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Thread: Irreversible Damage by Abigail Shrier

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    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Irreversible Damage by Abigail Shrier

    Just started this book. Had to wait almost a month to get it from the library. It is about the explosion of female to male transitions taking place in our society, focusing on teenage girls.

    The author is supportive of adult trans people with dysphoria.

    This book is not about them it is about teenage girls which the research is showing are self diagnosing their mental anguish as body dysphoria. Here’s an introductory paragraph which makes perfect sense to me:

    The Salem witch trials of the 17th century are closer to the mark[of this phenomena.] So are the nervous disorders of the 18th century and and the neurasthenic epidemic of the 19th century. Anorexia nervosa, repressed memory, bulimia, and the cutting contagion in the 20th. One protagonist has led them all, notorious for magnifying and spreading her own psychic pain: the adolescent girl.

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    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    I've put this title on hold; the subject matter is certainly a minefield.

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    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Interesting, thanks for the pointer.

    The full title appears to be "Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters", so...hmmm.

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    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    Interesting, thanks for the pointer.

    The full title appears to be "Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters", so...hmmm.
    Yes I didn’t include the subtitle. In the body of my message I wrote what the book is about.

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    In some sense in a patriarchal society what female does not wish they were male sometimes? It would frankly be absurd not to. But that has nothing to do with being trans.

    But I'm glad I didn't have to think about it too much as a teenager. Truthfully I neither thought about my gender (i lived mostly in my head,my body was just an annoyance) nor even much about sexuality as a teenager, did wonder what my place in the world would be when I became an adult, would I find a good career, would my life have a purpose, would anyone ever love me, etc. Plenty on my plate.
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

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    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    Yes I didn’t include the subtitle. In the body of my message I wrote what the book is about.
    There just seems to be a lot to unpack just in the title.

    Hopefully that's just from the marketing department.

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    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    There just seems to be a lot to unpack just in the title.

    Hopefully that's just from the marketing department.
    I heard the author interviewed on a podcast. She is a journalist, and sex research is not her area, she is not Deborah Soh*. But she kept finding anecdotes, running into parents who asked someone to tell this story, and then finding academic study that showed teen girls in pods deciding to transition. In other words, peer influence is a major influence here.

    She tried to convince others to write about this phenomenon but given the minefield that it is, no one would take it on.

    This author spent prelude to the podcast, and introduction to this book, apologizing for, essentially, presenting the data and her arguement. She is quick to assure all that body dysphoria is a real thing and yadda yadda.

    Me, I am watching several YouTube videos from girls who are now de-transitioning. They’ve already had their boobs cut off though so that’s pretty sad, and their voices are permanently deep, like a man’s. Going off T does not restore their fem voices.

    * a gender and sex scientist who left academia due to lack of intellectual freedom surrounding her topic.
    Last edited by iris lilies; 3-26-21 at 7:01pm.

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    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    I frankly don't understand transgender issues but do recognize the strong emotions and uncertainties as a female teenager seeing herself and her future. I wanted at times to be a boy as I had been told that as a girl there were many things that I could not do. Recently at a 55th class reunion via Zoom it was amazing how often classmates shared the experience of being told that jobs open to girls were nurse, teacher and secretary.

    Fortunately I had a dad who told me that I could do and be whatever I wanted. He stressed that things that needed bigger muscles could be overcome with intelligence so that is what I did.
    When I graduated from high school, a dear neighbour wanted to connect me with a future husband, I ran away to the big city to escape that life at 18years of age.

    Society has restricted girls forever to certain roles based on the ability to bear a child upon which the future of society historically depended.

    The intense effort today to sexualize tiny little girls in clothes, movie heroes, barbie dolls, role playing instead of letting kids by kids is a conspiracy by competing helicopter parents and for-profit corporations and creates confusion. Yes, girls are more than sex objects.

    Our two daughters were given the same freedom as any boys would have received. They raced cars in the hallways, wore jeans and t-shirts, learned all kinds of skills and were expected to do everyday routine chores helping their dad. They are and were well-equipped for life.

    I wonder what the future holds for our children with all the pressures on them today.
    As Cicero said, “Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all the others.”

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    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    "Truthfully I neither thought about my gender (i lived mostly in my head,my body was just an annoyance)" (ANM)

    Ha!--I still feel that way!

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    We have been dealing with this issue with our daughter for a number of years now. There are many challenges, frustrations and painful choices involved. On of the biggest difficulties is finding objective information we can trust. There are so many voices pushing an ideological agenda, and such vicious cultural warfare, that even the professionals we’ve found to work with seem terrified of providing their best advice. At the same time, we’ve been treated to an unlimited amount of unsolicited, ill- informed opinion.

    At the beginning, I read everything I could find on the subject, but honestly at this point I’ve given up.

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