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Thread: It IS real.....

  1. #81
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    But DH and I have both interviewed people whose interview questions to us were "Is there a shopping center close by? I want to be able to shop on my lunch hour." "How often do I have to work past 5pm?"
    you think they could answer the shopping center question themselves, if it's a big deal then sheesh drive around a bit nearby, even google maps if you don't even want to bother to drive around. The overtime I ask about, working hours are actually a basic parameter of the job. To not ask about that is like saying to not even ask the pay, maybe not right away, but it's something you ought to know going in, you shouldn't accept the job and say "oh btw what were you going to pay me?", or not ask about benefits "oh btw now that I've taken the job can you tell me if I will have health insurance?". I can see not asking about say benefits out of rank desperation but it's something an employee should have a right to know. Hours are on the same basic basic level (unfortunately people can lie about hours so it's harder to be sure).
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  2. #82
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    The shopping center question is indicative to me of immaturity. That might be OK if you were hiring, oh I don’t know p, in my library shelvers or perhaps clerk one positions in back room operations. People right out of high school would be asking those questions.

  3. #83
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    "How often do I have to work past 5pm?"
    I think the person asking that question benefits themselves with a bit of context. If they're asking because they rely on public transportation or because they have a child to pick up on a timely basis at school or day care, it's not unreasonable to ask the question. If they're asking to determine the company policy on customers/clients who come in seeking full service ten minutes before the business closes for the day, it's informational and indicative of how the company manages its hours. I realize that there are questions prospective employers cannot ask, but there is information that prospective employees can volunteer.

    On the other hand, maybe we needed some context about the question from catherine herself. 🤔
    Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome. - Booker T. Washington

  4. #84
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveinMN View Post
    On the other hand, maybe we needed some context about the question from catherine herself. ��
    You are right--of course there may be legitimate extenuating circumstances where possible overtime would be an issue for a new hire. And I admit that the companies I've worked for have been typically companies with a culture of non-clock-watchers. There were many nights when I "punched out" at 2-3am.

    But I think in an interview setting, as ANM alluded to, there are ways to find that information out without making the potential employer wonder if you're a slacker. I hired a project manager once who seemed to be very good and well-qualified. On her first day I took her out to lunch and it was only then I learned that she had just had her second child two weeks prior. She hadn't brought it up in the interview setting. Of course, it would have been fine with me if she had brought it up--I was a working mother myself, but I think prospective employees have to put themselves in the employer's shoes and make sure it's apparent that THEY are the ones being interviewed and not the employer. They come in with a take-it-or-leave-it attitude that's very off-putting.

    Some of those practical questions about hours and pay etc. are more discretely asked to HR, not your prospective boss.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  5. #85
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    This conversation is giving me flashbacks to the awfulness of working for a living and dancing at the end of someone else's puppet strings.
    Next life, trust fund.

  6. #86
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    If an employment agreement is indeed such potential employees have a basic right to know the conditions of the agreement. This is really basic. Hours are such a condition. I mean come on if one is trading hours for pay, hello, one has a right to know how many hours that will be, at least a realistic estimate, as well as for how much pay. How else are they supposed to make an informed decision (oh they are supposed to be so desperate as to be near slaves, slaves didn't know how many hours they will work, yes are we hiring employees or slaves?)

    Now of course one can't know everything about a job before they take it, so in reality going into a job is a bit of a stab in the dark. And of course in most employees eyes there is a real difference between occasional overtime and regularly working long hours but how hard is it for an employer to explain it as one or the other "occasionally there will be the need to put in overtime for a big project, for black friday, a few times a year" or "we expect you to work part days on saturday as well as monday-friday" etc.. If they are so reluctant it's because they don't want you to know, which borders on deception.

    There does not need to be any legitimate extenuating circumstances, and besides who decides those circumstances are so legit anyway, what's so special about those snowflakes? Rather everyone should have a right to know the basic conditions of their employment before they take a job. And no potential employees should not be volunteering any of this irrelevant information like whether they have kids etc., granted lots of info is out on the web anyway, but this is all potential grounds for discrimination. Noone should be "I have kids so could you tell me my work hours" or "I practice the sabbath, do we have to work on weekends?" to just find out what the work hours are. People do try to find out what they can without asking, it's why glassdoor exists, but it's often very hard, and glassdoor tends like most things to get comments with extreme reactions, so everywhere has terrible reviews, but really everywhere isn't terrible, or maybe only is if you work for that one bad boss, but how to know?
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  7. #87
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    This conversation is giving me flashbacks to the awfulness of working for a living and dancing at the end of someone else's puppet strings.
    Next life, trust fund.
    Haha!! I knew this was going to push buttons somewhere. Sometimes I feel like two people in one body--the one "of the world" and the one "apart" from it. The part "OF the world" tells me that I'm ingrained in this culture, where you learn quickly it's not fun bouncing checks with the lunch lady at your kids' school and having your son made fun of because they're wearing cast-offs from a kid in the neighborhood. So you do what you can to survive which is adopt the persona that is going to enable you to overcome that. You swallow self help books whole and take employment risks and work yourself silly and feign competence so that someday you can send those embarrassed kids to a good school and dress them well and they'll no longer be embarrassed.

    The "apart from this world" persona is the one that thinks the basic wage-slave nature of the culture is nuts and that there has to be a better way. The persona that is most comfortable living the simple life. But it was that other world that drove me to where I am today and I'm grateful. I learned a lot about myself, and I learned a lot about other things, too. I was challenged and did things I never thought I could. No regrets, and no apologies.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  8. #88
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    It's ridiculous to think every employee is going to have whatever values you do (and I don't mean whether they are going to do a good job, that's a reasonable thing to expect. Rather, I mean maybe they don't have kids, so sacrificing everything for financing their kids is just NOT a value they have and it would be absurd to think it, maybe their partner makes enough money that that's not a prime concern etc.).

    They have a right to make decisions based on their own circumstances. And that means they have a right to know the basics of their employment, pay, hours, benefits, a general outline of what work they will be doing (for instance, don't hire an "bookkeeper" in an ad and that's what they think they will be doing, and make them do sales all day instead, that's just dishonest). Much else about employment is harder to know before you leap. But basic stuff.
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  9. #89
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore View Post
    It's ridiculous to think every employee is going to have whatever values you do (and I don't mean whether they are going to do a good job, that's a reasonable thing to expect. Rather, I mean maybe they don't have kids, so sacrificing everything for financing their kids is just NOT a value they have and it would be absurd to think it, maybe their partner makes enough money that that's not a prime concern etc.).

    They have a right to make decisions based on their own circumstances. And that means they have a right to know the basics of their employment, pay, hours, benefits, a general outline of what work they will be doing (for instance, don't hire an "bookkeeper" in an ad and that's what they think they will be doing, and make them do sales all day instead, that's just dishonest). Much else about employment is harder to know before you leap. But basic stuff.
    True. But I do expect an employee to do their job, and if there are two employees to choose from, equally qualified, and one acts like they really want the job and the other one doesn't, I know which one I'm going to pick.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
    www.silententry.wordpress.com

  10. #90
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    I generally got the jobs I interviewed for, but I had a phone interview with Microsoft where I couldn't even begin to evince an interest in whatever obscure product they were involved with. It was a complete waste of time for both of us.

    And I know you're supposed to show almost giddy enthusiasm for the task at hand, but I could rarely manifest that, either. I don't have much of a work ethic, and I'm not ashamed to admit that. I did the job I was assigned, and in some cases more, and earned my pay.

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