View Full Version : Please explain this to me
iris lilies
5-10-20, 10:01pm
Let this be a thread where the common sense of others will shed light on our questions.
This is not a rant thread and we don’t get to make accusations about the actions of other people necessarily, these are sincere questions here. Thank you.
iris lilies
5-10-20, 10:03pm
Golf shoes.
They have spikes on the bottom. Why is that, to aerate the soil?
Would these shoes be any good on ice?
Golf shoes.
They have spikes on the bottom. Why is that, to aerate the soil?
I believe it's to provide a more stable stance, less chance of slipping.
Would these shoes be any good on ice?
I would think not, the spikes are more like rubber cleats these days and I doubt they'd grip the ice, probably the opposite effect.
Golf shoes.
They have spikes on the bottom. Why is that, to aerate the soil?
Would these shoes be any good on ice?
I've tried, but I found ice skates worked better, I achieved higher speed, was able to turn better, and my slap shots were superior.
If (cloth or other) masks protect you against Covid-19 why can't people put on a mask, going into the ICU, and say goodbye to their loved ones dying of coronavirus? If masks don't protect why the legal mandates, store requirements, and social pressure to wear one? Is it just a way for people to feel they can do something in a situation where they are largely helpless, or a way to justify going out in public when they should not because they are restless stuck at home?
rosarugosa
5-11-20, 5:55am
If (cloth or other) masks protect you against Covid-19 why can't people put on a mask, going into the ICU, and say goodbye to their loved ones dying of coronavirus? If masks don't protect why the legal mandates, store requirements, and social pressure to wear one? Is it just a way for people to feel they can do something in a situation where they are largely helpless, or a way to justify going out in public when they should not because they are restless stuck at home?
My understanding is that they help somewhat.
If (cloth or other) masks protect you against Covid-19 why can't people put on a mask, going into the ICU, and say goodbye to their loved ones dying of coronavirus? If masks don't protect why the legal mandates, store requirements, and social pressure to wear one? Is it just a way for people to feel they can do something in a situation where they are largely helpless, or a way to justify going out in public when they should not because they are restless stuck at home?
For the same reason that coughing into your elbow does not keep you from getting sick. Masks keep the people around you from getting sick, they don’t keep the wearer from getting sick.
For the same reason that coughing into your elbow does not keep you from getting sick. Masks keep the people around you from getting sick, they don’t keep the wearer from getting sick.
So if a mask were put on the dying covid patient people could visit him or her in the hospital?
IL, great initial question--you might enjoy this thread I found where others wondered the same:
https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/threads/golf-shoes-are-just-great-in-the-snow.21248/
iris lilies
5-11-20, 8:19am
So if a mask were put on the dying covid patient people could visit him or her in the hospital?
Jeppy,, I think of it this way: hospitals must have higher standards, and do have higher standards, than those of us out in the wild. In fact that they had better have higher standards, I expect that as a hospital patient. There are levels of effectiveness.
iris lilies
5-11-20, 8:25am
Things DH told me:
When I ask him why we don’t hear about people committing suicide by carbon monoxide in their garage with the car running, he said it’s because modern cars have catalytic converters (or maybe it was another mechanical thing ) and don’t put out those emissions.
Is this right?
If one is so inclined to commit suicide that method always seemed the best to me.
And here I thought your thread had taken a refreshing turn away from morbidity!
iris lilies
5-11-20, 8:34am
And here I thought your thread had taken a refreshing turn away from morbidity!
It’s just an intellectual exercise!
Please explain to me why....
People may or may not stand in line for a $3M Powerball but they absolutely stand in a long line to buy a $100M Powerball ticket.
iris lilies
5-11-20, 8:49am
Please explain to me why....
People may or may not stand in line for a $3M Powerball but they absolutely stand in a long line to buy a $100M Powerball ticket.
Better advertising and promotion for the big one! $3M isn’t that much money, by the time you split it with the government it is downright paltry, haha.
Please explain to me why....
People may or may not stand in line for a $3M Powerball but they absolutely stand in a long line to buy a $100M Powerball ticket.
Time is money and those piddly payouts aren't worth mine. >8)"
Actually, I think it's because we all know we're not going to win a $3M prize, but when it gets to be $100M you think "Yeah, but what if?"
Please explain to me why....
People may or may not stand in line for a $3M Powerball but they absolutely stand in a long line to buy a $100M Powerball ticket.
Why are people willing to stand in line for any lottery with patience but struggle to wait in line for simple daily activities?
early morning
5-11-20, 9:23am
Why are people willing to stand in line for any lottery with patience but struggle to wait in line for simple daily activities? Maybe because it's more fun to daydream about spending your millions while waiting to buy a lottery ticket than it is to fantasize about meal prep or driving around with a new driver's license or new auto tags, while waiting in those lines, lol.
early morning
5-11-20, 9:27am
Here ya go, IL:
Granted, it's not a new study, but....
https://www.mja.com.au/journal/1998/168/2/impact-catalytic-converters-motor-vehicle-exhaust-gas-suicides
My understanding is that they help somewhat.
There are charts available that show how much they help by mask composition and fit. As I recall it varies between 20% and 95%. Of course, if you're forced to wear one for hours or days while exposed to patients shedding lots of virus, you're probably doomed.
iris lilies
5-11-20, 9:53am
Here ya go, IL:
Granted, it's not a new study, but....
https://www.mja.com.au/journal/1998/168/2/impact-catalytic-converters-motor-vehicle-exhaust-gas-suicides
nice answer!
91-1992.
Conclusion: Catalytic converters and the associated lower CO emission limits of 9.3 g/km had not, by 1995, resulted in a reduction in numbers, rates or percentages of exhaust gas suicides in Australia.
If (cloth or other) masks protect you against Covid-19 why can't people put on a mask, going into the ICU, and say goodbye to their loved ones dying of coronavirus? If masks don't protect why the legal mandates, store requirements, and social pressure to wear one? Is it just a way for people to feel they can do something in a situation where they are largely helpless, or a way to justify going out in public when they should not because they are restless stuck at home?
I hear the question clearly-as someone who has buried both parents, a brother and a BIL. And I was with 3 of the 4 when they died.
As a RN, and understanding the critical nature of PPE and current scarcity of PPE (yes it is still scarce so ignore what you hear from the President) and the fact that staff are reusing it, dressing the family members down is a tremendous use of those resources. And that puts the staff at even higher risk as they will have to reuse even longer.
Imagine going to work a 12hour shift: don a gown, gloves, hat, a tight fit-tested mask with tight elastic straps around your head, another mask over it to attempt to prevent splashing on it, walking into the COVID unit and not coming out for 12-16 hours? No food, no liquid, no bathroom break.
Now wear all that even longer because a bunch of PPE is consumed bringing in family.
It's horrible-I can't imagine not being present with my family members. However, protecting the lives of those who WILL live, takes priority. And I have no doubt they shed many tears for those family members as they are present at the deaths.
I will turn the topic to a great mystery to me and that is why all the old men on my street spend hours tending their lawns. No flowers or plants - just their bright green squares of lawn. Water, water, weed and feed, edge, edge, blow, blow, mow, mow. Repeat. Is it a sense of control over their turf? Please explain.
I will turn the topic to a great mystery to me and that is why all the old men on my street spend hours tending their lawns. No flowers or plants - just their bright green squares of lawn. Water, water, weed and feed, edge, edge, blow, blow, mow, mow. Repeat. Is it a sense of control over their turf? Please explain.
As an old man on my street I'd suggest that we just like the lawn to look nice.
catherine
5-11-20, 12:48pm
I will turn the topic to a great mystery to me and that is why all the old men on my street spend hours tending their lawns. No flowers or plants - just their bright green squares of lawn. Water, water, weed and feed, edge, edge, blow, blow, mow, mow. Repeat. Is it a sense of control over their turf? Please explain.
I agree--that's an interesting question.
As an old man on my street I'd suggest that we just like the lawn to look nice.
I respect that--it is the prototypical idea of suburban beauty and a very reasonable response, but if another "old man" chose NOT to cut grass so short it needs excess irrigation; NOT to weed and feed and infiltrate ground water with pesticides, NOT to blow stuff around and add to noise pollution; while instead creating a more diversified yet beautiful landscape that required fewer poisons and less water, and more color using beautiful native perennials and shrubs that provide habitat and food and pollen for wildlife--that's what I could consider a yard that "looks nice."
But I do agree that in most subdivisions in America, the yard with the most monocultured, weed-free, velveteen, carefully edged blocks of lawn wins. It's all a matter of perspective.
I respect that--it is the prototypical idea of suburban beauty and a very reasonable response, but if another "old man" chose NOT to cut grass so short it needs excess irrigation; NOT to weed and feed and infiltrate ground water with pesticides, NOT to blow stuff around and add to noise pollution; while instead creating a more diversified yet beautiful landscape that required fewer poisons and less water, and more color using beautiful native perennials and shrubs that provide habitat and food and pollen for wildlife--that's what I could consider a yard that "looks nice."
But I do agree that in most subdivisions in America, the yard with the most monocultured, weed-free, velveteen, carefully edged blocks of lawn wins. It's all a matter of perspective.
Is that the old woman equivalent of coloring her hair?
ApatheticNoMore
5-11-20, 1:03pm
There are a wide variety of lawns here, many people do go the native plant route, I like it much more, but very few are doing pure grass, some have a bit of grass, native plants, flowers, trees, some go full country cottage with roses and other flowers etc.. A few go rocks, or wood chips or if unkempt bare dirt (white rocks are by far the worst look imo, bare dirt looks better). So it's interesting to walk because there is a wide variety of landscaping. If there actually exists anywhere (or is that just a myth really?) it is just lawns that sounds horribly boring.
Is that the old woman equivalent of coloring her hair?
Yes, could be. Some women definitely go for the very carefully manicured look.
iris lilies
5-11-20, 1:17pm
The lawn issue: Yes I will explain it to you all, you anti-lawn rangers.
Here in the Midwest, particularly the upper Midwest and probably New England and certain parts of the PNW, Kentucky bluegrass and similar cultivars which like cooler weather will do fine without a whole lot of fussing. Yeah you may have clover and other weedy things mixed in, but overall, it’s easy to maintain a decent looking grass carpet. Now if you want a perfect lawn with only blades of grass and nothing else, then you have to fuss with it quite a lot.
Recently I attended the national convention of the American Iris society which was held in Des Moines Iowa. There were people from all over the country, including a loudmouth hybridizer from California who is known for his strong opinions and booming voice. During one of the bus tours I sat and listened to him pontificate about all these midwesterners and the gallons of chemicals they pour on their lawns and the hours and hours they spend maintaining lawns, what a waste, Etc etc.
Most of the turf we were seeing as we drove through the countryside was mow-it-and-forget-it stuff. I know that, being from Des
Moines. Mr.California Loudmouth probably didnt quite understand how low maintenance grass is here because in his land of brown it requires herculean efforts.
Me, I want a strip of grass to front my perennial garden. I don’t care about a big grassy lawn but I I do want a strip of emerald green to set off the flowers.
DH, having been a professional lawn jockey, used to expend a lot of effort on our lawn. Now he is too busy to do that, some bare spots and weeds have taken over, but it still looks just fine. It keeps the mud out of the house and sets off the flowers.
There are lots of ground covers available now to provide that strip of green--and you don't have to mow or fertilize them. You can even walk on those known as "stepables."
DH, having been a professional lawn jockey, used to expend a lot of effort on our lawn. Now he is too busy to do that, some bare spots and weeds have taken over, but it still looks just fine. It keeps the mud out of the house and sets off the flowers.
Perfect.
As I have a neighbour to the right of me with the perfectly manicured lawn, built in irrigation, chemicals, watering every other day and mowing every 3rd day using a gas lawn mower, a gas trimmer and a gas blower each time, I can comment with some insight. Said individual is retired, complains if a neighbour's ball lands in his back yard, calls the fire department if there is smoke visible in his yard from a neighbour's fire-pit, complains at the proposed paint markings of my new fence until the fencing company using rope indicates the surveyor's rods, front and back, that are being used. This dear man is well known and avoided for his nature. That said, he waves cheerfully at me whenever He sees me, washes his car every weekend or oftener and their property always looks neat.
I think these men are smart capable, OCD and just bored out of their skulls. Busy people are doing volunteering, golfing, fishing, mentoring children, cooking, walking dogs, etc. Lawns are not as important to them it seems.
I suspect the same might be said of the women who choose the very carefully manicured look mentioned above.
There is one house not far from me that is the very opposite in maintenance, plantings, repair, pests, triggering complaints to the bylaw officer from several people; I will take the bored OCD lawn maintainer each time.
After living here for a few years , I must admit that after a while the persistent white of snow and/or the brown of the prairie start to get to you. You have three months of summer and you want to see green. I get that. Also, these guys would probably have nothing to do if they weren't out tending their lawns. I spent most of my years in TX living with drought and restrictions so my perspective on saving water is ingrained. It just amazes me how much effort goes into these big green boring squares.
iris lilies
5-11-20, 2:16pm
After living here for a few years , I must admit that after a while the persistent white of snow and/or the brown of the prairie start to get to you. You have three months of summer and you want to see green. I get that. Also, these guys would probably have nothing to do if they weren't out tending their lawns. I spent most of my years in TX living with drought and restrictions so my perspective on saving water is ingrained. It just amazes me how much effort goes into these big green boring squares.
Mow-it-and-forget-it Midwestern lawns are not irrigated. Irrigation systems are pretty unusual there in normal houses although I’m sure out in the toney Macmansionland they have irrigation systems all over the place.
In Hermann we have 1 acre much of it in grass lawn and DH mows it, trims it every other mowing, but no chemicals, certainly no crazy expensive irrigation system.We complain about the moles and stomp down their tunnels,but have not done anything about them. I suppose if they start in on Iris I would have to change my mind about that.
Teacher Terry
5-11-20, 2:21pm
We never had irrigation until we moved to Wichita. Definitely needed it at times. Here we have it in our garden and bushes.
iris lilies
5-11-20, 2:22pm
There are lots of ground covers available now to provide that strip of green--and you don't have to mow or fertilize them. You can even walk on those known as "stepables."
I have Aguga and ivy and vinca in several places as ground covers, but those do not hold up to heavy foot traffic no matter what the eco warriors tell you. But they are perfectly fine for many of the tiny yards around my neighborhood where people seldom step. They are easy to maintain as well and I think they look nice.
Our lawn has lots of non-grass stuff. As long as it's green, I'm fine. I do pull the occasional dandelion. I don't want a bunch of chemicals. We don't water. If it dies back during the summer, oh well.
I hear the question clearly-as someone who has buried both parents, a brother and a BIL. And I was with 3 of the 4 when they died.
As a RN, and understanding the critical nature of PPE and current scarcity of PPE (yes it is still scarce so ignore what you hear from the President) and the fact that staff are reusing it, dressing the family members down is a tremendous use of those resources. And that puts the staff at even higher risk as they will have to reuse even longer.
Imagine going to work a 12hour shift: don a gown, gloves, hat, a tight fit-tested mask with tight elastic straps around your head, another mask over it to attempt to prevent splashing on it, walking into the COVID unit and not coming out for 12-16 hours? No food, no liquid, no bathroom break.
Now wear all that even longer because a bunch of PPE is consumed bringing in family.
It's horrible-I can't imagine not being present with my family members. However, protecting the lives of those who WILL live, takes priority. And I have no doubt they shed many tears for those family members as they are present at the deaths.
I am taking it from your response that as I have asserted elsewhere masks that are not N95 are feel good measures that do not protect against covid. I totally get why you would want to save what actually works for medical personnel. I also appreciate that you get that the wearer of PPE dons it to protect him or herself from sick people, not necessarily to avoid infecting other people. Some others seem to miss this point. Why else would medical personnel who tested negative at the beginning of their shift wear PPE? They are not protecting others, they are protecting themselves.
Thank you for your response.
By the way, I have had the opportunity to try both a homemade cloth mask and a KN95 at work, and the former is far less restrictive, but I would imagine much less protective. The bandannas I would think are of even less utility, not to mention how often people take off random face coverings and let them dangle below their chins.
Wearing a cloth covering is hard enough, full PPE must be truly daunting. It is not some minor inconvenience and in my opinion covering up shouldn't be mandated when it is of little to no benefit, such as with ill-fitting, amateur coverings in non-medical situations where one is not within 6 feet of the same person for 15 minutes or more (the standard for contact tracing).
Here's a few questions I've pondered.
Why do you saute onions first when they will go into a dish that is going to cook anyway.
Why do celebrities who most likely are well set with millions and millions endorse cheesy products. Like William Shatner, former Commander of the Starship Enterprise promoting CPAP cleaning machines machines, or Joe Namoth selling reverse mortgages, or Alex Trebek and life insurance.
Is forcing some businesses and public areas closed due to CV-19 risk really against the constitution, or is that just something the protesters totally fabricate.
Another thing I wonder about is why bazilllionaires buy/live in massive-sized houses?
Masks:
https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v1
Apples, oranges, and confusion. Some deliberate.
Yppej, you’ve had it explained to you that cloth face coverings keep OTHERS. safe. You steadfastly ignore that fact. Can we assume that you simply don’t give a crap about other people? Are you one of those people who refuses to cough into your elbow? All I can say is thank god you live in a different state from me. Most of the people in my state show signs of caring about others. Clearly you don’t.
Someone who has actually studied how covid is transmitted. TLDR, until there is a vaccine or effective treatment for people who have contracted it people should not go to restaurants, bars or crowded offices. Social distancing only works when you are just briefly interacting with infected people. Not when you are spending an hour or two in their proximity.
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them
ApatheticNoMore
5-12-20, 1:03am
Someone who has actually studied how covid is transmitted. TLDR, until there is a vaccine or effective treatment for people who have contracted it people should not go to restaurants, bars or crowded offices. Social distancing only works when you are just briefly interacting with infected people. Not when you are spending an hour or two in their proximity.
ok but they are going to force people back to offices soon anyway or what get them to quit with no unemployment (which I have considered fwiw) and classrooms for that matter etc. (risky for teachers).
All I can say is thank god you live in a different state from me. Most of the people in my state show signs of caring about others.
yes this is what I see, although that's just the grocery store because I haven't been much of anywhere since this started. And well people wear them outside as well, which might be a bit overkill if you aren't getting near anyone
Masks:
https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v1
Apples, oranges, and confusion. Some deliberate.
I see this is not peer reviewed. I liked the first comment about how the non financial costs of wearing masks was ignored in the article.
Yppej, you’ve had it explained to you that cloth face coverings keep OTHERS. safe. You steadfastly ignore that fact. Can we assume that you simply don’t give a crap about other people? Are you one of those people who refuses to cough into your elbow? All I can say is thank god you live in a different state from me. Most of the people in my state show signs of caring about others. Clearly you don’t.
I do cough into my elbow, I do keep my distance from people, and I follow my state"s directive on masks while I do not like it. Since this began I have only seen my elderly parents 3 times at a distance of greater than 10 feet, including on Mother's Day when I did not hug my mom. It is not easy.
There are numerous people at work who come up in close proximity to me in non customer areas not wearing a mask including both managers. I don't do that to others. I keep my distance except for one person who lives in my household. You know next to nothing about me, yet you repeatedly criticize me and attack me personally because I disagree with you on policy.
The reason I’m so frustrated with the anti-maskers is because we’ve now spent nearly two months with everything shutdown and we have little to show for it and will soon see a big uptick in cases because 1) a lot of the country is opening up too soon and too quickly, and 2) a not insignificant chunk of the population refuses to wear masks to reduce their ability to infect and kill other people. Other countries are starting to open up after similar lengths of shutdown but don’t have the same two issues we have. They will recover both economically and virologically much more quickly than the US.
And in the meantime the federal efforts at implementing tracking and tracing, critical for re-opening safely have now gotten to the point of implementing it for the staff at the White House but no where else.
I apologize for attacking you in particular. If we had other outspoken anti-maskers on this board I would be attacking them with equal vehemence because widespread mask wearing is the only way we’re going to be able to get back to any semblance of normal before there’s a vaccine. Unless we, alternatively, decide that a million dead people per year until we reach herd immunity is acceptable.
The reason I’m so frustrated with the anti-maskers is because we’ve now spent nearly two months with everything shutdown and we have little to show for it and will soon see a big uptick in cases because 1) a lot of the country is opening up too soon and too quickly, and 2) a not insignificant chunk of the population refuses to wear masks to reduce their ability to infect and kill other people. Other countries are starting to open up after similar lengths of shutdown but don’t have the same two issues we have. They will recover both economically and virologically much more quickly than the US.
And in the meantime the federal efforts at implementing tracking and tracing, critical for re-opening safely have now gotten to the point of implementing it for the staff at the White House but no where else.
I apologize for attacking you in particular. If we had other outspoken anti-maskers on this board I would be attacking them with equal vehemence because widespread mask wearing is the only way we’re going to be able to get back to any semblance of normal before there’s a vaccine. Unless we, alternatively, decide that a million dead people per year until we reach herd immunity is acceptable.
I do not think masks is the only way. I think compelling people in high risk groups to stay home is better. China did that. I responded in this vein in more detail on the Coronavirus thread.
flowerseverywhere
5-12-20, 6:22am
I do not think masks is the only way. I think compelling people in high risk groups to stay home is better. China did that. I responded in this vein in more detail on the Coronavirus thread.
one of the arguments I have seen from mask protesters is the guidelines of various states violate their constitutional rights. Since the data suggests African Americans are disproportionately affected as well as seniors, I’m kind of thinking picking out groups of the high risk and order them to stay home will open a new can of worms.
i am high risk. Almost seventy and asthmatic. Never smoked anything ever. I don’t know when I’ll see my young grandchildren In person again which breaks my heart. I am self isolating and when I do go out I wear a mask and keep as far away from others as possible. Does that mean I should impose my beliefs on others? Is it morally or constitutionally right? I don’t know.
Sometimes I think I should just go see my grandkids and risk dying, but I love them too much to put their health at risk.
flowerseverywhere
5-12-20, 6:39am
Masks:
https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v1
Apples, oranges, and confusion. Some deliberate.
in the recommendations they reference “morally unacceptable harm”. There is certainly a lot of that in society today. I liken not wearing a mask to drunk driving. You might get home with no problems and you might kill a family. Worth the risk?
Yesterday a friend of ours(for 35+ years, so we know their kids well) found out her daughter with a newborn is covid positive. She took the baby to her senior age parents house on Mother’s Day, even though they live in a state with stay at home orders and high amount of cases. Now the whole family is full of self blame, remorse and frantic anxiety.
I do not think masks is the only way. I think compelling people in high risk groups to stay home is better. China did that. I responded in this vein in more detail on the Coronavirus thread.
That’s all we’ll and good until mike pence shows up at your nursing home bearing empty boxes of PPE.
Someone who has actually studied how covid is transmitted. TLDR, until there is a vaccine or effective treatment for people who have contracted it people should not go to restaurants, bars or crowded offices. Social distancing only works when you are just briefly interacting with infected people. Not when you are spending an hour or two in their proximity.
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them
That was a good article. I've sent it to a few friends who have given a positive comment on it. If a person considers his examples of community spread having a significant relationship to air flow, it's easy to understand the effectiveness of masks.
Where is the 'cloud' storage stored? Cost in energy? Can you tell that I am trying to understand what 'cloud storage' means?
That’s all we’ll and good until mike pence shows up at your nursing home bearing empty boxes of PPE.
Jimmy Kimmel had to apologize about that. We really shouldn't get our new from comedians.
flowerseverywhere
5-12-20, 8:58am
Jimmy Kimmel had to apologize about that. We really shouldn't get our new from comedians.
Ditto for reality show hosts.
Where is the 'cloud' storage stored? Cost in energy? Can you tell that I am trying to understand what 'cloud storage' means?
The "cloud" is simply a bunch of computers which store data and which are connected to other computers. That network can be the Internet or can be a local/private network (say, within a corporation or within a building or campus).
The "cloud" name came about because the specific location of the data that is stored is indeterminate to people using the data. Your device (computer or phone or tablet or ATM or cash register) manages that. The data (or even an app) simply is available through the device you're using, and whether it's coming from a computer near your home or one in Sao Paolo, Brazil, is of almost no consequence to you. Cloud data (and apps) often is replicated in various locations for many reasons: redundancy (not just one "golden" copy of the data but multiple instances of it kept in sync), response time (generally faster when the computer containing the data or app is closer to you), local language or content requirements (think Chinese versions of Google), etc.
Energy use? It can be considerable, though computers have made big strides in how much energy they use. The old joke used to be that a computer could also double as a furnace in a small home; those days are long gone. While rooms full of computers and storage devices do require cooling, it is orders of magnitude less than was needed 10-20 years ago (though the number of those devices keeps going up on an absolute basis).
Google, for instance, is said to have at least two million "servers" (though some of them exist as just a single board in a rack full of single boards or even as just a software program that emulates a physical computer). Microsoft is said to have about a million, to serve up OneDrive data and Microsoft (Office) 365 and email and its other products. Even the Fortune 100 company I worked at had more than 10,000 servers when I left nine years ago, many of which were either "blades" or virtual, not discrete boxes sitting on desks or tables. Not all of these were cloud servers but that gives you an idea of the population. Mining for cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin was estimated in 2018 to use about 1% (https://www.energy.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id=8A1CECD1-157C-45D4-A1AB-B894E913737D) of all the electrical power in the world; today there are 8733 nodes (https://bitnodes.io/) working away at mining Bitcoin (for our purposes, they can be considered cloud servers though some of them actually are boxes sitting on tables, which are inefficient cloud storage devices).
Does that help?
catherine
5-12-20, 10:10am
I never thought much about what the "Cloud" was, but I found Steve's explanation super interesting. Thanks!
I think in my technologically-naive mind, I almost took it literally! When I look for a document that's backed up in my cloud, I almost picture it descending from the heavens. :)
A lot about current technology, like cell phones and internet, is so mind-boggling. If we thought it would have been hard to explain to someone from the 19th century what a 1950s television set is and how it works, how would we ever explain uncountable bits of data flying through the "air"?
Masks:
https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v1
Apples, oranges, and confusion. Some deliberate.
That first comment is mind-boggling to me. The mask isn't permanently affixed to one's face, after all. It's generally not worn at home, and with luck, the pandemic will be over in time. Cluelessness? Selfishness?
Commenter: David Curtis
The commenter has declared there is no conflict of interests.
Comment: This article completely fails to consider the costs of mask-wearing. There's a reason why we don't do this. It impairs our quality of life. We like to feel fresh air on our faces. We like to go out and see people. We like to be able to talk to people unencumbered. We like to be able to see people's expressions, their smiles.
Sure, make a judgement about the relative benefits and harms of mask-wearing. But don't purport to be writing some kind of rational appraisal while completely ignoring the obvious loss of quality of life which universal, permanent mask-wearing would entail.
Jimmy Kimmel had to apologize about that. We really shouldn't get our new from comedians.
Apparently you are correct but if he has covid, which is a very real possibility, the germs won’t care whether the box was full or not.
Jimmy Kimmel had to apologize about that. We really shouldn't get our new from comedians.
There’s never been a virus yet that could spread as fast as a lie congenial to the prevailing narrative.
catherine
5-12-20, 11:08am
That first comment is mind-boggling to me. The mask isn't permanently affixed to one's face, after all. It's generally not worn at home, and with luck, the pandemic will be over in time. Cluelessness? Selfishness?
Commenter: David Curtis
The commenter has declared there is no conflict of interests.
Comment: This article completely fails to consider the costs of mask-wearing. There's a reason why we don't do this. It impairs our quality of life. We like to feel fresh air on our faces. We like to go out and see people. We like to be able to talk to people unencumbered. We like to be able to see people's expressions, their smiles.
Sure, make a judgement about the relative benefits and harms of mask-wearing. But don't purport to be writing some kind of rational appraisal while completely ignoring the obvious loss of quality of life which universal, permanent mask-wearing would entail.
My opinion on this FWIW--there is obviously a dearth of good studies on this topic because this is a brand new problem. So, challenging the study is reasonable. There is nothing conclusive in JAMA or NEJM or any other journals and if there are, please post them.
But IRL, I see NOTHING wrong with adopting a reasonable practice like trying to keep your "stuff" out of other people's faces and vice versa.
It's uncomfortable? You can't see me smile at you? You can't breathe easily through it for a short period of time? Poor baby. Life is tough. Again, I go back to times when people had REAL sacrifice, like living in an an attic annex for 2 years with 8 other people, or taking jobs in factories to hold places for servicemen overseas.
Wearing masks is not a REAL sacrifice, IMHO, and the "why not" is so much bigger than the "why."
ToomuchStuff
5-12-20, 11:08am
Why else would medical personnel who tested negative at the beginning of their shift wear PPE? They are not protecting others, they are protecting themselves.
Thank you for your response.
Wrong. Oh so fing wrong.
While used to attempt to protect the medical workers from getting infections, it is also used to attempt to stop the spread of infections, which is why they are SUPPOSED to be a one use thing. There is more to hospitals then just Covid. I have had multiple people I know, come out of hospitals with staph infections that required them to be quarantined until they were no longer infectious. These can be spread by reusing PPE to both the sick and the well.
My opinion on this FWIW--there is obviously a dearth of good studies on this topic because this is a brand new problem. So, challenging the study is reasonable. There is nothing conclusive in JAMA or NEJM or any other journals and if there are, please post them.
But IRL, I see NOTHING wrong with adopting a reasonable practice like trying to keep your "stuff" out of other people's faces and vice versa.
It's uncomfortable? You can't see me smile at you? You can't breathe easily through it for a short period of time? Poor baby. Life is tough. Again, I go back to times when people had REAL sacrifice, like living in an an attic annex for 2 years with 8 other people, or taking jobs in factories to hold places for servicemen overseas.
Wearing masks is not a REAL sacrifice, IMHO, and the "why not" is so much bigger than the "why."
The breeze on your face? Really? What kind of twaddle is this? Go stand in your backyard and feel all the breeze you want.
You can buy a mask with a window now, for lip-readers. And there are face shields. People in this country seem incredibly childlike and entitled that they can't tolerate even a few months of minor inconvenience like masking up and social distancing.
People in this country seem incredibly childlike and entitled that they can't tolerate even a few months of minor inconvenience like masking up and social distancing.
I completely agree.
SteveinMN
5-12-20, 12:18pm
I never thought much about what the "Cloud" was, but I found Steve's explanation super interesting. Thanks!
I think in my technologically-naive mind, I almost took it literally! When I look for a document that's backed up in my cloud, I almost picture it descending from the heavens. :)
You're welcome! What I left out of my note was that the "cloud" refers in part to the data being "up there somewhere" like, uh, clouds.
A lot about current technology, like cell phones and internet, is so mind-boggling. If we thought it would have been hard to explain to someone from the 19th century what a 1950s television set is and how it works, how would we ever explain uncountable bits of data flying through the "air"?
I saw on Twitter once the comment, "If you told someone 15 years ago that in the future their computer would have something called “airplane mode,” they would be incredibly disappointed by what that actually did"
I don't think mask wearing will be a short term thing. I think a precedent has been set and now every flu season everyone will be expected to wear one, because as the prevailing narrative and Trump say, even one death is too many.
Thank you Steve. At some point we are going to be paying for the internet or do ads cover the expense? I have 5G cloud storage and have been advised to pay a monthly fee ($1.29f mth) for more so tryng to figure out options for storage. Memory sticks are a possibility for my photos.
iris lilies
5-12-20, 12:47pm
There’s never been a virus yet that could spread as fast as a lie congenial to the prevailing narrative.
...and LDAHL hits it out of the park again!
I am taking it from your response that as I have asserted elsewhere masks that are not N95 are feel good measures that do not protect against covid. I totally get why you would want to save what actually works for medical personnel. I also appreciate that you get that the wearer of PPE dons it to protect him or herself from sick people, not necessarily to avoid infecting other people. Some others seem to miss this point. Why else would medical personnel who tested negative at the beginning of their shift wear PPE? They are not protecting others, they are protecting themselves.
Thank you for your response.
By the way, I have had the opportunity to try both a homemade cloth mask and a KN95 at work, and the former is far less restrictive, but I would imagine much less protective. The bandannas I would think are of even less utility, not to mention how often people take off random face coverings and let them dangle below their chins.
Wearing a cloth covering is hard enough, full PPE must be truly daunting. It is not some minor inconvenience and in my opinion covering up shouldn't be mandated when it is of little to no benefit, such as with ill-fitting, amateur coverings in non-medical situations where one is not within 6 feet of the same person for 15 minutes or more (the standard for contact tracing).
Are you for real? OK. Experiment. Please go to the nearest hospital. Ask to sit in a COVID room on a COVID unit for 6 hours with no PPE. You should be fine according to your babble above.
Your lack of interest in actually understanding basic facts is so far beyond my ability to comprehend.....l
Wrong. Oh so fing wrong.
While used to attempt to protect the medical workers from getting infections, it is also used to attempt to stop the spread of infections, which is why they are SUPPOSED to be a one use thing. There is more to hospitals then just Covid. I have had multiple people I know, come out of hospitals with staph infections that required them to be quarantined until they were no longer infectious. These can be spread by reusing PPE to both the sick and the well.
TMS: Y doesn't want to understand. I don't know why, but after she gets done with her shift in a COVID room for 12hours without PPE, let's see how she's doing on day 18!>:(
Are you for real? OK. Experiment. Please go to the nearest hospital. Ask to sit in a COVID room on a COVID unit for 6 hours with no PPE. You should be fine according to your babble above.
Your lack of interest in actually understanding basic facts is so far beyond my ability to comprehend.....l
I guess you missed where I wrote, "in non-medical situations where one is not within 6 feet of the same person for 15 minutes or more (the standard for contact tracing)."
Good point, Yppej, about being able to be with dying relatives for 15 minutes if we wear a mask. It is definitely something that needs to be addressed.
Teacher Terry
5-12-20, 1:40pm
In Asian countries people have been wearing masks for years. It’s not a big deal. My take on Y is that her job worries are affecting other areas of her life. If you mask up to be with a dying person you are putting medical staff at more risk and risk spreading the virus. I would prefer to die alone than spread it to my family. Sacrifices need to be made and previous generations make us look like big babies.
I've never been with a loved one when they died--unless you count my cats. It's my opinion that we all die alone.
In Asian countries people have been wearing masks for years. It’s not a big deal. My take on Y is that her job worries are affecting other areas of her life. If you mask up to be with a dying person you are putting medical staff at more risk and risk spreading the virus. I would prefer to die alone than spread it to my family. Sacrifices need to be made and previous generations make us look like big babies.
I wonder how more mask wearing in this country would affect death rates from annual flu strains.
Teacher Terry
5-12-20, 1:49pm
In my family no one has died alone. My mom and I were with my dad and my brother with my mom. All our parents were with their parents but no one died suddenly.
My father was with my mother when she left, but he was asleep, so she slipped away. ;)
ApatheticNoMore
5-12-20, 1:54pm
The sad things is masks may be one of the few tools we actually have to lessen this pandemic.
And yes that's sad, because countries that actually have a government that's not COMPLETELY USELESS have other options although they probably make use of masks as well. I wish we could get there but this country is so screwed up. Some might say "herd immunity" is an option, even if that is possible (a matter of debate), I've heard predictions it would take until 2022 to achieve WITHOUT overwhelming hospitals. Or we go for overwhelming hospitals. Meanwhile the economy is not fully coming back, because the more deaths on the news and more so in people's direct immediate experience, the more people are afraid etc.. If we wanted the economy to really come back, we would have to do something to control the pandemic.
ApatheticNoMore
5-12-20, 1:56pm
My dad was so doped up on morphine when he died that no we weren't with him when he died, because he wouldn't have been with us in any sense regardless. I think this is usually how death really goes (and that's the good death not the dying in excruciating pain or anything death).
I see this is not peer reviewed. I liked the first comment about how the non financial costs of wearing masks was ignored in the article.
I guess if you'd read the actual study, instead of the random comments, you'd see that it is a review of the relevant published literature.
But why bother.
Good point, Yppej, about being able to be with dying relatives for 15 minutes if we wear a mask. It is definitely something that needs to be addressed.
Seriously? Just a mask in a COVID room on a COVID unit?
I give up. Ya'll do not want to learn ACTUAL infection prevention and safety. You prefer your fantasies........
I guess if you'd read the actual study, instead of the random comments, you'd see that it is a review of the relevant published literature.
But why bother.
Never dreamed I would give up educating but Bae, the refusal here is ridiculous>:(
Carry on ya'll. But whatever you do , please be sure and the people in your contact tracer under no circumstances go get healthcare. Those people deserve better. I wonder how many more RNs and Docs and RTs I know will die because ya just don't get it>:(
Seriously? Just a mask in a COVID room on a COVID unit?
I give up. Ya'll do not want to learn ACTUAL infection prevention and safety. You prefer your fantasies........
Gardner, I never said this. What I said is that we can't go to visit my parents, and if they die, we can't get into see them, even if they don't have Covid. We can't see them now, and none of us has covid.
I am talking about ways that families can be with dying family members. I was not talking about being in a hospital setting.
Please stop twisting my words. I am addressing end of life issues, which still exist, even at this time. I never said I was going into a covid unit in a crappy mask and endanger people.
iris lilies
5-12-20, 2:21pm
There’s never been a virus yet that could spread as fast as a lie congenial to the prevailing narrative.
...and LDAHL hits it out of the park again!
I've never been with a loved one when they died--unless you count my cats. It's my opinion that we all die alone.
That's true. But for the living, being with loved ones when they die is an immeasurable blessing. I was with my mother and my MIL when they died, and I am so glad. It may or may not have helped them, but it definitely helped me. I think the inability of loved ones to be with parents/spouses/etc during these times is huge trauma and tragedy.
Can't we come up with a solution that ensures the safety of all, yet permits the intimacy at these critical times?
Teacher Terry
5-12-20, 2:27pm
Tybee, hopefully your parents will be fine and you will see them again.
That's true. But for the living, being with loved ones when they die is an immeasurable blessing. I was with my mother and my MIL when she died, and I am so glad. I think the inability of loved ones to be with parents/spouses/etc during these times is huge trauma and tragedy.
Can't we come up with a solution that ensures the safety of all, yet permits the intimacy at these critical times?
Thank you, Catherine, that is really well stated, something I don't seem to be able to put into words, so thank you for that .
frugal-one
5-12-20, 2:27pm
Yppej, you’ve had it explained to you that cloth face coverings keep OTHERS. safe. You steadfastly ignore that fact. Can we assume that you simply don’t give a crap about other people? Are you one of those people who refuses to cough into your elbow? All I can say is thank god you live in a different state from me. Most of the people in my state show signs of caring about others. Clearly you don’t.
Yppej, Your constant harping on how we should just stay home forever is ridiculous. I wish you had that option.
Tybee, hopefully your parents will be fine and you will see them again.
Thanks, Terry, I'm hoping to be able to see my mother again, and dad too--it's just that with her dementia, she does not do well with the phone, can't process what she is hearing and she gets more confused trying to talk on phone.
Teacher Terry
5-12-20, 2:34pm
Everyone has a need to get out. Being isolated sucks. Old people can’t stay home for years. Tybee it’s hard for people with dementia to talk on the phone.
Yppej, Your constant harping on how we should just stay home forever is ridiculous. I wish you had that option.
Me too. If I could stay home and survive financially I would. But I am not independently wealthy nor do I have a retirement income. And some of the people critical of me are fortunate enough to have the option of working from home which I do not, or not working at all.
Everyone has a need to get out.
Need or want?
If you oppose the confinement of a burkha, and realize it is traumatic psychologically as well as physically, you should understand some of the objections to a mask.
ApatheticNoMore
5-12-20, 2:41pm
if people were only asking women to wear masks then the objections would be the same as burka, I mean the objections to a burka, which whatever I'm live and let live about that type of stuff pretty much, it's that it's a symbol of patriarchy right. A mask is now a symbol of patriarchy? Ok ...
frugal-one
5-12-20, 2:45pm
There’s never been a virus yet that could spread as fast as a lie congenial to the prevailing narrative.
Whatever that means?? ...
Everyone has a need to get out. Being isolated sucks. Old people can’t stay home for years. Tybee it’s hard for people with dementia to talk on the phone.
I hadn't realized how hard, as she was doing okay with it until this lockdown at the facility. Being locked in their rooms, unable to come out, has done a number on both of them cognitively, including my dad, as he says he has lost track of time now. He can't understand things that are happening, that I'm saying--it;s not just his deafness, as he has the captioned phone. He just can't follow the same way, and she can barely talk on the phone now.
Teacher Terry
5-12-20, 2:49pm
A psychological need Y. Tybee, my friend with Alzheimer’s lost her ability to talk on the phone once she went into a facility. It probably had to do with being separated from her husband. He wanted to go with her as he was dying but with a feeding tube in his stomach no facility in Nevada or California could take him. He also did it himself feeding and cleaning. I can see how they would go downhill without family stimulation.
frugal-one
5-12-20, 2:52pm
That's true. But for the living, being with loved ones when they die is an immeasurable blessing. I was with my mother and my MIL when they died, and I am so glad. It may or may not have helped them, but it definitely helped me. I think the inability of loved ones to be with parents/spouses/etc during these times is huge trauma and tragedy.
Can't we come up with a solution that ensures the safety of all, yet permits the intimacy at these critical times?
I disagree. I was with MIL and FIL when they died. I held MIL's hand. Not sure she knew I was there. To be truthful, it did nothing for me but make me remember watching them die. I wish I had never seen that.
iris lilies
5-12-20, 2:54pm
I've never been with a loved one when they died--unless you count my cats. It's my opinion that we all die alone.
You are truly my clone. I think the same, and I’m not sure that I would want anyone hovering around me if I was in that twilight space between full life and death. I’m not saying that I would not want someone, I’m just saying I don’t know.
There are all those stories about family members hanging over someone’s deathbed crying and blabbing, and when the family steps out of the room, the sick one dies, finally getting some peace for that journey.
But chances are being on a respirator I wouldn’t be concerned about people around me or might prefer peace and quiet. And as I previously stated on another thread, I assureD DH did not want him to come to a hospital every day to hang out or to feel guilty that he cannot.
I put my cat to sleep a couple weeks ago and my vet did allow Owners to be present at euthanasia even though they are not allowing owners to come in for exams. But I chose not toL because I just didn’t think it was worth the risk to any of us. I knew they would be nice to my kitty and she she likes everyone so that was my justification. She isnt a normal cat. Yes, I was one of those assholes who didn’t stay with her pet while she was euthanized. I’ve never done that ever before. But there’s a first time for everything.
Masks:
https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v1
Apples, oranges, and confusion. Some deliberate.
For those who have not read the linked article, it repeatedly states that there are no RCT's (randomized controlled trials) proving masks are effective for coronavirus. It says it "may have" a "partial effect" on viral shedding. A lot of this is namby-pamby. For example:
If only sick people wear masks the sick people will feel bad and we can't have their feelings hurt by social stigma.
Wearing a mask is a "signal of solidarity".
Masks give people not claustrophobia and discomfort but "a feeling of empowerment and self-efficacy". Nice try but no cigar.
Teacher Terry
5-12-20, 2:56pm
It’s a gift to help someone die. Even if you think they don’t know you are there the hearing is the last to go and I am sure they feel your touch and know you are there even if it doesn’t look like it.
frugal-one
5-12-20, 2:56pm
Me too. If I could stay home and survive financially I would. But I am not independently wealthy nor do I have a retirement income. And some of the people critical of me are fortunate enough to have the option of working from home which I do not, or not working at all.
Obviously, you must be an introvert or you would realize it is impossible to always stay home.
frugal-one
5-12-20, 2:58pm
If you oppose the confinement of a burkha, and realize it is traumatic psychologically as well as physically, you should understand some of the objections to a mask.
It is also psychologically traumatic to be stuck at home for days on end. Wear a mask and do social distancing.
iris lilies
5-12-20, 2:59pm
For those who have not read the linked article, it repeatedly states that there are not RCT's (randomized controlled trials) proving masks are effective for coronavirus. It says it "may have" a "partial effect" on viral shedding. A lot of this is namby-pamby. For example:
If only sick people wear masks the sick people will feel bad and we can't have their feelings hurt by social stigma.
Wearing a mask is a "signal of solidarity".
Masks give people not claustrophobia and discomfort but "a feeling of empowerment and self-efficacy". Nice try but no cigar.
oh honey, i think the social signaling is strong with the mask wearers.
i wear a mask when i uave to interact with other humans (not DH) closer than 6 feet. So far that has been 2-3 times in 8 weeks.
oh honey, i think the social signaling is strong with the mask wearers.
i wear a mask when i uave to interact with other humans (not DH) closer than 6 feet. So far that has been 2-3 times in 8 weeks.
I don't wear a mask when I'm out hiking or biking here in the rural areas, where I won't encounter anyone. I do have PPE with me if I do, but this is no change - I've carried a PPE kit with me for years that includes a mask.
When I'm in the village, I don't wear a mask if I'm not interacting with anyone. If I am going to be going into a store, or walking on the sidewalk where stupid people are unable to maintain social distance, I put on the mask.
I also use an N95 mask for this, which I wouldn't recommend for the casual user. But my concern is not just protecting others from me, where a simple cloth mask would suffice.
Obviously, you must be an introvert or you would realize it is impossible to always stay home.
Disagreeable - yes. Impossible - no. Calling for personal growth and development, learning to live with oneself in peace and not needing constant noise and activity to paper over one's anxieties - yes.
frugal-one
5-12-20, 3:03pm
It’s a gift to help someone die. Even if you think they don’t know you are there the hearing is the last to go and I am sure they feel your touch and know you are there even if it doesn’t look like it.
My MIL knew I was there. Her eyes were starting to decompose (get holes in them) and I told her to shut her eyes, which she did. She heard me. I just wish I hadn't seen that. It did me no good. That is how I remember her.
frugal-one
5-12-20, 3:05pm
Disagreeable - yes. Impossible - no. Calling for personal growth and development, learning to live with oneself in peace and not needing constant noise and activity to paper over one's anxieties - yes.
You have no idea what you are talking about. You obviously need to be away from people. It would do you good.
It’s a gift to help someone die. Even if you think they don’t know you are there the hearing is the last to go and I am sure they feel your touch and know you are there even if it doesn’t look like it.
I have been present for many many deaths, and my impression is similar.
You have no idea what you are talking about. You obviously need to be away from people. It would do you good.
If you were talking Ebola where your organs liquefy and then you die, I don't think you would be so eager for people to be out and about but wearing protective gear. I think you would tell people they have to stay home even if they get bored or don't like it. The whole reason people think it is okay to go and about with just a mask now is that Covid is not that bad if you are not in a high risk group, one of the points I have been making all along. If you think it's bad for you stay home instead of trying to control everyone else who isn't high risk.
If you were talking Ebola ... Covid is not that bad...
So, for years now I've been on the region's infectious disease team, which was formed specifically to deal with the Ebola threat. Mostly in the role of hot-zone safety officer. And I've during the Covid event been working with the local emergency management agencies formulating the response, and making sure our hot-zone protocols were appropriate for covid.
Frankly, I'm a bit more concerned in general about Covid than Ebola, once I weigh all the factors.
Then again, my opinion is informed by actual experience, training, expertise, and science.
Teacher Terry
5-12-20, 3:25pm
When I remember people that I have seen die I think about the healthy, happy times. I would prefer not to die alone but wouldn’t want to risk my family or health care workers health. It’s a tough time for most people. I wish Y had been home for 2 months to see how fun it isn’t.
iris lilies
5-12-20, 3:29pm
When I remember people that I have seen die I think about the healthy, happy times. I would prefer not to die alone but wouldn’t want to risk my family or health care workers health. It’s a tough time for most people. I wish Y had been home for 2 months to see how fun it isn’t.
I really cannot picture not going out at all. I go out every day. I go out often two and three times a day.
For one thing I go out in my yard and work. For second thing I go out for a mile walk every day. For third I go to the community garden a block away and work. And then, every 3-4 days (only ‘cause the weather is cold and rainy too often) I take a spin in my red convertible.
then, I drive to Hermann periodically and repeat some of the above activity.
i get a fair amount of scenic change, important for me. I get little human interaction, but we have distanced conversations with neighbors almost daily.
Are you truly staying in the house day after day?
I really cannot picture not going out at all. I go out every day. I go out often two and three times a day.
I'm an introvert. I *can* survive for days at a time without going out.
However, over the past few years I had cultivated the habit of bicycling down to the village once a day, and spending at least a couple of minutes talking face-to-face with an actual human being, with my goal being to learn one new thing about them. I find in the New Era I really miss this simple practice.
I still go out to walk the dog, hike, and bicycle, but it's not really the same.
Teacher Terry
5-12-20, 3:32pm
I walk the dogs a mile and sit in the backyard. I have been in 3 stores in 8 weeks. All were super quick. We did eat out Saturday at one of the few restaurants that reopened. I miss having parties, traveling, festivals, movies and eating out once or twice a week. It royally sucks. Also in the past we would interact with people when we go out instead of avoiding them.
We did eat out Saturday at one of the few restaurants that reopened.
That is not something I would have done, but I do not condemn you. I think everyone should be free to use their best judgment in this crisis. What I am doing is avoiding close proximity to elderly people including my own family members although it is difficult. To me distancing is key, masks not so much, I think they are feel good measures.
I really cannot picture not going out at all. I go out every day. I go out often two and three times a day.
For one thing I go out in my yard and work. For second thing I go out for a mile walk every day. For third I go to the community garden a block away and work. And then, every 3-4 days (only ‘cause the weather is cold and rainy too often) I take a spin in my red convertible.
then, I drive to Hermann periodically and repeat some of the above activity.
i get a fair amount of scenic change, important for me. I get little human interaction, but we have distanced conversations with neighbors almost daily.
Are you truly staying in the house day after day?
This is what I meant by staying home - not locked in your house, but strong distancing.
I have masks that I wear if there may be a chance that I'll interact with people; I wear them very seldom, but I'm convinced that they're another layer of protection, with hand-washing, social distancing, more handwashing, disinfectant, etc.
I'm an introvert who can happily go days (weeks? months?) without in-person contact. If I want to feel the wind in my face, I can go stand in my yard.
In at least two of my loved ones' deaths, they were greeted by others who had predeceased them, come from the afterlife to escort them forward. Those of us who were left behind did the figurative hand-off. I wouldn't want people standing around wringing their hands over my deathbed either, but there's not much likelihood of that.
To me distancing is key, masks not so much, I think they are placebos.
A simple cloth mask is in essence creating "virtual distance". The point isn't that it is a Level A Hazmat suit.
A simple cloth mask adds several feet to the effective distance between you and another. Which is huge if you do the math, given the cubic nature of 3 dimensional space. (There are some other useful considerations involving air exchange rates in enclosed spaces).
Wearing a mask in circumstances where you can't maintain 6+ feet of distance is A Good Thing generally.
Thank you Steve. At some point we are going to be paying for the internet or do ads cover the expense?
Almost everyone pays for access to the Internet now, whether it's through their cable or telephone company, their mobile carrier, etc. There have been repeated attempts to offer Internet access "for free" if a customer listens to ads or participates in surveys or otherwise provides data about themselves which can be marketed to others for $$, but my experience is that almost all of them die eventually. Only Google has made serious money with this model. Some folks are fine with that approach; others are not.
Ads can cover the costs of some services. Some sites (like SLF) don't run ads; Alan occasionally lets us know how much it costs to keep the party going here and people contribute. I participate in a car-owner's forum in which a national tire chain does some low-key advertising and covers the costs of running that site. Many on-line news services have found that ads don't cover all of their costs, so they either limit the number of articles readers can see or require signing in and providing marketing data, removing ad-blocking software, or actually subscribing with money. Other sites are in-between.
I have 5G cloud storage and have been advised to pay a monthly fee ($1.29f mth) for more so tryng to figure out options for storage. Memory sticks are a possibility for my photos.
Three different things being discussed here:
- physical media (memory sticks, external hard drives, etc.): to oversimplify a little, these are used to make copies of the files you use on your primary device (computer, phone, etc.). They can expand storage to some degree, but also to can let you put copies of your data someplace safer than the original location of the data (for example, your house, which could be broken into or flood or start on fire). It's not wise to make a copy of your data and put it right next to the original. Physical media also can wear out or fail and, over the years, the hardware and file format needed to read these files may no longer be available.
- cloud storage for backup: there are services which let you back up parts of your computer/phone data to their service. You pay for this service. Most Internet access providers have very slow upload speeds, so getting your data up there and keeping it updated can chew up a lot of time. Services vary, too, on the quality of service they provide when you need your data back.
- cloud storage to synchronize files: some services allow you to maintain the same set of information across various devices. When I delete an appointment on my iPhone, iCloud synchronizes that entry on my Mac's calendar app and removes it there, too. Ditto for contacts, notes, etc. Apple also will let you store pictures and music in your cloud so you don't have to have full copies of those images and tunes taking up space on your device. That can save money on buying the device, but typically you'll pay for more than just a little of this service, too, and then you're at the mercy of having Internet access wherever you want to look at that picture or listen to that music.
There are some overlapping areas among all three of these and each has pluses and minuses. You have to decide which features are most compelling to you -- or which downside you want to avoid most. But -- again, oversimplifying a little -- they are different things for essentially different purposes.
Obviously, you must be an introvert or you would realize it is impossible to always stay home.
I am an introvert, and fine with being home 90% of the time. Frankly, I love having an excuse to turn down social engagements. I "get out of the house" by walking down to the lake or puttering in the garden. I love it when the summer neighbors are away during the week.
I was talking with my DD and future SIL on Mothers Day about that. They have decided, with their September wedding, to cancel the big shindig and have a very small, immediate family only event at my in-law's place in Maine. They are worried that they would put guests in a difficult position by asking them to travel.
But really, they are thanking God for this "silver lining" of COVID because they are both introverts and the only reason they entertained the idea of a big wedding is because my son-in-law has a big extended family. So they are thrilled to cut the guest list from 100+ to 28.
I know it's hard for extroverts to think this way. My extrovert son veers on thinking introverts are "weird" at best and "antisocial" at worst. But we are just happy with our own company.
I recall when I was in the final throes of childbirth that I did not want anyone else around me. I wonder if impending death might bring about the same feeling. I saw both my mother and little brother moments after they died and I wish that I did not have that image in my head. We did a FaceTime with my very non-techy mother in law on Mother's Day. She has been in her assisted living room now for two months without leaving. Best we can do for her right now. Back to masks...we stopped wearing ours on walks but always have on at the grocery or other places with people.
iris lilies
5-12-20, 4:57pm
I think some of us might be right about what we would want our deathbeds and others may not really know and that is OK. But I do know one thing: not everyone wants the same thing and I hope I don’t have some cheerful do-gooder nurse stroking my brow and holding my hand and talking nonsense to me because it will be nonsense. She doesn’t know me and Most anything she says will not speak to me.
I will never forget when my father was dying some damn do -gooder member of the nursing staff came up to me as I was standing near his bed and plastered her body against me in a loooong hug. And all I could think of was oh God yet one more thing I have to endure.
I still resent that moment because it was all about her.
ApatheticNoMore
5-12-20, 5:09pm
Maybe a couple of months before he died my dad was in the hospital, this was not the final time he was admitted, but the time before that when it looked like he would make it. When we went to visit him he said "what are you doing here, waiting for me to die?". "No, we are visiting you in the hospital" (or maybe waiting for you to get better one could have said). So maybe I took from that a month or two later when he actually was dying, that he would not actually want anyone waiting around for him to die (which is what it would have been if we had seen his death when he was unconscious on morphine anyway, just a waiting for death).
I have been in 3 stores in 8 weeks. All were super quick.
This is my mother's mindset too. If I am quick and wear a mask it is OK.
I heard on the news the number of people volunteering to get groceries and run errands for the elderly greatly exceeds the number of elderly signing up for these services. There is no need for any high risk person to go out, but there is definitely the want.
The economy is being gutted because the government feels the need to impose restrictions and shutter businesses because high risk people do not want to stay home. If they want to risk their lives I wouldn't lock them up, but I dislike ruining things for everyone else because they don't like to shelter in place. It should be venture out at your own risk.
iris lilies
5-12-20, 5:28pm
Oh absolutely, the number of do-gooders exceeds those wanting their help.
Our neighborhood had 15 to 20 volunteers signed up to run errands for those who are at risk. This was several weeks ago. Not one person is taking advantage of this well publicized effort. Not one.
The senior folks at my church are being sensible and staying in. They either have family or someone else willing to run errands.
I’ve been grocery shopping for the past month for a widow in her mid-80s I’m close to. We share a music stand in choir. She’s been staying home since early March. I drop the groceries on her porch, she sticks an envelope with her check out the door, and once I have it, I back up about 10 feet and chat for 5-10 minutes.
She said she goes out to the post office once a week to mail stuff. She uses the it drive by mail box. Saids it’s good for both her and her car to get out for that. She has no contact with anyone when she’s out. She has a small back patio she will sit on to get some air or goes for a walk around the block.
I haven't been in a store since some time in March. No do-gooders are clamoring to shop for me, either. I'm content to shelter in place for the foreseeable future, but I know people in my age group who make it a point to grocery shop once a week or so. With the distancing, masks, plexiglass barriers, directional arrows, and very limited human contact, I doubt they have much chance of contracting or spreading anything. But we'll see, I guess.
Teacher Terry
5-12-20, 6:13pm
Nobody is volunteering here to shop for seniors. The 3xs I went into a store because I needed to eat. My husband usually does it but was out of town. Once my son arrived he has been doing it for us. But he leaves Monday to work in Alaska all summer. The restaurant had taken out half of the tables and wasn’t full. That’s the only unnecessary thing we have done. My husband may be working out of town soon so will need to do all the shopping.
iris lilies
5-12-20, 6:50pm
Nobody is volunteering here to shop for seniors. The 3xs I went into a store because I needed to eat. My husband usually does it but was out of town. Once my son arrived he has been doing it for us. But he leaves Monday to work in Alaska all summer. The restaurant had taken out half of the tables and wasn’t full. That’s the only unnecessary thing we have done. My husband may be working out of town soon so will need to do all the shopping.
Are you sure? Do you belong to Next Door? That’s one source of information about shop-for-others efforts. I will bet churches have organized to do that as well, all over.
Teacher Terry
5-12-20, 7:07pm
Yes I am on Nextdoor. This is a very transient community. We don’t belong to a church.
iris lilies
5-12-20, 7:55pm
Yes I am on Nextdoor. This is a very transient community. We don’t belong to a church.
I know you dont belong to a church, but if there is a church set up to provide this service (like my neighborhood) and they have no takers, i bet they would shop for you.
I know that our do-gooders would wet their pants to help anyone, including those in contiguous neighborhoods at this point, since no one is taking advantage here of the service.
We have a virtual neighborhood meeting tonight in ten minutes and will virtually get updates on all of our virtuous social programs.
frugal-one
5-12-20, 8:11pm
This is my mother's mindset too. If I am quick and wear a mask it is OK.
I heard on the news the number of people volunteering to get groceries and run errands for the elderly greatly exceeds the number of elderly signing up for these services. There is no need for any high risk person to go out, but there is definitely the want.
The economy is being gutted because the government feels the need to impose restrictions and shutter businesses because high risk people do not want to stay home. If they want to risk their lives I wouldn't lock them up, but I dislike ruining things for everyone else because they don't like to shelter in place. It should be venture out at your own risk.
You don't know what the hell you are talking about!! Out 3x in 8 weeks is not excessive. BTW... Don't you work? You have been on this site all day? What does that say about you... unless it is your day off?
frugal-one
5-12-20, 8:13pm
A Senior Center?
Mine is closed.
If I were a senior I would let someone else get my groceries for me. Waiting in line to get into the store in what have been below freezing temperatures, wearing a mask, trying to find things that are not in stock, having people come up close to me because they don't care about social distancing since they think masks protect them, etc is not fun. There is no joy in shopping anymore, not to mention the health risk to older people.
Mine is closed.
Meals on Wheels is expanding to deliver groceries as well in some areas.
If I were a senior I would let someone else get my groceries for me. Waiting in line to get into the store in what have been below freezing temperatures, wearing a mask, trying to find things that are not in stock, having people come up close to me because they don't care about social distancing since they think masks protect them, etc is not fun. There is no joy in shopping anymore, not to mention the health risk to older people.
I'm in the Chicago area. Only the big box stores are making people wait outside. The regular grocery stores aren't doing that. Huge reason why I'm going to the regular grocery stores. Might cost a bit more, but no waiting outside and I'm in and out quickly.
frugal-one
5-12-20, 8:26pm
Meals on Wheels is expanding to deliver groceries as well in some areas.
You really don't have a clue.
frugal-one
5-12-20, 8:29pm
If I were a senior I would let someone else get my groceries for me. Waiting in line to get into the store in what have been below freezing temperatures, wearing a mask, trying to find things that are not in stock, having people come up close to me because they don't care about social distancing since they think masks protect them, etc is not fun. There is no joy in shopping anymore, not to mention the health risk to older people.
Didn't you say you are over 50? You are a senior! It is easy for you to say let someone else shop for me. Some of us don't have family or don't want others picking out our food. I shop every 3 weeks. I don't think that is excessive and if you do, who cares? BTW.. shopping was never fun.
Teacher Terry
5-12-20, 8:42pm
Meals on wheels is for people that can’t cook for themselves and meet certain income requirements. Plus locally there is a shortage of drivers because many are older themselves. My husband is 5 years younger and has diabetes. He is the shopper and wants to do it so he gets what he wants. We could use Walmart pickup but don’t like their meat. Once he is working out of town I will use it for everything but meat which will mean less time in a store. I wouldn’t want to take a spot away from people older than me who need it more for others to shop for them . Everyone gets to determine their own level of risk because we are all adults.
Didn't you say you are over 50? You are a senior! It is easy for you to say let someone else shop for me. Some of us don't have family or don't want others picking out our food. I shop every 3 weeks. I don't think that is excessive and if you do, who cares? BTW.. shopping was never fun.
Check the ages for special senior hours, and for senior discounts most places. I think you are confusing the age of eligibility for AARP which is 50 with senior citizen as defined by pretty much everyone else. It has occurred to me that I could find cleaning supplies if I went to the store during senior hour before they sold out, and with my gray hair I probably could get in without being challenged, but I am honest and am not doing that. Also since I have to go to work I'm already exposed to germs, it's not like I can stay safe by having someone else shop for me.
Meals on wheels is for people that can’t cook for themselves....Everyone gets to determine their own level of risk because we are all adults.
Meals on Wheels is operated by different agencies in different states. I am well aware of their traditional mission. Some agencies are expanding that during the pandemic. Other groups are as well. You are not interested and don't want to connect with do gooders - your choice, but it does not mean they are not out there.
Everyone does not get to determine their own level of risk. The government is putting in place many mandates. A pastor in my state has been repeatedly fined. Before each service he had ServPro come in to sanitize, congregants sat 6 feet apart and wore masks, etc. It did not matter. Freedom of religion and other rights are being taken away, but not the right to shop or, in Nevada, eat out in a restaurant.
I have been present for many many deaths, and my impression is similar.
I lost count of how many deaths I witnessed in my years of trauma Surgery. I was with Dad, then a good friend (at the family's request), then my BIL, then my Mom as well. I would not give up being present for them. I believe it is a privilege to support someone during transition be it stranger or family. I once experienced the patient leaving the OR before the pulse and BP changes began. He hovered in the OR until he flatlined and then promptly left.
Yes, with family/friend, it took awhile before the person's appearance in the final moment disappeared in my head and the living person took front stage. But it happens through the grieving process and now I have to really call it up and haven't done that for quite some time.
Death is the final stage of life. I don't think one should be alone. I'm on a RN Covid support group. RNs are staying with their patients, talking to them, holding their hands until they die. Then calling the families and providing as much detail as is requested. Families are grateful to know their loved one was not alone.
Everyone does not get to determine their own level of risk. The government is putting in place many mandates.
I have vehicles that are capable of exceeding 200mph, that handle well, that have amazing brakes, and that are well-maintained. I also have lots of professional high speed, evasive, dirt track, offroad, and emergency vehicle driving training, and decades of track time.
And yet there are speed limits, and I sorta-kinda follow them. Heck, I even wear seat belts.
And yet there are speed limits
Not everywhere. Not on the autobahn if you are driving a car as opposed to a truck, not in various other countries, and within my lifetime not in Montana.
Not everywhere. Not on the autobahn if you are driving a car as opposed to a truck, not in various other countries, and within my lifetime not in Montana.
I used to do a yearly 2-laps-of-Montana road rally every year, when they "didn't have a speed limit". In fact, they did - at nighttime it dropped to 55mph, and during the daytime it was "reasonable and prudent", and left to the discretion of the law enforcement officers. I had some chats with them about what their standards were, and they were pretty well thought out. You could not go arbitrarily fast in an arbitrary passenger vehicle.
The Autobahn certainly has speed limits in many sensible sections, and there is a Richtgeschwindigkeit of 130 km/hr on the others, which causes you to assume significant liability if you are involved in an accident above that speed. They also limit the types of vehicles allowed to go that fast, and they also have more stringent vehicle inspection and driver training requirements than we have in the US.
Etc. etc.
But you know this all...
Teacher Terry
5-12-20, 9:24pm
I have filled out paperwork and helped people here get meals on wheels doing volunteer work. I have colleagues still working in the field. Social workers have their hands full so won’t steal resources from people much older than us.
frugal-one
5-12-20, 9:26pm
Meals on Wheels is operated by different agencies in different states. I am well aware of their traditional mission. Some agencies are expanding that during the pandemic. Other groups are as well. You are not interested and don't want to connect with do gooders - your choice, but it does not mean they are not out there.
Everyone does not get to determine their own level of risk. The government is putting in place many mandates. A pastor in my state has been repeatedly fined. Before each service he had ServPro come in to sanitize, congregants sat 6 feet apart and wore masks, etc. It did not matter. Freedom of religion and other rights are being taken away, but not the right to shop or, in Nevada, eat out in a restaurant.
If it were up to you, you would take away more rights. Especially those who you perceive should not be out and about. Hypocrisy.
If it were up to you, you would take away more rights. Especially those who you perceive should not be out and about. Hypocrisy.
I would not make it mandatory for seniors to stay home. I would not fine them $300 the way people who practice their religion or who don't wear a mask are being fined. But I would strongly suggest it and I would set up delivery services to support it. I would as in Texas let them stay home and still collect unemployment insurance if called back to work. I would not crash the economy and take away other people"s rights if seniors choose to leave home. I believe in the right to die including assisted suicide. If seniors choose to recklessly risk exposure and die let them but don't turn our society upside down to protect them.
I have filled out paperwork and helped people here get meals on wheels doing volunteer work. I have colleagues still working in the field. Social workers have their hands full so won’t steal resources from people much older than us.
Again, Meals on Wheels is expanding due to covid 19. This is not taking anything away from those who were already receiving services. Here is an article on it:
https://www.mealsonwheelsamerica.org/learn-more/national/press-room/news/2020/03/16/meals-on-wheels-america-establishes-covid-19-response-fund-to-assist-community-based-senior-nutrition-providers-during-pandemic
frugal-one
5-13-20, 5:47am
I would not make it mandatory for seniors to stay home. I would not fine them $300 the way people who practice their religion or who don't wear a mask are being fined. But I would strongly suggest it and I would set up delivery services to support it. I would as in Texas let them stay home and still collect unemployment insurance if called back to work. I would not crash the economy and take away other people"s rights if seniors choose to leave home. I believe in the right to die including assisted suicide. If seniors choose to recklessly risk exposure and die let them but don't turn our society upside down to protect them.
It is a good thing you have no clout.
It is a good thing you have no clout.
In multiple news conference I have heard Donald Trump say even one death from covid is too much. So your approach of trying to save everyone no matter how high risk or the costs to everyone else is certainly not unique.
ETA Do you remember bubble boy, who couldn't risk bumping into hard surfaces or he would bleed to death? Maybe we should reconfigure our whole society because he would like to leave home. Maybe even in hot weather we should all walk around in thick uncomfortable quilted padding to protect him. We can't risk losing even one life, there is no cost/benefit analysis to be done.
No one's freedom of religion is being impinged upon--maybe freedom of assembly--but churches can hold virtual services and/or broadcast sermons. With luck, this is a temporary situation. One of those defiant pastors* met his maker a little sooner than he anticipated.
*https://kutv.com/news/coronavirus/defiant-pastor-who-vowed-to-hold-services-until-in-jail-or-hospital-dies-of-coronavirus
ApatheticNoMore
5-13-20, 9:45am
In multiple news conference I have heard Donald Trump say even one death from covid is too much. So your approach of trying to save everyone no matter how high risk or the costs to everyone else is certainly not unique.
You really think this is Donald Trump's policy? Donald Trump says a lot of things, 99.5% of which have no correspondence with shared reality. Back in the real world this isn't his approach, and it strikes me as nearly impossible to argue it is.
flowerseverywhere
5-13-20, 11:06am
A simple cloth mask is in essence creating "virtual distance". The point isn't that it is a Level A Hazmat suit.
A simple cloth mask adds several feet to the effective distance between you and another. Which is huge if you do the math, given the cubic nature of 3 dimensional space. (There are some other useful considerations involving air exchange rates in enclosed spaces).
Wearing a mask in circumstances where you can't maintain 6+ feet of distance is A Good Thing generally.
exactly why I wear a mask when I am very infrequently am out with any possibility of contact. I walk at 6 am to avoid people. Besides the obvious greater difficulty of swapping spit, masks make it more difficult to touch your nose and mouth which is another good thing. Also, I avoid any closed spaces where people are which seem to make things more hazardous. I’m willing to forgo picking out my own pineapple for a few months if it puts me at lower risk to contaminate others and doesn’t add to the burden placed on medical workers. They have been the true heroes and sometimes victims in all of this.
iris lilies
5-13-20, 11:26am
exactly why I wear a mask when I am very infrequently am out with any possibility of contact. I walk at 6 am to avoid people. Besides the obvious greater difficulty of swapping spit, masks make it more difficult to touch your nose and mouth which is another good thing. Also, I avoid any closed spaces where people are which seem to make things more hazardous. I’m willing to forgo picking out my own pineapple for a few months if it puts me at lower risk to contaminate others and doesn’t add to the burden placed on medical workers. They have been the true heroes and sometimes victims in all of this.
this is pretty much what I do, although I’ve not been successful in using shopping services. DH does shopping. I also don’t walk early to avoid people I’m always meeting people on the sidewalk but honestly everyone steps aside and it seems to me that 6 feet more or less are maintained.
I did observe one guy running at me spit on the ground on the sidewalk and I thought to myself well yeah OK I should really be keeping my shoes outside. In the early weeks of thisI did start a program to keep my shoes outside in that truck stuff in the house but I gave up on that. I do periodically put my slides-on shoes in the dishwasher
I’m a little ashamed to admit it, but during my tenure as a civil servant, the “one death is too many” platitude/argument was something of a joke. A politician or citizen would resort to it whenever they lacked the evidence to prove a point. Not being responsible for allocating limited resources or setting priorities, it nevertheless makes you sound caring and foresighted.
I remember once that our Sheriff was making a pitch for (fairly expensive) horse patrols in our county parks. A board member asked him what the record of crime in the parks was. Rather than admit it was fairly minimal, we were treated to an extended rant of the even one would be too many variety.
The corollary was the “how many people have to die before you do something” gambit. It was often associated with what we called “grieving mother syndrome”. The basic format was high school kid gets drunk and kills self and others by crashing into a tree or rolling his car. The mother than decides the kid’s death was due to the road’s design rather than the dear departed’s blood alcohol content. Tearful phone calls, public hearings and letters to the editor ensue. In some cases a project is authorized that takes precedence over correcting a much more dangerous situation. It was common to ask questions like “how many people have to die before you change that light bulb? “
One refreshing aspect of military service was when you asked that question, they could provide you with an estimate.
My mother has turned into a shopaholic. Since yesterday she has gone to at least 4 more stores. I tried to enlist my father in getting her to stay put but he said she has cabin fever and needs to get out. This mask thing has gotten people totally out of control. Before the mask mandate more people were staying home, now it is a free-for-all. The stores are more crowded than before including with many elderly. I guess it is a distraction from the anxiety of possibly dying to go places and do things.
Teacher Terry
5-13-20, 12:44pm
As a former social worker programs have requirements. You have to FINANCIALLY QUALIFY. Locally we are short of drivers because most of the volunteers are retired. I am done explaining this to you.
ApatheticNoMore
5-13-20, 12:53pm
My mother has turned into a shopaholic. Since yesterday she has gone to at least 4 more stores. I tried to enlist my father in getting her to stay put but he said she has cabin fever and needs to get out. This mask thing has gotten people totally out of control. Before the mask mandate more people were staying home, now it is a free-for-all. The stores are more crowded than before including with many elderly. I guess it is a distraction from the anxiety of possibly dying to go places and do things.
well what did she used to do, if it's socialize with the neighbors or something, maybe it would be better if she did that outside weather permitting and stood 6 (or 10 or 20 would be even better of course!) feet away or went to the park or something. Some risk maybe, but lower risk.
But I know my family (mom and immunocompromised sibling) were heading in this direction shopping more and more in pandemic, but I think that was mostly shortage fears since the height of it seemed to be reached in March before anyone was even wearing masks, and all my pleading "that virus is out there you know" did no good, they had to go to 4 stores a day. They might still but they hide it from me at this point as they laugh off my concern, I kind of don't want to know anymore since there is little I can do, but I think they have calmed down some on the shopping, as it was partly shortage fear driven. I ask what they want, they give me one or two things, and I think "you are making me go to the grocery for nothing at this point, as you are probably still going to go". I get the things, but it's a reason why I don't try to go every 2 weeks, I feel used.
I find the stores less crowded, people were panic buying early on period, and that was crowding everything like crazy. But I find the shoppers now frivolous, buying 3 or 10 items and stuff, look don't even tell me you are doing your weekly shopping at that point (much less 2 weeks or something), because I weekly shop and I know know you can't live on 10 items (yea sometimes I take out food, but that's maybe once a week at most and so no you can't live on 10 items! :~) ) You are just shopping for the heck of it. I pick one store a week and get a weeks worth of food.
One refreshing aspect of military service was when you asked that question, they could provide you with an estimate.
I got tarred and feathered a few weeks back when we were preparing some models for resuming business in the County. Seems a spreadsheet that includes the statistical value of human life, along with demographic calculations for the population profile of the county, and then comparing the economic activity at risk is considered "insensitive".
iris lilies
5-13-20, 2:30pm
I’m a little ashamed to admit it, but during my tenure as a civil servant, the “one death is too many” platitude/argument was something of a joke. A politician or citizen would resort to it whenever they lacked the evidence to prove a point. Not being responsible for allocating limited resources or setting priorities, it nevertheless makes you sound caring and foresighted.
I remember once that our Sheriff was making a pitch for (fairly expensive) horse patrols in our county parks. A board member asked him what the record of crime in the parks was. Rather than admit it was fairly minimal, we were treated to an extended rant of the even one would be too many variety.
The corollary was the “how many people have to die before you do something” gambit. It was often associated with what we called “grieving mother syndrome”. The basic format was high school kid gets drunk and kills self and others by crashing into a tree or rolling his car. The mother than decides the kid’s death was due to the road’s design rather than the dear departed’s blood alcohol content. Tearful phone calls, public hearings and letters to the editor ensue. In some cases a project is authorized that takes precedence over correcting a much more dangerous situation. It was common to ask questions like “how many people have to die before you change that light bulb? “
One refreshing aspect of military service was when you asked that question, they could provide you with an estimate.
You cold hearted bastard you! ;)
One of many private thoughts I’ve had about the Covid epidemic is I am relieved that it is killing old people and not babies and children. The handwringing and hysteria would be several notches higher if the latter.
If we think “how many people have to DIE!!!???” is a clarion call to action, wait until we hear “How many CHILDREN have to DIE!!!???” Oy vey, no politician can surmount that one.
Teacher Terry
5-13-20, 2:31pm
I too am glad it’s not killing babies and kids.
ApatheticNoMore
5-13-20, 2:39pm
I have no special affection for babies and kids, they mean nothing more than any other person to me. Why should they?
I have no special affection for babies and kids, they mean nothing more than any other person to me. Why should they?
Babies and kids can be replaced using generally-unskilled labor.
Adults represent a substantial investment in education and training, and are expensive to replace.
Until they hit retirement, then onto the ice floe with them.
frugal-one
5-13-20, 2:49pm
In multiple news conference I have heard Donald Trump say even one death from covid is too much. So your approach of trying to save everyone no matter how high risk or the costs to everyone else is certainly not unique.
ETA Do you remember bubble boy, who couldn't risk bumping into hard surfaces or he would bleed to death? Maybe we should reconfigure our whole society because he would like to leave home. Maybe even in hot weather we should all walk around in thick uncomfortable quilted padding to protect him. We can't risk losing even one life, there is no cost/benefit analysis to be done.
Weird and not accurate analogy. The whole society is not refigured just for one segment of it (as you keep insinuating). As you may have read or heard, even small children are now being infected by the virus as are all ages of people. The purpose is not to overload our few hospitals that are not equipped to handle the deluge. As far as I am concerned ... end of discussion. I truly don't care what you think.
ETA: You are the one siding with trump... "open everything up and save our economy". Doubt that that is going to work. Many will go on as they have now. That is, self distancing and going for groceries and necessities.
iris lilies
5-13-20, 2:51pm
Babies and kids can be replaced using generally-unskilled labor.
Adults represent a substantial investment in education and training, and are expensive to replace.
Until they hit retirement, then onto the ice floe with them.
oh hell yes!
our own Jane pointed this out many years ago, and it makes me laugh in a rueful way: a truism of our biology is that post-menopausal women gain fat around our middle sections because the tribe won’t feed us in a famine, young moms and their progeny get the rations.
I’m a little ashamed to admit it, but during my tenure as a civil servant, the “one death is too many” platitude/argument was something of a joke. A politician or citizen would resort to it whenever they lacked the evidence to prove a point. Not being responsible for allocating limited resources or setting priorities, it nevertheless makes you sound caring and foresighted.
I remember once that our Sheriff was making a pitch for (fairly expensive) horse patrols in our county parks. A board member asked him what the record of crime in the parks was. Rather than admit it was fairly minimal, we were treated to an extended rant of the even one would be too many variety.
The corollary was the “how many people have to die before you do something” gambit. It was often associated with what we called “grieving mother syndrome”. The basic format was high school kid gets drunk and kills self and others by crashing into a tree or rolling his car. The mother than decides the kid’s death was due to the road’s design rather than the dear departed’s blood alcohol content. Tearful phone calls, public hearings and letters to the editor ensue. In some cases a project is authorized that takes precedence over correcting a much more dangerous situation. It was common to ask questions like “how many people have to die before you change that light bulb? “
One refreshing aspect of military service was when you asked that question, they could provide you with an estimate.
I guess this is all true. But at some point the decision has to be made that a certain level of deaths is too many. Personally I'd say that 85,000 in two months is too many, especially when the projections are that by June 1 the number will likely have climbed to 3,000 per day. Especially when a competent early response, such as occurred in South Korea, could have prevented the need to shut everything down in the drastic way that we have had to do.
oh hell yes!
our own Jane pointed this out many years ago, and it makes me laugh in a rueful way: a truism of our biology is that post-menopausal women gain fat around our middle sections because the tribe won’t feed us in a famine, young moms and their progeny get the rations.
Fortunately, it's hard to find a convenient ice floe these days...
Fortunately, it's hard to find a convenient ice floe these days...
Elders For Global Warming!
Teacher Terry
5-13-20, 4:14pm
APN, maybe because babies and kids have their whole lives ahead of them. Because if you ever have known someone that’s lost it child they are never the same. Nothing is worse.
As a former social worker programs have requirements. You have to FINANCIALLY QUALIFY. Locally we are short of drivers because most of the volunteers are retired. I am done explaining this to you.
You still haven't learned that Y knows everything and the rest of us with experience are idiots who don't understand?>:(
Weird and not accurate analogy. The whole society is not refigured just for one segment of it (as you keep insinuating). As you may have read or heard, even small children are now being infected by the virus
The instances of children sickening are very rare, less than 100 nationwide the last I heard, with 3 deaths. But you know, even to avoid one death we have to trash our economy. But hey, so what if the economy suffers and children, already overrepresented amongst the poor, suffer more. It's quantity not quality of life that counts. I am guessing you are also anti-abortion.
ApatheticNoMore
5-13-20, 4:56pm
funny how noone mentions how other countries not only go this under control (although they do have to be careful as there are resurgences) but they didn't trash their economy, because they protected jobs (paid money through jobs and furloughed people), and suspended bills, and gave people money to tide them through.
None of which is possible here, because it's the poorest country in the world. So sad, so unfortunate, for a country to be so poor. Exceptional only in it's awfulness as if anyone EVEN WANTED exceptional, noone but full-of-themselves pundits give a rip about that. All anyone wants is COMPETENT, bare base minimum, not full on 3rd world or worse, but can't ask that from our leaders.
You still haven't learned that Y knows everything and the rest of us with experience are idiots who don't understand?>:(
Here are the facts on deliveries to seniors in Teacher Terry's state of Nevada:
https://www.kunr.org/post/elder-nevadans-isolated-covid-19-can-get-free-food-and-medicine-delivery-check-ins#stream/0
People nationwide can call the 211 number they list for assistance.
No one's freedom of religion is being impinged upon--maybe freedom of assembly--but churches can hold virtual services and/or broadcast sermons. With luck, this is a temporary situation. One of those defiant pastors* met his maker a little sooner than he anticipated.
*https://kutv.com/news/coronavirus/defiant-pastor-who-vowed-to-hold-services-until-in-jail-or-hospital-dies-of-coronavirus
If people believe as per the Bible they are not to neglect assembling together then forbidding them from doing so does infringe on their constitutional rights. It doesn't matter if you agree with their religion. A similar example is the use of peyote. The government considered it dangerous but courts ruled it is permissible due to freedom of religion.
well what did she used to do, if it's socialize with the neighbors or something, maybe it would be better if she did that outside weather permitting and stood 6 (or 10 or 20 would be even better of course!) feet away or went to the park or something. Some risk maybe, but lower risk.
But I know my family (mom and immunocompromised sibling) were heading in this direction shopping more and more in pandemic, but I think that was mostly shortage fears since the height of it seemed to be reached in March before anyone was even wearing masks, and all my pleading "that virus is out there you know" did no good, they had to go to 4 stores a day. They might still but they hide it from me at this point as they laugh off my concern, I kind of don't want to know anymore since there is little I can do, but I think they have calmed down some on the shopping, as it was partly shortage fear driven. I ask what they want, they give me one or two things, and I think "you are making me go to the grocery for nothing at this point, as you are probably still going to go". I get the things, but it's a reason why I don't try to go every 2 weeks, I feel used.
I find the stores less crowded, people were panic buying early on period, and that was crowding everything like crazy. But I find the shoppers now frivolous, buying 3 or 10 items and stuff, look don't even tell me you are doing your weekly shopping at that point (much less 2 weeks or something), because I weekly shop and I know know you can't live on 10 items (yea sometimes I take out food, but that's maybe once a week at most and so no you can't live on 10 items! :~) ) You are just shopping for the heck of it. I pick one store a week and get a weeks worth of food.
ANM the loss of church services has affected her. She does walk with a friend daily, each of them on opposite sides of the road. She also has many long phone conversations, no issues with hearing, so she easily could have called the store to see if the seed potatoes were in instead of going to the store.
It sounds like your family is similar to mine except for my DB and DSIL who have not gone to the store in 8 weeks since she has an underlying condition. They are just eating what is on their pantry and garden.
Elders For Global Warming!
Glass half full! :~)
If people believe as per the Bible they are not to neglect assembling together then forbidding them from doing so does infringe on their constitutional rights. It doesn't matter if you agree with their religion.
So if I am a Thuggee and worship Kali, my rights are infringed if I am forbidden from murdering travellers?
Rights are a balance, the Supreme Court has discussed before the need to weigh public safety, especially during emergencies, with rights.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/197/11
Babies and kids can be replaced using generally-unskilled labor.
Adults represent a substantial investment in education and training, and are expensive to replace.
Until they hit retirement, then onto the ice floe with them.
If we view life valuation of any given clump of cells in strictly utilitarian terms, I think we would need to look beyond the investment in training. Is an associate professor of gender studies worth more than an electrical engineer if we need to start tossing people out of the lifeboat? Expensive training isn’t necessarily valuable training. I can think of HVAC techs or butchers I would value over a PhD in musicology if it came to a choice.
Is an associate professor of gender studies worth more than an electrical engineer if we need to start tossing people out of the lifeboat?
This is why I have tried to master a wide range of skills over the decades, and own several of my own lifeboats.
This is why I have tried to master a wide range of skills over the decades, and own several of my own lifeboats.
Just be sure you put to sea before the commissars begin allocating spaces.
frugal-one
5-13-20, 7:18pm
The instances of children sickening are very rare, less than 100 nationwide the last I heard, with 3 deaths. But you know, even to avoid one death we have to trash our economy. But hey, so what if the economy suffers and children, already overrepresented amongst the poor, suffer more. It's quantity not quality of life that counts. I am guessing you are also anti-abortion.
You haven’t a clue. And, you guess wrong.
iris lilies
5-13-20, 8:55pm
Here's a few questions I've pondered.
Why do you saute onions first when they will go into a dish that is going to cook anyway.
Why do celebrities who most likely are well set with millions and millions endorse cheesy products. Like William Shatner, former Commander of the Starship Enterprise promoting CPAP cleaning machines machines, or Joe Namoth selling reverse mortgages, or Alex Trebek and life insurance.
Is forcing some businesses and public areas closed due to CV-19 risk really against the constitution, or is that just something the protesters totally fabricate.
now on to Roger’s important questions:
1) As an onion lover I would say that sautéing onions releases their sugars and heightens their taste in a way that other cooking does not. . Not sure, just a guess.
2) I think your premise is entirely wrong about William Shatner realizing he’s endorsing a cheesy product. I’m not sure William Shatner has standards of taste, he is cast as a bit of a figure of fun over the years anyway and I don’t think he minds that because as long as his name is in the spotlight he doesn’t care how it is in the spotlight. Also you assume he has money but who knows what his real balance sheet looks like, so many of these people are idiots about spending their money.
3) Only the Supreme Court decide what is against the constitution but I would think there’s plenty of case law that supports closing businesses due to public health risk. I suppose it could be argued is it really a health risk?
Edited to say: Roger and I are not involved, really! The dictation software is so stupid and I don’t check it carefully.
now on to Roger’s important questions:
1) I’m your lover ...
I think we just learned something really surprising about a couple of our members! :D
iris lilies
5-13-20, 9:49pm
I think we just learned something really surprising about a couple of our members! :D
Ha ha. Poor Roger. No we are not involved, the dictation software screwed up what I meant to say!
Teacher Terry
5-13-20, 10:06pm
IL too funny ��!!
Ha ha. Poor Roger. No we are not involved, the dictation software screwed up what I meant to say!
That dictation software! It’s just as crazy as autocorrect for us Typers... 😜
happystuff
5-14-20, 7:09am
ROFLOL.
happystuff
5-14-20, 7:12am
Why is something that is advertised or supposed to be sooooo easy, turn into the biggest nightmare and end up costing twice as much as originally planned??
Oh, I got my new shed. It's up. I'll leave it at that. :|(
(LOL. If I don't laugh about it... )
I think we just learned something really surprising about a couple of our members! :D
Hilarious! Thanks for a good laugh to start off the day. :~)
I think we just learned something really surprising about a couple of our members! :D
Before vicious gossip gets the better of some folks, I'd like to clarify that IL and I are just friends :).
OK, now that we have heard about the covid conspiracy, we now have to deal with a 'dictation' conspiracy. What is the world coming to? lol
frugal-one
5-14-20, 1:27pm
Hilarious! Thanks for a good laugh to start off the day. :~)
Yes.. thank you!!!
iris lilies
5-14-20, 1:50pm
OK, now that we have heard about the covid conspiracy, we now have to deal with a 'dictation' conspiracy. What is the world coming to? lol
It was Siri’s sister who wants to link me and Roger. We are innocent pawns in her Machiavellian game!
I think we just learned something really surprising about a couple of our members! :D
That is the funniest thing I've seen in a long time!!!
frugal-one
5-14-20, 4:01pm
Please explain..
We are borrowing money for ourselves (from whom? China?) .... and yet giving money to Iran.
Please explain..
We are borrowing money for ourselves (from whom? China?) .... and yet giving money to Iran.
Please explain.... what is "money"?
That first comment is mind-boggling to me. The mask isn't permanently affixed to one's face, after all. It's generally not worn at home, and with luck, the pandemic will be over in time. Cluelessness? Selfishness?
Commenter: David Curtis
The commenter has declared there is no conflict of interests.
Comment: This article completely fails to consider the costs of mask-wearing. There's a reason why we don't do this. It impairs our quality of life. We like to feel fresh air on our faces. We like to go out and see people. We like to be able to talk to people unencumbered. We like to be able to see people's expressions, their smiles.
Sure, make a judgement about the relative benefits and harms of mask-wearing. But don't purport to be writing some kind of rational appraisal while completely ignoring the obvious loss of quality of life which universal, permanent mask-wearing would entail.
The pandemic may not be over in time. Today the World Health Organization said it may not go away. They compared it to HIV which has been with us for 4 decades now. Do you really think people will want to wear masks for 40 years?
I think we'll find ways to cope. Effective treatments, social distancing, masks in crowds, etc. If enough people participate, the infection rate will go down. That's the way it worked for HIV, after all.
The pandemic may not be over in time. Today the World Health Organization said it may not go away. They compared it to HIV which has been with us for 4 decades now. Do you really think people will want to wear masks for 40 years?
People have been wearing condoms for 40 years, getting regular STD testing, and discussing sexual health history with their partners so that informed consent can happen.
Well, the responsible people.
ApatheticNoMore
5-14-20, 9:20pm
It seems to me if the issue is just protecting others, there will be at home tests eventually, but public places may still require masks, but maybe not visiting someone, depending.
Now there are reports of people getting infected through their eyes. Face shields next? Followed by hazmat suits for everyone? The part of the body that sweats the most is the feet. Maybe just to be safe we should outlaw sandals this summer. If it saves just one life, it's worth it, right?
Now there are reports of people getting infected through their eyes. Face shields next? Followed by hazmat suits for everyone? The part of the body that sweats the most is the feet. Maybe just to be safe we should outlaw sandals this summer. If it saves just one life, it's worth it, right?
I don't think you understand the mask thing, or perhaps you do, and are being deliberately difficult.
Bae, here is the story on infection through the eyes. I saw the story on TV. It is being reported in numerous news outlets.
https://nypost.com/2020/05/14/infectious-disease-expert-says-he-caught-coronavirus-through-his-eyes/
Bae, here is the story on infection through the eyes. I saw the story on TV. It is being reported in numerous news outlets.
https://nypost.com/2020/05/14/infectious-disease-expert-says-he-caught-coronavirus-through-his-eyes/
I am aware that you can be infected through the eyes. (We've known this for months.) As I mentioned, I am trained and equipped to handle Ebola.
However, COVID-19 doesn't seem to spread *from* the eyes in casual social settings.
The point of the mask is to serve as a damper on spread, not by protecting the wearer from other people so much, but by protecting other people from the mask wearer.
There is no need to wear a HAZMAT suit to protect others from you, according to the best available science at this moment.
So, take your hyperbole and put it in your salad spinner :-)
How do you define casual social settings? To include or exclude airplanes?
How do you define casual social settings? To include or exclude airplanes?
I presume you are saying "Omg, this guy got it through the eyes on an airplane".
Did you read my actual words above?
Is there evidence he was infected *from someone else's eyes* on that trip?
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
So I take it Bae that you are only interested in protecting other people not yourself. So long as you don't infect others it doesn't matter if you are protected. No need for a face shield to protect yourself from infection through your eyes. We are all just to be altruists with no self-regard.
The pandemic may not be over in time. Today the World Health Organization said it may not go away. They compared it to HIV which has been with us for 4 decades now. Do you really think people will want to wear masks for 40 years?
My perspective. I figured out I was gay when I was about 15 years old, in 1982. At the same time AIDS was being reported as a thing that was known to kill gay men, seemingly at random. Not wanting to end up dead I waited before becoming sexually active. And waited. And waited. And waited. Finally, when I was in my mid-20s I accepted what was then becoming widely accepted advice that condoms weren't perfect but were very helpful in reducing the transmission of HIV and started dating but insisting on "safe sex" with everyone. If I have to wear masks and never, or at least very rarely, go to bars and restaurants for years to keep from getting covid I will.* Because I REALLY don't want to get infected with this. It took years for scientists and doctors to get a handle on HIV. It will potentially take years with Covid. For all we know Covid may turn out to be as deadly, long-term, as HIV. I'd rather not be one of the people who learns that the hard way.
*Unfortunately, unlike with HIV and condoms, I can't insist that everyone who comes near me wear a mask. I can only hope that people will feel some sort of societal duty to not put others at risk. But I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen. Instead I guess I'll just have to hold my breath whenever I'm around someone that shows me through their actions that they are unconcerned with other people's health and safety.
Why would anyone be surprised that Covid can infect a person via their eyes. Eyes are one of the mucous membranes, like the nose and mouth, that have been mentioned for some time now as a path for the virus to enter one's body. All this is is yet another reason that potentially infected people, which is to say ALL OF US, need to wear a damn mask to reduce the amount of potentially infected droplets being spewed out out of our mouths and noses into the air being shared by ourselves and other people.
So I take it Bae that you are only interested in protecting other people not yourself. So long as you don't infect others it doesn't matter if you are protected. No need for a face shield to protect yourself from infection through your eyes. We are all just to be altruists with no self-regard.
Yppej, pleeeease give it a break!!!! Each person is trying to cope with the stress of the pandemic. Don't add more here as well.
ApatheticNoMore
5-14-20, 10:22pm
I do wonder if wearing sunglasses or googles or something, as well as a mask, helps.
So I take it Bae that you are only interested in protecting other people not yourself. So long as you don't infect others it doesn't matter if you are protected. No need for a face shield to protect yourself from infection through your eyes. We are all just to be altruists with no self-regard.
OK, I am adjusting settings now. You are deliberately misreading my words, and you know it.
I wear full PPE when seeing patients. I've mentioned this. I don't wear full PPE when out bicycling to the top of the mountain here. I wear CDC recommended PPE when called for, where called for.
Because, well, I science.
I do wonder if wearing sunglasses or googles or something, as well as a mask, helps.
Depends on what you are exposing yourself to, and how. I wear eye protection when in concentrated spaces, because I don't trust that some half-wit without a mask won't cough on me.
Some people have years and years of training and experience with this stuff. Apparently we are The Bad Guy to some.
I wish those people well in their foolishness.
ApatheticNoMore
5-14-20, 10:29pm
Yppej, pleeeease give it a break!!!! Each person is trying to cope with the stress of the pandemic. Don't add more here as well.
word
Depends on what you are exposing yourself to, and how. I wear eye protection when in concentrated spaces, because I don't trust that some half-wit without a mask won't cough on me.
Some people have years and years of training and experience with this stuff. Apparently we are The Bad Guy to some.
I wish those people well in their foolishness.
Indeed. Different precautions make sense for different scenarios. I have a hospice nurse friend who has had several covid clients. She learned with the first one that when using her phone to give them FaceTime goodbye time with their family that she needs to hold it far enough away that the client can’t grab it and ‘kiss her family’.
Indeed. Different precautions make sense for different scenarios. I have a hospice nurse friend who has had several covid clients. She learned with the first one that when using her phone to give them FaceTime goodbye time with their family that she needs to hold it far enough away that the client can’t grab it and ‘kiss her family’.
Luckily you can reasonably decontaminate many modern smartphones :-)
Teacher Terry
5-14-20, 11:27pm
Bae, I appreciate all that you and many on the front lines do.
Luckily you can reasonably decontaminate many modern smartphones :-)
Yes. And that’s exactly what she did. But she didnt want to have to make that effort, or take the time, a second time.
frugal-one
5-15-20, 3:02am
Please explain.... what is "money"?
Misquoted... should say borrowing and giving..??? See news articles whereby US keeps "borrowing" and then giving financial aid to other countries.
The idea that people only wear PPE to protect others defies common sense. For instance, medical personnel obviously wear it to protect themselves, so they can remain healthy, continue to treat patients, and because they might want to live and be healthy, and if they have families not leave them grieving.
rosarugosa
5-15-20, 6:04am
Bae: "So, take your hyperbole and put it in your salad spinner," has to be one of my favorite lines ever!
Thanks for the https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v1 link. Very interesting reading, and it certainly gives me enough info to feel confident that mask wearing is the right thing to do. I do not understand the political polarization around masks. All the medical or scientific info I see recommends masks. I'm not seeing anything from those who are anti-mask to make me think otherwise. Yes, they are somewhat unpleasant and uncomfortable, but life kind of sucks like that sometimes. I don't think anyone is trying to make the case that masks are delightful, just that the good they do is worth the tradeoff in temporary discomfort.
The idea that people only wear PPE to protect others defies common sense. For instance, medical personnel obviously wear it to protect themselves, so they can remain healthy, continue to treat patients, and because they might want to live and be healthy, and if they have families not leave them grieving.
There’s a difference between PPE that medical personnel and first responders wear and cloth face masks that regular people wear. But you know that and find pleasure in trolling us because of your hatred of wearing a mask.
There’s a difference between PPE that medical personnel and first responders wear and cloth face masks that regular people wear. But you know that and find pleasure in trolling us because of your hatred of wearing a mask.
It's okay for medical personnel to protect themselves by covering their faces, but not non-medical personnel. Got it.
I posted this on another thread, but I think it's worth another post:
Speaking of masks, a company local to Portland (for decades) offers both DIY instructions and pre-made masks for sale:
https://starks.com/vacuum-bag-surgical-masks/
I have no interest in this other than having bought a Kirby from them back in the seventies...I am ordering one of their masks, and I have vacuum filters specially to make masks, in case I ever get the urge.
iris lilies
5-15-20, 1:24pm
I'm an introvert. I *can* survive for days at a time without going out.
However, over the past few years I had cultivated the habit of bicycling down to the village once a day, and spending at least a couple of minutes talking face-to-face with an actual human being, with my goal being to learn one new thing about them. I find in the New Era I really miss this simple practice.
I still go out to walk the dog, hike, and bicycle, but it's not really the same.
COVID-19 and introverts report:
Two days ago I went to the iris garden of my friends. They have 700 iris cultivars. We walked around outside and kept our distance but had spirited conversations about Iris.
This infusion of human contact got me so jazzed up, I could not get to sleep until 3 o’clock in the morning.
I don’t know if this is a good thing or a bad thing, I’m still pondering it.
COVID-19 and introverts report:
Two days ago I went to the iris garden of my friends. They have 700 iris cultivars. We walked around outside and kept our distance but had spirited conversations about Iris.
This infusion of human contact got me so jazzed up, I could not get to sleep until 3 o’clock in the morning.
I don’t know if this is a good thing or a bad thing, I’m still pondering it.
Are you an extrovert or an introvert? I think of you as an extrovert but I could be wrong. Maybe your response to the visit was just joy over injecting yourself back into a life you love.
I find I'm doing a lot more commenting on FB posts, which is strange for me. I really think I'm seeking a substitute for conversation, and I definitely am an introvert. One good thing is I have a great outlet for conversation with my son, who is a huge extrovert and talker. Previous to COVID, when he would call, I'd have to chalk off an hour at least, but now that he's living with us, I get a lot of opportunity for conversation, and my husband, the extrovert, gets annoyed and calls us Chatty Cathy and Chatty C___ and escapes to his workshop. His type of desired interaction is to be with groups of people he can regale. Serious conversation one-on-one, not so much.
It's interesting to observe our individual reactions to being isolated and how our social needs are being met (or not).
iris lilies
5-15-20, 3:01pm
No I am definitely an introvert. I’m just a loudmouth on the Internet.
No I am definitely an introvert. I’m just a loudmouth on the Internet.
haha!!! Thank God for the internet, where we introverts can mouth off!!
Teacher Terry
5-15-20, 3:14pm
We are starting to get together outside with 2 other couples all keeping our distance. It’s been a welcome relief. With my husband going back to work next week no reason for me to be totally isolated anymore. I plan to stay out of stores for the most part.
Met the new neighbor today while I was mowing the rental property. No masks on anybody; we didn't figure we'd run into anyone. She stuck out her hand to say hello and, about mid-shake, both of us figured out we were not social distancing. Old habits die hard. We chatted for a couple of minutes and then she went back to moving in and I quietly went back to my place to wash my hands before I resumed mowing the lawn.
This is the third residence move among people I know (well, now that I've met her, I guess) and it has not gotten less odd any time.
People have been wearing condoms for 40 years, getting regular STD testing, and discussing sexual health history with their partners so that informed consent can happen.
Well, the responsible people.
I guess all the biological parents in this world for the past four decades are irresponsible, because in order to have a child they weren't using a condom.
ToomuchStuff
5-17-20, 10:46am
Someone seems to be missing Ultralight.:laff:
iris lilies
5-17-20, 11:22am
Someone seems to be missing Ultralight.:laff:haha, yeah, maybe.
I guess all the biological parents in this world for the past four decades are irresponsible, because in order to have a child they weren't using a condom.
Come now....
iris lilies
6-3-20, 7:21am
I am trying again to understand: keyless car ignition starters.
Why are they better again? What distinct advantage does this have over a key?
I am trying again to understand: keyless car ignition starters.
Why are they better again? What distinct advantage does this have over a key?
One less thing for a person to carry?? I don't get it either. Imagine if something went wrong with the various keyless features. I can only imagine how much it would cost to repair.
What distinct advantage does this have over a key?
When your hands are full you don't have to dig into your pocket to get a key to open the door. You can permanently leave your key in your purse and not have to dig it out each and every time. When its dark and you are in a sketchy area, you can get into your car quicker rather than fumble with your purse. Just a few advantages. I wou;dn't have paid extra for keyless, but I enjoy the ease.
Except you have to remember where the key actually is. I went with my husband just after I got this car to pick up a nephew at the airport. I like to meet family at security so husband dropped me off and went to remote park until we called him. Except he turned the car off while he was waiting and I still had the key with me in my purse at the airport. Ooops.
When its dark and you are in a sketchy area, you can get into your car quicker rather than fumble with your purse. Just a few advantages. I wou;dn't have paid extra for keyless, but I enjoy the ease.
Not saying there aren't advantages, especially full hands, but...
If I'm in a "sketchy area", my keys are in my hand before I leave whatever building I am in. Also, the key fob button unlocks the door before I reach the car and there is also has a "panic" button on the fob to sound a very loud alarm. Also, if I am nervous/afraid of attack on the way to my car, my keys can become a somewhat defensive weapon when I interlace them between my fingers.
iris lilies
6-3-20, 9:52am
When your hands are full you don't have to dig into your pocket to get a key to open the door. You can permanently leave your key in your purse and not have to dig it out each and every time. When its dark and you are in a sketchy area, you can get into your car quicker rather than fumble with your purse. Just a few advantages. I wou;dn't have paid extra for keyless, but I enjoy the ease.
Except you have to remember where the key actually is. I went with my husband just after I got this car to pick up a nephew at the airport. I like to meet family at security so husband dropped me off and went to remote park until we called him. Except he turned the car off while he was waiting and I still had the key with me in my purse at the airport. Ooops.
My keyless wonder does not automatically open car doors when its key fob is near. It DOES automatically lock doors when key fob walks away.So, I would still have to dig in my theoretical purse for the device to press the right button that opens the car doors.
I don’t carry a purse. My car key and house key is on a ring around my neck ( for my old car.) Now with the keyless wonder I have it in a little pouch around my neck because I couldn’t find a lanyard that would go through its little slot, and besides, I have to carry the garage door opener in that same pouch.
So far I see only disadvantages to keyless fobs: instruction manual said I should have the repair shop replace a battery. Oh yeah, let’s make an appointment to replace a goddamn battery. I was unable to pry the thing open without fear of breaking it. Fortunately DH had the right tool and careful approach And he was able to open it and replace the battery. But we it just little old me, I would’ve had to take it to the damn shop. Although I will say I called the Fiat dealer and asked if a car salesman could replace this for me, surely I don’t have to make an appointment? And the sales manager said they would be glad to do it for me to come in anytime. That requires a 20 mile trip up to the edge of the county, tho.
I don’t even want to think about how much it cost to replace the thing.
And I don’t even wanna think about having to start the car without it. There is a complex ritual that will start the car. I’ve read about it in the manual, but I don’t remember what the ritual is.
instruction manual said I should have the repair shop replace a battery. Oh yeah, let’s make an appointment to replace a goddamn battery.
I found instructions on YouTube on how to open mine (not keyless, but a fob) and have replaced the battery many times. Now I can do it from memory. Given what the dealership would charge you for that battery, the effort was well worth it. Either DH will remember how to do it next time or you'll find instructions available on the Internet.
I don’t even want to think about how much it cost to replace the thing.
Through the dealership, at least a couple hundred dollars. It may be cheaper to buy a blank on ebay/Amazon or some on-line site that specializes in such things. On some cars, it is possible to pair the fob with the car through some arcane sequence of unlocking and ignition key twisting and sacrifices to the deities; other cars will require a trip to the dealer. My car is old enough that the little Bop-It game of touch-this-touch-that works. But my car is old.
Teacher Terry
6-3-20, 10:16am
My 2008 Corolla doesn’t even have a remote. My 1999 Volvo did. Our cars have such low miles I doubt we will need a new car for decades.
early morning
6-3-20, 12:17pm
My car came with two keys and two fobs. When one fob died, I just used the other. DH was obsessed with fixing the dead one. He got it open, but the new battery didn't work. He stopped by a dealership we pass sometimes, and they replaced the battery for free. On a 13 year old car that we bought from a different dealership. I was impressed.
My husband has remote key fobs and when the batteries die, we go to the Battery Store, which does it much, much cheaper than the dealership, and they will check it for you and make sure it works before you leave.
My car is like Terry's, pre key fob, and no crank down windows.
I love it!
iris lilies
6-3-20, 12:52pm
For the record, the Fiat dealer told me that if I bring in my own battery they would do the work for free.
I replaced the battery in my key fob last summer. Took less than 5 minutes to read the instructions, unscrew, replace and rescrew. It was a common battery that I already had on hand (CR2032, which my hubby uses on his bicycle lights).
iris lilies
6-3-20, 2:28pm
I replaced the battery in my key fob last summer. Took less than 5 minutes to read the instructions, unscrew, replace and rescrew. It was a common battery that I already had on hand (CR2032, which my hubby uses on his bicycle lights).
I would prefer screws. There’s no screws in my key fob, it has little plastic pins that you have to carefully avoid when you’re prying off the top.
and no crank down windows.
Best little car I've ever owned, to date, was a 2000 Plymouth Neon that we literally bought from the little old lady that went to our church. Took it to our mechanic for a once-over before purchasing and they were surprised to see that the front windows were electric and the back windows were crank!
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