Let the debate begin?

[frugal-one]

IL …Did you fact check all the “lies”? By your own admission you do not watch the new so wonder where you get your information? BTW I don’t have an answer to the question I posed earlier other than those who intentionally lie to cause problems should be vilified (ie saying Haitians are eating pets). To me, this is not free speech …

[Rogar]

Rachel Maddow lied about Covid issues. Anthony Fauci lied about Covid issues. Their audiences were huge and no doubt caused at least some people “pain.” What should be, in your justice system, their punishment? Joe Biden lied when he was running for a 2nd term because he had said he would stay only 4 years.

Is it a lie when you say or espouse something you believe to be true at the time, but turns out wrong, compared to knowing something isn't true and being intentionally deceptive? Are they both lies.

In a away we are a nation of deceivers, or at least I can get that impression after watching network TV ads.

[LDAHL]

I think the VP debate is a good example of how difficult regulating “the truth” can be. Margaret Brennan inserts herself into the debate by attacking Vance’s characterization of Haitian immigrants, Vance responds by pointing out that “temporary protected status” is a fig leaf category used to launder immigration statistics. Brennan makes a sneering comment and shuts off his microphone. The Washington Post editorial board calls her behavior ridiculous. Is there anyone completely right or wrong here?

For myself, I think we’d do more harm than good trying to create institutions to certify and enforce “truth” for the masses. What panel of epistocratic experts could we trust for that purpose? The people who told us Joe Biden was in great mental shape? Who said Hunter Biden’s laptop was Russian trickery? The people who claimed the election was stolen?

Whose credentials would you trust to man the ramparts against lies, damned lies and biased fact-checking? None that I can think of. My hope is that any attempt to create government approved truth meets with the derision it deserves.

[iris lilies]

I think the VP debate is a good example of how difficult regulating “the truth” can be. Margaret Brennan inserts herself into the debate by attacking Vance’s characterization of Haitian immigrants, Vance responds by pointing out that “temporary protected status” is a fig leaf category used to launder immigration statistics. Brennan makes a sneering comment and shuts off his microphone. The Washington Post editorial board calls her behavior ridiculous. Is there anyone completely right or wrong here?

For myself, I think we’d do more harm than good trying to create institutions to certify and enforce “truth” for the masses. What panel of epistocratic experts could we trust for that purpose? The people who told us Joe Biden was in great mental shape? Who said Hunter Biden’s laptop was Russian trickery? The people who claimed the election was stolen?

Whose credentials would you trust to man the ramparts against lies, damned lies and biased fact-checking? None that I can think of. My hope is that any attempt to create government approved truth meets with the derision it deserves.

Exactly! about determining Truth with a capital T.

And I didn’t even know about the widespread immigration system use of “temporary protected status” until this debate.

Maybe TPS can be used responsibly, maybe it *Is* often used responsibly. But again, maybe not depending on the situation and it puts a new meaning on “legal” immigration.

Which circles back to my thought last week that maybe “legal” immigration isn't the answer if our government can easily flip a switch to redefine “legal.” This ties to the riots in the UK about immigration…governments are not limiting immigration in ways citizens wish they would.

[iris lilies]

I watched it.. I almost turned it off when he started talking "drill, baby, drill" but I was committed to watching it with an open mind.. I don't know why, frankly.. I knew Dave would be a big fan. He's very conservative, and very Republican, so the tenor was as if he had invited the minister to lunch. Very friendly, and less than half of the the time devoted to policy. The rest was general friendly conversation about golf courses (Trump's course in Scotland) and the evils of drugs, alcohol and cigarettes. I know you know what it was about, IL. I providing a synopsis for others.

I watched this Ramsey interview yesterday. It did not instill confidence in me in any way. MAYBE the only Trump bit I liked was his plan to lower business tax on those who manufacture their product in the U.S.

[frugal-one]

Tell me what consequences you want to see when people lie.

Rachel Maddow lied about Covid issues. Anthony Fauci lied about Covid issues. Their audiences were huge and no doubt caused at least some people “pain.” What should be, in your justice system, their punishment? Joe Biden lied when he was running for a 2nd term because he had said he would stay only 4 years.

I do not think either Rachel or Tony Fauci or President Joe should experience the heavy hand of law, they get enough pushback in the public square.

I guess I should have said earlier that I don’t believe Fauci lied about covid issues because there was not a manual explaining what to expect or know. Fauci gave what he thought was sound advice and then science proved in some cases to be wrong. That is not lying IMO. He did not knowingly go out of his way to purposely cause pain or malaise. Nor do I feel Biden lied when he decided to run for a second term. He changed his mind after seeing the threat trump posed. We all have had times when we changed our mind because a situation has changed. And, I have no idea what you are referring to regarding Rachel?

[frugal-one]

I think the VP debate is a good example of how difficult regulating “the truth” can be. Margaret Brennan inserts herself into the debate by attacking Vance’s characterization of Haitian immigrants, Vance responds by pointing out that “temporary protected status” is a fig leaf category used to launder immigration statistics. Brennan makes a sneering comment and shuts off his microphone. The Washington Post editorial board calls her behavior ridiculous. Is there anyone completely right or wrong here?

For myself, I think we’d do more harm than good trying to create institutions to certify and enforce “truth” for the masses. What panel of epistocratic experts could we trust for that purpose? The people who told us Joe Biden was in great mental shape? Who said Hunter Biden’s laptop was Russian trickery? The people who claimed the election was stolen?

Whose credentials would you trust to man the ramparts against lies, damned lies and biased fact-checking? None that I can think of. My hope is that any attempt to create government approved truth meets with the derision it deserves.

Vance said he gave an alternative truth (ie lie) when he stated Haitians were eating pets. He is a liar. He shows his credentials are not worthy of consideration! trump has been shown to have committed over 30,000 proven lies. Neither can ever be trusted. Based on their previous history, everything out of their mouths needs to be scrutinized and fact checked IMO. It shows what the republican party has become by endorsing these two to be their representatives?

[jp1]

The Haitian immigrants are here LEGALLY. there is no other way to describe them. You can argue about whether the way they came here was appropriate but you CAN NOT say they came here illegally. **** Vance and the ugly horse he rode in on. Side note you also can’t make up BS about them eating pets if they aren’t eating pets. That's just weird. But weird tracks for a loser like jd Vance.

[gimmethesimplelife]

The Haitian immigrants are here LEGALLY. there is no other way to describe them. You can argue about whether the way they came here was appropriate but you CAN NOT say they came here illegally. **** Vance and the ugly horse he rode in on. Side note you also can’t make up BS about them eating pets if they aren’t eating pets. That's just weird. But weird tracks for a loser like jd Vance.

+ 10,000. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Vance said he gave an alternative truth (ie lie) when he stated Haitians were eating pets. He is a liar. He shows his credentials are not worthy of consideration! trump has been shown to have committed over 30,000 proven lies. Neither can ever be trusted. Based on their previous history, everything out of their mouths needs to be scrutinized and fact checked IMO. It shows what the republican party has become by endorsing these two to be their representatives?

It's clear to me going forward that the GOP wishes to position itself as the enemy of the people it deems less than worthy of existence. Austria in 1938 much? Rob