A Palestinian State

[Tradd]

That's sad and reprehensible. I don't understand what's to gain by murdering civilians and taking hostages. I imagine there will be heavy price as pay back.

NYT said the Israeli defense minister said no fuel, food, water, or electricity will be allowed into Gaza.

[catherine]

My heart sinks for both the Israelis and the Palestinians with this news. This is the multi-generational response to oppression... the Holocaust and the murder of millions of Jews resulted in important concessions with the creation of the State of Israel, but that involved displacing the Palestinians and causing the slow simmer of anger and resentment on both sides.

I do love Chris Hedges--to me he has a lot of credibility and compassion via his many years as a foreign correspondent in many theaters of war. Here are his initial thoughts on this new war:

https://open.substack.com/pub/chrish...m_medium=email

Disclaimer: I am not "for" either side. I am "for" a real peaceful resolution based on equal distribution of self-determination for both sides and for compassion for all victims of oppression. I guess that's an appropriate sentiment for today: Indigenous People's Day.

I pray that this fight will be short and the leaders will lead wisely.

[LDAHL]

It’s difficult for me to see what Hamas is trying to accomplish here. They have no reasonable hope of taking and holding ground affecting world opinion in any kind of positive way. Are they serving their Iranian sponsors by trying to derail the Israeli- Saudi talks, or are the just straight-up nihilists?

[bae]

It’s difficult for me to see what Hamas is trying to accomplish here.

I think there was great danger that Israel and its neighbors were starting to act like grownups, and this is an attempt to throw a wrench into the works.

I might also wonder about any connections to the Russian/Iran axis, the war in Ukraine, and a few other odds-and-ends, like our House being in disarray.

I fear Gaza is about to be reduced to salted earth, with no stone left standing atop another. Sucks all around.

[Tradd]

I fear Gaza is about to be reduced to salted earth, with no stone left standing atop another. .

Good.

[Rogar]

I don't know that there is a right and wrong side of things, but just a matter of wrongness degree, if that's possible. Beyond politics, I suspect an element of religious extremism that has festered due to the bleak life in Gaza. Some of that blame falls on Israel. When it's the word of God vs, the word of Allah, who's to argue who is entitled to the land.

"Hamas Threatens to Kill Hostages". That could be a difficult issue without a good answer.

[ToomuchStuff]

Well, if you wanted to unite Hamas and all the Islamic faiths with the Jewish people, as well as a large portion of Christianity, just destroy the temple Mound.

[LDAHL]

I think there was great danger that Israel and its neighbors were starting to act like grownups, and this is an attempt to throw a wrench into the works.

I might also wonder about any connections to the Russian/Iran axis, the war in Ukraine, and a few other odds-and-ends, like our House being in disarray.

I fear Gaza is about to be reduced to salted earth, with no stone left standing atop another. Sucks all around.

It gets complicated, doesn’t it? What interest does Iran have in Russian imperial projects, other than a general hostility to the infidel West? Why support the massacre of infants in Israel other than to encourage Muslim unity in the dream of holy genocide? I think you are right that they are probably eager to prevent a practical ME peace; perhaps to keep the spirit of Jihad alive as a means to keep their own population in line.

[Yppej]

We did some pretty terrible things when we had taxation without representation, as is the case with the residents of Gaza and the West Bank. We tarred and feathered people. Masses of loyalists fled to Canada. We fought in ways considered uncivilized at the time - not in formations, but in guerrilla warfare we learned from Native Americans, who themselves violated norms of European warfare by taking civilian captives. And in response - King Phillip's War where we sold captives into slavery, massacres at Sand Creek, Wounded Knee, etc. Primarily civilians have died in our drone strikes. Thousands of people have died in the Ukraine conflict because we sabotaged peace efforts by Turkey, not to mention what we did in Vietnam because we didn't like the outcome of a democratic election there. We've got a lot of blood on our hands. A lot.

[LDAHL]

We did some pretty terrible things when we had taxation without representation, as is the case with the residents of Gaza and the West Bank. We tarred and feathered people. Masses of loyalists fled to Canada. We fought in ways considered uncivilized at the time - not in formations, but in guerrilla warfare we learned from Native Americans, who themselves violated norms of European warfare by taking civilian captives. And in response - King Phillip's War where we sold captives into slavery, massacres at Sand Creek, Wounded Knee, etc. Primarily civilians have died in our drone strikes. Thousands of people have died in the Ukraine conflict because we sabotaged peace efforts by Turkey, not to mention what we did in Vietnam because we didn't like the outcome of a democratic election there. We've got a lot of blood on our hands. A lot.

None of that detracts one iota from the current barbarity we are seeing right now.