Need y'all's help again; What is True Wealth?

So I'm now working on the 7th chapter of my book.

Chapter 7 is on True Wealth. At this point in the book, I'm ready to cover the "joy in enough".

So I'm so happy to be here "in the choir" for this topic!!

I'm calling it True Wealth, based on Thoreau's quote: "Give me poverty that enjoys true wealth."

So I'm asking you, a body of people who have learned what it means to honor your life energy by living simply...

What does True Wealth mean to you?


I really hope to hear from many of you, because you all have walked the walk here.

Think about it. Make it as long or short as you want.

Thank you!

True wealth in terms of money is being able to buy or donate anything that you want without thinking “can I afford this?”

But core wealth is good health and mental peace.

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

True wealth in terms of money is being able to buy or donate anything that you want without thinking “can I afford this?”

But core wealth is good health and mental peace.

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Ditto!

When I first read Your Money or Your Life in 1999, I thought True Wealth meant freedom from compulsory work. For a long time, that was exactly right.

In that era of my life, True Wealth meant:

- near-total control over my time and energy
- autonomy
- being present with my wife, daughter, and dogs
- not trading life energy for money reflexively
- knowing that time, not money, was the real currency
- escape from the madding crowd

But decades later, I see that was only the surface.

After years of prudent stewardship and growth of my capital base, True Wealth now means something deeper to me:

- My decisions are driven by clarity of value, not fear of loss
- I have enough margin to live deliberately rather than defensively
- I can improve my daily life without moral drama
- I can reduce friction instead of postponing comfort in the name of optimization
- Money serves life, rather than being guarded from it
- I have the time, energy, health, human connections, and capital resources to engage in projects that benefit society without fear
- I trust that the systems I built for capital management have done their job and will continue doing so with low risk

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Originally Posted by bae

When I first read Your Money or Your Life in 1999, I thought True Wealth meant freedom from compulsory work. For a long time, that was exactly right.

In that era of my life, True Wealth meant:

- near-total control over my time and energy
- autonomy
- being present with my wife, daughter, and dogs
- not trading life energy for money reflexively
- knowing that time, not money, was the real currency
- escape from the madding crowd

But decades later, I see that was only the surface.

After years of prudent stewardship and growth of my capital base, True Wealth now means something deeper to me:

- My decisions are driven by clarity of value, not fear of loss
- I have enough margin to live deliberately rather than defensively
- I can improve my daily life without moral drama
- I can reduce friction instead of postponing comfort in the name of optimization
- Money serves life, rather than being guarded from it
- I have the time, energy, health, human connections, and capital resources to engage in projects that benefit society without fear
- I trust that the systems I built for capital management have done their job and will continue doing so with low risk

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What an excellent list!

Beyond the “core wealth” items I mentioned, health and mental peace, bae’s list reminds me that having a life full of interesting things things to do, achievements to reach for, makes for a rich life. and by “achievements “here I don’t mean necessarily getting something practical done, it could mean traveling down the Mekong River.

I think the “moral drama “freedom is touched on by my core wealth attribute of “mental peace.”

Yes, thanks to both of you for weighing in.

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Money serves life, rather than being guarded from it

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bae, interesting idea--how and when does that radical pivot happen? Is it a certain amount of money? Is it a point in life?

iris, with regard to a rich life filled with achievements--what role does "money wealth" play and what part does "core wealth" play?

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Originally Posted by catherine

bae, interesting idea--how and when does that radical pivot happen? Is it a certain amount of money? Is it a point in life?

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All of the above. In the beginning, this was new to me, and scary, and at the age of 36 I had a 60 year time horizon that my assets had to endure. I also had a 2 year old kid, a wife, a mother to support, and two Basset Hounds.

From 1999 to today, my time horizon shrunk, my confidence in the financial model grew, and the natural changes in lifestyle that happen with aging reduced my concern of "running out of $$$ and eating cat food while living under a bridge" considerably.

I see that as opened ended. As it's that time of the year, my accountant is totally invested in equities, which is contrary to my conservative theory. His defense is that he could lose it all and still be able to live on social security. And he's over 70, likes his work, has no plan to retire. That's a good verion of wealth, but not necessarily mine. I assume YMOYL gets into the true meaning of money, but wealth is about friends and family, being able to peruse some sort of self actualization, health, and security. I could go along with Manslow's hierarchy of needs, but personally have always liked Picasso's quote, "I'd like to live as a poor man with lots of money".

I agree with what others have stated. My opinion is that, yes, there are many different kinds of wealth - or things that can be considered "wealth". However, without financial/monetary wealth in hand, it is hard to keep focus on some of these other types of wealth. When you (generic "you") don't have the financial assets to simply live at a basic or even modest level, one's focus remains primarily on the financial wealth - or lack thereof. As bae states, one tends to live more defensively rather than deliberately. (I do like the way you put this, bae!)

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Originally Posted by catherine

Yes, thanks to both of you for weighing in.



bae, interesting idea--how and when does that radical pivot happen? Is it a certain amount of money? Is it a point in life?

iris, with regard to a rich life filled with achievements--what role does "money wealth" play and what part does "core wealth" play?

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Core wealth, health and mental peace, is more important. A lot of core wealth, and only a little bit of money wealth is a good thing. The reverse, not such a good thing.

Of course, all this is from my point of view here in the safety and security of the United States. Here in our easy lives we can debate these concepts.

If I was living in war torn countries or under threat of government intimidation and violence, I don’t actually know which would be better.

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

Core wealth, health and mental peace, is more important. A lot of core wealth, and only a little bit of money wealth is a good thing. The reverse, not such a good thing.

Of course, all this is from my point of view here in the safety and security of the United States. Here in our easy lives we can debate these concepts.

If I was living in war torn countries or under threat of government intimidation and violence, I don’t actually know which would be better.

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Parts of our country are feeling this effect! It is not at all safe and secure here. This does invade one’s “mental peace” for now and, possibly, the future. So in some respects our “wealth” is compromised!

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Originally Posted by frugal-one

Parts of our country are feeling this effect! It is not at all safe and secure here. This does invade one’s “mental peace” for now and, possibly, the future. So in some respects our “wealth” is compromised!

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Mine is not compromised.

I knew people who lived 1000 miles from Manhattan after the twin towers fiasco who lost their mental peace and were fearful of going into any high-rise building.

Our fears are feelings, they are not facts. That doesn’t mean they should not be respected because they should be. Cue up the book “the gift of fear.” But these feelings should not be sole determinants of actions.

you would like what Senator Rand Paul had to say about Homeland Security. He’s very unhappy with ICE activity, and he spoke strongly against Congressional increase of funding Homeland Security months ago because he said it would give them lots of power to do some of the things they are doing now.

Rand is the only politician I give money to.

But congratulations on turning this into a thread about Donald J Trump. I was thinking more of Afghanistan, where women are beaten and jailed for making the mistake of revealing an arm or hairline when they’re in public. The Iranian student protesters. Etc.,

This conversation reminds me of a movie I really liked, the movie about the Klimt painting, Woman in Gold, about Maria Altmann fighting the Austrian government to get her family's painting back. That is off topic from the original question, but it does relate a bit because it talks about the intersection of transitory human experience and the tides of history. Really good movie with Helen Mirren. That's on topic with the original question, as it gets at the issue of perspective, in questions of wealth, life, and loss.

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Originally Posted by Tybee

This conversation reminds me of a movie I really liked, the movie about the Klimt painting, Woman in Gold, about Maria Altmann fighting the Austrian government to get her family's painting back. That is off topic from the original question, but it does relate a bit because it talks about the intersection of transitory human experience and the tides of history. Really good movie with Helen Mirren. That's on topic with the original question, as it gets at the issue of perspective, in questions of wealth, life, and loss.

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I saw that movie. It was really good.

I like how iris lilies describes "core" wealth and differentiates it from money wealth.

So here's a little exercise. My family frequently plays the game Taboo. The way you play is, you have to get your partner to guess a word, but in describing the word, the game gives you five related words that you CAN'T say. So if the word is "football" they might say you can't use the words "gridiron," "pigskin," "touchdown" "quarterback" , etc.

So let's play Taboo. The word is "Wealth" and the "taboo" words are "money," "assets," "investments," "account" and "bank"

My Taboo wealth words would be health, time and love - the prioritization the best use of these three.

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

Mine is not compromised.

I knew people who lived 1000 miles from Manhattan after the twin towers fiasco who lost their mental peace and were fearful of going into any high-rise building.

Our fears are feelings, they are not facts. That doesn’t mean they should not be respected because they should be. Cue up the book “the gift of fear.” But these feelings should not be sole determinants of actions.

you would like what Senator Rand Paul had to say about Homeland Security. He’s very unhappy with ICE activity, and he spoke strongly against Congressional increase of funding Homeland Security months ago because he said it would give them lots of power to do some of the things they are doing now.

Rand is the only politician I give money to.

But congratulations on turning this into a thread about Donald J Trump. I was thinking more of Afghanistan, where women are beaten and jailed for making the mistake of revealing an arm or hairline when they’re in public. The Iranian student protesters. Etc.,

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I didn’t even mention trump but you are making the shoe fit!

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Originally Posted by catherine

I saw that movie. It was really good.

I like how iris lilies describes "core" wealth and differentiates it from money wealth.

So here's a little exercise. My family frequently plays the game Taboo. The way you play is, you have to get your partner to guess a word, but in describing the word, the game gives you five related words that you CAN'T say. So if the word is "football" they might say you can't use the words "gridiron," "pigskin," "touchdown" "quarterback" , etc.

So let's play Taboo. The word is "Wealth" and the "taboo" words are "money," "assets," "investments," "account" and "bank"

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In the context of the game and getting the individual to try to say "wealth" - my words would be "gold", "silver", "bitcoin" and "abundance".

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Originally Posted by happystuff

In the context of the game and getting the individual to try to say "wealth" - my words would be "gold", "silver", "bitcoin" and "abundance".

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“abundance” is a good one.Also, “prosperity.”

And "stewardship".

extremely large bookkeeping debits…
plentiful riches …

never played the game but says can use multiple words

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Originally Posted by frugal-one

extremely large bookkeeping debits…
plentiful riches …

never played the game but says can use multiple words

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The game gives you 5 words you can't say, but you can use as many words as you want to get the person to say it.

So for true wealth, I can't say the words I listed, but I could say something like, "This is when hen you feel you have a sense of abundance (thanks IL), in the form of enjoyment of nature, a sense of connection with the people in your family and community, and you enjoy."

Material wealth - having adequate resources to meet all current needs and many wants, and feeling reasonable confident that those resources will be adequate to sustain us through the future.

Non-material wealth - having good health and mental acuity to support an enjoyable lifestyle filled with satisfyingly meaningful endeavors. Having good relationships with friends and family for both mutual companionship and support. Having ready access to nature, art and literature. Having control over one's own time and resources.

Same chapter, but different spin on the original question:

Please tell me, "what does security mean to you?" Wide open question.

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Originally Posted by catherine

Same chapter, but different spin on the original question:

Please tell me, "what does security mean to you?" Wide open question.

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my gut reaction: security is freedom from fear. Fear of – anything really.

I am an extremely secure person. I’m extremely content as well so I think security must play into contentedness, or even happiness. It’s probably somewhat genetic. Dr. Arthur Brooks, that professor of happiness at Harvard, says happiness is determined 50% by Our genes.

When I lived in the murder capital of the United States, I often did my walking regime at night. My friends would occasionally ask me “aren’t you scared “but I wasn’t. That might be stupid to not have that “gift of fear “ (there is a book with that title) But it’s the truth.

When somebody broke into our house in midmorning one day when both of us were at work, I didn’t feel scared or violated or horrified or fearful. I just felt annoyance that the asshole broke down our back door and it was incredibly inconvenient because DH was going out of town the next day and he couldn’t fix it so we had to barricade the back door until he came home a few days later to rebuild it. I didn’t care that the idiot took our television. It was just a dumb TV.

if I have one generalized fear throughout my life, I suppose it’s fear of not having adequate money. I always had adequate money. That’s because I piled it up and hoarded it. My parents always had adequate money so it’s not as though I was in a deprived childhood. I can’t say I had “money insecurity” but I was mindful to always have a stash so I would not feel any insecurity.

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

my gut reaction: security is freedom from fear. Fear of – anything really.

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I'd love to ask you what that means for you... what maes you fearful.. if you don't want to answer, I understand. You can DM me if you want. (So can the rest of y'all.)

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Originally Posted by catherine

I'd love to ask you what that means for you... what maes you fearful.. if you don't want to answer, I understand. You can DM me if you want. (So can the rest of y'all.)

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I did expand my answer above. But sure I have little phobias, but they are situational like: the plane crashing when I’m flying. Having a big truck run into me in bad weather on an interstate. Crashing a car if a road is icy,

when we lived in the city I had a phobia that someone would steal my dog if he was outside in our fenced yard.

Wow, catherine. This one is really making me think. I understand what IL is saying and about having "fears". I think I'll take a different approach and say that security to me is having viable, positive options. And I guess by this I mean, having the ability/knowledge/finances/fortitude/etc. to respond and react to situations - any kind of situation - in a positive, healthy way. Not hurting anyone while being able to maneuver through life.

Does that makes sense? LOL. Not sure it does, but you've definitely given me food for thought.

I really like your reflections, happystuff-- options-- this is truly security.

Well, I like happystuff's thoughts on the matter, will think on that slant a bit more - Personally, I'm a little more down-beat about it. It has always seemed to me that security is an illusion. We can plan, save, hoard, eat right, live right (whatever that may be) learn survival skills, and stuff still happens. Not that we SHOULDN'T do those things, because odds are they will help us out and make for an easier life - but still. There is no absolute control of all factors, and thus, no true security. I think perhaps these are the fears IL is referencing. I know they are mine, lol. That, and running out of money, because we don't have much of that particular commodity. :~)

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Originally Posted by early morning

Well, I like happystuff's thoughts on the matter, will think on that slant a bit more - Personally, I'm a little more down-beat about it. It has always seemed to me that security is an illusion. We can plan, save, hoard, eat right, live right (whatever that may be) learn survival skills, and stuff still happens. Not that we SHOULDN'T do those things, because odds are they will help us out and make for an easier life - but still. There is no absolute control of all factors, and thus, no true security. I think perhaps these are the fears IL is referencing. I know they are mine, lol. That, and running out of money, because we don't have much of that particular commodity. :~)

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Sure, feeling secure is a feeling. Feelings are not facts. So yes, A feeling of control of our lives, i.e. security, is an illusion. There’s nothing wrong with that, we Are all going to have some kind of general feeling about the path and status of our life.

Isn’t it better that we have the overall feeling that we have some control over our lives? I think it is. I see people who drift in life, or who bounce from tragedy to tragedy because their view of their lives is life just happens to them, they don’t have agency over what happens to them. That is a ridiculous way to live and almost guarantees that bad things will happen.

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Isn’t it better that we have the overall feeling that we have some control over our lives? I think it is. I see people who drift in life, or who bounce from tragedy to tragedy because their view of their lives is life just happens to them, they don’t have agency over what happens to them. That is a ridiculous way to live and almost guarantees that bad things will happen.

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Of course we have some control over our lives! I really wasn't trying to say we don't. Just that focusing on security at the expense of living said life can lead to feeling short-changed, or regret that security was the be-all when it's not a given. I have a friend who's struggling with this, which I guess is where my response originated. She feels she did all the "right stuff" and is being short-changed in return, and it's making her crazy and pretty miserable. I think there is some security in NOT expecting to be "secure". More Eastern philosophic, less emphasis on a need for control and more acceptance of being present in the life we do have. It's a balance, as are most things.

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Originally Posted by early morning

Of course we have some control over our lives! I really wasn't trying to say we don't. Just that focusing on security at the expense of living said life can lead to feeling short-changed, or regret that security was the be-all when it's not a given. I have a friend who's struggling with this, which I guess is where my response originated. She feels she did all the "right stuff" and is being short-changed in return, and it's making her crazy and pretty miserable. I think there is some security in NOT expecting to be "secure". More Eastern philosophic, less emphasis on a need for control and more acceptance of being present in the life we do have. It's a balance, as are most things.

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yes, exactly. Its a balance, agreed.

Awesome discussion. early, your post made me think about mystic Bernadette Roberts' quote. While she's a Catholic mystic, this quote definitely rings Eastern: "Until we go beyond our notions regarding the true nature of life, we will never realize how totally secure we really are, and how all the fighting for individual survival and self-security is a waste of energy."

Obviously, this is not really a "practical security" point of view, but does align with what early morning says about security of NOT expecting life to be secure. Thanks for these great, diverse points of view.

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

I did expand my answer above.

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Yes, I saw that. Thank you all who responded.. I'm actually using your quotes, which of course will be anonymous. Doubly anonymous.. because I'm only using user name initials! But the variety of responses are great.