View Full Version : Who Has Not Been Vaccinated?
Is the vaccine now ok’d for youth? I had thought our delay was due to untested for kids status.
You are right. I corrected it to 'over' age 12.
Given the initial data on one of the new variants that is fast spreading around the planet, I'd strongly encourage anyone who hasn't been vaccinated yet to do so ASAP.
Lord knows I'm trying. I submitted a form for the at-home vaccine visit maybe two weeks ago. I've heard nothing. I've decided J&J is the way to go. Safeway says they have it on one site, but not the other. Called. They don't have it. It will have to be a walk-in, because my transportation is marginally reliable--Uber or the Community Transit "short bus," so an appointment would be iffy. And all because my wretched excuse for a car chose COVID time to throw a tantrum. In truth, I could go a couple of years, probably, without getting one--I'm at more risk leaving the house to get vaccinated than I currently am staying home. At this rate, I'll be so angry I'll have a stroke and make a vaccination moot.
So proud of Vermont. First state to have 80% of all eligible people vaccinated! Also the lowest rate of cases and deaths on the Continental 48. We have lifted all restrictions and states of emergency as of yesterday.
Really? If there is no mask mandate I would go to Vermont for an eye exam, but it is my understanding the mandate is still in effect in "health care settings". I don't think a doctor's office for a routine screening should be lumped together with the covid ward at a hospital.
Really? If there is no mask mandate I would go to Vermont for an eye exam, but it is my understanding the mandate is still in effect in "health care settings". I don't think a doctor's office for a routine screening should be lumped together with the covid ward at a hospital.
And those of us who do medical work are glad you are not in charge of such things.
I'm in fact going for an eye exam in just one hour, and there are a set of covid-related protocols I have to do for the visit. Quite sensible ones. Then again, my County has its policies set by people who actually have a clue. (Unless perhaps it is purely an accident that we also have had the nation's top-performing response to covid, even in the face of the million+ "visitors" we have here every year...)
I emailed a VT eye doctor since the state's website only references Federal transportation mask mandates. A few days ago I emailed an optometrist in NH but they never got back to me. This could be a new take on medical tourism.
I emailed a VT eye doctor since the state's website only references Federal transportation mask mandates. A few days ago I emailed an optometrist in NH but they never got back to me. This could be a new take on medical tourism.
Indicative of a deep understanding of epidemiology - "Gosh, I don't like the safety measures in my area, I think I'll travel somewhere else to take advantage of their less restrictive conditions. That will surely end well!"
It's good to know where peoples' priorities lie.
iris lilies
6-15-21, 6:23pm
Indicative of a deep understanding of epidemiology - "Gosh, I don't like the safety measures in my area, I think I'll travel somewhere else to take advantage of their less restrictive conditions. That will surely end well!"
It's good to know where peoples' priorities lie.
hunh, you mean The Science is not uniformly known, understood and/or carried out in Science/health settings? By people actually in The Science? i am shocked. Not.
yet, we mere peons outside of The Science are constantly berated here and elsewhere for not knowing or understanding The
Science.
I don’t think there’s really any hope for us, and that probably can be interpreted in a variety of ways which is fine with me.
Maybe science can explain how a mask that fogs up my glasses - and presumably the glass device put over my eyes during the eye exam - can allow me to get an accurate eye exam.
#IDidn'tGetVaccinatedForNothing
ApatheticNoMore
6-15-21, 6:57pm
It's pretty far into making assumptions territory to assume the mask would fog up the eye device they use for glasses. But if masks have become the focus of your life ... you look for things that might possible go wrong I guess.
It's pretty far into making assumptions territory to assume the mask would fog up the eye device they use for glasses. But if masks have become the focus of your life ... you look for things that might possible go wrong I guess.
I only get one eye exam per year under my insurance. It's not like I can waste a visit and then go back later for one that works.
Maybe science can explain how a mask that fogs up my glasses - and presumably the glass device put over my eyes during the eye exam - can allow me to get an accurate eye exam.
I was vaccinated many months ago.
At my eye exam today, I had to wear a mask during the entire exam, as per the rules of our County, and the eye doctor had a few extra procedural protections to follow as well.
I had to run the gauntlet of All The Fancy Machines, and it was no problem with the mask. Easey Peasey, and the exam took less time than usual because of the improvements to exam efficiency the doc had made to his process.
#IDidn'tWhineAboutMasksOrTravelToVermontToInfectPe ople
I get an eye exam occasionally, but mostly, my "exam" consists of comparing my vision with last year's, and checking each eye individually to make sure I'm not showing symptoms of cataracts (which wouldn't be "ripe" anyway). A real exam can wait indefinitely.
I'm not sure what your rush is, as COVID restrictions are being loosened every day. You can reschedule when they suit you.
Jane I was diagnosed with central serous retinopathy pre-covid. So I get the annual exam at no cost, but if it shows the problem has not cleared on its own I will need followup. The last time the routine exam at one place was maybe an hour but the followup at another place took almost 3 hours. That is a long time to be wearing a mask when you get claustrophobic with them and have trouble breathing. So I have just waited but I get nervous too although my vision does not seem worse.
Jane v2.0
6-15-21, 10:02pm
Jane I was diagnosed with central serous retinopathy pre-covid. So I get the annual exam at no cost, but if it shows the problem has not cleared on its own I will need followup. The last time the routine exam at one place was maybe an hour but the followup at another place took almost 3 hours. That is a long time to be wearing a mask when you get claustrophobic with them and have trouble breathing. So I have just waited but I get nervous too although my vision does not seem worse.
That makes sense; you have a condition that requires attention. I expect regulations will loosen shortly.
rosarugosa
6-16-21, 7:16am
Jeppy: What type of mask do you use? DH and I both have respiratory issues, but those surgical procedure masks (often blue) are reasonably comfortable, don't noticeably restrict our breathing, and do not fog up my glasses (I wear eyeglasses all the time). I might get a tiny bit of fogging coming in from outdoors in really cold weather, but it's typically not an issue. We decided some months ago that the reusable cloth masks were not a good option for us.
I also found what rr found, that the blue paper ones are a lot easier to wear than the cloth ones, even though I went out and bought cloth ones and made cloth ones. If I have to go somewhere and wear a mask, I go with those blue ones.
I checked in my bag and the one I have and have had problems with is blue. I did email my Mass provider now that the state of emergency has been lifted has anything changed maskwise. Vaccination should have its privileges, but certain bitter people cling to masks and fear.
ETA: If I tuck the blue mask under my nose I have no problem but with my nose covered I do.
happystuff
6-16-21, 10:55am
Lord knows I'm trying. I submitted a form for the at-home vaccine visit maybe two weeks ago. I've heard nothing. I've decided J&J is the way to go. Safeway says they have it on one site, but not the other. Called. They don't have it. It will have to be a walk-in, because my transportation is marginally reliable--Uber or the Community Transit "short bus," so an appointment would be iffy. And all because my wretched excuse for a car chose COVID time to throw a tantrum. In truth, I could go a couple of years, probably, without getting one--I'm at more risk leaving the house to get vaccinated than I currently am staying home. At this rate, I'll be so angry I'll have a stroke and make a vaccination moot.
Jane, hope you can find a workable solution sooner rather than later!
I feel very grumbly lately. Everything is struggle and frustration, it seems. Maybe the coming sunshine will cure my malaise. >:(
The Vermont eye doctor is not accepting new patients. I am now thinking maybe Rhode Island or Maine. Will see.
happystuff
6-16-21, 11:21am
I feel very grumbly lately. Everything is struggle and frustration, it seems. Maybe the coming sunshine will cure my malaise. >:(
I've had those moods. Hopefully the sunshine will help, otherwise, I used to just sleep a bit more.
Went to the grocery store yesterday. I'd forgotten that it was the first day of normal for California. About 2/3 of the people were still wearing masks (including me). Noticed a few minor changes around the store. For instance the bulk, store-cooked bagels were individually wrapped throughout the pandemic. Yesterday they were unwrapped with a tray of paper bags nearby like they were 15 months ago. That 'protection' had always seemed rather silly since throughout the pandemic I could still walk across the store to the produce section and pick up individual apples or other produce. At least the bagels have a sneeze guard.
Maine and RI still have restrictions. I am trying more eye doctors in NH.
happystuff
6-17-21, 11:25am
Went to the grocery store yesterday. I'd forgotten that it was the first day of normal for California. About 2/3 of the people were still wearing masks (including me). Noticed a few minor changes around the store. For instance the bulk, store-cooked bagels were individually wrapped throughout the pandemic. Yesterday they were unwrapped with a tray of paper bags nearby like they were 15 months ago. That 'protection' had always seemed rather silly since throughout the pandemic I could still walk across the store to the produce section and pick up individual apples or other produce. At least the bagels have a sneeze guard.
Not to be argumentative or anything, but I'm thinking most produce can be/does get washed once people get it home. I don't know that I would want to eat a bagel I had to wash first. lol.
On the other hand, I have no problems with buying a bagel in a bagel shop or some place that has them in containers together as long as it is only the employees who have access to bag it up for me (every place I have been even pre-covid, the employees wore gloves) - instead of the potential of every shopper in the store being able to touch and choose as many bagels as they want before finding their perfect one for purchase.
In theory people are using the little tissue slips to pick up the bagels and not actually touching any of them. Whether they do or not, who knows.
I wonder which kills more germs. Rinsing/rubbing an apple in water for ten seconds or heating a bagel in a toaster. Either way, with case counts here in the low single digits for a county of 250,000 people I’m not concerned about getting covid from either.
ApatheticNoMore
6-17-21, 4:14pm
If you were going to get covid from bagels, getting take out, much less door dash etc. delivery from who knows who, would be a problem and people shouldn't have gotten take out and delivery during covid. But formites turned out to be a real non-issue. There is what actually spread covid (breathing) and what never much did, although at the very beginning we did not know, so I washed stuff from the grocery back then too.
Went into the city today to go to the recently fully reopened library. Still a lot of masks being worn. And still required at the library which makes sense given the very diverse type of patrons they have.
ApatheticNoMore
6-21-21, 1:11am
very diverse being code for homeless :) But yea it really does make sense there.
most places I am going are not particularly diverse (in terms of class anyway), they aren't particularly disadvantaged, and I'm not wearing a mask now vaccinated. But where have I even been? the gym, the store, restaurants, kinda, that's about it.
Got my J&J today, via Uber.
I think I was prudent choosing that one, due to the logistics of it all.
After sporting 2 snug fitting masks, five layers, plus a filter, I'm solidly on team yppej. :D
I'll see about a booster later.
I also got 10% off 2 pounds of char siu BBQ pork, which will end up in Singapore noodles some time in the future.
I also got 10% off 2 pounds of char siu BBQ pork, which will end up in Singapore noodles some time in the future.
That should be a fine booster all by itself!!!!
That should be a fine booster all by itself!!!!
Yes indeed!
For those liking to cook Asian foods, I recommend Marion's Kitchen on YouTube.
I made Singapore noodles after enjoying them at a now-defunct Hakka restaurant in Seattle.
rosarugosa
6-24-21, 6:19pm
Glad you were able to get vaccinated, Jane!
Glad you were able to get vaccinated, Jane!
Me too. First time out with my sturdy rollator. I'm slow, but I get there!
Glad youre finally out among us again, Jane!
Teacher Terry
6-24-21, 8:30pm
Congrats Jane!!
happystuff
6-25-21, 10:43am
Good job, Jane! and Yay on the BBQ!!
frugal-one
6-25-21, 3:03pm
Yay Jane!!! Congrats!
Glad youre finally out among us again, Jane!
I'll venture out again when the car is fixed, no doubt. I'm just happy I haven't become agoraphobic. :~)
Me too. First time out with my sturdy rollator. I'm slow, but I get there!
Happy for you!
A friend of my sister’s, 75 year old woman, is part of a tight knit group of friends. All women around the same age. All have been fully vaxxed for months and went back to doing normal gatherings as soon as they could. Over the past month two developed sinus infections and two had moderate coldlike symptoms that lingered for a couple of weeks. Turns out that they all had covid. The other five women have tested negative. Apparently the vaccines worked exactly as expected. No serious illness and less than half of them got infected despite repeatedly getting together indoors for prolonged periods such as at restaurants.
iris lilies
7-12-21, 1:54pm
A friend of my sister’s, 75 year old woman, is part of a tight knit group of friends. All women around the same age. All have been fully vaxxed for months and went back to doing normal gatherings as soon as they could. Over the past month two developed sinus infections and two had moderate coldlike symptoms that lingered for a couple of weeks. Turns out that they all had covid. The other five women have tested negative. Apparently the vaccines worked exactly as expected. No serious illness and less than half of them got infected despite repeatedly getting together indoors for prolonged periods such as at restaurants.
that is cheerful news again. I had forgotten that the vaccinated were projected to get much lighter versions of The Bug if infected with it.
ApatheticNoMore
7-12-21, 2:12pm
The worry about vaccinated people being infected (with variants that have been tested against the vaccine so far - yes I have to add that) seems silly.
I am surprised that people with "moderate coldlike symptoms" would go to the doctor. This is one reason healthcare is so expensive in this country. My father is 82 and gets sinus infections and does not go to the doctor for them.
If everyone went to the doctor for every little thing and was tested for covid I wonder if the numbers who've had it would be doubled. I had flu symptoms that lingered for a couple months starting in late January 2020 and never went to the doctor. There is a good chance I had covid since I was also short of breath which I've never had before with a flu.
This reminds me of cancer. Are our cancer survival rates really that much better in recent decades, or are we just diagnosing cancers are earlier stages and many of them would never have developed into a dangerous stage, and the person would have died of something else first?
I guess if you aggressively test for something you will find it.
And if you factor in all the people who had covid but weren't diagnosed with it, maybe it's not that serious and lethal, and has been exaggerated, especially among younger, healthier people. But it's not politically correct to say that.
iris lilies
7-12-21, 2:26pm
Relax jeopy, i have had “moderate cold-like and lung symptoms” for months now. It all cleared up a week ago, but today—stuffed nose.
I won’t be going to the doctor because I lived with the stuff for decades and I know that it’s permanent allergy.
You are my kind of person IL - the opposite of a hypochondriac.
My understanding is that the sinus infection ones went to the doc because they just weren’t clearing and got tested which prompted everyone else to get tested.
ApatheticNoMore
7-12-21, 7:07pm
If I had symptoms that lingered months (not a few days or a couple weeks but months), I'd realize that I deserve decent healthcare (yes, I also have insurance), that doing without basic healthcare for who knows what reason is silly, and go to the doctor just to see. If the doc said it was no big deal, I wouldn't necessarily take a prescription. I don't think it always calls for meds.
I had a cough that lingered a few months once, I did eventually go to the doc, I just got prescription cough medicine, so no revelation.
But mostly we get so little from our doctors, as they rush through their 15 minutes as fast as they can, and we're somehow to blame (how absurd) for what most everyone will honestly acknowledge is a broken system, if we occasionally seek medical care.
This is kind of off-topic, sorry, but related somewhat to ANM's post. I received my Medicare statement today. A month or 6 weeks ago I went in for my checkup as requested by my provider. While there, she recommended I get the pneumonia shot. So I did. Wow. Medicare statement says provider charged 179.88 for the vaccine and 52.00 for its administration.
My provider charged $89 for my COVID shot.
iris lilies
7-12-21, 7:52pm
If I had symptoms that lingered months (not a few days or a couple weeks but months), I'd realize that I deserve decent healthcare (yes, I also have insurance), that doing without basic healthcare for who knows what reason is silly, and go to the doctor just to see. If the doc said it was no big deal, I wouldn't necessarily take a prescription. I don't think it always calls for meds.
I had a cough that lingered a few months once, I did eventually go to the doc, I just got prescription cough medicine, so no revelation.
But mostly we get so little from our doctors, as they rush through their 15 minutes as fast as they can, and we're somehow to blame (how absurd) for what most everyone will honestly acknowledge is a broken system, if we occasionally seek medical care.
But that is just what I live with.p, coughing and hacking during pollen season.
I will say that after the Scourge of 2019 where I was sick with severe respiratory crap for a year, I am willing to go thru allergy testing for a Potion and may do that in the fall. The Scourge of 2019 was each time set off by being for 8+ hours in an enclosed room with hundreds of plants. I didnt want to go to a Dr. who would tell me to stop visiting those plants for 8 hours.I suffered for my Art.
People who would be loath to ever file a homeowners insurance claim or small auto insurance claim because it will raise their rates have no similar qualms about going to the doctor. What do they think drives medical premium increases?
This is why medical inflation is right up there with higher ed inflation. Though in the pandemic I have seen some universities advertising they are freezing their tuition. Nothing comparable is happening in healthcare.
Every week, I see heroic people who declined to visit the doctor, because they didn't want to bother the doctor for something minor, or who didn't want to deal with the co-pay, or who didn't want the bother of scheduling and going to an appointment.
Typically I see them in crisis, in the middle of the night, as we load them into the ambulance to get them to the chopper to medevac them to a higher level of care, in hope that they might live.
So, don't follow Dr. Yppej's advice, please. It is quite a bit more expansive to have a paramedic, an EMT, several firefighters, an ambulance, a chopper, a chopper pilot, and a couple of flight nurses take care of you than to get proper preventative care and catch things early.
Every day something is wrong with me. Today my back ached, yesterday my foot was sore, the day before my skin was dry and cracking, and the list goes on. Maybe I should go to the doctor every day.
Heard today from a place in West Virginia and it may be a go for a mask free eye exam. I could combine that with seeing Harper's Ferry which I've been interested in for years.
Heard today from a place in West Virginia and it may be a go for a mask free eye exam. I could combine that with seeing Harper's Ferry which I've been interested in for years.
I'd wrap my head in gauze and duct tape to avoid driving more than a couple of miles, but that's just me.
My work offered us the vaccines and I took it because it was nearly impossible to get an appointment where I lived because I am not "high risk". My husband got his through his doctor since he is diabetic. Oldest got his through his work and youngest got his through his school. I only got it because I knew eventually everything would open up and only vaccinated people would be able to go maskless. I wasn't going to miss out on that.
My work offered us the vaccines and I took it because it was nearly impossible to get an appointment where I lived because I am not "high risk". My husband got his through his doctor since he is diabetic. Oldest got his through his work and youngest got his through his school. I only got it because I knew eventually everything would open up and only vaccinated people would be able to go maskless. I wasn't going to miss out on that.
That was my motivation, too, to be able to hang out with my granddaughters and my mother in memory care.
That was my motivation, too, to be able to hang out with my granddaughters and my mother in memory care.
:+1:
That was my motivation, too, to be able to hang out with my granddaughters and my mother in memory care.
My motivations were:
- required for work
- didn't want to spread covid to patients
- didn't want to catch covid from patients, or tourists
- didn't want to kill my ~80 year old parents, who rely upon me for assistance
- a faint hope I would develop superpowers, or at least grow tentacles
My motivation was very simple - it was the most loving act I could do to ensure that I was healthy and available to help those in need, protected family and friends and gave others peace of mind when in my presence that I was acting responsibly in my community. It is a no-brainer unless one has serious contra-indications. which some do.
Motivation: I wanted to do my part to get life back to normal as much as possible without the added stress of worrying about getting it or giving it.
ApatheticNoMore
7-13-21, 7:50pm
My motivation: I didn't want to get the virus and it is not in my hands to completely avoid it. I was able to get the vaccine through work, I didn't expect work to cut us slack if we didn't want to go back to the office for virus-fear reasons (although they are far more open to work from home than I expected - it's all good), being that they made the vaccine available to us.
So the virus or the vaccine - yea a no-brainer.
happystuff
7-13-21, 9:57pm
My motivation is the same as always and the same as why I still often wear a mask - to protect myself and others.
iris lilies
7-13-21, 10:18pm
Just call me jeppy because I was cranky a couple days ago about wearing a mask. A nursery where we went to buy plants had a sign that said we must wear a mask on their premises and if we are inside their building without a mask, we will be asked to leave.
I’m fine with wearing a mask inside. I’m fine with wearing a mask even outside if we’re shoulder to shoulder crowded like many festivals and street fairs are.
But I’ll be damned if I wear a mask, outside, with hardly anyone else around. Fortunately I glanced over the fence before going in to see if any customers actually had masks on and they did not. We did all of our shopping outside. It is a plant nursery and there’s no reason to go indoors.
Overkill.
happystuff
7-13-21, 10:50pm
Just call me jeppy because I was cranky a couple days ago about wearing a mask. A nursery where we went to buy plants had a sign that said we must wear a mask on their premises and if we are inside their building without a mask, we will be asked to leave.
I’m fine with wearing a mask inside. I’m fine with wearing a mask even outside if we’re shoulder to shoulder crowded like many festivals and street fairs are.
But I’ll be damned if I wear a mask, outside, with hardly anyone else around. Fortunately I glanced over the fence before going in to see if any customers actually had masks on and they did not. We did all of our shopping outside. It is a plant nursery and there’s no reason to go indoors.
Overkill.
It's called "comon sense". Some people have it - ànd use it! - and some people don't.
Teacher Terry
7-14-21, 1:20am
My reasons are the same as Razz and Catherine’s.
It seemed like the prudent thing to do. As I've said ad nauseum, I'm not one to seek out unnecessary treatment or medication, but there are--to my mind--compelling reasons to get this particular vaccine. Barring medical issues, I can't fathom not getting it. The growing anti-vax hysteria, with attendees at CPAC applauding the unvaccinated, is downright scary.
The growing anti-vax hysteria, with attendees at CPAC applauding the unvaccinated, is downright scary.
And the Tennessee health official responsible for vaccinations being fired for putting out a memo that stated that certain teens can be vaccinated without their parent's permission, which is settled case law in the state. Or the Missouri governor tweeting nonsense about not wanting "government agents going door to door compelling" people to get vaxxed despite the fact that it won't in fact be government agents and that people getting vaxxed is actually a good thing. When did republicans become the party of death?
iris lilies
7-14-21, 10:58am
And the Tennessee health official responsible for vaccinations being fired for putting out a memo that stated that certain teens can be vaccinated without their parent's permission, which is settled case law in the state. Or the Missouri governor tweeting nonsense about not wanting "government agents going door to door compelling" people to get vaxxed despite the fact that it won't in fact be government agents and that people getting vaxxed is actually a good thing. When did republicans become the party of death?
I don’t spend my time, as you do, combing news reports to focus on the MSM genned up outrage-of -the -day- story, but could it be this concept you are talking about?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/conservatives-distort-bidens-pledge-knock-doors-people-vaccinated/story?id=78731796
Seems to me that if my local government health agency or Mayor calls for “community” people to knock on my door, it seems a specious splitting of hairs for you to claim they are not “government agents.” If you mean they aren’t being paid by the government, you don’t know how St. Louis operates.
I would not open my doors to a stranger claiming they are there to get me vaccinated. It seems the low-income neighborhoods that are the targets of these campaigns are the most crime ridden and least likely to open their doors.
iris lilies
7-14-21, 11:05am
I would not open my doors to a stranger claiming they are there to get me vaccinated. It seems the low-income neighborhoods that are the targets of these campaigns are the most crime ridden and least likely to open their doors.
Is that where these community workers i.e. government agents are going to go, into low income neighborhoods? Is that their target? I don’t know what daddy Joe is intending here. One of his agents will have to explain it to me.
IL in my city that is what they targeted. It was densely populated areas near the city center and they started with subsidized housing projects.
I would not open my doors to a stranger claiming they are there to get me vaccinated. It seems the low-income neighborhoods that are the targets of these campaigns are the most crime ridden and least likely to open their doors.
Is that where these community workers i.e. government agents are going to go, into low income neighborhoods? Is that their target? I don’t know what daddy Joe is intending here. One of his agents will have to explain it to me.
IL in my city that is what they targeted. It was densely populated areas near the city center and they started with subsidized housing projects.
On the news, that is where the efforts are being shown especially in the Washington DC area.
I don’t spend my time, as you do, combing news reports to focus on the MSM genned up outrage-of -the -day- story, but could it be this concept you are talking about?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/conservatives-distort-bidens-pledge-knock-doors-people-vaccinated/story?id=78731796
Seems to me that if my local government health agency or Mayor calls for “community” people to knock on my door, it seems a specious splitting of hairs for you to claim they are not “government agents.” If you mean they aren’t being paid by the government, you don’t know how St. Louis operates.
It must be a bummer living someplace that is so corrupt that no one would want to volunteer to do something that will save people's lives. And where the governor would rather have people die than have any effort made to try and help keep people safe from a deadly disease.
I understand that community members--church workers and the like--will go out and reassure people and answer their vaccine questions. And maybe even arrange for transportation, if necessary. It doesn't seem like an ominous development to me.
iris lilies
7-14-21, 11:53am
I understand that community members--church workers and the like--will go out and reassure people and answer their vaccine questions. And maybe even arrange for transportation, if necessary. It doesn't seem like an ominous development to me.
Only annoying, not ominous or frightening.
No more annoying than the Jehovahs Witnesses knocking on my door in non-Covid times.well, As I think about it, it is annoying that at some point some tax dollars will go to this effort I’m sure, St. Louis is not gonna get free labor.
to jp I say, hope you are out there volunteering your time in your community to convince your “idiots” to get a vaccine. That takes a bit more effort than typing potshots on the internet.
In my husband's office of 6 people, 3 of them are vaccinated and 3 are not. They have no plans to get the shot. They told my husband that they don't want to grow "beaver tails" meaning they are afraid of the long term side effects and don't want to risk it. Well, one ended up with Covid and the other two had to quarantine as well.
Now that new reports of different side effects from J&J are out more people will see themselves as justified in refusing vaccination.
ApatheticNoMore
7-14-21, 12:25pm
They go to low income neighborhoods because that's where vaccination is lowest (it is also of course where covid was highest).
to jp I say, hope you are out there volunteering your time in your community to convince your “idiots” to get a vaccine. That takes a bit more effort than typing potshots on the internet.
92% of the 12+ population of my county has received at least one dose. 85% are fully vaccinated. I doubt there will be evil government agents spending much time here. And let's be honest, judging from the reaction to me here it's probably just as well that I'm not out knocking on doors. Maybe I need to learn to care less that people are needlessly dying of a preventable disease.
iris lilies
7-14-21, 12:47pm
They go to low income neighborhoods because that's where vaccination is lowest (it is also of course where covid was highest).
In my city where everything is about race, this will be about race. Race shaming and etc.
I can hardly wait.
iris lilies
7-14-21, 12:49pm
92% of the 12+ population of my county has received at least one dose. 85% are fully vaccinated. I doubt there will be evil government agents spending much time here. And let's be honest, judging from the reaction to me here it's probably just as well that I'm not out knocking on doors. Maybe I need to learn to care less that people are needlessly dying of a preventable disease.
you can “care” (a feeling) and type or not type on a key board (an action.) They are two separate things. One doesnt necessarily follow the other.
Not sure if you knew that, but I am happy to clear that up if not. :)
It definitely is about race and politics, because people are not targeting the rural Trump voters who don't want to get vaccinated. They are not looking for vaccine ambassadors driving a pickup with a gun rack and a blue lives matter bumper sticker to go out and knock on doors in the country.
you can “care” (a feeling) and type or not type on a key board (an action.) They are two separate things. One doesnt necessarily follow the other.
Not sure if you knew that, but I am happy to clear that up if not. :)
So I should sit down and shut up. Just like Colin Kaepernik should’ve just played football. Got it.
Now that new reports of different side effects from J&J are out more people will see themselves as justified in refusing vaccination.
A hundred Guillen-Barre sufferers, one death out of 12.5 million or so shots doesn't seem like bad odds. Supposedly, if you're going to come down with G-B, it will be within two weeks of getting vaccinated, so I seem to have emerged unscathed.
A hundred Guillen-Barre sufferers, one death out of 12.5 million or so shots doesn't seem like bad odds. Supposedly, if you're going to come down with G-B, it will be within two weeks of getting vaccinated, so I seem to have emerged unscathed.
Some of the unvaccinated aren't using logic in their decision. At least not near me. Most of the people who won't get vaccinated aren't doing it because of reactions or side effects. They just believe they don't need to get vaccinated and they will take their chances getting Covid or not. Granted, where I am, the cases have always been low to none so the "odds" are in their favor from the start to not get the shot.
Some of the unvaccinated aren't using logic in their decision. At least not near me. Most of the people who won't get vaccinated aren't doing it because of reactions or side effects. They just believe they don't need to get vaccinated and they will take their chances getting Covid or not. Granted, where I am, the cases have always been low to none so the "odds" are in their favor from the start to not get the shot.
I rarely come down with illnesses going around and I've historically had a robust immune system, so I've always been sanguine about the seasonal flu and other annoyances, but I have zero desire to take my chances with a virus that could have me hooked to a respirator, consigned to dialysis, suffering brain damage, or worse. A shot with a minuscule chance of side effects seems like the proverbial no-brainer.
iris lilies
7-14-21, 1:58pm
So I should sit down and shut up….
Babe, you said it, not me. Yes, a little respite would be nice.
Perhaps when you are considering yourself in the same league as Colin Caspernack’s circle of influence, you might just consider that a wee bit of grandiosity in your thinking.
iris lilies
7-14-21, 2:02pm
I rarely come down with illnesses going around and I've historically had a robust immune system, so I've always been sanguine about the seasonal flu and other annoyances, but I have zero desire to take my chances with a virus that could have me hooked to a respirator, consigned to dialysis, suffering brain damage, or worse. A shot with a minuscule chance of side effects seems like the proverbial no-brainer.
While the overall Death and long Covid effect is a small percentage, when you look at my demographic, old l/fat/high blood pressure /lung involvement, the odds shoot up. The game does not look good for me.
I would be interested in studies that should be coming out now about long Covid. At our condo social a couple weeks ago which pretty much an over-55 community, one woman was feeling effects of the Covid virus after being sick with it in January 2 021. Six months later and she doesn’t have strength and is very easily made tired.
Teacher Terry
7-14-21, 2:11pm
IL, the odds didn’t look good for me either having asthma and HBP as well as being fat. The last one is the only thing I have control over hence getting serious about my weight.
frugal-one
7-14-21, 2:11pm
I don’t spend my time, as you do, combing news reports to focus on the MSM genned up outrage-of -the -day- story, but could it be this concept you are talking about?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/conservatives-distort-bidens-pledge-knock-doors-people-vaccinated/story?id=78731796
Seems to me that if my local government health agency or Mayor calls for “community” people to knock on my door, it seems a specious splitting of hairs for you to claim they are not “government agents.” If you mean they aren’t being paid by the government, you don’t know how St. Louis operates.
I would rather these people be paid than those who continue ad naseum to recount ballots!
frugal-one
7-14-21, 2:18pm
Babe, you said it, not me. Yes, a little respite would be nice.
Perhaps when you are considering yourself in the same league as Colin Caspernack’s circle of influence, you might just consider that a wee bit of grandiosity in your thinking.
The same could be said for you too IL. .. or any of us, for that matter.
iris lilies
7-14-21, 2:36pm
The same could be said for you too IL. .. or any of us, for that matter.
At minimum, we should probably keep discussions like this in the Politics forum which is cleverly titled “Simple Public Policy” but doesnt really fool anyone.
I also like and enjoy jp and wish he wasn't made so unhappy by …stuff in the news. I like him because he never plays victim.He is always (according to his world view anyway) looking out for others which I accept as a sincerely held principle.
ApatheticNoMore
7-14-21, 2:47pm
In my city where everything is about race, this will be about race. Race shaming and etc.
I can hardly wait.
I look at county data because I am always looking at a fair amount of data anyway, although yea it tends to confirm my priors, of who it hit and who isn't vaccinated as much (poorer areas often overlapping with minority areas)
Babe, you said it, not me. Yes, a little respite would be nice.
Perhaps when you are considering yourself in the same league as Colin Caspernack’s circle of influence, you might just consider that a wee bit of grandiosity in your thinking.
I get it. It's not much fun to repeatedly have examples shown to you that the leaders of your favored political party are actively taking steps that will cause people to die because it helps them politically.
And you're right. i'm certainly not Colin Kaepernik. I can only dream of being as honorable as he is.
I rarely come down with illnesses going around and I've historically had a robust immune system, so I've always been sanguine about the seasonal flu and other annoyances, but I have zero desire to take my chances with a virus that could have me hooked to a respirator, consigned to dialysis, suffering brain damage, or worse. A shot with a minuscule chance of side effects seems like the proverbial no-brainer.
I agree 100%. I don't get sick nor do I get flu shots but I did get the Covid vaccine because it could be mild symptoms or a matter of life and death. You just never know.
Chicken lady
7-14-21, 7:00pm
It definitely is about race and politics, because people are not targeting the rural Trump voters who don't want to get vaccinated. They are not looking for vaccine ambassadors driving a pickup with a gun rack and a blue lives matter bumper sticker to go out and knock on doors in the country.
those are my neighbors.
1) that imaginary volunteer believes they have a right to make their own choices free of his input.
2) there is a non-negligible risk that you will be “targeted” back.
I see by my state COVID dashboard that King County's vaccination rate is around 80% for those eligible, with somewhere around 5% "hesitancy rate." That's pretty encouraging.
ApatheticNoMore
7-14-21, 8:04pm
Targeting people who don't want to get vaccinated is going to by definition be uphill compared to targeting those who may have had difficulty getting vaccinated
But what category of the two is anyone in, urban blacks, rural whites, poor hispanics etc..? Does anyone still have difficulty and why does anyone still have difficulty? I have no idea and I don't know if anyone else does either (public health people should but they haven't exactly shown their competence during this pandemic). But stuff like asking for an insurance card can be intimidating if you don't have trust you won't get charged etc..
That's kind of how the vaccine rollout (the vaccines themselves are great) seems to not have been done well in many ways, there wasn't an all out push after the low hanging fruit was picked.
Thought that you might find this article https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/17/covid-misinformation-conspiracy-theories-ccdh-report?utm_term=8b32dbbcff738970d38d40fbe1a40dcb&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email interesting to read. Twelve people - 12 - are able to have that much influence using misinformation via social media on those fearful of the vaccine.
Teacher Terry
7-18-21, 2:02pm
Facebook banned 3 of them. A doctor in that group is claiming all vaccinated people will be dead in 3 years. There’s many people on City Data forum that believe this garbage.
Facebook banned 3 of them. A doctor in that group is claiming all vaccinated people will be dead in 3 years. There’s many people on City Data forum that believe this garbage.
Does that count the Russian disinformation specialists, one wonders. They work hard to cause chaos, and it appears they're succeeding.
ApatheticNoMore
7-18-21, 2:38pm
As for Florida which we are all supposed to emulate, they are only releasing case numbers once a week, most (maybe all?) other states are doing so daily. So they'll never catch a wave before the undertow.
Yes I'm wearing masks again ... in the gym today, I'm vaxed, it's hot, it is what it is. :treadmill:
iris lilies
7-18-21, 3:26pm
Thought that you might find this article https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/17/covid-misinformation-conspiracy-theories-ccdh-report?utm_term=8b32dbbcff738970d38d40fbe1a40dcb&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email interesting to read. Twelve people - 12 - are able to have that much influence using misinformation via social media on those fearful of the vaccine.
RFK jr is the only name I recognize on that list.
RFK jr is the only name I recognize on that list.
I tried in two places to access the list but it requires I give my personal info, and I am not prepared to do that. I heard the NPR story about RFK Jr. movie about black community's sufferings at hands of medical community, which he has asserted means black community should not get vaccinated--so I went and signed up to see that film, which then put me on his mailing list, Children's Defense something or other. So they have many doctors there saying all vaccines dangerous, and reporting lots of ill effects of vaccines.
I'd prefer everyone be allowed to say what they think about vaccines, and not have this suppression of ideas.
iris lilies
7-18-21, 7:00pm
I tried in two places to access the list but it requires I give my personal info, and I am not prepared to do that. I heard the NPR story about RFK Jr. movie about black community's sufferings at hands of medical community, which he has asserted means black community should not get vaccinated--so I went and signed up to see that film, which then put me on his mailing list, Children's Defense something or other. So they have many doctors there saying all vaccines dangerous, and reporting lots of ill effects of vaccines.
I'd prefer everyone be allowed to say what they think about vaccines, and not have this suppression of ideas.
Now The Guardian won’t let me see the list, but earlier it did. I suppose it gives me X- viewings per month or somesuch thing.
I agree with you, sunshine is a good thing, shine a light on the bad ideas.
I was able to see the list--I recognized 3, RFK Jr, Mercola, and Northrup. Mercola is a "natural wellness" type MD, and Northrup is a new age-y women's health & empowerment guru. I have to admit that I'm surprised at how short that list is, but it probably speaks to the number of followers on their Twitter feeds more than anything else.
I'd prefer everyone be allowed to say what they think about vaccines, and not have this suppression of ideas.
Yes. I’d especially prefer that the White House not be in the business of flagging people they would like to see social media ban.
ApatheticNoMore
7-19-21, 4:26pm
They are mostly a bunch of grifters I would be glad to never hear from again, those I recognize (who doesn't recognize Mercola as a grifter for instance).
I heard the NPR story about RFK Jr. movie about black community's sufferings at hands of medical community, which he has asserted means black community should not get vaccinated
I can't imagine anyone saying "oh rich white guy and his trust fund, says black people shouldn't get vaccinated, well that settles it". Well off white people meanwhile ... they get vaccinated at high rates. Watch what people actually do.
iris lilies
7-19-21, 4:29pm
Robert Kennedy’s children, the people who are my age and are now seniors, have always irritated me. Some of them anyway and this guy RFK JR. is one of them. I’m gratified to see one of them acting as stupidly as I suspected he was.
Dr. Mercola was my doctor for about six months, and I thought he was nuts.
Personally I’d like people to be smart enough to recognize that when people post lies about things that can cause death if believed not believe those lies. But that isnt going to happen anytime soon…
iris lilies
7-19-21, 8:19pm
Dr. Mercola was my doctor for about six months, and I thought he was nuts.
Whoah, seriously! Yikes.
frugal-one
7-19-21, 9:14pm
Dr. Mercola was my doctor for about six months, and I thought he was nuts.
Interesting... Why do you say this?
Heard today from a place in West Virginia and it may be a go for a mask free eye exam. I could combine that with seeing Harper's Ferry which I've been interested in for years.
No response to my follow up email so it looks like it won't happen, unless the person handling emails is on vacation or something. That is OK. I will just wait until life becomes more normal and try again.
iris lilies
7-22-21, 5:21pm
No response to my follow up email so it looks like it won't happen, unless the person handling emails is on vacation or something. That is OK. I will just wait until life becomes more normal and try again.
I said I remember you said you had a fairy really serious eye problem. Why don’t you go to a really good practitioner and see what they are recommending for you? I can’t believe that your situation is unique. Sorry I just don’t believe it.
I said I remember you said you had a fairy really serious eye problem. Why don’t you go to a really good practitioner and see what they are recommending for you? I can’t believe that your situation is unique. Sorry I just don’t believe it.
My Massachusetts provider was not willing to work around masks, although there has always been an exception for medical reasons. They are the best eye provider in the area. They did give me my records at no charge so I can go elsewhere.
happystuff
7-22-21, 7:40pm
My Massachusetts provider was not willing to work around masks, although there has always been an exception for medical reasons. They are the best eye provider in the area. They did give me my records at no charge so I can go elsewhere.
So you are willing to forego treatment for a known, fairly serious eye condition because you won't wear a mask for the length of a dr's appointment?!?!?! Wow! So sorry for you.
If I were administering eye tests that require being right up in someone's face, I would want that person vaccinated and masked, as I would be as well--especially as the Delta variant rages on. I'm not surprised so many clinics expect no less.
If both the examiner and examinee are vaccinated they are at a much lower risk of getting covid than catching something like the common cold from the other person.
What is a typical breakthrough infection? A person who feels perfectly fine but gets tested for some reason or other, never gets symptoms, isn't hospitalized, and doesn't die. Think an Olympic athlete subject to routine testing missing out on a once in four years opportunity because of a positive test that is no more significant than being told your blood is B positive.
But fear drives the media and they inspire paranoia in certain people.
happystuff
7-22-21, 9:01pm
I don't think fear and/or paranoia have anything to do with your unwillingness to wear a mask for the length of a dr's appointment resulting in you foregoing treatment for a known, fairly serious eye condition. Again, so sorry for you.
I don't think fear and/or paranoia have anything to do with your unwillingness to wear a mask for the length of a dr's appointment resulting in you foregoing treatment for a known, fairly serious eye condition. Again, so sorry for you.
"For most people central serous retinopathy disappears on its own with no medical intervention."
Source:
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320606#complications
Of course someone who is afraid, paranoid, or just uninformed could make it out to be much worse than it is.
happystuff
7-22-21, 9:31pm
"For most people central serous retinopathy disappears on its own with no medical intervention."
Source:
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320606#complications
Of course someone who is afraid, paranoid, or just uninformed could make it out to be much worse than it is.
Oh, okay. I thought you were concerned about your health enough to go to a dr. but I guess that is not the case, based on what you say here, so why bother looking for one at all - mask requirement or not?
If I were a doctor I would be doing all I could to avoid getting infected, including both wearing a mask and making my patients wear masks. One of the absolute last things I, as this theoretical health professional, would want is to be responsible for spreading a deadly pandemic. That’s not a very healthcare-ish thing to do.
Some common sense should come into play. My dentist did not make me wear a mask because they could not clean my teeth if I did.
Similarly if a mask clouds up someone's vision they shouldn't have to wear it during an eye exam.
happystuff
7-23-21, 8:01am
If I were a doctor I would be doing all I could to avoid getting infected, including both wearing a mask and making my patients wear masks. One of the absolute last things I, as this theoretical health professional, would want is to be responsible for spreading a deadly pandemic. That’s not a very healthcare-ish thing to do.
I agree. Even if the dr masked up, I would not want to be that patient next in line after the patient that did NOT wear a mask, especially for the often up-close and personal parts of an eye examine.
In answer to the question in the OP--my daughter and son-in-law :(
I think my daughter is following her husband's lead, which is surprising, because she's usually very independent-minded, but he is a bit of a rebel in general, and he is not doing it because of skepticism and paranoia, and my daughter, for some reason, is following his lead.
So it has impacted the family in that my son and DIL refuse to be with them during family gatherings (rightfully so) because they have two small children, unvaccinated. In less than 2 weeks, my NJ son will be coming up for vacation, and we'll all be together at multiple occasions, and it's going to exclude my daughter from many of these activities.
Such a shame. Not sure she realizes the position she's putting the whole family in, but today's the day I'm going to lay it on the line (DH has repeatedly told her to get vaccinated in text messages). I know she would bend, but I wonder if she would now put the shoe on the other foot and be able to influence her husband.
happystuff
7-23-21, 9:08am
In answer to the question in the OP--my daughter and son-in-law :(
I think my daughter is following her husband's lead, which is surprising, because she's usually very independent-minded, but he is a bit of a rebel in general, and he is not doing it because of skepticism and paranoia, and my daughter, for some reason, is following his lead.
So it has impacted the family in that my son and DIL refuse to be with them during family gatherings (rightfully so) because they have two small children, unvaccinated. In less than 2 weeks, my NJ son will be coming up for vacation, and we'll all be together at multiple occasions, and it's going to exclude my daughter from many of these activities.
Such a shame. Not sure she realizes the position she's putting the whole family in, but today's the day I'm going to lay it on the line (DH has repeatedly told her to get vaccinated in text messages). I know she would bend, but I wonder if she would now put the shoe on the other foot and be able to influence her husband.
I'm sorry your family is being impacted. Unfortunately, if your event is less than two weeks away, she (and her dh if he changes his mind) still won't be two weeks out from a first shot, let alone have the completion of the 2nd shot.
The Delta variant is said to be 1000 times more transmissible than the original version, in a matter of seconds--and as long as people refuse to get vaccinated, there will be ever-more mutations--any one of which might be more deadly than COVID is now. So some may call it paranoia; I call it caution.
The Delta variant is said to be 1000 times more transmissible than the original version, in a matter of seconds--and as long as people refuse to get vaccinated, there will be ever-more mutations--any one of which might be more deadly than COVID is now. So some may call it paranoia; I call it caution.
Your post sounds like Trump "people are saying..."
Here is a link to an NPR story that states "The delta variant, which is more than two times as transmissible as the original strain of the coronavirus" not 1000 times more transmissible:
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/07/22/1019293200/the-lambda-variant-coronavirus-what-you-should-know
Also, the lambda variant which comes from Peru has been labelled by the WHO as only a variant of interest, not a variant of concern like Delta is.
If you believe everything that everyone says on social media you would be right to worry. I don't.
My son's in-laws. My dil just canceled a trip they had planned with the children because of the numbers going up and the Delta variant. MIL was very angry, but that's just the way it is--the grandparents are free to vaccinate or not, and the parents are free to make the safest decision for the children.
I wouldn't push anybody to get a vaccine, or shame them if they don't. I would certainly expect them to understand when people refuse to get together with them or let them be around the unvaccinated children. So they make their choice, and that's the reason I got vaccinated, so I could be around my grandchildren and elderly mom. They made a different choice, and I guess time will tell which choice is right, or maybe it will just be a matter of luck and odds.
Some common sense should come into play. My dentist did not make me wear a mask because they could not clean my teeth if I did.
Similarly if a mask clouds up someone's vision they shouldn't have to wear it during an eye exam.
I suppose eye docs could do as the American Dental Association recommends, which is to have patients swish hydrogen peroxide around in their mouths for 30 seconds at the start of the exam. Supposedly doing that kills off the virus that is currently in the mouth for long enough for the dentist to do their job without as much risk.
There are days when I wish the national message was "just get the damn vaccine" so we could quit dealing with the whole situation. I saw a news clip of an unvaccinated man being released from the hospital after a nasty bout with the virus. Asked if he would get the shot now, he said no since it was just experimental. The drug he was given in the hospital that may have lessened his misery was also emergency-authorized.
I suppose eye docs could do as the American Dental Association recommends, which is to have patients swish hydrogen peroxide around in their mouths for 30 seconds at the start of the exam. Supposedly doing that kills off the virus that is currently in the mouth for long enough for the dentist to do their job without as much risk.
My dentist did not have me do this. And anyways the virus is not transmitted through the eye or the forehead that rests against the machine you look into for eye exams.
iris lilies
7-23-21, 11:25am
In answer to the question in the OP--my daughter and son-in-law :(
I think my daughter is following her husband's lead, which is surprising, because she's usually very independent-minded, but he is a bit of a rebel in general, and he is not doing it because of skepticism and paranoia, and my daughter, for some reason, is following his lead.
So it has impacted the family in that my son and DIL refuse to be with them during family gatherings (rightfully so) because they have two small children, unvaccinated. In less than 2 weeks, my NJ son will be coming up for vacation, and we'll all be together at multiple occasions, and it's going to exclude my daughter from many of these activities.
Such a shame. Not sure she realizes the position she's putting the whole family in, but today's the day I'm going to lay it on the line (DH has repeatedly told her to get vaccinated in text messages). I know she would bend, but I wonder if she would now put the shoe on the other foot and be able to influence her husband.
There’s nothing wrong with having the unvaccinated suffer the social consequences of not being vaccinated. Their body, their choice, and their consequences.
I cheerfully tell all of our friends that DH is not vaccinated and be sure and treat him accordingly. No problem! It doesn’t have to be done with meanness, it’s just a fact: No vax, no come near me.
This week DH had his semi annual doctors appointment and I thought his doctor would read him the riot act. According to DH, if I am to believe what DH says, the doctor didn’t argue with him but did say he urges DH to get a vaccine.
Jane v2.0
7-23-21, 11:37am
Your post sounds like Trump "people are saying..."
...
If you believe everything that everyone says on social media you would be right to worry. I don't.
I get none of my COVID information from social media (though I admit to reading FB comments with hair afire), but I admit to paying attention to the Drs. Gupta (Vin and Sanjay), Redlener, Hotez, Kevita Patel, Jha, the CDC, etc. on various MSM outlets.
From a Houston Chronicle interview with Dr. Peter Hotez:
I’ve been hearing that with delta, the viral load is more than 1,000 times higher than with that original-lineage virus, the one from 2020. What does that mean? It’s a preliminary finding posted on a CDC discussion group. The study is from Guangdong province in southern China. It looks pretty credible, but it’s not yet been peer-reviewed.
At any rate, Delta seems to be considerably more transmissible than the original.
At this point I think it would take employer mandates to get a significant number of adults vaccinated and that won't happen for the most part because there is a labor shortage.
frugal-one
7-23-21, 1:00pm
Your post sounds like Trump "people are saying..."
Here is a link to an NPR story that states "The delta variant, which is more than two times as transmissible as the original strain of the coronavirus" not 1000 times more transmissible:
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/07/22/1019293200/the-lambda-variant-coronavirus-what-you-should-know
Also, the lambda variant which comes from Peru has been labelled by the WHO as only a variant of interest, not a variant of concern like Delta is.
If you believe everything that everyone says on social media you would be right to worry. I don't.
BS.... (see bold above).
The variant is more transmissible PERIOD (to what degree is irrelevant). Any reasonable person would try to avoid getting. Quit your whining and, if you don't want to wear a mask, stay away from places where they are required. As others have stated here, it is a prudent doc that wears a mask. He/she is in contact with all kinds of people. They should not put themselves or any of their patients at risk.
frugal-one
7-23-21, 1:02pm
My son's in-laws. My dil just canceled a trip they had planned with the children because of the numbers going up and the Delta variant. MIL was very angry, but that's just the way it is--the grandparents are free to vaccinate or not, and the parents are free to make the safest decision for the children.
I wouldn't push anybody to get a vaccine, or shame them if they don't. I would certainly expect them to understand when people refuse to get together with them or let them be around the unvaccinated children. So they make their choice, and that's the reason I got vaccinated, so I could be around my grandchildren and elderly mom. They made a different choice, and I guess time will tell which choice is right, or maybe it will just be a matter of luck and odds.
I'm not sure I agree because we are never going to be done with COVID if people are not responsible. The variants will continue to mutate and cause more problems.
frugal-one
7-23-21, 1:04pm
There’s nothing wrong with having the unvaccinated suffer the social consequences of not being vaccinated. Their body, their choice, and their consequences.
I cheerfully tell all of our friends that DH is not vaccinated and be sure and treat him accordingly. No problem! It doesn’t have to be done with meanness, it’s just a fact: No vax, no come near me.
This week DH had his semi annual doctors appointment and I thought his doctor would read him the riot act. According to DH, if I am to believe what DH says, the doctor didn’t argue with him but did say he urges DH to get a vaccine.
Now young children are being infected so there are consequences. How long does the virus stay in the air? He could be infecting without realizing. It is a sad state of affairs IMO.
happystuff
7-23-21, 1:08pm
BS.... (see bold above).
The variant is more transmissible PERIOD (to what degree is irrelevant). Any reasonable person would try to avoid getting. Quit your whining and, if you don't want to wear a mask, stay away from places where they are required. As others have stated here, it is a prudent doc that wears a mask. He/she is in contact with all kinds of people. They should not put themselves or any of their patients at risk.
Any reasonable person and any person with or claiming to have common sense - yes.
But, more often than not, selfishness trumps (intentional wordage - roflol) common sense - and compassion for others, as well.
ApatheticNoMore
7-23-21, 1:19pm
I'm not sure I agree because we are never going to be done with COVID if people are not responsible. The variants will continue to mutate and cause more problems.
I don't see that as a problem that shaming can solve. Because it's a global virus, as long as it exists in the rest of the world variants will continue to mutate, unless we had closed borders they will come here.
Now one could argue instead that the unvaccinated are creating a world of torment for say healthcare workers, and I don't doubt it. I can't imagine they like to see people dying for no reason that could have just got the vax. How much can people whose job it is to help the sick, take of people not taking the simplest measures to help themselves?
My dentist did not have me do this. And anyways the virus is not transmitted through the eye or the forehead that rests against the machine you look into for eye exams.
Do you hold your breath the whole time you’re at the eye doc? We all learned quite some time ago that surfaces are a very minor transmission route of covid.
Do you hold your breath the whole time you’re at the eye doc? We all learned quite some time ago that surfaces are a very minor transmission route of covid.
I am vaccinated. I don't need to.
What does shaming do? Lead to the sale of fake vaccination cards online.
happystuff
7-23-21, 2:34pm
I don't get why people are using the term "shaming" with regards to masking, not masking, getting vaccinated or not getting vaccinated. For example, facts say masks help against the virus - help protect the person wearing the mask and help protect others around them at the same time. Pointing out that someone is whining when they ARE whining is being truthful about a behavior. If that person ends up being ashamed because of their own behavior, that's on them. If they don't, again, that's on them.
However, from a different perspective, I guess it could be "shaming" in the sense that - if vaccinated or not, you don't wear a mask and you get sick, that is a consequence of your own behavior; however, don't wear a mask and make someone else sick - shame on you! Okay, I can see the "shaming" in that.
Just got off my weekly team meeting call at work. Coworker from Idaho announced he's got Covid and then dropped off the call.
I don't know for sure he's unvaxxed (nobody asked) but I'd guess he isn't. He didn't look good.
iris lilies
7-23-21, 3:02pm
I don't get why people are using the term "shaming" with regards to masking, not masking, getting vaccinated or not getting vaccinated. For example, facts say masks help against the virus - help protect the person wearing the mask and help protect others around them at the same time. Pointing out that someone is whining when they ARE whining is being truthful about a behavior. If that person ends up being ashamed because of their own behavior, that's on them. If they don't, again, that's on them.
However, from a different perspective, I guess it could be "shaming" in the sense that - if vaccinated or not, you don't wear a mask and you get sick, that is a consequence of your own behavior; however, don't wear a mask and make someone else sick - shame on you! Okay, I can see the "shaming" in that.
I have learned from many years hanging out on the internet that it is “shaming” depending on who says it and what side they are on vis-à-vis the observers of the “shaming.” In other words, shaming is wrong until it’s right.
Me, I’ve got little problem with shaming. Shame can be a useful societal tool to address behavior. It isn’t always effective though, and sometimes it’s the opposite.
Since no one here is claiming to be unvaccinated, all the ranting about it isn’t really shaming in my opinion, it’s just ranting.
“Public shaming “is a standard checkbox for reporting posts on Nextdoor.
happystuff
7-23-21, 3:12pm
I am vaccinated. I don't need to.
The vaccine doesn't keep you from getting or passing along the virus! It - hopefully - keeps you alive should you get it or any of the variants - again, hopefully.
The vaccine doesn't keep you from getting or passing along the virus! It - hopefully - keeps you alive should you get it or any of the variants - again, hopefully.
Oh ye of little faith, vaccines do work.
ApatheticNoMore
7-23-21, 3:37pm
The vaccine doesn't keep you from getting or passing along the virus! It - hopefully - keeps you alive should you get it or any of the variants - again, hopefully.
Realistically probably keeps you from even getting symptoms if you get any of the variants. Latest New England Journal of Medicine article's estimate was 88% effectiveness against symptomatic infection against Delta with Pfizer FWIW. And that's symptoms, death and hospitalizations much more so.
Almost certainly reduces passing along the virus. The studies were saying make it half as likely but that may not have looked at the Delta strain. But even with the Delta strain I find it hard to believe it wouldn't reduce this.
If I had to wear a mask to go to the doctor I would. Of course I do and have. They made me replace a KN95 with a flimsy surgical mask :)
But I can understand resistance and for many people it's not about masks at this point, it's about ok so we have to go back to all restrictions again? Can't take, mentally or physically ....
But if Ebola broke out and everyone had Ebola, you'd take restrictions wouldn't you? I'd hide in my house and never leave or see another human being maybe (darn it they really should have stopped gain of function research when they could, as if we needed gain of function Ebola ...). We aren't there.
I am vaccinated. I don't need to.
Fortunately your eye doc understands covid better than you do.
Realistically probably keeps you from even getting symptoms if you get any of the variants. Latest New England Journal of Medicine article's estimate was 88% effectiveness against symptomatic infection against Delta with Pfizer FWIW. And that's symptoms, death and hospitalizations much more so.
If the Delta variant really is "a thousand" times more contagious than regular covid probably half or more of the country is walking around infected without knowing it. But we know that's not true because even with those who feel the need to get a test - either because they are symptomatic or because of possible exposure - the positivity rate is below 1% in many places including my state. So with rates that low, given that the test is not perfect and can generate false positives, I see no reason to be concerned. If I lived in a largely unvaccinated country I might feel differently.
Something like 100 members of the US Olympic team are not vaccinated. Will their game of Russian roulette turn out ok or will they destroy their, and potentially numerous other athlete’s Olympic dreams with their stupidity?
Something like 100 members of the US Olympic team are not vaccinated. Will their game of Russian roulette turn out ok or will they destroy their, and potentially numerous other athlete’s Olympic dreams with their stupidity?
Dreams are already being destroyed as people who feel fine can't compete because of a positive test.
Dreams are already being destroyed as people who feel fine can't compete because of a positive test.
Concern for other people’s health is so over-rated as I’ve been told by several people on these boards. Thanks for joining in although you’ve made it clear that that was your feeling from way back when you were joyously poking holes in your mask.
happystuff
7-23-21, 4:56pm
Oh ye of little faith, vaccines do work.
I didn't say that they didn't work, as they do provide protection. I said that they are not the magical prevent-all that you seem to think.
Edited to add: But you won't believe it until something happens and it hits your "immediate family" - which I hope and pray it never does. So go ahead and continue in ignorant bliss.
Edited again to add: But you don't seem very "blissful", so just go ahead and continue as you do if it keeps you at least a little happy.
Still sending sincere prayers and positive energies to you and yours.
Concern for other people’s health is so over-rated as I’ve been told by several people on these boards. Thanks for joining in although you’ve made it clear that that was your feeling from way back when you were joyously poking holes in your mask.
I wasn't joyous. Joyous would have been not having to deal with the smothering mask at all.
iris lilies
7-23-21, 5:43pm
Fortunately your eye doc understands covid better than you do.
Jp,Do you believe that 5+ inoculated Texas legislators came down with Covid? That would be 10% of the legislators in the infamous plane. I’m not terribly worried about a breakthrough Event for me because I’m avoiding large super spreader events and late night bars with lots of people. Although of course that is my normal lifestyle.
This is a good time for me to be getting on a plane except that – I’m not keen on being in an airport building with hundreds of people let alone being in a sky tube with hundreds of people.
Jp,Do you believe that 5+ inoculated Texas legislators came down with Covid? That would be 10% of the legislators in the infamous plane. I’m not terribly worried about a breakthrough Event for me because I’m avoiding large super spreader events and late night bars with lots of people. Although of course that is my normal lifestyle.
This is a good time for me to be getting on a plane except that – I’m not keen on being in an airport building with hundreds of people let alone being in a sky tube with hundreds of people.
I absolutely believe that 5 vaxxed Texan legislators got infected. And I believe that an eye doc spending a half hour in a small room that has poor ventilation with an infected person is at risk even if they are vaccinated. Vaccination lowers your chance of infection but doesn’t eliminate it if you get exposed to a large enough* amount of the virus. His and his patient’s masks may be just enough additional protection to prevent him from getting a large enough dose of virus from the patient.
*large enough differs from one person to the next. If the eye doc is 70 years old, has high blood pressure and is obese large enough is probably a lot smaller than if he’s 35 and healthy/fit.
happystuff
7-23-21, 6:07pm
This is a good time for me to be getting on a plane except that – I’m not keen on being in an airport building with hundreds of people let alone being in a sky tube with hundreds of people.
I totally agree with the hesitation.
I will say, however, that my trip last week was amazing with regards to masking protocols. In every airport - everyone complied!!! NO EXCEPTIONS! In every plane - everyone complied as required! I would say that infants were the exception, but I even saw an infant with a clear plastic face "mask"/covering! It was wonderful to see and I, personally, took it as a sign that the majority of people really do care!
I absolutely believe that 5 vaxxed Texan legislators got infected. And I believe that an eye doc spending a half hour in a small room that has poor ventilation with an infected person is at risk even if they are vaccinated. Vaccination lowers your chance of infection but doesn’t eliminate it if you get exposed to a large enough* amount of the virus. His and his patient’s masks may be just enough additional protection to prevent him from getting a large enough dose of virus from the patient.
*large enough differs from one person to the next. If the eye doc is 70 years old, has high blood pressure and is obese large enough is probably a lot smaller than if he’s 35 and healthy/fit.
So if I am not in close contact with others, work in a rural area and even then socially distance, and even the member of my own household avoids me
And my doctor is younger and slimmer than me
I should be good, especially where I'm vaccinated.
It's not like I'm flying around in a plane in close quarters with other people.
happystuff
7-23-21, 6:29pm
I should be good, especially where I'm vaccinated.
It's not like I'm flying around in a plane in close quarters with other people.
If you were in a plane, you would be required to be masked - vaccinated or not.
ApatheticNoMore
7-23-21, 6:38pm
In addition to masking, ventilation in commercial aircraft is supposedly pretty good. Private charter planes, your guess is as good as mine.
happystuff
7-23-21, 6:46pm
In addition to masking, ventilation in commercial aircraft is supposedly pretty good. Private charter planes, your guess is as good as mine.
Actually, the brochure on the plane said something to the effect of this google search result: All our planes are equipped with hospital-grade HEPA air filters, which remove 99.97% or more of particles, bacteria and viruses. This, combined with 100% compliance on mask-wearing by everyone, was very reassuring.
Hong Kong, early on in the pandemic, had a strict testing/quarantine protocol for everyone arriving at the airport. Get tested right after you arrived, quarantine two weeks after arrival and retest before leaving quarantine. Results were tallied by airline. Airlines with strict, consistent mask requirements had very few inflight infections. (People who tested negative initially but positive at the end of quarantine. ). Even on a flight with something like 27 positives on arrival masking had been enforced strictly so only one or two infections happened on the plane. Lax airlines tended to have a much higher transmission rate on board but still not nearly as bad as one would expect for people spending many hours packed together in a sealed tube. So yeah, airplanes are reasonably safe, especially if people are good about staying masked. Even if people aren’t always masked they aren’t bad except for the fact that a plane flight is quite a bit longer than the typical amount of time spent at the grocery store or wherever.
iris lilies
7-23-21, 7:14pm
In addition to masking, ventilation in commercial aircraft is supposedly pretty good. Private charter planes, your guess is as good as mine.
Yes, we were fed that line about airplane ventilation over a year ago when people were still flying at the height of Covid before vaccines. OK fine, I don’t know. Why is it that people claim they get regular respiratory infections is so easily on a plane under normal circumstances If the air is so well ventilated?Of course no one wears masks in pre-Covid so maybe that’s part of it.
happystuff
7-23-21, 7:26pm
Yes, we were fed that line about airplane ventilation over a year ago when people were still flying at the height of Covid before vaccines. OK fine, I don’t know. Why is it that people claim they get regular respiratory infections is so easily on a plane under normal circumstances If the air is so well ventilated?Of course no one wears masks in pre-Covid so maybe that’s part of it.
And I really do think airlines believed it was in their best interests to improve their air filtration systems over the last year - so I tend to believe that there has been at least SOME improvement from pre-covid days on flights.
People are assaulting flight attendants because they don't want to wear masks. An airline can set as strict rules as they want. It doesn't mean people will obey.
I am a different breed. I just won't go somewhere if I don't have to if they will make me wear a mask rather than hassling the customer facing staff.
So people can justify doing whatever they want like saying flying is safe when they have no idea how the other people on the plane will act. Another great one was I'm socializing with people outside my household (pre-vaccine) but it's OK because I just say they're in my pod.
happystuff
7-23-21, 7:32pm
I am a different breed. I just won't go somewhere if I don't have to if they will make me wear a mask rather than hassling the customer facing staff.
Which is your choice and a wonderful decision on your part FOR YOU!
Now if you would only accept and allow those folks that require masks to do so without you whining and complaining about it! And, do what you choose WITHOUT putting anyone else at risk!
Which is your choice and a wonderful decision on your part FOR YOU!
Now if you would only accept and allow those folks that require masks to do so without you whining and complaining about it! And, do what you choose WITHOUT putting anyone else at risk!
I don't put anyone at risk.
I got vaccinated. Vaccines work.
People can stay six feet away from me instead of crowding up against me if they are so worried.
And I have a First Amendment right to whine if I want to. You can add me to your ignore list if you don't like it.
happystuff
7-23-21, 7:45pm
I don't put anyone at risk.
I got vaccinated. Vaccines work.
People can stay six feet away from me instead of crowding up against me if they are so worried.
And I have a First Amendment right to whine if I want to. You can add me to your ignore list if you don't like it.
True. Whine away - at least you admit that you are doing it. Anyway, it's a reflection on you - not anyone else.
And, again, I never said that vaccines don't work - just that they are not the prevent-all miracle you seem to believe them to be. (see previous post)
Yes, you do put others at risk - it's the fact that you believe people should "stay away from me" versus you stepping up and staying away from others while you are unmasked, and you believe that others should allow you to be up-close and personal (eye doctor, for instance) while you are unmasked. But you just don't want to admit it to yourself that you actually do that.
In addition to masks really helping on planes I imagine also that the extreme lack of humidity on planes exacerbates traditional nasal issues that people have always complained about.
I don't put anyone at risk.
I got vaccinated. Vaccines work.
Except for all the people they don’t. Like the 4 out of 9 women I mentioned a few days ago.
By all means continue to believe the untruth that once you are vaccinated that you can’t infect others. SMDFHAYO.
My DW is waiting for the full FDA approval *sigh* but it is her body and her decision. I am a bit of an antivaxxer myself, but on this one felt good about
my decision. Her sister bombards her with texts about every bit of news about the unvaccinated, which I am afraid is making her dig her heals in deeper.
Maybe this fall?
ToomuchStuff
7-24-21, 10:36am
Similarly if a mask clouds up someone's vision they shouldn't have to wear it during an eye exam.
Glass eyes? Never seen someones eyeballs, cloud up from breath. In my years of eye exams (with the old school methods where they touched your eyeballs, with the instruments, that my mother was the surgical nurse for), I never heard of that. Doctors tested the eyes, without my glasses on, to check them against the current prescription.
My DW is waiting for the full FDA approval *sigh* but it is her body and her decision. I am a bit of an antivaxxer myself, but on this one felt good about
my decision. Her sister bombards her with texts about every bit of news about the unvaccinated, which I am afraid is making her dig her heals in deeper.
Maybe this fall?
I'm with you--I'm not one to rush out and get every cure-all Pharma comes up with, but the COVID vaccines seem eminently sensible and life-saving. I don't understand not getting one if you're able.
rosarugosa
7-25-21, 7:35am
Glass eyes? Never seen someones eyeballs, cloud up from breath. In my years of eye exams (with the old school methods where they touched your eyeballs, with the instruments, that my mother was the surgical nurse for), I never heard of that. Doctors tested the eyes, without my glasses on, to check them against the current prescription.
Good point, the exam does tend to be without the eyeglasses on. I'm going for mine in a couple of weeks so can report back.
I have had doctors ask to see my vision with my glasses, and they also have me sit against a glass device.
Having just had part of a dental claim denied for being too frequent I am not about to waste an eye exam benefit and then later if I have to do a do-over if we ever get to a post-mask world have that redo denied.
If we had socialized medical/dental/vision where everything is covered without out of pocket costs I would take the risk of a cloudy exam and go.
I have had doctors ask to see my vision with my glasses, and they also have me sit against a glass device.
Having just had part of a dental claim denied for being too frequent I am not about to waste an eye exam benefit and then later if I have to do a do-over if we ever get to a post-mask world have that redo denied.
If we had socialized medical/dental/vision where everything is covered without out of pocket costs I would take the risk of a cloudy exam and go.
I just had an exam and they did some without glasses and some with glasses, and the glasses did fog up with the mask, so we just wiped them off and started over. I think it is a common problem. So they are dealing with it as they do the exam.
I just had an exam and they did some without glasses and some with glasses, and the glasses did fog up with the mask, so we just wiped them off and started over. I think it is a common problem. So they are dealing with it as they do the exam.
After reading what you posted, and after a lack of response from LensPure, I guess I will try an eye exam. But I am not going to go back to the last place I went.
The sequence of events was I went to Place A for a routine eye exam and due to the issue they saw they sent me to Place B that was more specialized. At Place B I was there for three hours which is a long time to wear a mask.
So I called my vision plan today and ordered a list of providers in my area and I will pick one that knows nothing about my eye history. I will see if they notice any problem like Place A did. Since my condition usually improves on its own if they don't see any problem I will consider myself cured.
If I go to a place that knows my history they will want me there for hours doing various tests which not only is a breathing issue but could be an unnecessary expense if my eyes are fine.
boss mare
7-27-21, 11:08am
Some common sense should come into play. My dentist did not make me wear a mask because they could not clean my teeth if I did.
Similarly if a mask clouds up someone's vision they shouldn't have to wear it during an eye exam.
Ok ... Enough of the nonsense... I have over 35 years in the dental field. We have patients rinse with a solution of hydrogen peroxide for 30 seconds or chlorhexidine gluconate ( also known as Peridex) . we also go over their current health history about the current medications and the usual questions regarding Covid. during a dental procedure. there are precautions taken as there is a lot of aerosols due to the air/water syringe, the hand pieces and splatter of saliva and blood. Also the use of rubber dams a a huge help in preventing aerosol exposure using hand instruments instead of using the cavitron ( ultra sonic hand piece used in cleaning sub gingivally)
As far as the fogging glasses, there are many many products that can be used to prevent glasses fogging up due to masks , we in the dental field have been using them for decades. Its also used to prevent fogging up on the dental mirrors as, it is completely non toxic. Fogging should not prevent you for getting an eye examination.
I heard on the radio today that people in rural Missouri are getting secretly vaccinated. They don't want their anti-vaxx family members to know. They will tell the person administering the shot, "Please don't tell anyone." Some places have set up more private quarters for giving the shot so the recipient will not be seen.
I know both my shots were given in view of others. Maybe making this type of accommodation can help with some of the vaccine hesitancy.
Got a letter from our school encouraging parents to get their kids 12 and older vaccinated or they will have to quarantine 10 days if exposed.
Ok ... Enough of the nonsense... I have over 35 years in the dental field. We have patients rinse with a solution of hydrogen peroxide for 30 seconds or chlorhexidine gluconate ( also known as Peridex) . we also go over their current health history about the current medications and the usual questions regarding Covid. during a dental procedure. there are precautions taken as there is a lot of aerosols due to the air/water syringe, the hand pieces and splatter of saliva and blood. Also the use of rubber dams a a huge help in preventing aerosol exposure using hand instruments instead of using the cavitron ( ultra sonic hand piece used in cleaning sub gingivally)
As far as the fogging glasses, there are many many products that can be used to prevent glasses fogging up due to masks , we in the dental field have been using them for decades. Its also used to prevent fogging up on the dental mirrors as, it is completely non toxic. Fogging should not prevent you for getting an eye examination.
100% agree. Facts are facts. Not everyone is amenable to fact. I wore safety glasses and masks in the OR for 4 decades. Fogging? Nope.
I've had 3 eye exams and a laser iridotomy procedure this year. I wore my mask the entire time of all 4 visits. Not a problem.
What helps? I'm not looking for any excuses to bitch about any mitigation.
Heard today from a place in West Virginia and it may be a go for a mask free eye exam. I could combine that with seeing Harper's Ferry which I've been interested in for years.
Just as well I guess this eye exam didn't work out. Biden is reimposing indoor mask mandates at Federal sites which would include Harper's Ferry as well as the Harriet Tubman National Underground Railroad Museum in Maryland so a September Mid-Atlantic vacation I had contemplated will be a no go.
Hopefully my own state stays mask free. The dictator is set to make an announcement Monday on masks, and from what he has said so far my guess is he will only impose restrictions on the Cape and Islands. I have seen on maps on the news where I live has moderate transmission and where I work low transmission. There are two other categories, something like high and extra high.
Got a letter from our school encouraging parents to get their kids 12 and older vaccinated or they will have to quarantine 10 days if exposed.
That is a very good letter, and would certainly persuade me, if I needed persuading, which I don't. I hope the 5-12 year olds can get vaccinated soon.
That is a very good letter, and would certainly persuade me, if I needed persuading, which I don't. I hope the 5-12 year olds can get vaccinated soon.
Both of my boys got vaccinated so it's a moot point with us. Oldest got it through his job. Youngest didn't want to get it. I told him that if schools opened up in the Fall, they might either require the vaccination or make you wear a mask all day. Ultimately, it wasn't his choice and he got vaccinated. I think now he appreciates it since he sees that things have gone back to normal for those who are vaccinated.
Saw paperwork lying on the floor that DS got his first shot last week. He is in the demographic lagging at vaccination. I am happy he finally got around to it.
My wife and daughter have finally committed to getting vaccinated. Wife holding out for full FDA approval and dd holding out because they are trying to have
another baby. Our Church leaders are encouraging everyone to seriously consider it. I think that and the rising numbers finally convinced them to go ahead.
Years ago when we got married she had to get a vaccine as part of the marriage license (can't even remember what it was now). That night she had a terrible reaction,
passed out, and woke up in her own vomit. The imagine that she could have drowned in her own vomit was not a pleasant one. The doctors rationalized it way as
it must have been something she ate. She has been gun shy ever since.
Greg I wonder if she got Rhogam. I was given that to prevent problems for a future baby because I was Rh negative and my husband was Rh positive, though in my case it was after my first pregnancy since that is what primes the body to create the issue for any subsequent pregnancies.
My wife and daughter have finally committed to getting vaccinated. Wife holding out for full FDA approval and dd holding out because they are trying to have
another baby.
My niece lost her baby when she contracted covid. So, might want to do some more thinking about various outcome-paths. Data seems to indicate that vaccination doesn't increase the rate of miscarriage, but covid appears to significantly.
My youngest daughter got pregnant about the time she received her vaccine and all is well. She works in health care and they required it almost from day one. My middle daughter too has seen the news reports of mothers getting very sick and she certainly doesn't want that. So I am glad they are getting them soon. My SIL is the last hold out, hopefully he will soon follow.
happystuff
8-14-21, 7:48am
Must be a relief for you, Gregg, and for each of them. Best of luck to your daughter!
I'm glad to hear your family will soon be protected. Given a choice between some amorphous potential reaction and a potential drawn out death, I'd take the reaction.
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