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Thread: Permaculture at Home

  1. #11
    Senior Member awakenedsoul's Avatar
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    Gregg,
    I forgot to respond your question about pests. I haven't had problems with insects. (I think the birds take care of those.) The chickens help, too. I have had critters at night come and chomp on my pomegranates and persimmons. Last year something ate all the pomegranates. I think there were over a hundred on that one bush. This was the first year I'd ever had a problem. If it happens this year, I'll pick the fruit early, and try to ripen it inside. Maybe in a brown bag or on the counter. Once the persimmons were getting eaten, I picked them early and ripened them inside and in the freezer. I have lost some trees, ( I think to fireblight.) I just plan to have challenges, but each year is better. I plant extra vegetables, and try to work around the problem, if possible. A gopher ate all 35 of my onions, but at least that kept him busy, and I got everything else. Netting can help, too.
    Last edited by awakenedsoul; 8-31-12 at 2:07pm. Reason: typo

  2. #12
    Helper Gregg's Avatar
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    I'm with peggy about not having anything that needs to be babied. Part of the alure to this arrangement, for me anyway, is that everything in it takes care of everything else so they don't really need me to do much! I also agree with planting about twice what you need so the critters can have a share, too. Worst case there is that they don't eat their share and you have to give some to the neighbors!

    The Sahara Forest Project (big scale) and the Sea Water Greenhouses (any scale) are super cool. I had the good fortune to volunteer at the Rocky Mountain Institute for several years and this type of project was getting a lot of attention from the staff. It's the kind of project that answers several different questions at once, which IMO is exactly the kind of solutions the world needs right now. Kind of like permaculture, huh?

  3. #13
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    Love permaculture techniques. It’s amazing to me how productive the system is.

    At the moment I can only respond to a few of the ideas in this thread at a time, so I will edit this post periodically as I get a chance to add additional info.

    Books and Magazines on Permaculture:
    See if you can get books by Mollison or Holmgren on interlibrary loan for more completeness. If Holmgren does another speaking tour near you, see if you can attend. It’s worth it to read all the books here
    http://www.permacultureactivist.net/.../BooksnVid.htm
    as well as to read as many issues of the US and UK permaculture magazines as you can find.

    Fruit trees:
    I’d also vote to get a standard one and keep it pruned lower for picking as well. The productivity is much greater. Also, you can grow multiple varieties of fruit on one tree. For example I have had apple trees with 5 varieties on them. The most I have heard of is 40 varieties on one tree. The great thing is the limbs will bloom and produce at different times, extending your harvest and reducing frost risks. You can also graft multiple stone fruits onto one tree (cherries, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, etc) or citrus onto one tree (oranges, grapefruits, tangerines, lemons, limes, etc.). The multi-grafted trees look amazing—like a giant living bouquet when in bloom due to the variety of flowers, and then sort of like a christmas tree in fruit with all of the different colors of fruit. Consider adding varieties with a mix of winter chill requirements so you can cover more climate variation possibilities.

    If you can get multiple families in your neighborhood interested in permaculturing the neighborhood together, you can increase the fruit diversity and trade fruit, as well as improve pollination for each other by how you site your trees.

    Where insects are a problem for apples, one very successful solution is kaolin.

    If you would like a variety that is currently not possible or is iffy in your area, leave space in your plan. Once a permaculture garden is underway, it often alters the microclimate enough that items from warmer areas will survive. See
    Sepp Holzer's Permaculture for an excellent example.
    http://www.permacultureactivist.net/...vid-dvd-cd.htm

    Nut trees:
    On smaller properties such as described in this thread, I’d avoid walnut. Walnut has a natural herbicide that will prevent most other food plants from growing in the area. If you can grow pinenut trees, put them on the north side of the house to deflect winter storms. Avoid nonfoodnut pines.

    Trees in general:
    Try to pick trees that will benefit you in at least three ways. For example an apple provides:
    Shade in summer
    Allows sunlight to the house in winter
    Provides fruit
    Can be grafted to provide 5-40 varieties as it grows
    Good climbing tree for children
    Fruitwood good for grilling or smoking
    Some furniture wood or kitchenware uses

    On the smaller lots, I’d avoid oak or maple since although they are beautiful and provide great shade, they don’t provide direct human food. If for some reason your HOA requires a nonhuman food tree, you could go with an oak if you are contributing to the feeding of a pig for meat or maple if you would like to use a limb here and there for small wooden bowls, wooden stirring spoons or other similar kitchen ware.

    Drought gardening:
    For an example of how a piece of desert can be turned into a productive food forest see the article here:
    http://ag.arizona.edu/oals/ALN/aln46/lancaster.html
    On the left hand side further down the page is a thumbnail that expands to a map which shows the incredible diversity created.

    More info as time permits.

  4. #14
    Senior Member peggy's Avatar
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    This is interesting. Full sized fruit trees trimmed to smaller. Are you sure you aren't talking about semi-dwarf? Cause a full sized tree can be quite a tall tree. I'll have to investigate this further. I have the room for full sized trees but the logistics of harvest and maintenance are what keeps me back.

  5. #15
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    I'm enjoying all the tips here! We established an 8-bed (4'x8') veg garden about 6 years ago and planted various fruit trees and bushes then. This year I'm working on expanding the edibles by moving the deer-resistant ones out of the fenced area to make more space, and planning the addition of more deer-resistant varieties throughout the landscape. No chickens yet but we're contemplating them...

    I'm interested in the full-sized fruit trees kept pruned. We have a semi-dwarf apple and it is a really nice size for our yard; our sour cherry is naturally a fairly compact tree. I was planning to plant 2 more fruit trees next spring. How do the full-sized, pruned trees look - are there any online references you can recommend?

  6. #16
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    Here is a link about Fruit bushes, which is pruning a full sized fruit trees to a manageable height. Most of the fruit trees in this orchard came from Dave Wilson nursery, which was mentioned in the first post.

    http://ucanr.org/sites/sacmg/Fruit_a...t_Bush_System/

  7. #17
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    This thread is really inspiring me! I will have to check out that Gaia book. I've always loved the idea of a veggie/herb garden but don't know the first thing about it. I will be getting a few hens within the month. I am working on finishing the coop and I hope I can keep the bears away from them. I have a plan to put the hens in a more secure area at night but those bears are pretty strong and determined...fingers crossed.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Gardenarian's Avatar
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    I agree with planting standard fruit trees rather than dwarf, primarily because the standards live a whole lot longer. The lifespan of a dwarf apple tree is around 15 years; lifespan of a standard is 75 years, maybe 100s of years. I like to feel like I'm planting for the future.

    Of course dwarf citrus are wonderful in containers - big producers.

    I got my PDC last year and have been experimenting and observing this year. With so much information available I used to feel that I could just garden by the book, but really, it is amazing to see what actually succeeds and fails. Nothing like first-hand experience!

  9. #19
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardenarian View Post

    I got my PDC last year and have been experimenting and observing this year. With so much information available I used to feel that I could just garden by the book, but really, it is amazing to see what actually succeeds and fails. Nothing like first-hand experience!
    Yes, I'm getting my PDC in September, but I told my kids, that and $5 will get me a cup of coffee at Starbucks! I am SO enthused about my permaculture course, but I am really starting out as a baby--not like many of the folk here who have years of experience out in the garden. So, the next stage in my training has to be all hands-on. I'm going to try a winter crop for the first time this year--in fact, I've just been carousing the internet looking for good ideas--I'm thinking of cabbage, beets, squash, bok choy. I'm just interested in experimenting. DH has put me down for planting peppers this past summer, because the yield is so small, but I tell him that I"m only in it for the experience at this point. I don't care if I get ONE small batch of guacamole out from my jalapeño yield!

    I'm also close to Rutgers, so I'm thinking of volunteering at their gardens. DH is worried that he's going to find me sheet mulching the entire yard... well, I may try at least a corner of it!
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
    www.silententry.wordpress.com

  10. #20
    Senior Member awakenedsoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peggy View Post
    This is interesting. Full sized fruit trees trimmed to smaller. Are you sure you aren't talking about semi-dwarf? Cause a full sized tree can be quite a tall tree. I'll have to investigate this further. I have the room for full sized trees but the logistics of harvest and maintenance are what keeps me back.
    The link that Birdie posted is where I got the idea. I've had amazing yields this way. I also want trees that won't have to be replaced. I just harvested 2 full crates and a large overflowing fruit bowl full of pomegranates off of one tree! I'm experimenting with ripening them inside, and it's working. Last year a critter ate the entire crop. I have a few semi dwarf trees, but I will stick with standards from now on. They are so vigorous, and they just fruit like mad! I trim them once a year, and that does the trick. His ideas on summer pruning for more fruit are interesting, too.

    I just fed my melon bed. I've got some yellow and red heirloom watermelon coming. I thought I wasn't going to get any fruit, but I was wrong! I've got to start my winter vegetables soon. Happy gardening!

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