Fighting Authoritarianism with Authoritarianism

[LDAHL]

I see that the Vice President recently chided Europe for annulling elections and prosecuting speech they didn’t like. The German Defense Minister called his speech “not acceptable”, although he didn’t try arresting Vance.

Margaret Brennan at CBS lectured the Secretary of State about free speech leading to the Holocaust, which struck me as an odd position for a journalist to take. But then “Sixty Minutes” ran a strangely approving segment on the German police who scour the internet for thought crimes and dispatch special units to arrest the wrongthinkers.

Does it make any sense to try to “save democracy” via anti democrat means?

[Rogar]

I think we tend to judge other unique nations through American eyes. Maybe Germany isn't that much different from us in a lot of ways, but they have a cultural burden of the Holocaust and Nazi oppression. I appreciate the different points comparing our so called free speech to theirs, but I don't think we should be using our influences in their politics. I suspect they have a vestigial tendency to revert to earlier regimes. A person can see how extreme right elements can create a divided nation and mayhem. It's really not our issue.

[iris lilies]

I think we tend to judge other unique nations through American eyes. Maybe Germany isn't that much different from us in a lot of ways, but they have a cultural burden of the Holocaust and Nazi oppression. I appreciate the different points comparing our so called free speech to theirs, but I don't think we should be using our influences in their politics. I suspect they have a vestigial tendency to revert to earlier regimes. A person can see how extreme right elements can create a divided nation and mayhem. It's really not our issue.

Meanwhile, not far away from Germany, a country with no cultural burden of Nazi oppression is watching their Jewish citizens become increasingly ill at ease in their own country. Jews in parts of the UK are experiencing harassment to the point they are hiding religious symbols and are contemplating leaving the country.

It isn’t a return of The Far Right (or traditional Right anyway) it is harassment by Muslim citizens, aided by the British institutions that now tamp down on speech about their protected minorities. Assaulting Jews in the streets in the result. For law enforcement, it was forbidden to talk about (until now) gangs of Asian men raping girls.

so, in England it is not free and open discourse that is leading to a Nazi-like authoritarian regime. On the contrary, the government allows only correct speak and imprisons (yes, literally) those who speak about protected groups.

Keep in mind a significant percentage of Muslims are in favor of legal prosecution for those who simply draw a picture of the prophet Muhammad.

[LDAHL]

I think we tend to judge other unique nations through American eyes. Maybe Germany isn't that much different from us in a lot of ways, but they have a cultural burden of the Holocaust and Nazi oppression. I appreciate the different points comparing our so called free speech to theirs, but I don't think we should be using our influences in their politics. I suspect they have a vestigial tendency to revert to earlier regimes. A person can see how extreme right elements can create a divided nation and mayhem. It's really not our issue.

If their hostility to free expression stems from the Nazi era, then I would say they drew some tragically wrong conclusions from that period. While I agree that not every country has our glorious and exceptional tradition of “so called free speech”, I agree with Vance that if a government is fearful of the thoughts and beliefs of their own people then there may be very little America can or should do to help them.

I think that the enthusiasm some in government and media show for shutting people up is more about protecting the power of existing elites than protecting us from potential dictators.

[Rogar]

When it comes to Vance, I think he should realize that our enemies are not in Europe or China or Canada, but we have our own big problems internally caused by our own fascist regime, thus is not in a position to tell others how to run their media or politics.

It's the old expression of noticing the speck in the neighbors eye when one has a plank in his own.

[iris lilies]

When it comes to Vance, I think he should realize that our enemies are not in Europe or China or Canada, but we have our own big problems internally caused by our own fascist regime, thus is not in a position to tell others how to run their media or politics.

It's the old expression of noticing the speck in the neighbors eye when one has a plank in his own.

well, there is some truth to that.

[Alan]

...... we have our own big problems internally caused by our own fascist regime, thus is not in a position to tell others how to run their media or politics.

Which of our regimes would you consider fascist, and why?

[bae]

Weird to call out the Europeans on their free speech issues, given the rather Orwellian turn the US is taking recently with language, literature, and art.

[Rogar]

Which of our regimes would you consider fascist, and why?

The term seems to be somewhat fluid, however,

"Former President Donald Trump has recently been called a "fascist" by his former chief of staff, John Kelly, his opponent, Vice President Kamala Harris, and leading historian Robert Paxton.

"Well, looking at the definition of fascism: It's a far-right authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy...."

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fascism-term-hurled-donald-trump/story?id=115101505

"a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control of social and economicl ife, and extreme pride in country and race, with no expression of political disagreement allowed"

Cambridge dictionary

Do you disagree with the definition or it's application, and why?

[iris lilies]

Weird to call out the Europeans on their free speech issues, given the rather Orwellian turn the US is taking recently with language, literature, and art.

it could be happening all over in various ways. I watched footage of the Germans, sending their police to a citizen’s home who had posted a racist cartoon. Apparently in Germany, this is unlawful action. That’s what I’ve been seeing in the UK as well, police visiting the homes of people who have engaged in speech, they consider un civil.

Without knowing what examples you’re seeing here in the United States I could argue —perhaps—that it’s not quite that bad in the United States, but I don’t know what examples you’re looking at.

Let me just say very clearly: the creeping authoritarianism of regimes in western nations as expressed in tamping down free speech is a major concern to me.