parent's estate

My mom's estate seems to be winding down, with the last thing in an IRS refund. Even though we filed that we were done, it takes another year past the date we file until it will be formally closed--that was unexpected and annoying, as I thought it would be closed when everything was completed, but no.

If anyone is in charge of their parent's finances or helping, or if anyone is an executor, make sure you check the unclaimed funds for every state where they've been living. We waited about six months for one state to pay out the bank account that had gone to unclaimed funds. It took four years to get Wells Fargo to pay an account in my dad's name, and those two things probably put us back a year with mom's. We are at two years now.

I still have nightmares about their house, where I am trying to reclaim things from the house, but maybe those will go away soon. I have a lot of sadness about the past few years, but I did a good job for mom and dad, so that's a comfort.

I think if I were asked to do this again, I would not do it unless it was for my husband or one of the kids. I would not do it if there was conflict between any of the parties.

On the other hand, doing it oneself is better than blindly trusting the lawyers, as ours were not great. So it was better to not be passively waiting for them to make mistakes.

I found my dad's ledger books from both of my grandparents when he was their executor. I've got mine and I boxed them up in the attic. I'll keep the boxes for a while, and go through them again in a year or so when it is finally closed. I have been getting rid of things as we progressed--down from about five boxes to one and a half.

Wow.. this has been a long journey for you, and I know it had a lot of ups and downs (mostly downs). I hope that this final part of the journey goes by quickly and quietly.

It's a lesson for we parents to do whatever we can to make it easy on our kids, even if that includes dying broke, like my mother did.

ETA: I do think about the fact that I am so hell-bent on passing along our house to all 4 kids, but then I think about all the possibilities for discord... what if someone wants to cash out. What if two want to add a screened porch and two don't? All those kinds of things, which again, makes me feel that my mother having to sell my great-aunt's beach cottage was a blessing in disguise, althought I certainly couldnl't see that then.

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Originally Posted by catherine

Wow.. this has been a long journey for you, and I know it had a lot of ups and downs (mostly downs). I hope that this final part of the journey goes by quickly and quietly.

It's a lesson for we parents to do whatever we can to make it easy on our kids, even if that includes dying broke, like my mother did.

ETA: I do think about the fact that I am so hell-bent on passing along our house to all 4 kids, but then I think about all the possibilities for discord... what if someone wants to cash out. What if two want to add a screened porch and two don't? All those kinds of things, which again, makes me feel that my mother having to sell my great-aunt's beach cottage was a blessing in disguise, althought I certainly couldnl't see that then.

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I think it would be a good idea to talk to a "cottage law" lawfirm--they had them in Michigan, and I'm sure they have them there. Here's a book that might help:

Saving the Family Cottage: Creative Ways to Preserve Your Cottage, Cabin, Camp, or Vacation Home for Future Generations: Hollander Attorney, Stuart J., Hollander, Rose, O'Connell Attorney, Ann: 9781413328264: Amazon.com: Books

It might work? I don't know; my mom wanted to give me the house and make it up to the siblings with more money. But that did not happen. It's really hard with four kids and one house. I just don't know. I dream about the house a lot; it kind of haunts me, actually. Worst of all, she planted a beautiful forest, and all the trees are very large now--acres and acres. And her grandchildren and great grandchildren will never even see it.

Maybe that book has some good ideas? I was so relieved when my granddad's property sold--ownership with four other people was not something I looked forward to at all, and I felt really uncomfortable with some of the things that were happening.

Wow, that looks like a great book! I'll have to check it out. One of my daughters-in-law's family has a cabin on a lake in the Adirondacks. She represents the third generation to share it, and she comes from a big Catholic French-Canadian family. They have done a great job managing it and sharing it together. So I've been asking her about how they do it. They recently formed an LLC, for instance.

In my case, we are building a "compound" of sorts.. We have the 22-ft camper that my DD/DSIL own completely at this point. It's off-limits to eveyone else (except for DH and I). So, my other DS/DDIL decided to invest in a we-shed (I just made that up--like a she-shed for a couple). They are paying ~5k for an 8x12 Amish shed that they'll use as a sleeping/sitting space when they're up here, which is almost every weekend.

Thankfully DS#3&4 aren't up here nearly as much. But once DH and I are gone and they all own it.... >8)

Tybee, glad that it’s winding down.

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It's a lesson for we parents to do whatever we can to make it easy on our kids,

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Yes. So many things we need to do estate-wise but getting DH on board is almost impossible. He avoids things that he doesn't want to deal with as if they will go away. I would feel such a sense of peace if it were all in order.

You have my extreme sympathy. A few years ago I had to do this for my MIL and FIL, and it was a horrorshow.

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Originally Posted by pinkytoe

Yes. So many things we need to do estate-wise but getting DH on board is almost impossible. He avoids things that he doesn't want to deal with as if they will go away. I would feel such a sense of peace if it were all in order.

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One thing that you could do though is make your own will. At least YOUR wishes would be known, and YOUR assets described for disposal. But maybe you already have a will, I don’t know. Are you talking about things that go beyond a will?

We have ten yr old wills, POAs, etc. I am thinking about all the various accounts at Vanguard and also having end of life plans.

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Originally Posted by pinkytoe

We have ten yr old wills, POAs, etc. I am thinking about all the various accounts at Vanguard and also having end of life plans.

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Do all the accounts at Vanguard have beneficiaries? That's easy to check, and they will not be part of the estate and will go automatically to the beneficiaries. If you set it up correctly you might not have to go through probate at all that way.

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Originally Posted by catherine

Wow, that looks like a great book! I'll have to check it out. One of my daughters-in-law's family has a cabin on a lake in the Adirondacks. She represents the third generation to share it, and she comes from a big Catholic French-Canadian family. They have done a great job managing it and sharing it together. So I've been asking her about how they do it. They recently formed an LLC, for instance.

In my case, we are building a "compound" of sorts.. We have the 22-ft camper that my DD/DSIL own completely at this point. It's off-limits to eveyone else (except for DH and I). So, my other DS/DDIL decided to invest in a we-shed (I just made that up--like a she-shed for a couple). They are paying ~5k for an 8x12 Amish shed that they'll use as a sleeping/sitting space when they're up here, which is almost every weekend.

Thankfully DS#3&4 aren't up here nearly as much. But once DH and I are gone and they all own it.... >8)

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That is amazing that they have had the cabin in their family for three generations--definitely get her input on what they do!
I was looking at that book and I guess that guy coined the term "cottage law" and was from Michigan--there used to be an advertising trailer in the movie house where we went to in Suttons Bay and that might have been the lawfirm I was thinking about. The ad made you really want to have a cottage and to keep it in your family--very effective!

Here's another source:
The Family Cottage - Rosi & Gardner, P.C.

Finished! Now to figure out what paperwork to keep and what to burn, and how long I have to keep it.

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Originally Posted by Tybee

Finished! Now to figure out what paperwork to keep and what to burn, and how long I have to keep it.

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Congratulatoins! It must feel great to get to this point.

BTW, I never the information you left in the last post--thanks! That's helpful. My lawyer son has been getting on our case to get those wheels in motion.

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Originally Posted by catherine

Congratulatoins! It must feel great to get to this point.

BTW, I never the information you left in the last post--thanks! That's helpful. My lawyer son has been getting on our case to get those wheels in motion.

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Michigan was great for that kind of lawyer--hope it helps.

I am going through files right now and yes, it feels somewhat great, but it's revisiting old wounds, so that's not so great. Apparently I have to keep most of what I have in the box, so my hopes of burning everything today were premature.

I guess certain states do have specialties of cottage law. I bet Minnesota has its share of cottage law attorneys as well because it’s the land of 10,000 lakes and everyone in Minnesota has a cabin.

Farm law is big in Iowa, so our CPA has a specialty in farm taxes but he charged exorbitant rates for preparing taxes on the family farm in which we have ownership, thousands for it. So my brother-in-law took over that job.

I wish the damn farm was was out of our lives. It generated a whopping $3000 in income in 2025. This income was against a value of $350,000. A 1% return is not exactly good.

Would any of the siblings want to buy him out? Would he be happy selling it to them?

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Originally Posted by catherine

Congratulatoins! It must feel great to get to this point.

BTW, I never the information you left in the last post--thanks! That's helpful. My lawyer son has been getting on our case to get those wheels in motion.

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Is he local to you? If so, can he find someone in Burlington who specializes in this?

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Originally Posted by Tybee

Would any of the siblings want to buy him out? Would he be happy selling it to them?

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Are you talking to me?

,uhhh, no, siblings are not gonna give us $350,000. They don’t want the farm, they hung onto it mainly to provide a farm for their little brother to work, and he’s now dead. And now there’s drama about his son, his second wife, and his share of the farm— oh joy.

There are some shoes that could drop in the next year before this thing is sold. It is the plan to sell the entire farm in a year. We shall see if that comes to pass. Anyone in the chain of ownership who becomes incapacitated or dies will put yet another road block into Management and sale.

Yes, I was talking to you.

That is really complicated. The problem with passing on real estate is that it just gets more and more complicated as time passes, instead of less and less.

Tybee, I feel your pain. Take comfort that it's nearing the end. But of course, you'll have to keep all the records for about 7 years.

In 2020 during COVID, my mom's cousin passed away and I was his executor. He owned a house full of stuff, a garage full of tools, tractors, anything and everything, lots of investments, and an unsellable property in VT. It was all made more difficult because a lot of offices were closed due to the pandemic. Had I known what was involved in being an executor when he asked me if I would do it, I would have agreed IF I could help him declutter his home and get rid of the land in VT. It all eventually got done, but I was still receiving paperwork in 2023.

In April 2024 my mom unexpectedly passed away. My dad was her executor, but being 92, I did all the necessary paper and legal work for him. In Sept. of that year my sister passed away. She was living on her own in OR, was bankrupt, and died without a will. I wasn't able to go out there (I'm in NJ) as I was still working and taking care of my dad but luckily her bankruptcy attorney offered to be the estate representative. Since she was in such debt, her home and everything in it was taken over by the bank. I have no idea what happened to her belongings; there were just a few photos and mementos I would have liked, but I'm grateful that I didn't have to deal with another estate, especially in a different state.

In 2025 my dad passed away. Now I'm a pro at this executor stuff. But what I thought would be simple turned out more involved when I found out he owned MetLife stock. Getting a Medallion Signature Guarantee from my bank was complicated and difficult. Because of this payout, I'll have to file the estate tax return next year too, so that's not over yet. This year I filed eight tax returns!

I'm looking forward to the day when I only have to store my own tax records (personal and trust). I'm fortunate that my cousin invested well, leaving it all to my sister and I (which all belongs to me now). My dad transferred the deed to our condo to my name two weeks before he died, so I'm now financially quite comfortable, retired with a nice home and no money worries. However, I am alone with none of my immediate family members. I'm extremely grateful to be in this situation, but don't have anyone to be executor for me or to leave anything to. Investments will go to animal charities, but the condo and personal belongings....someone will have to deal with all of it.

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Originally Posted by Tybee

Would any of the siblings want to buy him out? Would he be happy selling it to them?

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I want to add since I like picking the scab: several years ago when the farm first came into the hands of DH and his siblings, one of the siblings wanted out. Oh, but the other siblings had to hang onto this farm because daddy wanted! Daddy‘s wishes! Family farm! Little brother! These are all emotional reasons.

But none of them were willing to pony up the money to buy out the one sibling who wanted out. So we had to divide the farm with her portion going to her so she could sell it. And that action reduced the overall value of the property. So, they wanted the farm as long as it didn’t personally cost them anything

You can’t take a clean slice of land out of a whole pie and have the remaining whole be exactly the same value per acre.

By my reckoning these emotional decisions towards this financial asset have cost well over $1 million in the 7+ years the siblings have owned the asset. Brilliant financial management…Not.

on the plus side, DH’s sister and her husband who are managing it all are trustworthy, transparent, and not stupid. so I don’t worry about the decisions they make as far as taxes, renting the farm, etc. and it is their time spent doing this and not mine so I’m not gonna complain about their micro decisions.

So, IL, why does the family want to keep it? I can't remember if anyone is into farming. Does it have any value for the family other than "daddy wants it?" Do people go there for recreation? Does anyone maintain the farm, or is it growing wild? Just curious, as I think about the possible pitfalls of leaving this tiny house to 4 children and 5 grandchildren. I have my own reasons for wanting to be like your DH's father, but I also don't want MY emotions to drive impractical decisions that have no relevance for my children and grandchildren.

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Originally Posted by catherine

So, IL, why does the family want to keep it? I can't remember if anyone is into farming. Does it have any value for the family other than "daddy wants it?" Do people go there for recreation? Does anyone maintain the farm, or is it growing wild? Just curious, as I think about the possible pitfalls of leaving this tiny house to 4 children and 5 grandchildren. I have my own reasons for wanting to be like your DH's father, but I also don't want MY emotions to drive impractical decisions that have no relevance for my children and grandchildren.

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they wanted to keep it for emo reasons.

It is agricultural land that is rented out, very expensive Iowa farmland. Land like this does not sit fallow. DH’s share is valued at $350,000.

No, noone goes there. It’s just flat land covered in corn and soybeans. There are no buildings.

But there’s probably a light at the end of the tunnel in a year when certain drama is expected to get sorted out tho my cynical nature expects there to be another drama that replaces the current drama because as we get older, we get sick and die. Shit happens. More drama among the owners

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Originally Posted by catherine

So, IL, why does the family want to keep it? I can't remember if anyone is into farming. Does it have any value for the family other than "daddy wants it?" Do people go there for recreation? Does anyone maintain the farm, or is it growing wild? Just curious, as I think about the possible pitfalls of leaving this tiny house to 4 children and 5 grandchildren. I have my own reasons for wanting to be like your DH's father, but I also don't want MY emotions to drive impractical decisions that have no relevance for my children and grandchildren.

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I firmly believe your best option is to leave your property in a trust that sells it ( if it turns out that you don’t need the funds ) and divides the money among your children and grandchildren as you wish. You are assuming you will not need the resources represented by this, a big assumption.

But since you aren’t going to do that, getting advice from a “cottage law “attorney in the area is a second best choice I guess. You are indeed making an emo decision.

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Originally Posted by pony mom

Tybee, I feel your pain. Take comfort that it's nearing the end. But of course, you'll have to keep all the records for about 7 years.

In 2020 during COVID, my mom's cousin passed away and I was his executor. He owned a house full of stuff, a garage full of tools, tractors, anything and everything, lots of investments, and an unsellable property in VT. It was all made more difficult because a lot of offices were closed due to the pandemic. Had I known what was involved in being an executor when he asked me if I would do it, I would have agreed IF I could help him declutter his home and get rid of the land in VT. It all eventually got done, but I was still receiving paperwork in 2023.

In April 2024 my mom unexpectedly passed away. My dad was her executor, but being 92, I did all the necessary paper and legal work for him. In Sept. of that year my sister passed away. She was living on her own in OR, was bankrupt, and died without a will. I wasn't able to go out there (I'm in NJ) as I was still working and taking care of my dad but luckily her bankruptcy attorney offered to be the estate representative. Since she was in such debt, her home and everything in it was taken over by the bank. I have no idea what happened to her belongings; there were just a few photos and mementos I would have liked, but I'm grateful that I didn't have to deal with another estate, especially in a different state.

In 2025 my dad passed away. Now I'm a pro at this executor stuff. But what I thought would be simple turned out more involved when I found out he owned MetLife stock. Getting a Medallion Signature Guarantee from my bank was complicated and difficult. Because of this payout, I'll have to file the estate tax return next year too, so that's not over yet. This year I filed eight tax returns!

I'm looking forward to the day when I only have to store my own tax records (personal and trust). I'm fortunate that my cousin invested well, leaving it all to my sister and I (which all belongs to me now). My dad transferred the deed to our condo to my name two weeks before he died, so I'm now financially quite comfortable, retired with a nice home and no money worries. However, I am alone with none of my immediate family members. I'm extremely grateful to be in this situation, but don't have anyone to be executor for me or to leave anything to. Investments will go to animal charities, but the condo and personal belongings....someone will have to deal with all of it.

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Oh my goodness, that is a lot of executorship and a lot of tax returns!!! I know all of this was harder during Covid because were in the midst of that when Dad died. Everything was so hard; courts were pretty non functional for a while.

You must feel exhausted after the last six years.

It's too bad we all saw King Lear, or read Jane Smiley's A Thousand Acres, for the Iowa farm version. I'm not a big fan of trusts after seeing one in play in my mom's estate.

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Originally Posted by Tybee

It's too bad we all saw King Lear, or read Jane Smiley's A Thousand Acres, for the Iowa farm version. I'm not a big fan of trusts after seeing one in play in my mom's estate.

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I loved Jane Smiley, I was a big fan decades ago and I haven’t thought about her in years. I liked her very first novel, long before she won the Pulitzer prize. I met her over the copy machine in the library where I worked. A Thousand Acres was decent, but Moo is her novel I like best. It is so funny, and so true to life about the territorial fights between the agriculture and the horticulture departments at mythical Moo U.

DH lived that life on that very college campus, being a student in both agriculture and horticulture departments. I had an autographed copy of Moo but I released it into the wild when I got rid of books years ago.

Why don’t you like trusts? We have a trust, DH and I. The idea is that it avoids probate. and the estate’s assets can be dispensed of more quickly without dragging it through public courts.

My in-laws had a trust and that seemed to work just fine. The current farm problem, as I see it has nothing to do with how the assets were structured.

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

Why don’t you like trusts? We have a trust, DH and I. The idea is that it avoids probate. and the estate’s assets can be dispensed of more quickly without dragging it through public courts.

My in-laws had a trust and that seemed to work just fine. The current farm problem, as I see it has nothing to do with how the assets were structured.

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I'm glad your trust works for you. I get why people do them, and I have also seen where they can lead to unnecessary problems and complications. My personal experience recently was very negative.

I know people do them to avoid probate, but in my experience, probate was better than what was going on with the trust. And if the trust is bad enough, you can end up in probate court anyway to litigate the trust.

But the lawyers are always making money on the trusts, that's for sure. And if you had a really big or complicated estate or a sick or disabled child or adult, then great. Unless you had unscrupulous lawyers or guardians or conservators. I did a lot of reading of probate files that featured my mother's professional guardian--and boy, trusts were not protecting anyone. And these were cases with incapacitated adults who actually needed protection.

IN my state, my aunt's state,and my sil's state, nothing was dragged into the public courts-- all the documents about what they actually had, all numbers, were private and inaccessible to the public.

I looked on reddit to see other people's experiences and the first thing I found was in a lawyer forum, by lawyers, and a lot of what I saw was in there:

Trust happy attorneys make me want to punch someone. : r/Lawyertalk

ETA: Probate provides oversight by the courts. Sometimes, you really, really want the protections provided under the law. As someone said on the thread above, clients would be better off in probate than in these badly written trusts.

Finally, if you put beneficiaries on all your accounts, those monies go directly to your beneficiaries, and those assets are outside of probate. That's how we've set things up. That is faster than dealing with the trust would be, and the lawyers are not charging 300-400 dollars an hour to give people what is rightfully theirs.

Sure , the execution of a trust is like the execution of a will—honest, transparant and competent people need to carry it out to be effective.

Our trust is revocable and is set ip to disburse quickly after we expire. The same people will be administering it that would have administered a will. And we do have a “pour over” will for anything that has escaped the trust.

We do have beneficiaries named in our financial accounts but not on real estate. The thng is—We have ten beneficiaries, some of them charitable organizations, and to leave each of them an equal share in real estate would be a complete nightmare to administer. How would any decisions be made? Impossible.

Naming beneficiaries in transferable assets makes sense if you have just a few beneficiaries like a couple of grown children.

For incapacitated people who are beneficiaries of lifelong trusts, that requires a dedicated and extremely responsible honest person to carry it out. Incapacitated people are extremely vulnerable to all sins of humanity: avarice, lust, greed, etc. i suppose a court would provide some oversight but no judge is going to be hands-on in micro decisions unless that judge is the actual executor.

Tybee,, how did your mother come about to have this guardian since she had several able, adult children
. Isn't that an unusual situation?

Thanks to everyone who posted; it looks like 7 years for almost all of these papers, which is longer than I wanted to keep them, but better safe than sorry. Will give my boxes one more go-over and get rid of anything that doesn't fit the "must keep for taxes" or isn't in the "this is interesting family information to know." I already had something like that pop out yesterday that answered a question I had had about how long my mom worked, at what age she retired, so it was good to get that answer and realize she was about a year older than I was when she retired for good.

okay----i feel your pain, faux. Better hang onto the Family Farm, even if ya hafta buy the spendthrifts out. Because, after all the legal battles, taxes, and everything, all i had left of my bequest was a very, very modest sum. But yeah----i then proceeded ta piss it away on catt & dogg food & old, junk cars & trips to the wreckin' yard! So anyway---how do ya like that for bad mismanagement?

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Originally Posted by littlebittybobby

okay----i feel your pain, faux. Better hang onto the Family Farm, even if ya hafta buy the spendthrifts out. Because, after all the legal battles, taxes, and everything, all i had left of my bequest was a very, very modest sum. But yeah----i then proceeded ta piss it away on catt & dogg food & old, junk cars & trips to the wreckin' yard! So anyway---how do ya like that for bad mismanagement?

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Your saga is preserved on the internet for all to see and is an often cited case. That drama was much like Jarndyce v. Jarndyce, the case in the Dickens novel that drug on for generations and in the end, the attorneys got it all.

okay----soons i get my gummint ss welfare check, im gonna head down ta the mini mart, gas up, get beer, ciggarettes & lottery tickicks. Wish mee luckk. Yup.

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Originally Posted by Tybee

Thanks to everyone who posted; it looks like 7 years for almost all of these papers, which is longer than I wanted to keep them, but better safe than sorry. Will give my boxes one more go-over and get rid of anything that doesn't fit the "must keep for taxes" or isn't in the "this is interesting family information to know." I already had something like that pop out yesterday that answered a question I had had about how long my mom worked, at what age she retired, so it was good to get that answer and realize she was about a year older than I was when she retired for good.

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I've been tempted to shred some of my cousin's estate papers early, but I still have a nagging fear that somehow the IRS will come after me. My accountant has scanned copies of everything I would need, but the fear is still there. Actually, you're supposed to keep it 7 years from the year filed, but one pile is going next year for sure.

My accountant told me that in 2020, the IRS received so many tax returns that they tossed many of them; if you owed, you got lucky. His personal return was probably one of them so we eventually had to refile when I never received his refund. Yet when you're just a bit late with paying them, they're onto you immediately and charging you interest.

Trusts: my cousin set one up for my sister's benefit and I was the trustee. She had bankruptcy problems and was an alcoholic and couldn't be trusted with any money. This made it tricky for me, because he didn't want her to know how much money was in it, or to receive it and waste it. She was on disability and had her cancer treatment covered by the state, so most of her expenses were covered. However, my cousin knew about her debts and stated that the money was not for paying those off. It was tricky for me, not letting her know when the money was available, the amount, etc. For anyone who sets up a trust, be very specific when and why the funds get released, especially if more than one beneficiary is involved. I was lucky that it was only me and her, but money can make people ugly really fast.

I heard of one case where the person became incapacitated and their child went to court and got appointed conservator, then put assets in a trust that only the child controlled, with terms that the child could withhold any money to beneficiaries on the basis of their behavior. So basically hijacked the inheritance and appointed themselves arbiter of who inherited and when. This was not in line with the clearly executed and recorded will that the person had.

families can be very tangled things. My FOO has never been, but we're pretty chill and don't envy what each other has. DH and his brothers had some emotions running high after his father's passing, but there wasn't much to split up so really more an annoyance than anything. the problem was with the BIL family living with FIL at the time of his passing, and they didn't want to move out because "Dad wanted us to have the house!!". Yes, he did - but they were supposed to be PAYING on it, and they did not. Fortunately FIL had all that documented and with a bit of saber-rattling on the part of the estate lawyer and some push from the realter we hired at their request, the house was sold. The realtor went to their church and they actually thought he'd side with them and refuse to list it. Of course he did not, so that embarrassed them as they'd told all their churchy friends that "Dad had moved in with us" - NO, they moved in with HIM and stiffed him for whatever they could get- and soon everyone knew it, they actually changed churches after that. They finally moved out and all was settled. They're still annoyed, 15 years later, but they have never had any money, and there's no way they would/could have made the payments on the home-equity credit line FIL had used for updating the house, let alone the taxes and insurance on it. The house WAS the estate, and we were able to sell it and split the money evenly, so we all got a little something, instead of it all going down the drain. And I'm a small enough person to actually be a tad gleeful about how it turned out, to be honest.