A Palestinian State

[LDAHL]

Survival?
[/COLOR]
Hamas spokesmen have publicly admitted that the brutality against Israelis will never end until the state of Israel and all Jews have been removed from the face of the earth. I suspect that promotes a little freedom fighting on the Jewish side of the border as well.

Yes. When a group makes no secret of a policy of genocide, and has repeatedly demonstrated a willingness to use civilians as human shields, an accommodative response would not seem productive to me. I think referring to the people specifically targeting little children and old people as “freedom fighters” rings a bit hollow.

[bae]

I wonder what the end game for Israel would be.

Survival.

Whereas the end game for Hamas is the extermination of the Jewish people.

I can imagine after all the brutality is said and done, the young people in Gaza will want to grow up to be freedom fighters.

Freedom fighters? I'm not sure that phrase means what you think it means, in this context.

[iris lilies]

I wonder what the end game for Israel would be. I can imagine after all the brutality is said and done, the young people in Gaza will want to grow up to be freedom fighters.

They cannot eliminate Hamas,, they can only beat them into the ground and buy time, maybe a generation of time.

Man, Israeli intelligence really screwed up. Hamas was conducting military drills as they always do but Israel didn’t think much of it. They were overconfident with their wall, and theirvtechnical set ups to monitor Hamas.

I have to hand it to the nasty buggers, Hamas took everyone by surprise with the power and scope of their October 7 attack.

I think a few heads need to roll at the top of Israeli government when the smoke clears on this.

[Rogar]

Survival.

Whereas the end game for Hamas is the extermination of the Jewish people.



Freedom fighters? I'm not sure that phrase means what you think it means, in this context.

I'm getting ideas that Israel is looking at some scaled version of extermination in Gaza as well. They at least seem to be leading in the death count. I'm not defending anything, I just see a spiral of escalation with no end. Survival is an easy term for a more complicated end game. I suspect there are many hoping to survive in Gaza, too.

In my context for the discussion I would say that freedom fighters are a version of jihad extremists bent on the elimination of Israel as a Jewish nation. There are probably other meanings in other contexts.

[jp1]

I wonder what the end game for Israel would be.

Perpetual war?

[Alan]

Perpetual war?

I think that's what Hamas has in mind. According to Hamas Official Ghazi Hamad:

Israel is a country that has no place on our land. We must remove that country because it constitutes a security, military, and political catastrophe to the Arab and Islamic nation, and it it must be finished. We are not ashamed to say this, with full force. … [cut]
… We must teach Israel a lesson, and we will do this again and again. The Al-Aqsa Flood is just the first time, and there will be a second, a third, a fourth, because we have the determination, the resolve, and the capabilities to fight. Will we have to pay a price? Yes, and we are ready to pay it. We are called a nation of martyrs, and we are proud to sacrifice martyrs. …
HAMAD: The occupation must come to an end.
Q: Occupation where? In the Gaza Strip?
HAMAD: No, I am talking about all the Palestinian lands.
Q: Does that mean the annihilation of Israel?
HAMAD: Yes, of course.

[LDAHL]

In my context for the discussion I would say that freedom fighters are a version of jihad extremists bent on the elimination of Israel as a Jewish nation. There are probably other meanings in other contexts.

So in your context the SS could be called freedom fighters as well.

[Rogar]

So in your context the SS could be called freedom fighters as well.

No. I think they were called storm troopers. They are both just heroic names adopted by their followers. You could probably google Muslim freedom fighters for a more specific description than mine. Militant Hamas is a terrorist organization, plain and simple.

[LDAHL]

I think anyone who refers to either group as “freedom fighters” suffers from a certain lack of moral and linguistic clarity. Sort of like when the BBC can’t summon up the fortitude to refer to Hamas as “terrorists”.

[Rogar]

I think anyone who refers to either group as “freedom fighters” suffers from a certain lack of moral and linguistic clarity. Sort of like when the BBC can’t summon up the fortitude to refer to Hamas as “terrorists”.

Would you call he SS storm troopers or a terrorist organization.