View Full Version : 2020 Presidential Candidates
happystuff
7-23-20, 2:50pm
Now, if I were a homeowner, and a mob was throwing flaming bottles at my home, and lighting me up with what appear to be laser sighting devices, I'd be tempted to react strongly....
While I have yet to be in the exact situation, I like to think that I would leave. A building can be rebuilt, a human life - when dead - is dead. I hope I never put a material object above a life - mine or anyone else's.
While I have yet to be in the exact situation, I like to think that I would leave. A building can be rebuilt, a human life - when dead - is dead. I hope I never put a material object above a life - mine or anyone else's.
Well, I don't see a particularly safe way of leaving when the house is threatened by a mob throwing flaming bottles and pointing lasers.
I also value my own life, and my life's energy, and am unwilling to have my home burned to the ground. If people chose to attempt to destroy my home, well, they made their own bed.
happystuff
7-23-20, 2:59pm
Well, I don't see a particularly safe way of leaving when the house is threatened by a mob throwing flaming bottles and pointing lasers.
I also value my own life, and my life's energy, and am unwilling to have my home burned to the ground. If people chose to attempt to destroy my home, well, they made their own bed.
I understand. And, if and how you choose to defend is the bed of your own making as well.
I suppose if you ignore the multiple videos floating around the internet showing exactly that, and that pretty much all the people who get kidnapped get released without ever being told why they were picked up or having any charges brought against them then, sure, it's not happening.
If you can’t trust videos floating around the internet, what can you trust?
Maybe at one time that was true but now look what is in the White House. Times have radically changed. This is how Hitler came to power. People did not believe or want to see what he was doing. The good news about all this ... is some Republicans are starting to speak up!
When the IRS was targeting enemies of the previous administration and the FBI was obtaining FISA warrants under highly questionable pretexts, I don’t think things were so radically different.
Teacher Terry
7-23-20, 3:18pm
If someone was trying to set my house on fire I take the dogs and leave. I had a friend in Kansas whose husband kept a loaded shotgun in the closet and she was taught to use it. Their kids were grown and no grandchildren. One night a guy broke in and all the while telling her what he was going to do with her once her husband was dead. She got the gun and killed him. She was so traumatized that she never allowed another gun in the house although it probably saved both their lives.
If someone was trying to set my house on fire I take the dogs and leave. I had a friend in Kansas whose husband kept a loaded shotgun in the closet and she was taught to use it. Their kids were grown and no grandchildren. One night a guy broke in and all the while telling her what he was going to do with her once her husband was dead. She got the gun and killed him. She was so traumatized that she never allowed another gun in the house although it probably saved both their lives.
Thank goodness she had it when she needed it.
I understand at least a few of those fires were ignited by flash-bang grenades.
I would be interested to see what the political leanings of violent participants in these demonstrations are.
Of course, I'm not a neutral party, but I'd guess they would be anarchists (who show up for any and all demonstrations), agents provocateurs (usually righties), and maybe a left-leaning radical or two. The vast, vast majority of the crowd (as reported by media and my friends) are peaceful and passionate. The goons appearance draws anarchists and agents provocateurs. They should go back where they came from.
I understand at least a few of those fires were ignited by flash-bang grenades.
I would be interested to see what the political leanings of violent participants in these demonstrations are.
Of course, I'm not a neutral party, but I'd guess they would be anarchists (who show up for any and all demonstrations), agents provocateurs (usually righties), and maybe a left-leaning radical or two. The vast, vast majority of the crowd (as reported by media and my friends) are peaceful and passionate. The goons appearance draws anarchists and agents provocateurs. They should go back where they came from.
That’s the problem, isn’t it? Everybody wants to “guess” that the bad actors are predominantly to be found among the people they don’t like; and even that their very presence constitutes a provocation.
That’s the problem, isn’t it? Everybody wants to “guess” that the bad actors are predominantly to be found among the people they don’t like; and even that their very presence constitutes a provocation.
Nah.
I'm pretty sure the bad actors are distributed across the whole spectrum. It's all part of the show.
I see that Trump asked himself, "What if they threw a convention and no one came?"
I see that Trump asked himself, "What if they threw a convention and no one came?"
It looks like both parties are scaling their rituals of anointing candidates to much smaller affairs, both to appear COVID-conscious and to reduce the possibility of destruction by mostly peaceful demonstrators.
That’s the problem, isn’t it? Everybody wants to “guess” that the bad actors are predominantly to be found among the people they don’t like; and even that their very presence constitutes a provocation.
I suppose one could research the arrest records. The rightist white national Proud Boys are known troublemakers in Portland, and have been arrested for assault, etc.
Nah.
I'm pretty sure the bad actors are distributed across the whole spectrum. It's all part of the show.
But that kind of thinking implies that our issues can’t be resolved through denunciation, cancellation, shouting down and violence.
Here's a story on a group I haven't seen mentioned here yet:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/meet-the-youth-liberation-front-the-militant-group-promoting-a-marathon-of-angry-portland-protests/
Here's a story on a group I haven't seen mentioned here yet:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/meet-the-youth-liberation-front-the-militant-group-promoting-a-marathon-of-angry-portland-protests/
I don't have access to the Times, but a quick Google suggests it's an anarchist group.
Here's a story on a group I haven't seen mentioned here yet:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/meet-the-youth-liberation-front-the-militant-group-promoting-a-marathon-of-angry-portland-protests/
There seems to be a proliferation of activist groups primarily active in social media rather than the more mundane plane of physical existence. The basements of America are seething with discontent.
It would be foolish to discount the power of social media. Trump-and thousands of Russian disinformation specialists-certainly don't.
But that kind of thinking implies that our issues can’t be resolved through denunciation, cancellation, shouting down and violence.
Well, I’m pretty sure properly targeted violence would be quite effective on some levels. The devil is in the details though.
There seems to be a proliferation of activist groups primarily active in social media rather than the more mundane plane of physical existence. The basements of America are seething with discontent.
Social media is the medium by which they organize their actions.
frugal-one
7-25-20, 3:27pm
Well, I’m pretty sure properly targeted violence would be quite effective on some levels. The devil is in the details though.
Targeted violence by trump's goons that he is sending to cities where they are not wanted. A dictator's credo to incite more violence.
"Federal authorities are swooping in and do whatever they want to do without any cooperation and coordination with state and local authorities is extraordinary outside the context of civil war"..... Michael Dorf, a professional of constitutional law at Cornell University is quoted as saying.
And apparently they have abandoned their original supposed mission of protecting federal buildings and are now just generally terrorizing people in Portland.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/25/us/portland-federal-legal-jurisdiction-courts.html
Trump may think this faux ‘law and order’ shtick is a great reelection strategy but other than his hardcore supporters I don’t think many people are going to be impressed as it comes to a city near them.
Former Security Secretary Tom Ridge sums up any rational observer's take on Trump's storm troopers:
...Ridge stressed that the Department of Homeland Security "was established to protect America from the ever-present threat of global terrorism. It was not established to be the President's personal militia. It would be a cold day in hell before I would give consent to a unilateral, uninvited intervention into one of my cities," he continued. (CNN/Sirius)
But it's certainly mobilizing Portland's middle class "Wall of Moms," dads, and vets, from what I see in my inbox.
Trump may think this faux ‘law and order’ shtick is a great reelection strategy but other than his hardcore supporters I don’t think many people are going to be impressed as it comes to a city near them.
Which comes first, federal goons or violent anarchists? Which side do you think most Democrats support?
frugal-one
7-25-20, 4:32pm
Which comes first, federal goons or violent anarchists? Which side do you think most Democrats support?
I don't think it matters your political affiliation. trump can be included in either tribulation.
Which comes first, federal goons or violent anarchists?
Wait, aren't those the same thing? Unmarked "police" shooting bystanders in the face, ignoring the laws* and our Constitution which allows for peaceful protests. That sounds like a violent anarchist.
* Atty General Barr making new pronouncements to allow this type of activity doesn't count as a "law" imo.
Wait, aren't those the same thing? Unmarked "police" shooting bystanders in the face, ignoring the laws* and our Constitution which allows for peaceful protests. Have you seen the damage from these "peaceful protests", the fires, graffiti and destruction, not to mention possibly 3 blind police officers and another attacked with a hammer? If that is the new definition of peaceful protests I'd hate to see a riot.
frugal-one
7-25-20, 5:09pm
Have you seen the damage from these "peaceful protests", the fires, graffiti and destruction, not to mention possibly 3 blind police officers and another attacked with a hammer? If that is the new definition of peaceful protests I'd hate to see a riot.
The damage was done, in many cases, by white supremists looking to cause havoc. The majority of people were looking to protest peacefully. It is another way to divide the country... don't ya know?
The damage was done, in many cases, by white supremists looking to cause havoc.
Oh I suspect there may be some of that, but havoc seems to be the norm for all involved.
frugal-one
7-25-20, 5:22pm
Oh I suspect there may be some of that, but havoc seems to be the norm for all involved.
That is not true. There were peaceful protests here. After the majority of the people left... the skinheads and those wanting to cause trouble came out and did damage. I think most people just want to be heard. There obviously is a divisive faction wanting to taint the whole concept of the protests.
That is not true. There were peaceful protests here. After the majority of the people left... the skinheads and those wanting to cause trouble came out and did damage. I think most people just want to be heard. There obviously is a divisive faction wanting to taint the whole concept of the protests.Yes, I should have differentiated between the real peaceful protesters and the peaceful protesters wreaking havoc and then being pulled out of the otherwise peaceful crowds. I am surprised though at the sheer number of skinheads and white supremacists on the streets each night, they appear to be a surprisingly diverse group.
frugal-one
7-25-20, 8:04pm
Yes, I should have differentiated between the real peaceful protesters and the peaceful protesters wreaking havoc and then being pulled out of the otherwise peaceful crowds. I am surprised though at the sheer number of skinheads and white supremacists on the streets each night, they appear to be a surprisingly diverse group.
You are looking the other way. Although that is not surprising.
You are looking the other way. Although that is not surprising.
He made that clear when he called all the protestors ‘peaceful protestors’ as he denigrated half of them. In his mind the mothers and fathers are just as bad as the actual late night folks out to cause harm.
He’s also apparently cool with the fed thugs doing far more than defending federal buildings. But that’s not a surprise either. His constitutional desires are situational. Like most conservatives.
He made that clear when he called all the protestors ‘peaceful protestors’ as he denigrated half of them. In his mind the mothers and fathers are just as bad as the actual late night folks out to cause harm.
He’s also apparently cool with the fed thugs doing far more than defending federal buildings. But that’s not a surprise either. His constitutional desires are situational. Like most conservatives.
It's a lot simpler than that, I simply have no tolerance for people engaging in bad behavior and little patience with their enablers. I think if the elected officials in any jurisdiction enable bad actors in their destruction, the owners and inhabitants of the property have every right to push back. It distresses me that people who might otherwise agree won't in some cases because of their disdain for the owners and inhabitants.
People are clearly seeing what they want to see in identifying villains in a chaotic situation. It’s the kind of thinking that is making Nick Sandmann a wealthy young man as he settles his suits with some of our more hysterical media corporations.
I'm getting "intel" from friends that Trump's goons are ranging far afield from the Justice Center. Apparently last night they were assembling on NE 33rd Ave, a street where I lived as a child, on their way to a nearby park. Nobody seems to know why. This is maybe a mile and a half from downtown Portland, in the heart of a residential area. Meanwhile, my source says the Drudge Report is disseminating tales of scary "Antifa cells" and other drivel. The following article sums up the situation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/25/us/portland-federal-legal-jurisdiction-courts.html
I'm getting "intel" from friends that Trump's goons are ranging far afield from the Justice Center. Apparently last night they were assembling on NE 33rd Ave, a street where I lived as a child, on their way to a nearby park. Nobody seems to know why. This is maybe a mile and a half from downtown Portland, in the heart of a residential area. Meanwhile, my source says the Drudge Report is disseminating tales of scary "Antifa cells" and other drivel. The following article sums up the situation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/25/us/portland-federal-legal-jurisdiction-courts.html
Maybe Drudge is relying on “intel from friends” (aka gossip) for his claims as well.
I'm not calling myself a journalist.
Also, the NYT article backs up what I've written.
frugal-one
7-26-20, 12:34pm
He made that clear when he called all the protestors ‘peaceful protestors’ as he denigrated half of them. In his mind the mothers and fathers are just as bad as the actual late night folks out to cause harm.
He’s also apparently cool with the fed thugs doing far more than defending federal buildings. But that’s not a surprise either. His constitutional desires are situational. Like most conservatives.
Now Chicago and other places. This is obviously not about defending federal buildings but to incite more violence. Or to make another diversion...
Now Chicago and other places. This is obviously not about defending federal buildings but to incite more violence. Or to make another diversion...
Bingo. As a friend commented in an email this morning--"They're working hard every day to subvert democracy, and hurting people in the process."
iris lilies
7-26-20, 12:53pm
Now Chicago and other places. This is obviously not about defending federal buildings but to incite more violence. Or to make another diversion...
Well, he does like stirring things up. That has worked for him in the past, I don’t know if it’s gonna work for this fall election.
People like me who do not like drama at high political levels are tired of it.
Well, he does like stirring things up. That has worked for him in the past, I don’t know if it’s gonna work for this fall election.
People like me who do not like drama at high political levels are tired of it.
I think that translates to "Everyone sane is tired of it."
I think that translates to "Everyone sane is tired of it."And yet we're two months into nightly violence with no end in sight in Portland and a few other places. Weird huh?
frugal-one
7-26-20, 3:36pm
And yet we're two months into nightly violence with no end in sight in Portland and a few other places. Weird huh?
As the politicians in those cities attest.... bringing in the federal goons is causing more tension and trouble. THEY ARE NOT WANTED THERE. trump has local government dictate on COVID-19, schools, etc but sticks his ugly nose in now where it does not belong. We should not have a federal military for the country. The national guard should be called to handle at the dictation of the local authority. The way it is currently trump does not even collaborate with local police. Weird, huh?
iris lilies
7-26-20, 3:54pm
And yet we're two months into nightly violence with no end in sight in Portland and a few other places. Weird huh?
Well, I’m sick and tired of the rioters too.
We should not have a federal military for the country.I hate to break it to you but our nation's military is Federal, and that's probably the only reason we've never been invaded. Well, that and the 2nd Amendment plus the fact that a National Defense was one of the very few reasons to have a Federal government.
The national guard should be called to handle at the dictation of the local authority. I wonder why that hasn't been done? Not really, I think I know why.
frugal-one
7-26-20, 5:19pm
Well, he does like stirring things up. That has worked for him in the past, I don’t know if it’s gonna work for this fall election.
People like me who do not like drama at high political levels are tired of it.
You are not alone.
frugal-one
7-26-20, 5:20pm
I hate to break it to you but our nation's military is Federal, and that's probably the only reason we've never been invaded. Well, that and the 2nd Amendment plus the fact that a National Defense was one of the very few reasons to have a Federal government.
I wonder why that hasn't been done? Not really, I think I know why.
So do I. trump wants a diversion.
frugal-one
7-26-20, 5:22pm
I hate to break it to you but our nation's military is Federal, and that's probably the only reason we've never been invaded. Well, that and the 2nd Amendment plus the fact that a National Defense was one of the very few reasons to have a Federal government.
I wonder why that hasn't been done? Not really, I think I know why.
The federal military is not meant to be used against our own citizens but as a national defense. As you indicated, that is why we've never been invaded.
The federal military is not meant to be used against our own citizens but as a national defense.Are you implying that the US Military has been activated against citizens?
Are you implying that the US Military has been activated against citizens?
Considering that the goons aren’t wearing their actual uniforms, who knows.
The US military absolutely has been activated against US citizens. It started when George Washington himself rode out with troops to suppress the Whiskey Rebellion.
The federal military is not meant to be used against our own citizens but as a national defense. As you indicated, that is why we've never been invaded.
War of 1812
Brownsville, Texas (1846)
Bandit War, Texas (1915)
Battle of Columbus, NM (1916)
frugal-one
7-26-20, 9:14pm
Considering that the goons aren’t wearing their actual uniforms, who knows.
This a valid point but do see the Insurrection Act of 1807 is being used in this case. I, obviously, do not agree and believe trump is abusing his authority. By his own admission, he is targeting states that have Democratic governors and using federal agents that are not summoned by the state or trained in he situation he is placing them in. The premise is that they are protecting federal buildings. This does not hold true for the states that trump is now stating he will send more goons.
Thanks ... I learned a lot.
frugal-one
7-26-20, 9:24pm
[QUOTE=Alan;358843]Are you implying that the US Military has been activated against citizens?
Looks that way.
The United States Armed Forces[10] are the military forces of the United States. It consists of the Army, Marine Corps, Navy, Air Force, Space Force, and Coast Guard.[11][12] The president of the United States is the commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces and forms military policy with the Department of Defense (DoD) and Department of Homeland Security (DHS), both federal executive departments, acting as the principal organs by which military policy is carried out
I do not have police background ...
I was a sworn federal agent.
I was in law enforcement.
One of these things is not like the other, what exactly were you? I'm trying to imagine a sworn federal agent working in law enforcement without a police background. I'm guessing something like an Securities & Exchange Investigator or maybe an IRS auditor, or perhaps a US Postal Inspector, some role that separated you from the "goons" and yet somehow gave you insight into their training while simultaneously shielding you from knowledge that multiple federal agencies employ officers with police powers and commissions. Am I getting warm?
Of course you don't have to answer, I'm just curious.
Are you implying that the US Military has been activated against citizens?
Looks that way.
The United States Armed Forces[10] are the military forces of the United States. It consists of the Army, Marine Corps, Navy, Air Force, Space Force, and Coast Guard.[11][12] The president of the United States is the commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces and forms military policy with the Department of Defense (DoD) and Department of Homeland Security (DHS), both federal executive departments, acting as the principal organs by which military policy is carried outThat's quite a stretch. Do you think there are active duty military personnel or units providing protection services in Portland, or any other US city right now or will be soon?
It is fascinating to me how quickly some people are supportive of the president when if you ask them about dead kids in school situations they shout ‘BUTTHE SECOND AMENDMENT!!!’ But now we ask legit questions about current federal authority they quickly default to ‘we need to keep control’. The disconnect is kind of sad and pathetic. But not surprising.
It is fascinating to me how quickly some people are supportive of the president when if you ask them about dead kids in school situations they shout ‘BUTTHE SECOND AMENDMENT!!!’ But now we ask legit questions about current federal authority they quickly default to ‘we need to keep control’. The disconnect is kind of sad and pathetic. But not surprising.
I don’t think it’s necessarily true that everyone who supports the Bill of Rights also supports the President. Or that the two issues are connected at all.
I think there are a lot of ridiculous assertions being made right now by people pushing various narratives.
I think the “legit” questions to be asked are whether the President has the legal authority to deploy federal agents to these locations and whether the local authorities have willingly or unwillingly failed to maintain order to the extent that federal intervention is called for. I suppose that we could also ask the question of the extent to which federal agents should go to protect federal facilities. I think those questions will ultimately decided by the courts or at the ballot box; not by anonymous people insulting each other on the internet.
I'm not calling myself a journalist.
Also, the NYT article backs up what I've written.
I well remember their front page musings on whether objectivity should be dispensed with where Trump was concerned.
I guess if community’s are ok with armed neighborhood patrols they should be able to cut back on the police funding. I’m sure things will work out fine in Minneapolis. We like our police here and will just continue to let them do the job.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/minneapolis-residents-forming-armed-neighborhood-124508528.html
Some people apparently long for authoritarian rule and the "strong daddy" type of governance. I'm not one of them. We still have the First Amendment, and now's the time to use it.
I’m wondering what the protester would gain if the feds left Portland and let them loot and burn the federal buildings to the ground? What has that got to do with defunding the police? Do you think they would stop there.
Some people apparently long for authoritarian rule and the "strong daddy" type of governance. I'm not one of them. We still have the First Amendment, and now's the time to use it.
The First Amendment doesn’t allow looting, assault, and vandalism. The Second Amendment can help deter.
Apparently the first amendment doesn't allow for talking to federal goons either.
https://www.tmz.com/2020/07/26/vietnam-veteran-pepper-sprayed-face-federal-agents-portland-protests/
"Federal storm troopers and jack-booted thugs." --Steve Schmidt, Republican, referring to the anonymous federal agents in Portland
"Real soldiers don't just walk up to people and start beatin' on 'em....What kind of bullshit is this?" --Lt. General Russel Honore', US Army retired
“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” Maya Angelou
"Federal storm troopers and jack-booted thugs." --Steve Schmidt, Republican, referring to the anonymous federal agents in Portland
"Real soldiers don't just walk up to people and start beatin' on 'em....What kind of bullshit is this?" --Lt. General Russel Honore', US Army retired
Is there any evidence that military personnel have been deployed to any of these places?
Is there any evidence that military personnel have been deployed to any of these places?
the rioters looked suited up for a battle, and they are carrying weapons, do they count? Do the resistance and antifa count?
What should the feds wear when they are under attack?
What’s the answer? I asked above and no one answered. Should the feds just leave and let the mob loot and destroy the federal buildings. What does that gain?
Is there any evidence that military personnel have been deployed to any of these places?
Who knows. Maybe if they weren’t cosplay cops we’d know one way or the other. We do, however, know that they are agents of the federal government engaged in policing not related to federal laws or protecting federal assets. And we know that they are attacking people for doing nothing more than exercising their first amendment rights.
Who knows. Maybe if they weren’t cosplay cops we’d know one way or the other. We do, however, know that they are agents of the federal government engaged in policing not related to federal laws or protecting federal assets. And we know that they are attacking people for doing nothing more than exercising their first amendment rights.
If you’re going to accuse someone of conduct unbecoming a soldier, shouldn’t it matter if they actually are a soldier or not?
If you’re going to accuse someone of conduct unbecoming a soldier, shouldn’t it matter if they actually are a soldier or not?
And if you're going to give someone policing authority shouldn't you have them wear uniforms and badges so that their misconduct can be correctly attributed to them and their organization?
And if you're going to give someone policing authority shouldn't you have them wear uniforms and badges so that their misconduct can be correctly attributed to them and their organization?
Yes. At least to the extent that you can identify the agency they belong to and some kind of individual identifying number.
frugal-one
7-27-20, 5:13pm
[QUOTE=Alan;358843]Are you implying that the US Military has been activated against citizens?
Looks that way.
The United States Armed Forces[10] are the military forces of the United States. It consists of the Army, Marine Corps, Navy, Air Force, Space Force, and Coast Guard.[11][12] The president of the United States is the commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces and forms military policy with the Department of Defense (DoD) and Department of Homeland Security (DHS), both federal executive departments, acting as the principal organs by which military policy is carried out
This is the definition...
frugal-one
7-27-20, 5:18pm
I don’t think it’s necessarily true that everyone who supports the Bill of Rights also supports the President. Or that the two issues are connected at all.
I think there are a lot of ridiculous assertions being made right now by people pushing various narratives.
I think the “legit” questions to be asked are whether the President has the legal authority to deploy federal agents to these locations and whether the local authorities have willingly or unwillingly failed to maintain order to the extent that federal intervention is called for. I suppose that we could also ask the question of the extent to which federal agents should go to protect federal facilities. I think those questions will ultimately decided by the courts or at the ballot box; not by anonymous people insulting each other on the internet.
Also, the question as to when the feds should interfere at all. trump is not stepping up on a number of issues and says it is the state's responsibility to figure out. Now, on this issue, he is trying to bully his way even though the states want the feds to butt out. He definitely is not a leader.
frugal-one
7-27-20, 5:21pm
the rioters looked suited up for a battle, and they are carrying weapons, do they count? Do the resistance and antifa count?
What should the feds wear when they are under attack?
"IF" they are feds they should be identifiable as such.
Now we've got leaf blower dads protecting people's first amendment rights.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/26/leaf-blower-wars-how-portland-protesters-are-fighting-back-against-tear-gas-forming-walls-veterans-lawyers-nurses/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0o_Y9a4AiaTz9JcfPSmnMZVUJpdMGAqSw5I_xWs xLZZmDCihCHJ_Hg2Lc#comments-wrapper
ApatheticNoMore
7-27-20, 7:19pm
It's nice to know leaf blowers are good for something, and here all this time I thought they were the most useless thing ever invented.
It's nice to know leaf blowers are good for something, and here all this time I thought they were the most useless thing ever invented.Au contraire, if you live on a heavily wooded lot where the trees have no compunction against dropping their detritus everywhere, you'll see that they are most useful indeed. Plus, if you have grandkids, you can teach them to use it as a rocket engine for a wheeled desk chair. Not useless at all!
Now we've got leaf blower dads protecting people's first amendment rights.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/26/leaf-blower-wars-how-portland-protesters-are-fighting-back-against-tear-gas-forming-walls-veterans-lawyers-nurses/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0o_Y9a4AiaTz9JcfPSmnMZVUJpdMGAqSw5I_xWs xLZZmDCihCHJ_Hg2Lc#comments-wrapper
All those groups with cute names and matching outfits. Sort of like a Portlandia sketch come to life.
All those groups with cute names and matching outfits. Sort of like a Portlandia sketch come to life.
No kidding. Almost makes me wish we lived there. (although personally I would've gone with Home Depot Dads...) But that Cascadia subduction zone is no joke. Earthquakes here aren't likely to be nearly as catastrophic, just more frequent.
They were using leaf blowers in Hong Kong last year (although without the performance art). I read it can work well against aerosols but not true gases.
catherine
7-28-20, 11:06am
No kidding. Almost makes me wish we lived there.
I LOVE Portlandia! if this weren't so serious, I'd die for a Fred/Carrie spoof.
The thing that bothers me most about the violent/negative reaction to the protests is it completely negates the underlying issue!! It's like going to the doctor with cancer and the doctors bemoaning the outrageous use of bandages that curing it will involve. It makes me realize that most people will do anything to not upset their comfy status quo, including completely ignoring real social issues, which, if they were walking in the shoes of the oppressed, they'd surely sing a different tune.
God forbid we break a couple eggs to improve life for 15% of our population. Can't we stop the FEDS v ANARCHIST argument of the week and look deeply into the injustices of the century?
iris lilies
7-28-20, 12:58pm
I LOVE Portlandia! if this weren't so serious, I'd die for a Fred/Carrie spoof.
The thing that bothers me most about the violent/negative reaction to the protests is it completely negates the underlying issue!! It's like going to the doctor with cancer and the doctors bemoaning the outrageous use of bandages that curing it will involve. It makes me realize that most people will do anything to not upset their comfy status quo, including completely ignoring real social issues, which, if they were walking in the shoes of the oppressed, they'd surely sing a different tune.
God forbid we break a couple eggs to improve life for 15% of our population. Can't we stop the FEDS v ANARCHIST argument of the week and look deeply into the injustices of the century?
entirely theoretical: my perception as a decidedly priveleged person is that ya’ll will NEVER be happy with real or perceived or varying or imagined or whatever measure to address “injustice.”
of course you are minimizing the whole business of equalizing outcome for all by saying “break a couple eggs. “
We already broke a few eggs to put in to place the ACA. That was a piece of legislation that affected a large part of the population, a veey large number, who diD not benefit. About 15% of those who were not insured back in 2013 are now insured. To you that’s probably worth it. To me I think it’s a bad Move even though I Personally benefited from it, a privileged persoN. The ACA is a good example of a giant piece of legislation that is far reaching and can be debated on so many levels because there’s so much detail and It affects such a big part of the population in both anticipated consequences and in Unanticipated consequences.
entirely theoretical: my perception as a decidedly priveleged person is that ya’ll will NEVER be happy with real or perceived or varying or imagined or whatever measure to address “injustice.”
of course you are minimizing the whole business of equalizing outcome for all by saying “break a couple eggs. “
Was the breaking of a few eggs during Civil Rights Movement worth it? Or should we have continued to allow segregation because "those black folks will never be satisfied."
Was the breaking of a few eggs during the Women's Liberation Movement worth it? Or should we have made sure we kept the little women in the kitchen where they belong and let them whine about injustice during their afternoon bridge clubs?
in terms of equalizing outcome, when it comes to justice and equality, what is good for 15% is probably a good outcome for all. As far as the ACA, even Obama said that was just the foot in the door. Yes, we broke a couple eggs, but the omelets will come when we finally realize that all the other developed nations have the right idea.
Teacher Terry
7-28-20, 2:26pm
The ACA saved my DIL’s life. The insurance through the casino was awful and didn’t meet ACA standards.
The ACA also benefitted SO because it eliminated the $1m lifetime cap on his traditional employer plan.
Teacher Terry
7-28-20, 2:33pm
My DIL’s surgery could only be performed by very few doctors and was a million dollar surgery.
ApatheticNoMore
7-28-20, 3:06pm
If I needed medical care that only a few doctors covered I would assume they would all be out of network in ACA plans. Narrow networks, they are all about that.
Btw and noone ever can explain this to me please tell me how ACA plans are a good option for the unemployed when future income is unforeseeable - ok one hopes for the best and plans for the worst but one has to actually be able to anticipate future income to plan ACA subsidies and no-can-do (and of course perhaps past income means one doesn't qualify for a subsidy no matter how out of work they are now).
The ACA does not mesh well with unemployement, it assumes predictable income (also doesn't mesh well with gig work or any work with an unpredictable income - the ACA seems built for an economy that hasn't existed since long before it was created!). Well we've got enough unemployment now so that's going to become pretty obvious. Take the subsidy and pay it back if one ends up not qualifying? No um you don't understand how it works, non-ACA equivalent plans may be significantly cheaper, if one did that one would potentially lose a bunch of money.
Health insurance needs to be separated from employment. I believe we need a system like that in Britain or Canada.
Teacher Terry
7-28-20, 6:08pm
They were out of network but quickly moved to the state the doctor was in.
I may have found the key as to why Biden thinks it's OK to hit on young girls on the campaign trail (as discussed in this article
https://www.vox.com/2019/6/13/18663399/joe-biden-10-year-old-hyde-women).
In reading Free Thinker about feminist Helen Hamilton Gardener, who fought to raise the age of consent for sexual activity, I was shocked to read that in Delaware the age of consent was 7 years old for girls.
This is the culture an unrepentant Biden comes from.
It reminds me a little of Michael Jackson telling an interviewer that he was going to continue having children sleep in his bed because he didn't think he was doing anything wrong.
iris lilies
9-2-20, 8:05pm
I may have found the key as to why Biden thinks it's OK to hit on young girls on the campaign trail (as discussed in this article
https://www.vox.com/2019/6/13/18663399/joe-biden-10-year-old-hyde-women).
In reading Free Thinker about feminist Helen Hamilton Gardener, who fought to raise the age of consent for sexual activity, I was shocked to read that in Delaware the age of consent was 7 years old for girls.
This is the culture an unrepentant Biden comes from.
It reminds me a little of Michael Jackson telling an interviewer that he was going to continue having children sleep in his bed because he didn't think he was doing anything wrong.
I am no defender of the old Joe in general but I don’t accept that argument, that he thinks it is ok to hit on young girls because of an archaic and likely little known law.
He is probably unaware of the archaic law, but influenced by the culture that gave rise to it. Roy Moore also comes from that culture.
I worked for a school district superintendent who reminds me of Joe Biden and his "touchy-feely" nature. This was a school superintendent who came into contact with teenage girls every day. He touched everyone, hugged everyone, had a huge smile, and I truly don't believe his actions, while maybe misguided, would be classified "sexual harassment"--at least back then. I don't remember people being concerned about his actions--and believe me, the parents in this school district were not shy or passive.
if I don't vote for Joe, it won't be because of this type of behavior. It's certainly not the same as asking young children to sleep in your bed.
When delaware’s was 7 the age of consent in most states was 10. it’s unlikely that it is a factor in anyone’s behavior today. But I have to admit, it’s certainly the most novel reason I’ve heard from someone to justify not voting for someone.
I worked for a school district superintendent who reminds me of Joe Biden and his "touchy-feely" nature. This was a school superintendent who came into contact with teenage girls every day. He touched everyone, hugged everyone, had a huge smile, and I truly don't believe his actions, while maybe misguided, would be classified "sexual harassment"--at least back then. I don't remember people being concerned about his actions--and believe me, the parents in this school district were not shy or passive.
if I don't vote for Joe, it won't be because of this type of behavior. It's certainly not the same as asking young children to sleep in your bed.
Did the superintendent come up behind people he didn't know, sniff their hair, and then kiss them on the head? Biden is a total weirdo.
Did Biden grab em by the pussy after putting a tic tac in his mouth? If not then you should probably just STFU.
There was Tara Reade.
Exactly.
This is really shocking!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations
While Trump is nobody’s idea of a moral paragon, I have to believe that with all the political, financial and media firepower arrayed against him if any of these allegations had any traction we would be seeing much more of them.
Of course, we haven’t got to the October surprise phase of the election yet.
frugal-one
9-4-20, 12:53pm
While Trump is nobody’s idea of a moral paragon, I have to believe that with all the political, financial and media firepower arrayed against him if any of these allegations had any traction we would be seeing much more of them.
Of course, we haven’t got to the October surprise phase of the election yet.
Sad to see them at all. As you said, just shows the moral character of trump. It will be interesting to see what happens after he is president!
Did Biden grab em by the pussy after putting a tic tac in his mouth? If not then you should probably just STFU.
Please tell me that simply came out meaner and ruder than you intended. If not, I think you're out of line.
Teacher Terry
9-4-20, 2:34pm
A few
months ago Tybee pointed out that we are all friends and should be nicer even when we disagree. I am guilty of not being nice sometimes and have been trying really hard to rectify that. I hope I am successful. This is such a small forum that it’s different than a big impersonal one.
I am not surprised about this article or about Donald's mysogeny/adultery. What is surprising is that so many people brush it off as a moral failing equivalent to cutting ahead in line. After the famous ET November surprise 4 years ago, I read a Facebook post by one of the mothers in my neighborhood who actually said she was PROUD that her 16 year old daughter didn't care that Donald said what he did and did what he did. Honestly, it's mind-blowing to me.
I think there have been dozens (if not hundreds? I’m forgetting details but it’s a lot ...) of allegations against trump already. It’s not just a handful of examples. It’s continuous over his lifetime.
And it's not hair-sniffing, either. There are several allegations of rape, not to mention his stalking the Miss Teen Whatever pageants while contestants were dressing, and making sexual remarks about his daughter. I'm sure Epstein could tell some interesting stories if he weren't conveniently dead.
I agree Trump is a scumbag too. That is why I am voting for Howie Hawkins. I saw many good candidates in New Hampshire. It is sad who the major parties settled on.
I agree Trump is a scumbag too. That is why I am voting for Howie Hawkins. I saw many good candidates in New Hampshire. It is sad who the major parties settled on.
Never heard of Howie Hawkins. He probably won't even be on my ballot????
Never heard of Howie Hawkins. He probably won't even be on my ballot????
He should be. He's the Green Party candidate, and they usually manage to get their candidate on most ballots. I'm pretty sure Jill Stein did. There may be a bunch of disgruntled Bernie supporters who would find Howie to represent the progressive left.
Please tell me that simply came out meaner and ruder than you intended. If not, I think you're out of line.
I agree. Come on, JP, you are better than that.
You’re right. That was an undeserved knee jerk reaction. My intent was to point out the absurdity of worrying about Biden’s morals given the obviously non-moral and non-ethical current resident of the White House.
Teacher Terry
9-5-20, 10:38am
I live in a state where my vote counts. I won’t be wasting it on people with zero chance.
I’ve been wrong before, but it seems increasingly apparent to me that this election will not hinge on character. The record seems to provide plenty of evidence of low behavior for both candidates. Even this latest Atlantic story doesn’t seem to be getting much attention outside Chatterville.
I think victory will depend on a sort of pin the tail on the donkey (or elephant, as the case may be) for COVID, or the rash of riots, or the recession. Are the riots instigated by the Republican’s systemic racism or the Democrats’ laxity? That kind of thing.
My fear is that the Dems will blow it again. Trump supporters care nothing about his character, only the thought that he is somehow helping them. The Dems need to reiterate the death toll, the systemic racism and how it affects his borderline supporters, the unemployment, the so called new jobs which only benefit the corporations, corporate welfare...but they need to find one or two to just ramp up over and over the way Fox news does. Just say the same thing over and over. I do think this denigration of veterans could be a turning point...but after all it is fake news.
Don't forget when Tara Reade made her allegations Trump defended Biden, because they are two peas from the same pod.
I agree that character means nothing. Trumpers love Trump. They have not been dissuaded by lies, cheating, hypocrisy, narcissism, meanness, bullying, and bias for the wealthy at the expense of the middle class and the environment. It all means NOTHING to them. I think he represents an icon of who they would want to be, oddly--to be so in control of their environment and their destiny that nothing could shake them. Biden has to prove that he can get their lives back in control. That COVID will pass, that the economy will secure their futures, and that they can pick and choose the "Trump" they want to be--not the lying cheat, but the King of Mar-a-Lago and all things bright and shiny.
ApatheticNoMore
9-5-20, 12:31pm
Truthfully character means very little to me in this one. I mean if I really felt a politician was promising me something I could believe in, I'd try to evaluate their willingness to deliver, which one might call their character, based on past record,following the money (who is funding their campaign), and personality characteristics (and maybe still be wrong because it's often *still* hard to know!).
But few can seriously believe Biden is the next FDR or whatever they think they can push now (I suppose circumstances force greatness on some but). We have a centrist (and further right than most Dem candidates) politician versus an openly corrupt narcissist. The Dem establishment types he will appoint versus the incompetents Trump appoints. The argument against Trump are in large part conservative Lincoln project type arguments, that he is destroying institutions, and HE IS: the CDC, the FDA, nevermind the EPA etc.. People who trusted such institutions like those in public health scream in anguish. This guy is just tearing apart what somewhat functional institutions we have in this country, it's a lurch toward Latin American style tin pot corruption and deciding that *that* is the future we want in this country. To what degree does a Biden admin have the will to rebuilt as that is where we are at, I don't know.
But what about progressive arguments? The primary was the election. It often is. And well ..
Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
EVERYBODY KNOWS THE WAR IS OVER
EVERYBODY KNOWS THE GOOD GUYS LOST
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows
(for the Republican convention who had the nerve to play Leonard Cohen but not Everybody Knows, or Democracy, or The Future).
Teacher Terry
9-5-20, 12:35pm
I had a good laugh over the false statement that Biden and Trump were the same. They are polar opposites.
I didn’t think Trump had much of a shot a month or two ago, but now I think the riots will help more than hurt him, and COVID seems to be receding somewhat in the national consciousness. He seemed to do his best as a backlash candidate, profiting from the resentment of the disdain of certain elites. If he can position himself as the anti-riot guy as opposed to the I-deplore-violence-but approach, and sell the argument that the violence is occurring in places traditionally controlled by Democrats, he may pull it off.
The Democrats have the more complicated tasks of convincing the public that the impact of the virus is largely due to Trump, and that his baleful influence has made the rioting worse. And they need to do it without insulting large segments of the population.
Neither the character issue and promise of vast new government benefits don’t yet seem to have made much of an impact. If that changes in the next few months I would think it will help the Democrats substantially.
I had a good laugh over the false statement that Biden and Trump were the same. They are polar opposites.
same here...
Truthfully character means very little to me in this one. I mean if I really felt a politician was promising me something I could believe in, I'd try to evaluate their willingness to deliver, which one might call their character, based on past record,following the money (who is funding their campaign), and personality characteristics (and maybe still be wrong because it's often *still* hard to know!).
But few can seriously believe Biden is the next FDR or whatever they think they can push now (I suppose circumstances force greatness on some but). We have a centrist (and further right than most Dem candidates) politician versus an openly corrupt narcissist. The Dem establishment types he will appoint versus the incompetents Trump appoints. The argument against Trump are in large part conservative Lincoln project type arguments, that he is destroying institutions, and HE IS: the CDC, the FDA, nevermind the EPA etc.. People who trusted such institutions like those in public health scream in anguish. This guy is just tearing apart what somewhat functional institutions we have in this country, it's a lurch toward Latin American style tin pot corruption and deciding that *that* is the future we want in this country. To what degree does a Biden admin have the will to rebuilt as that is where we are at, I don't know.
But what about progressive arguments? The primary was the election. It often is. And well ..
Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
EVERYBODY KNOWS THE WAR IS OVER
EVERYBODY KNOWS THE GOOD GUYS LOST
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows
(for the Republican convention who had the nerve to play Leonard Cohen but not Everybody Knows, or Democracy, or The Future).
A lot of truth in that. And thanks for the Cohen reference. I'm asking Alexa to play Everybody Knows. I've never heard it.
I used to vote for random candidates with no chance of even registering, let alone winning. I no longer expect a candidate to be a paragon of perfection; I just want them to share my values as much as possible. Biden is a compromise, but Trump is unthinkable.
Every day... today's
President Donald Trump has directed the Office of Management and Budget to crack down on federal agencies' anti-racism training sessions, calling them "divisive, anti-American propaganda".
A Trump administration proposal released Friday would allow the government to deny habitat protections for endangered animals and plants in areas that would see greater economic benefits from being developed -- a change critics said could open lands to more energy development and other activities..... Other steps under Trump to scale back species rules included lifting blanket protections for animals newly listed as threatened, setting cost estimates for saving species and a pending proposal to restrict what areas fit under the definition of "habitat".
I had a good laugh over the false statement that Biden and Trump were the same. They are polar opposites.
Polar opposites? True believers are going to truly believe, but that seems to be laying it on a bit thick even for these overheated times.
I think there are many similarities between these two. Both used privileged positions to avoid military service, and then spent the next few decades pretending to be tough guys. Both are prodigious liars and needlessly vindictive. Just ask Curtiss Dunn. Both have compiled impressive ick factors.
If the election comes down to character, I think both sides will have enough ammunition to waste the next couple of months annoying the voters with attack ads. I don’t think either side will be able to convince anyone except the zealots that this is a battle between good and evil. This is going to be more of a hold-your-nose election.
I had to look up Curtiss Dunn and found this article:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/03/19/bidens_memory_isnt_the_only_problem_its_his_lies_1 42706.html
There has been apocalyptic language for years -- this is the most important election, the very nature of our government and our our freedom is at stake, etc. Remember the inaugural day protests when Bush got in office, which Michael Moore dramatized with dire warnings? And the country survived.
I don't thing the country can survive another 4 years of trump.
I don't thing the country can survive another 4 years of trump.
Sure it will, it's the extreme Trump haters that I worry about surviving that long. The rest of us will be just fine whoever wins. :sick:
Sometimes I consider deleting my twitter and Instagram as an act of self protection should we descend into fascism. Because I’ve been clearly anti-Trump. But it’s too late. Everything ever posted is available forever - deleting accounts doesn’t help.
Yes, that is my fear. Fascism in America.
Sometimes I consider deleting my twitter and Instagram as an act of self protection should we descend into fascism. Because I’ve been clearly anti-Trump. But it’s too late. Everything ever posted is available forever - deleting accounts doesn’t help.
Yes, that is my fear. Fascism in America.I'm not concerned with governmental fascism, it's the cultural fascism in social media and our cherished social institutions that concerns me.
Yes there is also that ...
ApatheticNoMore
9-6-20, 1:05am
apocalypse is likely nothing more nor less than inevitable. I just do what I can. W Bush didn't destroy this country, he destroyed Iraq. Now the guns to seem pointed more inward though.
If anyone still harbors the idea that Trump will stay in power through some kind of coup, his reported dissing of military service should quash that idea. They would never prop him up.
I'm not concerned with governmental fascism, it's the cultural fascism in social media and our cherished social institutions that concerns me.
I think you’re right. While people speak hysterically about imaginary fascist coups, the self-appointed inquisition is canceling wrongthinkers wherever they can get away with it.
frugal-one
9-6-20, 12:45pm
I'm not concerned with governmental fascism, it's the cultural fascism in social media and our cherished social institutions that concerns me.
Why are you not fearful of governmental fascism? That is something to be fearful of.
Fascism definition is - a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
Why are you not fearful of governmental fascism? That is something to be fearful of.
Because there are protections built into our governing documents and legal system to prevent it, or at least make it difficult to achieve. The only time I'm aware that our government may have been headed down the path of fascism were a few years leading up to WWII when Roosevelt and other leaders were openly admiring Mussolini's fascist regime in Italy and wondering how to implement it here. But, old Benito decided to bend the country's knee to Hitler and it temporarily went out of favor in Democratic circles. I say temporarily because I see similarities espoused by much of the left in this country and the tendency of Dem politicians to at least appear to be on the bleeding edge of those desires, although I suspect rational heads and the constitutional limitations on government we enjoy will eventually prevail before it becomes a governing ideology.
I'm not so comfortable on the social side of things, the left dominates popular culture through entertainment and other media, and it shows.
ApatheticNoMore
9-6-20, 2:41pm
I still think it's more a 3rd world model with Trump, than anything early 20th century Europe. Extreme and widespread corruption to the point where most institutions are corrupt, a government unable to do even the most basic things right. Yep. This can be tyrannical too of course and often is. But maybe less like setting the house on fire, and more like termites munching greedily.
frugal-one
9-7-20, 12:10pm
Because there are protections built into our governing documents and legal system to prevent it, or at least make it difficult to achieve. The only time I'm aware that our government may have been headed down the path of fascism were a few years leading up to WWII when Roosevelt and other leaders were openly admiring Mussolini's fascist regime in Italy and wondering how to implement it here. But, old Benito decided to bend the country's knee to Hitler and it temporarily went out of favor in Democratic circles. I say temporarily because I see similarities espoused by much of the left in this country and the tendency of Dem politicians to at least appear to be on the bleeding edge of those desires, although I suspect rational heads and the constitutional limitations on government we enjoy will eventually prevail before it becomes a governing ideology.
I'm not so comfortable on the social side of things, the left dominates popular culture through entertainment and other media, and it shows.
Dream on. trump has already shown signs of fascism and Nazi behavior.
Today's ....
https://news.yahoo.com/more-ever-trump-casts-himself-121836650.html
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.