Smallest Space Lived in Happily

[Teacher Terry]

Quite by accident on Monday I found out my husband was cheating on me. This is not the first time but it’s the last. Not only did he put me at risk for STD’s but also the virus. Decided considering the situation I would tell him on Xmas eve that my gift is a divorce. I am downsizing to a condo and selling the house. I like security buildings so that narrows the search considerably. I lived in one that was 869 sq ft when I moved here 24 years ago. It was a 2 bedroom 1 bath. Real estate has skyrocketed which is good on the selling side but not so much the buying. So my choices seem to be live in a really nice one with a view of the mountains ( 1 bedroom-532 sq ft) for around 200k or going back to my original situation for the same price. Down side is the ceilings are low and you only have one window in the bedrooms and a slider in the living room. In the first building the floors start on 3 and you have a entire wall of glass in the living room and bedroom so tons of light. Both are desirable locations close to everything. I don’t really get many overnight guests anymore and they could get a hotel room. My youngest son said he will sleep on the couch when visiting.

So what are the pluses and minuses of small living and how did it work out for you? Any advice appreciated. Catherine I know you seem to be happy in your small house. I absolutely don’t want a house. The places I have looked at online all have balconies and patios which is important and take 2 small dogs which I intend to write into the purchase contract as well as verify in writing from the association. Besides my real kids my fur kids are most important in my life. Good thing I have been downsizing the past 25 years but if I go into the smaller one it will mean extreme measures although even the bigger one will require it to. What say ye old wise ones:))

[happystuff]

I'm so sorry, TT. I have no advice on the smaller housing as - while I'm prepping for such a move - I'm not there yet.

Hugs and I hope all goes well in this transitional point in your life.

[Teacher Terry]

Thanks Happy.

[Oddball]

Sorry about your situation. I'd go for the nicer but smaller place. Main challenge is storage. Without a garage, you'll have to store stuff offsite or get rid of it. I've lived happily in 350SF but had some shared garage space for storage. Smallest without storage has been 500-600SF. Largest place was a 3BR house, around 1,100SF, with a double garage. Way too big, much wasted space. I prefer quality over quantity. I'd choose the one with all the windows.

[Teacher Terry]

I definitely won’t pay for storage. It will fit or be gone. My previous condo had a closet on the patio but I didn’t use it. Not sure if the nice ones have that. The biggest house I lived in was 2k sq ft with 5 people. Right now 2 in 1400.

[SteveinMN]

I'm sorry you've ended up in this situation, Terry.

When my ex and I separated, I moved out of our 3400-square-foot townhome (this was before simple living) to a 500-600-square-foot efficiency apartment (living room, kitchen, dining nook, bathroom, one big closet). There was a storage locker in the basement that was maybe the size of a half bathroom. I had a futon that did double duty as a bed and sofa. I bought one of those wire basket things for use as a dresser. And I spent a lot of time moving one thing to get to another because things got stacked and, sometimes, pushed to the back of whatever storage there was. It worked. The only thing I really didn't like was having to park on the street, particularly during snow emergencies when I had to find another place (typically a couple of blocks away) to park for the night and dig the car out the next morning.

I loved living there. They had renovated the kitchen so the fridge actually was in the kitchen (saw lots of old apartments where the fridge was wherever they could stuff it, even if it wasn't quite near the kitchen). There was counter space. There were three-wire outlets, and enough of them. The bathroom was big enough and easy to keep warm in winter. The noise level was acceptable. It's in a great neighborhood and it was easy to walk just about any place I wanted to go and not far from work.

Thing is, I did not want to "cocoon" in my apartment. I didn't want to be so comfortable in my apartment that I never went anywhere besides work. I wanted to meet new people and I knew sure as anything I was not going to meet anyone inside my apartment. So having a very small, easy to clean, relatively inexpensive place that was principally a dorm/place to clean up/store my stuff worked fine for me. I still miss living in that neighborhood but I could not afford to buy what I have here now and I'm not that a big fan of old houses (the primary housing stock in that neighborhood). But, for lots of reasons beyond the wrenching process of divorce, I enjoyed iiving there very much. It was very freeing.

[catherine]

OMG, I am so very sorry, TT. The 2020 calamities never end. :(

In answer to your question, that is a very tough decision. I do fine with 1-2 other people in my 680 sq. ft. (2 others because my son comes up here frequently and since he's been furloughed, he's here almost all the time).

I would go where your heart sings--so if you love the nice one with the view, go for it. I do have to say I like having 2 bedrooms for practical purposes, but you are the one living there, and as you said, guests will be infrequent, so choose where YOU want to be, especially now. Which environment will nurture your soul?

To your point about small condos vs small houses, I love the freedom of going outside easily. I have a friend who lives in New York on the 8th floor of a highrise and it's a very small place. I could never do that--take an elevator to a small courtyard.

So in your case, I think it's important that you have a nice balcony, and a nice view is icing on the cake. Those two things will make the place seem larger.

Are there storage units in the building? I've found the Pareto Principle to be absolutely true: 80% of the time I use 20% of my belongings, so if you just identify that 20% for you, and just move those things into your condo you'll be fine. I was just thinking the other day how living small TRULY makes you evaluate on a day to day basis the utility of the stuff in it. My house used to be a total mess at Christmas time, with all the people and all the gifts and all the junk and two rooms would wind up junk rooms until February when I would finally deal with the clutter. My house now is one-third the size and this Christmas I marveled at how neat my small house was on Christmas Day, in spite of the guests, the dogs, the wrapping, the gifts, the food, because I deal with stuff more frequently. Things get dumped or donated much more frequently.

I do not regret living small at all.

I wish you well in this new stage of your journey... hugs to you.

[Teacher Terry]

I have many friends so once we are safe to socialize that need will be filled. I do normally spend a fair amount of time at home since retiring. The bigger condo is by a park with a walking path. The nicer one is downtown close to a park, river walk and all kinds of events, restaurants, etc. I will drive less and just walk out my front door. One has a parking garage and one a car port.

[Teacher Terry]

Catherine, the nicer one makes my heart sing. If I go with that one I may have to give up my antique dining room table and chairs. I have had it 40 years and it’s in perfect shape. From the pictures it doesn’t look like it would fit. It’s a 52 in square without the leaves. I figured I could use a card table when I had dinner guests. I eat in the living room watching tv when I am alone anyways. That’s amazing that your small place is neater. When I had my small condo I had 9 people for dinner and it was one of the best thanksgiving ever.

[razz]

So sorry that you are having to deal with this right now.

As others have said very well, go where your heart sings and needs are best met. From your posts, it is sounding as though the nicer one is calling to you.

[iris lilies]

Ugh, so sorry TT. Well, you will make a lovely living environment wherever you end up.

For me, my single living idea envisioned a first floor unit where I could walk directly outdoors from my own unit to at least a patio if not a patio and a yard. Realistically, with two dogs, that’s what I would want anyway.

When I bought a condo a few months ago, The concept of negotiating with condo association rules was foreign to me, so I’m glad our friend and real estate agent had lots of experience with it. Like you, my main concern was any dog restrictions. While I’m knew people in the building had dogs, and I saw that some had large-ish dogs, most of those dogs were quite small. I wanted to make that they didn’t have a size restriction on dogs. I didn’t really care about any other rules or regulations because I knew I would abide by them.

Anyway, in my state the law calls for me to make an offer and once it was accepted I had five days to review the condo association rules to approve them for the sale to go through. That was a pain because they didn’t give me the formal document until 12 hours before the actual closing. As it turns out it was all fine because they had “unofficial “rules and regs of the condo association which accurately describes their current pet limitation which is two pets per unit. And that is perfectly fine for me. I will seldom have dogs there but when I do it could be as many as two.

But you were smart to write that into your offer to buy, that is contingent on condo rules allowing two dogs.

[JaneV2.0]

My condo was just under a thousand square feet, and it was perfectly adequate.
Definitely go with the one that makes your heart sing.

[dado potato]

TT:
I don't envy anyone going through divorce, but I certainly wish you well with the changes that are coming your way.

The discussion got around to your prized dining room table. I would hope that you have capable legal representation, and the eventual divorce settlement would include compensation for all the personal property you may be leaving behind.

If I was considering downsizing, a major consideration for me would be walkability. Is there a convenient walking route to a pleasant spot that is dog-friendly? I note that in some cities and towns, dogs are not allowed in parks... except for "dog parks". Like Steve in MN, my best days as an apartment dweller were in a vibrant neighborhood. I took interesting walks in all seasons. I could enjoy the neighborhood, but never needed to find a parking spot!

[ApatheticNoMore]

Wow bad, I'm sorry, happens of course, but really sucks.

The smallest I've ever lived in was a studio apartment. One was a larger size studio for sure, the other not so much, of the two studios I lived in. I could not possibly tell you the square footage, I've never seen that listed on a rental agreement. The larger studio was a security building. In many ways I prefer the one bedroom I live in now as just one room as with a studio does get kinda claustrophobic even more if it's smallish, hey I get something out of being able to change rooms. Now it's a 1 story 1 bedroom apartment that opens up to the outside not a security building, but I have no shared hallways for covid spread (just shared walls), so that's definitely a plus these days, very covid-safe. It feels like a mini-house this 1 story arrangement, it helps I have quiet neighbors - for the most part.


For me, my single living idea envisioned a first floor unit where I could walk directly outdoors from my own unit to at least a patio if not a patio and a yard.

nice! I like those types of condos too.

[rosarugosa]

Terry: I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I don't have much advice on the housing, but I think the fact that you are referring to one of the condos as the nicer one is telling.

[JaneV2.0]

Take as much time as you need, but--as I always say--Go with your instincts.
(What is it about holidays and breakups, anyway?)

My condo was one story, open to a patio on one side, and a common walkway on the other. It was very pleasant.

[rosarugosa]

I have one additional thought to add. An extra bedroom does give you more flexibility, and in recent years, I've felt some regret that our one bedroom house doesn't lend itself to more flexible living arrangements. If you can imagine a scenario where you would want a child, sibling or dear friend to stay with you while either you or they were recuperating from an illness or injury for example, then an extra bedroom would come in handy and the couch might not be totally satisfactory.

[Tammy]

If you have a future partner, it’s nice to have two bedrooms. It’s really too soon to talk about this I know, but if you’re buying, we’re looking at many years into the future.

Since getting covid, SO and I have decided to use our second bedroom for him. Our sleeping hours are unpredictable (especially mine) and when I can get good sleep it’s great to not be disturbed by his movements. Every time he rolled over in bed I woke up.

Now that we’re settled in with our separate bedrooms we wonder why we didn’t do it sooner.

[JaneV2.0]

....
Now that we’re settled in with our separate bedrooms we wonder why we didn’t do it sooner.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard this. I've never been a communal sleeper, so it doesn't surprise me.

[iris lilies]

I would not limit myself to one bedroom if there would be two people occupying the unit.


But single people have to be very careful about spinning that “what if “scenario to justify a second bedroom. That second bedroom is expensive in real estate. You’re paying for that second bedroom every day of your life regardless if anyone is really using it or not. Even if you pay cash for the place, you’re paying more in taxes and condo fees for a second bedroom.

[JaneV2.0]

I would not limit myself to one bedroom if there would be two people occupying the unit.


But single people have to be very careful about spinning that “what if “scenario to justify a second bedroom. That second bedroom is expensive in real estate. You’re paying for that second bedroom every day of your life regardless if anyone is really using it or not. Even if you pay cash for the place, you’re paying more in taxes and condo fees for a second bedroom.

Even if I downsize, I would prefer three bedrooms to two, two baths to one--but that's me. Two bedrooms, two baths would probably be fine.

[razz]

I would not limit myself to one bedroom if there would be two people occupying the unit.


But single people have to be very careful about spinning that “what if “scenario to justify a second bedroom. That second bedroom is expensive in real estate. You’re paying for that second bedroom every day of your life regardless if anyone is really using it or not. Even if you pay cash for the place, you’re paying more in taxes and condo fees for a second bedroom.

Well said, IL. There is always a possible imagined need. If the need becomes an actual, then adjust the reality. One cannot plan for all eventualities that might occur. A single BR unit is always a valuable investment.

[early morning]

Terry, I'm so sorry!! No advice - never lived in town, or in anything other than a stand alone house, and downsizing for me would be a nightmare - but I love a view! I'd go for the nice one with the view!

[JaneV2.0]

I can afford to indulge my imaginings, since I would realize a tremendous tax reduction (around 5K a year) should I move. I'd rather have the room/flexibility. I'm using all three bedrooms now.

I agree that any well-situated real estate is a good investment.

[frugal-one]

Sorry to hear TT!

Had this discussion recently because of COVID I am sure. Think the first thing would be to find the place that has the most to do and then what serves your purpose or you enjoy the most. Sounds like both places would meet your needs.

[Tradd]

Terry, so sorry to hear this. Sounds like you really prefer one to the other.

[happystuff]

When the time comes... so far I'm thinking 2 bedrooms, 1 bathroom, kitchen opens up into the living room with maybe a small side room off the living room for - whatever. (I actually just described the double-wide I used to live in, except that it had 3 bedrooms. LOL) I grew up in a very large family with 1 bathroom, so I know it is doable. Plus I'm a firm believer in the less space to clean, the better! Definitely want outside area - maybe a patio and small yard. Minimal maintenance.

[iris lilies]

Even if I downsize, I would prefer three bedrooms to two, two baths to one--but that's me. Two bedrooms, two baths would probably be fine.
Good lord girl, WHY would you want two freakin’ toilets to clean?

If single, no, count me out of the two toilet club.

[mschrisgo2]

Sorry for your situation, TT.

I’d go with the place that makes your heart sing. That’s how I’ve chosen my last several homes- ranging in size from 1800 sq ft (3 people, no pets) to 386 sq ft- current, just me, plus 3 cocker spaniels. Along the way, 1200/3 bedroom/2 bath house, and 600/1/1 apartment (included 6x6 inside storage closet).

Since I added dogs to my life 26 years ago, outside access is important. Natural light is also very important to me. The 600 sq ft apartment I lived in for 10 years was a second floor, garden apartment and a corner unit, so it had 2 extra windows. The landscaping was lovely and it was like living in a tree house. The only reason I moved was that the 30 yr loan and restriction to “seniors” and below market rate rent was ending. My rent was $1200. when I moved out. A year later, that unit was $1900, no idea what it is now.

My current 386 sq ft is a tight fit, especially with 3 dogs. The only things that make it work are a very large covered deck that we use nearly year round, a decent sized grassy backyard and an 8x10 storage shed.... Well, and my current propensity to get rid of things!

[iris lilies]

As a Condo buyer in my city, one thing I would look for if it’s a problem in your city is Airbnb rentals, short term rentals. I don’t want to live in a building where there’s a lot of Airbnb‘s in fact I don’t want to live in a building where there’s any at all.

My condo building does not allow any rentals for units purchased three years ago and prior to that date. That’s a relief for me. I see the problems that a building with 50% Airbnb rentals bring to our neighborhood

. We’ve been working with police department and our alderman and the management company for six months because their tenants are crappy. It is a place for family reunions and not only are they not honoring any kind of restriction about meeting in large groups, they scream and yell in the street, sell drugs, etc.

[Teacher Terry]

Every had great points. My 2 dogs are 5lbs each and are pad trained. Here if you want a small yard you have your own entrance and I need a security building to feel safe. I am fine with a balcony. I just haven’t lived in 500 sq ft before. At 66 I would never live with another man. I have been doing everything for the last 23 years. I am done being someone’s maid. I have time to think about it because I probably won’t get the house on the market until April. I want all his junk gone and he has been packing for 3 days still not done with his office and half of our bedroom. The garage, shed and partial dirt basement is full of his junk. Chrisgo, it’s amazing that you are living in such a small space with 3 dogs.

Thanks IL about the Airbnb tip. My other 2 condos had rules about number of rentals allowed. The really nice building I doubt would allow that as the condos near the top cost close to 900k. By the 9th floor I cannot even afford a studio. The price increases by size and how high up because of the views.

[Tradd]

I live in a small one BR condo I rent. 12 years. It was good until I started diving. My gear takes over the place. Now I work from home and the desk is in the LR. It works and it’s cheap for the area.

[SteveinMN]

WHY would you want two freakin’ toilets to clean?
Two bathrooms was a requirement for my house. Part of that is because three bedrooms (and the possibility to create more) can house enough people to make a second bathroom worthwhile. But part of it also is having a second bathroom when something happens to the first (fixture failure, painting, etc.). But that falls into the "you pay for it no matter how little you use it" factor. As a single person, I'm hardly ever using both baths at the same time.

[Simplemind]

Oh TT, I'm so sorry to hear this. 2020, the gift that keeps on giving - ugh.
Before I married DH I was living in a 860ft house. 2bd 1ba and the best floorplan ever. I so hated selling that house. I really contemplated keeping it as a rental. Back at that time I was still at the PD and I hate to say it.... somebody was always going through a divorce or separation and needed a place. I knew I could keep it rented and to people I could trust. But alas, sold it. It was the perfect size for my son and I along with a large German Shepherd and a cat. I would go back to that size in a heartbeat.
Keeping an eye on downsizing in the future I am always shopping Zillow just to see what is out there. I worry about Condo's taking dogs because I doubt I will ever have one much less than 70lbs. I also like living up but it is so nice to just open a slider to let the dogs out.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I wouldn't get a second bedroom just for guests - yea if living with someone full time then yes. If just having a guest occasionally add a futon as a second sofa, and leave it at that, unfold it if there is a need. A second bedroom can be an office if you think you need one (though having worked from home 9 months of pandemic, I personally can't imagine ever needing one even if I had an actual work from home job).

[Teacher Terry]

I used to use my office daily when teaching. Now I rarely use it and only if I have private work. I can easily get rid of my computer and desk and use my laptop.

[mschrisgo2]

TT, I imagine 500 sq ft, if arranged right AND if you don’t have “stuff intensive” hobbies- like diving or quilting- would probably feel fine, especially if you have a view.

Part of why my place is a tight fit is that I am a quilter and I have 2 towers of boxes of fabric!

[Tybee]

So sorry to hear this news, what a lousy surprise to end a lousy year.

I lived in a 400 foot condo in Chicago that had a doorman, and liked it very much because one wall was a view of the city and it was on the 7th floor, so it was a good view. But I did not like the whole going down corridors to get to my place and would have different needs now. I lived with one other person in an 800 square foot house but that was SC and we had a deck and a screened porch, which helped alot.

I did not like the studio-ness of the condo, where it was one room only. It felt weird, never to be able to go into a different room.

WE have always had big dogs, so I would need a townhouse with a yard, but going forward, I would not have any more big dogs--we will go small only from now on so that we can move into something easier if need be. So it sounds like you have the dog situation figured out really well.

If he is out, I hope you can hunker down until April to buy something? Let the dust settle a little? We just made a housing purchase feeling like there was a gun to our head and it's not a good thing, I realize now, and not conducive to a the decisions we would have made without the gun to our head. So maybe stay put for 6 months and not be in shock when you make your decision? (Speaking from recent bad experiences here.) Give yourself a break, and don't make any housing changes for 6 months?

[Rogar]

I lived in a converted double garage for several months. One big space plus a bathroom. There was a park and open spaces near-by so it was ok but not comfortable. I'd probably have to go twice that size to feel like home during Covid and winter time.

[catherine]

Good lord girl, WHY would you want two freakin’ toilets to clean?

If single, no, count me out of the two toilet club.

I agree that two bathrooms is unnecessary. I have one for 2 full time and 1 near-full-time people. The only inconvenience is worrying about other people's "needs" if you are occupying it for a long time. I've considered buying a boat commode and putting it in our outdoor shower enclosure for emergencies.

I think 2 bathrooms is a nice-to-have, but what REALLY annoys me is the perceived need that I see on HGTV all the time for a) a bathroom for every bedroom plus one on the main floor and b) two sinks in the master bath. I have NEVER brushed my teeth in a bathroom at the same time with DH. I just don't get it.

[JaneV2.0]

Good lord girl, WHY would you want two freakin’ toilets to clean?

If single, no, count me out of the two toilet club.

I don't mind cleaning toilets, but I do mind walking up or down stairs more than I have to, at this point. :|(

[JaneV2.0]

Two sinks in a bathroom are good for hand washables, though that's about it; I have a bottomless wash tub in my utility room that would be a joke to try to use for anything short of washing a standard poodle. Believe it or not, that was a selling point. :D IMO, they should routinely design houses with baths standard with each bedroom. It makes perfect sense to me. But I could make do with one per floor as long as I lived alone.

I'm not someone who needs an over-large or particularly fancy dwelling, but I know what I like. At this point 900-1200 square feet, a pleasant view, safety, quiet, and convenience are all important to me. And a kitchen that knows its place, which is not in my living room!

It's good, TeacherTerry, that you have some time to look at the possibilities available in your area.

[iris lilies]

Oh I understand why have two bathrooms if you have more than one person living there. And also if you have more than one floor. I just didn’t get why two bathrooms for one person and on single floor living would be a requirement.

As for Jane’s comment about a bathroom per bedroom—that’s what I see here in my neighborhood as the Victorian replicas are built. More bathrooms, smaller. And it does make sense. When we renovated our house in the early 90s it was the thing to dedicate one Room on the second floor as a very large bathroom. That has gone by the wayside for more bathrooms of smaller square footage.

[iris lilies]

I agree that two bathrooms is unnecessary. I have one for 2 full time and 1 near-full-time people. The only inconvenience is worrying about other people's "needs" if you are occupying it for a long time. I've considered buying a boat commode and putting it in our outdoor shower enclosure for emergencies.

I think 2 bathrooms is a nice-to-have, but what REALLY annoys me is the perceived need that I see on HGTV all the time for a) a bathroom for every bedroom plus one on the main floor and b) two sinks in the master bath. I have NEVER brushed my teeth in a bathroom at the same time with DH. I just don't get it.
One of the things I think about for when we get our real estate finalized, if that ever happens (meaning if we get our Herman house renovated) we’re going to have a bunch of small bathrooms. We’re going back to pre-WWII era where bathrooms are small places of necessity, you get in, you get out.

in that scenario I will have four toilets to clean(3 in Hermann, one in the city) , but not much tile because the rooms are small.


I was describing our Hermann house renovation to architect friends and I found myself apologizing for the size of the bathrooms. And one of them said well you can always bump out the wall and make it bigger, and it was at that moment that I thought to myself wow – I really like the idea of small bathrooms. Why am I apologizing?

And yes, there is no room in a small bathroom for double sinks. Who needs them anyway? We have them in our “big “bathroom in the city and I’ve never once, not once, used them at the same time. We also have one of those giant bathtub with jets that we have never used once, not once.

[Teacher Terry]

When I lived in homes with 2 sinks I hated it because of losing the counter space and we never brushed our teeth at the same time. I raised the kids in a house with 1 bathroom and there were 5 of us. Two would have been nice. Tybee, I appreciate the advice but this can’t be dragged out because our income is greatly reduced by splitting. If he rents there’s no money to help me with house bills and we would have to use our savings. Each of us buying a small condo is way cheaper. I plan to list the house 4/1 and find a condo at the same time. We need this time to have him get rid of his junk and I want to get the house into tip-top shape. It would sell fast regardless but the more money we can get the better. We only have 2 weeks supply of homes so really a hot market.

[frugal-one]

We have one full and one-half bath for 2 people. It is great. I would even be happy if the full bath was just a walk in shower.

[Tammy]

Since 1981 we only had 5 years with more than 1 bathroom, and those years were 1 full bath and 1 half bath. We had 3 kids.

It never bothered us ...

Oh - one time we cleaned up an 80 year old toilet in the basement so we would have a spare for emergencies. It was a toilet in a corner. No sink. Ha.

[Alan]

When I was a kid we had one outhouse, well, most of the time we had one, I accidentally burned it to the ground and we were without for a short while. Later we had one bathroom for a family of 7 and to me it felt like quite a luxury.

Today my wife and I have 3 full baths, one for us, one for the grandboys when they're about and one for overnight guests. That seems like the right amount to me.

[rosarugosa]

When I was a kid we had one outhouse, well, most of the time we had one, I accidentally burned it to the ground and we were without for a short while. Later we had one bathroom for a family of 7 and to me it felt like quite a luxury.

Today my wife and I have 3 full baths, one for us, one for the grandboys when they're about and one for overnight guests. That seems like the right amount to me.

OK Alan, now you can't just leave us hanging without telling us the story of the fire.

[razz]

OK Alan, now you can't just leave us hanging without telling us the story of the fire.

Probably went there to have a forbidden cigarette and got preoccupied with looking at the Sears Catalogue :devil:

[Alan]

OK Alan, now you can't just leave us hanging without telling us the story of the fire.


Probably went there to have a forbidden cigarette and got preoccupied with looking at the Sears Catalogue :devil:I think I told this story here once before but I'm happy to tell it again.

We lived way out in the middle of nowhere Missouri surrounded by cotton fields and the occasional soybean crop. Our outhouse was attached to a fairly large shed which also doubled as a chicken coop, there was a 55 gallon drum behind the shed which we used to burn trash. My mother sent me out with a paper bag filled with household trash and one kitchen match to burn it with. One of the items in the bag was a pair of pants that had apparently been patched enough times to not bother with another. When I started the trash fire, one leg of the pants was hanging over the edge of the barrel and I noticed that the leg which was inside was burning nicely. I grabbed the outside leg and pulled the burning leg out of the drum and waved the pants around over my head a few times just watching the flames. Now of course a burning section of fabric separated itself from the pants and flew into a pile of straw against the back wall of the shed and before I knew it, the entire shed and accompanying outhouse were in flames.

The closest fire department was about 20 miles away and we didn't have a phone to call them anyway. That fire did empty the fields for miles around as farm workers abandoned their work and headed towards the smoke they could see in the distance. All those fine folks began a bucket brigade from our well to the house, keeping it doused well enough to keep it from burning too.

My dad was picking cotton in Texas that month and it took nearly a week before one of his uncles showed up with a hammer, a saw and a box of nails to construct a new outhouse out of scrap wood. That thing was ugly, drafty and leaked terribly when it rained, but it beat nothing.

[razz]

I think I told this story here once before but I'm happy to tell it again.

We lived way out in the middle of nowhere Missouri surrounded by cotton fields and the occasional soybean crop. Our outhouse was attached to a fairly large shed which also doubled as a chicken coop, there was a 55 gallon drum behind the shed which we used to burn trash. My mother sent me out with a paper bag filled with household trash and one kitchen match to burn it with. One of the items in the bag was a pair of pants that had apparently been patched enough times to not bother with another. When I started the trash fire, one leg of the pants was hanging over the edge of the barrel and I noticed that the leg which was inside was burning nicely. I grabbed the outside leg and pulled the burning leg out of the drum and waved the pants around over my head a few times just watching the flames. Now of course a burning section of fabric separated itself from the pants and flew into a pile of straw against the back wall of the shed and before I knew it, the entire shed and accompanying outhouse were in flames.

The closest fire department was about 20 miles away and we didn't have a phone to call them anyway. That fire did empty the fields for miles around as farm workers abandoned their work and headed towards the smoke they could see in the distance. All those fine folks began a bucket brigade from our well to the house, keeping it doused well enough to keep it from burning too.

My dad was picking cotton in Texas that month and it took nearly a week before one of his uncles showed up with a hammer, a saw and a box of nails to construct a new outhouse out of scrap wood. That thing was ugly, drafty and leaked terribly when it rained, but it beat nothing.

Interesting account. I didn't realize that cotton was grown that far north into Missouri. It would be an educational experience for you to go through. How old were you then?

[Alan]

Interesting account. I didn't realize that cotton was grown that far north into Missouri. It would be an educational experience for you to go through. How old were you then?I was 7 or 8 at the time and yes, cotton was and still is grown in S/E Missouri.

[frugal-one]

I think I told this story here once before but I'm happy to tell it again.

We lived way out in the middle of nowhere Missouri surrounded by cotton fields and the occasional soybean crop. Our outhouse was attached to a fairly large shed which also doubled as a chicken coop, there was a 55 gallon drum behind the shed which we used to burn trash. My mother sent me out with a paper bag filled with household trash and one kitchen match to burn it with. One of the items in the bag was a pair of pants that had apparently been patched enough times to not bother with another. When I started the trash fire, one leg of the pants was hanging over the edge of the barrel and I noticed that the leg which was inside was burning nicely. I grabbed the outside leg and pulled the burning leg out of the drum and waved the pants around over my head a few times just watching the flames. Now of course a burning section of fabric separated itself from the pants and flew into a pile of straw against the back wall of the shed and before I knew it, the entire shed and accompanying outhouse were in flames.

The closest fire department was about 20 miles away and we didn't have a phone to call them anyway. That fire did empty the fields for miles around as farm workers abandoned their work and headed towards the smoke they could see in the distance. All those fine folks began a bucket brigade from our well to the house, keeping it doused well enough to keep it from burning too.

My dad was picking cotton in Texas that month and it took nearly a week before one of his uncles showed up with a hammer, a saw and a box of nails to construct a new outhouse out of scrap wood. That thing was ugly, drafty and leaked terribly when it rained, but it beat nothing.

He is pulling your leg.

[iris lilies]

He is pulling your leg.
Interesting.

which part is not true?

[jp1]

He is pulling your leg.

It seems reasonable to me. My grandparents bought a farm in rural Missouri in the late 50's that still had an outhouse. They used it for a few years until they had enough money to add the second tiniest bathroom onto the house that I've ever seen. (The tiniest being the one in the 250 sq foot apartment I lived in for 12 years in Manhattan.) That farmhouse was a step up from the house they'd lived in in the nearby city, which my dad grew up in, which didn't even have running water. Only a handpump well in the back yard.

[iris lilies]

There is a house in Hermann, now owned by the state of Missouri as an historic site, that was occupied by the same family from the time it was built in the early 1800s. The last member of the family live there until the 1970s. She never had an indoor bathroom.

[Yppej]

Maybe what some find incredible is that there was no government AKA fire department to ride to the rescue and people solved the problem of the fire themselves.

[jp1]

As to the original question of how much space, my 250 sq foot apartment was fine when I moved in. I didn't have much stuff and I was more interested in all the things that I could do in the city than I was in living in a nicer, larger space. By the time I moved out I had definitely outgrown it. I had acquired two computers, a tv, vcr and dvd player, and most importantly taken up beer brewing, which requires a fair amount of equipment and space to store 100 beer bottles. Now we live in a 1600 sq foot townhouse and I love all the space. It's nice having a dedicated office, and rooms big enough that we actually have walls that don't have furniture against every inch the way we did in our 1200 sq foot apartment in San Francisco.

As far as bathrooms, we have 2 1/2 now with only one sink in each. We've never had two sinks in the master and I don't really see the point. But we've lived in places that had 2 or 1 and they were fine. Having more is nice, but not necessary, because once the cats are ready to inhabit the whole house we can put their litterbox in an infrequently used one so that we don't have to deal with the annoyance of a litter covered floor every time we use the bathroom. And I don't see the point of large bathrooms. It's just wasted space that has to be cleaned, and it means that the room will still be cold when one gets out of the shower.

I tend to agree with Iris on extra space. We actually use all of our space, but if it were just me I wouldn't need nearly as much space. I wouldn't need a separate den if I lived alone. Or a separate office. I would just use the living room for all non-sleep activities and the bedroom for sleeping. The smaller but more lovely apartment Teacher Terry mentions sounds perfect for one person. And having her son sleep in the living room when he visits seems reasonable. Obviously they get along and I assume that he won't be sleeping until noon while visiting, etc. If he will, then yes, maybe a place with at least a second bedroom would make sense.

[Teacher Terry]

That’s funny Alan:))

[Teacher Terry]

JP, my son can sleep through anything. He gets up by 6 am. Yes him and I get along great. He has been living with me since April because of the pandemic.

[jp1]

Thinking more about my tiny apartment in NYC, my upstairs neighbor who had the same layout, had plenty of room. By the time I moved out he had lived there about 10 years and the only furniture he had was a sleeper sofa, a table height wide dresser that sat opposite it and on which he had a tv, a small bookcase, and a small table/chairs in the 10 x 10 kitchen. He was almost ultralight level minimalist, so he just didn't need a bigger place.

It would actually be kind of cool to go back to such a simple life like I first had there, but I'll never be able to commit to the level of decluttering necessary. The only way it will ever happen is if we have the unfortunate experience of this place burning down. There's plenty of stuff that we have that may get used from time to time (the box of orphaned computer cables for instance...) that wouldn't get replaced if we had to start from scratch with furnishing a place.

[razz]

In the 1950's when we moved into the farmhouse that I grew up in, water was drawn from an artesian well by a hand pump, the usual outhouse and the only indoor toilet was upstairs using a wooden throne with a bucket underneath that needed regular emptying. Within a year, my parents installed plumbing including a bathroom.
It was a rugged 2-storey large brick house beautifully built but most people on farms of that time used outhouses and indoor thrones.
I find it funny how many people today cannot imagine that life was like that and in many places still around the world.

[jp1]

In the 1950's when we moved into the farmhouse that I grew up in, water was drawn from an artesian well by a hand pump, the usual outhouse and the only indoor toilet was upstairs using a wooden throne with a bucket underneath that needed regular emptying. Within a year, my parents installed plumbing including a bathroom.
It was a rugged 2-storey large brick house beautifully built but most people on farms of that time used outhouses and indoor thrones.
I find it funny how many people today cannot imagine that life was like that and in many places still around the world.

Indeed. My grandparents' house was crazy primitive by today's standards. The electric pumped well that they had produced the most "flavorful" water I've ever tasted. And eventually produced water with so much iron in it that it looked more like V8 juice than water, so they spent the money to join the recently installed county water system in the mid-80's. And their electric service was pretty minimal with literally just a two circuit fuse box for the whole house. Basically one or two outlets in each room downstairs and in the two bedrooms upstairs the only electricity was one bare lightbulb in the ceiling of each room, activated by a pull chain on the fixture. They had strung a strip of old sheet from one to the bottom of the stairs so that one didn't have to climb the stairs in the dark. Seriously, they were so frugal that they didn't even spend money on a proper string or rope. When, in the mid-80s around the same time they joined the county water system, they decided to get central air for the four downstairs rooms they had to have a bigger transformer installed because the a/c unit was going to draw too much electricity.

[rosarugosa]

I think I told this story here once before but I'm happy to tell it again.

We lived way out in the middle of nowhere Missouri surrounded by cotton fields and the occasional soybean crop. Our outhouse was attached to a fairly large shed which also doubled as a chicken coop, there was a 55 gallon drum behind the shed which we used to burn trash. My mother sent me out with a paper bag filled with household trash and one kitchen match to burn it with. One of the items in the bag was a pair of pants that had apparently been patched enough times to not bother with another. When I started the trash fire, one leg of the pants was hanging over the edge of the barrel and I noticed that the leg which was inside was burning nicely. I grabbed the outside leg and pulled the burning leg out of the drum and waved the pants around over my head a few times just watching the flames. Now of course a burning section of fabric separated itself from the pants and flew into a pile of straw against the back wall of the shed and before I knew it, the entire shed and accompanying outhouse were in flames.

The closest fire department was about 20 miles away and we didn't have a phone to call them anyway. That fire did empty the fields for miles around as farm workers abandoned their work and headed towards the smoke they could see in the distance. All those fine folks began a bucket brigade from our well to the house, keeping it doused well enough to keep it from burning too.

My dad was picking cotton in Texas that month and it took nearly a week before one of his uncles showed up with a hammer, a saw and a box of nails to construct a new outhouse out of scrap wood. That thing was ugly, drafty and leaked terribly when it rained, but it beat nothing.

Thanks for indulging us, Alan. :)

[frugal-one]

I know Alan is younger than I am and the only people I know who had outhouses were my parents years before I was born probably in the 40s or earlier? It just seems unfathomable to me. It sounds as though he came from a very poor family. Was that in the Ozarks?

BTW in the last month we updated our electric fuse box to a circuit breaker up to 100 amp service and buried all lines. House was built in the 40s. Thought it would be wise since we don't plan on staying winters in the future. If it storms tree branches could bring the lines down. The city water here also has loads of lead. We filter it out.

As a very small child I remember not having a central heating system and standing in front of the "furnace" to get dressed because it was so cold. That seems unfathomable now too.

[rosarugosa]

I'm 62, and when I was a kid (guessing around 10 or so) we visited some households in Maine where the only bathroom facilities were outhouses. This was on Deer Isle.

[razz]

Coming back to the OP's question...

IMHO, you need to decide what your absolute priorities are in a list, those which are flexible and coming back to the earlier observation, what place makes you sing.

As I think about all the diverse dwellings that I have lived in, I realize that each of us can adapt provided that those absolute priorities are met.

As a result of this discussion, I now understand better why my list of 15 absolute priorities was so easy to develop, the house was so easy to find and my utter contentment in the decision I made.

[Alan]

I know Alan is younger than I am and the only people I know who had outhouses were my parents years before I was born probably in the 40s or earlier? It just seems unfathomable to me. It sounds as though he came from a very poor family. Was that in the Ozarks?
Believe it or not there's probably a great deal you'd find unfathomable if you base everything on what you've personally seen. Yes, my family was poor and no we weren't in the Ozarks.


As a very small child I remember not having a central heating system and standing in front of the "furnace" to get dressed because it was so cold. That seems unfathomable now too.
When my family moved into town in 1965, we had a furnace set into the floor in the center of the house with a 2'x2' grate you had to step over when coming out of the bathroom, otherwise you'd burn your feet if you were barefoot, just out of the bath. I loved it though because it beat the hell out of bathing in a wash tub in the kitchen after drawing the water a bucket at a time from the well using a hand pump and then heating it on the kitchen stove. Then, if you wanted to warm yourself you had to stand by the coal stove in the living room because there was no furnace. My mother still lives in that little 800 sq ft house, the only one she'd ever lived in with running water. It has central heat and even central air now as part of the re-build after suffering a great deal of tornado damage in the late 80's or early 90's.

Given that you didn't know anyone living that way I'd have to say you were quite fortunate, but on the other hand I feel sorry for you too, for not experiencing enough of life to know otherwise.

[SteveinMN]

As a result of this discussion, I now understand better why my list of 15 absolute priorities was so easy to develop, the house was so easy to find and my utter contentment in the decision I made.
When I was living in the efficiency apartment, I knew I very likely would end up living in a house (mine or a possible future MrsSteveinMN's was the question). But figuring it probably would be just me for a while, I created my list of must-haves and nice-to-haves. The house I bought (the place we're still in now) ticked almost every box (missed out on "nice view" and I would have chosen a color other than yellow but similar homes in this neighborhood show me that yellow was one of the better choices). I'm still quite happy living here.

The place does not tick every one of DW's boxes, though she's slowly coming around (another couple of decades and she'll love the place :)). We can't really fix what she doesn't like about the house (she claims the house is "too dark" but her preference is for operating-room levels of light and that's not going to happen) and it serves us better on many levels (location, finances, etc.) to stay here.

The point of my ramble, though, is that by taking a good amount of time to evaluate criteria, you can honor your absolute priorities and make a choice you won't soon regret.

[iris lilies]

We have owned 4 houses in St. Louis that did not have a centralized source of heat. They all had coal stoves at one time, but in modern times they used electric heaters. Except for our own house, people were living in all of them.

This is in an area where natural gas is cheap and is the common heating source for a forced air system, it’s just that someone has to spend the $ put in a forced air system. People did not have the money to install these systems in these old houses.

[iris lilies]

I’m serious when I say find out about the rental policy of your condo building. Do they allow short-term rentals ( Air bnb?). Do they allow long-term rentals?


Since security is a major issue with you, you want to think through that issue.

[Teacher Terry]

IL, we have owned 3 condos and I always ask about rentals. I didn’t when I bought my first one and it seriously negatively impacted how much money I had to put down and the interest rate. I learned that the hard way.

[iris lilies]

IL, we have owned 3 condos and I always ask about rentals. I didn’t when I bought my first one and it seriously negatively impacted how much money I had to put down and the interest rate. I learned that the hard way.
Oh! Didn’t know that buildings with rentals concerned the mortgage holder but I can see that.

In my current condo building where there’s 40 units, the owner is not allowed to rent it if it was purchased after October
2017. I’m sure that causes some concern for some people who can’t get their unit sold. In the building there was a foreclosure that people are talking about but I never knew about it. In the same building is another unit that they’ve been trying to sell for months now, but I’ve truly don’t know if it’s overpriced, it might be. It’s a nice enough unit two bedrooms two bathrooms. Was way too big for me when I was looking to buy in that building .

[KayLR]

My house is so old we have 3 bedrooms and one bath. The bath has 2 sinks, though, and DH and I often brush teeth together! Maybe once a week one of us has to ask the other, "Are you almost done in there? I really need to get in." Otherwise, no real problem with sharing. Two bathrooms would be a luxury, and additional cleaning.

[JaneV2.0]

Having had experience with outhouses, I have no nostalgia for them--or, for that matter, for any of those "can you top this?" stories of primitive living. I'm unapologetically thankful to live in an era of reliable heat and running water. Fortunately, any place I'm likely to purchase will have those amenities. :D

[Tammy]

I’m in that sweet spot where we had an out house but we also had an indoor bathroom. It must’ve been installed just before my dad bought the place. It was fun for me as a kid to use the outhouse because it was so different from what I was used to. Dad maintained that out house for about 20 years, and then when it needed major repair he demolished it.

[frugal-one]

Believe it or not there's probably a great deal you'd find unfathomable if you base everything on what you've personally seen. Yes, my family was poor and no we weren't in the Ozarks.

When my family moved into town in 1965, we had a furnace set into the floor in the center of the house with a 2'x2' grate you had to step over when coming out of the bathroom, otherwise you'd burn your feet if you were barefoot, just out of the bath. I loved it though because it beat the hell out of bathing in a wash tub in the kitchen after drawing the water a bucket at a time from the well using a hand pump and then heating it on the kitchen stove. Then, if you wanted to warm yourself you had to stand by the coal stove in the living room because there was no furnace. My mother still lives in that little 800 sq ft house, the only one she'd ever lived in with running water. It has central heat and even central air now as part of the re-build after suffering a great deal of tornado damage in the late 80's or early 90's.

Given that you didn't know anyone living that way I'd have to say you were quite fortunate, but on the other hand I feel sorry for you too, for not experiencing enough of life to know otherwise.

You don't have to feel sorry for me. I have seen enough of poor people and a multitude of living conditions in many places in the world I have traveled. Sadly, it is a shame we had/have to have this in the US. I agree I am fortunate. I know my parents struggled during the early years of their marriage. I was born later so did not have the same experiences as my older siblings. I feel sorry for you to have had such a tough childhood.

[Alan]

I feel sorry for you to have had such a tough childhood.No worries, it wasn't a tough childhood, it was an educational and philosophical opportunity to learn how to rise above your surroundings. I feel bad for everyone denied that opportunity.

[frugal-one]

No worries, it wasn't a tough childhood, it was an educational and philosophical opportunity to learn how to rise above your surroundings. I feel bad for everyone denied that opportunity.

Good attitude... opportunity... ha.

[catherine]

No worries, it wasn't a tough childhood, it was an educational and philosophical opportunity to learn how to rise above your surroundings. I feel bad for everyone denied that opportunity.

My MIL used to say, "We were poor but we didn't know it." She never felt self-pity either, and, like Alan, she grew up frugal, resourceful, pragmatic, and grateful as a result of her upbringing. I don't feel sorry for Alan at all. It is apparent that he was poor in material comfort but rich in love. You can get by without material comfort. I feel sorry for the ones rich in material comfort but poor in love.

[razz]

Before we immigrated to Canada, we seemed to have everything due to my dad's job. We went to the movies, visited friends and enjoyed an active life. Once in Canada, my dad had difficulty finding a job, the currency exchange coming in was unkind and the usual immigrant challenges arose due to limited funds which I remember. My youngest sister remembers none of this aspect. We basically had what we needed in food and shelter and our family but little else. No regrets in any of it as I gained a rich life experience.

[Tradd]

Before we immigrated to Canada, we seemed to have everything due to my dad's job. We went to the movies, visited friends and enjoyed an active life. Once in Canada, my dad had difficulty finding a job, the currency exchange coming in was unkind and the usual immigrant challenges arose due to limited funds which I remember. My youngest sister remembers none of this aspect. We basically had what we needed in food and shelter and our family but little else. No regrets in any of it as I gained a rich life experience.

If you don’t mind saying, which country did your family immigrate from?

[razz]

If you don’t mind saying, which country did your family immigrate from?

South Africa was part of the British Commonwealth at the time and our family could readily immigrate to any other Commonwealth country. My parents saw the future. SA was kicked out of the Commonwealth due to apartheid system.

[happystuff]

I’m in that sweet spot where we had an out house but we also had an indoor bathroom. It must’ve been installed just before my dad bought the place. It was fun for me as a kid to use the outhouse because it was so different from what I was used to. Dad maintained that out house for about 20 years, and then when it needed major repair he demolished it.

Same here. There were outhouses pretty much around our rural neighborhood. As a kid, if outside and needed to go, we always used the outhouses versus risking going home and being told to "do something" or "stay inside"... LOL.

[Teacher Terry]

My youngest son is in Mexico but he called me and we discussed housing. He had me get a tape measure and both 477 and 525 sq ft are way too small for me. I am not going to go lower than 700 sq ft. I told him he was a dream killer of my Mountain View and doorman:)). I have been packing as my husband qualified for a mortgage big enough to buy me out. I am using good size bins with locking lids that my kids use to move. So far I have only filled 8 of them. Besides my clothes which will go into a wardrobe box and pictures I probably only have about 6-8 more to pack I would guess. I guess I have done a good job downsizing but couldn’t tell because of all his stuff.

[razz]

It helps to get a sense of what it would feel like with dimensions as you have done. Being able to talk freely and explore ideas freely as you have done with your son is so helpful. DH and I lived in a motel room as he worked on a family member's cottage. It was amazing how roomy places can be if the design is right and storage is efficient.
In Nevada you would not be as confined as I am in the coldest temperatures. Having an outdoor space like a large balcony or patio would really enhance any living quarters. Have you seen a design layout that you really like in a condo in which you could comfortably spend a lot of time? I ask because it might be wise to consider your needs and wants in 10-15 years time.

[Teacher Terry]

The condo with the great view had a crappy layout. I have lived in 2 so could live in either of those buildings. My main requirement of a security building really limits my choices. I also need to be on the second or higher levels. I don’t feel safe at ground level. All the buildings have elevators which I might need in the future. There’s one in my price range where I used to live on the ground floor unfortunately. Especially with being retired it needs to be big enough. Northern Nevada has winter but not as bad as yours:)).

[pinkytoe]

Regardless of the sucky reasons, I think a lot of us older women should think about a time when we will be on our own since many of us outlive our partners. I have been doing so a lot lately since I have been cooped up with DH during this past year:) I would opt for the slightly larger space but as someone earlier posted "one cannot plan for all eventualities that might occur." I think the smallest space I have lived in was 700 sf and that was more than sufficient but it had a large outdoor porch.

[Tammy]

SO and I were happy in a 550 sq ft high rise apartment for 3 years or so. But we were both working and not home a lot. When 2020 hit and we were both home the last 6 months, I was glad for our approximate 800 sq ft house with 3 separate rooms and a fenced in backyard with small garden. I think the apartment would have been cabin fever inducing.

[Tradd]

Regardless of the sucky reasons, I think a lot of us older women should think about a time when we will be on our own since many of us outlive our partners. I have been doing so a lot lately since I have been cooped up with DH during this past year:) I would opt for the slightly larger space but as someone earlier posted "one cannot plan for all eventualities that might occur." I think the smallest space I have lived in was 700 sf and that was more than sufficient but it had a large outdoor porch.

I already am on my own. What’s important to me is a ground floor unit with no steps, due to my knees. I will never live in a upper floor unit again.

[iris lilies]

Right now, my 550 sq ft condo with no in unit balcony on the second floor is less space than I want for a single domicile for me, a single person.

I have long thought, though, that my city house’s first floor plus basement would be everything I would want as a single person at this stage of my life. It is about 800 sq ft. It would need to be arranged differently, of course, with a bedroom instead of a breakfast nook. The basement is for laundry and storage of flower show stuff. We have a huge patio and and big yard. I wouldn’t want this big of a yard in my 80’s though.

[catherine]

I already am on my own. What’s important to me is a ground floor unit with no steps, due to my knees. I will never live in a upper floor unit again.

One of the things that precipitated my MIL moving to NJ was when she literally couldn't get downstairs. She had an episode of gout. My BIL was helpless as ever--we had to tell him to call 911. When I think of aging in place in my Vermont house, I'm pretty comfortable with it, as I can easily build a ramp if I needed to. Four steps are needed to enter the house. My NJ had no steps getting into the house, and we could have very easily set up our first floor "bonus room" as a master bedroom.

Maybe naively I keep thinking of my great-aunt and grandmother who, in their 80s and 90s, were climbing up and down many stairs every day--to get to the car as well as to go to bed. Boy, I hope I have their genes.

[Teacher Terry]

My mom did steps until her cancer got bad before she died. Her sister lives alone at 96 but can’t do steps due to a bad knee. Any condo building I consider will have a elevator since I want to be on a higher floor. I also have to have a outdoor patio or balcony. 6 months out of the year I can be outside and I love to read outside, visit with friends, etc. I am outside so much that I have a patio heater. I will have to leave it behind and it will never get used.

[iris lilies]

TT I am glad your DH is buying out your part of the house, if I understand the situation correctly.


That is such a freedom for you and now you can entirely focus on a new place to live and you don’t have to think about cleaning out your house and putting it on the market. Ugh, a lot of work!

I hope a suitable condo comes up in the market for you soon.

[Teacher Terry]

Thanks IL. Yes he can get a big enough mortgage to buy me out. Because we have no debt besides the mortgage his payment will be 50% of his take home pay. It’s way cheaper than rent but dumb. He could buy a small condo and have money leftover. He is bad with money so it won’t be good but not my problem. The fact that he packed for a week and it didn’t make a dent is telling. I know it would have fallen to me and my son to do everything for a sale. I am so relieved to just take my stuff and go. My son is happy because he would have cut his trip short to help me. He is supportive and willing to do anything to help. I don’t need help now as I am packing and hiring movers.

Surprisingly I don’t even feel bad about the loss of a marriage because of not only the repeated cheating but the laziness, hoarding, having to literally do all the work. I actually feel relieved although if not for the cheating I would have continued to suck it up. My kids used to really like him and now not so much. I will miss the ability to have someone to do things with spontaneously versus planning. However, I am comfortable doing things alone.

[nswef]

Teacher Terry, I am sorry for the loss of a marriage, and so glad that you are able to leave without having to deal with the house, you can feel relief that you can make a life the way you want it. You will find a good place. Sending you best wishes and calming thoughts.

[Teacher Terry]

Thanks Nswef. This is my third. I divorced my first husband because after 3 years we were constantly fighting and had a baby. He was too immature to get married. Interestingly for someone that was a crappy dad he ended up in 3 marriages, 6 kids and was a alcoholic. He killed himself at 37 when he relapsed and lost his job. Stayed with my controlling and verbally abusive second husband for 22 years until the kids were adults. He didn’t want the divorce and told me he learned from that divorce and treats his wife very differently. She is the controlling, bitchy person in that marriage.

Now at 23 years it didn’t work again. None of this is for lack of trying and dragging husbands to therapy to improve things. If anything I have persevered. The final straw for my first marriage was him cheating and I immediately left. Looking back I should have done that the first time in this marriage.

[JaneV2.0]

My mom did steps until her cancer got bad before she died. Her sister lives alone at 96 but can’t do steps due to a bad knee. Any condo building I consider will have a elevator since I want to be on a higher floor. I also have to have a outdoor patio or balcony. 6 months out of the year I can be outside and I love to read outside, visit with friends, etc. I am outside so much that I have a patio heater. I will have to leave it behind and it will never get used.

Is the heater that large? Most condos have outlets on their balconies.
I've considered elevator buildings, but they're not that common in this area. I've never felt unsafe anyplace I've lived, though.

[razz]

Just a thought - ground floor condos have both ready stair-free access and often patios, do they not? So, what would it take to give a sense of security? The reason that I raise this question? I installed roll-up shutter on my patio door and LR window to reduce the heat from the west sun. They also make a big difference when the temps are really cold. I was surprised how much more secure I felt when I rolled them down at night. That was an unexpected bonus that I would repeat if I have to move in the future. https://rollac.com/products/rolling-shutters/

I had seen a variation of them in Greece and wished that I could find them in Canada. Then I found the right phrase to Google - roll-up shutter - I found that there are a lot of them available for all seasons. Condo associations may have some directions for their use, of course.

[iris lilies]

Thanks IL. Yes he can get a big enough mortgage to buy me out. Because we have no debt besides the mortgage his payment will be 50% of his take home pay. It’s way cheaper than rent but dumb. He could buy a small condo and have money leftover. He is bad with money so it won’t be good but not my problem. The fact that he packed for a week and it didn’t make a dent is telling. I know it would have fallen to me and my son to do everything for a sale. I am so relieved to just take my stuff and go. My son is happy because he would have cut his trip short to help me. He is supportive and willing to do anything to help. I don’t need help now as I am packing and hiring movers.

Surprisingly I don’t even feel bad about the loss of a marriage because of not only the repeated cheating but the laziness, hoarding, having to literally do all the work. I actually feel relieved although if not for the cheating I would have continued to suck it up. My kids used to really like him and now not so much. I will miss the ability to have someone to do things with spontaneously versus planning. However, I am comfortable doing things alone.

Yeah, I was empathizing with you heavily about all of your husband’s STUFF you would have had to deal with to get your house ready to sell. This is a huge blessing, him keeping the house.

Who knows, you two might end up as companions in the future. If you can get along during a house improvement project (laying pergo) you have the basis. And I know you are close to your step sons, so those relationships will continue, no doubt.

[iris lilies]

I think TT knowing herself well enough to put her feeling of safety first is good.

That is such a subjective thing, but important.

Our condo building lost its insurance last year due to new crime reports for the neighborhood. Another insurance carrier at the same price, stepped in. It is a secure building.

But here’s what is odd, and weird, and potentially scary: last spring, two young white men gained entry somehow and went up the elevator to steal—get this—floor mats. Maybe that’s all they could find to take, but how weird.

Our friends who live in another secure building in our neighborhood had a more serious break-in a few weeks ago. Someone knowingly broke into, via window, the mail room where many Xmas packages were sitting. Took them all.

[Teacher Terry]

IL, yes he suggested we could still be companions and live separately. The biggest issue wasn’t his stuff it’s his continuing unfaithfulness. No I am so very done. My youngest stepson wants to keep in contact and I do to. The oldest one stole from his dying mom despite having a good job. His mom found out 2 years before she died and cut him out of her will and life. I haven’t had anything to do with him ever since.

[Teacher Terry]

Jane, patio heaters aren’t allowed here. Plus it’s big. Razz, I lived on the bottom floor alone in a security building. I still had devices on windows and sliders and had trouble sleeping. It goes all the way back to being a victim of a break in when I was sleeping, home alone with a baby.

[Gardnr]

Catherine, the nicer one makes my heart sing. If I go with that one I may have to give up my antique dining room table and chairs. I have had it 40 years and it’s in perfect shape. From the pictures it doesn’t look like it would fit. It’s a 52 in square without the leaves. I figured I could use a card table when I had dinner guests. I eat in the living room watching tv when I am alone anyways. That’s amazing that your small place is neater. When I had my small condo I had 9 people for dinner and it was one of the best thanksgiving ever.

Your heart needs to sing. I would go nicer. The location sounds lovely and close to everything you enjoy. I would hang onto that table until you're in-maybe it will surprise you. And as discussions around here have gone, antiques aren't very sellable these days. If it truly won't fit, have it cut down. You'll enjoy it for your remaining days.

I've been offline for awhile. I am so very sorry you've been treated with such disrespect. You have tremendous self-respect and I send you hugs.

[JaneV2.0]

Your heart needs to sing. I would go nicer. ....

This can't be repeated often enough. Follow your instincts, and don't settle.

[Teacher Terry]

Gard, thanks for your support. My son had me measure the space and it’s much to small. A bigger condo in that building would make me house poor which I don’t want to be. I intend to travel to Europe and also take cruises again. I have happily lived in 2 others that weren’t as nice and one of the two is more expensive and nicer. Since there aren’t many security buildings I will just have to see what’s available. I don’t want to keep living with my husband for months if possible not to. I am ready to move on.

[Tybee]

Gard, thanks for your support. My son had me measure the space and it’s much to small. A bigger condo in that building would make me house poor which I don’t want to be. I intend to travel to Europe and also take cruises again. I have happily lived in 2 others that weren’t as nice and one of the two is more expensive and nicer. Since there aren’t many security buildings I will just have to see what’s available. I don’t want to keep living with my husband for months if possible not to. I am ready to move on.

When we lived in Beaufort, there was a really nice apartment complex where you could get a three month rental. now that he is in the house and you are not going to be in the house, I would look for something similar with a 3 month rental and get out now, so you can do your thinking in peace.

You do not need to spend another day under the same roof, and give yourself time to find a place that makes your heart sing.

[Teacher Terry]

Financially it’s in both of ours best interests to stay in the house. Plus in this state you can lose rights to property if you leave. If we stay together we won’t have to use our savings to pay bills. I am hoping that by the end of February his will be over. Rents here are ridiculous. If I couldn’t buy I couldn’t afford to stay in this town on my income. Plus I have my 2 dogs. I just need to be smart.

[happystuff]

It sounds like you are planning and analyzing everything well.... kudos to you! And sending more hugs as it is still a sucky situation.

[Tybee]

If you are worried about rights to the house then it sounds like you need a lawyer now.
Please protect yourself.

[Teacher Terry]

We are both getting mortgages and depleting our savings to live separately would jeopardize them. We are being nice to each other and we need to work together to get this done. Yesterday I printed out all the paperwork needed for both of us for the loans. Since I do everything I just focus on this is the last time and there’s something in it for me:)). Also on condos I can have anything I want within reason but not everything. Also literally by needing a security building my choices are between 5 places. All but one were built in the 80’s by the same builder. They are all similar. The nicest one only has 43 units versus 200 so fees are much higher and you get less. They have a indoor pool in a huge 2 story area that’s heated very warmly. That’s costing a fortune but the residents won’t agree to get rid of it. Number of owners versus rentals is another consideration. I was perfectly happy for 6 years in my first condo and would still be there if not for the marriage. It was fun to imagine myself in the fancy place with views and doorman but it comes with a cost I don’t want to sacrifice for. I don’t want to live in a beautiful too small condo that will become a prison. It was a short lived fantasy.

[Teacher Terry]

We are saving thousands by having a paralegal type the paperwork and it will be filed this week. Since we are filing jointly the judge will just sign off on our decision. If he cannot get a loan in 60 days from today it states that the house will go on the market. I know my rights and the house is in my name only. I am looking at all possibilities and not being stupid.

[iris lilies]

This can't be repeated often enough. Follow your instincts, and don't settle.
It seems to me that she IS following her instinct—be safe. TT has repeated multiple times that a secured building and unit above first floor is a requirement.

Other issues are secondary.Finances are a limiting factor.

[Teacher Terry]

IL, yes you understand perfectly. In fact I am planning a 2022 European trip with my kids. This is high on my priorities. Reno has become very expensive but I want to stay here. It’s been home for 24 years, my oldest son and DIL are here and I have many real friends that will actually help me if needed. That’s priceless. I feel very lucky.

[iris lilies]

IL, yes you understand perfectly. In fact I am planning a 2022 European trip with my kids. This is high on my priorities. Reno has become very expensive but I want to stay here. It’s been home for 24 years, my oldest son and DIL are here and I have many real friends that will actually help me if needed. That’s priceless. I feel very lucky.
I am not at all worried about you although I sure wish your teaching load was more robust. That money would be welcome and allow you a little bit of luxury.

I know your divorce proceedings will go relatively smoothly and you are watching out for yourself.

[Teacher Terry]

My teaching load has disappeared. They love me and will use me again if needed. This will be the first year I haven’t taught in 8 years. Like everywhere they are trying not to use adjuncts for financial reasons. Besides the money I loved doing it.

[iris lilies]

My teaching load has disappeared. They love me and will use me again if needed. This will be the first year I haven’t taught in 8 years. Like everywhere they are trying not to use adjuncts for financial reasons. Besides the money I loved doing it.

Oh, I didn’t know that all classes or lost I thought you were still doing one. Well that is too bad.

[Teacher Terry]

I last taught last year. Nothing on the horizon. I still do a little consulting when available.

[razz]

TT, you are smart and capable and know what you are doing. You have a number of supports to think out loud to to clear your thinking, including SLF. You know your area and will find the right location to meet your needs and give you time and opportunity to enjoy your life. Way to go!

[happystuff]

I last taught last year. Nothing on the horizon. I still do a little consulting when available.

When time allows and if interested, I know that online/virtual tutoring is growing. That might be something to look into - when ready.

[Teacher Terry]

Razz, this thread has been helpful to prioritize in addition to talking to my friends and family. Happy, thanks for the tip. Until I get moved and settled I won’t pursue anything. It’s funny how everyone’s perspectives are different. Some of my friends think downtown is dangerous to walk around at night (it’s not). There’s homeless people basically. But wouldn’t think twice about living in a non secure condo.

[Teacher Terry]

2 condos where I want to be in my price range are for sale. My husband’s mortgage guy is so slammed because they have the best rates can’t open escrow for 5-8 days so I cannot make a offer. With his closing taking 60 days sellers probably wouldn’t accept my offer anyways with a closing date that far off. Our market is the hottest I have ever seen in 24 years. It’s a bummer.

[Teacher Terry]

Looking at 5 condos today. Very excited! I will report back. Talked to my ex’s mortgage broker and worst case scenario we close 3/8 but may happen within 2-3 weeks because we don’t need appraisal or inspections. That speeds stuff up. I really see myself in the beautiful, fancy condo on the 11th floor with the view:)).

[catherine]

Looking at 5 condos today. Very excited! I will report back. Talked to my ex’s mortgage broker and worst case scenario we close 3/8 but may happen within 2-3 weeks because we don’t need appraisal or inspections. That speeds stuff up. I really see myself in the beautiful, fancy condo on the 11th floor with the view:)).

Fingers crossed it all works out for you, TT!!

[happystuff]

Good luck, TT! Hope things go quickly and smoothly!

[razz]

Looking forward to seeing you happily settled in the condo you choose.

[iris lilies]

Being 11 up is very high! That will be fun.

[Teacher Terry]

The city views and lights will be beautiful. Two more in that building are up for sale that are more money, not as nice and smaller than my favorite. Considering the other 2 have been on the market for a month in a super hot market I think they are crazy.

[Teacher Terry]

So made a offer on the bigger condo that was 250. The realtor said to offer 240 because of time on market and competition. I will know by 3 tomorrow. It’s just as nice as the pictures. The balconies are small. The views are great and the city lights will be awesome. A friend of mine went with me. I am super excited.

[Tybee]

So made a offer on the bigger condo that was 250. The realtor said to offer 240 because of time on market and competition. I will know by 3 tomorrow. It’s just as nice as the pictures. The balconies are small. The views are great and the city lights will be awesome. A friend of mine went with me. I am super excited.

I love that one. Fingers crossed!

[rosarugosa]

I hope you get it!

[chrisgermany]

I knock on wood + press my thumbs for your offer.

[Tradd]

Good luck!

[iris lilies]

Yay! A clean, beautiful, all-yours space! It will be lovely.

[happystuff]

Good luck, TT!!

[JaneV2.0]

Vicarious thrills here! Hope your deal proceeds smoothly.

[Teacher Terry]

The seller countered with 245 and I accepted. Hopefully will close by the end of February. Very excited!!

[SteveinMN]

Congratulations, TT!

[Tybee]

Hooray!!!!!!!

[rosarugosa]

That's wonderful news!

[razz]

The seller countered with 245 and I accepted. Hopefully will close by the end of February. Very excited!!

So pleased for you. Now you have a clear sense of direction for your life going forward.

[Gardnr]

The seller countered with 245 and I accepted. Hopefully will close by the end of February. Very excited!!

FANTASTIC! Cheers to the next chapter TT. May you find joy in this place you love!:cool:

[frugal-one]

WONDERFUL! Now you can rest a bit easier knowing where you will be.

[Teacher Terry]

I won’t totally relax until my ex’s loan closes and then mine. I never have sleeping problems but have since this whole thing started on 12/22. At least now instead of only sleeping 4-5 hours a night I alternate between one good night and one short night. I have been tired all the time since this started. I wish I could make the next month disappear:)).

For once my ex did our taxes quickly because I told him yesterday either do them or I am taking them to Jackson Hewitt. He did them and filed for the refund. We had to claim the stimulus on it. Every time something like this occurs I remind myself it’s the last time I will have to deal with it. Next year I can get them done for free from AARP. You just need to be a senior to qualify. With the standard deduction being fairly high I won’t be paying taxes unless I withdraw from investments.

[happystuff]

Congrats, TT! I hope the rest of the details go quickly and smoothly for you.

[Tybee]

TT, I am in awe of your ability to take care of business. I feel like such a piker in this department. You are an inspiration in making a decision and then making rapid change.

[Teacher Terry]

Tybee and HS, thanks. Luckily I am not good at wallowing. I have always handled problems by thinking things could be worse. They say if we all threw our problems in a bucket and could choose someone’s else’s we would probably pick our own back up when we saw what others are dealing with:)). The mortgage company needed my bank information for payoff and the divorce property settlement so things are moving along.

[catherine]

They say if we all threw our problems in a bucket and could choose someone’s else’s we would probably pick our own back up when we saw what others are dealing with:)).

Yes, I've heard that, too, but that hasn't kept me from over-analyzing everything. You remind me of my MIL... at one point, she learned that her brother, who was living with her at the time caring for their mother, had fallen off the wagon and had taken a couple of things that belonged to her to pay for drugs. My instinct was to tell her about Al-Anon. Her instinct, which she followed immediately, was to change her locks and her phone number and kick him out.

I aspire to that kind of decisiveness. Good for you and I wish you all the best in your new life!

[Teacher Terry]

Catherine, it takes a lot for me to get to the quitting part. I stayed in my second marriage for my kids for 22 years to someone controlling and verbally abusive. I enabled my drug addict son for a long time before I quit. I was trying to help of course. This third marriage I should have left 10 years ago when he cheated. But when I am finally done I am done with no looking back or second guessing my decision. It sounds like your MIL wasn’t a enabler at all:)).

[Teacher Terry]

Well time for a bad news update. When I bought the condo I knew that they had raised the dues on 1/1 from 438 to 608/month but it stated all utilities were included. So I decided that was fine. I knew I could review the HOA documents and I asked my agent to confirm in writing with the HOA that utilities were included. It took 2 weeks to get a answer but they aren’t. The units use 2 boilers and was originally a hotel so it made sense for utilities to be included. Turns out that they hire a company to meter and bill each unit. My realtor asked the seller’s agent why the information was wrong. He said it’s what the seller told him. I am out the 350 I paid for the inspection and intend to see what recourse I have to get that from the seller or her agent.

Now I am back to square one. My ex doesn’t care how long I stay. I am back to cooking and he went grocery shopping and is doing both our other errands like usual. Good thing we are getting along. I know something that I want will come along. 2 nice ones in a area that I like will be on the market on the 12th.

[Tybee]

Darn, Terry, that is too bad, but good for you for figuring it out upfront!

[catherine]

Oh, no. I'm so sorry, Terry. Sometimes things like that mean the Universe is setting you up for something even better..

[iris lilies]

This is awful news! And that condo fee without utilities is high. I suppose that’s because you have a rooftop pool... pool maintenance is expensive.

For the purchase of my condo they sent me the 40 page document describing condo rules, covenants, finances, etc. the day before closing and they had more than a month to send it.

Legally I had five days to review the document before the closing, but I zipped through it because the main thing I wanted to see was the pet policy which I had already seen in an informal document which was satisfactory to me because I knew there are lots of dogs in the condo I just wanted to see if there was a size limit and a number limit.

[Tradd]

Terry, sorry to hear.

[razz]

That is why more units were for sale in the building. Wow!
I figure that every time something like this disappointment happens, it is teaching me something that I need to know to protect myself. That $300 inspection fee is not a bad tuition cost for helping prevent a major problem on a several hundred thousand dollars investment like a condo.
Bet the realtor is shocked and disappointed as well.

[iris lilies]

That is why more units were for sale in the building. Wow!
I figure that every time something like this disappointment happens, it is teaching me something that I need to know to protect myself. That $300 inspection fee is not a bad tuition cost for helping prevent a major problem on a several hundred thousand dollars investment like a condo.
Bet the realtor is shocked and disappointed as well.

For lying on the listing form, and that is a pretty big error tho likely not deliberate, someone owes TT her inspection money back.

Agreed that the listing agent is probably pretty annoyed with her client.

[jp1]

Well shoot. What a bummer. But there’s always other places.

For what it’s worth I’m glad we didn’t get the first place we made an offer on. I’m sure it would have been fine and we knew the issues upfront. But the place we got doesn’t have any of those issues, was cheaper, and has an equally nice, although not waterfront, view. And I suppose it’s just as well that we won’t be buying a boat anytime soon.

Keeping my fingers crossed that you find something else that you like as much!

[Teacher Terry]

The seller wants to sell badly as they offered to pay 200/month for 2 years of my fees. My ex husband looked at the documents because he is a civil engineer and has been on condo boards.
Lots of expenses coming up but they have 2.8 million dollars. They also have a old lawsuit still going on. I figured that the universe is sending me a message. I don’t have to be in a hurry to move and 2 new ones come on the market a week from tomorrow. Also another one with a tenant I will see because the lease is up the end of February. That one is only 190 with a beautiful new kitchen and pergo everywhere but the bedrooms.

[Teacher Terry]

Saw the condo for 190 in a secure building in a neighborhood I love. The kitchen and floors are beautiful. It needs painting, pergo in bedrooms and if it’s mine I will replace the bathtub/shower with a big walk-in shower. The balcony overlooks a beautiful courtyard far from the pool. It also has a vaulted ceiling and skylights. It’s on the 3rd floor which is the top. The agent let mine know that he is only taking offers that aren’t depending on the price being lowered if it doesn’t appraise as high because our market is changing so fast. 5 offers came in and they stopped accepting them by noon. The agent let mine know one was over 200k. So I offered 205 and it turns out that one other person did also. By tomorrow the owner will either take one or ask for best and highest offer. This condo has many things I want as well as the HOA fee being reasonable and covering a ton of items.

[iris lilies]

Thanks for the report TT. I hope you get it! That is a squeaker with the two of you at the same price.

[Tradd]

Ugh. Down to the wire. I’d be going crazy.

[Tybee]

Saw the condo for 190 in a secure building in a neighborhood I love. The kitchen and floors are beautiful. It needs painting, pergo in bedrooms and if it’s mine I will replace the bathtub/shower with a big walk-in shower. The balcony overlooks a beautiful courtyard far from the pool. It also has a vaulted ceiling and skylights. It’s on the 3rd floor which is the top. The agent let mine know that he is only taking offers that aren’t depending on the price being lowered if it doesn’t appraise as high because our market is changing so fast. 5 offers came in and they stopped accepting them by noon. The agent let mine know one was over 200k. So I offered 205 and it turns out that one other person did also. By tomorrow the owner will either take one or ask for best and highest offer. This condo has many things I want as well as the HOA fee being reasonable and covering a ton of items.

This sounds so good--and you saved 45k over the first one!
Even better.

[catherine]

Fingers crossed!! Do you have any leverage against the other bidder other than price? Can you say you can move in quickly? Can you write an emotional note about how much you love it? I did that with my VT house because when they decided to not to sell for a year after we made an offer I was so disappointed that I went behind my realtor's back and sent the owner an emotional plea that I loved the house so much and I would never change it and if they changed their minds about selling please contact me.

A month later she contacted me directly asking if I'd still be interested in buying. They had changed their minds. She said they wanted someone to buy it who loved the house as much as they did.

[iris lilies]

Catherine, that is nice about you promising not to change the Vermont! —fixed it—- house in any way.

I know when I sell our city house, people are going to rip out the second and third floor. The spiral staircase that DH built painstakingly by hand, the spiral staircase that he and his dad cooperated on to make the center pole and he made treads from church pews – that is painstaking work done with his hands. And they will rip it out.

And you know what? It’s OK.It has served served us well for many years, And a tight spiral staircase is not practical for many people.

I think of all the woodworking he’s done, and I think most of that will survive with the new people. Certainly the gorgeous crown molding and bookcases on the first floor and third floor will survive. If the new people are smart, they will keep the wonderful kitchen cabinets that are nicer than anything you can buy today. I know because I’m trying to buy them for my condo! Ha ha.

But I expect the hand built bathroom vanity will be trashed because it’s out of style.Probably the old French doors Not original to this house will be pulled out. Most people don’t like French doors they’re not terribly practical. And there will be other things that leave.

[Tybee]

Catherine, that is nice about you promising not to change the Rivermont house in anyway.

.

IL, I love your auto correct. It changed Vermont to Rivermont--like Riverdale in Archie. Rivermont should be our online town!!

[Teacher Terry]

Tybee, not saving 45k as had to offer 205 and the other person matched it. I will also need to spend money before moving in to make it the way I want it which is probably another 5k. Got a email from listing agent that the other offer had zero money for repairs which is fine. But they want me to verify by a phone call if 2 small dogs are accepted. I want it in writing either through the documents or email. The elevator has a big plastic sign with the dog rules that say 2 under 35lbs but I also know some associations are militant and will even take people to court so not bending on this. Will probably need to go up to 211 to get it. I won’t go higher than that considering it will most likely only appraise at 180. This condo meets all my requirements and the HOA fee of 373 covers all utilities except a small electric bill. The a/c is not on my electric bill.

My agent already told the listing agent my situation and put it on the offer. Honestly when I sell it’s all business and I suspect this guy is also like that from the way things are being done.

[Tybee]

That utility thing is huge, I can see why you are going for this one.
Are you verifying that you have 2 small dogs, or verifying they are allowed? I am confused.

My dogs are too big, that's another reason to downsize one's dogs as one ages.

[iris lilies]

IL, I love your auto correct. It changed Vermont to Rivermont--like Riverdale in Archie. Rivermont should be our online town!!
Argh! I corrected it.

[Teacher Terry]

That they are allowed. My first realtor was from Poland where dogs have jobs. She suggested I get rid of one. Instead I got rid of her:)).

[JaneV2.0]

It sounds wonderful!

[JaneV2.0]

I probably would have bumped up my offer. Even if you eventually spend $250K total, it will be minimal in the scheme of things. Let's hope the other buyer gets distracted by another unit. But I'm a believer in things working out the way they're supposed to...

[Teacher Terry]

Jane, I am going to bump my offer from 205 to 211. That’s as high as I will go in that building. You can get much nicer condos for 250.

[Teacher Terry]

Catherine, my offer is contingent on my ex husband’s loan going through. Can’t close until he does.

[Tybee]

Are they asking for highest and best? I hate that, it just feels nervewracking.

[Teacher Terry]

Tybee yes so I will go to 211 but no higher.

[Tybee]

A good plan!!

[iris lilies]

That they are allowed. My first realtor was from Poland where dogs have jobs. She suggested I get rid of one. Instead I got rid of her:)).
Yes!

In my condo building I saw lots of little old ladies and gentlemen with little fluffy dogs. So I figured little fluffy dogs were OK and then I saw somebody with a bigger dog. But I still wanted confirmation that they take dogs of 60 pounds for current tenants. You know these buildings are always changing their rules and they may grandfather in a dog in a particular unit, but if that unit comes up for sale it could be ruled as a no dog unit. You never know.

[Teacher Terry]

So the owner is taking new offers just from the 2 of us until 3pm tomorrow. Might not know the outcome until Tuesday. I will keep you posted:))

[Tybee]

So the owner is taking new offers just from the 2 of us until 3pm tomorrow. Might not know the outcome until Tuesday. I will keep you posted:))

Thank you, fingers crossed for the right outcome

[Teacher Terry]

I got the condo! The other person had a slightly higher bid but I am putting down 134k so I only need a 75k loan. So that I guess means my loan is more likely to close. Very excited!

[Tybee]

I got the condo! The other person had a slightly higher bid but I am putting down 134k so I only need a 75k loan. So that I guess means my loan is more likely to close. Very excited!

Fantastic! I am so happy for you!

[Gardnr]

I got the condo! The other person had a slightly higher bid but I am putting down 134k so I only need a 75k loan. So that I guess means my loan is more likely to close. Very excited!

Wohoo! What a great relief for you.

[Tradd]

Woo hoo! So glad to hear!

[frugal-one]

Congrats!

[razz]

So you still ended up saving money from the first one you bid on, you like this unit on the third floor, in a neighbourhood you are pleased to live in, almost all utilities are included in the condo fee, your dogs are allowed.... sure sounds like a winner all the way. Good for you!!!!

[iris lilies]

What a relief! Yay!

[catherine]

Yay!!!! Fantastic!! Congrats, Terry!

[Teacher Terry]

Razz, yes it all worked out. The dogs and I will be very happy there. We are 2 blocks from a beautiful park with a nice walking path. Also close to stores, restaurants, etc. Having the second bedroom will be nice for company and especially when my son stays for a few months when he is back from Mexico. When I sit on my balcony I will be looking at the courtyard which is grass and trees. We will spend many happy hours out there.

[jp1]

Congratulations!

[KayLR]

Sounds great, TT! Glad it's worked out.

[Teacher Terry]

Thanks everyone!

[rosarugosa]

Congratulations! Do we get to see pictures?

[happystuff]

Congratulations!!!! I'm so happy for you!

[Teacher Terry]

https://nnrmls.com/homes-for-sale-details/2700-PLUMAS-322-RENO-NV-89509/210001220/114/

I am going to have it painted and pergo put in the bedrooms before I move in. Later I am having the bathtub removed and a walk in shower with a high toilet. I don’t like the small refrigerator so will remove the cupboard above it and replace all appliances with stainless steel. Once it closes I need to measure to see if the space is wide enough for a refrigerator I want. If not I will buy a apartment size stove which is smaller. You can’t put a turkey in one but I quit cooking them 4 years ago. I am not found of the pillars on the island but they have to stay because they are set in the granite I think. They really made the island too big but nothing to do about that.

I wish the hutch wasn’t built in the dining room because I have a beautiful antique buffet I would like to put there. I don’t need the storage space. I thought of putting my tv on it but my tv will be too high and hurt my neck. Will probably have to put it in my bedroom which is a bummer.

[Tybee]

https://nnrmls.com/homes-for-sale-details/2700-PLUMAS-322-RENO-NV-89509/210001220/114/

I am going to have it painted and pergo put in the bedrooms before I move in. Later I am having the bathtub removed and a walk in shower with a high toilet. I don’t like the small refrigerator so will remove the cupboard above it and replace all appliances with stainless steel. Once it closes I need to measure to see if the space is wide enough for a refrigerator I want. If not I will buy a apartment size stove which is smaller. You can’t put a turkey in one but I quit cooking them 4 years ago. I am not found of the pillars on the island but they have to stay because they are set in the granite I think. They really made the island too big but nothing to do about that.

I wish the hutch wasn’t built in the dining room because I have a beautiful antique buffet I would like to put there. I don’t need the storage space. I thought of putting my tv on it but my tv will be too high and hurt my neck. Will probably have to put it in my bedroom which is a bummer.

Can you remove the built in hutch and put it somewhere else, like the bedroom to make it an office? Then you could use your buffet.

[Teacher Terry]

I could remove it but if they didn’t run the floor under it that’s a problem as the floors are new and expensive. I don’t need the storage space and have some beautiful antiques for the bedrooms. I would just get rid of it.

[Teacher Terry]

36173617 This is the buffet. Please report any ideas that you have because I love input from all my fellow interior decorators:)).

[nswef]

I am so happy for you! It's a perfect space for you. Your buffet.I like the tv idea, but understand about the height. Could it go behind the sofa if you put the sofa facing the balcony? Or on that tall wall?

[iris lilies]

TT I have ordered apartment sized appliances for my condo. The stove is 24” wide. There is also a smaller stove at 20”, but that is truly tiny and besides few makers are out there for them. The refrigerator is 24”. The dishwasher is 18” .

Be forwarned that appliances are taking a loooooooong time in these Covid times to come. The delivery date for our refrigerator has been set back twice. That is fine with me since the thing will just sit unused for many months.

oh also, some appliances are simply not being manufactured in Covid times. Bosch stopped making panel-ready dishwashers in 18” size because that was a specialty item, and they need to focus on main line items.

This may be an upside of Covid for us simplifiers who do not want 1 million choices in appliances. We now have far less than 1 million choices since the manufacturers cannot turn out all of the choices.


Of course, I want the specialty items NOW because they best fit into my tiny kitchen.


I hated the giant size refrigerator that was in that space, it overwhelmed the space.

[Tybee]

I would absolutely use the buffet in the living room. It's beautiful.

[razz]

TT, may I suggest that you do the work needed and then live in the space for a little while to give yourself time to see the possibilities and options. I found that so helpful when I moved into my house as people came in and innocently made comments about a room that made me expand my thinking.
That is a lovely hutch!

[Teacher Terry]

If I cannot put the tv on it there’s no place for it. I found that at a consignment store for $450. Then I paid someone 1100 to make it look like that. I also paid them to make the kitchen cupboards match. I thought we were staying there forever. This is my favorite piece of furniture.

[Tybee]

If I cannot put the tv on it there’s no place for it. I found that at a consignment store for $450. Then I paid someone 1100 to make it look like that. I also paid them to make the kitchen cupboards match. I thought we were staying there forever. This is my favorite piece of furniture.

Then make sure to take it with you and use it. Put the tv on it, and if it doesn't work, something else will occur to you to do with it.

[Teacher Terry]

Razz, I have redone 9 homes and the one I had to live in because I couldn’t afford to fix it right away made me very unhappy. Now I have most of the work done before I move in so it’s just the way I want it. The bathroom is the exception because it’s not as important. It’s also a pain to renovate a small space once you are moved in because it’s difficult to clear a space of furniture, etc.

[iris lilies]

I have a hard time picturing the tv being too high. Our tv sits on an antique chest of drawers circa 1860 that is 38” high.

is that too high for you? It seems right to me.
3618

[herbgeek]

What a beautiful place Terry.

[Tybee]

Ours is up 50 inch from the floor, on top of a game cabinet.

[JaneV2.0]

Let's hear it for happy endings!

[iris lilies]

The link to TT’s condo is now dead, but I tracked photos down from her description.

oh man...I would SO use that cool old sideboard as my TV stand along the wall opposite the sofa. TT are you really sure your neck would hurt? I personally don’t like the TV stands that are low.

As an aside, in my condo I’ve decided not to have a TV. While I watch tons of video, I just don’t watch it on the big screen.

Terri I like the balcony and I like the view from the balcony. And I think you are good to have it not overlooking a pool. The constant screaming and yelling from a pool could be annoying.

[Teacher Terry]

IL, the link worked for me just now. I have a bad neck injury from 8 car accidents. Our tv stand is lower. I would never leave that piece behind. It’s going somewhere:)).

Thanks for the appliance tips. I may just leave the white dishwasher as it blends into the cabinets.

[rosarugosa]

The link worked for me. It looked like I was getting some sort of error message, but then it opened up.
That is a lovely place, and I personally think I would dislike living in a high-rise, so I like this better than the other building. It looks like a deadhead currently lives there, and surely that is good luck! :)

[Teacher Terry]

I was excited about living in a high rise on the 11th floor. The views of mountains and city lights would have been great. But Reno is a Windy City especially in summer so it may have been to much. They didn’t allow doggie visitors and a good friend brings her 2 yorkies when she comes. Downtown
can be noisy and has homeless which are negatives. I figured I wouldn’t hear noises way up there but who really knows.

[JaneV2.0]

This seems to have worked out perfectly. The unit is just the right size, and your costs are lower. Living in a neighborhood you love is a huge plus.

[mschrisgo2]

TT, I stayed for a week a few years ago on the top floor of one of the big hotels in Reno, in July. It was hot and windy, all we could see out the windows was dust swirling... I was disappointed because I thought we’d be able to see the mountains. It was quite a pleasant view several floors lower.

I love your buffet. I can’t quit see the legs/feet. Would it be possible to take off an inch or two to reduce the height? If you love it, please take it with you!

[Teacher Terry]

Chrisgo, that sounds awful and disappointing. I am definitely taking my buffet. It’s fancy and curvy on the bottom. It’s a creative solution but don’t think I want to cut the legs. I need to measure the difference between that and my tv stand but do know the stand is lower.

[iris lilies]

Chrisgo, that sounds awful and disappointing. I am definitely taking my buffet. It’s fancy and curvy on the bottom. It’s a creative solution but don’t think I want to cut the legs. I need to measure the difference between that and my tv stand but do know the stand is lower.
It is a creative solution, agreed.,I guess you could cutt off one set of round knobby feet But he probably wouldn’t lose much in height. You cant cut further down into off the big round balls, it would lose all of its character.

[Teacher Terry]

I doubt I could bring myself to do that. Someone suggested cutting down my dining room table and that isn’t happening. Luckily it will fit in the condo.

[Tybee]

I actually did cut off a tall table back 30 years ago to make our coffee table, and it's been with us ever since. Yesterday my son came out to visit and he said, "it's so nice to see all the old things" but I think the coffee table was actually the only two things from that far back.

Or maybe he meant us...

[catherine]

I actually did cut off a tall table back 30 years ago to make our coffee table, and it's been with us ever since. Yesterday my son came out to visit and he said, "it's so nice to see all the old things" but I think the coffee table was actually the only two things from that far back.

Or maybe he meant us...

lol. :~)

It must have been nice for your son to have some references to his childhood. We can't fit much of our old stuff in this house, but we have our old farmhouse table and my great-aunt's Governor Winthrop desk. The two pieces hardly go together, but what the heck. I can't part with either.

Terry, your buffet is beautiful. How much of the furniture from your house will you be able to take to the condo?

[Teacher Terry]

Taking a good look it wouldn’t be steady without all of the legs due to the small piece above the ball. Catherine, I am taking the couch, my chair and 2 small tables for living room. Leaving him the big end tables and coffee table. I bought a small coffee table. I am taking the bed and desk for my office. In the dining room my table and chairs, antique dresser and a small cabinet. In my bedroom just my nightstand and long dresser with mirror. All the bedroom furniture is mine but don’t need it. We have 2 patio tables so taking the smaller one which still seats 6 people.

we have a king sleep number bed that I love. I am buying a queen that will elevate when I want. It will be good for when I am sick and can’t lay flat. That’s the last bed I will need. Ours is 17 years old and as long as you can replace the pump they last forever.

[Gardnr]

36173617 This is the buffet. Please report any ideas that you have because I love input from all my fellow interior decorators:)).

I would totally use it in the living room and put the TV on top. (We have our TV on top of our old stereo stand and our necks actually like it!).

[Teacher Terry]

I have a really bad painful neck from 8 car accidents. I need to figure out if it will work for the tv.

[Teacher Terry]

So I measured and it’s only 7 inches taller. So I decided you guys are right and I am going to try it and if my neck hurts then will use my tv stand. For the past 16 years my walls have been cream with green accent walls in every room but my bedroom which had a maroon accent wall behind my bed. I am now thinking cream with a grey accent wall should go nicely with the kitchen and my couch is grey, cream and beige. For my bedroom I bought pink sheets and a gray comforter. I am thinking I will paint a light pink on the wall behind my bed. Comments or suggestions welcome!

[iris lilies]

That shade of green in your current house is very close to the color in my house throughout. And then, my favorite decorator, Laurel Berg has this yellowy-green in her house as does one of her favorite decorators. I am now calling it senior lady green, haha. But I love it and I will have a version of it in my Hermann house throughout. With cream trim! Instead of white trim as ?I have here in the city.

But none of this has given you any useful info. I am terrible with colors, it takes me months to decide.I can’t help.

It’s great that you will give your sideboard a try as tv stand. It is a nice piece of furniture and it will fit nicely there.

[iris lilies]

Well, gray everything is very popular right now.

I actually LOVE gray and would have chosen that as main color if it wasn’t already so over used IMHO. My condo currently IS grey.

Gray is a flexible and handsome neutral. Make sure the undertone is warm rather than cool if you are going with cream (a warm) main color.

[JaneV2.0]

If I were decorating now, I would consider wallpapering a wall or two. You could go with a small repeating pattern or go bold with large motifs.

[Teacher Terry]

IL, I wasn’t a senior when I chose that green 16 years ago:)). Thanks for the tip about the grey needing to be warm. Because the condo is small I don’t want any dark colors. I also bought a red toaster and electric can opener because of the white and black kitchen but I don’t want to paint red anywhere. My pictures and niknaks have pink and green in them.

Jane, in the past I have used wallpaper for a accent wall but you need someone very good at hanging it for it to look good. I am just going to use paint.

[razz]

I will never use wallpaper again. When it is glued on wallboard, it is almost impossible to remove without gouging the wall. I suspect that the paint that that home builder used was cr*p not sealing the wallboard. The wallpaper was quite costly with its own glue so now I trust no wallpaper or provider unless I expect to have the same for the rest of my life.

[iris lilies]

They now make these big peel off wallpaper murals that interest me, but I’ve decided against using one.

Traditional wallpaper scares me for the reasons razz mentions.

As far as warm undertones versus cool undertones: I read an article about this a couple years ago and ever since, I’ve been thinking about that. The author of this article cautions you to keep your undertones consistent in your house. There is less clashing in this approach.

My condo will be cool colors and I want the white trim to be cool undertone. My Hermann house will be warm colors and I want the trim to be cream which is obviously a warm color.
After I read that article, my own kitchen then started bugging me because The floor tile, a lovely dusty gray, is cool, I guess. The wall color chosen 25 years later is a warm green color I think those are clashing undertones although somebody with acute color analysis skills could convince me that the gray has warm undertones rather than cool undertones.

But likely the stuff in my kitchen clashes. I do know there are too many surfaces.

[Teacher Terry]

I suck at picking paint. A good friend at work helped me with the colors I have. I have a friend that is a artist that will help me this time. I think I mentioned that this same friend is redoing my coffee and end tables that I bought specifically for the condo because they are small in size. Her husband did any repairs that were needed first.

[Teacher Terry]

So condos are for sale like crazy at the first place. Now 13 in a total of 125. I am sure it’s due to the high jump in association fees. The 2 bedrooms have a fee of 836. Some of them are 1600 sq ft and cost 500k. There’s also a small lawsuit in the building but people can get mortgages because it’s less than 10% of the total building. It’s from a prior commercial tenant on the first floor. Only 2 have sold but not closed yet. I really feel like I dodged a bullet.

[iris lilies]

My condo fees are $311 per month and that includes extra money for a heated garage. It’s crazy luxurious, that old heated garage. I don’t care about it, but it sure was a big selling point for DH in convincing him to buy this condo. He parked his Mercedes Benz in it where it will sit most of the time.

[Teacher Terry]

That’s funny IL. In this climate I don’t care about a garage. We have car ports which keeps the little weather we get off the car. My HOA fees are 373 which includes all utilities except electric and sewer. I even get my a/c included. I was told my electric bill will be about 30/month.

[BikingLady]

Smallest space we lived in was our cottage up north we loved it packed it all up and moved there in '08 it seems. A chalet with upstairs really not much other than a bedroom and a cat walk with 1/2 bath. I told this story a few times I think, but it was mid life crisis and shuck it all, sell everything and go north and live a real simple life in the middle of "no where". Ok so good learning experience, where you vacation is not where you should live. Isolation is great dream to visit till we lived there! Anyhow so cute and small, but husband still jokes about how he was laying on the bed and could see the other end of the house and the walls were so close! So I think we need a bit of room.

[Teacher Terry]

That’s funny biking lady. 2 people definitely need some individual space. Being isolated would suck on a daily basis.

[JaneV2.0]

That’s funny biking lady. 2 people definitely need some individual space. Being isolated would suck on a daily basis.

I need to live in a fairly densely populated area. I can enjoy my solitude without living like Ted Kaczynski. Squirrel soup is not, as Iris Lily might say, my jam.

[BikingLady]

I need to live in a fairly densely populated area. I can enjoy my solitude without living like Ted Kaczynski. Squirrel soup is not, as Iris Lily might say, my jam.
AS we like to say; A place to get away is only good when trying to get away from something.

[BikingLady]

That’s funny biking lady. 2 people definitely need some individual space. Being isolated would suck on a daily basis.
First month I remember thinking OMG what did we do? Husband was happy as he could be grating the two track road on his 8N, no internet or cell service. Second month I believe I was adjusting,,,maybe. Husband announced he was Rotting! Third month he was on a plane to NYC and then to Turkey. Me I moved back to from where we came in a home we bought down the road from where we were 3 months before. We had the northern Mi home(s)for 17 years prior so it was not like we had never been there. we actually sold the place and never returned.
I will say it was one of the biggest lessons in life we ever had.

[iris lilies]

First month I remember thinking OMG what did we do? Husband was happy as he could be grating the two track road on his 8N, no internet or cell service. Second month I believe I was adjusting,,,maybe. Husband announced he was Rotting! Third month he was on a plane to NYC and then to Turkey. Me I moved back to from where we came in a home we bought down the road from where we were 3 months before. We had the northern Mi home(s)for 17 years prior so it was not like we had never been there. we actually sold the place and never returned.
I will say it was one of the biggest lessons in life we ever had.

I remember when we were looking around for a, at the time, weekend place. The teeny Elsah, IL is the cutest place around and I was jonesing for one of their old stone houses.One day when were there DH looked around and said in his serious voice “ok, but what are you going to DO here?” no restaurants. No commerce. About 35 houses.

He brought me Back to earth. See? Sometimes I do really listen to him.

After that, I expanded my search to include a town with many and strong cultural institutions. it is true that tiny Elsa has tiny cultural institutions, is extremely insular and you have to be a native and you have to be a Christian scientist to get your foot in the door.

Hermann is much more lively with a dozen wineries and tourists. The cultural institutions there do rely heavily on families that have been there for 150 years, but that’s fine. I don’t expect to be a queen bee I am very good being a footsoldier in any organization.

[jp1]

I agree with the desire to be in a fairly dense place. I don’t need to move back to midtown Manhattan but when I needed to be alone my 250 sq foot apartment was completely fine.

[BikingLady]

[QUOTE=iris lilies;375835]I remember when we were looking around for a, at the time, weekend place. The teeny Elsah, IL is the cutest place around and I was jonesing for one of their old stone houses.One day when were there DH looked around and said in his serious voice “ok, but what are you going to DO here?” no restaurants. No commerce. About 35 houses.

Yes sometimes place seem and look so wonderful and they probably are for many. We just have to get past the honeymoon phase and think of daily life

[iris lilies]

[QUOTE=iris lilies;375835]I remember when we were looking around for a, at the time, weekend place. The teeny Elsah, IL is the cutest place around and I was jonesing for one of their old stone houses.One day when were there DH looked around and said in his serious voice “ok, but what are you going to DO here?” no restaurants. No commerce. About 35 houses.

Yes sometimes place seem and look so wonderful and they probably are for many. We just have to get past the honeymoon phase and think of daily life

Last summer I drove through tiny Elsah on a gorgeous summer day in my convertible with the top down. I had a memorable experience. A group of little boys were playing in the creek that winds through the village there.They looked up from their busy creek activities and yelled at me hey lady, what is that, a Maserati? One of the boys said naw, that’s a Ferrari. I was laughing because my car isn’t either one of those, but The kids got the Italian heritage right if not the marquee.

It was such a throwback to modern life, seeing those kids messing around In a lazy creek on a beautiful day surrounded by a village of stone houses.It was like a scene from 1955.

[Teacher Terry]

So for awhile it looked iffy if my ex husband was going to get a high enough loan to buy me out. It’s been 6 weeks of ups and downs by his incompetent mortgage company. Needless to say I was trying not to get to attached to my new condo in case I had to put my house on the market and my seller got mad and didn’t wait. Today I received the form for my money for the title company to sign. It’s actually going to close on the 8th. So my good friend and I went to get paint samples. While I always know what colors I want I am bad at being able to pick the exact color that will look good on the wall. My friend is a artist and awesome at this. As soon as the house closes I will buy the paint and supplies. I am thinking about having her paint my dresser and nightstand. What do you guys think?36413641

[Tradd]

Good news! What colors do you have in mind for the furniture?

[Teacher Terry]

The wall behind my bed is going to be a light pink. The other walls cream. We were thinking a combination of gray and pink. My sheets are pink and comforter is gray. So the dresser would be on a cream wall.

[Tradd]

Sounds great!

[razz]

This is exciting and fun as I love pink and grey and think that it would look lovely, - pretty dresser!
Possession on March 8th sounds good with little time to wait.

Your art friend will know about the outside influences on indoor colours.
Just a question - would a very light gray and darker accent gray work as an alternative?

[iris lilies]

So for awhile it looked iffy if my ex husband was going to get a high enough loan to buy me out. It’s been 6 weeks of ups and downs by his incompetent mortgage company. Needless to say I was trying not to get to attached to my new condo in case I had to put my house on the market and my seller got mad and didn’t wait. Today I received the form for my money for the title company to sign. It’s actually going to close on the 8th. So my good friend and I went to get paint samples. While I always know what colors I want I am bad at being able to pick the exact color that will look good on the wall. My friend is a artist and awesome at this. As soon as the house closes I will buy the paint and supplies. I am thinking about having her paint my dresser and nightstand. What do you guys think?36413641


The current finish of your dresser isn’t one that I would like, so painting it would only be better in my book. I rather like the trifold mirror.Hi finishes in lacquer are wet being done with daughters like that in my region.

[Teacher Terry]

Thanks for the ideas both of you. Will discuss with my friend. I loved the finish of the dresser 24 years ago but now not so much. I bought the entire set before I met my husband but only taking the dresser and one nightstand. Leaving the rest for him. Razz, my house closes on the 8th but the condo doesn’t until the 15th. There’s a week between the two on purpose in case there’s any delay. I need my money from the house for the condo. I won’t move in until the 23rd so the work can get done.