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Thread: Let the debate begin?

  1. #61
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyHiker View Post
    I encourage all who believe in our country & democracy to not have a defeatist attitude--but to fight for what we believe in.

    What will YOU do to make sure democracy prevails?

    A defeatist attitude is simply that--defeatist.

    Fight, vote, change attitudes & minds.
    yes! Thank you.

  2. #62
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    I think we'll remain a Constitutional Republic despite Democrats efforts to convert to a pure democracy, and a Supreme Court adhering to constitutional principles rather than the emotional flashpoint du jour is a feature I'd hate to lose.

    I'm not up to speed on Project 2025, actually I'd never heard of it prior to yesterday and suspect it's something someone came up with after the Supremes decided that unelected bureaucrats cannot take the legislature's place in creating law. Maybe I'm wrong, I'll have to look a little further into it.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  3. #63
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    I'm not up to speed on Project 2025, actually I'd never heard of it prior to yesterday and suspect it's something someone came up with after the Supremes decided that unelected bureaucrats cannot take the legislature's place in creating law. Maybe I'm wrong, I'll have to look a little further into it.
    First I've heard of it and I had to look it up. The part about reclassifying thousands of civil service jobs to government appointments, then filling the jobs with republican appointments, was the first thing that caught my eye. I can see where people have concerns about it inciting violence.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
    "what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" Mary Oliver

  4. #64
    Senior Member rosarugosa's Avatar
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  5. #65
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    How many people actually believe that democracy is hanging by a thread? When Rachel Maddow talks about being sent to a camp, should a reasonable person take her seriously? Do constitutional checks and balances no longer apply? Or are we being subjected to a lot of perfervid rhetoric?

    I think DJT would be somewhere between mediocre and dreadful in a second term, but it seems ridiculous to me that it would somehow be possible for him to seize dictatorial powers that he didn’t seize in his first term.

    If the Democrats believed their own propaganda would they really have chosen Joe Biden as our savior? Our have they just run out of ideas?

  6. #66
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    How many people actually believe that democracy is hanging by a thread? When Rachel Maddow talks about being sent to a camp, should a reasonable person take her seriously? Do constitutional checks and balances no longer apply? Or are we being subjected to a lot of perfervid rhetoric?
    Both sides are spreading some irrational paranoia, but I see the 2020 election as being one Mike Pence away from risking the loss of Democracy as know know it. I sure don't see the dismal country the MAGA folks campaign on. Biden has been a mistake. I seem to recall he was elected as a one term president to beat Trump and it should have stayed that way. It's a mess, but not without choices that could make a difference in our future.
    "what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" Mary Oliver

  7. #67
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    How many people actually believe that democracy is hanging by a thread? When Rachel Maddow talks about being sent to a camp, should a reasonable person take her seriously? Do constitutional checks and balances no longer apply? Or are we being subjected to a lot of perfervid rhetoric?

    I think DJT would be somewhere between mediocre and dreadful in a second term, but it seems ridiculous to me that it would somehow be possible for him to seize dictatorial powers that he didn’t seize in his first term.

    If the Democrats believed their own propaganda would they really have chosen Joe Biden as our savior? Our have they just run out of ideas?
    I think that the way the Supreme Court is chosen automatically compromises the checks and balances of the legislative and executive branches. The left-leaning justices will vote for Roe v Wade every time. The right-wing justices will vote to limit abortion rights every time. They are human beings, and the scales of justice are definitely tipped in one way or another, depending upon which way the wind is blowing.

    Freedom and democracy mean different things to different people. Some think freedom is the unfettered right to bear arms, no matter who owns them, and what kind of arms they bear. Others feel freedom is the right to send children to school without the fear of them being terrorized and killed in a massacre by an AK-47--wielding mentally ill individual.

    I personally feel that the freedoms of everyday citizens are limited by the whims of the oligarchy. I think that believing we're free is part illusion, because of the money that is used to support that belief.

    I fear for Steve Bannon and DJT and their ilk to seize power because I truly believe that they do not have the common good at heart. I'm not saying there aren't powerful Democrats wielding their swords as well, but I think if I were to lose freedoms by one party vs the other, I'd opt for the party that takes away the freedom to outlaw the common rights of its citizens whether we "approve" of them or not. I vote for metrics that take into account more than GDP and Wall Street stock prices.

    This article is scary. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/01/o...sultPosition=4

    The ultra-right wants to return to what they wrongly believe is a "Christian" nation and that alone make me skeptical that democracy will thrive under the next administration if DJT winds up back in the White House. And, as someone who believes that the health of the natural world is essential to survival, I fear for propaganda that perpetrates the narrative that we are the masters of the universe and that the ecosystem is so much bitcoin for trading. If we are bible-thumping people--haven't we learned anything from Noah? Are we going to have to scramble to save the last of our non-human brothers and sisters? Or ourselves--just to maintain our current lifestyle?
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  8. #68
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Dana Carvey was doing impressions of old, tired, and out-of-it President Biden years ago.

    https://m.youtube.com/shorts/IQ7Gi2Eul4E

  9. #69
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    Dana Carvey was doing impressions of old, tired, and out-of-it President Biden years ago.

    https://m.youtube.com/shorts/IQ7Gi2Eul4E
    Brilliant! "Where's the mother ship?"

  10. #70
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    President Biden is in Wisconsin campaigning this afternoon and he’s shouting with vitality and he assured everyone he’s not dropping out of the race and he is by God going to “beat Trump in 2020.”

    Yes, he really said that.

    Where is the hook to remove him from this stage of politics?

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