View Full Version : Trumps: White Angry Middleclass
Ignoring the very real suffering out there would be cruel.
Promising to fix it with the economic equivalent of magic beans is crueler still. There simply aren't enough billionaires out there to dispossess.
LDAHL, you're much too smart to draw these dramatic oversimplifications of the possibilities of needed change. No one is looking to overtake the bourgeoisie. Just looking to see how the tax code may be improved, Wall Street can be reined in, and money can be kept from their off-shore tax havens without upsetting the lifestyles of the rich and famous. I don't think it's magic--if so we need to consult with the wizards of those countries who have already conjured it up.
LDAHL, you're much too smart to draw these dramatic oversimplifications of the possibilities of needed change. No one is looking to overtake the bourgeoisie. Just looking to see how the tax code may be improved, Wall Street can be reined in, and money can be kept from their off-shore tax havens without upsetting the lifestyles of the rich and famous. I don't think it's magic--if so we need to consult with the wizards of those countries who have already conjured it up.
One of the few public services Clinton has performed during the campaign has been to point out how unrealistic Sanders' proposed policies are.
I don't think there's any magic to how the faltering welfare states of Europe work their magic. High taxes on individuals, lower taxes on corporations, weak military establishments and high unemployment. I agree with you that's more sophisticated than "soak the rich".
One of the few public services Clinton has performed during the campaign has been to point out how unrealistic Sanders' proposed policies are.
I don't think there's any magic to how the faltering welfare states of Europe work their magic. High taxes on individuals, lower taxes on corporations, weak military establishments and high unemployment. I agree with you that's more sophisticated than "soak the rich".
Where there's a will there's a way. Is our response to be "let them eat cake?"
Where there's a will there's a way. Is our response to be "let them eat cake?"
No. But neither does promising a free lunch.
Ultralight
5-13-16, 3:40pm
I think part of the issue is that we as a culture need to realize we don't need such big lunches or any cake for dessert.
Williamsmith
5-14-16, 8:31am
Since we can't agree on whether the rich are rich enough, the poor are poor enough and middleclass screwed enough.....how bout we just start from scratch. And within a week, the rich will be rich again in the same proportions, the poor will be poor again in the same proportions and the middleclass screwed.
The carbeurator needs adjustment, this engine is running too rich.
Since we can't agree on whether the rich are rich enough, the poor are poor enough and middleclass screwed enough.....how bout we just start from scratch. And within a week, the rich will be rich again in the same proportions, the poor will be poor again in the same proportions and the middleclass screwed.
The carbeurator needs adjustment, this engine is running too rich.
That's the problem. Too many people think the solution is adjusting the carburetor when the world has moved on to fuel injectors.
Best description for Trump, courtesy of Thom Hartmann: "the Duck Dynasty version of Ronald Reagan."
catherine
5-14-16, 12:41pm
That's the problem. Too many people think the solution is adjusting the carburetor when the world has moved on to fuel injectors.
Funny thing for a conservative to say. What are the fuel injectors? Rampant capitalism run amok? Or can the fuel injectors be the modulators that ensure capitalism serves its purpose? TIME Magazine's cover story is one about how the markets are choking the economy. The author says that the rules of the free-market system have been warped through an increase in "financialization" and the stifling of business and innovation.
"Academic research shows that only a fraction of all the money washing around the financial markets these days actually makes it to Main Street businesses."
So I don't care if you're a dyed-in-the-wool free market capitalist or a Democratic socialist, you have to acknowledge that this is a marker of ill financial health. I'm not concerned about the tanned billionaires or the size of their yachts or any other part of their fiscal anatomies, but I am concerned about the stopped up plumbing of our economy.
Gardenarian
5-14-16, 2:44pm
I think part of the issue is that we as a culture need to realize we don't need such big lunches or any cake for dessert.
+1
... TIME Magazine's cover story is one about how the markets are choking the economy. The author says that the rules of the free-market system have been warped through an increase in "financialization" and the stifling of business and innovation.
"Academic research shows that only a fraction of all the money washing around the financial markets these days actually makes it to Main Street businesses."
So I don't care if you're a dyed-in-the-wool free market capitalist or a Democratic socialist, you have to acknowledge that this is a marker of ill financial health. I'm not concerned about the tanned billionaires or the size of their yachts or any other part of their fiscal anatomies, but I am concerned about the stopped up plumbing of our economy.
+1 I've seen this in the MegaCorp. I work for, and it's amazing to watch the CEO be so terrified of what "the markets" are going to say about our quarterly numbers. The U.S. is a corpocracy and there are several thousand people on Wall Street who are managing the show - the rest of us only get to watch and wonder how to protect ourselves from the fallout.
Funny thing for a conservative to say. What are the fuel injectors? Rampant capitalism run amok? Or can the fuel injectors be the modulators that ensure capitalism serves its purpose? TIME Magazine's cover story is one about how the markets are choking the economy. The author says that the rules of the free-market system have been warped through an increase in "financialization" and the stifling of business and innovation.
"Academic research shows that only a fraction of all the money washing around the financial markets these days actually makes it to Main Street businesses."
So I don't care if you're a dyed-in-the-wool free market capitalist or a Democratic socialist, you have to acknowledge that this is a marker of ill financial health. I'm not concerned about the tanned billionaires or the size of their yachts or any other part of their fiscal anatomies, but I am concerned about the stopped up plumbing of our economy.
All the liquidity sloshing around the markets is an artifact of governments struggling to keep interest rates low and currencies cheap.
If anything is clogging the pipes of enterprise, it is absurd tax and regulatory regimes.
Both the Trump and Sanders campaigns are stumping for the neomerchantilist solutions of the past. They only differ in their choice of scapegoats.
Williamsmith
5-15-16, 11:12am
All the liquidity sloshing around the markets is an artifact of governments struggling to keep interest rates low and currencies cheap.
If anything is clogging the pipes of enterprise, it is absurd tax and regulatory regimes.
Both the Trump and Sanders campaigns are stumping for the neomerchantilist solutions of the past. They only differ in their choice of scapegoats.
So free market Laissez-faire capitalism which is in many ways the opposite of merchantilism is the preferred method but one of the original tenants of Adam Smith and company is that citizens must keep reign on corporations because they naturally tend towards monopolizing markets. And that has been forgotten or conveniently discarded. As you say....regulatory regimes. Thus Trump.
So free market Laissez-faire capitalism which is in many ways the opposite of merchantilism is the preferred method but one of the original tenants of Adam Smith and company is that citizens must keep reign on corporations because they naturally tend towards monopolizing markets. And that has been forgotten or conveniently discarded. As you say....regulatory regimes. Thus Trump.
I don't think criticizing over-regulation is the same thing as arguing for no regulation at all.
What Trump (and Sanders) seem to be arguing for is an opting out of competing in international markets for labor, capital, goods and services in favor of a sort of inward-looking economic nationalism.
Williamsmith
5-15-16, 2:25pm
I don't think criticizing over-regulation is the same thing as arguing for no regulation at all.
What Trump (and Sanders) seem to be arguing for is an opting out of competing in international markets for labor, capital, goods and services in favor of a sort of inward-looking economic nationalism.
I may be wrong, but what I am hearing is we are foolishly enabling the global international markets to have unfair advantages; that these agreements have allowed our labor force to be undermined by cheap outsourced in some instances slave/child labor, currency manipulation and poor quality goods forced down our throats. I don't hear....opt out. I hear, quit being stupid and demand fair trade practices. 94 million unemployed people is either a potential workforce or a potential revolution. Take your pick.
Williamsmith
5-16-16, 7:44am
About 24 years ago, this......
http://youtu.be/Rkgx1C_S6ls
Today he may qualify as a gull dang genius.
Ultralight
5-16-16, 7:50am
About 24 years ago, this......
http://youtu.be/Rkgx1C_S6ls
Today he may qualify as a gull dang genius.
I often think about how Perot was kinda spot on about a few things.
Williamsmith
5-21-16, 11:10pm
Would a Donald Trump/ Rand Paul ticket change anybody's mind? Maybe Ron Paul?
iris lilies
5-21-16, 11:49pm
Would a Donald Trump/ Rand Paul ticket change anybody's mind? Maybe Ron Paul?
Whoah. My first thought is "keep Rand away from the cesspool" but on secnd thought, maybe.Its a gamble. I,dnthnk Trump, if elected, will serve even 4 years.
Whoah. My first thought is "keep Rand away from the cesspool" but on secnd thought, maybe.Its a gamble. I,dnthnk Trump, if elected, will serve even 4 years.
I've thought that myself - one of the perks as President is enduring an entire term of criticism and abuse no matter what you do. And that's not a role Trump seems to tolerate very well.
frugal-one
5-22-16, 1:21pm
Saw today on the news that Sanders said if he can't win he wants his supporters to back Trump. WTH!!! He is not a democratic socialist... just a socialist. He should not have been allowed to run as a democrat IMO.
Saw today on the news that Sanders said if he can't win he wants his supporters to back Trump. WTH!!! He is not a democratic socialist... just a socialist. He should not have been allowed to run as a democrat IMO.
What channel was that? I can't find anything in my usual news sources. It doesn't sound like something Bernie would suggest. Maybe Trump's campaign PR flak put that out; I wouldn't put it past Trump.
Williamsmith
5-22-16, 2:14pm
Saw today on the news that Sanders said if he can't win he wants his supporters to back Trump. WTH!!! He is not a democratic socialist... just a socialist. He should not have been allowed to run as a democrat IMO.
It makes all the sense in the world to me. Both Sanders and Trump are carrying anti establishment supporters. One group is responding to socialist utopia and the other has a leaning towards nationalism, but both want to rid themselves of the influence of monied interests. True they approach it in vastly different terms but they are both seekin the same result. Winner take all. Clinton represents what got us in this mess in the first place. She is a step backwards. At least Trump is still evolving his politics.
It doesn't make much sense to me. Better Jill Stein or another anti-establishment candidate than the odious Trump.
Saw today on the news that Sanders said if he can't win he wants his supporters to back Trump. WTH!!! He is not a democratic socialist... just a socialist. He should not have been allowed to run as a democrat IMO.
I watched his interview with George Stephanopolous this morning and he didn't say anything of the sort, nor did George ask, which he undoubtedly would have if George had heard it elsewhere, so this sounds like a truth-free soundbite put out by a righwting hack or Debbie Wasserman Shultz.
Saw today on the news that Sanders said if he can't win he wants his supporters to back Trump. WTH!!! He is not a democratic socialist... just a socialist. He should not have been allowed to run as a democrat IMO.
I have a hard time believing this one. And I haven't found anything. Source?
Williamsmith
5-23-16, 8:32am
I give credit to Sanders for identifying the problem and calling out Wall Street and Congress but He proposes the wrong solution. The transfer of wealth through force has been going on ever since the federal reserve and Congress joined forces to inflate the supply of money, devalue it and by this means tax people without representation. If Bernie wanted to eliminate the federal reserve and get back to free market principles , aid be all for him but he believes the democratization of the federal reserve would be an improvement. Nothing the federal government has done in a big way has led to an improvement. Education? Welfare? Military? It's all a disaster and Bernie would have more of it.
I give credit to Sanders for identifying the problem and calling out Wall Street and Congress but He proposes the wrong solution. The transfer of wealth through force has been going on ever since the federal reserve and Congress joined forces to inflate the supply of money, devalue it and by this means tax people without representation. If Bernie wanted to eliminate the federal reserve and get back to free market principles , aid be all for him but he believes the democratization of the federal reserve would be an improvement. Nothing the federal government has done in a big way has led to an improvement. Education? Welfare? Military? It's all a disaster and Bernie would have more of it.
Social Security. Medicare. The interstate highway system.
frugal-one
5-23-16, 11:16am
Saw today on the news that Sanders said if he can't win he wants his supporters to back Trump. WTH!!! He is not a democratic socialist... just a socialist. He should not have been allowed to run as a democrat IMO.
I was wrong! Saw the clip again.... was talking about DNC. Sorry... caught it wrong.
I give credit to Sanders for identifying the problem and calling out Wall Street and Congress but He proposes the wrong solution. The transfer of wealth through force has been going on ever since the federal reserve and Congress joined forces to inflate the supply of money, devalue it and by this means tax people without representation. If Bernie wanted to eliminate the federal reserve and get back to free market principles , aid be all for him but he believes the democratization of the federal reserve would be an improvement. Nothing the federal government has done in a big way has led to an improvement. Education? Welfare? Military? It's all a disaster and Bernie would have more of it.
Social Security. Medicare. The interstate highway system.
Thinking about this some more I think the problem isn't that the government isn't capable of doing big things. It's that the big businesspeople have figured out how to make big bucks off the government through the use of lobbyists and such. Today if we tried to provide retirement income for seniors the life insurance industry would probably be pushing for a "privatized" system where everyone got a government provided life insurance policy. Medicare would have become vouchers to buy private health insurance. And the interstate highway system would've been private toll roads.
Social Security. Medicare. The interstate highway system.
Center for Disease Control. Federal park service. Federal Aviation Administration. National Science Institute. National Weather Service. NASA. U.S. Patent office.
Williamsmith
5-24-16, 7:56am
AMTRAK, U S Postal Service, Securities and Echange Commission, FDIC, Environmental Protection Agency, Corporation for Public Broadcasting, Federal Communications Commission. Transportation Safety Administration (Otherwise known as Bureau of Long Lines, Smoke and Mirrors.) Your turn.
I was wrong! Saw the clip again.... was talking about DNC. Sorry... caught it wrong.
Whew, I thought I had heard more negative towards Trump from him but he seems to be more ignoring Trump and focusing on Clinton
Are we defining "socialism" here as any government activity? The "If you drive on roads, you're a socialist" argument gets made a lot, to the point of achieving cliche status. Or the popular "If you complain about government overreach while collecting Social Security, you're a hypocrite". The implication is that even the slightest brush with government invalidates any argument against government intervention. Personally, I think that's a rather silly reduction ad absurdum argument only suitable for use against Randian anarcho-capitalist strawmen.
You'd be just as foolish arguing that having $5 in your pocket that you can spend freely marks you as a laissez faire capitalist with no right to criticize Goldman Sachs.
There is a spectrum of the level of government intervention you can consider tolerable. Wanting potholes filled is not the same thing as wishing you lived in Caracas. Putting a few bucks in a Roth doesn't make you a robber baron.
Ultralight
5-24-16, 8:45am
Are we defining "socialism" here as any government activity? The "If you drive on roads, you're a socialist" argument gets made a lot, to the point of achieving cliche status. Or the popular "If you complain about government overreach while collecting Social Security, you're a hypocrite". The implication is that even the slightest brush with government invalidates any argument against government intervention. Personally, I think that's a rather silly reduction ad absurdum argument only suitable for use against Randian anarcho-capitalist strawmen.
You'd be just as foolish arguing that having $5 in your pocket that you can spend freely marks you as a laissez faire capitalist with no right to criticize Goldman Sachs.
There is a spectrum of the level of government intervention you can consider tolerable. Wanting potholes filled is not the same thing as wishing you lived in Caracas. Putting a few bucks in a Roth doesn't make you a robber baron.
If you drive on roads then you are socialist about roads!
Williamsmith
5-24-16, 8:46am
Clinton wants to pretend Bernie is history. Trouble is every time she looks in the rear view mirror, there he is. So now that she can't get rid of him, she is going to be satisfied appearing as though she is the presumptive nominee and decline a debate with Bernie before the California Primary. This will give her time to shake hands with Californians and move on to the job at hand.....a Democratic convention that highlights just how dirty Clinton politics really are.
Do you think Bernie could make 21 million in speeches after the election campaign?
Ultralight
5-24-16, 8:48am
Clinton wants to pretend Bernie is history. Trouble is every time she looks in the rear view mirror, there he is. So now that she can't get rid of him, she is going to be satisfied appearing as though she is the presumptive nominee and decline a debate with Bernie before the California Primary. This will give her time to shake hands with Californians and move on to the job at hand.....a Democratic convention that highlights just how dirty Clinton politics really are.
Do you think Bernie could make 21 million in speeches after the election campaign?
She ain't getting my vote.
Are we defining "socialism" here as any government activity? The "If you drive on roads, you're a socialist" argument gets made a lot, to the point of achieving cliche status. Or the popular "If you complain about government overreach while collecting Social Security, you're a hypocrite". The implication is that even the slightest brush with government invalidates any argument against government intervention. Personally, I think that's a rather silly reduction ad absurdum argument only suitable for use against Randian anarcho-capitalist strawmen.
You'd be just as foolish arguing that having $5 in your pocket that you can spend freely marks you as a laissez faire capitalist with no right to criticize Goldman Sachs.
There is a spectrum of the level of government intervention you can consider tolerable. Wanting potholes filled is not the same thing as wishing you lived in Caracas. Putting a few bucks in a Roth doesn't make you a robber baron.
I get that you are for the least government intervention as possible and let business do what they will. Just curious, what type of regulation do you support when it comes to business? Any at all??
Let's talk about a more complex issue: let's take one of our favorite topics: healthcare. TIME Magazine had an article that I was interested in reading because it's about my livelihood: marketing drugs. I hate to bite the hand that feeds me, but the article talked about the price gouging of pharmaceuticals. The main problem is that, according to one of the experts quoted:
...the rules of supply and demand do not apply. 'People say, Let pharmaceutical manufacturers charge whatever the market will bear'... but it doesn't work that way.. It's a flawed market.
There are a lot of reasons for that which I won't go into but how can you justify pharmaceutical companies getting away with increasing the prices of their medications by double digits EVERY YEAR? Just because they can? It's a horrendous abuse of the system. I know that they need to conduct R&D and they have to recoup their investment before patent expiry--I know that well, but should or should not there be limits to profits?
It makes me feel dirty being in this business.
Williamsmith
5-24-16, 9:19am
I get that you are for the least government intervention as possible and let business do what they will. Just curious, what type of regulation do you support when it comes to business? Any at all??
Let's talk about a more complex issue: let's take one of our favorite topics: healthcare. TIME Magazine had an article that I was interested in reading because it's about my livelihood: marketing drugs. I hate to bite the hand that feeds me, but the article talked about the price gouging of pharmaceuticals. The main problem is that, according to one of the experts quoted:
There are a lot of reasons for that which I won't go into but how can you justify pharmaceutical companies getting away with increasing the prices of their medications by double digits EVERY YEAR? Just because they can? It's a horrendous abuse of the system. I know that they need to conduct R&D and they have to recoup their investment before patent expiry--I know that well, but should or should not there be limits to profits?
It makes me feel dirty being in this business.
The only reason pharmaceutical companies are getting away with the price increases is BECAUSE of the effects of government intervention in medical care over the past fifty years. Government has create the trough at which they feed. Don't you think things would be getting just a little bit better by now if government control actually worked? A return to true freedom to seek medical care on the open market is what we need. The only way to provide medical care as a "right" is by force...by oppressive beuraucracies, rationing and deprivation. We have been going in the wrong direction. We need a compass to get out of the woods, not more wandering around.
Yes, there is so much gray area in what you think is the best government spending. I work for a school district and have some funding from federal grants. I 100% support the after school funding I get, all over I see that it is being used well and has an impact (it better for the amount of checks and balances and data we do), however I do not vote for every bond and mill levy for the school district. It is being managed badly, and I am getting involved in that activism because I don't blame anyone for questioning how the money is being used. We need to fix some things honestly,
AMTRAK, U S Postal Service, Securities and Echange Commission, FDIC, Environmental Protection Agency, Corporation for Public Broadcasting, Federal Communications Commission. Transportation Safety Administration (Otherwise known as Bureau of Long Lines, Smoke and Mirrors.) Your turn.
I'm not sure I'd include the post office as a failure. If anyone honestly thinks that there's a private company out there who will deliver a letter to any address anywhere in the US for $.49, and to be able to do that while paying middle class wages and having the most overfunded pension in history I'd like some of whatever drugs they are taking.
But anyway, my point was simply that the government can, and has, done some pretty amazing large projects. Sure there have been failures. But to say that there haven't been major successes is simply not true.
The only reason pharmaceutical companies are getting away with the price increases is BECAUSE of the effects of government intervention in medical care over the past fifty years. Government has create the trough at which they feed. Don't you think things would be getting just a little bit better by now if government control actually worked? A return to true freedom to seek medical care on the open market is what we need. The only way to provide medical care as a "right" is by force...by oppressive beuraucracies, rationing and deprivation. We have been going in the wrong direction. We need a compass to get out of the woods, not more wandering around.
There is a lot of that, the government is involved, and in ways that support an unsustainable economy. I am not an expert but I am learning more and more.
Ultralight
5-24-16, 9:24am
Anyone ever read The Postman?
It made me want to be a mail carrier! And, it actually made me feel something I have never otherwise felt in life:
Patriotism.
The Postal Service is one of the best things America has done.
The only reason pharmaceutical companies are getting away with the price increases is BECAUSE of the effects of government intervention in medical care over the past fifty years.
To the extent that government is in the pocket of lobbyists I would agree with you. To the extent that we should just burn the barn down and start over, I would agree with you. But right now, I have no problem with government limiting the "how high can we go" profit-above-patients approach of some pharmaceutical companies.
I get that you are for the least government intervention as possible and let business do what they will. Just curious, what type of regulation do you support when it comes to business? Any at all??
Let's talk about a more complex issue: let's take one of our favorite topics: healthcare. TIME Magazine had an article that I was interested in reading because it's about my livelihood: marketing drugs. I hate to bite the hand that feeds me, but the article talked about the price gouging of pharmaceuticals. The main problem is that, according to one of the experts quoted:
There are a lot of reasons for that which I won't go into but how can you justify pharmaceutical companies getting away with increasing the prices of their medications by double digits EVERY YEAR? Just because they can? It's a horrendous abuse of the system. I know that they need to conduct R&D and they have to recoup their investment before patent expiry--I know that well, but should or should not there be limits to profits?
It makes me feel dirty being in this business.
I think there is a place for regulation, especially with regard to safety. I do suspect you and I would disagree on how much is enough, but that's what democracy is for.
As to something as specific as drug pricing, I agree that determining what is "fair" is complicated. I also suspect I'd be more inclined to choose free markets over a determination made by Time's "expert". Price controls have not had a very successful history since the Emperor Diocletian, so I'd probably be more inclined toward market pricing than you. On the other hand, health care in this country has been so regulated on different levels for so many years that you might be able to argue that we left free markets in the dust a long time ago. Perhaps the best we can hope for is trying to regulate more intelligently.
Ultralight
5-24-16, 9:47am
I think there is a place for regulation, especially with regard to safety.
Gotcha! :cool:
Gotcha! :cool:
Yeah. You got me. I'm not John Galt. I'm Lenin in a pinstriped suit because I think selling tainted drugs should be illegal.
Ultralight
5-24-16, 10:02am
...I think selling tainted drugs should be illegal.
Let the market sort it out! ;)
Let the market sort it out! ;)
You filthy capitalists are all alike. You don't care how the proletariat suffers as long as your retirement account keeps growing.
I can't wait for Bernie to take away your ill-gotten pelf.
Ultralight
5-24-16, 10:10am
You filthy capitalists are all alike. You don't care how the proletariat suffers as long as your retirement account keeps growing.
I can't wait for Bernie to take away your ill-gotten pelf.
You're cracking me up! :)
Did you hang around lefties a lot in college? You sure know how to ape us! Very authentic-sounding!
Williamsmith
5-24-16, 10:17am
To the extent that government is in the pocket of lobbyists I would agree with you. To the extent that we should just burn the barn down and start over, I would agree with you. But right now, I have no problem with government limiting the "how high can we go" profit-above-patients approach of some pharmaceutical companies.
Well, I have been in some predicaments where the proper tool just was not available and had to use what I had on hand. So if we can just back our way out of the room an inch at a time. And in that way reverse the process......I would use government to do that.
I delivered an inhaler to a rehabilitation facility. The client had been discharged or signed themselves out. The nurse sent it back to the pharmacy and said.."Well, that $500 we just saved."
I recently found a letter addressed to my dad two days after my birth, from the local hospital.
Room and Board.....$19
Laboratory.............$12
Drugs...................$.040
Total. $31.40
My dad likely made median income that year which according to the Department of Commerce was $5400. The hospital bill represented .6% of his annual income.
Last years median income was oddly enough $54,000. .6% would be $324. According to a CNN article, the average cost to have a baby last year was anywhere from $1,200 to $12,000 with a median or around $4,500. Not including specialists who bill separately.
Yeah, we got a big problem. Suppose we check out what we were doing in 1959 and head that direction.
You're cracking me up! :)
Did you hang around lefties a lot in college? You sure know how to ape us! Very authentic-sounding!
Some of my best friends are Bolsheviks.
I would say that when I went to college the student body was probably two-thirds left of center and the faculty maybe 80%. From what I understand those percentages have increased considerably over the intervening years. But even in those days, wearing an ROTC uniform on drill days marked the true non-conformists.
Ultralight
5-24-16, 10:24am
Some of my best friends are Bolsheviks.
I would say that when I went to college the student body was probably two-thirds left of center and the faculty maybe 80%. From what I understand those percentages have increased considerably over the intervening years. But even in those days, wearing an ROTC uniform on drill days marked the true non-conformists.
Very interesting!
I read a study in college that showed that when liberals go off to college they are likely to stay liberal. The same study tracked conservatives.
Apparently when conservatives go to college over a third will end up liberals by graduation.
Very interesting!
I read a study in college that showed that when liberals go off to college they are likely to stay liberal. The same study tracked conservatives.
Apparently when conservatives go to college over a third will end up liberals by graduation.
You have to admire the two-thirds who resist the ministrations of the Thought Police.
I believe the profit motive has made our health care system rotten to the core--but you knew that about me. Pharma sets the prices and the insurance companies call the shots in how drugs are used. Doctors are just gatekeepers who mostly go along with the process.
I remember reading in a newsmagazine probably thirty years ago that the establishment was optimistic that more women graduating from medical school would mean more tractable doctors who would go along unquestioning. Now with the (empty) threat of lawsuits and the innovation-stifling "best practice" orthodoxy, most doctors walk the line or bail out.
Meanwhile, this is the most (over)medicated country in history--and if patients dare to refuse (often useless and dangerous) drugs, they are called "con-compliant" and/or "fired" by their health care provider. Where non-pharmaceutical interventions might work, drugs are routinely pushed on the unwitting or helpless--often children and old people.
I'd like to see a grass-roots movement to challenge this, but given the huge amounts of money involved, I can't imagine a scenario in which it could happen.
Ultralight
5-24-16, 10:38am
You have to admire the two-thirds who resist the ministrations of the Thought Police.
I like to think these naive young conservatives come to college, are exposed to good ideas, and they merely recognize and adopt them because they make sense.
I like to think these naive young conservatives come to college, are exposed to good ideas, and they merely recognize and adopt them because they make sense.
I wonder how much of the programming they retain, say ten years after college.
Ultralight
5-24-16, 10:56am
I wonder how much of the programming they retain, say ten years after college.
I'd like to know as well. If they retain much of it, then we know that college is a fairly good assembly line for constructing (reconstructing?) liberals.
Williamsmith
5-24-16, 10:59am
I like to think these naive young conservatives come to college, are exposed to good ideas, and they merely recognize and adopt them because they make sense.
Fortunatley few of them are in Law Enforcement. Unfortunately a few of them are prosecutors, particularly in Baltimore.
Ultralight
5-24-16, 11:06am
Fortunatley few of them are in Law Enforcement. Unfortunately a few of them are prosecutors, particularly in Baltimore.
What do you mean?
Williamsmith
5-24-16, 11:14am
The actions of The States Attorney in Baltimore , Marilyn Mosby (who came from a family of law enforcement officers) are disgraceful. The charges she filed were absurd. Clearly, a very overwhelmed underprepared naive inexperienced prosecutor who was anxious to crucify someone to make a name for herself. Just despicable. A rank ametuer. Baltimore deserves better. I think.
Ultralight
5-24-16, 11:21am
The actions of The States Attorney in Baltimore , Marilyn Mosby (who came from a family of law enforcement officers) are disgraceful. The charges she filed were absurd. Clearly, a very overwhelmed underprepared naive inexperienced prosecutor who was anxious to crucify someone to make a name for herself. Just despicable. A rank ametuer. Baltimore deserves better. I think.
I don't know what happened there.
The actions of The States Attorney in Baltimore , Marilyn Mosby (who came from a family of law enforcement officers) are disgraceful. The charges she filed were absurd. Clearly, a very overwhelmed underprepared naive inexperienced prosecutor who was anxious to crucify someone to make a name for herself. Just despicable. A rank ametuer. Baltimore deserves better. I think.
I agree that they do. Obviously someone should be in jail for Freddie Gray's death. People don't just sever their own spinal cords.
I don't know what happened there.In it's simplest form, it is an attempt to appease the un-appeasable wrapped in the mis-labeled cloak of justice.
Ultralight
5-24-16, 11:24am
In it's simplest form, it is an attempt to appease the un-appeasable wrapped in the mis-labeled cloak of justice.
Vague.
Vague. In the absence of TV/Radio/Newspaper coverage, Google is your friend.
I don't pretend to be an expert in the case, but I understand that the William Porter case ended in a mistrial amid allegations of evidence being withheld from the defense.
Williamsmith
5-24-16, 11:56am
I agree that they do. Obviously someone should be in jail for Freddie Gray's death. People don't just sever their own spinal cords.
Freddie Grays spinal cord was not severed and he most likely would have never suffered a fatal injury had he remained on the floor of the van instead of trying to stand up while shackled and cuffed.
gimmethesimplelife
5-24-16, 1:40pm
The only reason pharmaceutical companies are getting away with the price increases is BECAUSE of the effects of government intervention in medical care over the past fifty years. Government has create the trough at which they feed. Don't you think things would be getting just a little bit better by now if government control actually worked? A return to true freedom to seek medical care on the open market is what we need. The only way to provide medical care as a "right" is by force...by oppressive beuraucracies, rationing and deprivation. We have been going in the wrong direction. We need a compass to get out of the woods, not more wandering around.The only way I can see American health care improving at this point is if more people vote with their feet and offshore their health care. Starve the system and I believe the prices would go down. I do my part towards this at any rate.....Rob
Ultralight
5-24-16, 1:43pm
The only way I can see American health care improving at this point is if more people vote with their feet and offshore their health care. Starve the system and I believe the prices would go down. I do my part towards this at any rate.....Rob
Tell that to someone who is poor and lives in Kansas or South Dakota.
gimmethesimplelife
5-24-16, 5:01pm
Tell that to someone who is poor and lives in Kansas or South Dakota.Good point and I don't disagree. My point is the more health care we can offshore, the more we can hope to have power over it. I wish it were not this way.....but it is. I don't know a better solution than to starve the system for those who can. Rob
Williamsmith
5-24-16, 6:20pm
Good point and I don't disagree. My point is the more health care we can offshore, the more we can hope to have power over it. I wish it were not this way.....but it is. I don't know a better solution than to starve the system for those who can. Rob
Kinda like boycotting Wal-Mart.
frugal-one
5-24-16, 9:42pm
Whew, I thought I had heard more negative towards Trump from him but he seems to be more ignoring Trump and focusing on Clinton
I noticed that too the last few days. He was ticked that Clinton would not debate with him in CA. Why would she? From what I understand is that it is VERY UNLIKELY he will have enough delegates. Time for him to call it a day and let Trump and Clinton duke it out.
ApatheticNoMore
5-24-16, 10:12pm
Time for him to call it a day and let Trump and Clinton duke it out.
that's the time to truly stop listening, what could anyone possibly hear at that point that wouldn't just destroy another brain cell (and not the most pleasant way to kill them either)
I noticed that too the last few days. He was ticked that Clinton would not debate with him in CA. Why would she? From what I understand is that it is VERY UNLIKELY he will have enough delegates. Time for him to call it a day and let Trump and Clinton duke it out.
He should be ticked. She, and her supporters like Debbie Wasserman Shultz, have spent the whole campaign trying to minimize his abililty to influence the primary through debates. She's rightly afraid that the more people hear him actually talk the less effective the "democratic SOCIALIST" meme will stick. And since California is the most populous state in the union I personally think he should absolutely stick it out to the end. While she has sold her soul to EVERYONE http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-24/heres-full-list-organizations-paid-hillary-clinton-2013-2015 just maybe he will be able to keep pushing things in the right direction. Especially if he wins CA. Bottom line, if she can't win after this primary season with Bernie then she deserves to lose, considering who her presumptive competition in the general is.
[QUOTE=frugal-one;242240]I noticed that too the last few days. He was ticked that Clinton would not debate with him in CA. Why would she? From what I understand is that it is VERY UNLIKELY he will have enough delegates. Time for him to call it a day and let Trump and Clinton duke it out.[/Q
Honestly I am getting beyond frustrated, he has amazing sized rallies, small dollar donations that are at least if not more than the other candidates (I am not sure how to get the 100% truth so I am giving everything I read some wiggle room), and he is gaining support throughout the race. The most recent information I got from his campaign are several candidates in a variety of races that he supports, if you donate it will be shared with all the candidates (wasn't that Clinton's reasoning for raising so much money) So I see pictures from rallies of these enormous crowds and then sometimes I turn on regular TV to just check in and all I see is Trump.
Maybe he won't get the nomination, I can live with that but he is my first choice.
The best explanation I've heard for Bernie staying in the race is that he simply can't stop talking. I've read he was invited to leave a commune in 1971 because his devotion to talking precluded maintaining a work ethic acceptable to hippies. His career since seems to have been based on the primacy of talk over outcome. So as long as there are baristas willing to send him their tip jars to pay for the microphone, he'll keep talking.
I've heard the Sanders camp complain that Mrs. Clinton has only debated him three of the four times she had previously agreed to. In their innocence, they fail to see that a 25% discount rate on a Clinton promise is actually a pretty good deal. Honor does not come easily to someone who claimed to dodge Bosnian bullets which harsh facts revealed to be flower petals. I would disagree with jp1 that she sold her soul. It would be more accurate to say she has crowd-sourced it. I must admit the accountant in me is impressed by the tax-effective way in which she has monetized her prospective influence.
As a Republican, I hope Mrs. Clinton rewards Debbie Wasserman Schultz for her fealty. We Republicans have little enough to rejoice in this year, and any bone Hillary could toss us would be appreciated.
Ultralight
5-25-16, 8:35am
We Republicans have little enough to rejoice in this year, and any bone Hillary could toss us would be appreciated.
She'll toss you plenty of bones and other kitchen scraps. Don't you worry.
Williamsmith
5-25-16, 8:37am
[QUOTE=frugal-one;242240]I noticed that too the last few days. He was ticked that Clinton would not debate with him in CA. Why would she? From what I understand is that it is VERY UNLIKELY he will have enough delegates. Time for him to call it a day and let Trump and Clinton duke it out.[/Q
Honestly I am getting beyond frustrated, he has amazing sized rallies, small dollar donations that are at least if not more than the other candidates (I am not sure how to get the 100% truth so I am giving everything I read some wiggle room), and he is gaining support throughout the race. The most recent information I got from his campaign are several candidates in a variety of races that he supports, if you donate it will be shared with all the candidates (wasn't that Clinton's reasoning for raising so much money) So I see pictures from rallies of these enormous crowds and then sometimes I turn on regular TV to just check in and all I see is Trump.
Maybe he won't get the nomination, I can live with that but he is my first choice.
A growing number of principled voters are saying that they can't live with that. Sanders clearly has ignited a significant base of supporters. If you look at his policy it is night and day different than Clinton's entire political career. And Bernie supporters know it. So the question is, do you vote for someone you quietly despise just so someone you openly despise does not win? Or do you make your vote a personal reflection of your own values, morals and judgement?
I say the longer this goes on, this fractured Democratic Party, the more exposed Clinton becomes. At this point in time in 2008 wasn't Obama the unifying candidate? The Clinton's need to be exorcise from the Democratic Party. It could be so much better than it is without them. Ditto the Republican Party, which is in shambles.
The Libertarians and for that matter I guess the Green .....is there another, they have such an opportunity to expand there spheres of influences. People are looking around for something to get behind. Right or wrong in their solutions they have correctly identified what troubles our country and neither mainstream party has the integrity to address them. Tired of economics that favor the wealthy, tired of a crusade against self defense at home while being #1 in arms exports to the dictators and regimes in chaos, tired of a health care system too expensive for many to access, tired of schools that can't produce well rounded thinking citizens, tired of consuming on the worlds largest debt, tired.........and what are our choices, a really tired old politician and a hypocrite who can't make his mind up about what he will do today let alone six months from now.
She'll toss you plenty of bones and other kitchen scraps. Don't you worry.
Yeah. And then bill us for filet mignon.
Ultralight
5-25-16, 8:46am
Yeah. And then bill us for filet mignon.
Hyperbolic, but I get your point.
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by her policies and so forth. She is not so different from a Republican, really.
Hyperbolic, but I get your point.
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by her policies and so forth. She is not so different from a Republican, really.
Well, she does seem to be to the right of Trump on a number of issues. To the extent that either she or he will actually do what they claim.
I was reading the 1956 platform for the Republican party, it is available here http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=25838 It talks about unions and living wages and keeping a strong social security. It also talks about balanced budgets and supporting workers such as immigrants, elderly etc. to assure everyone of their fair rights of employment. I don;t hear that now, Yeah it has been a few years but maybe we need to look at this.
Ultralight
5-25-16, 9:24am
I was reading the 1956 platform for the Republican party, it is available here http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=25838 It talks about unions and living wages and keeping a strong social security. It also talks about balanced budgets and supporting workers such as immigrants, elderly etc. to assure everyone of their fair rights of employment. I don;t hear that now, Yeah it has been a few years but maybe we need to look at this.
That was back with the "reds" infiltrated the GOP. It is null and void!
Unions=Commies
Living wages=Commies
gimmethesimplelife
5-25-16, 9:56am
I find myself completely disillusioned with American politics this Election Year. The irony that I'm grudgingly voting for Hillary as I believe she won't antagonize Mexico as Trump will - thereby not putting at risk hopping across the border for affordable medical and dental - is not lost on me. If this is my only motivation for voting it's a fail as an Election Cycle in my book.
I don't feel any of the hope of change and hope that Obama inspired in me....with Hillary I'm voting for continued access to Mexican health care. I have no hopes for anything else with either Hillary or Trump. I will say though that this outlook differs from some of the 85006......there are some Hispanic women really into backing Hillary and I say that's great....I just can't muster up any excitement about a HRC Presidency - other than gratitude for the lack of fear that a Trump Presidency would instill in me. I wish I could go hide somewhere until it's over and the fat pollster sings.....Rob
I was reading the 1956 platform for the Republican party, it is available here http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=25838 It talks about unions and living wages and keeping a strong social security. It also talks about balanced budgets and supporting workers such as immigrants, elderly etc. to assure everyone of their fair rights of employment. I don;t hear that now, Yeah it has been a few years but maybe we need to look at this.
This meme was launched by Occupy Democrats a while ago, and has been making the rounds of the usual suspects. I don't suppose we should be surprised that the political rhetoric of the time was a bit more collectivist, coming as it did in the wake of depression and war. The Democrats' platform at the time was remarkably similar, although they add some soft-on-communism accusations and make no mention of some of the less savory activities of southern Democrats of that era beyond saying the government should reject "the use of force" to implement recent court decisions and legislation related to civil rights.
Williamsmith
5-25-16, 10:03am
I find myself completely disillusioned with American politics this Election Year. The irony that I'm grudgingly voting for Hillary as I believe she won't antagonize Mexico as Trump will - thereby not putting at risk hopping across the border for affordable medical and dental - is not lost on me. If this is my only motivation for voting it's a fail as an Election Cycle in my book.
I don't feel any of the hope of change and hope that Obama inspired in me....with Hillary I'm voting for continued access to Mexican health care. I have no hopes for anything else with either Hillary or Trump. I will say though that this outlook differs from some of the 85006......there are some Hispanic women really into backing Hillary and I say that's great....I just can't muster up any excitement about a HRC Presidency - other than gratitude for the lack of fear a Trump Presidency would instill in me. I wish I could go hide somewhere until it's over and the fat pollster sings.....Rob
Rob, you have Libertarian candidates that believe in open borders......and have not profited from their public service to the tune of at least 21 million in speeches to Wall Street cronies. Do you think they are paying her for her opinions?
Truthfully I don't think you have anything to worry about. Democrats need the voters and Republicans need the cheap labor. There will be no wall.
Williamsmith
5-25-16, 10:07am
This meme was launched by Occupy Democrats a while ago, and has been making the rounds of the usual suspects. I don't suppose we should be surprised that the political rhetoric of the time was a bit more collectivist, coming as it did in the wake of depression and war. The Democrats' platform at the time was remarkably similar, although they add some soft-on-communism accusations and make no mention of some of the less savory activities of southern Democrats of that era beyond saying the government should reject "the use of force" to implement recent court decisions and legislation related to civil rights.
Well, whatever the meme of the day is......I Like Ike was President and was preparing for another term. Some of his quotes follow that would shock the conscience of any self respecting conservative. Ike could not have fit into the Republican Establishment these days. He was way too "progressive". Or are these quotes from a recent Bernie speech?
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some 50 miles of concrete highway. We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. This, I repeat, is the best way of life to be found on the road. the world has been taking. This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron."
Labor
I have no use for those — regardless of their political party — who hold some foolish dream of spinning the clock back to days when unorganized labor was a huddled, almost helpless mass.
Speech to the American Federation of Labor, New York City, 9/17/52
Today in America unions have a secure place in our industrial life. Only a handful of unreconstructed reactionaries harbor the ugly thought of breaking unions. Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to join the union of their choice.
Speech to the American Federation of Labor, New York City, 9/17/52
Government can do a great deal to aid the settlement of labor disputes without allowing itself to be employed as an ally of either side. Its proper role in industrial strife is to encourage the process of mediation and conciliation.
State of the Union Message, Washington, DC, 2/2/53
So if that platform was a response to the war that our country had just been part of, then what is our response to recession?
Ultralight
5-25-16, 10:28am
So if that platform was a response to the war that our country had just been part of, then what is our response to recession?
Those Repubs at the time were just foolish and naive. They did not know the horrible dangers of living wages, social security, and unions.
Zoe Girl: You are talking about economics that empower working families; that is heresy among conservatives.
gimmethesimplelife
5-25-16, 10:48am
Rob, you have Libertarian candidates that believe in open borders......and have not profited from their public service to the tune of at least 21 million in speeches to Wall Street cronies. Do you think they are paying her for her opinions?
Truthfully I don't think you have anything to worry about. Democrats need the voters and Republicans need the cheap labor. There will be no wall.I sure hope you are right. I see this potential wall as a major human rights violation on both sides of the border, meaning for US citizens/legal residents, too. Rob
Those Repubs at the time were just foolish and naive.
Speaking of foolish and naïve, I think too many today can't grasp the concept of free will and choice. As a conservative, I'd gladly join a union if one were available to me in an industry and location of my choosing. What I would not agree to is to be forced to join a union as a condition of gainful employment. There's a distinction there may have been lost on members of certain ideological groups.
Ultralight
5-25-16, 10:55am
It looks like Paul Ryan is putting his white horse back in the stable and endorsing The Donald.
And The Donald is apparently going to get enough delegates to easily clinch the nom.
GOP! I like this new look on you. You're beautiful, babe! Don't never shave! lol
Ultralight
5-25-16, 10:58am
Speaking of foolish and naïve, I think too many today can't grasp the concept of free will and choice. As a conservative, I'd gladly join a union if one were available to me in an industry and location of my choosing. What I would not agree to is to be forced to join a union as a condition of gainful employment. There's a distinction there may have been lost on members of certain ideological groups.
I don't think people should be forced to join a union. But I also don't think a union should be forced to protect and represent someone who is not a member.
I don't think people should be forced to join a union. But I also don't think a union should be forced to protect and represent someone who is not a member.
And I don't think the employer should have to pay the same wages and benefits to someone who doesn't join the union. If that individual decides that the union is not in his best interest he can negotiate his own wages and benefits.
And I don't think the employer should have to pay the same wages and benefits to someone who doesn't join the union. If that individual decides that the union is not in his best interest he can negotiate his own wages and benefits.Which is what happens in non closed shop union environments. Win/Win, right?
Ultralight
5-25-16, 11:16am
Which is what happens in non closed shop union environments. Win/Win, right?
Actually no. The law mandates that an employee who is not a member of the union get all the same protection and representation that members get. That is why they are called freeloaders.
Unions and their members would not be upset about "right-to-work" laws and such if it were not for this mandate.
catherine
5-25-16, 11:22am
Breaking News: The State Department Inspector General determined that Hillary broke Federal rules on record-keeping. Also, she did not cooperate with the investigation.
Williamsmith
5-25-16, 11:24am
I don't think people should be forced to join a union. But I also don't think a union should be forced to protect and represent someone who is not a member.
This!
I was not a member of my police union. But I paid a fee equal to union dues to cover the cost of bargaining, implementing and enforcing the contract. It was known as a fair share fee. As a non member I still benefited as a bargaining unit employee. In this way, I enjoyed the benefits of union wages, better health insurance, and improved workplace environment/updated equipment and training that those in employment at non union jobs always were denied. In this way I also did not endorse or support political activities or candidates that did not espouse my beliefs.
The "Right to Work" movement is simply a union busting tool of right wing conservative government. Another answer to a problem that doesn't exist in order to push an agenda.
Actually no. The law mandates that an employee who is not a member of the union get all the same protection and representation that members get. That is why they are called freeloaders.
Unions and their members would not be upset about "right-to-work" laws and such if it were not for this mandate.
I was actually thinking of the distinction between closed shop union environments and non-union environments, not between 'closed' and 'right to work' union environments. But, I'm glad you brought up the 'freeloader' designation as I'm curious if you would apply it to other areas where people enjoy a mandated benefit without paying their fair share into a system, maybe in some aspects of expanded Medicaid?
Ultralight
5-25-16, 11:27am
Breaking News: The State Department Inspector General determined that Hillary broke Federal rules on record-keeping. Also, she did not cooperate with the investigation.
LOL
She is above the law.
Ultralight
5-25-16, 11:29am
I was actually thinking of the distinction between closed shop union environments and non-union environments, not between 'closed' and 'right to work' union environments. But, I'm glad you brought up the 'freeloader' designation as I'm curious if you would apply it to other areas where people enjoy a mandated benefit without paying their fair share into a system, maybe in some aspects of expanded Medicaid?
Freeloaders in a union shop steal from working families.
That ain't right.
Freeloaders in a union shop steal from working families.
That ain't right.
That's not an answer to the question, but I do understand the pressure to be inconsistent.
iris lilies
5-25-16, 11:32am
Breaking News: The State Department Inspector General determined that Hillary broke Federal rules on record-keeping. Also, she did not cooperate with the investigation.
Breaking Federal "rules" would get a hand slap, no? Its not breaking the law.
take a deep breath, Bernie is far from in.
So if that platform was a response to the war that our country had just been part of, then what is our response to recession?
We were emerging from a long period of rationing, price controls, regimentation and general government control that began before the war. That colored the thinking of the time. Just as our painfully long climb from recession and need to deal with robust foreign competition provides a certain level of fear and resentment for contemporary politicians to exploit.
You might as well take the Democrats to task for their pro-slavery, anti-Central Banking 1856 platform.
Williamsmith
5-25-16, 11:36am
Breaking News: The State Department Inspector General determined that Hillary broke Federal rules on record-keeping. Also, she did not cooperate with the investigation.
I don't think Obama really likes Hillary. In fact, I think she has been annoying to him for years. Maybe, secretly he is going to take her down and let Bernie and Elizabeth take on the Abominable Donald.
Ultralight
5-25-16, 11:36am
That's not an answer to the question, but I do understand the pressure to be inconsistent.
I think expanding medicaid is fine, I say expand it to everyone. And use a more progressive tax structure to fund it.
I don't think Obama really likes Hillary.
He's on record as saying she's "likable enough".
Ultralight
5-25-16, 11:39am
Nothing will happen.
I think expanding medicaid is fine, I say expand it to everyone. And use a more progressive tax structure to fund it.
So we couldn't mandate a more progressive union fee arrangement to cover employees exercising their right to not join a union?
Williamsmith
5-25-16, 11:47am
He's on record as saying she's "likable enough".
I Thought that was a quote attributed to Bill........question is likeable enough for what?
I Thought that was a quote attributed to Bill........question is likeable enough for what?
I believe he said it during a debate in New Hampshire. I remember it raising hackles at the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3DeCLPwxXI
iris lilies
5-25-16, 12:48pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3DeCLPwxXI
The Prez' comment is the definitin of "disdain." Kinda plays into whats happening today,Hillary under the microscope about her email server. Obama could shut that down if he wanted.
Teacher Terry
5-25-16, 1:03pm
Allowing open shops where people can choose to join or not, breaking the public unions like that jerk Walker did, etc is bringing down wages. Also Medicare or Medicaid for everyone is the only answer that makes sense in our very broken health care system. Many now have health insurance that they can't afford to use. Ugh!
iris lilies
5-25-16, 1:05pm
Allowing open shops where people can choose to join or not, breaking the public unions like that jerk Walker did, etc is bringing down wages. Also Medicare or Medicaid for everyone is the only answer that makes sense in our very broken health care system. Many now have health insurance that they can't afford to use. Ugh!
So, you want to do away with the ACA?
Teacher Terry
5-25-16, 1:09pm
Yes I want a single payor system that works for everyone. When the ACA first started I never imagined that the plans would have such high deductibles that people can't afford to use it. Even though we pay a small fortune for our insurance at least I can afford it use it due to the reasonable co-pays, etc. I have had a couple of friends lose everything even though they had insurance to long term illnesses. One had a paid for home that they had to keep taking equity out of it to pay their share of medical bills. eventually they lost the house. Due to both spouses having cancer, etc they lost everything and did nothing wrong. When he died they had 5k left for a lifetime of hard work.
iris lilies
5-25-16, 1:31pm
Yes I want a single payor system that works for everyone. When the ACA first started I never imagined that the plans would have such high deductibles that people can't afford to use it. Even though we pay a small fortune for our insurance at least I can afford it use it due to the reasonable co-pays, etc. I have had a couple of friends lose everything even though they had insurance to long term illnesses. One had a paid for home that they had to keep taking equity out of it to pay their share of medical bills. eventually they lost the house. Due to both spouses having cancer, etc they lost everything and did nothing wrong. When he died they had 5k left for a lifetime of hard work.
It sounds like you think the taxpayers should have picked up all of their costs so that they could leave (as example) $150,000 in their estate.
I disagree.
As far as the ACA ceiling limited deductibles to $6,000 per year, yes, that does not work for everyone.
But many households CAN afford it and should cut back on spending and save something toward medical costs. Pretending that all medical products and services should be free is part of the mindset that gets these middle class households into teouble. They've got plenty of income to save up $6,000 but a cacouynf political voices (cough cough Bernie) tells them it aint rights, it otta be free.
But of course its not enough, its never enough, Im not,sure what "enough" even looks like
iris lilies
5-25-16, 1:34pm
The best explanation I've heard for Bernie staying in the race is that he simply can't stop talking. I've read he was invited to leave a commune in 1971 because his devotion to talking precluded maintaining a work ethic acceptable to hippies. His career since seems to have been based on the primacy of talk over outcome. So as long as there are baristas willing to send him their tip jars to pay for the microphone, he'll keep talking.
I've heard the Sanders camp complain that Mrs. Clinton has only debated him three of the four times she had previously agreed to. In their innocence, they fail to see that a 25% discount rate on a Clinton promise is actually a pretty good deal. Honor does not come easily to someone who claimed to dodge Bosnian bullets which harsh facts revealed to be flower petals. I would disagree with jp1 that she sold her soul. It would be more accurate to say she has crowd-sourced it. I must admit the accountant in me is impressed by the tax-effective way in which she has monetized her prospective influence.
As a Republican, I hope Mrs. Clinton rewards Debbie Wasserman Schultz for her fealty. We Republicans have little enough to rejoice in this year, and any bone Hillary could toss us would be appreciated.
This post was hilarious.
And Bernie the talking machne, not hard to grok..
... But of course its not enough, its never enough, Im not,sure what "enough" even looks like.
It looks like ordinary people being able to pay for their health care without financial ruin. It means health care without a thick layer of fat (profit) between doctor and patient. Surely you're old enough to remember what that was like.
Ultralight
5-25-16, 1:37pm
Healthcare should be affordable, as in a single-payer system. But I also think people need to stop eating processed foods and such too.
iris lilies
5-25-16, 1:38pm
It looks like ordinary people being able to pay for their health care without financial ruin. It means health care without a thick layer of fat (profit) between doctor and patient. Surely you're old enough to remember what that was like.
Jane, ordinary people CAN pay for their health care without financial ruin accordng to the mandated ceilings of the ACA.
If you think $6,000 is out of scope for middle class families, then I wonder how much you DO think they should have to pay. Also, the Prez determined a percentage of our incme that is reasonable to pay for health insurance. Do you disagree with that percentage and the Prez?
Ultralight
5-25-16, 1:44pm
$6000 is mucho diniero for the workin' man.
I disagree with having insurance companies dictate health care and health care costs. This differentiates me from the President. I believe in a single payer system paid for with tax monies.
ETA: $6000 is more money than I have run up in my entire lifetime of medical visits. So yes, I think that is a wildly inflated yearly cost.
Ultralight
5-25-16, 1:45pm
I disagree with having insurance companies dictate health care and health care costs. This differentiates me from the President. I believe in a single payer system paid for with tax monies.
You disagree with the Pres?
Looks like iris lillies "GOTCHA!"
Teacher Terry
5-25-16, 2:22pm
IL: I don't care if they had any $ to leave to their estate. What happened is the wife is still alive with Alzheimer's and I had to find her a place to live that only costs 1850/month that is not a rat infested shit hole. Which meant I had to put her an hour away from me. No one else is willing to drive that far so we are the only visitors she has. If we could have put her in town her life would be better. If she had some of that $ to last at least 6 months then once it is gone Medicaid would have picked up the difference. But you can't go into a home on it here. Her DH was a veteran of Vietnam-injured severely and in hospital for a year. Agent orange caused his rare cancer. If he would have won he would have had $ for her but he lost. Now he is dead and the military automatically appeals it and get this even if she dies they will keep appealing until the appeals run out. The only ones that can receive the $ are kids under 18. HIs kids are in their 40's. What a waste of money that can't be stopped because I asked. I also had a copy of all his records since he was disabled by the military although he worked until about 9 months before he died although he was 66. Once he lost his ability to talk and hear he couldn't work. WEll supposedly the military has all sorts of benefits for surviving spouses but none that they qualified for. If they had the home that was paid for I would have sold it for 400k and she would be in a nice place. I tell everyone I know don't pay your medical bills if you can't afford it because here you can Homestead your home up to a certain amount and that $ is protected. By doing the right thing they had few choices. But the taxpayer didn't get stuck with a dime because of them. That gives me a warm and cozy feeling-not!!!
Healthcare should be affordable, as in a single-payer system. But I also think people need to stop eating processed foods and such too.
Which federal agency would you see enforcing the processed foods and such prohibition?
Ultralight
5-25-16, 2:31pm
Which federal agency would you see enforcing the processed foods and such prohibition?
National Guard. LOL
National Guard. LOL
The 28th Mechanized Infantry Division could be federalized. I'd like to see the campaign ribbon for Pringles interdiction.
Ultralight
5-25-16, 2:40pm
The 28th Mechanized Infantry Division could be federalized. I'd like to see the campaign ribbon for Pringles interdiction.
!thumbsup!
frugal-one
5-25-16, 3:59pm
I find myself completely disillusioned with American politics this Election Year. The irony that I'm grudgingly voting for Hillary ....I just can't muster up any excitement about a HRC Presidency - other than FEAR a Trump Presidency would instill in me. I wish I could go hide somewhere until it's over.
Rarely do I agree with you Rob... but this says it all!
gimmethesimplelife
5-25-16, 5:26pm
Rarely do I agree with you Rob... but this says it all!No snark here at all, ok? I'm pleased we agree on this, I really am. Gives me some hope. Rob
Williamsmith
5-26-16, 1:59pm
Today, one half of the worst candidates for Presidential election in modern history clinched the nomination for the Republican Party. Donald Trump IS the nominee. Only the Democrats could field a worse candidate. But Sanders could still run the table, thats how bad she is.
Ultralight
5-26-16, 2:14pm
Donald Trump IS the nominee.
What?!
But Sanders could still run the table, thats how bad she is.
But as a practical matter, wouldn't that be the equivalent of juggling chainsaws on a unicycle on a tightrope over Niagra Falls during an ice storm?
I would think at this point, Hillary would need to strangle puppies and throw her poop at disabled veterans to blow it now.
But then, it's been that kind of year.
What?!
It won't be official until the convention, but yes, it looks like the addition of unbound delegates puts him to 1238 delegates.
Ultralight
5-26-16, 2:18pm
Wow!
Ultralight
5-26-16, 2:21pm
Cleveland could get interesting.
Once, in basic training, they put us in a shed and pumped it full of tear gas (for educational purposes).
I didn't weep as hard then as I am now.
Ultralight
5-26-16, 2:30pm
You know, now that Don is the guy... it feels different than back when it was just this silly idea that would probably never come to fruition.
Williamsmith
5-26-16, 3:12pm
You know, now that Don is the guy... it feels different than back when it was just this silly idea that would probably never come to fruition.
Well, my original post, now has the answer to "What are you going to do about it?"
Nothing can can be done about it now. Some of you still hold out hope for Hillary but I thinks she's toast. The rust belt is going to make things interesting. If Pennsylvania could annex Philadelphia to New Jersey, this would be a slam dunk.
Ultralight
5-26-16, 3:18pm
So you are right now predicting Trumpy is the next prez?
I like what Ramesh Ponnuru said:
"Each party is on track to nominate the only candidate who could possibly lose the election to the other."
Williamsmith
5-26-16, 6:11pm
So you are right now predicting Trumpy is the next prez?
I am praying with all my being that Trumpy is the next Prez.....as long as my other option is the Hildabeast.
frugal-one
5-26-16, 6:59pm
I keep wondering if Trump paid Sanders to have a debate. Sanders is "toast", so why continue? Trump said he wants to be paid to debate Sanders. He says he will donate the money to a worthy cause in his name (smart... a tax write off for him).
frugal-one
5-26-16, 7:03pm
I am praying with all my being that Trumpy is the next Prez.....as long as my other option is the Hildabeast.
What does Trump have to offer? He has absolutely no experience in anything! I don't like Hillary either but at least she doesn't have to be coached as to what the party stands for or have "advisors" speak when he should be doing the talking. Trump now stated the "advisors" misunderstood or misquoted him. The head of the Republican party does not endorse him. I really don't understand what people see in him!!!!!!!!!!!
Williamsmith
5-26-16, 7:54pm
What does Trump have to offer? He has absolutely no experience in anything! I don't like Hillary either but at least she doesn't have to be coached as to what the party stands for or have "advisors" speak when he should be doing the talking. Trump now stated the "advisors" misunderstood or misquoted him. The head of the Republican party does not endorse him. I really don't understand what people see in him!!!!!!!!!!!
A lot of hard working people see this country being led in the wrong direction by feckless hypocrites. They don't care about the party, they don't care who they offend, they just want to reclaim the greatness of this country and they believe he can lead the country back toward greatness again. Me, I just think Melania would make a great First Lady. I'm voting for her.
Ultralight
5-26-16, 8:04pm
I think Trump is going to be good for America, I really do.
ApatheticNoMore
5-26-16, 8:28pm
He will be a disaster, and not good for anyone (except himself the one he was in it for to begin with. And maybe his donors - oh yea you know he's funneling big money now - he's not self-financing at this point and though the money can be hard to chase you can see it in his policies who it likely is). But he and Hillary are both pretty bad. And if she wants to write off California I hope we repay her the favor and write off her.
Ultralight
5-26-16, 8:41pm
I think Trump's presidency will prevent America from kicking the can down the road again.
frugal-one
5-26-16, 8:44pm
A lot of hard working people see this country being led in the wrong direction by feckless hypocrites. They don't care about the party, they don't care who they offend, they just want to reclaim the greatness of this country and they believe he can lead the country back toward greatness again. Me, I just think Melania would make a great First Lady. I'm voting for her.
Everyone keeps saying America needs to be great again. Obviously, you have not travelled outside the US. We ARE great! As far as Melania.... I don't think a person who posed in the nude .. shows the dignity/class to be a first lady. As far as hypocrites-- Trump takes the cake. He outsourced jobs, was involved with the Mafia, scammed people of their money in the Trump University fiasco, and did whatever he felt necessary to make money (legal or not). BTW his case comes up in November for the Trump University debacle (unfortunately, after the election). If he is found guilty, he will be a felon. That is the type of person he is.
Ultralight
5-26-16, 8:46pm
I have been to Europe. I know America ain't all that it thinks it is.
frugal-one
5-26-16, 8:49pm
I have been to Europe. I know America ain't all that it thinks it is.
I have been around the world and KNOW America IS great!
Ultralight
5-26-16, 8:51pm
Compared to Bangladesh America is great.
Compared to Denmark...Norway...The UK... America has a ways to go.
I ain't been all around the world, but I have been to England, Spain, Portugal, and Costa Rica
Williamsmith
5-26-16, 9:03pm
Everyone keeps saying America needs to be great again. Obviously, you have not travelled outside the US. We ARE great! As far as Melania.... I don't think a person who posed in the nude .. shows the dignity/class to be a first lady. As far as hypocrites-- Trump takes the cake. He outsourced jobs, was involved with the Mafia, scammed people of their money in the Trump University fiasco, and did whatever he felt necessary to make money (legal or not). BTW his case comes up in November for the Trump University debacle (unfortunately, after the election). If he is found guilty, he will be a felon. That is the type of person he is.
Most Trump supporters either don't have the discretionary money or maybe get two days vacation a year or if they do have the money and time, have no desire to travel outside the US. They like it fine right here but as GREAT as it is here, they know it could be fantastic. We don't apologize to every Tom, Dick and Harry country for our greatness. A First Lady who had a risqué photo shoot before she ever got in the White House or a President who got a blowjob while he was in the Oval Office....who shows more dignity? Did you know when you take out the trash, you are involved with the mafia.....when you recycle, you contribute to organized crime. The Trump University cases are all civil litigation. That doesn't make him a felon.
I think the guy has been terribly misunderstood. He's a political moron but a very valuable one. MHe's got a lot of people "rattled". A lot of smug people who thought they had the country in he palms of their hands and now.......crap happens.
ApatheticNoMore
5-26-16, 9:52pm
Most Trump supporters either don't have the discretionary money or maybe get two days vacation a year or if they do have the money and time, have no desire to travel outside the US.
that should be enough of a reason to convince them things kind of suck here (I mean hey that's a sucky life). I'm not trying to travel far either though (my carbon impact is enough just surviving thank you very much), but I like time off.
gimmethesimplelife
5-26-16, 10:05pm
I have been to Europe. I know America ain't all that it thinks it is.Plus one billion......coming from someone with family in Austria that has lived with actual everyday people in Austria. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
5-26-16, 10:09pm
I have been around the world and KNOW America IS great!Compared to Venezuela it's paradise....I won't deny that. Depending on your social class, America is not very competitive with much of Western Europe in terms of quality of life. Sad but true.....once again depending on your social class. And once again this comes from someone with family in Europe who has lived amongst everyday people. Rob
I think Trump's presidency will prevent America from kicking the can down the road again.
While i agree with you that i am tired of the can being kicked I'm not sure trump will solve that problem. Instead of kicking the can he may well steer the country into the ditch, off the road altogether. My concern about a trump oresidency isnt so much myself. I'm an upper middle class white guy. I'll likely muddle through. But for people who arent straight white male christians life will potentially be so much worse under trump. Hillary wont likely be great for them but at least she wont actively be trying to harm them. If she wins she gives the bernie revolution time to continue building and kill the neoliberal bullcrap that bill created by turning the prty into a bunch of damn nicon republicans. If trump wins all those minirities that make the democratic prty will just be struggling to not get dead.
Ultralight
5-27-16, 7:52am
While i agree with you that i am tired of the can being kicked I'm not sure trump will solve that problem. Instead of kicking the can he may well steer the country into the ditch, off the road altogether. My concern about a trump oresidency isnt so much myself. I'm an upper middle class white guy. I'll likely muddle through. But for people who arent straight white male christians life will potentially be so much worse under trump. Hillary wont likely be great for them but at least she wont actively be trying to harm them. If she wins she gives the bernie revolution time to continue building and kill the neoliberal bullcrap that bill created by turning the prty into a bunch of damn nicon republicans. If trump wins all those minirities that make the democratic prty will just be struggling to not get dead.
I think America needs to hit rock bottom before it can really rise up and be a respectable nation on par with Denmark or Norway or even Canada. Trump is America's rock bottom.
I think America needs to hit rock bottom before it can really rise up and be a respectable nation on par with Denmark or Norway or even Canada. Trump is America's rock bottom.
He is for sure. the problem though is that your approach is sort of like the wacky governor of maine who thinks that cops should not be carrying naxolone because addicts will just overdose again so therefore it's a waste of effort. Just because someone is an addict or a country is f'd up doesnt mean the solution is to encourage them to crash as fast and hard as possible so that they can then get better.
I think America needs to hit rock bottom before it can really rise up and be a respectable nation on par with Denmark or Norway or even Canada. Trump is America's rock bottom.What, in your mind, prevents the US from being a respectable nation now?
Ultralight
5-27-16, 8:33am
What, in your mind, prevents the US from being a respectable nation now?
The US needs:
-Universal single payer healthcare
-A more progressive tax system
-A smaller military budget
-High quality k-12 education for all kids
-High quality higher education that is affordable
-A union density of 50% or higher (card check, speedy elections, etc. could help this)
-Comprehensive bike lanes and light-rail for every major city
Alan, you probably could have guessed my answers. This ain't your first rodeo.
Ultra lite - you would enjoy watching Michael moore's newest film, "where to invade next". Your list summarizes his thoughts.
Ultralight
5-27-16, 8:48am
Ultra lite - you would enjoy watching Michael moore's newest film, "where to invade next". Your list summarizes his thoughts.
Mikey is a good dude. I enjoy much of his work.
The US needs:
-Universal single payer healthcare
-A more progressive tax system
-A smaller military budget
-High quality k-12 education for all kids
-High quality higher education that is affordable
-A union density of 50% or higher (card check, speedy elections, etc. could help this)
-Comprehensive bike lanes and light-rail for every major city
Alan, you probably could have guessed my answers. This ain't your first rodeo.So, the US would be a more respectable country if we increased governmental control over every aspect of our lives other than the one area the federal government has a constitutional duty to provide? Is that about right?
Ultralight
5-27-16, 9:01am
So, the US would be a more respectable country if we increased governmental control over every aspect of our lives other than the one area the federal government has a constitutional duty to provide? Is that about right?
I'd say that is nonsense.
Here is a key example for you to ponder.
You see universal single payer healthcare as the gubmint taking away your freedom to choose doctors, services, blah, blah, blah.
But I see it this way. If I did not have to worry about healthcare, I could be free to spend my brain power doing other things and I would not be chained to a job I despise because I need the health insurance.
So universal healthcare would make me more free.
Williamsmith
5-27-16, 9:05am
The US needs:
-Universal single payer healthcare
-A more progressive tax system
-A smaller military budget
-High quality k-12 education for all kids
-High quality higher education that is affordable
-A union density of 50% or higher (card check, speedy elections, etc. could help this)
-Comprehensive bike lanes and light-rail for every major city
Alan, you probably could have guessed my answers. This ain't your first rodeo.
You can't mix socialism with capitalism.....like the United States has done for the last well, since at least LBJ. It makes a horrible swill. Both are subject to corruption. But at least capitalism at its heart is about freedom and liberty. I believe in the capitalism model and so I think a single payer system is settling for something way less than we could have.
You can't speak of taxation without considering productivity. Our regulatory environment and our de industrialization based on the myth of climate control is holding back our productivity. So we are suppose to be satisfied with less as more.
A smaller military budget just just requires we stop policing the entire globe. Perhaps we can then stop pretending we have the worlds greatest military and transition back to .....nobody screws with us.
Education - here is where we can make our biggest impact. There is nowhere to go but up.
As long as business can access cheap labor ....Unions are destined for the scrap heap. So business complains they can't afford union labor. Make business more profitable, make them stay in the country and shut off the undocumented labor.
For most of the rural country, bike lanes and rail transportation is a non issue. But get the middleclass back to work and This is easily done, as well as updating all the deteriorated bridges, tunnels and roadways.
I could see the attraction of living in a society that provides all the amenities of a well-run prison. I could even see how someone could believe that if only someone else would pay our bills for us, that it would unleash a mighty avalanche of creativity with all that extra free time.
On the other hand, there is a price to be paid; either in terms of a possibly stifling nanny state or the sort of cultural decline that may come from trying to eliminate the less pleasant aspects of competition. Look at the rioting in France over some proposed tweaks in the law that would make it slightly less difficult to terminate the worst parasites.
Is there some compromise position that would at least keep government out of our lives if not our pockets? The Swiss will be voting on June 5 on a proposal that would have the government provide every citizen with a small basic income. The more reckless, feckless and luckless get supported with some trimming to Nanny G's apron strings. It will be interesting to see what they decide.
Ultralight
5-27-16, 9:38am
I could see the attraction of living in a society that provides all the amenities of a well-run prison. I could even see how someone could believe that if only someone else would pay our bills for us, that it would unleash a mighty avalanche of creativity with all that extra free time.
On the other hand, there is a price to be paid; either in terms of a possibly stifling nanny state or the sort of cultural decline that may come from trying to eliminate the less pleasant aspects of competition. Look at the rioting in France over some proposed tweaks in the law that would make it slightly less difficult to terminate the worst parasites.
Is there some compromise position that would at least keep government out of our lives if not our pockets? The Swiss will be voting on June 5 on a proposal that would have the government provide every citizen with a small basic income. The more reckless, feckless and luckless get supported with some trimming to Nanny G's apron strings. It will be interesting to see what they decide.
Comparing Denmark to a well-run prison is hilariously hyperbolic.
Here is the thing: Lefties don't want to make everyone pay our bills. We want everyone to pay their share. Rich folks have a larger share to pay; that is all.
We know that a public light-rail system costs some in tax investment. We get that. We is the smart too. lol
Here is the thing: Lefties don't want to make everyone pay our bills. We want everyone to pay their share.
The critical issue is who enumerates "their share", both for the donors and the recipients. It's easy to agree that the sewage needs to be dealt with. It's harder to agree that everyone's entitled to free grad school.
I'd say that is nonsense.
Here is a key example for you to ponder.
You see universal single payer healthcare as the gubmint taking away your freedom to choose doctors, services, blah, blah, blah.
But I see it this way. If I did not have to worry about healthcare, I could be free to spend my brain power doing other things and I would not be chained to a job I despise because I need the health insurance.
So universal healthcare would make me more free.
I'd say the cost of your respect might very well out-weigh the benefit, but perhaps you value your respect disproportionately.
We know that a public light-rail system costs some in tax investment. We get that. We is the smart too. lol
If you city folk are so smart, why don't you pay for your own darned light rail?
Ultralight
5-27-16, 10:08am
If you city folk are so smart, why don't you pay for your own darned light rail?
Why don't you self-reliant country folk support yourselves without having to come to the city for some Costco!? ;)
Why don't you self-reliant country folk support yourselves without having to come to the city for some Costco!? ;)
Seems to me that most Costcos around here are built on cheap land in unincorporated areas, and not in the urban core. Light rail doesn't seem like it would do the job. Or allow easily transporting 3 months' supplies.
Tax yourselves if you want a shiny light rail system. My county currently pays state transportation taxes on every gallon of gas sold here, yet the state returns to us not one dollar to be spent in-county for our transport needs. It mostly seems to go to pay for Seattle's hobby of artisan mass transit.
gimmethesimplelife
5-27-16, 11:50am
I think America needs to hit rock bottom before it can really rise up and be a respectable nation on par with Denmark or Norway or even Canada. Trump is America's rock bottom.Interesting take. Do you really believe the ravages of a Trump Presidency would cause suffering people to unite against turbo charged global capitalism? And to care more for their neighbors and the welfare of their community? It's a beautiful thought but I find myself with little faith in it.....Rob
gimmethesimplelife
5-27-16, 11:52am
What, in your mind, prevents the US from being a respectable nation now?OMG do you really want me to count the many ways, Alan? LOL. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
5-27-16, 11:54am
The US needs:
-Universal single payer healthcare
-A more progressive tax system
-A smaller military budget
-High quality k-12 education for all kids
-High quality higher education that is affordable
-A union density of 50% or higher (card check, speedy elections, etc. could help this)
-Comprehensive bike lanes and light-rail for every major city
Alan, you probably could have guessed my answers. This ain't your first rodeo.Yes. I couldn't agree with you more. Especially about health care and mass transit. Rob
Ultralight
5-27-16, 11:58am
Interesting take. Do you really believe the ravages of a Trump Presidency would cause suffering people to unite against turbo charged global capitalism? And to care more for their neighbors and the welfare of their community? It's a beautiful thought but I find myself with little faith in it.....Rob
It'll be a bumpy 4 years, but it could lead to something amazing -- like tons of lefties in Congress and Elizabeth Warren as president.
gimmethesimplelife
5-27-16, 12:03pm
I'd say that is nonsense.
Here is a key example for you to ponder.
You see universal single payer healthcare as the gubmint taking away your freedom to choose doctors, services, blah, blah, blah.
But I see it this way. If I did not have to worry about healthcare, I could be free to spend my brain power doing other things and I would not be chained to a job I despise because I need the health insurance.
So universal healthcare would make me more free.So so so so True!!! One major reason I am completely disengaged from America is the after effects of all the years of constant fear of what happens if I get sick? I do have insurance now ( who knows for how long if Trump gets in?) and I'm finding that having insurance is not enough to wipe the slate clean and start over with America. There's just too much damage from the long term fear this citizenship causes in the lower social classes. I'm not ungrateful for the insurance, please don't get me wrong. I'm just worn to a crisp by the fear this citizenship causes it's less well off and I've found that just having insurance does not magically make the damage of long term fear go away. Better to have it than not, though. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
5-27-16, 12:09pm
[QUOTE=gimmethesimplelife;242593]So so so so True!!! One major reason I am completely disengaged from America is the after effects of all the years of constant fear of what happens if I get sick? I do have insurance now ( who knows for how long if Trump gets in?) and I'm finding that having insurance is not enough to wipe the slate clean and start over with America. There's just too much damage from the long term fear this citizenship causes in the lower social classes. I'm not ungrateful for the insurance, please don't get me wrong. I'm just worn to a crisp by the fear this citizenship causes it's less well off and I've found that just having insurance does not magically make the damage of long term fear go away. Better to have it than not, though. Rob
Came back to add that this is why accessing the Mexican border is so important to me. When I cross that border for medical/dental/optical I am empowering myself against a political and economic system that overall has not worked well for me and that has caused me a great deal of fear.....namely so those at the top could become yet more wealthy. I can't see living in the United States without the safety valve of Mexico.....Rob
catherine
5-27-16, 12:19pm
You would think that Republicans would love to break out of the employer-based insurance model for two reasons: If we had a single-payer government-run system, a) businesses wouldn't have to provide it, saving them tons of money and to UA's point, it would empower potential entrepreneurs to break free of the golden handcuffs of employment. Tying insurance to employment must definitely stifle innovation.
Ultralight
5-27-16, 12:31pm
You would think that Republicans would love to break out of the employer-based insurance model for two reasons: If we had a single-payer government-run system, a) businesses wouldn't have to provide it, saving them tons of money and to UA's point, it would empower potential entrepreneurs to break free of the golden handcuffs of employment. Tying insurance to employment must definitely stifle innovation.
Here is the thing:
1. Repubs DO NOT want the American public to realize how great something like universal healthcare is. Then Americans might want to do other things collectively via the gubmint. Repubs want people to have to pay them and their corporations jacked up amounts for all kinds of stuff.
2. Repubs don't want people to actually start new successful businesses. They prefer to suppress competition. This is what a corporate oligarchy does. It is contrary to the GOP rhetoric but look into the actual policies and they always favor huge, established businesses.
You would think that Republicans would love to break out of the employer-based insurance model for two reasons: If we had a single-payer government-run system, a) businesses wouldn't have to provide it, saving them tons of money and to UA's point, it would empower potential entrepreneurs to break free of the golden handcuffs of employment. Tying insurance to employment must definitely stifle innovation.
Would some employers like to be free of the ACA employer mandate? Sure. Others might wish to continue providing health coverage to offer a competitive compensation package, although the ACA "cadillac tax" penalizes an "overly generous" offering.
I'm skeptical that a single payer system would occasion a small business renaissance. All the taxes to pay for it would need to come from somewhere.
Ultralight
5-27-16, 12:37pm
I'm skeptical that a single payer system would occasion a small business renaissance. All the taxes to pay for it would need to come from somewhere.
Uh... huge corporations and the mega-wealthy. It could level the playing field for the small businesses. :)
Teacher Terry
5-27-16, 12:39pm
UL: I 100% agree with the list of things we need as a country. I have traveled outside the country and many countries are much worse then ours and some as good. In Poland the jobs are not plentiful at all and the cost of living in comparison to income is high. While they do have great social benefits they do have a lower level of living. IN Italy the people appeared to be more prosperous. I really value being a US citizen but think that we can make things even better with some positive changes.
Uh... huge corporations and the mega-wealthy. It could level the playing field for the small businesses. :)
But are there enough of them available to cover everyone else's health care?
Ultralight
5-27-16, 12:46pm
The GOPers act like universal healthcare and light-rail and affordable education will bring about doomsday. But it is so obvious that many other developed nations have this stuff and have had it for generations yet...no doomsday!
Ultralight
5-27-16, 12:49pm
But are there enough of them available to cover everyone else's health care?
Yes!
Came back to add that this is why accessing the Mexican border is so important to me. When I cross that border for medical/dental/optical I am empowering myself against a political and economic system that overall has not worked well for me and that has caused me a great deal of fear.....namely so those at the top could become yet more wealthy. I can't see living in the United States without the safety valve of Mexico.....Rob
Sorry Rob, I may have lost track what with all the changes in your life this past year or so, but as I recall your neighbors pay for your health care now don't they? It that's still the case, isn't that the opposite of 'empowering yourself'?
Teacher Terry
5-27-16, 1:22pm
alan, we all know his neighbors aren't paying for his health care and that it is income based. Universal healthcare like Medicare for everyone would solve this problem. If all the countries in Europe can afford this so can we. For starters we can stop policing the world and spend the $ on our own people.
Ultralight
5-27-16, 1:23pm
Sorry Rob, I may have lost track what with all the changes in your life this past year or so, but as I recall your neighbors pay for your health care now don't they? It that's still the case, isn't that the opposite of 'empowering yourself'?
Wait... how did he get his neighbors to pay his healthcare?
alan, we all know his neighbors aren't paying for his health care and that it is income based.
Do we? I distinctly remember questioning Rob's assertion that his medical insurance through Arizona's Expanded Medicaid system was 'free'.
Ultralight
5-27-16, 1:32pm
Do we? I distinctly remember questioning Rob's assertion that his medical insurance through Arizona's Expanded Medicaid system was 'free'.
I am shocked AZ expanded Medicaid. Holy cow.
Ultralight
5-27-16, 1:38pm
Somewhat unrelated:
I am glad feisty Alan is back!
gimmethesimplelife
5-27-16, 1:38pm
Here's a shocker for one and all. I have been off the Medicaid rolls for a month and a half now and am on an ObamaCare plan. Hence the need for access to the Mexican border due to deductibles and Co pays being high. I could quit one of my jobs and go back on Medicaid but this is not what I am about.....I prefer to work as much as I can and offshore my medical. At least by offshoring my medical I'm part of a solution and not the problem. Rob
Ultralight
5-27-16, 1:39pm
Here's a shocker for one and all. I have been off the Medicaid rolls for a month and a half now and am on an ObamaCare plan. Hence the need for access to the Mexican border due to deductibles and Co pays being high. I could quit one of my jobs and go back on Medicaid but this is not what I am about.....I prefer to work as much as I can and offshore my medical. At least by offshoring my medical I'm part if a solution and not the problem. Rob
How did you get on Medicaid in the first place? I have not idea how that works and I cannot believe AZ would go along with it.
gimmethesimplelife
5-27-16, 1:41pm
I am shocked AZ expanded Medicaid. Holy cow.It was a stunner, yes, and I have a great deal of respect for finger wagging former Republican governor Jan Brewer for going against her party to get this passed. For all her faults, the woman's got some class and decency regardless. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
5-27-16, 1:43pm
How did you get on Medicaid in the first place? I have not idea how that works and I cannot believe AZ would go along with it.Arizona expanded Medicaid and I made under the qualifying income for some time. After expansion it was a hassle due to some nightmare clerical errors I posted about here but eventually I did get on Medicaid. Rob
Ultralight
5-27-16, 1:44pm
I wonder if OH expanded Medicaid.
gimmethesimplelife
5-27-16, 1:46pm
I wonder if OH expanded Medicaid.I believe Kasich moved to expand it but Alan would know better than I do on this one I think. Rob
Teacher Terry
5-27-16, 1:47pm
Rob, congrats for working enough not to need it. However, I am glad that the safety net is there for people that do. I had a good friend that always made decent $ go through a set of financial challenges and his income dropped to 19K/year for 2 years (self-employed). He got it too when he needed it. Now he is back on his feet and does not need it.
I wonder if OH expanded Medicaid.
Yes, about 3 years ago. It was in all the papers.
Teacher Terry
5-27-16, 1:55pm
I posted earlier in this thread about my good friends that lost everything even with insurance. But yeah that lazy bum of a friend of mine that served in Vietnam and was severely wounded in battle got to be buried for free in a military cemetery and when his wife goes for 400. I know many of you will think what a waste of taxpayer $! Seriously if you know any veterans they and their spouse can be buried or their cremated remains interned as a free benefit. They will also do a free service and a free headstone or plaque. They do not need to serve in wartime but just have a honorable discharge.
Ultralight
5-27-16, 1:55pm
Yes, about 3 years ago. It was in all the papers.
Cool! My new viewing is rather hit and miss.
I posted earlier in this thread about my good friends that lost everything even with insurance. But yeah that lazy bum of a friend of mine that served in Vietnam and was severely wounded in battle got to be buried for free in a military cemetery and when his wife goes for 400. I know many of you will think what a waste of taxpayer $! Seriously if you know any veterans they and their spouse can be buried or their cremated remains interned as a free benefit. They will also do a free service and a free headstone or plaque. They do not need to serve in wartime but just have a honorable discharge.
Good to know. DH was in the Marines in the 70s and has yet to claim any benefits.
gimmethesimplelife
5-27-16, 1:57pm
Rob, congrats for working enough not to need it. However, I am glad that the safety net is there for people that do. I had a good friend that always made decent $ go through a set of financial challenges and his income dropped to 19K/year for 2 years (self-employed). He got it too when he needed it. Now he is back on his feet and does not need it.Thank You, TT. It took me a long time to find an Employment situation in Phoenix in which I would break the Medicaid qualification income limit but I finally did it. My mother in law used her connections to help me get a part time morning front desk position at a hotel and this coupled with working at night on call for banquets and selling on Ebay and half.com pushed me over the limit. I'm no leech...I prefer to stay over the limit and offshore all my non life and death medical to Mexico where it realistically belongs due to this economic climate. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
5-27-16, 1:59pm
alan, we all know his neighbors aren't paying for his health care and that it is income based. Universal healthcare like Medicare for everyone would solve this problem. If all the countries in Europe can afford this so can we. For starters we can stop policing the world and spend the $ on our own people.I couldn't agree more or say it any better myself. Rob
Teacher Terry
5-27-16, 2:02pm
Catherine you need to find the veterans cemetery where you want to be and then you sent them a form you can find online and a copy of your DH's discharge papers. Then you will be approved for a spot for both of you. If you move and want to be in a different one you just let them know. This is such a deal because here a plot costs thousands of dollars, etc.
alan, we all know his neighbors aren't paying for his health care and that it is income based. Universal healthcare like Medicare for everyone would solve this problem. If all the countries in Europe can afford this so can we. For starters we can stop policing the world and spend the $ on our own people.
agree 100% it is a shame how many people in my age group 55-65 in TN are doing without any kind of healthcare.
Ultralight
5-27-16, 4:26pm
agree 100% it is a shame how many people in my age group 55-65 in TN are doing without any kind of healthcare.
I used to live in Alabama. There was an old saying there.
"If boss-man don't take care of me then the good lord will."
gimmethesimplelife
5-27-16, 4:50pm
I used to live in Alabama. There was an old saying there.
"If boss-man don't take care of me then the good lord will."If that's not a valid reason to give up on the United States - this kind of thinking/accepting the deficiencies of US citizenship without question - I don't know what is. I feel very blessed that I've never thought like that. Rob
iris lilies
5-27-16, 5:18pm
Here is the thing:
1. Repubs DO NOT want the American public to realize how great something like universal healthcare is. Then Americans might want to do other things collectively via the gubmint. Repubs want people to have to pay them and their corporations jacked up amounts for all kinds of stuff.
2. Repubs don't want people to actually start new successful businesses. They prefer to suppress competition. This is what a corporate oligarchy does. It is contrary to the GOP rhetoric but look into the actual policies and they always favor huge, established businesses.
These opinions are kind of silly. But you are entitled to them.
Ultralight
5-27-16, 5:20pm
These opinions are kind of silly. But you are entitled to them.
You are entitled to think they are opinions.
I used to live in Alabama. There was an old saying there.
"If boss-man don't take care of me then the good lord will."
If that's not a valid reason to give up on the United States - this kind of thinking/accepting the deficiencies of US citizenship without question - I don't know what is. I feel very blessed that I've never thought like that. Rob
Sounds suspiciously like "If Daddy Government doesn't take care of me then Mexico will."
gimmethesimplelife
5-27-16, 6:03pm
Sounds suspiciously like "If Daddy Government doesn't take care of me then Mexico will."Health care is much less expensive in Mexico, Alan. Case in point, in 2012 I had an ultrasound done at the Hospital Almader in Mexicali -can highly recommend this hospital BTW - the cost - USD $57.50. Equipment modern and hospital cleaner than US hospitals I' ve been in/seen. Would it not be a human rights violation to the millions of Americans locked in relentless nightmare struggle to not be loyal to Mexico and it's health care? The implication seems to be that I accept the role of victim. No can do. No country is worth that. Gratefully I'm far from the only person out there who sees this issue this way. Rob
Health care is much less expensive in Mexico, Alan. Case in point, in 2012 I had an ultrasound done at the Hospital Almader in Mexicali -can highly recommend this hospital BTW - the cost - USD $57.50. Equipment modern and hospital cleaner than US hospitals I' ve been in/seen. Would it not be a human rights violation to the millions of Americans locked in relentless nightmare struggle to not be loyal to Mexico and it's health care? The implication seems to be that I accept the role of victim. No can do. No country is worth that. Gratefully I'm far from the only person out there who sees this issue this way. Rob
Rob, most of Mexico is a third world country. It's nice that you can live in a first world country and outsource your health care to the much cheaper third world, but give it a break dude. Choose one or the other and be happy.
gimmethesimplelife
5-27-16, 7:41pm
Rob, most of Mexico is a third world country. It's nice that you can live in a first world country and outsource your health care to the much cheaper third world, but give it a break dude. Choose one or the other and be happy.Alan, where I'm completely lost with your reply? I have no sense that you grasp the economic necessity of offshoring health care to Mexico. To read your post one could be lead to believe this was a choice.....and not necessity. So I'll make it clear. In the country I hold a passport to this is no choice. That's just how it is now. Of course my loyalties and my rhetoric reflect this reality. Rob
Alan, where I'm completely lost with your reply? I have no sense that you grasp the economic necessity of offshoring health care to Mexico. To read your post one could be lead to believe this was a choice.....and not necessity. So I'll make it clear. In the country I hold a passport to this is no choice. That's just how it is now. Of course my loyalties and my rhetoric reflect this reality. RobRob, I understand your frustration about the high cost of first world medical care, where I have a problem relating is the fact that you've spent the last several years receiving 'free' medical care, provided by the citizens of Arizona and the rest of the United States and now those same people are subsidizing your more conventional insurance to make it affordable for you.
You have nearly 3000 posts on these forums and I would guess at least half of those, although probably more, regard your displeasure with this country and your desire to receive more of what you've already enjoyed these past few years. Something tells me that the only way you'll ever achieve peace is to either accept the fact that your country is taking care of you and be grateful for it, or if that is asking too much, relocating to another country might be your only other option. It would do you good to make a choice.
Williamsmith
5-27-16, 8:59pm
Apparently, many American businesses appreciate the financial benefits of Mexico. American dollars seem to go a long way. Rob is doing what any good capitalist would.
gimmethesimplelife
5-28-16, 12:22pm
Apparently, many American businesses appreciate the financial benefits of Mexico. American dollars seem to go a long way. Rob is doing what any good capitalist would.Funny you should put it this way. I went to my 30th high school reunion over a year ago and I ran into some moneyed people I hadn't seen in years. I'm in touch with one of them who finds my political views fascinating. This woman pointed out to me that fleeing to Mexico for health and dental care is extreme capitalism at work......no different from Wall Street forcing a company to offshore to boost short term profits.
I didn't agree as I believe health care is a basic human right (I was 9 when I realized this) but.......this person from my past has a point. There is some joy for me in crossing the border for this - it's so human and empowering to do so. And it is capitalism at work in the sense that my health care dollars are going towards the best deal which America for many reasons can not and will not offer me.
So.....I guess my crossing the border is very capitalistic in a way......but I still see this as accessing basic human rights. Certainly I have no loyalty to the economic terrorism that is American health care - it's only common sense that someone in my position will offshore under these economic conditions. If that makes me capitalistic, so be it. I laugh all the way to the credit union with the money I've saved and the high quality of care. Rob
Interesting, too, that apparently some U.S. health care plans allow, and even encourage, "medical tourism." If your knee replacement is cheaper outside the U.S., they will also pay for the travel costs and still come out ahead cost-wise.
And as a fellow Arizonan I'm glad to see my taxes being put to good use for those who need it.
Teacher Terry
5-28-16, 1:53pm
Many people from border states get their health care in Mexico. I had a friend that went to Thailand for 2 weeks for dental work. INcluding plane ticket etc she spent 16k on something that would have cost 33k here. I really thought about doing that when I needed 33k dental care recently but decided that if things went wrong it might be impossible to get recourse in another country.
My uncle was going to mexico for hisa prescription drugs decades ago because they were cheaper over the counter than they were inCalifornia. This not anything new.
iris lilies
5-28-16, 5:17pm
My uncle was going to mexico for hisa prescription drugs decades ago because they were cheaper over the counter than they were inCalifornia. This not anything new.
I'm so glad he was able to be human and empowering back in the day.
gimmethesimplelife
5-28-16, 7:14pm
I'm so glad he was able to be human and empowering back in the day.Thank You, IL. I would change the word to empowered instead though. Rob
I imagine for my uncle it was just a rational decision on how to spend his money efficiently. He already loved going to Mexico because he enjoyed traveling around and meeting people and he felt that Mexicans were generally a friendly, cool group of people overall. Being able to save a buck or two was just a bonus.
So.....I guess my crossing the border is very capitalistic in a way......but I still see this as accessing basic human rights. Certainly I have no loyalty to the economic terrorism that is American health care - it's only common sense that someone in my position will offshore under these economic conditions. If that makes me capitalistic, so be it. I laugh all the way to the credit union with the money I've saved and the high quality of care. Rob
Of course you're a capitalist, and not just "in a way". You off-shore some services to reduce costs and increase your net worth. You're no less a part of globalization, ethically and practically, than any corporate CEO doing the same thing. You don't need to absolve yourself with talk about "economic terrorism" or "basic human rights".
gimmethesimplelife
5-29-16, 11:19am
Of course you're a capitalist, and not just "in a way". You off-shore some services to reduce costs and increase your net worth. You're no less a part of globalization, ethically and practically, than any corporate CEO doing the same thing. You don't need to absolve yourself with talk about "economic terrorism" or "basic human rights".If only I were as well off as your post seems to assume? Crossing the border for health care has nothing to do with increasing my net worth.....I am off Medicaid and on ObamaCare now and to afford health care America forces me at economic gunpoint to flee to Mexico to access health care. I'm certainly not the only one either.
As to basic human rights - I believe access to health care is a basic human right....One that is not affordable for many in the US. Of cource I'm going to see crossing the border and accessing Mexican health care as a vehicle towards meeting basic human rights. And yes, America has sunk to where this is a sane, logical, common sense reply. Price me out of access to health care, why wouldn't I be completely disengaged from America? Though to be honest if I were ever middle class I'd still cross the border for health care. Too much distrust for too many years.....it's just so much easier and saner to offshore to Mexico, and I'm glad to see more better dressed US citizens across the border these days who have reached similar conclusions.
But for me, crossing that border will always be about accessing basic human rights and now that I have high Co pays and deductibles, of course I will see American health care as economic terrorism. What sane person who has comparison shopped their citizenship would not see US health care in this way? Rob
If only I were as well off as your post seems to assume? Crossing the border for health care has nothing to do with increasing my net worth.....I am off Medicaid and on ObamaCare now and to afford health care America forces me at economic gunpoint to flee to Mexico to access health care. I'm certainly not the only one either.
Whenever they say it's not about the money, it is. You exploited cost differences between two markets and "laughed all the way to the credit union". Any profit-maximizing corporation would do the same. You don't need to dress up the decision with aggrieved rhetoric about the horror of life in America.
gimmethesimplelife
5-29-16, 12:05pm
Whenever they say it's not about the money, it is. You exploited cost differences between two markets and "laughed all the way to the credit union". Any profit-maximizing corporation would do the same. You don't need to dress up the decision with aggrieved rhetoric about the horror of life in America.It is about the money in the sense that I can't afford the copays and deductibles in the US. Morally, ethically and yes financially I have no choice but to cross the border. At one point in my life I resented being forced to cross the border for health care as I understood that in America I didn't make the grade....that health care was not a right like in any other first world country, and that America deemed me not worth health care. Now I'm so disengaged from this country that if I'm not on Medicaid, I'm afraid to access US health care even if I could afford it. I deserve much better. Thankfully much better is not hard to find in Mexico and thankfully I'm only three hours away from the border. Rob
It is about the money in the sense that I can't afford the copays and deductibles in the US. Morally, ethically and yes financially I have no choice but to cross the border. At one point in my life I resented being forced to cross the border for health care as I understood that in America I didn't make the grade....that health care was not a right like in any other first world country, and that America deemed me not worth health care. Now I'm so disengaged from this country that if I'm not on Medicaid, I'm afraid to access US health care even if I could afford it. I deserve much better. Thankfully much better is not hard to find in Mexico and thankfully I'm only three hours away from the border. RobYou keep referring to that word, 'right'. As Inigo Montoya might say, "I don't think it means what you think it means."
You use it to refer to an obligation you wish the government to impose on individuals to benefit you, that is not a 'right'.
frugal-one
5-29-16, 2:48pm
Rob, I understand your frustration about the high cost of first world medical care, where I have a problem relating is the fact that you've spent the last several years receiving 'free' medical care, provided by the citizens of Arizona and the rest of the United States and now those same people are subsidizing your more conventional insurance to make it affordable for you.
You have nearly 3000 posts on these forums and I would guess at least half of those, although probably more, regard your displeasure with this country and your desire to receive more of what you've already enjoyed these past few years. Something tells me that the only way you'll ever achieve peace is to either accept the fact that your country is taking care of you and be grateful for it, or if that is asking too much, relocating to another country might be your only other option. It would do you good to make a choice.
Take this post to heart, Rob. We are all sick of your b******g!
iris lilies
5-29-16, 3:26pm
It is about the money in the sense that I can't afford the copays and deductibles in the US. Morally, ethically and yes financially I have no choice but to cross the border. At one point in my life I resented being forced to cross the border for health care as I understood that in America I didn't make the grade....that health care was not a right like in any other first world country, and that America deemed me not worth health care. Now I'm so disengaged from this country that if I'm not on Medicaid, I'm afraid to access US health care even if I could afford it. I deserve much better. Thankfully much better is not hard to find in Mexico and thankfully I'm only three hours away from the border. Rob
Gosh I have really had to remind a lot of people lately that those deductibles were determined by Nanny G t be affordable by you. It is the Presidents program, and he says you can afford them.
Just like when President Sanders pushes through universal health care by uncnstitutonal regulation (because Congress wont vote cor it) and our taxes go up but we will get so much more and we will be able to afford it.
Federal taxes have been dropped and dropped again over the years; I'd say they should be returned to an effective level. Maybe pre-Reagan level.
Teacher Terry
5-29-16, 3:36pm
Totally agree Jane. Here our schools are lacking funds and people won't vote for more taxes for the kids. But they made a state amendment in 2008 to keep property taxes low so retirees won't be taxed out of their homes. It sounds good in theory but we own a home valued at 250k yet our yearly property taxes are only 700/year.
gimmethesimplelife
5-29-16, 3:38pm
Take this post to heart, Rob. We are all sick of your b******g!Mmmmm.....fair enough. Then why don't we as a society have the courage to look at the legitimate reasons for this b******g? Instead of forcing our citizens to offshore their health care at economic gun point? Rob
Take this post to heart, Rob. We are all sick of your b******g!
What's this, the royal we? Speak for yourself.
A lot of people here have their particular hobby horses; use your ignore feature.
gimmethesimplelife
5-29-16, 3:46pm
Gosh I have really had to remind a lot of people lately that those deductibles were determined by Nanny G t be affordable by you. It is the Presidents program, and he says you can afford them.
Just like when President Sanders pushes through universal health care by uncnstitutonal regulation (because Congress wont vote cor it) and our taxes go up but we will get so much more and we will be able to afford it.OK IL....Ding! You win. You have a point here. The deductibles and Co pays are not affordable and we were indeed told they would be. Solutions? Medical tourism or immigrating out.....can you come up with anything else that minimizes vulnerability to American health care any better? Rob
gimmethesimplelife
5-29-16, 3:48pm
[QUOTE=JaneV2.0;242803]What's this, the royal we? Speak for yourself.
A lot of people here have their particular hobby horses; use your ignore feature.[/QUOTE. Access to affordable health care I'm sure you have all seen is rather a big deal to me. I agree with your comment Jane and I Thank You. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
5-29-16, 3:55pm
You keep referring to that word, 'right'. As Inigo Montoya might say, "I don't think it means what you think it means."
You use it to refer to an obligation you wish the government to impose on individuals to benefit you, that is not a 'right'.I believe access to affordable health care is a basic human right, yes. Supporting me in this belief is the fact that such access is a feature included in the citizenship of every other developed nation on this planet. My question is.....why the expectation that America should not be held accountable for this by it's citizens? I just don't get the free pass America has been given on this one for years. Rob
iris lilies
5-29-16, 4:05pm
OK IL....Ding! You win. You have a point here. The deductibles and Co pays are not affordable and we were indeed told they would be. Solutions? Medical tourism or immigrating out.....can you come up with anything else that minimizes vulnerability to American health care any better? Rob
Sure. Change your perception of "affordable" and get with this program of the President. Stop eating a few times a week and build your emergency fund to $6,000. Or wait--heres a thought-- forgo trips to Austria and other European countries.
Not to pick on you exclusively, I simply Do. Not. Believe . People....when they say they "cant afford" something when I see obvious spending in other areas. Their activities n belie their words.
Like I said, you are not the only person I know (two sets of friends) who claim they cant afford anything like an ACA premium or deductions YET they have vacation properties and multiple houses and brand new kitchens and bathrooms and etc.
so,yeah, sorry. I dont believe you.
gimmethesimplelife
5-29-16, 4:18pm
[QUOTE=iris lilies;242811]Sure. Change your perception of "affordable" and get with this program of the President. Stop eating a few times a week and build your emergency fund to $6,000. Or wait--heres a thought-- forgo trips to Austria and other European countries.
Not to pick on you exclusively, I simply Do. Not. Believe . People....when they say they "cant afford" something when I see obvious spending in other areas. Their activities n belie their words.
Like I said, you are not the only person I know (two sets of friends) who claim they cant afford anything like an ACA premium or deductions YET they have vacations condos outof the country (not a timeshare!) and multile houses and brand new kitchens and batheooms and etc.
Iso,yeah, sorry. I dont believe you.[/QUOTE The trip to Europe? My Mom paid most of it with money she inherited back in 2012/2013. I used the remainder of the money I inherited to pay for my part of the trip. I now have $600 of this money left which is sitting in a Roth IRA. I am out of debt thanks to this windfall but I also am pulling in around 18K a year.....True story. Wanna send over an accountant/auditor? It could be argued that I should not have travelled.....not willing to die before seeing the Homeland one last time. If that's unacceptable......what AM I doing in this country, come to think of it? As a side note, it's very nice to be done with credit cards and have them out of my life though......very much a blessing. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
5-29-16, 4:22pm
Beyond what I posted above, does anyone else see insanity in my being in a subsidized ACA plan I can't afford to use but keep to avoid a fine and I still have to cross the border for health care? Anyone else think this is crazy? Rob
Teacher Terry
5-29-16, 4:29pm
When hearing about the ACA I never thought it was going to come with such high deductibles that people would not be able to afford to use it. I don't think others thought that either.
gimmethesimplelife
5-29-16, 4:34pm
When hearing about the ACA I never thought it was going to come with such high deductibles that people would not be able to afford to use it. I don't think others thought that either.Same here.....and I still agree with IL's long ago post that there would be winners and losers with the ACA. She was right in my book. I am a two time winner. Once for qualifying for Medicaid and now for only living three hours from Mexico. Rob
When hearing about the ACA I never thought it was going to come with such high deductibles that people would not be able to afford to use it. I don't think others thought that either.Maybe it would have helped if the Democrats read it before they signed it.
Beyond what I posted above, does anyone else see insanity in my being in a subsidized ACA plan I can't afford to use but keep to avoid a fine and I still have to cross the border for health care? Anyone else think this is crazy? RobYes, it is insane. I don't understand why you still support the same people who forced it upon you.
Plus, as a word of caution, this is what happens when you allow the government to assume control over your life.
Teacher Terry
5-29-16, 6:02pm
We should model it after what other countries have successfully done.
gimmethesimplelife
5-29-16, 6:18pm
We should model it after what other countries have successfully done.So true.....so very very true. Rob
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