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  1. #21
    Senior Member Yppej's Avatar
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    I think there is also the possibility of destitution outside a care facility. For instance, if you are unsafe driving and hit and kill someone that's a huge liability.

  2. #22
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    The cost of assisted living places is obscene, IMO.

  3. #23
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    One spouse in a nursing home is very costly even with Canadian health coverage. The basic 'extras' eat up a lot of currency each month. Unless the couple has substantial assets to cover these extras, the other spouse is living on less than a single pension trying to cover the nursing home extras and regular living expenses for one outside the nursing home.
    One woman when offered condolences on the passing of her DH quietly told me that his death was actually such a relief as she was being drained financially. It is tough.
    As Cicero said, “Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all the others.”

  4. #24
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    Dad's household went from two Social Security incomes, and a moderate pension, to a single Social Security income and a lot of medical and care bills.

    He's left with about $20k/year in Social Security, and will leave his home with about $100k in equity after transaction fees. He cannot afford his current mortgage on his modest condo where he currently lives in California, along with food and healthcare and health insurance, without spending down that $100k in capital.

    He's 79. Men in his family line live to their mid-to-late 90s. So he has to make that last say 16 years. I don't think that's quite possible, unless he moves to someplace super cheap and reduces his medical coverage.

    The medical costs and care facility fees of the past months wiped out their extra capital, putting him considerably below the median net worth for his age range ($265k).
    Your father is moving from one HCOL to another HCOL. I guess he has planned for that.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Simplemind's Avatar
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    Both my dad and my MIL lived in independent living communities for a time. Spendy, but affordable to both. I loved both places and wouldn't ever mind living in either one of them. It was a time that we always look back on fondly because they were in community both perked up after having been isolated in their homes. The newer places were smaller and easier to keep clean and safer in so many ways. Then both needed more care. My dad needed dementia care and I didn't like what they provided where he was. Too spare and clinical, not what I felt good about for my dad. MIL has always been sharp as a tack but needed physical assistance and has now pretty much lost all her eyesight. We tried assisted living at her place but didn't like it for a multitude of reasons mostly medication mismanagement. We moved both to adult foster care homes. Again, should I ever need it I would pick either of them. My dad was right down the street from me. He had a large room with a sitting area and private bathroom. They allowed him to have his beloved cat. Big home with a large garden, food was great. They became like family to us and my dad has been gone two years now and I still miss that family. MIL lives in a beautiful huge Tudor home in the country with the most beautiful gardens surrounding it. Food is mostly home grown and great there as well. My dad was beginning to need more help but his care was at $3500. MIL needs a lot of assistance and she is at $6000. We only have a couple of months left at $6000 before Medicare takes over. She is 96 and this last year has been so hard on her and we have really been able to pick up on the mental decline when on the phone with her. We have had a few visits through the window.

    Neither of them would have ever been able to figure out this housing on their own. MIL was a peach and downsized herself without us ever having to lend a hand. My dad was way over his head 30 years before we were at DEFCON levels.

    To speak to what IL said, yes and adult can live dangerously if they want. However when dementia has taken over they have no awareness of danger and criminals were encroaching so I had to step in because like I said.... they don't know what they don't know. When you have to call the PD out more than a couple of times it is time to bust a move.

    Back to the driving, police don't take licenses away but use the same format that physicians do. In my neck of the woods the PD doesn't bother buy dad's doctor got on it right away. They have to go in and pass a driving test. My dad was pissed as all get out and wanted to get an attorney. I told him that was fine but he was still going to have to take a safety course and pass the test. He didn't want to do it so that was that. He then became the worst backseat driver to me letting me know of every mistake I made just to show he really did know what he was doing. He would tell me I was speeding and I would point out the speed sign and the speedometer. I wasn't speeding but he was always bracing himself swearing I was doing 100 in a 35. He had no concept of speed anymore.

  6. #26
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    I think there's something wrong when it costs so much to die. You have work hard your entire life and scrimp and save, just so that the last few years of your life render you destitute? It seems ridiculous. I don't have a solution, but it doesn't seem to fit with the natural order of things. In my family, my mother and grandmother spent a few years in long-term care but they didn't have the money to pay for it, so the State did. Their LTC facilities were actually not bad. Not wonderful, but not bad. My father died homeless, and I had two grandparents that died of heart attack/stroke. One grandfather had the means to hire a full-time home health aid, who was wonderful, and he died living in the home in which he raised his family.

    AARP has made the case that if Medicare/Medicaid paid for home health care instead of LTC, it would actually save them money and provide a much higher quality of life to the elder. I'm not sure if that's true, but I think it would be great.

    ETA: This interesting article with a whole bunch of stats about long term care.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  7. #27
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    The problem with home care on a for-profit basis in our area was that there was no consistency when the PSW (personal support worker) would arrive based on my close observation of two friends. It was a different person each day and they had a schedule that was crazy trying to fill in too many clients in a day. The non-profit was much better but the county was told that they could save $$$$ by tendering services. The result was so traumatic for everyone. Burnout for the PSW's who rotated in and out fairly frequently and clients and families scared of when, who, was coming each day. The private for-profits made their money as every client visited in a day generated income from the public health system.
    As Cicero said, “Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all the others.”

  8. #28
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    Your father is moving from one HCOL to another HCOL. I guess he has planned for that.
    Yes, he cleverly raised children that would care for their parents in old age :-)

    And demonstrated the idea by having his own elderly mother live with him for nearly 15 years after grandpa died. It's why I've been providing housing to my own Mom for 20 years now, though I was prudent enough to house her 6 miles away from this house - close, but not in my hair :-)

    The cost of living here isn't terrible, if you don't include the housing costs. My Mom manages to survive in reasonable style on her social security alone. Her house however would rent for $4-5k/month if it were rented year round, but it probably would only be available by the week during the summer season for a lot more, annualized.

    Now to scam Dad a place to stay here long-term. My house is big enough that we'll manage for quite some time if need be, which will allow him to save up some $$$ I hope.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Teacher Terry's Avatar
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    Bae, it’s great that you can afford to help your parents. I am sure that they appreciate it.

  10. #30
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    IDK, Mom always said never wanted kids to take care of her. Went to every single free lunch at new retirement home, assisted living homes, every old age lecture at every luncheon there was. See a pattern free lunch. In the end both parents stayed in the house till the terrible ending 7 years apart. I ended up being the ONLY one to do anything, sibling no where to be found. It was pure h*ll for me and me having obligation issues made it worse.
    I am just healing and the feeling of resentfulness is fading. I know mom never planned it this way. But I hope I can learn and remember these events and save my sons from the pain......IDK can we?

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