View Full Version : Protesting is so good for the soul.....
ApatheticNoMore
5-8-17, 2:42pm
There is not always a cost to society of any individual getting buzzed etc. That is silly. Or anyone having a drink on the weekend for pleasure is some risk, but of course that's silly. But there IS always a risk with readily availability (of alcohol lets say) that SOME PERCENTAGE of the population will not be able to handle it and will be susceptible to abuse (saying drinking and driving) and/or addiction and/or other risks. But prohibition doesn't seem to do all that much to change that and adds problems of it's own.
I'm in agreement with Alan and Jane. If someone wants to make himself stupid and unhealthy with drugs, he should be free to do so. If they are decriminalized, that would at least take some of the profit out of it, and reduce some portion of drug-related crime. People committing crimes to obtain the wherewithal to purchase drugs should receive the same sentence as more lucid criminals. Recognizing the disease aspects of addiction and offering rehab programs for those willing to undergo them should be in addition to rather than in lieu of prison terms. Alan makes an important point about individual responsibility.
I'm fine with someone choosing not "working themselves to death for our corporate masters". I believe in the YMOYL concept of achieving independence as a small-scale capitalist. A productive and meaningful life can take many forms; perhaps some I myself might view as ridiculous or parasitic. I'm not fine with paying to support their choice, although I recognize that some people need help through no choice or fault of their own.
There is always a cost to society if people get addled and buzzed etc., on whatever the drug Someone has to clean up the mess, legal, medical or a combo. If I come across someone who had OD's, I have to decide to intervene or not, call 911 or walk away, use the antidote if available or not. Drugs are very self-centred weapons against society and I mean weapons. There is always a cost. Abuse has a cost. How it is handled is a very different issue.
[QUOTE=JaneV2.0;268721]I agree with Alan re drugs. Get as buzzed, addled, high as you like--just don't let your decision adversely affect me--or society--and we'll do fine.
I'd love dabble in DMT if it were legal. Ditto psilyocybin and others.
I don't agree--if I choose to get tipsy on my occasional glass of brandy at home, what is the cost? If I choose to try to medicate my joimt pain with CBD, I suppose I "cheat" Pharma out of whatever their exorbitant drugs cost. I'd be willing to bet the costs of prescribed opioids and other medications--initial and subsequent--are sky-high, though, so I take your point.
gimmethesimplelife
5-8-17, 3:37pm
It just seems like playground bullying to me, and not in the least entertaining, or an "interesting dynamic." Unless the "mean girls" is an interesting dynamic.Interesting viewpoint, Jane. What I am about to post may be off topic a bit, please forgive me, you'all, but your Mean Girls reference? This brought back to mind for me my first season cocktailing and bartending at the El Tovar Hotel at the South Rim of the Grand Canyon back in 2004. I had a gay roommate in the employee housing who idolized Regina George, the witchy character of the Mean Girls and the leader of the pack. Turns out IRL he did everything he could to emulate this character's behavior, too. Overall a nasty personality suffering from low self esteem.
I personally believe those who very vocally disagree with pretty much anything I post? With one exception I believe they mean what they post and are not in it for the snark. Call me naive (?), but I can cut them a little slack as overall I do believe they are not male equivalents of Regina George. (With one exception I won't name.....but there's always one in every barrell, no? Why should this board be any different?) Rob
I've always felt that relentlessly hypercritical individuals were sad, sorry little people. I've known a few. It's hard to feel charitable toward them, but I try.
Not a test, simply curious.........
i just picked a point that falls near the center and often demonstrates logical inconsistency and wondered what your stance was.........
I'm suddenly remembering an old Sesame Street song, "One of these things is not like the other"
Seems as though I am not understanding the difference between being what some call 'addled' vs "no longer able to be responsible for using whatever the drug of choice". Recreational use is one thing that one can start and stop whenever but 'addled' to me means more like loss of control over one's actions and ability to choose. Obviously others see it differently.;)
MacBook dictionary:
1 unable to think clearly; confused: this might just be my addled brain playing tricks | [in combination] : his persona as a drug-addled hell-raiser.
I imagine one could be addled by whatever licit or illicit substance from time to time without adversely affecting society at large. Heaven knows I was drunk more than a couple of times in my long-ago youth. Worst-case scenario, I made an ass of myself.
Chicken lady
5-8-17, 6:05pm
A test to me implies that my intent was to evaluate your response.
while I admit to interest in both what it would be and wether your reasons would be logically consistent or logically inconsistent, I had no intention of passing judgement on any of that. More a getting to know you than evaluating you.
if you mean "test" in the sense that one would test a substance in an attempt to determine It's properties, than yes, it was a test. I can make both logically consistent and logically inconsistent arguments for or against those freedoms based on a variety of belief systems I do not consider extreme, so it seemed like a non confrontational question. Although I didn't work very hard to make the language of the question neutral, so it tells a bit about me as wel I suppose, which seems fair.
as does the fact that I chose drugs - I would see abortion as another "test" of logical approach, but generally far more extreme on the role of government spectrum,
as does the fact that I chose drugs - I would see abortion as another "test" of logical approach, but generally far more extreme on the role of government spectrum,
The difficulty with "logic", of course, is that you can have a flawlessly consistent chain of reasoning, but if your initial premises are flawed, your conclusion may not be all that useful.
Chicken lady
5-8-17, 7:00pm
True Bae.
also, strike the abortion example, I rethought it and it wasn't really in the category I was looking for.
Killing people maybe. Pretty much anybody who agrees that we should have a government would agree that it should regulate your right to kill people - how much and under what circumstances may vary, but even those mostly opposed to government support some kind of regulation in that area.
Apparently Mexican citizens are being granted asylum in the US because of discrimination against their sexual identity in their nation of birth. Surprised there aren't more protests in Seattle at the Mexican consulate (2132 3rd Ave if you're in the neighborhood.).
http://kuow.org/post/she-was-tortured-being-gay-300-she-fled-seattle
ToomuchStuff
5-9-17, 2:27am
This section is the public policy section, aka politics, the most mean, nasty, bitter disagreement, believe what you will you can't change my mind topic that causes people to leave sites and tire of things. Best thing to do is stay out of it if your worried about getting feelings/:moon: hurt, because it will happen. (seen it multiple times, avoided this section for a LONG time as I do like other boards ability to only view it on an opt in basis, but not an option here) As this section became more prevalent, we have lost some members which is sad. But we have also lost members for getting advice, that they asked for, and didn't agree with, or getting away from the original goals of this site as it gets more "facebooky" for lack of a better word.
As I get older and the more :poop: I deal with, I am becoming more snarky in the way a late friend who was married to one of the Crickets was (lucky censored, died first), or the way a friend and his wife's relationship was (the carbon monoxide went off, I am going to take the kids and pets and get ice cream, you go lay down honey). I've grown up around that and a lot of bad stuff, and that is becoming a good way of dealing with it.
I know Rob got hurt (see the ouch post), and called him on it, as he continues to speak all inclusive of his zip code as their unelected (never seen proof he is allowed to speak for them) representative. (there is no one there that disagree's with him, you can't speak about them), double standard. He wants welfare to be paid to him, in another country, without the checks and balances that come with it. Wants universal income, without working and expects to be a moderator of the working section of the forum (double standard). Wants not to hear from others, when he disagrees, but expects everyone to listen to him (double standard). That he can easily solve as the only has to give up the moderator title, so he can use and be in ignored lists. Otherwise anything double standard can be reversed by mods/site admins. (generally on any forum, one mod can't ban someone, because they have had a bad day)
I don't see his logic as I only see him arguing emotionally. I deal with that in real life as well, example someone I know complaining that her friend only had a little to drink and yes her license was revoked, but she should be left alone, yet when a relative was killed by a drunk driver, something should be done.
If the rules are going to apply, then they apply equally.
iris lilies
5-9-17, 8:26am
Apparently Mexican citizens are being granted asylum in the US because of discrimination against their sexual identity in their nation of birth. Surprised there aren't more protests in Seattle at the Mexican consulate (2132 3rd Ave if you're in the neighborhood.).
http://kuow.org/post/she-was-tortured-being-gay-300-she-fled-seattle
The poor woman in that article was brutally tortured. She had a hysterectemy as a result. That seems worthy of protest to me, far more worthy than the air plane abuses.
gimmethesimplelife
5-9-17, 9:56am
I think it is great that Rob has found something to energize him and give his life meaning.
He likes Protesting and communing with neighbors in the 85006, and that is a good thing. I am sincere in that because I really am annoyed when healthy, first world people cannot seem to lead lives of purpose and contentment. I always wnder who they expect to be their mothers, to tell them what to do with their lives. We only get one life here, people!
That I think his purpose is misguided is of secondary importance although that wont keep me from arguing his logic.Thank You, IL.....there is so much to protest these days and it is such an experience of bonding with others and of liberation. I will definitely be protesting more in the future.....it's seems as if on a weekly basis if not more there is something new to protest. At least I can't fault America for not giving many reasons to protest.......that can not realistically be taken from this country in it's present form. Rob
I'm reminded of that scene from Rebel Without a Cause when the guy asks James Dean what he's rebelling against, and he responds "What have you got?"
I personally prefer action over activism in dealing with our issues, but it takes all kinds.
I personally prefer action over activism in dealing with our issues, but it takes all kinds.
Where exactly is the line between the two? For instance, if enough people protest the AHCA and it results in the republican majority being thrown out of both the house and senate next year is that not action?
iris lilies
5-9-17, 11:32am
Where exactly is the line between the two? For instance, if enough people protest the AHCA and it results in the republican majority being thrown out of both the house and senate next year is that not action?
People protesting dont do the throwing out of bums, people in the voting booth throw out the bums.
Be mindful of how many of the opposition are created when you (the generic you) take to the streets for your cause.
People protesting dont do the throwing out of bums, people in the voting booth throw out the bums.
Be mindful of how many of the opposition are created when you (the generic you) take to the streets for your cause.
That's my line of thinking as well. To me, it's the difference between stocking shelves at a food bank or building houses and gathering in a crowd to insist that somebody do something. It's the difference between serving your country in uniform or some pain-in-the-butt elected office or non-profit board and telling the people in the arena where they went wrong.
Both approaches have their place. I just feel more comfortable with the first one.
I also agree with you that the proper level of obnoxiousness can often make protest counterproductive to its goals.
i guess it depends on whether the protests get news coverage and whether that coverage sways other people's opinions.
Peaceful protest is just a way to publicly register concerns. Anyone who would "vote the bums in" because others turned out to demonstrate would undoubtedly have voted them in regardless.
Protest is just one way to be an activist, obviously. Most of us who protest also write letters, contribute to causes, make calls and go door to door, attend town hall meetings, etc.
United news of the day:
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/10/investing/united-continental-pr-stock-all-time-high/index.html?iid=hp-stack-dom
United news of the day:
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/10/investing/united-continental-pr-stock-all-time-high/index.html?iid=hp-stack-dom
So stock is at all time high. I guess investors are not worried about the protest from the 85006. So much for bankrupting the company.
So stock is at all time high. I guess investors are not worried about the protest from the 85006. So much for bankrupting the company.
Or the protests and outrage pushed them into crisis management and they happened to handle the crisis appropriately (ie. changing policies). If there had been no protest, what would have happened to their stock? Would it have risen because they mishandled the passenger?
Investors are looking for a return on their investment. United is not going under, people are going to continue to fly with them. I don't believe anyone thinks they handled it very well. As I said earlier, this will soon be forgotten as this was an isolated insident.
The majority of the people will be most interested in the cost of the flight than the carrier. And they will continue to accept being crammed into smaller seats and put up with more hassells as long as it's cheap. I hate to fly commercial these days, many don't even have first class seats anymore.
gimmethesimplelife
5-11-17, 8:25am
Something that is wonderful - and I believe most here would agree with me on this one point if nothing else - what the United Airlines Brand fiasco has done is to energize and motivate the travelling public to record and download any action an airline performs that is over the top....no excuses will work going forward, people will record, download, and let the court of public opinion roast a given brand. Couldn't happen to a more deserving industry, and my hope going forward is that such behavior spreads to all facets of public American life. As Martha Stewart used to say, It's A Good Thing. Rob
Couldn't happen to a more deserving industry, ...
Really?
Of all the industries engaged in troublesome acts in this county, the *airline* industry is the most deserving of being "roasted"???
Fascinating. Hey, did I tell you about the large xylene production facility the airline industry is opening up right in the middle of some very sensitive and irreplaceable tidal wetlands here? And the airline industry's plans to send hundreds of tanker ships full of the stuff through a National Monument, some of the most pristine and productive waters in the country? Without so much as a rescue tug on call to keep the tankers from running onto any of the hundreds of nearby reefs or rocks should they suffer mechanical issues, which would cause an environmental disaster that would make the Exxon-Valdez spill look tame.
I'll keep my smart-phone charged, so I can Youtube all the dead wildlife. That'll show those airlines.
Damn those airlines.
Really?
Of all the industries engaged in troublesome acts in this county, the *airline* industry is the most deserving of being "roasted"???
Fascinating. Hey, did I tell you about the large xylene production facility the airline industry is opening up right in the middle of some very sensitive and irreplaceable tidal wetlands here? And the airline industry's plans to send hundreds of tanker ships full of the stuff through a National Monument, some of the most pristine and productive waters in the country? Without so much as a rescue tug on call to keep the tankers from running onto any of the hundreds of nearby reefs or rocks should they suffer mechanical issues, which would cause an environmental disaster that would make the Exxon-Valdez spill look tame.
I'll keep my smart-phone charged, so I can Youtube all the dead wildlife. That'll show those airlines.
Damn those airlines.
When you say "here" I am assuming the PNW? I used to work at a screen printing shop in a suburb just outside of Seattle from the late 70's to mid 80's and handled xylene a lot. Also acetone and a whole host of other wonderful (not) chemicals
When you say "here" I am assuming the PNW? I used to work at a screen printing shop in a suburb just outside of Seattle from the late 70's to mid 80's and handled xylene a lot. Also acetone and a whole host of other wonderful (not) chemicals
Yes, the Tesoro facility in Anacortes. They'll be shipping through the Salish Sea, and anchoring a small fleet of the vessels in Anacortes. Should be lovely. Damn those airlines.
ToomuchStuff
5-12-17, 1:41am
Still waiting for the funding, for my "mandated" cell phone from a certain zip code.
Teacher Terry
5-12-17, 1:15pm
When I fly I shop by price. so when I go to KS that means I fly United. when I go to Chicago it usually means American. Non-stop is also important if I can get it.
gimmethesimplelife
5-12-17, 8:33pm
Still waiting for the funding, for my "mandated" cell phone from a certain zip code.If you are perchance referring to the 85006, I have no idea what you are talking about. Care to clarify? Rob
If you are perchance referring to the 85006, I have no idea what you are talking about. Care to clarify? Rob
I think they are referencing your suggestion that everyone should have a smartphone at the ready to record video whenever people are being wronged.
gimmethesimplelife
5-12-17, 8:39pm
I think they are referencing your suggestion that everyone should have a smartphone at the ready to record video whenever people are being wronged.Fair enough, Jp1. What threw me off were the words "mandated" and "funding" - I don't get how this ties into my zip code. What you have posted, however, not only do I agree with, but is along the lines of what I mean. Rob
So, you are a fan of unfunded mandates?
flowerseverywhere
5-12-17, 11:41pm
Fair enough, Jp1. What threw me off were the words "mandated" and "funding" - I don't get how this ties into my zip code. What you have posted, however, not only do I agree with, but is along the lines of what I mean. Rob
I think this is how Trump got elected. The idea that the government should give people healthcare, free phones, food and so on. Because there are many people who get up every morning, go to work to the best of their ability, pay the mortgage, pay taxes and so on. Yet they see people getting assistance with the very things they are struggling to provide for their family. Plus paying taxes. And watching their health insurance premiums increase, and good paying jobs disappear by going overseas or done by non union shops or illegals paid under the table.
As as they see their middle class life slip away, along comes someone who will "make America great again". Rallying against regulations, immigration that only makes the population browner, and even strong independent women who might want to control their reproductive cycle. The perfect storm.
I doubt most most of the posters here feel like those who have lost jobs, have an illness or left by a spouse should end up in the gutter. They might need some help to get on their feet. But I think the concept that tax paying Americans should pay for phones of better quality than I have as a tax payer, to record wrongs done by people who get up every day and try to maintain law and order. Of course there are a few bad apples, some people who have gone over the edge for one reason or another, but basically they do a job I would never have the guts to do.
It's all about perception and attitude. People who are abused in the hands of the police have a point. But if you do protest follow the letter of the law. And make sure what you are protesting is sensible and realistic.
Unless I missed it I don't think rob ever said that the gov't should pay for people's smart phones. Only that everyone should have one so that they can film wrongs.
And also, unless I missed it, Trump was the one promising to create trumpcare that was going to provide better coverage for way less money. Perhaps no one points this out because everyone knew that he was lying through his teeth when he made that promise so they didn't take it seriously.
And thanks, flowerseverywhere, for being the only person on this board honest enough to admit that trump's anti-immigrant stance was based on his supporters disliking of the skin color of the majority of our current immigrant population.
ToomuchStuff
5-13-17, 2:20am
If you are perchance referring to the 85006, I have no idea what you are talking about. Care to clarify? Rob
Really, a smartphone that is fully charged can be such an effective tool against what America has become that I'm of the opinion it should be mandatory that all adults have one on them at all times for self protection. Rob
Mandatory? As in, with force of law? As in, if you refuse to have one, armed agents of the state will eventually show up to drag you off, and will kill you if you resist sufficiently, as they inexorably move through their response force continuum? Nice! I love to see what sorts of things people are willing to kill others for... Or rather, the sorts of things they are willing to have their hired help kill for...
??? Bae, with all due respect, ???, how did you go from a mandatory smartphone to armed agents of the state, from zero to sixty in less than five seconds? Just trying to understand. Rob
Do you understand what happens when "mandatory" gets enforced against a non compliant person?
Do you understand your moral skin-in-the-game when you ask that something be made "mandatory" in our laws?
Unless I missed it I don't think rob ever said that the gov't should pay for people's smart phones. Only that everyone should have one so that they can film wrongs.
And also, unless I missed it, Trump was the one promising to create trumpcare that was going to provide better coverage for way less money. Perhaps no one points this out because everyone knew that he was lying through his teeth when he made that promise so they didn't take it seriously.
And thanks, flowerseverywhere, for being the only person on this board honest enough to admit that trump's anti-immigrant stance was based on his supporters disliking of the skin color of the majority of our current immigrant population.
Start with page 9, post #82, through post #99 on page 10. He is using language without a clue what it means. Mandatory means force of law, and there have been cases over it, because if it is mandated, then it also has to be paid for. My income would classify me as working class. (above poverty, below middle) Rob, incorrectly lists his social class in the same as economic class, as my "social class" would be in a vastly different category, then my income.
I am still waiting for him to come up with the money, to pay for myself having a smart phone. I still use a candy bar style phone, with no texting (blocked, even), that costs me around $60 to $100 a year on a heavy year. A smart phone is a luxury, to me, not a necessity.
flowerseverywhere
5-13-17, 7:03am
And also, unless I missed it, Trump was the one promising to create trumpcare that was going to provide better coverage for way less money. Perhaps no one points this out because everyone knew that he was lying through his teeth when he made that promise so they didn't take it seriously.
the rest of us knew how complicated it was and it was not going to happen. And as I believe Alan has pointed out it seems impossible without some rationing. And getting the insurance companies out of the mix. And the government contracting directly with drug companies so they can't increase the price of life saving medicine by 200% in a year.
For some fun morning reading here here is the Donald's 100 day contract with America to make America white again. I am even tempted to print out hats. Note how major money was going to be redirected at infrastructure. How is that going? I am not thinking the swamp has been drained very much, just different predators.
https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/_landings/contract/O-TRU-102316-Contractv02.pdf
...
And thanks, flowerseverywhere, for being the only person on this board honest enough to admit that trump's anti-immigrant stance was based on his supporters disliking of the skin color of the majority of our current immigrant population.
I agree--you only have to look at Steve Bannon and Jeff Sessions to figure that out. Even W Bush recently came out against the racism inherent in the current administration--without naming names. He, after all, famously has "brown" nieces and nephews. That Atlantic video pointing out that certain white male voters are apparently terrified of losing their grip on power to the scary "other" was telling, also.
the rest of us knew how complicated it was and it was not going to happen. And as I believe Alan has pointed out it seems impossible without some rationing. And getting the insurance companies out of the mix. And the government contracting directly with drug companies so they can't increase the price of life saving medicine by 200% in a year.
For some fun morning reading here here is the Donald's 100 day contract with America to make America white again. I am even tempted to print out hats. Note how major money was going to be redirected at infrastructure. How is that going? I am not thinking the swamp has been drained very much, just different predators.
https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/_landings/contract/O-TRU-102316-Contractv02.pdf
Yes, those of us in the "reality based community", to recall a quaint phrase from the more innocent times of the W administration, know that healthcare is complicated and expensive and that republicans don't give a flying fig about regular people beyond lying their asses off to them to get their votes so no good changes were going to happen. But I can't even tell you how many articles I've read where trump supporters are stunned at how they are now likely to be hurt by trumpcare. And we don't even really know what trumpcare is because trump is so unconcerned about this issue that his only goal is to pass a bill. Any bill. Regardless of the contents of it. He's such a good negotiator that without even worrying about the bill's contents he'll be able to claim that the new plan is the best plan. A very beautiful plan. Thankfully the likelihood of that happening is as small as his hands.
Start with page 9, post #82, through post #99 on page 10. He is using language without a clue what it means. Mandatory means force of law, and there have been cases over it, because if it is mandated, then it also has to be paid for. My income would classify me as working class. (above poverty, below middle) Rob, incorrectly lists his social class in the same as economic class, as my "social class" would be in a vastly different category, then my income.
I am still waiting for him to come up with the money, to pay for myself having a smart phone. I still use a candy bar style phone, with no texting (blocked, even), that costs me around $60 to $100 a year on a heavy year. A smart phone is a luxury, to me, not a necessity.
Exactly. Rob misused the word, and got beat up for it by a number of people. I don't recall him ever saying "yes, now that I understand the word mandatory better, I think the state should be buying everyone a smart phone."
Teacher Terry
5-13-17, 7:24pm
For all of you drooling over the free obama phone it is a cheap flip phone. YOur income must be very low to qualify. A good friend of mine at 57 had to retire from the state because of severe MS. She worked her whole life at low paying jobs and unfortunately for her only 11 years with the state. That gave her a whopping 900/month pension of which 500 went to pay for her health insurance. She had to wait till 62 to get SS. She did not qualify for disability SS because she retired from a state that did not pay in. I tried to get her low income housing, etc and was always rejected. Without that cheap, free phone she would have had no phone service. Luckily her sister died young and left her 60k which she used to supplement her income until 62. It was not accessible where she lived in a one room and bath so she was basically stuck home. By the time you are qualifying for free stuff your life is basically in the toilet so don't waste your time being envious. Ironically we finally got her into a decent, accessible apartment because she qualifies by having more $ . If you are too poor they don't let you in but if your income falls within guidelines you can get in and not have to pay full market rate which is really expensive where we live.
Thanks for telling your friend's story. And the "Obamaphone" hardly started with him. Basic telephone service has been available to the poorest among us at least since the sixties.
gimmethesimplelife
5-13-17, 9:57pm
Exactly. Rob misused the word, and got beat up for it by a number of people. I don't recall him ever saying "yes, now that I understand the word mandatory better, I think the state should be buying everyone a smart phone."There is no need for the state to buy anyone but the poorest of the poor a phone these days - a basic entry level smart phone can be yours for free for switching to Boost or Metro PCS, with low data plans including unlimited text and calls for $30 a month. This freebie cheapie smartphone may not be the best one out there but it is indeed good enough to take video to download in the event of filming wrongs. I'd even go so far to say in this rare case here the free market actually works! Is anyone on the floor after this statement? It is indeed a rare statement coming from me and I don't believe (mostly) in turbo-charged capitalism that we all suffer under currently but in this one isolated case, it works in the sense that almost anyone can afford an entry level smartphone with video capability sufficient to protect themselves from America. Rob
flowerseverywhere
5-13-17, 11:24pm
For all of you drooling over the free obama phone it is a cheap flip phone. YOur income must be very low to qualify. A good friend of mine at 57 had to retire from the state because of severe MS. She worked her whole life at low paying jobs and unfortunately for her only 11 years with the state. That gave her a whopping 900/month pension of which 500 went to pay for her health insurance. She had to wait till 62 to get SS. She did not qualify for disability SS because she retired from a state that did not pay in. I tried to get her low income housing, etc and was always rejected. Without that cheap, free phone she would have had no phone service. Luckily her sister died young and left her 60k which she used to supplement her income until 62. It was not accessible where she lived in a one room and bath so she was basically stuck home. By the time you are qualifying for free stuff your life is basically in the toilet so don't waste your time being envious. Ironically we finally got her into a decent, accessible apartment because she qualifies by having more $ . If you are too poor they don't let you in but if your income falls within guidelines you can get in and not have to pay full market rate which is really expensive where we live.
i know that but for many Trump voters their perception was they were working so hard but lowlifes, illegals and lazy people were living high on the hog on the backs of the middle class. Illegals were taking their jobs. Regulations closed the coal mines. Foreign aid robbed us of updating our infrastructure. And every candidate talks about government waste. I think that we are not drooling over others having free phones, but rather discussing some of the social issues that are confronting all of us.
Perception is 90% regardless of how it actually is.
ToomuchStuff
5-14-17, 12:15am
Exactly. Rob misused the word, and got beat up for it by a number of people. I don't recall him ever saying "yes, now that I understand the word mandatory better, I think the state should be buying everyone a smart phone."
So Rob understood the legal term mandated, and still chooses to tell people how to spend their money, and that is OK?
There is no need for the state to buy anyone but the poorest of the poor a phone these days - a basic entry level smart phone can be yours for free for switching to Boost or Metro PCS, with low data plans including unlimited text and calls for $30 a month. This freebie cheapie smartphone may not be the best one out there but it is indeed good enough to take video to download in the event of filming wrongs. I'd even go so far to say in this rare case here the free market actually works! Is anyone on the floor after this statement? It is indeed a rare statement coming from me and I don't believe (mostly) in turbo-charged capitalism that we all suffer under currently but in this one isolated case, it works in the sense that almost anyone can afford an entry level smartphone with video capability sufficient to protect themselves from America. Rob
Around these parts, when the "Obamaphone" thing happened they set up tents several places, including one of the closest gas stations to me. They were signing up everybody, that includes those whose income didn't qualify. Those signing them up, weren't getting in trouble, but those who signed up could later be charged with fraud. I saw no need to commit fraud.
The phones they provide are smart phones, and they cost more then mine.
Two months of that is what my year will cost me this year. That doesn't even count the other differences between them. You didn't like what or how United treated people, yet you have this love for an electronic phallus , that the more people play and stroke it, the more information they are providing to Google/Apple, whichever company provides the OS and connections. You choose no privacy and are happy to be a product to be marketed to?
You expect me to give up my privacy, that to me means the same as federal mandates to the state, I expect your funding of it!
There is no need for the state to buy anyone but the poorest of the poor a phone these days - a basic entry level smart phone can be yours for free for switching to Boost or Metro PCS, with low data plans including unlimited text and calls for $30 a month.
Check your privilege.
I live in a county that by some measures is often the poorest county in the state. $30/month of expense isn't doable for many folks. I've had people show up at meetings of our water and power and sewer system to seriously make their case that rate increases of $2-$5/month were going to be a problem for them. I've worked with our affordable housing organizations here, and helped people work their budgets. $30 may sound like chump change to you, but it isn't.
i know that but for many Trump voters their perception was they were working so hard but lowlifes, illegals and lazy people were living high on the hog on the backs of the middle class. Illegals were taking their jobs. Regulations closed the coal mines. Foreign aid robbed us of updating our infrastructure. And every candidate talks about government waste. I think that we are not drooling over others having free phones, but rather discussing some of the social issues that are confronting all of us.
Perception is 90% regardless of how it actually is.
Oddly, they never point fingers at the high-rolling grifters at the top, who are scamming us out of billions with their tax avoidance and subsidies.
Oddly, they never point fingers at the high-rolling grifters at the top, who are scamming us out of billions with their tax avoidance and subsidies.
Actually you have to question whether Obamaphones were a freebie for the poor, or just another scheme to shove money into the pockets of the wealthy. It's interesting so much flak was dedicated to who got phones, but very little over who got the money for the phones - or how much:
The richest man in the world, Mexican billionaire Carlos Slim, is making millions in profits from a government program that supplies poor Americans with free cell phones.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/26/technology/mobile/tracfone-free-phones/
ApatheticNoMore
5-14-17, 12:05pm
Most people do seem to have a smart phone here (take public transit it's what everyone is doing on it, staring at their phones). But those who don't have a smart phone often have some kind of internet connected device (a pc, a laptop etc.) with internet connectivity at home which amounts to the same thing for most practical purposes (say you need the internet to look for a job which many do - either will suffice). Yes there are those without any internet connectivity that those who study social problems like to talk about a lot, and I don't doubt they exist, but also smart phones are as common as dirt, and not much of a wealth marker.
Teacher Terry
5-14-17, 3:18pm
Bae, is right that many people can't afford 30/month. We had to supply income proof to get the phone and I think that more important then the phone being free is that there was no monthly charge. It was about 6 years ago so not sure if this is correct or not.
Bae, is right that many people can't afford 30/month.
My community just engaged in a large fund-raising effort to fund the increase in size of our library. Much of the new space will be used for facilities to allow those in our community who have no access to the Internet/cell phones/computing to be able to engage The Bold New Digital World. Believe it or not, there are people walking around here, who have jobs, who somehow have found housing with the low wages and high housing prices, who do *not* have cell phones, Internet, or nice Macbook laptops.
My brother-in-law had two of those phones, he sold them both and then was refused a third. Boy was he pissed at having to buy minutes from Trac-Fone.
Teacher Terry
5-14-17, 3:38pm
BIL sounds like a low life-Ugh!
BIL sounds like a low life-Ugh!
Yes, in many ways, but mostly just an opportunist. He'll vote for anyone who gives him what he wants.
I don't think my phone has video. I can take pictures though. I just wanted the cheapest thing that I could make a phone call with.
I can legally carry something more persuasive if I felt threatened though. And I could access it much faster than looking for the proper buttons on a phone.
I can legally carry something more persuasive if I felt threatened though. And I could access it much faster than looking for the proper buttons on a phone.
Access, while moving and using, in < 1 second. Not for the phone, for some older technology. Phone takes forever, by the time the screen unlock happens, all the notifications pop up to irritate me, and then flipping through to the right app, while wondering if I need to take my glasses off to see the little text/buttons. Other technology, just look for the red dot....
gimmethesimplelife
5-14-17, 7:09pm
I don't know about other states, let me start off by saying that much. I do know that here in Arizona, when I was first on Medicaid, I was automatically eligible for a cheap flip phone with 250 minutes just for having a Medicaid card - same also held true at the time if I presented a food stamp card - bingo, free phone for a year with 250 minutes a month, which lasted for one full year before needing to renew by showing a Medicaid card or a food stamp card. Here in Arizona it's very easy to get a free phone provided you are receiving some sort of assistance.
Also about the $30 a month - I don't deny that this is hard to come up with for many people. I know people in the 85006 who donate plasma to afford their free smartphone with the $30 plan. Their general thought is that it's worth it to donate plasma to protect themselves from American police via smartphone video. Rob
The petty scams of the poor pale in comparison to the massive wealth transfers of the rich.
I know people in the 85006 who donate plasma to afford their free smartphone with the $30 plan. Their general thought is that it's worth it to donate plasma to protect themselves from American police via smartphone video. Rob
That sounds like a great plot for a movie!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv9MESOwQUg
gimmethesimplelife
5-14-17, 10:36pm
That sounds like a great plot for a movie!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv9MESOwQUgPerhaps. Unfortunately it's the reality of US citizenship for many people today. Rob
Perhaps. Unfortunately it's the reality of US citizenship for many people today. Rob
Could you put a number on it? Of the people who sell their blood to pay for their smartphones?
Most of the people in my life I've known who sold their blood did it to pay for food, or rent, or various forms of entertainment. Never seen someone donate blood for their data plan before. Still, at the rates AT&T charges...
If your neighbors are selling blood to pay for phones to protect themselves from the police, while also living in a high crime area. Why aren't you convincing them to flee south. I'm sure Mexico would welcome them with open arms.
gimmethesimplelife
5-16-17, 10:06am
If your neighbors are selling blood to pay for phones to protect themselves from the police, while also living in a high crime area. Why aren't you convincing them to flee south. I'm sure Mexico would welcome them with open arms.Many do go back to Mexico once they have worked here and saved some buckage - it's cheaper for them there and they can get out of working quicker this way. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
5-16-17, 10:09am
Could you put a number on it? Of the people who sell their blood to pay for their smartphones?
Most of the people in my life I've known who sold their blood did it to pay for food, or rent, or various forms of entertainment. Never seen someone donate blood for their data plan before. Still, at the rates AT&T charges...People are struggling in the 85006 Bae.....people in the 85006 like anywhere do what they have to do to get to the next day. But donating plasma is a relatively easy way to pull in $250 or so a month - I know as I used to do it and still do from time to time. Some of my neighbors donate as a side income stream to save money or for specific bills, and I know several people who donate twice a month just for their $30 cell phone plan with smartphone with video capability, for reasons I don't really need to go into yet AGAIN at this point. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
5-17-17, 9:26pm
I just had a thought - with all the latest Trump scandals, if the process of Impeachment does (or does not) move along, certainly there will be some intense protests coming up! So there's something to be grateful for right there. Rob
Teacher Terry
5-18-17, 4:14pm
I think the one thing that this disaster has created which is positive is that people are waking up and getting involved politically. They can no longer stand to just watch what is happening in our country. I know people that have never been to a protest in their lives that are doing so now.
I think American political humor (and maybe American humor in general) has been in decline since at least the turn of the century. All the TV clowns except maybe Fallon seem to have joined "the resistance". I feel like if I'm not being scolded, I'm being lectured to by a substitute social studies teacher.
The turn of which century? Seems like political humor has always been laced with negative sarcasm that may have it's own constructive purpose, but does get tiring after a while.
“The political and commercial morals of the United States are not merely food for laughter, they are an entire banquet.” Mark Twain
I think the one thing that this disaster has created which is positive is that people are waking up and getting involved politically. They can no longer stand to just watch what is happening in our country. I know people that have never been to a protest in their lives that are doing so now.
I visited an old friend's FB page to see her joyfully describing her attendance at the local Women's March--"My first one in 67 years!" Honestly if I had to guess, I would have guessed her to be a Republican, but a couple of anti-Trump memes displayed on her wall made me wonder. If there's anything redeeming about this deplorable getting elected, it's that he's really galvanized the apathetic among us.
ApatheticNoMore
5-18-17, 5:45pm
A protest is not even getting involved politically though. Not really. I read "more people getting involved politically" and I think going to city council meetings, running for office, etc.. And I think: good but serious time commitment to actually be involved that way (and probably as motivated by Sanders as it is by Trump at this point - it's kind of central to the message people took from the Sanders campaign if any). So being a serious time commitment clearly difficult for many. In many ways protests are less being involved than voting is probably (but does depend on how much one's vote even matters in any given election).
I'm not saying to only care about local politics or something, just protests are not bad, but for the most part seem to be pretty seriously ineffective.
But the people who have never been to a protest in their lives. Well, I'm not sure I'd wear that as any sort of badge of pride (except if they are young, then they are just inexperienced). But otherwise haven't they even wanted anything to change before now, ever been outraged by any U.S. policies until now when there is so much that is wrong and continues to be wrong to a lesser or greater degree (it does vary depending on who is running things), no matter who is in charge? And they have never wanted to try that mode of engagement before? I've been to protests before etc.. Don't think they are all that effective by themselves though.
Teacher Terry
5-18-17, 6:08pm
It is not just going to protests but people are showing up in droves to town hall meetings, making phone calls, emails etc. So many are showing up to town hall meetings that the room is not big enough to hold everyone. People are getting involved in many different ways.
gimmethesimplelife
5-19-17, 11:03am
I find it interesting that he has been evidently raised as a victim. Is this the way those that end up in the 85006 feel. I remember at a very young age being taught that if I wanted something I needed to plan and work toward that goal. If things didn't work out it was generally from poor planing or lack of effort.
If if I wanted nice things I shouldn't expect others to give them to me.I didn't "End Up" in the 85006 - I am here to some degree by choice. Due to my background and my take on so many issues I have discussed here at great length - I really would not fit into a "nicer" area - I know too much of the wrong things for this to work at this late date. 85006 it is for me for the time being. Rob
I didn't "End Up" in the 85006 - I am here to some degree by choice. Due to my background and my take on so many issues I have discussed here at great length - I really would not fit into a "nicer" area - I know too much of the wrong things for this to work at this late date. 85006 it is for me for the time being. Rob
https://smcvt.edu/-/media/images/academics/library/hairshirt1.ashx?la=en&hash=7DB98D5258A4E114A52B9102D3E992777A914DF3
catherine
5-19-17, 11:53am
The last time I flew commercial just reaffirmed my decision. It was cramped and I had to listen to kids screaming for over a hour. The trip back the guy in front of me was so big he should have had two seats. He was half way into the isle and of coarse the Seat back was all the way back close to me.
Most airline travel today is generally just moving people as cheaply as possible.
United should have just continued to raise the offers for volunteers until someone agreed to accept. Or arranged other transportation for their employees.
im going to the airport today and fly somewhere for lunch. Maybe the Keys, or St. Pete. I'll decide later.
I love flying, commercial or otherwise. I don't see it as hassle. I see it as a chance to "rise above" the cares of the world and be totally in my own little world for the duration of the trip. I feel that way whether there's a kid sitting next to me, or a large person sitting next to me in the middle seat, or I'm in the middle seat between a kid and a large person.
I've often thought that maybe I would have enjoyed being a pilot, so I envy you that, dmc.
I think with nostalgia about the many times I've flown to Sky Harbor, Rob. I even think back nostalgically about the fact that it was a PHX-EWR segment when I had my first emergency landing and we had to circle back to PHX. I have to admit, I was pretty scared, and I had bought my daughter a silver and turquoise ring at Old Town Scottsdale for her 12th birthday, so I put my business card in the bag with the ring and tied up the bag so that if we crashed and someone found the ring in the bag, they'd get it to my daughter.
I was far less nervous for my second emergency landing.
Rob, I don't know what it's like to work for United. I honor your right to protest bad behavior as an employee or a consumer. Personally, I direct my protests to companies like Monsanto, but that's because I really do think their motives are totally nefarious.
gimmethesimplelife
6-19-17, 9:04pm
What about the city of Chicago? Shouldn't you also be demanding the mayor be thrown out, arrested, and sued? And let's not forget about his pension.
United handled this badly, but this is will soon be forgotten by the majority of travelers.
I am a little curious about your protest party's. Do the 85006 look at protesting as a social function? Do they have a committe to chose what the next protest is going to be for? Do they sell T shirts proclaiming their zip code?Actually, your t-shirt idea has already been brought up at a neighborhood meeting - and shelved as a few folks said they'd be wary of a t-shirt displaying the 85006 zip code on it as police are visual predators with few if any checks or balances and can get away with literal murder with a slap on the wrist or less - so naturally, some people are afraid of giving the police any visuals as they are afraid of an illegal and unconstitutional attack. Some friendly advice? If you can't understand a word I have just typed/posted, express some gratitude to some force or power or deity greater than yourself that you are so lucky as to not understand these words. There are very few (if any) residents of the 85006 that can afford such luxury as to not understand these words. Also, there are many other US zip codes in which the residents can not afford the luxury of not understanding these words - certainly this is not limited to my small corner of Central Phoenix Arizona. Rob
Apparently United's customer service has gotten better. At least they didn't drag the kid off the plane and injure him in the process.
http://www.kitv.com/story/35811481/united-takes-seat-away-from-2-year-old-resells-ticket?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook_KITV
Teacher Terry
7-5-17, 1:49pm
That was really terrible!
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