Just call us "Invasive Acres"

We have so many invasive plants on our property, its just a losing battle.......Much of our 30 acres is covered in bush honeysuckle....and now to add to that list.......hops vine, brambles, garlic mustard, wintercreeper euonymous, etc., etc. Some of this stuff we planted a long time ago (gotten from nurseries and the DNR) when they and we didn't know any better.

We don't use chemicals. DH tries to pull out as much as he can, but its become something we just can't fight any more. For every bush that's pulled out, hundreds grow the next spring. The birds love the berries. Some of the honeysuckle is 20' tall.
We're trying to approach this in a Zen sort of way. We're trying to look at it as evolution-in-progress.
But its really hard to see the original natives being suffocated out.
I just found wild ginger down by the creek recently. YAY! That's a good thing! But perhaps soon, the others will choke it out.

Its really hard accepting it, but.........its evolution, right? If these plants are stronger and more aggressive than the natives........then its bound to happen......as long as flora and fauna (and animals) are being brought over from other continents.
Seems like everything brought here from Asia is what is so invasive on our property. I think our temperature zone is the same as their's without the years to develop any balance.
Half of our property is green now, only from the honeysuckle.
We don't have the energy or the resources any more to fight this.
So, hopefully .............
mmmmmm.....we are one with the universe.......mmmmmmm.

I love Roundup, it keeps all of my invasives at bay.

But I perfectly understand that your place is huge and Roundup isn't practical. Guess you've got no other choice than to let them grow. When your plants cross our state line, I'll be standing there with my Roundup, ready to greet them. :)

:devil:I wish Roundup would work on this evil tree weed http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/1699/ I've been fighting this "Paradise Tree/Heaven Tree" (more like "weed from Hell"):devil:

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Originally Posted by Float On

:devil:I wish Roundup would work on this evil tree weed http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/1699/ I've been fighting this "Paradise Tree/Heaven Tree" (more like "weed from Hell"):devil:

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We had a mature tree like this in our yard when I was a kid. I guess the shoots were kept in check when we mowed the yard. I will say it was absolutely the best climbing tree I have ever seen. I lived in that tree all summer when I was 6 or 7 and hung out in it with friends even in HS. A quick Google Earth peek shows it is still there (40 years later). Kind of the ultimate version of one man's trash...

I volunteered at a Fen last fall after biking by and speaking to a person collecting seeds. She told me about the area and asked me join in the cleaning of the area. I knew about invasive plants, but not to this extent. It was overwhelming to me to see what needed to be removed from this area and why. I left feeling far different then I thought I would. I felt I would bond with the area, people, the saturday work, I was hoping this would be a calling for me. How I actually felt when I left was: What good it is going to do cleaning these acres, when the plants, brush and trees are everywhere. I bike the trails near the Fen and now I know the garlic mustard,honeysuckle and the rest that cover the trails should be removed, but by who? How can it be controlled if the general public does not know and thinks it is just pretty wild greens. I was so let down with myself, for the first time (ok not the first time) I realized I could not save the world.

I tend to think that nature has the upper hand on this. We are battling something called bastard cabbage here that is displacing many of the native wildflowers. Some are screaming pull it out and others are saying it might be nature's way of ameliorating the soil after the worst drought in history. Humans are always hoping to outwit Nature but don't forget - we are the most invasive species of all:)

...on overgrown meadows. Though I was at least 15 years younger then.

http://www.drpower.com/TwoStepModelD...Page=fabmodels

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Originally Posted by Float On

:devil:I wish Roundup would work on this evil tree weed http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/1699/ I've been fighting this "Paradise Tree/Heaven Tree" (more like "weed from Hell"):devil:

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Oh those Aileanthus/stink trees are awful, hate the MF's. They are a bane to the urban landscape. Can't tell you how many I've pulled out of the foundation of my tiny houses. They grow in the gutters as well. I just pulled out a 2" one from the lawn this morning. Trees are The Enemy but Ailenanthus trees are The Despised Creatures From H*ll.

Thanks everyone,
Its funny how something can grow out of control in one area, but not 2 states over.
Since we can't possibly get rid of them all, I'm trying to think about the positive that they do.........like provide nesting and food for birds. I'm also hoping that they find that there is a life-saving medicine in their leaves and we can sell them. Yeah, like that's going to happen.
I either need to mount a full scale attack on them, which would cost thousands of dollars, or accept them. I think it will be the latter. Plus, the birds have populated this whole area with their seeds, so even if we got rid of them on our 33 acres, they are all over the county too. We will keep them out of the area around the house, and let the rest go.
Maybe the berries aren't poisonous and I can make and sell jam. I'll call it "Hell's berry jam". haha

Remember the old song "If you can't be with the one you love, love the one your with"? Well, maybe that applies to invasives too. ;)

When I lived in the Pacific NW I remember the problem with blackberries. Blackberries shove in whenever they can and can be such a chore to control. My sister's property has blackberries and through the years she and her husband have mowed them down to an acceptable/livable size but given a free minute or inch those blackberries will take it, and more. I think sometimes we do just have to accept our circumstances and make the best of it.

I like the idea of the "Hell's berry jam"!

Hi Jania,
We have the blackberry problem too......although ours are raspberries. I think the man who who first built this house and landscaped the property planted a big patch of raspberries. Now they are EVERYWHERE. We sure have lots of protection for small animals and birds here! We also have dozens of big brush piles from the tree branches, vines, honeysuckle, etc., etc. that we've collected over the years. I sometimes refer to this place as the "land of a thousand brush piles". haha We have lots of names for this place that aren't very complimentary. But at the end of the day, we have to say we love it. :)

Well, short of getting some goats (which won't work on poisonous plants) or having a huge burn pile, not sure what to tell you. It's funny what's invasive one place vs another. I tried and tried to get any mint to grow in Phoenix to only mild success, whereas in CO I made oodles of tea plus ripped it out to put in the compost bin and yet always there was more mint. I would die with happiness to have too many raspberries, which struggled when we were here before and the renters appear to have killed off. DH threw in a hops vine which is still alive and we'll harvest and brew with it come late summer. So yeah, I think almost anything can be a pest given the right circumstances. Good luck!

We fight a constant battle with wisteria here. It grows up trees and girdles them, it covers the tops and blocks the light and it spreads through underground runners that send up plants a hundred feet from the mother plant. Even though I'm not a fan of herbicides, we tried spraying it with Roundup, but it only made the leaves curl slightly, then it bounced right back. DH fights it more aggressively than I do, ripping up the runners with his tractor, but we still have more and more each year. And, of course, it's still sold in nurseries here.

This isn't our land, but you see this all over every spring:

http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-xe...-30-51_706.jpg

Attachment 735Wow, wisteria. And to think I always considered it a lovely ornamental.

I've had mint DIE on me, and raspberries disappear. And I have mint take over the immediate universe, at which point I hit myself on the head and said, "Oh, that's what they meant about containing it!"

Here, well, here we have nothing at the moment. In our yard, anyway. But I recollect the kudzu from when I lived in the South, and the purple loosestrife (lovely but not a nice plant). Oh, yeah, here we have something called Manitoba maple, which apparently is neither a maple nor from Manitoba, but pretty invasive and ugly. Just not in my little yard at the moment...(we are still trying to recover from our major construction project).

Sometimes whether something is an invasive depends on your framework. At Acadia National Park in Maine there was discussion about trying to eradicate the lupins because they are not native. But they have been there for a long, long time, and visitors to the park expect to see them.

Starting last year, our whole back yard filled up with something called cleavers or sticky weed. The stuff grows like magic overnight and literally covers anything in sight. Where it came from who knows. It is really fascinating though to watch nature do these things - whether we like it or not.

omg, that photo of wisteria is amazing! Just this morning at coffee group we talked about the wisteria that is in full bloom here.

I've tried wisteria twice, and each time it doesn't bloom. I'm not willing to baby something for 5 years without a hint of bloom, so both times I got rid of it and now just enjoy the neighbors' plantings of wisteria.

I laughed at the people who are on the garden sites who are asking for aielanthus trees. Who ARE these fools!!!???? I guess that you wisteria people think that about us. The weather here makes wisteria, while not "easy" to control, at least not impossible to control.

Unfortunately, there's lots of exotic invasives still being sold in the U.S.
A few years ago the county assessor stopped by and told us we had to get rid of the Canadian thistle growing in our fields, or they would spray it with chemicals. DH mowed alot of it down. Fortunately, its easy to get rid of.
But these honeysuckle bushes are unbelievable. You can cut them back and cut them back for years, and it just makes them stronger. They are the first bushes to put out leaves in the spring and the last ones to drop them in the fall. And all the birds just love their big juicy red berries, which they then poop out all over the property. I wish we could somehow make them sterile (the bushes).
In the southern part of this state, Kudzu vines cover all the trees in one huge mass.

I wonder when the DNR is going to realize that these things are brought into this country, and often sold at nurseries, but they turn into monsters, and put a stop to it. I don't think anyone will ever get much of a handle on these invasives.

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Originally Posted by Float On

:devil:I wish Roundup would work on this evil tree weed http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/1699/ I've been fighting this "Paradise Tree/Heaven Tree" (more like "weed from Hell"):devil:

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I knew what tree you meant before I even opened your link. They are truly invasive.

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Originally Posted by ctg492

I volunteered at a Fen last fall after biking by and speaking to a person collecting seeds. She told me about the area and asked me join in the cleaning of the area. I knew about invasive plants, but not to this extent. It was overwhelming to me to see what needed to be removed from this area and why. I left feeling far different then I thought I would. I felt I would bond with the area, people, the saturday work, I was hoping this would be a calling for me. How I actually felt when I left was: What good it is going to do cleaning these acres, when the plants, brush and trees are everywhere. I bike the trails near the Fen and now I know the garlic mustard,honeysuckle and the rest that cover the trails should be removed, but by who? How can it be controlled if the general public does not know and thinks it is just pretty wild greens. I was so let down with myself, for the first time (ok not the first time) I realized I could not save the world.

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A Fen. A marshland?

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Originally Posted by CathyA

Unfortunately, there's lots of exotic invasives still being sold in the U.S.

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Quite true, though some nurseries will not sell non-native "noxious" plants (ie it's illegal to put in a Russian olive tree in CO b/c they are considered noxious). However, sometimes even the native things are a problem if in the wrong area. The renters didn't keep up our yard too well, so now we have a mini aspen forest in what used to be the garden! The next door neighbors have a stand of aspens and the trees reproduce with underground rhizomes or runners even many feet away, and you cannot pull them since they are connected to the strong underground root. So it's constant cutting, sigh. Aspens are indeed native to the Rocky Mountains so no banning them! But they are annoying if you don't want them in your yard, but your neighbors do.

I know what you mean Rosie. We have black walnuts growing everywhere. They are just as prolific as the honeysuckle. Oh.....and the black locust trees. I have euonymous compacta (burning bush) lining our porch. They are invasive in many areas of the U.S., but very slow growing here.

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Originally Posted by Tiam

A Fen. A marshland?

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A fen isn't a marsh. It's kind of in between a pond and a marsh. Not deep enough to be classified a pond but not shallow enough to be a marsh. And of course beyond that is a bog. I think it goes, Pond, Fen, Marsh, Bog. We have a pond and a fen. The pond is deep with many big fish. There is a ring of cattails that grow around it but maintained by us and only one or two cattails deep cause the water goes deep quickly from the edge. The fen is 2, maybe 3 feet deep at it's deepest. No cattails but marsh type grasses at one edge. We use it as our goldfish pond. It's a natural body of water where the pond is man made. The fen is full of goldfish, turtles, frogs, snakes, heron, kingfisher and all the other little woodland critters that enjoy a body of water. Someday, if we just let nature take it's course, the fen will become a marsh, then a bog.

Sounds wonderful Peggy.

Thanks Cathy. I want to naturalize water lilies in the fen, so I can have a sort of Monet thing going on.:) No bridge, the fen is too wide for that, but maybe someday a small dock or spirit bridge. And of course we need a small boat docked under the willow...;)

I would love to have something like that. I have several big stocktank "ponds", but I would love a real pond and a marsh. We have what seem like a couple small vernal pools in the spring, but boy would I love something year round.
You know that saying "If you believe such and such, then I have some swampland to sell you"? It sounds great to me now! I was thinking if we couldn't build a pond, maybe we could build a marsh. So full of life!
As it is now, my little ponds attract a couple green frogs, toads, snakes, dragonflies and damsel flies, but mostly tree frogs. I love to go to sleep at night listening to them. It would drive some people crazy, but they are like a lullaby to me.
You should post some pictures of your fen and pond. I'm so envious!
The Monet idea is a good one!

I have been wanting to post pictures. I know there is a sort of tutorial in the open thread i think. I should look into that. My avatar is of our front pond in winter but the perspective seems to be off. It's about 3/4 acre and roughly (loosely) triangle shaped. I just love it. We sit out on that dock every evening and feed the fish.
The fen is in the back. There is a long sweep of lawn leading down to it. I spend way too much time standing at the windows (or sitting on the deck) with my binoculars watching the visitors to the fen.>8) There is a heron that practically lives there. He is there from morning to night but the heronry is somewhere else cause in the late evening he flies away. It used to kind of bother me watching him gobble up the big goldfish, but there are so many fish in there, I just try to relax and enjoy it. My daughter just says, 'circle of life, mom, circle of life'!:)
If you have the room, building a pond isn't that complicated. I guess it also helps if you have the right kind of soil. We have heavy clay so if you press your heel into the soil, you have a pond! Kind of frustrating for planing things, but great if you like pond/fens/marshes.
I've often though those stock tanks would make great ponds. I wonder what it would take to make those spring pools into ponds? Are they from springs or runnoff? Do you have fish and plants in the tanks? I would love to try some kind of hydroponic thing with the ponds but I'm not sure how to go about it. Maybe floating platforms of some kind to suspend the plants. I guess they would have to be moored to the dock or shore somehow.

3/4 acre sounds perfect! About a mile back behind us there is a low area where the creek meanders and the canadian geese congregate (not on our property). The geese are soooooo loud. that makes me think twice about a pond here! Plus, I wouldn't want their poop everywhere. I wouldn't mind a few, but huge numbers wouldn't be good. We occasionally have herons fishing in our creek. They're such cool birds. They are very shy of humans though. There used to be a huge heron rookery about 15 miles down the road, but it was destroyed when they built a huge McMansion subdivision. :(

You have to be careful what you put in your pond, plant-wise, since some of them get so out of hand. (But I guess procreation is the name of the game, right?) I love lotus, but they can totally fill up a bigger pond. Even water lilies might do that to a point. And definitely don't use anything like water lettuce or water hyacinth.
I think it might be a challenge for us to turn those vernal pools into year-round ponds, since they are so close to the creek and the soil is really sandy. Those tiny ponds are mostly from the spring flooding. Plus, that area gets flooded several times a year and would get totally washed out.

I have about 4 300 gallon stocktanks. 2 are in-ground and 2 are above ground. I also have another small preform in the ground. I guess you could say I'm not that concerned about it looking good (with the above-ground tanks).........I just enjoy what grows in them.
One of the in-grounds is a lotus bog. In the others, I grow water irises, lilies, and marginals. I love them and can't imagine the yard without them!
I can imagine how much you enjoy your pond and fen! They bring such life. Have you considered getting a little row boat? Then you could get a parasol and really have the Monet feel! haha

One thing that some people do with larger watergardens, who want to have plants in the middle of it, is to get a large round hoop (like a hoola hoop) and put plants in it that don't need soil. It keeps them all together.
Your fish might eat the roots though. People with koi have problems with water plants, since the fish either dig them up or eat them.

What was your process for building the pond? Did you consult anyone first? I had the head of the county fish/water department out here to tell us where it would be best, if we had one. He said to put it right where the neighbor's farm field runs off onto our property.....sometimes making a river. What a bad idea!
I would also be really happy with a marsh or a fen!

You're right about the heron. I mostly watch him from the house. He is sort of getting used to me sitting on the back deck but if i step into the yard he's off. The geese only mind if I start fiddling close around the fen. Although we get several visitors throughout the year, there are really only two (a pair) who stay and nest, and of course once they nest, no one else had better even think of landing in that water! The geese don't like the heron and will chase them off if they have babies. I think the feeling is mutual. However, I have noticed that no one minds the ducks. We get wood ducks, which are gorgeous birds, and they will hang with the geese or the heron and neither seems to mind.

I did consider putting lotus in the fen but my research showed what you said. They will take over completely, so , no lotus. I do like your idea of a dedicated area for them. You can eat those by the way. Not much flavor, but very pretty in a dish. In Japan, lotus was a very common vegetable.

I do want to plant some waterlilies, but they can naturalize and I'd be ok with that. The pond in front is too deep to plant lilies. it's mostly for fish and plantings around it. I like the hoop idea. I wonder how i would suspend the plants in the hoop? That actually might be cool with waterlilies suspended in a ring, or even a cage type thing to keep the fish from eating the roots. I'll have to think about that. Might be neat.

Actually, we are getting a canoe this weekend. Occasionally we have to rescue lawn furniture from the pond, or get out there for some other reason. And since the boy doesn't live at home anymore..;). Generally if something goes into the pond it's gone! The pond is so deep there could be a car under there for all we know! The place was built, including the pond, by a funeral director, so of course, lots of jokes about why our fish are so big..! Although we have never done it, I know there are depth finders now days that can give a fairly good picture of what's down there. That might be fun. Lots of lawn chairs, stray fishing rods, and golf balls I imagine!

My husband wants to expand the fen in the back. It's a natural body of water but to expand it wouldn't be too difficult from our research. But then, like I said, we have heavy clay soil, so basically some heavy equipment and planning would do it. You have to plan for runoff, into and out of the pond. Depending on how deep the pond is, the natural resources guy said it can take a few years for a pond from runoff to fill and maintain. If you have sandy soil, I would think you would need a clay liner of some sort.

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Originally Posted by daisy

We fight a constant battle with wisteria here. It grows up trees and girdles them, it covers the tops and blocks the light and it spreads through underground runners that send up plants a hundred feet from the mother plant. Even though I'm not a fan of herbicides, we tried spraying it with Roundup, but it only made the leaves curl slightly, then it bounced right back. DH fights it more aggressively than I do, ripping up the runners with his tractor, but we still have more and more each year. And, of course, it's still sold in nurseries here.

This isn't our land, but you see this all over every spring:

http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-xe...-30-51_706.jpg

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We're having a similar problem with an old lilac bush. A few years ago we pruned the heck out of it and it did not like that one bit. To "protect itself" it has started sending out runner plants all over our front yard. We have more 2 inch high baby lilac shoots than we do blades of grass. Typical broadleaf weed killer applications do nothing. Short of getting on hands and knees and plucking out each one by the root, I don't know what to do.

Peggy.........With a little further research on the pond forum, I realized that the hula hoop idea is only good for floaters.....many of which are invasive. But maybe you could find a few that aren't.
They do make round styrofoam things with small pots in them, but they'd have to be pretty small plants. If you put your waterlilies in some sort of pot/cage, you'd have to thin them about every few years. They are very rapid growers, and when they are in pot they can very quickly get pot-bound. Some people plant them in just stones (instead of soil) and they seem to do just as well.
Did you know that impatiens and hostas can be put in shallow water?
I had a lobelia growing in my lotus bog. Lotus can easily be grown in containers, but if they aren't dwarfs, you'd need to thin them often too. They are so beautiful. I have an Egyptian lotus growing in the bog. I have tried 3 times to grow the native American lotus, and it always died. Go figure!

Have fun with your canoe! I always thought it would be neat to row out to the middle of a pond and take a nap. haha Then again........I have fantasies of hanging some sort of bed over the creek, mid-summer at night, where all the frogs are singing too. Forget about jewels and clothes..........give me frogs and waterlilies! :)