Is she the boss of me? Should I stop laughing?

[iris lilies]

It is true am still laughing hours later in a WTF way.

DH and I had such a weird encounter this morning that I have been mulling over its OMGness. I need a reality check.

dH and I and two of our friends have been battling with the head of our community garden over various issues. We are dealing with founder's syndrome here since she has been Large and In Charge for 18 years.

So this morning we all had a confrontation, standing out the community garden. As we discussed our issues, She told my friend to stop screeching, she told Dh to stop waving his hands around, and she asked me to remove my own hands from my own hips. With me she said "please" and might have used that word with others. She said that she found these actions intimidating or aggressive, can't remember which word she used.

The timeline is that I kinda of overheard her requests about screeching and hand waving, but when it came to me where she asked me to put down hands from my hips, I was blindsided. I immediately felt like I was 14 years old and standing in front of my mother. And I think that's her tactic for intimidation. What do you thinK?

[Tradd]

I think she's full of it. You had your hands on your hips and your DH apparently talks with his hands. Big deal. She calls that aggressive? It's so absurd it's funny.

[iris lilies]

I will also add that the person I'm speaking about is a professional psychological counselor. While the actions she requires In her own office are one thing, she requiring those same tactics out here in normal human land seems daft to me. And frankly seems manipulative.

but of course I do not trust her, so that plays into this.

[iris lilies]

I think she's full of it. You had your hands on your hips and your DH apparently talks with his hands. Big deal. She calls that aggressive? It's so absurd it's funny.

Thank you for supporting me here. Not everyone has to.:)

DH kept referring to our encounter this morning as Bizzaro World even though it really did not match the Seinfield definition.

[Tradd]

Thank you for supporting me here. Not everyone has to.:)

DH kept referring to our encounter this morning as Bizzaro World even though it really did not match the Seinfield definition.

You're welcome. I would have called her on the carpet. She obviously has no clue what aggressive behavior really looks like. She didn't happen to mention "micro-aggression," did she? ;-)

She's a counselor, too? Well, I've always heard crazy people themselves work in mental health.

[catherine]

I was just listening to someone on a podcast, and he talked about "confident" body language, and any posture that enlarges your presence physically gives off the impression that you are a confident person--and he specifically mentioned hands on the hips. Maybe your large, confident posture intimidated her and she misread it as aggression.

It was definitely a weird set of demands on her part.

[kib]

Lordy, maybe you and Tradd both need to read The Sociopath Next Door! What a pair of crazies you've had to deal with.

[Tradd]

Lordy, maybe you and Tradd both need to read The Sociopath Next Door! What a pair of crazies you've had to deal with.

Oh, you have no clue what's been going on with the chick who lives above me. That one takes the cake. Will post it.

[Zoe Girl]

what happened to her 'I statements'? maybe saying she feels threatened when you disagree and stand would help, but I think she actually needs to do that herself.

yeah, my former inlays are counselors. Lots of great counselors but the bad ones are kinda epic

[iris lilies]

what happened to her 'I statements'? maybe saying she feels threatened when you disagree and stand would help, but I think she actually needs to do that herself.

yeah, my former inlays are counselors. Lots of great counselors but the bad ones are kinda epic

You know, I can't say for sure how she expressed her request to stop screeching and hand waiving. Yep, DH talks with his hands.

But this is a direct quote to me "please take your hands off your hips."

So are you saying that in the rules of combat generally accepted in negotiation among humans, she should have said "I feel threatened by you standing with you hands on your hips?"

edited to add: I checked with
dH and he said that she DID express with him an I Feel statement such as " I feel threatened by your hands moving..." So it was only with me that she dropped Correct Speak.

[rodeosweetheart]

While she certainly sounds out of line, at least she is talking to you and not shut down completely.

Do you think it would help if you all met at a neutral place, like a Starbucks, and sat down around coffee and tried to deescalate the tension?

[JaneV2.0]

Geez, she sure threatens easily. I think you should step up your game, with DH gesticulating like a Mediterranean fish monger and you balling up your fists and leaning in. Could you stage a coup? Maybe it's time for her to retire...

[Dhiana]

Well, she gotcha.

While you were attempting to make your point, she distracted you with her comments, and put you on the defensive.
She probably knows you're right, Keep her on point next time!!

And just for fun you should be gesturing passionately and he should have his hands on his hips :)

[Float On]

I've always heard crazy people themselves work in mental health.

I only ended up with a minor in psych because my major demanded all but one class credit to reach minor status. Sure came in handy in all my jobs dealing with people. During college we always said "all the psych majors are here trying to figure themselves out".

iris...upon hearing her say these things you all should of really shown your "aggressive behaviors" by moving in on her personal space (close enough your breath could move her hair, almost toe to toe and leaning in) with constant and direct eye contact. That would of really put her over the edge.

I can see a cartoon strip out of this situation for sure. Which is probably not a bad idea,"The community garden...". You probably have plenty of characters, character traits, and situations to make it have a good run.

[kib]

I know someone who does that - the easiest shift in power in negotiation is toward what *I* am doing wrong, and if it's not something to do with the disagreement, it will be something else - a tone of voice, my "attitude", the fact that my jaw is twitching, a curse word. The fact that this woman is a counselor does skew it a bit, I think she's defending her sense of vulnerability in what she perceives to be an adult manner, but the truth remains, you stopped talking iris.

[iris lilies]

These are all very useful comments, especially the cartoon strip which is INSPIRATIONAL. We (my tribe) laugh A LOT. I am constantly reminded of the irony in all of this.

At the moment, I think of us as two tribe of monkeys. My tribe values facts and hands-on work and knowledge of horticulture. My tribe bonds through laughing at jokes that I will confess are sometimes smart ass, insider ones. Outsiders can come in through sharing a bit of hands on work and/or horticultural tips.

Her tribe has slightly different values and behaviors in my view (of course, this is only my view!) Frankly, I sometimes view them as lobotomy victims, although smart ones. She flits around directing the lobotomy victims to do bits of work here and there. The lobotomy victims love having her tell them what to do.

If were talking to her today I'd say "Sorry that my tribe is so ignorant of feel-speak negotiations. We don't place high value on that form of communication. I suppose we could learn. What a mensch you are to simultaneously educate us ignorant monkeys while carrying out negotiations of conflict. You are truly a caring and obviously superior monkey!"

See, I can't even refrain from smart-assness when speaking to her hypothetically. There is no hope for me.

So give a little background, my tribe (without me) and she have already been through mediation once, mediation run by the President and ex-President of our neighborhood organization. Since she is a committee head of our organization, she reports to them. It is an excellent thing that our community garden is now a committee of our neighborhood organization. Prior to that, she was out there in no mans land running her own show.

The reason why she hasn't shut down is because she wants something from us. We aren't giving it.

[Float On]

These are all very useful comments, especially the cartoon strip which is INSPIRATIONAL. We (my tribe) laugh A LOT. I am constantly reminded of the irony in all of this.



I keep thinking about this. How different flowers mean different things and depending on the jest of the punch line the characters are in that kind of flower garden for the day.

[Zoe Girl]

IL I wanted to be clear, I don't think you should feel obligated to remove your hands from your hips. The counselor thing is still supposed to be within reason. Hands on hips is not a generally aggressive move.

My in-laws once used the 'counselor excuse' to sit me down and ask me basically what was wrong with my kids. That is pretty much a direct quote. Expressing anger was important so I was subjected to more than one rage. It was a long time ago but I was reminded of some of their things.

I like the tribe idea, I am in a women's group around meditation, facilitation and peer leadership. The way we relate and speak is not always the way that everyone else does. I do not go into a work meeting and ask people to drop into their bodies and give an I statement of needs!

[iris lilies]

Geez, she sure threatens easily. I think you should step up your game, with DH gesticulating like a Mediterranean fish monger and you balling up your fists and leaning in. Could you stage a coup? Maybe it's time for her to retire...

Well yes, she has announced her retirement. Problem is, the date is unclear and she adds conditions to it. In effect, she has not stepped down although if you ask her she'll say "I have resigned."

Our neighborhood President will be meeting with her this week to design an exit strategy. That exit plan may or may not please my tribe, but whatever. Clearly, if she was going to resign we would just wait until that event took place. The coup may or may not take place, hard to know.

[rodeosweetheart]

Well yes, she has announced her retirement. Problem is, the date is unclear and she adds conditions to it. In effect, she has not stepped down although if you ask her she'll say "I have resigned."

Our neighborhood President will be meeting with her this week to design an exit strategy. That exit plan may or may not please my tribe, but whatever. Clearly, if she was going to resign we would just wait until that event took place. The coup may or may not take place, hard to know.

What is it that you think she wants from you?

Is there a possibility that she feels threatened or ganged up on in some way?

Is she losing something valuable to her in resigning?

You guys sound very polarized, just trying to figure out the dynamic.

[iris lilies]

What is it that you think she wants from you?

Is there a possibility that she feels threatened or ganged up on in some way?

Is she losing something valuable to her in resigning?

You guys sound very polarized, just trying to figure out the dynamic.

Of COURSE she feels ganged up on and threatened.

She is losing her vision of what the community garden "should" be. It will not be exactly as she wants it. It WILL remain a community garden, however. We aren't changing it to a water park, for instance. Or to a dog park. But sure, details will change.

What she wants from us in the immediate is to put forth our names as garden leaders to be voted on in a vote document written and distributed by her. I do not agree to participate in her process.

When she steps down, all garden members may put forth their names as possible leaders. I really don't want to be the official committee man, but those in my tribe DO. I will do many tasks and have outlined those in writing.

[rodeosweetheart]

Of COURSE she feels ganged up on and threatened.

She is losing her vision of what the community garden "should" be. It will not be exactly as she wants it. It WILL remain a community garden, however. We aren't changing it to a water park, for instance. Or to a dog park. But sure, details will change.

What she wants from us in the immediate is to put forth our names as garden leaders to be voted on in a vote document written and distributed by her. I do not agree to participate in her process.

When she steps down, all garden members may put forth their names as possible leaders. I really don't want to be the official committee man, but those in my tribe DO. I will do many tasks and have outlined those in writing.

I guess if I really thought she felt threatened, was facing certain losses, and that her behavior was not just manipulative, then I might try to de-escalate the tension. It sounds like the thing she started has grown beyond her, and it is hard for her to let go.

[iris lilies]

I guess if I really thought she felt threatened, was facing certain losses, and that her behavior was not just manipulative, then I might try to de-escalate the tension. It sounds like the thing she started has grown beyond her, and it is hard for her to let go.

It's Founder's Syndrome with all of the typical accompanying behavior. Only DH was also a "founder" he was just never The Leader, and that's ok because he didn't want to be. Until now.

[rodeosweetheart]

Does she have a tribe, too? How discouraging that you already did mediation. Why do you think that did not work better?

Do you have a clear idea of what you want to happen? It sure sounds like face to face conversation is making things worse!

[Teacher Terry]

It sounds like she needs to go. What you guys did is not threatening. I spent years working in human services & she should know what it feels like if someone is really threatening her. That is one of the problems I have found with volunteer work is someone begins to feel like they can boss you around. I read that is one of the reasons many people don't stick with volunteer work.

[iris lilies]

Does she have a tribe, too? How discouraging that you already did mediation. Why do you think that did not work better?

Do you have a clear idea of what you want to happen? It sure sounds like face to face conversation is making things worse!

Yes. My clear idea is that she is no longer the Community Garden leader.

She may continue to have a garden bed and be one of the 40 people who have beds.