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Thread: Who Has Not Been Vaccinated?

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    I’ll admit the blood clot thing confuses me a little. Are we justified in assuming those eight or whatever cases are a direct result of the vaccine without reference to some control group who did not receive it? Using the same logic, couldn’t we link the vaccine to any other medical condition occurring post-vaccine? Or even grain silo accidents or kitchen mishaps?
    These patients are being studies carefully. Background, health issues, use of birth control modalities, pregnancies, births, estrogen drivers, family history......it will be another month or so before we get a full analysis of all the variables.

    The world is watching.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    It is probably way too soon to definitively say whether or not the clots were a direct result of the vaccine. However, there are very strict regulatory procedures that demand reporting of ANY adverse event that occurs during the time the medication was taken. As a market researcher, I'm obliged to report to the company's pharmacovigilance department all adverse events, untoward events, and product quality complaints that occur during the time an individual takes the manufacturer's product that come up in the course of interviewing patients, healthcare providers or caregivers. Doesn't matter if I believe the event and the drug are related--that's not for me to decide. Doesn't matter if it was part of a clinical trial, when that data would already have been reported. If the auditors find that I haven't reported those incidents, my company can be fined, corrective procedures will be put in place, and I certainly will lose my contracting gig.

    It's only through all this kind of data collection of post-marketing real-world evidence can the powers that be really determine if the clots were related to the vaccine or not, or whether there are any other suspected or unsuspected adverse events that can be attributed directly to the drug.
    That’s really interesting. I would think that with the large populations involved any number of medical conditions would arise over time. How do you penetrate the statistical fog with any degree of certainty that these minuscule sets of occurrences are actually related to the drug and not random chance? Or is the best you can hope for just compiling a list of potential risks to include on the warning label?

    I’m glad I opted for a career in finance. The due diligence could be pretty tricky at times, but nothing like this. Although for our purposes, for a general obligation bond issue we were able to operate at the standard of working with a reasonably prudent person with experience with such transactions. Not someone who couldn’t recognize the wide gap between the benefit of a high degree of immunity from a deadly disease and a tiny risk of contracting another potentially deadly disease.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    I don't believe you have children. Ask anyone who does which is the more devastating prospect - losing an elderly parent or losing a child.
    I would imagine that a majority of the 24,120 under 50’s who have died of covid still had at least one living parent. Is their grief less worthy than the parents of the 3 people who died from the J&J shot?

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardnr View Post
    These patients are being studies carefully. Background, health issues, use of birth control modalities, pregnancies, births, estrogen drivers, family history......it will be another month or so before we get a full analysis of all the variables.

    The world is watching.
    Is the world really watching? I would think the vast majority simply assume approved drugs to be relatively safe without giving it that much thought. Do drug warning labels get any more attention than software terms and conditions or credit card privacy policies?

    We rely pretty heavily on experts that our drugs will generally do us more good than harm; just as we generally trust that bridges won’t collapse beneath us and our emails will wind up where we send them and our toasters won’t burst into flame. Not because we worship experts. There are any number of credentialed buffoons and crooks out there. It’s more a matter of practical convenience. Who has the time to inform themselves on every aspect of our technological civilization?

    The anti-vaccine cult is a very small minority. And I think razz is right that some people refusing shots may be trying to maintain some level of control. And some may have such a problem with needles that they will seize on any pretext not to “trust” vaccines.

  5. #165
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    I'm just watching Fareed Zakaria on CNN (one of my favorite journalists) and he's doing a piece now on "The Dangers of Playing it Safe"--talking about how dumb it was to take the J&J vaccine off the market for such a baseless risk.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    Is the world really watching?
    Yes. People want this single shot as they are afraid of needles and nearly 50% won't take another right now. I've been talking about this from ACTUAL experience.

    But hey, you know more about this than I do right? I mean, you're calling patients to inform and reschedule and experiencing their responses, you're vaccinating patients who reluctantly switched. And your friends in other cities are telling you the same experiences.........Right?

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    I'm just watching Fareed Zakaria on CNN (one of my favorite journalists) and he's doing a piece now on "The Dangers of Playing it Safe"--talking about how dumb it was to take the J&J vaccine off the market for such a baseless risk.
    All vaccines are being administered under an EUA. This is very different from a FDA approval. A micro subset of a similar reaction reported is going to be a red flag. It is a responsible action to pull back, evaluate, attempt to determine if it's the medication or a unique patient causation. Then determine if the EUA continues.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardnr View Post
    Yes. People want this single shot as they are afraid of needles and nearly 50% won't take another right now. I've been talking about this from ACTUAL experience.

    But hey, you know more about this than I do right? I mean, you're calling patients to inform and reschedule and experiencing their responses, you're vaccinating patients who reluctantly switched. And your friends in other cities are telling you the same experiences.........Right?
    If the needle- phobic were that significant a part of the population, wouldn’t we still be dealing with major smallpox outbreaks?

  9. #169
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardnr View Post
    All vaccines are being administered under an EUA. This is very different from a FDA approval. A micro subset of a similar reaction reported is going to be a red flag. It is a responsible action to pull back, evaluate, attempt to determine if it's the medication or a unique patient causation. Then determine if the EUA continues.
    I agree.. I was dashing that post off quickly in between doing dishes.. .he didn't say it was "stupid" or it was a "baseless" risk. That was my sloppy paraphrase. His point is that sometimes people interpret risk very emotionally, and the real risk of a situation (lie the perceived risk of letting Muslims into the US post-9-11) is actually very small, especially compared to other risks, like driving, or drowning in a backyard swimming pool.

    People get very emotional about their perceptions of safety. I remember post-9/11, when people were traveling on planes again, my coworker came back from a trip and told us "OMG, I was so scared. A man with a turban sat next to me on the plane!"

    So I said to her, "The terrorists weren't wearing turbans"--trying to make the point that her logic was pretty faulty. Her fears really were based on at least 3 degrees of separation. She extrapolated the following logic: "The people who flew planes into the World Trade Center were Muslim. Therefore all Muslims are terrorists" and if that weren't bad enough, "Some Muslims wear turbans. Therefore, if someone wears a turban, whether or not they are Muslim, they might be a terrorist." Likewise, some people would say, "All brown skinned people from the Middle East are terrorists."

    No wonder we can't all get along.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  10. #170
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    Idahl, do you not think that just as you are very knowledgeable about financial fraud and its prevalence in the financial industry that Gardnr's knowledge of the the needle-phobic patients in the healthcare industry in which she has served for decades is just as credible?
    Both of you are practitioners having to maintain up to date accreditation and take ongoing CE in your fields to properly provide service. While you may not have had to directly deal with a lot of fraud cases in your career, Gardnr has had to directly deal on a daily basis with the general population which includes many of the needle-phobic. We all need to respect that level of knowledge in.
    As Cicero said, “Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all the others.”

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