This is so awful. At first, the news said that only 1 teacher died and the gunman was killed. But now its coming out that perhaps 15 children were killed. PLEASE don't let this be true!!
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This is so awful. At first, the news said that only 1 teacher died and the gunman was killed. But now its coming out that perhaps 15 children were killed. PLEASE don't let this be true!!
This makes me sick. Why would anyone want to shoot others-especially children. And so close to he holidays. I am weeping for those poor little ones-what dreadful news
Oh god......now they're saying at least 27 dead. This has to stop!! These poor little children. I'm sick to my stomach.
How upsetting.
It's heartbreaking, and the political cowardice that allows near unfettered access to deadly weapons makes me as ill as these deaths do.
Ditto, Redfox.
I particularly like, "political cowardice".
I wonder what is going on with our world/society nowadays, where everyone is so angry? People so bent on destroying lives for no reason.
This is just so crazy and upsetting. There is no excuse for this - none. Those poor families and those children senselessly deprived of their lives. And so awful too coming on the heels of the senseless shooting at the Clackamas Town Mall in suburban Portland, OR. That one really got to me too as I (in my earlier spending days) used to go to this mall a lot when I lived in Portland. What is this world coming to? The liberals will blame conservatives and the consevatives will blame liberals, I for one would like to step above this fray and just ask what is the world coming to? I think this one goes beyond political beliefs or affiliation. And what else is upsetting is that now we may even need to undergo a background check just to sneeze - society is getting to this point. How did we get here - beyond the blame and the politics, how did we get here? Rob
They are now reporting 27 killed and 18 of the killed were children. This is so sad. All of the children will suffer from this the rest of their lives. We must stop gun violence. The 2nd amendment is not worth the lives of 18 children.
My the victims rest in peace.
Like every other similar event, this is tragic beyond my ability to even comprehend it. It's time to very seriously and earnestly address WHY this keeps happening. The answer is probably complicated, most likely painful and the cause will be hard to fix. We need to all work together to cure this disease, if that is even possible, rather than continue to debate symptoms. What are we doing, or aren't we doing, that keeps producing people who are disturbed enough to harm others in this way?
Me thinks that when that amendment was made we didn't have monsters on the loose killing 18 schoolchildren and nine others.....Something to think about perhaps to those who will disagree. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by freein05
It's not simply a 2nd Ammendment issue. How about we just stop the violence. Period.Quote:
Originally Posted by freein05
Attachment 1078
Let's start with the presidential kill list, then after that program is err... terminated, then we can move on to ending the wars ....Quote:
How about we just stop the violence. Period.
Big Big Big +1 from me on this. I do however suspect the rot at the root cause of this may make many twist and squirm....RobQuote:
Originally Posted by Gregg
Round of applause from me on this! RobQuote:
Originally Posted by Gregg
This is my take, Mrs. M, and I could very well be wrong, as I can't get into the minds of those who commit such acts I see a society in which the money is concentrating into fewer and fewer hands but there is a continued pressure/expectation to be a "winner" and not a "loser" but no real means to get to the side of "winner" for many - I think this leads some to snap. I am however sure there are other reasons, too. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by Mrs-M
On NBC news an FBI person just said that on average there are 20 mass shooting a year in the US and that is a 20 year average. Yes I know guns don't kill people do. If there were fewer guns in the hands of nuts there would fewer mass killings.
So sorry for these poor children and what their families must be going through...
Just came on the news that the shooter's mother was found dead. They think he shot her first.
I wish you were right on this Greg, but my opinion is that it's a part of our complicated modern society that will be extremely difficult to unravel, nonetheless resolve. It funny (in a non-humorous way) how any talk like this has completely dropped out of the discussion I'm aware of here in Colorado only a few months after our shooting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg
There are a lot of difficult questions to try to find answers to. If I had any I'd gladly share them. By now we pretty much know how the gun debate will go down (on these forums, that is). Both sides have valid points and passionate reasons for defending their POV. I'm sure we will engage in the debate again and that's ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by freein05
I've only really been touched by this kind of violence, from a gun or otherwise, one time. One of our dearest friends shot and killed his wife and then himself this September. I do not know what the outcome would have been had he not had a gun in the house and never will. My best, and most honest, guess is that they would both be alive if he hadn't. What I do know for sure is that he was in pain, physical and emotional. We know the pain was deep enough and acute enough to drive him to do something none of us believed would ever be possible. I'm no shrink, but it makes a little sense to think many of these shooters are also experiencing something like that. If that's true then we need to become a proactive society. We need to figure out what are (at least) the most common causes of that kind of emotional distress. We need to let people know it is ok to feel hurt and be willing to help them. We need other people to be educated regarding warning signs to look for in people close to them. And yes, we need to figure out a reasonable way to keep weapons out of the hands of people who will use them to harm others. I just don't see any way that anything short of a holistic approach will ever help us solve our problem.
I don't buy this nonsense of "fewer guns in the hands of nuts". IMO, those words are far too overused by those in favour of free gun laws. It's a decorative dressing, a fancy tablecloth (if you will) to cover an ugly table (plain and simple), a way in which to downplay the severity of what is happening today, in the US, regarding gun related crimes.Quote:
Originally posted by Feein05.
If there were fewer guns in the hands of nuts there would fewer mass killings.
I literally felt sick when I saw the headline--what is the world coming to???
All the violence constantly seen in media has got to be a factor in creating the situation where a mass shooting is even something that occurs to people to do. Now that I don't have a TV anymore, when I do occasionally watch, I am so much more affected (disturbed) by the violent and gruesome images. I also can't believe some of the realistic killing/violence video games that are out there! Think about all the people spending lots of time each day simulating robbing and killing others, crashing them in cars, etc. Even the "educational" games okay for kids to play at school or the library often involve killing or destroying something.
I understand suicide, there are times I've wished to, well not actually do the deed, but more wishing: I wish my car was rear-ended and the pain would just be all over with, without me having to take any action. I don't think I will ever emotionally understand pre-meditated murder.Quote:
What I do know for sure is that he was in pain, physical and emotional. We know the pain was deep enough and acute enough to drive him to do something none of us believed would ever be possible. I'm no shrink, but it makes a little sense to think many of these shooters are also experiencing something like that.
True we are generally not very scientific about it, everyone blames their favorite whipping boy. Including me? Well yea, look the overall cultural tenor is: I don't think we are even kinda sorta a society that really values human life. And no I'm not talking the abortion issue, that is what it is, but I mean first and foremost and primarily already born fully formed human life. I can't pretend our society really values it. And I'm not idealizing some other society, just saying what is as plain as day to me. And that's the overall background against which all is played, but why killers lose it in the way they do when the rest of us even living in this same society don't and can't even fathom such, I don't know. Plus in addition to that it is ALSO a *VIOLENT* society, in every way, shape, and form.Quote:
If that's true then we need to become a proactive society. We need to figure out what are (at least) the most common causes of that kind of emotional distress are. We need to let people know it is ok to feel hurt and be willing to help them. We need other people to be educated regarding warning signs to look for in people close to them. And yes, we need to figure out a reasonable way to keep weapons out of the hands of people who will use them to harm others. I just don't see any way that anything short of a holistic approach will ever help us solve our problem.
Yes, yes, by all means let's toss out a platitude and move on. At least it sounds good, and pretty much absolves us of any real effort, or responsibility to curb gun violence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg
Me, too, but it never lasts long anymore (with me). It's become all too common, and so, I've become quite desensitized to it. Sad but true.Quote:
Originally posted by Mamalatte.
I literally felt sick when I saw the headline
The violence will never stop, ESPECIALLY, when a failed amendment affords it's citizens the right to possess army tanks, missiles, bombs, grenades, machine guns, restricted weaponry, and on and on it goes...
IMO, the second amendment, should afford it's citizens with ONLY the right to bare nothing more than a simple rifle/pistol.
Really, this latest gun-spree is nothing. Copycats are watching (intently) right now, and they're learning, and as time goes on, crimes like this will become more and more sinister and heinous, with higher and higher death tolls.
OT: as this is not a comment on how much is due to violence in the media (because with all the wars going on there's plenty of real sanctioned violence about enough to complain about), but I actually can't look at violence in the media either, I turn away, cover my eyes, I can't look at it. And when I ocassionally watch action type things, I get way overloaded with FEAR. I feel powerless and overwhelmed by life, existentially overwhelmed almost, like life itself is suddenly too much. Everything is scary and horrendous. And no that is not how I am most of the time Yea, can't tolerate :)Quote:
Now that I don't have a TV anymore, when I do occasionally watch, I am so much more affected (disturbed) by the violent and gruesome images.
I found out about this event when it was being covered by international news I was watching on cable. Saddening. Very saddening.Quote:
Originally Posted by peggy
But (and this may well surprise some people, this coming from me) I don't see this as an issue of gun violence. If, somehow, guns were completely unavailable to the shooter (and, from all accounts I've seen so far, he was old enough and qualified enough to purchase the guns), he could have created an explosive device or released poison in the building. Much as I believe that we can and should put some structure around gun purchase and ownership without hollowing out the Second Amendment, the main matter here is that the shooter felt this was an action he had to take. That he felt that way is the real issue, IMHO, not the vector of the violence.
[EDIT]I also wonder how much good the wall-to-wall TV coverage does in cases like this. Thankfully, this is still an incredibly rare event considering the millions of school kids and teachers who go to school every day. I am aware that it is a big news event, as the second-largest school massacre in American history. But are we really served by the endless tape loops showing scared and horrified children and adults and the conjecture and hearsay needed just to fill time?
SHAME ON the US government for sitting back and batting a blind-eye to all the violence.
+1 RobQuote:
Originally Posted by Mrs-M
SteveinMN. IMO, your applying a fancy decorative wrap to it. Denial, it's a mighty and powerful thing.
oh for goodness sake, *they* have a *murder program*. They are also involved in committing several wars. It's the U.S. murder state afterall. Batting a blind-eye to violence would be an improvement compared to you know committing it.Quote:
SHAME ON the US government for sitting back and batting a blind-eye to all the violence.
My guess is that prescribed psychotropic drugs are somewhere in the mix, along with all the previously mentioned elements. and the common disaffection of adolescents and young adults.
You don't see many mass knifings. I wonder how many of the parents of the dead children are proponents of guns. Are they still? As far as the nuts that say "Guns don't kill people, people kill people", well these mass shootings don't happen very often in other countries where gun ownership isn't promoted.
Not just promoted, San Onofre Guy, but allowed to run amuck!
We're animals (genetically by nature), so there will always be violence among us, but the frequency of such events happening (continually) in the US, staggering.
I never felt more out of control of my emotions, and my own violent and rage tendencies in my life than in those years. Hormones, and not fully developed brain, and immense stress of adolescence CRAZY. And I'm not even a male who are overwhelmingly statistically those who commit such crimes, adolescent females are, no matter how crazy inside, usually a pretty non-violent bunch afterall.Quote:
and the common disaffection of adolescents and young adults.
Way to go NRA! 27 more people that according to you guns didn't kill. ( Remember guns don't kill people, people kill people.)
Back in the dark ages when I was growing up (1950's) the NRA was for people who went deer hunting. What progress we have made.
Somebody made those guns and somebody sold them and IMHO, they, the NRA, and their puppets in Congress have as much of the children's blood on their hands as the deranged man who shot them.
Well said! I couldn't agree more!Quote:
Originally posted by Florence.
the NRA, and their puppets in Congress have as much of the children's blood on their hands as the deranged man who shot them.
I too am speechless. We were in the middle of our Christmas party when someone checked their phone and saw the news. Driving home, all I could think about was that something is very wrong with our culture when our children, our future are so easily assasinated. The sad truth is that there are other hate-filled individuals watching out there with cold hearts and a wish to do the same - at the grocery store, at church - there is no safe haven for any of us anymore. I would put more of a finger on violence in the media and our endless wars that we have all grown to think of as normal. An unrelenting stream of it and an unbalanced person loses any other framework than using violence to feel powerful - if even for one horrible moment.
Guns + mental illness. Very powerful, very pertinent article by a MHP.
http://awaypoint.wordpress.com/2012/...s-kill-people/