Forgive... but how?

I have come to a point in my life where I have recognized I need to 'clean up' some old things and part of this was to forgive two people in my life. But the thing is: I don't know how.

The first person hurt me badly a long long time ago. She acknowledged she did but seems to have moved on pretty well. This kind of bothers me. And even upsets me. How can she hurt someone and still live a normal life, as for me I have been thinking about this pretty much every day for a long time. Even talking about it makes me cry. But I have to move on too.
I want to forgive this person what she did but am I going to sit with her and tell her that I forgive her, face to face? She might not take me serious because this happened a long time ago (18 years) and could wonder if I am sane at all to wait so long with this to deal with. Or am I just going to write a letter and tear it up on the beach and forget about what happened.

The second person is my mother. We had a serious argument and I decided not to talk to her for a while. I felt she did me wrong and I still do. But she passed away one summer morning. And I felt guilty over my anger right after her passing. But after a while I figured she really had hurt me and owed me an apology. Even if she passed away.
I know this sounds silly but how can you forgive someone that has passed away?

Boy, I went to a fantastic evening program on forgiveness by a counselor who specializes in "forgiveness therapy" and I WISH I had saved the handout for you.

I think the main thing is realizing the forgiveness is not for the benefit of the other person--it's for you. You are the one who has to let go--so it doesn't matter if your mother is now dead. Maybe you could write her a letter and express your feelings, letting them all go in the process. You could explain the hurt, but then tell her in the letter that you forgive her.

As for the first person, you don't have to sit face-to-face. Because forgiveness is for you, you can just forgive in your heart and let the hurt go.

I had a friend who had a lot of lingering anger and resentment towards a person and she couldn't let go. She really, really wanted to. One day she saw a room in her mind that was cluttered with dead leaves and sticks and stuff. All of a sudden a breeze came through the room and swept all the leaves out the door. At that moment she knew she had forgiven, and all the resentment and anger was gone. So maybe you could visualize something similar.

Forgiveness is sometimes not easy, but if you harbor the negative feelings, it can make you physically ill, so you might as well try!

I very much recommend Byron Katie's "Loving What Is". It is a clear and usable method for letting go of things like what you describe.

It is so hard to wrap our heads around the idea of forgiveness being for ourselves and having NOTHING whatsoever to do with the other person apologizing, acknowledging, or in any way responding to our change of heart. But it is true. If you feel you have something to forgive, then that's your work. Good for you for seeing it and being prepared to rise to that challenge. I also like Byron Katie's work, and have found a lot of release for myself in expressing my feelings (sometimes pretty darn loudly) in private or in therapy, and then allowing the hurt to just evaporate in its own time.

Best wishes on this very important personal journey.

I agree w/ above posters who say that forgiveness has nothing to do with communicating it to the person who has wounded you (dead or alive.) I also find the work of Katie Byron helpful, but I REALLY like the following from Joan Borysenko:

Forgiveness is one of the least understood of the spiritual practices. It has nothing to do with condoning poor behavior in ourselves and others. Rather, it calls us to responsibility. In forgiving ourselves, we make the journey from guilt for what we have done (or not done) to celebration of what we have become. This transformation of heart comes about through reflecting on the results of our mistakes, understanding how ignorance or woundedness created those actions, and doing the necessary healing so that we will do better next time. Error calls us to repentance, which means literally to think again. It is the crucible in which the soul is forged and the psyche healed. Mistakes, in fact, are sacred because of the powerful potential for growth that they contain.

Joan speaks mostly about forgiving ourselves. Forgiving others who have wounded us calls for recognizing that their woundedness or ignorance created the offending behavior. If they are not willing to aknowledge it, distancing oneself for protection is the only sane route, while continuing patience w/ oneself and hopefully eventally forgiveness. (Again for the benefit of oneself, not the abuser)

[I find it really intersting that you posted this in Organization, not Family...]

From a Christian perspective, forgiveness is different than reconciliation. Reconciliation means that you and the other person have made peace. Forgiveness simply means you are not going to make the other person pay for what they did, that you will willingly forego anything owed to you. It doesn't mean what they did was right or that you will put yourself in a position where they can do it again. Forgiveness is unilateral, reconciliation is not.

So you can forgive someone who has died in that you will stop thinking in terms of that person of how they wronged you and they owe you. The same with other person who is still living. A true, deep forgiveness is neither easy nor glib but ultimately very beneficial.

Fawn,

Thanks so much for the Joan Borysenko quote. I'll have to check her out. In my personal experience, I've found that I can't forgive anyone else unless and until I can clearly see my own part in the situation and forgive myself. This is even in the case of an abusive parent; to clearly see that I was a child and not responsible was necessary for me before I could start the process of opening up forgiveness for my parent. From inside the crucible of child abuse, the victim carries enormous guilt...which can look like rage (when turned outward) or withdrawal/depression (when turned inward). Either way, I had to forgive ME first.

Forgiveness is about tidying up personal relationships: perhaps that's why the OP posted in Organization! Works for me....

Leslie

OMG - you've hit on one of my new-age pet peeves, the notion that forgiveness is voluntary.

We're constantly being exhorted to forgive others so that we can move on. But it's not up to us individually. Love can't be forced, and neither can forgiveness. If you wake up one day and realize you're not hurting about the situation anymore, you might be on the path of forgiveness. But it has to happen on its own - if it ever happens.

The ability to will yourself to forgive requires superhuman strength. I ALWAYS suspect people who claim to have done it. Many many many people are fooling themselves around this, because they have a need to feel that they are fundamentally nice people who don't (God forbid) hold grudges. My thinking around this is TOTALLY opposite. Hold the darn grudge, if that's what you want to do! Why deny anger? I've never understood this anger-must-be-denied-at-all-costs thing. I recently stopped working with a feel-good therapist who simply could not deal with my anger. And he really hated it. And he just couldn't get why I was unable to snap out of my rage fog and just forgive people, move on, etc. etc.

The thing is, it IS hard to forgive. That's one of the things that was so remarkable about Christ, for instance. Sure, HE modeled forgiveness, but are mere mortals really expected to be able to do the same thing? It's as hard to forgive when you're not ready, as it is to turn water into wine!

So - you might wait for forgiveness, or even pray for it. But my question is - why do it? And why worry? You feel how you feel. Strong emotions last a long time. Some things we will be unable to forgive. And that's part of what makes us human. :)

Wow, I really appreciate the input of all of you on this! I never imagined there where so many ways of looking at forgiveness. I'm going to have to think about it.

I did put this item in Organization for the reason Leslie already pointed out: this was about tidying up personal relationships.

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Originally Posted by kitten

OMG - you've hit on one of my new-age pet peeves, the notion that forgiveness is voluntary.

We're constantly being exhorted to forgive others so that we can move on. But it's not up to us individually. Love can't be forced, and neither can forgiveness. If you wake up one day and realize you're not hurting about the situation anymore, you might be on the path of forgiveness. But it has to happen on its own - if it ever happens..

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I disagree--somewhat. For me not forgiving someone is a thought in my head, and if I dwell on it and feed it, it does not go away and may even get worse. Meditating on forgiveness, what that looks and feels like, how that idea would give me feelings of peace, is one way to move toward forgiveness.

I agree with you that feelings are feelings and we feel what we feel, but if those feelings are destructive enough to our lives we'd better be examining them to find the truth within them and to move on. And, I think that's part of forgiving--recognize that someone hurt you, our hurt is real, honor it. Then move past it.

realize that you need to get on with YOUR life, not dwell on the past. And, this dies not mean you have to meet with the person because they have already moved on and it won't mean anything to them. I have co-worker who held a grudge against his ex-wife who had no idea that he was so unforgiving. He spent years judging all women by his marriage with her, meanwhile she had been happily married for years. Just snap out of it.

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Originally Posted by Tenngal

realize that you need to get on with YOUR life, not dwell on the past. And, this dies not mean you have to meet with the person because they have already moved on and it won't mean anything to them. I have co-worker who held a grudge against his ex-wife who had no idea that he was so unforgiving. He spent years judging all women by his marriage with her, meanwhile she had been happily married for years. Just snap out of it.

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....she probably had some idea, which is likely why they are divorced......

kitten--forgiveness is voluntary. And damn hard work. It will not happen on it's own. And people who have been wounded feel what they feel, and have a right to their anger. But sometimes, they are ready to lay it down and have no idea how to do so.

My .02.

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Originally Posted by kitten

Why deny anger? I've never understood this anger-must-be-denied-at-all-costs thing. I recently stopped working with a feel-good therapist who simply could not deal with my anger. And he really hated it. And he just couldn't get why I was unable to snap out of my rage fog and just forgive people, move on, etc. etc.

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Here's my .02 and touching a bit on the role of anger in forgiveness. I personally think that anger is a huge component of forgiveness and is an important stage to go through so you can reach the point where you can truly forgive. Let's face it, we are human and it's simply unrealistic to expect ourselves and others to simply forgive a wrong all the while pretending that the anger doesn't exist or to simply will it away. It needs to be acknowledged so it can be dealt with. It can be a healthy thing to experience, not something that has to be avoided at all costs.

Eva Kor is a Holocaust survivor, and a survivor of Dr. Mengele's experiments, which ultimately killed her sister. She has a Forgiveness Project that will blow your mind. I saw a documentary about her, it is will motivate anyone towards this self-insight of forgiveness, which is for oneself. I corresponded with her awhile ago, and she's pretty remarkable.
http://theforgivenessproject.com/sto...va-kor-poland/

Interesting link, Redfox :)

It struck me that Eva mentions that other survivors have said they resent her focus on forgiveness. These people apparently feel that forgiving what happened in the camps constitutes a dismissal of the horrors so many endured. I see their point - keeping anger alive, for them, is a variation on "never forget." For many Jews, that's a political stance, and it seems Eva is trying to steer clear of that imbroglio. She's not saying Jews shouldn't be Nazi hunters, but she's not personally obsessed with finding justice in that way.

She might be conflating anger with revenge. I think about this a lot. I'm really angry at my parents, but even if they were alive, I don't think I'd be plotting revenge. They'd be old and infirm, and I'd be obsessed with taking care of them, not getting my revenge on them. But I always wished they had understood what they were doing to me, and how damaging their thoughtlessness was. I always craved their understanding.

I imagine some people do want revenge. But forgiveness and revenge are just two places on the spectrum of possible reactions to betrayal - there's a lot in between!

Good link!

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Originally Posted by redfox

Eva Kor is a Holocaust survivor, and a survivor of Dr. Mengele's experiments, which ultimately killed her sister. She has a Forgiveness Project that will blow your mind. I saw a documentary about her, it is will motivate anyone towards this self-insight of forgiveness, which is for oneself. I corresponded with her awhile ago, and she's pretty remarkable.
http://theforgivenessproject.com/sto...va-kor-poland/

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Sorry for getting back so late. I had to think about this for a longer time than I had imagined. Forgiveness in itself is just as strong as the fear (or anger) that comes with it. I was bitten by a dog one day. I was riding my bike and the animal appeared from nowhere, bit me in my buttocks. I didn't dare to drive on that road for weeks after. Until I realized that because of what happened I was afraid now. That it would happen again. That made me angry. No dog was going to take away the pleasure I had while riding my bike.
In my case it was fear that prevented me to move on. And I realized that after reading redfox's post about Eva Kor. Because: is forgiveness not only realizing someone put fear in you? Or anger? By not allowing other to make you afraid you make the next step to moving on. And for me that is forgiveness. So, forgiving someone else doesn't make sense, it is a mirror to your soul, in your personality and facing what makes you angry (what would happen if the dog would show up again? Well, I could taser him. Or buy a water gun so I could defend myself. Or I could go find the owner and make him pay for the thetanus shot) so you prepare yourself how to act. Forgiveness is a learning experience in steps.

These are the thoughts I had about this. Hopefully someone has a different view on it but I think I've come close. Thanks everybody!

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Originally Posted by kitten

She might be conflating anger with revenge. I think about this a lot. I'm really angry at my parents, but even if they were alive, I don't think I'd be plotting revenge. They'd be old and infirm, and I'd be obsessed with taking care of them, not getting my revenge on them. But I always wished they had understood what they were doing to me, and how damaging their thoughtlessness was. I always craved their understanding.

I imagine some people do want revenge. But forgiveness and revenge are just two places on the spectrum of possible reactions to betrayal - there's a lot in between!

Good link!

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Kitten, just as there is a continuum between revenge and forgiveness, there is also a continuum between forgiveness and reconciliation. You can forgive people without being reconciled to them. Forgiveness is unilateral, reconciliation is not. Since it sounds like your parents are gone, you will never be reconciled with them, but I do believe you can forgive them, if only for your own peace of mind and well being.

when I am ready to forgive; which can take a long time, I really really try to see things from the other person's perspective and realize they did the best they could at the time, given who they are and what was going on in their life.

Like a relative; a drunk, a rager, etc. What is the point of NOT forgiving him. He was messed up, emotionally broken and such a sad case. He can never affect me again. At some point in his life he was a little kid going through a really hard time and got wrecked himself. So he only knew how to rage and wreck and never evolved past that.

So I let go of it. That is how it works for me, but everyone is different.