Details still coming in on the injured....Two bombs went off around 3pm during the Boston Marathon. Runners still on the course, although many had already finished.
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Details still coming in on the injured....Two bombs went off around 3pm during the Boston Marathon. Runners still on the course, although many had already finished.
It looks awful. So horrendous.
That's awful. It's a Massachusetts holiday, so many people will have the day off from work, and will go and watch the marathon and cheer people on - whether they know them or not. I went there myself to watch one year. It's very sad.
A friend of mine, and my main firefighting partner, was running the race today. I think from his pace on the runner-tracking app he'd have been a few hundred yards back. I'm hoping a) he is OK b) he was in good enough shape after running a marathon to start helping people.
Still waiting on word.
Is this a tax protest? Could it be connected to recent assassinations of law enforcement personnel?
the video at the BBC looks like it may have affected onlookers, and not runners --> BBC linkQuote:
Originally Posted by bae
The fact that it is April 15 raises that suspicion. It will be interesting to see if any group takes credit for this.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
2 dead, 90+ injured, many severe. People have lost limbs, many are in hospital. There were 2 other bombs that did not go off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Life_is_Simple
Oddly, there was also some sort of incendiary event at the JFK library (which is nowhere near the event). Tons of smoke from a fire there.
It's so weird, I walk through that area at least once a week. I saw the stands and tents for the marathon set up when I was there Friday.
Maybe this might help - http://google.org/personfinder/2013-boston-explosions/Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
Adrenalin takes over in a situation like this bae. If your friend is there, I'm sure he will help as much as he can.
What I dread is the video of dancing in the streets in the mid-east. I want to believe it won't happen, but I'm afraid it will. Just like the celebration after Thatcher's death, there are haters everywhere.
So so sad. Unfortunately, no matter how tight our security is, we can not protect against everything as the very tenant of our country is freedom of movement, and privacy of our citizens and visitors. This is a huge wide open country. Frankly I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. I guess it's a testament to our security and intelligence that it doesn't .
We have a friend who was 2 miles from finish when the blasts occurred. She is safe, and on a flight back to Seattle at this very moment. Craziness.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
Heard back. He and his wife were fine, they helped out folks as best they could, back home soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox
The Middle East didn't cross my mind. I thought of the Olympic Park bombing, and the foiled one recently in Spokane. I'll be very surprised if this isn't domestic terrorism.Quote:
Originally Posted by peggy
We have heard back from most of the people we know who were running the race and they and their families are safe. Otherwise, we're in a bit of shock here in Boston. It's Patriot's Day - the proudest day of the year for our Commonwealth. That morning, a large crowd gathered at Lexington Common near where I work to view the re-enactment of the beginning of our American revolution. And then this horrific and pointless tragedy, some coward hurting spectators including children for no reason. It's still sinking in. It was even more surreal this morning receiving a message of support from our minister, currently traveling in Iraq. The world's turned upside down.
I spoke with my sister-in-law in Boston at 4. Surreal was the word she used, too. She said it was such a beautiful day--and now this craziness. I am so sorry, bUU, and glad you are not hurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU
I, too, am leaning towards it being domestic........probably some misfit who hated all the crowds in his neighborhood on this holiday. In a country with so many freedoms, it will always be hard to stop these heinous acts.
I'm so sad.
I didn't mean I thought the person who did this was from the mid-east. I was talking about haters in the mid-east celebrating that we were hurt, like those in London celebrating Thatcher's death.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
It very well could have been a home grown terrorist. There is plenty of hateful rhetoric going around to get some nut fired up. It could be someone against Boston, someone against the race itself, or even someone against the government (patriots day) Who knows. But the fact that they found two un-blown bombs helps in that there is a world of evidence there not blown into a million pieces.
As an update, this morning they said the only two bombs were the ones which detonated -- no undetonated bombs were found.Quote:
Originally Posted by peggy
I, too, lean toward thinking this is domestic terrorism. Frankly, I think AQ or other more famous terrorist organizations would have done a much better job of timing and sizing the blasts. In addition, someone (newspaper? TV?) pointed out that this week in American history is rife with domestic protest: Waco, the Oklahoma City bombing, and some other incident I don't remember at the moment, all occured this week in April.
Yea I thought that information about undetonated bombs would be found false (isn't there always lots of misinformation floating around at such times - the degree of it is astounding). No, I'm not going to go deep down some tin foil rabbit hole with "yes there were undetonated bombs and they are now covering them up". I'm just going to go with the official story and the initial informaiton was wrong, it amazes me how good my instincts are in suspecting all initial information sometimes. Called it!Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinMN
I don't bother to have an opinion on who it is yet. We could find out it's North Korea for all I know (it's the type of scale they are actually capable far more than nuclear warheads). It could be a faulty gas line for all I know (yes I know there are supposed to be bombs and there probably were, I'm just withholding certainty). It could be some right wing nut in a very blue state obsessed with Patriot day (mind you being angry at the govt can be rational and maybe even moral, blowing up a marathon having nothing to do with it is not). I certainly don't have any reflexive urge to blame the middle east. Because yea it's theoretically possible, but we've been told to worry about mid-east violence for a decade plus since 9-11 and there hasn't been pretty much ANY in the U.S.. So me thinks that threat is overblown. In the same time period there actually have been a few incidents of domestic terrorism. Although if they party in the middle east I'd know why. They are tired of being blown up by U.S. government bombs pretty much.
If we're going to speculate, I'll go with the President's friend and neighbor, Bill Ayers. Once you develop an explosive ordnance skillset, you gotta use it or lose it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore
My bet is on Norwegian Lutheran extremists.
Well years of eating Lutefisk will drive you mad :-)!Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
Personally I think this is probably a disgruntled anti-tax person/anti-patriots day person - a single person - rather than a domestic terrorist group (shades of the original tax revolt - the Boston tea Party?). Domestic terror groups have greater skills at explosive device making then these ones were - which were just a step up from a pipe bomb it seems (pressure cooker with shapnel and probably a timer). But I'm just speculating. It is so sad and tragic that people have to express their "rage against the machine" in this way when there are so many more productive outlets to get your message to the public. .
A sovereign citizen perhaps?
Some of us who live here love to hate the marathon - though in a good natured way poking fun at it - due to the big disruption that it causes in our lives once a year. I hope that no one hated the marathon enough and took it seriously enough that it was a motivation for this awful act.
I have trouble imagining that someone would be so disturbed over taxation to cause so much meaningless human destruction, but it is a strange world sometimes. It seems to me like if there was a true point to be made by the responsible party or parties, it would be lost without a claim of credit and purpose. I tend to think it might just be some sick person or persons much like the mass shootings we've had.
I'm beginning to come around to that conclusion, myself. I was reserving judgement until this afternoon, wondering if the bombings yesterday were the start of an ongoing infliction of terror in US cities. Now that that seems less likely, I'm more inclined toward the mental illness explanation.
true killing innocent people is beyond the pale. But forgive me but everytime I find myself infinitely twisted in some new heck hole of the 1040 I think of that Stack guy who flew his plane into and IRS building, and forgive me but then I smile (that was his issue, he had no clear political agenda, he wasn't even anti-tax in principle, he just found himself subject to some wildly obscure unfair tax law - and yea he was economically a mess, probably a little batty etc.). That was considered an incident of domestic terrorism.Quote:
I have trouble imagining that someone would be so disturbed over taxation to cause so much meaningless human destruction
It it's entirely devoid of political meaning, it's not even terrorism (maybe if it's 90% devoid of it it shouldn't be either).Quote:
It seems to me like if there was a true point to be made by the responsible party or parties, it would be lost without a claim of credit and purpose. I tend to think it might just be some sick person or persons much like the mass shootings we've had.
Heartbreaking.
I hope there is heaven, and hell.
I got an interesting email from my BIL in Peshawar, Pakistan. They had a bombing today that killed 16 and injured 35 (preliminary numbers). It was the fourth such attack there in the past three days. His take on the differences between the US and Pakistan boils down to two points. First, and most obvious, we don't have much Taliban activity. Second is the fact that since 9/11 various government entities have kept a very close eye on suspicious groups/people and closely monitored anyone buying abnormal quantities of materials that could be used in bombs. He is involved in global counter-terrorism discussions on a fairly regular basis and the consensus from those seems to be that such activity in the US will increase in the coming years. The bombs in Boston were basically IEDs. Low tech, cheap (way below the cost of an assault rifle and ammo) and effective at inflicting small scale damage that can have a much larger psychological impact. I don't know if that assessment is correct or not, but if a tactic like this continues to be effective in other places it makes sense that disturbed people, either individuals or groups with a common cause, would realize that and begin to consider this an option more often.
Gregg - Just a month or so ago, I went through some extensive required HAZMAT operations training for firefighters. 40 hours of classroom, plus lots of practical work.
It was basically a graduate class on How To Be A Better Terrorist. And we train 10s of thousands of people a year through that program, essentially required since 9/11.
Nobody who has taken this training would bother with something silly like guns or small IEDs to cause A Real Ruckus, if they were really motivated, when there are so many...more effective...things just sitting around. It's positively scary.
It's frankly a miracle we haven't had more Bad Things happen than we have. Either people are inept (and I don't want to fall into the trap of underestimating bad guys), or our intelligence/security is really good (which, working in the field a bit, I don't believe), or our enemies aren't really so numerous and motivated inside the USA (which is my leading theory).
I work just down the street, but luckily, we always have Patriot's Day off as a company holiday. Strange to see so many National Guardsman and state police keeping watch in the subway stations today.
Bae, what you've said is why I think this bombing was done by a crazy person, non-affiliated. Kinda like the Olympic Park bombing.
What sort of bothers me is that these sorts of things are often meant to incite fear and demoralize. I wonder if there aren't other people of groups that see this as an opportunity to drive the wedge a little deeper.
What ever people might say about the high cost of Homeland Security or the inconveniences like long lines and inspections in airports, or certain perceived loss or privacy, some of which are probably valid, it does seem like there has been a degree of effectiveness in catching or deterring similar things.
Eric Rudolph was anything but some lone nut. From Wikipedia:Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox
Eric Robert Rudolph (born September 19, 1966), also known as the Olympic Park Bomber, is responsible for a series of bombings across the southern United States between 1996 and 1998, which killed two people and injured at least 150 others in the name of an anti-abortion and anti-gay agenda. The Federal Bureau of Investigation considers him a terrorist.[1]
As a teenager Rudolph was taken by his mother to a Church of Israel compound in 1984; it is connected to the Christian Identity movement.[2] He has called himself a Roman Catholic in "the war to end this holocaust" (in reference to abortion).[3] He has confirmed religious motivation, but denied racial motivation for his crimes.[4]
He was cut from the same cloth as Timothy McVeigh (anti-government militia movement), Kevin Harpham (white supremacist Movement), and the assassins of law enforcement personnel in Texas and Colorado, thought to be members of the Aryan Brotherhood.
I've had no where near your level of training bae, but even just from basic OSHA training on how to safely handle some materials you can get a pretty good idea of how to cause a commotion. Even so, the relatively small and inefficient IEDs in Boston have caused quite a disruption in that city and drawn a massive amount of national attention. I'm guessing that is mission accomplished for whoever set them up.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
I agree that our (foreign) enemies are not particularly motivated to actually attack the US inside our borders. The primary emphasis, at least in the middle east, seems more geared toward pushing us outside of their borders. If our leaders follow through with the proposed military exit strategy there may be even less reason for most foreign terrorist cells to target us.
My take on my BIL's information is that we should be more worried about domestic terrorism similar to what he has to deal with. The Taliban in Pakistan is, after all, a domestic group. The level of training you and so many others have received only seems to amplify the potential threat. Sooner or later there will be someone with that knowledge who will find the motivation to use it in a negative way.
Isn't that really just the definition of terrorism?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
The British finally retaliating for the Revolutionary War? Hmmm.. and I thought they achieve that vengence when they sent us British pop back in the late 1960's :-)!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg
I agree. I haven't heard the news today (yet) so there are probaly tons of new info but I also think it was some "lone gunman (bombman) in the watchtower" kind of thing. Back when I was in my senior year of college for Criminal Justice I had to take a semester long class called "Terrorism and Violence". It went thru all the various domestic and international terror groups of that time - as well as some of the more wacko left and right wing groups - and disscussed their methods and "tools" commonly used. And like both Bae and Gregg said, these kind of bombs, while used worldwide, are generally that of small unsophiticated groups or lone disgruntled people. Like other's here, I too can't even fanthom how wound up a person (or group of people) must get to do something like this to innocent people - unless they have mental health issues. Just boggles the mind. Especially if it was over something like taxes. Throw some tea in the harbor and protest for change - don't kill people!Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox
You're right but often individuals - or a couple of individuals - will splinter off from the main group and act alone rather than acting on the groups behalf. Usually in a more violent fashion then the main more political arm of the group would act. Often times those groups deny any current connection to the individual (and their acts of violence) even if they had been a member at one time.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
The Saudi Marathon man...
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...athon-man.html
IBEW Local 103 has a billboard in Boston. I like how the brotherhood's sign says: COWARDS; and, Pray for Boston.