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Thread: Why every statue should come down

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    Everything old is new again--Jim Crow, fascism, the robber barons, keep reappearing like noxious weeds and have to be beaten back, apparently.
    At least as hackneyed insults.

  2. #22
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    At least as hackneyed insults.
    Is it one, two or all three that you refuse to believe is coming back?

  3. #23
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    Yes, I agree with the museums as a solution. They will "fit" in a museum if considered history, art or both.
    To give pleasure to a single heart by a single act is better than a thousand heads bowing in prayer." Mahatma Gandhi
    Be nice whenever possible. It's always possible. HH Dalai Lama
    In a world where you can be anything - be kind. Unknown

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    Is it one, two or all three that you refuse to believe is coming back?
    More as memes than in actuality.

    The party that invented “Jim Crow” to pretend to protect white people from black people now uses it as an epithet to pretend they are protecting black people from white people. They apply it to any election law change, no matter how trivial, to try justifying a bill that would seize power allocated by the Constitution to the states, violate the privacy of donors and limit speech.

    The “Robber Baron” charge is the overlap of two myths. The first is that we could provide some vision of a Euro-welfare state without a Euro-tax regime. We just need to soak the rich. And happily, the second myth is that the rich came by their wealth dishonesty and unfairly and therefore deserve a good soaking.

    And “fascist” has been so overused and trivialized in progressive polemic that it has the rhetorical value of Zimbabwean currency. It has been reduced to a sort of constant term in formulaic thinking for anything even vaguely undesirable. A reductio ad hitlerum.

  5. #25
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    For the record, no one believes it when republicans pull the ‘but we’re the party of Lincoln’ BS when discussing racism. Political parties and their members change over time. There is simply no connection between the ‘party of Lincoln’ and the current ‘the party of the big lie.’

    Similarly their is not a lot of connection between the party of Jim Crow and the Democrats today. If only for the reason that many of the Jim Crow democrats switched to the Republican Party after their party passed the civil rights acts.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    For the record, no one believes it when republicans pull the ‘but we’re the party of Lincoln’ BS when discussing racism. Political parties and their members change over time. There is simply no connection between the ‘party of Lincoln’ and the current ‘the party of the big lie.’

    Similarly their is not a lot of connection between the party of Jim Crow and the Democrats today. If only for the reason that many of the Jim Crow democrats switched to the Republican Party after their party passed the civil rights acts.
    That's an interesting take on things even if it's mostly BS since both the 1957 and 1964 civil rights bills passed with near unanimous Republican support along with a small minority of Democratic party support. I kind of admire people willing to go to such great lengths to justify their delusions.

    But more importantly, I find it really interesting in the context of this discussion to see folks support removing statues or other memorabilia because of their 'history' while ignoring or downplaying the 'history' of their favorite ideological institutions. By your own statue logic your political party should be shunned and relegated to the ash heap of history for it's actions, and yet, it's not. Weird.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  7. #27
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Feel free to deny that the south was a Democratic stronghold until after the civil rights bills passed but it was. As Nixon strategist Kevin Phillips stated in a NY Times interview in 1970 explaining Nixon's Southern Strategy "From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don't need any more than that... but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That's where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats."

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    Feel free to deny that the south was a Democratic stronghold until after the civil rights bills passed but it was.
    I've never denied the south was a Democratic stronghold but having been a southerner during that period I remember things a little differently. I seem to recall mass defections from the party of slavery and the KKK over social welfare programs designed to increase dependence and purchase votes.

    I think it's important to consider all the options of the time. Why would a southern Democrat become a Republican based on disapproval of civil rights legislation when it was the Republicans who provided those protections? No, I think those former Democrats simply disapproved of the Democrats social dependence agenda. Remember that they were the descendants of the Confederacy and well remembered all powerful government intrusion into lives. Believe it or not, not all personal decisions are based on race.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  9. #29
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Strom Thurmond would probably disagree with your odd perception of history.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    Strom Thurmond would probably disagree with your odd perception of history.
    I would think that even Strom Thurmond might think it odd that all this time later the Democratic Party is still fixated on race as a means to divide people and make their members feel better about themselves.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

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