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Thread: The Evolution of the Doubling of Life Expectancy

  1. #61
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosarugosa View Post
    I agree fully and my contempt for the Catholic church is absolute. I think women who identify as Catholic must have some degree of self-loathing, whether recognized or not.
    This is interesting. As a strong non believer I think it is all bunk, but in my old age I am a little bit attracted to the Catholic Church. I think it’s because they are so damn thorough. All of those old men in skirts sit around and write treatises about anything in life, so if I was looking for guidance about a specific thing, chances are the Catholics have a teaching about it. That is thorough!

    I’m also influenced by all of the 19th century Catholic churches in my immediate area in the city of Saint Louis. They are gorgeous. The building is important to me. And then here I am in Hermann this afternoon looking at the vista and there’s a Catholic church with its tall steeple in the center of my wonderful Little Europe view.

    . For me, the building is super important.mAll those popish trappings yes! The plain people like the Quakers or the Baptists who don’t build palace monuments to God really don’t know where it’s at.

  2. #62
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    There used to be large beautiful Catholic churches in every small community in Quebec. I was surprised to see so many closed and vacant or repurposed as the adherents have left the ship.

    One small but beautiful church nearby is noted for its acoustics. Engineering students come to see how it was built. In a power struggle, this more rural little church was closed by the governing hierarchy and the congregation moved to join with a more urban sedate church due to the falling attendance in both.
    The acoustically amazing church building is maintained by a volunteer group who bring special fundraising events of which I have attended a number.
    As Cicero said, “Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all the others.”

  3. #63
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    My mother, definitely a lapsed Catholic, always said of the Church that at least it felt like one, with all the architecture and pageantry and vestments and censers and Latin and all. My partner and I went to a Catholic church in Beaverton when I lived there, and it was a huge letdown. No Latin, and all I remember was the priest talking about what time the CYO met, or the next potluck, or something. Not my idea of conducive to spirituality.

  4. #64
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosarugosa View Post
    I agree fully and my contempt for the Catholic church is absolute. I think women who identify as Catholic must have some degree of self-loathing, whether recognized or not.
    Rosa, I respectfully disagree. There are many extraordinary Catholic women. As for myself, even though I am totally lapsed, I "identify" as Catholic on a cellular level. I do not practice because I don't want to label myself as anything, and also, there are too many aspects of Catholicism that I can't subscribe to, but there are so many things I am drawn to, particularly the mysticism of it.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  5. #65
    Senior Member Tradd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosarugosa View Post
    I agree fully and my contempt for the Catholic church is absolute. I think women who identify as Catholic must have some degree of self-loathing, whether recognized or not.
    Would you also say that about women who are Muslim?

    Some on the left have a really weird disconnect about Islam. They’ll go on and on about religion of peace crap, but conveniently ignore the treatment of women and gays. Praise Islam to the moon and back. Yet they’ll go out of their way to tear down Christianity.

  6. #66
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    Noone actually experiences Islam as that much of an effect on western culture (sure it has historically and all that but really noone experiences Muslim influence on U.S. culture much because it's just not there in any directly tracable form, while Catholic males make our very laws making sure women can't have birth control etc., it's in your face).

    So yes it would indeed be a really weird disconnect to be obsessing on Islamic influence and living in the U.S. (as opposed to living in a Muslim country which is an entirely different situation, if women don't like living in Saudi Arabia hey, but alas the U.S. has also encouraged extreme forms of Islam so there is also that as well, it didn't all evolve organically). It would be like going on and on about how horrible Confucianism was for the U.S.. Well make the case if you can, that it's really an unrecognized major philosophical influence, but say what?
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  7. #67
    Senior Member Tradd's Avatar
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    You didn’t answer my question. Would you consider a woman who is Muslim to have self-loathing? My area has a large population of Muslims. I see women fully covered up in the grocery store - it’s not uncommon to see only eyes uncovered. Large families quite often.

    Regardless of what you think of the Catholic Church, the average female member isn’t going around all covered up.

  8. #68
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Of the top of my head a catholic who choose not to full on practice Catholicism can still fit in because in the US that is considered acceptable. A Muslim woman who chooses not to practice has to have made a decision to not be a full on Muslim. Since Islam is t the main religion here that puts them on the outside in a way that a non practicing catholic doesn’t have to suffer. Catherine is a perfect example. Most of us accept her view of herself as a lapsed but still catholic woman. But if she was a lapsed Muslim would we really look at her in the same way as a non lapsed Muslim? That difference is key, and part of why it’s different to be part of the majority religion versus part of a minority religion.

  9. #69
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    The hard thing is most Catholics live in the modern western world and that is the world they want to impose their laws on. And it doesn't work. And Muslims in the U.S., shrug I do not know if they do or not.

    The Catholics who I knew growing up, one wrote an anti-abortion essay, later was pregnant and had an abortion by high school (probably didn't use birth control though! there is that right?). Another was as boy crazy as they come. Sheesh, they always seems straight out crazy to me back then (boys, boys, boys). So Catholics lol. This was public school, my bf went to catholic school, none of those people are catholic now, of course many of them like my bf were never even raised catholic otherwise, just thought the education was better than public schools offered and well you have to be rich to afford a secular private school.
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  10. #70
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    There used to be large beautiful Catholic churches in every small community in Quebec. I was surprised to see so many closed and vacant or repurposed as the adherents have left the ship.

    One small but beautiful church nearby is noted for its acoustics. Engineering students come to see how it was built. In a power struggle, this more rural little church was closed by the governing hierarchy and the congregation moved to join with a more urban sedate church due to the falling attendance in both.
    The acoustically amazing church building is maintained by a volunteer group who bring special fundraising events of which I have attended a number.
    That sounds lovely and it is a .yeoman’s job to keep these 19th century churches whole.

    As for the Latin mass, two blocks away in my neighborhood is a Catholic church that does everything in Latin. Women wear things on their heads. It is a congregation that did not adopt Vatican II.

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