A Sense of Place / Belonging: Need Your Thoughts

[Rogar]

Rogar, I used John O'Donohue's book, Beauty, for my chapter on "Beauty Is A Fundamental Need." I also listened to an interview between him and Krista Tippet, interestingly enough... was it you that suggested it in an earlier thread?? Is this interview the same one I listened to? I'll check it out. Anyway, I found a lot of inspiration in his book and in the interview.

It made me wish I hadn't donated my copy of Anam Cara to the lbirary when I left NJ.

Apologies if it was a re run. It's a favorite I come back to and may have forgotten I mentioned it. I've read a couple of his books, but they are a little dense. I think in context, it's not as much where we live, but how we perceive it. In the least, I did enjoy hearing his voice again today.

I think part of a sense of place is knowing the history of the land and culture. I live where, until the post war building boom, was a truck farm for vegetables. There is a park a couple of blocks away that bears the name of one of the original farmers, and one can hunt up an old photo from a historical society showing him with his farm implements and just a building or two. At one time I dated a grand daughter or great grand daughter of the family. Before that there are some references of Arapaho camps and every performance of the local theater they start with a reminder of the Native Americans whose land we now live on. I belong to the historical society of my birthplace and their monthly publication has stories of not just the pioneers, but some of the old established businesses and the families who have owned them or the characters of the neighborhoods back when.

Colorado has been a popular place for people to move to. I have good friends who came here in the 1970's or so because they thought it was a giant playground for recreation, which is true, but has little to do with a sense of place. Although now, they've climbed most of the "14ers" and traveled to the smaller towns and out of the way places and I think their sense of place is in the beauty of the landscape. I lived in a small town in the mountains for about a year. Tourists would come in the summer time but the winters were miserable. I never really got a sense of place for it having a large temporary population of tourists in the summer and long winters. The locals did have a very strong heritage in mining and some were third generation hard rock miners. Unfortunately at some collapse of metals a decade or two ago, it's now t-short shops and cafes, but I think the locals still have some pride in their heritage as well as the new comers. I have another friend who is from Iowa, but a geologist who can name and give a history of about every rock formation you would encounter.

There are young people who have moved here for work or it being a trendy place and live in high rises downtown and maybe downhill ski on winter weekends. I have wondered about any sense of place they might have. Just living in a place with beautiful landscapes near by doesn't qualify. I did a quick google search and a line that came up was, "You can't know who you are until you know where you are".

[iris lilies]

Apologies if it was a re run. It's a favorite I come back to and may have forgotten I mentioned it. I've read a couple of his books, but they are a little dense. I think in context, it's not as much where we live, but how we perceive it. In the least, I did enjoy hearing his voice again today.

I think part of a sense of place is knowing the history of the land and culture. I live where, until the post war building boom, was a truck farm for vegetables. There is a park a couple of blocks away that bears the name of one of the original farmers, and one can hunt up an old photo from a historical society showing him with his farm implements and just a building or two. At one time I dated a grand daughter or great grand daughter of the family. Before that there are some references of Arapaho camps and every performance of the local theater they start with a reminder of the Native Americans whose land we now live on. I belong to the historical society of my birthplace and their monthly publication has stories of not just the pioneers, but some of the old established businesses and the families who have owned them or the characters of the neighborhoods back when.

Colorado has been a popular place for people to move to. I have good friends who came here in the 1970's or so because they thought it was a giant playground for recreation, which is true, but has little to do with a sense of place. Although now, they've climbed most of the "14ers" and traveled to the smaller towns and out of the way places and I think their sense of place is in the beauty of the landscape. I lived in a small town in the mountains for about a year. Tourists would come in the summer time but the winters were miserable. I never really got a sense of place for it having a large temporary population of tourists in the summer and long winters. The locals did have a very strong heritage in mining and some were third generation hard rock miners. Unfortunately at some collapse of metals a decade or two ago, it's now t-short shops and cafes, but I think the locals still have some pride in their heritage as well as the new comers. I have another friend who is from Iowa, but a geologist who can name and give a history of about every rock formation you would encounter.

There are young people who have moved here for work or it being a trendy place and live in high rises downtown and maybe downhill ski on winter weekends. I have wondered about any sense of place they might have. Just living in a place with beautiful landscapes near by doesn't qualify. I did a quick google search and a line that came up was, "You can't know who you are until you know where you are".

I remember when it seemed like everyone in Iowa who was moving away went to Colorado. That was the 1970’s. I do not know of anyone in recent decades to do that.

You mention the history of a place. That is one reason I prefer Missouri to my home state of Iowa. The history seems more interesting, to me anyway. Just last week I heard a tale of Confederate soldiers invading a homestead in
Hermann. That Civil War conflict played out here, a state that supported
union army but also the other one sorta. A strange tension.

Iowa didn’t have that kind of conflict and Central Iowa is just plain boring white-bread flatlands (although the soil is superb!)

[pinkytoe]

Thinking more about this...my sense of place comes from childhood memories on the other side of the Continental Divide. The place where we visited grandparents in the summer, explored the mountains and old mining towns that my mother grew up in...the towns my ancestors helped establish and where those of that generation are buried as well as my mother and little brother. Once mountains and memories are etched into your soul, it is hard to let them go. Funny Iris should mention pets. I am certain my old Siamese cat detests the cold here and dreams of his green leafy environment back in Texas - mosquitos and all. The first time he encountered walking through snow here was very comical.

[sweetana3]

So, as you may know, I'm working on a book with a roadmap for making a move away from the current culture and toward a better, saner life.

I'm on the 5th of 9 steps now... and it has to do with finding where you belong, geographically.

I know that many of you have moved over the last decade: I'm thinking specifically of pinkytoe, frugal-one, iris lilies, Tybee but everyone has at one point in teir lives made a move and either felt like they belonged, or felt like a fish out of water.

Can you please share your experiences using the following prompts:

1) Describe a time when you said to yourself, "This is where I belong." What did that feel like? What emotion was it stirring up for you? What was it based on? History? Values? Sense memory? Aesthetics? Energy?

2) The opposite: What has made you feel that you didn't belong in a particular place? Describe the place and why you felt that way.

3) How did you resolve that feeling? Or, how did you at least adapt to it? Do you feel that adaptation is sustainable?

4) If you have moved from a place you didn't feel you belonged in, what were you looking for? What is your "Kansas" (vs. Oz)?

5) In the scheme of things, how important is it to you to "get back to where you once belonged"? Why? If you haven't done it yet, what are your plans for that? If you have returned to a place you feel you belong in, what has been the benefit of that? How is your life different? Please describe the feelings.

Please feel free to comment here, or DM me.

I was raised in Alaska (from 6months). It will ALWAYS be where I consider home. The views, the weather changes, the simplicity all call me back. But my hubby says I remember with rose colored glasses. Even now at 70, a picture brings back so many wonderful memories. We would probably still be there if the job issue did not happen in 1977. Sadly, it is not the state for a retired person with Alaska's significantly reduced Medicare options.

We have been in IN for over 40 years. Tried NC for 3 years. I liked the state of NC but the suburbs killed me. had just been accepted into a new career program when my husband's company moved us back to IN. A totally car based culture is, for me, intolerable. Even in AK before we moved, I walked over a mile every work day and took the bus to get to work regardless of the weather. IN now is "comfortable". We live right downtown and know where to access services, how and when to attend events, how to avoid issues like traffic or dangerous area, where senior housing can be found, etc. As I said "comfortable".

It was good to have the ability to "try" a new state. NC showed us that nowhere is perfect. I am much more satisfied to stay in IN after having that time in NC and also having traveled to many other states.

[Rogar]

You mention the history of a place. That is one reason I prefer Missouri to my home state of Iowa. The history seems more interesting, to me anyway. Just last week I heard a tale of Confederate soldiers invading a homestead in
Hermann. That Civil War conflict played out here, a state that supported
union army but also the other one sorta. A strange tension.

I remember you are a fan of the Detectorists. Maybe it's common knowledge, but in my utube time sink I discovered there are many detectorists here in the states that search old farmsteads and battlegrounds. They find a of of buttons and bullets. They probably hope for the holy grail, but seem to get excited about a crusted over old penny or dime. That's sort of a sense of place. A detectorist quote I ran across not long ago was, it's not the objects we dig up, but the stories they uncover.

[LDAHL]

My journey through life has been largely unburdened by a strong aesthetic sense. Where circumstances have permitted, I’ve chosen places to live the same way I’ve chosen clothing or cars. I look at cost, comfort and utility. I don’t get much from the beauty or quaintness of my surroundings, especially after the first few months. I figure if you’ve seen one mountain or ocean, you’ve seen them all. Travel leaves me cold for much the same reason.

I have lived in or around Chicago, Boston, Los Angeles, Milwaukee, rural Central Wisconsin, Green Bay and a small city on the shore of Lake Michigan. Now that work is no longer a constraint, we have settled on the small city. For one thing, the cost of living is much more reasonable and crime isn’t much of an issue. Apart from a few medical needs, we can get to anything we need in ten or fifteen minutes. The people are by and large friendly, and you don’t see much of the desperate status anxiety that bedevils so many people in the big cities.

It may not be much to look at, but I’m happy to run down the clock here.

[littlebittybobby]

okay----iwah is okay in some ways, but not sure what those ways are(ha), and i lived in Eastern Wa for 6 years, left and never looked back, Ak for a couple years and it really had possibilities but I was just not quite up to the task of staying there, so back to iwah, where EVERYTHING revolves around Agribusiness. Yup. So, anyway---, Zurra might seem an unlikely place, but it is more diverse & quirky for the person who likes to be themselves than iwah OR even Wa, and like Faux sez: it has a rich history. Lots of it. Usta be cheap to live, but the housing bubble keeps looming larger and larger. So, I can't move. See? But yeah---here's a random photo o' some Studebakers out in New Mexico and then a car(or truck) seat some patrieurotic person had recovered. (see photos). Yup. Thankk mee.

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[rosarugosa]

I have a very strong sense of place; I put down a tap root like an oak tree! While I could imagine myself perhaps living in another town, I could never imagine leaving New England.
I don't find it easy to make friends other than on a superficial level, so as I get older, I feel like it makes more sense than ever to stay in the place where I've lived most of my life. I know people and places and resources, and now I belong to groups such as the pottery studio and the Lynn Woods Garden Club. I get a lot of value from the beauty of my surroundings, and there is much pleasure to be had from living on the river. I have a deep love for Lynn Woods, which I consider to be "my woods," with its soon-to-be-restored-to-glory Rose Garden, Dungeon Rock, Stone Tower, Steel Tower, Wolf Pits, Balanced Boulder . . . It's a magical, fairytale woods, hidden in plain sight in the city.
Covid and recent political events make me glad I live in an area largely aligned with my values overall, and where there is a reasonable amount of tolerance for differences in lifestyles and opinions. I belong to a few FB atheist groups, and it makes me realize how much easier it is to be an atheist in my area, something I had never considered.

[Portuguese John Here]

So, as you may know, I'm working on a book with a roadmap for making a move away from the current culture and toward a better, saner life.

Wonderful. Based on the subject, I think it's undeniably needed.

1) Describe a time when you said to yourself, "This is where I belong." What did that feel like? What emotion was it stirring up for you? What was it based on? History? Values? Sense memory? Aesthetics? Energy?

Well, I knew where I belonged after I left it. It's unusual. Often, you are where you know you don't belong, and you move somewhere else. How do you find that somewhere else? Finding the opposites. It's like everything else when you get there, you get a taste, and you know that's what you need.

I think you're asking about personal experience, so I'll give mine. I was raised in a place where everyone knew everyone. I went to the same school my mother went. My mother left school and went to work at a factory. I left school and went to work in the same factory. My colleagues did the same; their mothers were my mother's friends. Their mother worked in the same factory mine worked. Their grandmothers and grandfathers knew my grandmother and grandfather. The old people looked at me, they didn't care about my name; they made a judgment about who I was based on what my family was and is, my grandfathers and grandmothers. Those individuals were raised conditioned to that environment. I had the same teacher at school my mother had. My house had open doors. My mother would reprehend my friends the same way she reprehended me, and the same goes for everyone. I talk the same way they talk, I walk the same way they walk, I think the same way they think, and I value the same thing they value. This goes back to my grandfathers, and their grandfathers.

Now that I left, when I go there, I know I'm home. Every building is a memory; I don't even need to recall it or remember it; you look, and you feel it; it's home. It's an energy. I didn't move far away; we're talking about a 20-minute trip, but the difference in how people behave and what they value is completely different. I'd say it's a mixture of everything you said, it's difficult to explain in words. It ain't just nostalgia.

2) The opposite: What has made you feel that you didn't belong in a particular place? Describe the place and why you felt that way.

The value system I was raised with was not applicable. Being down-to-earth and speaking freely was considered a sign of ignorance or rudeness. They were people raised in different environments. It's the history of the place. For instance, my mother worked in cork and making shoes. Cork is a heavy industry; it's repetitive and it kills your lungs and back. Everyone, and I mean it, everyone, worked in that industry. Later on, she worked making shoes, and everyone, and I mean it, everyone, was making shoes. Imagine so many people doing that same thing in the same place, working for the same boss. That was not something my colleagues in the place I moved to had; their parents worked in diversified fields, some of them not even in the factories. Everything about the way they were was different—the way they looked, the way they smiled, the way they walked. I was not accustomed to it and still ain't.

3) How did you resolve that feeling? Or, how did you at least adapt to it? Do you feel that adaptation is sustainable?

I had to adapt. After some time, they knew that was just like how I was. After a while, people know it's not personal; the guy is just like that. Some find it funny, some find it interesting. But it's difficult. I can tell you I never found a sense of belonging. I question how my life would have been if I stayed where I was. Although certain aspects of my personality became useful at work.

4) If you have moved from a place you didn't feel you belonged in, what were you looking for? What is your "Kansas" (vs. Oz)?

Shared values are the most important. How do they live? What do they value? How do they behave? What they don't tolerate? How far are they willing to go to protect their community? Not in the sense of violence, but in the sense of reunion and common vision.

5) In the scheme of things, how important is it to you to "get back to where you once belonged"? Why? If you haven't done it yet, what are your plans for that? If you have returned to a place you feel you belong in, what has been the benefit of that? How is your life different? Please describe the feelings.

It's not very much important at the moment. I feel my colleagues didn't have the luck I had in much part. The place keeps being the same; they are in dead-end jobs with kids to raise. They lost vitality and joy. They drink and smoke; you'll see them old in the same pub. They go on the Sunday ride with the wife, because that's what you do. They live by the line it was given to them. They'll not deviate from that line. That line is history and tradition. I had a chance to think if that's what I wanted for my life. I don't have a wife; I'll be 30 years old in February next year. I don't have children's to worry about. I have a whole window of opportunity ahead of me. I'm focusing on my career for now. I'm focusing on getting fit. I'm focusing on testing myself. I have money—not much, but enough. I can reach 35, no wife, not kids, and say, let's become a WWOOFer (World-Wide Opportunities on Organic Farms), travel around working in farms. I have a farm, maybe invite people in. I can say, let's go to the ​Himalayas and meditate for a year. Let's go to India. I have the entire world of choices in front of me. That can be a curse to some, and what many of my friends are dreaming right now, at least I have a choice.

[iris lilies]

What a good thoughtful,response, John.