Altruism anyone?
Printable View
Altruism anyone?
Why wouldn’t I get a booster shot the minute it’s approved and available?
Probably in the next week or so as my agency issues.
The World Health Organization is saying to wait until everyone worldwide has access to an initial vaccine.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
People are starving in Africa today, but the peach sitting on my counter isn't going to help them. So I'm going to eat it tonight, cut up and served over ice creamQuote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Poor analogy. Vaccines can be and have been sent to other countries without rotting.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
My vaccine is already sitting on a shelf at the station. I'm curious, logistics-wise, how it would get sent to some other nation and put into the arm of someone who needed it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
I'm also curious how to get it into the arms of the local anti-vaxxers, that's another problem.
But I'm certainly not going to decline it when our medical director says "you need to get it now", which will be quite shortly, as my initial cycle was in January.
*IF* vaccines start to lose their effectiveness against hospitalizations and death (they are declining against disease) we should refuse to get booster because: well guess it's my time to go to the hospital with this thing now?
Since you don't think the disease is serious anyway, what can your altruism even mean? I mean you don't even see getting covid as a problem right, so what exactly are you sacrificing in your mind? The ability to remain maskless? A sick day?
I'll get one when it's available. Being a martyr is not my thing.
Let's say a vaccine loses 10% of its effectiveness over the course of a year.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore
If you have a billion doses you can
1) Give boosters to everyone in First World countries increasing their effectiveness from 85% to 95% and leave 1 billion people elsewhere unvaccinated with 0% protection
Or
2) Leave the First World people 85% protected and give 1 billion doses to other people giving them 95% protection
Given that our government refuses to stop international travel, which scenario do you think will better protect you against current and future variants, including ones current vaccines may be 0% effective against?
Delta originated in India, other variants in Brazil and South Africa.
Send $10 to "Nothing But Nets" and save two lives. You can do this right this minute, for the cost of a visit to Starbucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
https://nothingbutnets.net/
I don't go to Starbucks. Nobody I know does.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
What if it loses 90% of it's effectiveness in a year? But I pulled 90% from nowhere? Right, but 10% is from actual estimates I've seen is too low, Pfizer estimated a 6% decline in effectiveness every 2 months, but this is mostly disease which can be a bad case, but hospitalizations and deaths I think there is a lot of uncertainty.
Glad I got Moderna.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore
Until you can walk the walk, your talk is just squack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
I just spent the afternoon finding and rescuing an injured person on the mountain here. Go peddle your faux-altruism somewhere else.
Oh we know you're a hero. You tell us all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
Isn't it interesting that to some heroes are always first responders or people in the military, or those who survived cancer or some other serious illness? What a narrow vision. It makes watching the local news a little annoying. Why isn't the civil rights activist or the anti-war protestor or the teacher who's not terminally ill or the woman standing out in public today in Kabul with a sign demanding her rights a hero?
And just because I don't want to donate to your pet charity doesn't mean squat. I am altruistic in other ways.
Yes, we have all seen your remarkable level of empathy and concern for others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Doctors in the thick of it seem less convinced than Pharma is that boosters are necessary, unless you are immune-compromised, or as one said--"oldest-old"--over 80. Out of curiosity, I'd want to have my blood titered if that weren't impractical. At any rate, eight months out from my jab would be about February, which gives me plenty of time to reflect on the state of COVID. So I'm in the same camp as ANM, which isn't an answer on the poll. If I were at high risk for infection, I might be more concerned.
Israel is beginning to give the 3rd shot to those over 60.
You’re also staying close to home. And everything I’ve read is that the J&J shot gets better over time. All the talk about immunity from the vaccines waning seems to be based on the mRNA shots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane v2.0
So when we were being told that masks don't protect you, only those around you, did you wear one or did you say I'm not going to be a martyr?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Speaking for myself, I ordered masks in February before they were generally available. I've gotten better-designed models since, but my cheap stretchy ones fit close to my face and are good mask liners. I never bought the original anti-mask advice. I remember hearing an Asian doctor asked what made the difference in transmission between the U.S. and countries in Asia, and he answered "masks." I believed him.
Well, I believe masks protect me. Perfectly? No. Vaccines provide better protection and even that falls short of perfect. But some? Yes.
I bought the initial anti-mask advice in March 2020, in early March I would roll my eyes at people in the supermarket wearing masks. Although my bf was wearing masks earlier on than I was, he was wearing them by March 19th 2020. I argued "it's not advised". He replied "I think they are lying because there is a shortage". Next week we went into lockdown here. By April 2020 I too was wearing masks and advice had shifted. People underestimate how fast it shifted, before the pandemic was even widespread beyond the initial outbreak locations.
And so people contemplating a 3rd vaccine before it's recommended, I don't know what to say. "it's not advised". But maybe they are lying because, well there isn't actually a shortage right now here, globally yes but, so that's not it, but maybe they are still trying to convinced people who still never got a first vaccine or something. All reading between the lines, trying to guess at what is really going on etc.. Because how do you know that something is a lie? It comes out of a government official's mouth? That's kind of where we are with the coronavirus.
I didn't do the poll because there was no option for "Most likely, but not sure when."
I'm waiting to see more data.
I am definitely in the wait and see camp since I got my last one in late May. Living with a rabid anti-vaxxer, it took me great guts to get the first two. Now he says this is just a ploy to make more money for drug companies. Oy...
Let's not...Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Wish you would just quit this nonsense.
You like to argue just for the sake of argument.
I like the interchange of ideas and scenarios. This issue raises very real considerations with global implications. If you like shallow sound bites you can add me to your ignore list.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...months/619789/
1) I don't like to put stuff in my body for NO reason either. I'm vaxed, I'm vaxed with two shots. I'm not anti-medicine either. But how good is the evidence that a 3rd dose is needed?
2) Much is evolving information. However, the authorities (and the media too) will also LIE to us for whatever reasons. Noble sounding reasons like protecting masks for healthcare workers or vaccines for the 3rd world. Propaganda reasons like avoiding panic or trying to convince the recalcitrant to get a first vaccine (why masks went away before it was possible for many to be fully vaxxed). Sleazy self-interested reason like their political popularity or the economy or the stock market. Their "noble" lies upped the game, what's real, what's not? What a tangled web we weave. I feel tangled up in Knots by R.D. Laing. It reminds me of that. "I respect Jack because he does not respect me. Only a despicable person can respect someone as despicable as me. Since I love Jack, I cannot believe he loves me. What proof can he give?"
3) From the Atlantic article:
So they argue for ADVOCATING, not for refusing a vaccine itself, which may make no difference at all, but advocating. Never admitting of course, because noone ever does, that most of us lack any real power in the political system to advocate for much of anything. When was the last time anyone in power cared at all what you thought? But whatever if yeppej wants to write their congressperson ... The problem is as little as our politicians care about voters, they care EVEN LESS about the rest of the world, which can't vote in our elections.Quote:
Vaccines that are already available and being manufactured here in the United States are not going to be rerouted to global markets right now,” Schwartz said. Even so, healthy, young Americans clamoring for bonus shots is far from the most pandemic-thwarting use of resources. Esther Choo, a professor of emergency medicine at Oregon Health and Science University, recommended that fully vaccinated, non-immunocompromised people who are concerned about their own safety spend their energy advocating for vaccine equity worldwide, which will ultimately protect them too.
Oddly, my non-vaccinated husband doesn’t mind that I get the vax because he thinks I’m in more danger from the Covid virus than he is. I think that too. His blood pressure, heart, weight, lungs, overall health is good. He has a 34 inch waist. My co-morbidities are several. My waist is not 34 inches.Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkytoe
In other news: I know the first person who is vaccinated who died of Covid. He was 90 years old.
Today I judged the flower Show at the Missouri State fair and there was way too much intermingling of people’s breath. Ugh. We had student judges on our judging team plus an extra judge so five people were huddled over each exhibit. Sometimes I wear my mask and sometimes I didn’t when I had to take it off to make a point. And then we stupidly went to an indoor restaurant for lunch that was serving 200 people. That was optional. The flower show – I had to be there and I had to do that judging work. But we didn’t need it do lunch in the giant super spreader hall of pork.
So I’m gonna stay home and take my temperature for the next 10 days because if I avoided the virus in this ridiculous spreader event I am lucky!!!
Last week I Judged at the Illinois state fair but that was far less crowded and my judging team all wore masks all the time and that was not something that worries me.
One way to effect change is for everyone to say I won't get a booster until everyone gets a first dose.
Canada tried a variation of this albeit not with a booster - no one got a second dose until everyone had a first dose who wanted one. So there was a lag of much more than 3 or 4 weeks between doses. This is also one reason for the delay in opening the border with the US.
Think of the men who could have gotten in lifeboats but said no, take the more vulnerable women and children first. Maybe altruism went down with the Titanic. Because someone with no protection against the vaccine is much more vulnerable than someone with waning protection.
i believe I AM doing society a favor by getting a 3rd vaccine when available Because I will be one of those people who is on a respirator. I’m saving that resource for someone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
And what if vaccines decrease a significant amount in effectiveness against serious outcomes? Are we going to shut things down again? Why not? If we don't want to rely on vaccines ... which is the way out, we need other measures right like social distancing, masks, shut downs. An effective treatment would be nice, of course, and is theoretically a way out too of course, but we don't seem to be there yet.
But it's very unclear how much they are decreasing in effectiveness against serious outcomes how fast.
These are not real considerations and will NEVER happen..... totally redundant. So, let's not ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Not going to happen ... another redundancy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Haven't seen it yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
A variation of it happened in Canada.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
The World Health Organization is advocating for it.
Given that more serious variants that no vaccine could protect against would arise most readily in countries with large unvaccinated populations (as Delta did in India) that's a real concern. Of course poor countries can't pay what pharmaceutical companies want to charge, whereas Americans or Uncle Sam on their behalf will pay for boosters every 8 months ad infinitum.
I totally agree with you IL.
I was raised on Matthew 6:3-5.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...-5&version=NIV
I wonder how you were raised.
No it didn't happen.... The cumulative percent of people who have received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine in Canada was 71.43%, as of August 7, 2021. That is not even close to everyone. It is not going to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
I think if you had the means the world WOULD hear about it. You keep bragging about how altruistic you are ... Which is not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej