with three weeks tenting on federal land south of Quartzsite, a pattern emerged. Unprompted, many workampers told me how happy they were. How free. What an adventure it was. That everything happened for a reason.

I nodded along. I liked these people, so I wanted to believe. Still, I grew increasingly worried about them: under the carefree veneer, it was hard not to read something darker. I began wondering: What happens to all these people when they're too old to scrub campsite toilets or walk ten hours a day in an Amazon warehouse or lift thirty-pound sacks of sugar beets in the cold? When they can't see well enough to drive cumbersome rigs on the highway? Some geriatric migrants I met already seemed one injury or broken axle away from true homelessness. Vans and trailers don't last forever. Neither do bodies.

Just really makes me wonder why we can't do better in this country by people like this.

We can and do. They are choosing not to apply for everything that they are entitled to as I mentioned up thread.

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Originally Posted by Lainey

I finally finished the entire book. Also read the article in Harpers. I liked these 2 paragraphs from the author:

"During my stops in Nevada and Kansas, along with three weeks tenting on federal land south of Quartzsite, a pattern emerged. Unprompted, many workampers told me how happy they were. How free. What an adventure it was. That everything happened for a reason.

I nodded along. I liked these people, so I wanted to believe. Still, I grew increasingly worried about them: under the carefree veneer, it was hard not to read something darker. I began wondering: What happens to all these people when they're too old to scrub campsite toilets or walk ten hours a day in an Amazon warehouse or lift thirty-pound sacks of sugar beets in the cold? When they can't see well enough to drive cumbersome rigs on the highway? Some geriatric migrants I met already seemed one injury or broken axle away from true homelessness. Vans and trailers don't last forever. Neither do bodies.

Just really makes me wonder why we can't do better in this country by people like this.

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Unprompted expressions of joy about life must really be tamped down with dour predictions. As one poster here would remind us, this is our Puritan nature guiding this point of view. Is joy about one’s unrepentant current situation even a godly thought?

The mantle of always knowing what is best for everyone is quite a heavy one.

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

The mantle of always knowing what is best for everyone is quite a heavy one.

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I was thinking that too. You know my wife and I have discussed the possibility of work camping for a year or two just for the adventure of it. It distresses me to think that people would assume we were on the verge of homelessness during our sojourn.

Research it carefully. It’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of unexpected crisis management. I’d say it’s a lot like a waxed red delicious apple.......it looks plenty better than it tastes. A hot shower in a truck stop is $8.

For a neat little tour tour of the community....I recommend this guy and his YouTube channel. Start with this episode:

“Pooping in a Car, Van or RV......”

https://youtu.be/-gj3ocdO4Qk

Lots of people are campground hosts because they get free camping. I have known people to do this for a summer and then return home. People are totally free to live how they want which is a good thing. I was just commenting on the comment that someone made saying we should do better. We have services for people that want them. If they don't that is fine too. I love my iphone as it was easy for me to buy the book and download it instead of waiting for it to arrive.

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Originally Posted by Williamsmith

Research it carefully. It’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of unexpected crisis management. I’d say it’s a lot like a waxed red delicious apple.......it looks plenty better than it tastes. A hot shower in a truck stop is $8.

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I've been researching it for the past 10 years as we spend 4 to 6 weeks each year on the road in our RV. Believe it or not, hot showers and clean toilets travel with us.

No way am I cleaning toilets and putting up with people’s BS for a free spot and minimum wage.

My husband's retired uncle lived in a well kept 5th wheel trailer and moved between Iowa and Texas. In the summer, he was in Iowa and worked at an amusement type park for wages and free parking in a well maintained lot with other people doing the same thing. In Texas, he volunteered at a national park and had a nice lot to park his trailer. He knew everyone and when he got cancer, the manager and employees at the park could not do enough for him and my husband's mother, his sister.

Some just like the independence, the social nature of working, the daily schedule, etc. After getting to know the "issues" of living in senior housing (not income supported), I have my doubts about every moving into such a situation. It is good for safety but my goodness, the social issues of some of the residents can be very maddening.

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

Unprompted expressions of joy about life must really be tamped down with dour predictions. As one poster here would remind us, this is our Puritan nature guiding this point of view. Is joy about one’s unrepentant current situation even a godly thought?

The mantle of always knowing what is best for everyone is quite a heavy one.

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Yes, it must be frustrating for them when the lower orders refuse to vote in their best interest.

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

Unprompted expressions of joy about life must really be tamped down with dour predictions. As one poster here would remind us, this is our Puritan nature guiding this point of view. Is joy about one’s unrepentant current situation even a godly thought?

The mantle of always knowing what is best for everyone is quite a heavy one.

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In this case, I agree with IL. Not sure why. ;). To her point, I am taking the people at their word when they say they enjoy their lives.

I was telling my son about my mother, and the topic swung around to the one I've cited frequently here: the fact that she died with one bag and one box of possessions to her name. My son says, "I don't know if, when you say that, you are saying that's a terrible thing or a great thing." Good question, because most people think it's terrible that she died with barely nothing.

But I knew her when she had all the burdens of middle class life with 3 alcoholic husbands in the mix, and when her illness divested her of all that, she became almost mystical in her joy and serenity. I never remember her complaining that she didn't have more stuff.

But when it comes to the core thesis of the article, aside from the "headin' for the highway" joie de vivre attitude of some of these septuagenarians, there is the issue that they HAVE to work. They are not CHOOSING to work necessarily. That's the social issue being tackled here. We don't know each person's story. Are they to blame because they didn't live more frugally? Because they didn't pursue higher education or better job skills earlier on? Did they squander their potential savings and put themselves in this position? Or has society created a pothole for this population? Is it because we have moved away from multi-generational homes? Refused to raise minimum wage to a living one? Who knows? What is the definitive retirement life anyway? This article implies a template. Work, make money, stash it, retire at 65, and live off of the savings in a life of leisure. That template is somewhat new-fangled, and it may be time we rethink it--what's good and what's not so good about it.

I bought the book yesterday and look forward to reading it. We met a couple in Denver who loved the RV lifestyle but didn’t work. They spent winter somewhere warm. I have friends in senior housing that love it due to all the activities, etc. Most of them have lost their spouses. They said that the sad thing is all the people dying. I don’t see myself living there. If you are in a harsh climate in a RV it sucks. I feel bad for people that can never retire because eventually physically they won’t be able to work.

"I feel bad for people that can never retire because eventually physically they won't be able to work.".
This. I don't know what all of this other commentary is about.

I look at this as part of a trend driven by the sector of our society that the economic down trickle doesn’t trickle down to. These aren’t typically the historical RV crowd that might be retired and adventurous wanting to travel in relative comfort. These are the elderly that are being priced out of homes or even families with no other option but to find a used RV and be gypsies. They find jobs as shopping cart retrievers or grocery baggers and park their van, camper or rv in the WalMart parking lot until they get kicked out. They work minimum wage subliving wage jobs. They do jobs teenage kids used to do on summer break. They are not much farther up the ladder than homeless. As to their general satisfaction with what life dealt them....you’ll find very contented all the way to disillusioned. Generally, nobody cares who they are or what they are until they start parking in and milling around your neighborhood. Then suddenly it’s a problem. I just think we ought to acknowledge that it’s a journey a lot of people have been forced to make and not a vacation.

On a related note, on FB yesterday, one of my old high school friends (so she's the same age as I am) posted "Officially retired today!! Time to enjoy life!!!" My first thought was--you're going to start enjoying life NOW? At 66? Is life like having a tasteless gruel cake, and then when you're almost dead you get to have a dollop of ice cream on top?

But her sentiment reflects the whole YMOYL theme, that until you are free of the work-earn-spend-work-earn-spend cycle, your life is not really your own to enjoy to its fullest. But her sentiment just sounds so wrong.

I live full time in my motor home in AZ. I live in RV parks down in Phoenix metro (mostly East Valley area) and when I feel like it I turn the key and move. The rent in the parks is cheaper for the RV's for that reason. A lot of the parks are a mixture of fixed older mobile homes and newer park models. Those units are pretty permanently parked, so they have to put up with whatever fees the managers and owner corporations hit them with. As I said, I can turn the key. In the summers I live in a small town at 5,000' that is cooler, highs in the 80's and 90's rather than 110 or 120. My motor home is 20 yo, but it was a top of the line back in the day and is in good shape. I paid $6K for it. Liability insurance is $60/6mo, and plates were $20/yr.

I retired a couple of years ago (somewhat involuntarily...) at 61. I started taking SS at 62. I have a 401(k) that I use to top off my monthly income. I live like a queen for under $2K/mo. I have a paid off Mazda3 to take trips in at 35/40 mpg. I can car camp, or if I want to stay longer I can take the motor home.

My exit strategy is evolving. I think I want to set up the motor home as a base camp, probably up in the small town. Or, maybe someplace else. Get something smaller to travel further in, either a van set up for camping or a truck with a small travel trailer. Each has its pluses and minus's. When I need to stop traveling, I hope to stay put someplace in my motor home or whatever I have at that point. When that is no longer possible I'll do that subsidized senior apartment.

My Mom is 87yo and lives in a subsidized apartment in the small town here. The main issue I see is when the social/management issues come up, she can't turn the key and leave. That will be me at some point. I want to put that day off as far as possible.

I have picked up a part time job, but it is going very part time as of today. I don't need the money enough to do what is necessary for most of the available positions. A lot of the folks that I know who work part time while on the road do it to have extra money, not so much to survive. It is sometimes easier to adapt to circumstances with a very inexpensive lifestyle than it is to adapt to a difficult job. Each person has to find the set point for themselves.

I've been doing the 'nomad' thing for over 2 years, and I follow blogs and count as friends a large number of other RV'ers. Most are very happy with the choice they made to move to a house with wheels. I think the author's political agenda is shown in the part mentioned above where she says that people she runs into talk spontaneously about how happy they are, but SHE knows they are really darkly unhappy. That is her baggage and political agenda talking.

I may have some baggage of my own about this damn book.

One interesting thing we are finding is that some parks are saying your RV can’t be older than 15 or 20 years. Ours is a good quality 25 yo motor home with miles under 50k. Some places don’t put that in their website yet turn people around when they arrive. I learned this from forums so always inquire before we book. We have met people that love living in them. I enjoyed the book because it takes a good look at poverty and the elderly in this generation. We bought it from our friends parents who traveled in it for a year. One month is my limit but DH is messy

I saw this book at one of the libraries I frequent now and checked it out.

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Originally Posted by Yppej

I saw this book at one of the libraries I frequent now and checked it out.

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That one is on my list - please let us know how you like it.

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Originally Posted by rosarugosa

That one is on my list - please let us know how you like it.

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This is the book that served as inspiration for last year’s fictional film with Francis Dormand called Nomadland. A very nice film with a melancholy tone which fit the author’s view.