View Full Version : Who Has Not Been Vaccinated?
I got tired of waiting for the governor to admit our essential industry is essential so I started looking on my own now that my state lowered the eligibility age to 55. Nothing in my area is available. The J&J 15 million wasted doses appears to be hitting hard.
My doctor's office said they would contact me when the time came but have not. I signed up with my city but they are still dealing with first responders, people in housing projects, and those over 75.
Is anyone else still waiting?
Nope, fully vaccinated here with the exception of my 19 year old grandson. He's scheduled for his first dose on the 16th now that vaccines have been authorized for those aged 16 and over.
iris lilies
4-11-21, 2:51pm
I got tired of waiting for the governor to admit our essential industry is essential so I started looking on my own now that my state lowered the eligibility age to 55. Nothing in my area is available. The J&J 15 million wasted doses appears to be hitting hard.
My doctor's office said they would contact me when the time came but have not. I signed up with my city but they are still dealing with first responders, people in housing projects, and those over 75.
Is anyone else still waiting?
not waiting. But...
The three places I signed up for, expecting a loooooong wait, contacted me within 10 days after I had received my first shot. I got this first one when I learned, thru Nextdoor, that a local hospital was administering the vaccine to senior citizens in my zip code.
It seems that the vaccine became available kinda all at once here.
not waiting. But...
The three places I signed up for, expecting a loooooong wait, contacted me within 10 days after I had received my first shot. When I signed up for my first shot through our county health department they also scheduled me for my second jab 3 weeks later. It was a very efficient operation.
Still waiting. Hoping to get the J+J but as Jeppy said, hard to come by in MA. I've waited on line several times for 1/2 hour for the CVS website, but by the time I get "admitted" from their waiting room, the available shots have all been taken (this is after I check local area first to make sure something is available). If I was more flexible and was willing to drive 1-1/2 hours from home, there are often /some/ available.
CT is having a drive through clinic with J+J next week in the town where my Mom lives. Still asking for recipients to live/work/study in CT- it would have been convenient as I go to CT each week to visit Mom and attend to her needs. I guess if I really stretched that, I could justify in my head that I "worked" in CT but I'll just wait for a while longer.
New Hampshire is allowing anyone, resident or not, to get their shots. IIRC Jeppy, you aren't far from NH?
Our state is wide open to 16 (Pfizer) plus!
With more than 30% unwilling, appointments were going to waste. I'm in charge at my location tomorrow. We have 600 total appointments and only 238 filled. Quite disheartening. Herd immunity is unlikely in the rural West.
Still waiting. Hoping to get the J+J but as Jeppy said, hard to come by in MA.
None of us have it. The company wasted 15 million doses 2 weeks ago. We had to cancel 1000s of appointments >:(
We have 600 total appointments and only 238 filled. Quite disheartening. Herd immunity is unlikely in the rural West.
None of us have it. The company wasted 15 million doses 2 weeks ago. We had to cancel 1000s of appointments >:(
Is there a correlation there? Are people waiting for the one dose version?
I remain unvaccinated, due to having no transportation. I'm a threat to no one, however.
Is there a correlation there? Are people waiting for the one dose version?
Yes there are. Fear of needles is a huge driver for many. I've had a lot of comment from my patients at how worried they were and how surprised they are at my small needles and barely feeling it. They are sorry they waited hoping for J/J.
I learned a lot on the Minneapolis Vaccine Hunters Facebook site. I created an account just to access this, got the info I needed, and killed the account.
Some details that probably apply nationwide: CVS opens appointments around midnight, Walgreens about 6AM. Independent pharmacies, Walmart, and many grocery store pharmacies also have the vaccines. I was able to get an appointment at a small pharmacy about 2 hours away, but if I'd had more time to work on finding a local appointment, I could have.
The CDC has a "find my vaccine" link on their website which will tell you which local pharmacies have the vaccines (and which vaccines).
Teacher Terry
4-11-21, 7:18pm
I received my doses in March.
Today is my two week anniversary for the second dose. I was on the waiting list for the county health, Kaiser, and a mega hospital near me, which turned out sort of useless. I perused the CVS website and the local supermarket pharmacies sites a few times a day and finally got in at a supermarket pharmacy a couple of blocks from my house. No crowds and no waiting each time.
I also used a web site developed by a local computer geek as something of a volunteer notion. It scans different pharmacies for opening. He's now expanded it for most states. It's called vaccinespotter. It was helpful and free, easy to navigate, with no registration required.
https://www.vaccinespotter.org/
Nothing near me in vaccinespotter but thanks anyways.
Nothing near me in vaccinespotter but thanks anyways.
If you like the format, it updates every few minutes and so is worth return visits.
happystuff
4-11-21, 8:37pm
*Almost* everyone in the immediate and extended family (adults and young adults) have gotten both shots, their 1st shot with 2nd scheduled, or have their appointments for the 1st. Hoping for a family picnic or game night by June or July!
I get my second dose the 21st.
I'm scheduled to go with a few residents for the J&J shot on Tuesday at another facility. Not sure if that will happen now or maybe they will switch to a 2-dose vaccine. Not a fan of needles and am hoping for a one shot deal, but the reported side effects are scaring me a bit. And one resident has dementia/Alzheimers, one is 93, and the other has some health issues. I guess they're more at risk of having a reaction, but you never know.
rosarugosa
4-12-21, 5:39am
Jeppy & Herbgeek: I recently helped a friend get scheduled. I went to the mass.gov site and filled out a pre-registration form, and they called him the next day with an appointment right in the town where he lives.
I got my second shot April 1. I had it done at a local Walgreen's and it was SO easy. No one in the pharmacy--they took me right away both times. The shots were painless (except for a little soreness afterwards, but the injection, as Gardnr said, was nothing. Similar to Alan, the two shots were scheduled simultaneously.
Still nothing in my area today. I checked with HR and although we have a self-insured pre-ACA plan there will be no out of pocket cost to me wherever I go, so I just need to find a place. RR when I looked at pre-register as I read it that was only for mass vaccination sites?
Yppej, we had great luck with Walgreens, and not with the state sign up site or Walmart or Hannafords (those were our options.)
When I was looking for an appointment I found the bay area vaccine hunters group on facebook to be incredibly helpful. Among other things someone on there had created a telegram channel with a scraper that would search all the various sites every few minutes and then post when there was new availability at a site, along with a link to sign up for appointments. So in the middle of the morning the first day I was eligible it posted that there were 100's of slots at the Oakland Coliseum and I clicked the link and signed up from my phone.
It should not be this complicated if the government really wants us all to get vaccinated.
It should not be this complicated if the government really wants us all to get vaccinated.
I hear you!
Try this link and put in your zip code and see if Walgreens has any near you:
https://www.walgreens.com/topic/promotion/covid-vaccine.jsp?ext=gooFY21_COVID+Vaccine_NB_BMMCOVID_ NB_COVID+Vaccine_BMM_%2Bcovid%20%2Bvaccine&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=Cj0KCQjw38-DBhDpARIsADJ3kjniR3_v4kpLHGuE11Rila5CRw1yBM8UB-sJ5CzwfKdtP7N8Tcrq_dwaAmWIEALw_wcB
We had to drive an hour, but that's because there was nothing near the cities.
Walgreens says they don't have anything in my state.
iris lilies
4-12-21, 12:29pm
It should not be this complicated if the government really wants us all to get vaccinated.
there are so many smart alec things I can say in response to this idea abput Nanny G and her mysterious ways, but there’s really no point of that.
Probably government entities are doing the best they can to distribute this vaccine. Whereas you all seem to be having trouble out there in rural New England, we had initial trouble in my state, at least it was reported as such, that our governor gave tons of vaccine to rural outstate because those are his constituents and not these blue area cities.
But that was a political spin of the local liberal media so who knows if that’s true. Some of them were aghast that here these vaccines were going to the people who don’t even care to get it! How wrong is that!
The problem with the vaccine distribution seems to be that it's been made way more complicated than need be. The federal government dumped most of the task onto the states. The states have then dumped it on the counties. There's no consistency within states, much less across the states about who is eligible and when. For instance, in the bay area when overweight people become eligible different counties had a different definition of overweight. Even within the counties different providers had different definitions. The san francisco county health department said BMI of 30 or more. Kaiser Permanente said 25. One county opened up to age 50 and over residents two weeks before the state. Workers in that county can also get vaccinated there, but only if they met any of the other criteria to get vaccinated, not if they just met the over 50 age criteria. And on and on and on. About one third of the people I know have driven more than an hour each way to get a shot. Anyone in the bay area that wants a shot can get one today if they are willing/able to drive out to Stockton or the central valley. I was lucky to only have to drive 45 minutes each way. But that was the only option. There are no major vaccine sites in my county and in the week leading up to my eligibility the telegram app never showed any appointments at any providers here so it was pretty much a given that I would need to go to oakland or san francisco to get shot.
. The federal government dumped most of the task onto the states. The states have then dumped it on the counties.
From a logistical standpoint, doesn't that make sense? I would think it takes a lot of local organization to secure locations and personnel to accomplish the goal.
I wish the approach were more local not less. Trying to force most people to drive far from home to a mass vaccination not once but twice for a two dose vaccine is not user friendly.
iris lilies
4-12-21, 1:18pm
From a logistical standpoint, doesn't that make sense? I would think it takes a lot of local organization to secure locations and personnel to accomplish the goal.
Jesus H C, yes!
what value the feds can bring to this process is not clear to me.
Several months ago my county discovered it had been shorted a great deal on the distribution compared to other counties in the state. Some kind of oversight (I like to blame it on being in the PDX media market which accounts for most of the ignoring we get down here). Anyway, they made up for it.
What I'm hearing now from GenX friends is that they are going to Walmart late afternoon and asking if they have "waste" vaccine. That is, vaccine left over for the day's scheduled appointments that folks didn't show up to receive (and they'd have to toss). You queue up with others and get it first come/first served. Two of my coworkers got it that way.
Teacher Terry
4-13-21, 12:09am
Our fastest and most efficient vaccine sites is the one run by the National guard. My sister lives in the suburbs of Chicago and said the same thing.
From a logistical standpoint, doesn't that make sense? I would think it takes a lot of local organization to secure locations and personnel to accomplish the goal.
Perhaps. Although there are several federal government entities that have the relevant skills/knowledge to have pulled this off. Off the top of my head drawing on the logistics skills of the military and FEMA, the distribution skills of the post office, and the mass data skills of the census bureau could’ve been a good start. Undoubtedly there still would have been parts of the process handled at the local level but 50 states all having to build the entire wheel from scratch just doesn’t seem like a particularly efficient way to do this.
rosarugosa
4-13-21, 9:14am
Still nothing in my area today. I checked with HR and although we have a self-insured pre-ACA plan there will be no out of pocket cost to me wherever I go, so I just need to find a place. RR when I looked at pre-register as I read it that was only for mass vaccination sites?
Jeppy: The site says it is for mass vaccination and regional collaborative locations, but they gave my friend an appointment at a site that was not any of these, so it might be worth going through the steps and see what happens: https://www.mass.gov/info-details/preregister-for-a-covid-19-vaccine-appointment#mass-vaccination-&-regional-collaborative-locations-
I guess it is good I did not get a vaccine yet. I would have gone for the J&J to avoid two trips and now it has been halted because it causes blood clots to the brain in some women.
I have now canceled two J & J shots (last one at Costco) after the news of adverse reactions at mass clinics gave me cold feet. I read today that Biden's Covid authorities may be asked to recommend only one Pfizer or Moderna shot so that more product will be available. The first shot provides quite a bit of protection or so it is reported. And no doubt a booster will be coming soon to cover new variants. I think there may be many people like myself who would rather wait just a tiny bit longer until FDA approval of Pfizer which should happen soon. I have a Friday appt for Pfizer in any case (Walgreen's).
happystuff
4-13-21, 10:34am
Got my 2nd Moderna shot yesterday around noon and by the end of my shift (midnight) the side effects hit - couldn't lift my shot arm, achy all over especially neck and back, nausea, dry heaves, chills, etc. Horrible night, but I managed to follow their instructions and not take anything. Bit better this morning. Debating whether to go into work or not.
I guess it is good I did not get a vaccine yet. I would have gone for the J&J to avoid two trips and now it has been halted because it causes blood clots to the brain in some women.
Six cases claimed out of seven million doses administered. I doubt whether the trip to the clinic was less risky.
catherine
4-13-21, 11:28am
Six cases claimed out of seven million doses administered. I doubt whether the trip to the clinic was less risky.
That's right. It's an insanely low risk. However, I read in the NJ online paper that I still get that a man got the J&J vaccine on March 12, was diagnosed with COVID April 1, and he is now in the hospital in critical condition. Again--this is n=1, but still...
iris lilies
4-13-21, 11:35am
Seriously bad reactions to a rushed vaccine? Hyped by the media?
I am shocked! Shocked I tell you. (Not)
If they were going to stick the J and J in my arm today I would probably take it.
iris lilies
4-13-21, 11:36am
That's right. It's an insanely low risk. However, I read in the NJ online paper that I still get that a man got the J&J vaccine on March 12, was diagnosed with COVID April 1, and he is now in the hospital in critical condition. Again--this is n=1, but still...
But it isnt going ro be 100% effective.
But it isnt going ro be 100% effective.
True. Although one will need several decimal places. I’ll take 99.999999% or whatever the actual number is.
A customer at work was saying today his mother got the vaccine and afterwards tested positive for covid, so why should he get a vaccine?
Two people I work with got the J&J this past week and both were sick enough to miss work.
If I never get the vaccine it will not bother me. If I could get exempted from wearing a mask I would be a lot more motivated.
True. Although one will need several decimal places. I’ll take 99.999999% or whatever the actual number is.
Pfizer = 95% effectiveness
Moderna = 86% effectiveness
J&J = 72% effectiveness
No one should be surprised by a lack of 100% effectiveness in any of the vaccines but I find them all effective enough to warrant their usage. (Glad I got the Pfizer though)
It’s interesting how poorly so many of us assess risk. There is a much greater probability of blood clots for users of birth control pills or any number of other drugs people use routinely, but people accept that risk in exchange for the benefits. But here and in Europe we seem especially worried about vaccine risks when there are so many other more significant threats. Even though we may be twice as likely to be struck by lightning than be affected by a vaccine that provides a very good chance of preventing a potentially deadly virus from getting a foothold in our system.
Perspective on the blood clot concern.
3733
Pfizer = 95% effectiveness
Moderna = 86% effectiveness
J&J = 72% effectiveness
No one should be surprised by a lack of 100% effectiveness in any of the vaccines but I find them all effective enough to warrant their usage. (Glad I got the Pfizer though)
Indeed. Although the numbers for preventing serious illness are considerably better then even the already good numbers for preventing infection.
ApatheticNoMore
4-13-21, 12:54pm
It’s interesting how poorly so many of us assess risk. There is a much greater probability of blood clots for users of birth control pills or any number of other drugs people use routinely, but people accept that risk in exchange for the benefits.
well to be truthful much of the whining about the dangers of vaccine is probably coming from men who have probably given 1 seconds thought to birth control in their entire life. Ack a risk exists! WAH!!!!!! Risk of pregnancy is greater than risk of birth control too :laff:
It’s interesting how poorly so many of us assess risk. There is a much greater probability of blood clots for users of birth control pills or any number of other drugs people use routinely, but people accept that risk in exchange for the benefits. But here and in Europe we seem especially worried about vaccine risks when there are so many other more significant threats. Even though we may be twice as likely to be struck by lightning than be affected by a vaccine that provides a very good chance of preventing a potentially deadly virus from getting a foothold in our system.
It's not the many/masses though who decided to pull the vaccine, it is a small group of policy makers.
There are those of us who are reluctant to take any medication. I was on the pill no more than a year at a time, maybe three times max, and was definitely concerned about the hormones in it accumulating in my body and being passed on to a child in utero. When I wanted to have a baby I used another method for 6 months to try to flush as many of those hormones out of my body as possible. Hormones are having an increasing effect on children, with lowered ages of puberty among other things.
The miniscule risk is miniscule ... unless you are one of the unlucky ones who gets the blood clot in your brain. Then it's not a miniscule matter at all.
ApatheticNoMore
4-13-21, 1:24pm
I think the birth control risk is straightforward when one factors in that woman (still) die in pregnancy and at higher rate than from birth control. Therefore preventing pregnancy saves lives. Much like covid.
I think there may be many people like myself who would rather wait just a tiny bit longer until FDA approval of Pfizer which should happen soon. .
It was the first to market. Are you waiting for full approval rather than the current EAU?
Found this about "approval": https://www.10news.com/news/coronavirus/in-depth-how-full-fda-approval-would-impact-vaccine-mandates-competition
I was scheduled to receive J&J shot yesterday but it was cancelled. Managed to get an appointment for Moderna in my town today. The nurse told me that since I had Covid in the past, my reactions may be more severe. Not looking forward to the next few days. Shot didn't hurt at all (and I'm a big baby) and I've been doing ROM movements in the hopes of avoiding a sore arm. Tonight I'll be prepared and have Tylenol, blankets, towels and a bucket nearby just in case. It seems that if there's a reaction, it could hit quickly and hard, and possibly go away just as fast. My Covid case was very mild, and this could be worse.
Teacher Terry
4-15-21, 10:30am
My Covid shot side effects hit hard about 12 hours after the shot and came on fast.
happystuff
4-15-21, 10:35am
My side effects came within 12 hours of the shot and lasted about 24 hours. Finally feeling good as of yesterday. Good luck. I hope you don't get any!
rushed vaccine?
Hmmmmm, why do you think it was rushed to market? Many many medical marvels have come into use over the last 4 decades with EUA. Some devices never receive full FDA approval and are medical marvels.
Research on mRNA began in the 60s. It is in use in other arenas already. Scientists simply had to apply covid coding to it and it was ready for trial. Advance funding from President Trump made that work immediately begin. 3 clinical trials were performed. Full data on those trials presented.
As for J/J, Adenovirus vaccines are a type of viral vector vaccine. That means they use a modified and harmless virus — in this case an adenovirus — as a delivery system for genetic instructions.
6 blood clots in nearly 7 million vaccines? Far lower percentile than deaths from covid. I think the FDA is exercising extreme caution and will thoroughly study the overall health and backgrounds of these 6 women aged 18-48 before making a decision.
Meanwhile, the USA has enough Pfizer and Moderna for all. I'm betting J/J won't come back on the market for 6-8 weeks and I wouldn't advocate anyone wait for it. Sadly, 60% of our J/J patients scheduled today, refused Moderna so they continue to go unvaccinated:|(
I’m stunned that 60% wanted J&J but refused moderna.
Personally I’m excited by the news that moderna is working on a booster covid shot for the fall that may also be crafted to double as a flu shot. My guess (hope) which is admittedly speculation based on my non-virologist understanding of how mRNA vaccines work is that the flu component will be more broad-based than a traditional flu shot and thus more likely to be effective against whatever flu virus predominates next winter.
I had a feeling it would be announced that annual boosters would be the next step along with a third shot after six months. It is taking all my guts just to get the first Pfizer next week - that's how much I hate shots of any kind. It doesn't help that DH tells me everyday that I am making a mistake. Uggh. DD asked about our vaccine status since we planned to visit in two months.
Almost 30 hours since my first Moderna and the only side effect has been a sore arm. Just the injection site mostly. Fingers crossed that's it until the second shot.
I tried again today to look for a vaccine. I started with my doctor's medical group and they are booked up. I then looked online and saw one site a reasonable distance away. It is run by a Board of Health. Supposedly it had openings but no appointment times were listed but there was a next button which I clicked. Then the website directed me to fill out a preregistration form for a mass vaccination site although the site I wanted is not a mass site. The instructions said the form is only good for mass vaccination sites so it makes no sense that I was directed there for a non-mass site.
Nothing was available at a clinic, pharmacy, or other more user friendly location. Next week New Hampshire opens up to non residents and I will try there. Massachusetts is a disorganized mess. I saw on the news that nationwide there is more supply than demand now and doses are available but not being used. It is because of this stupid top down approach to try to force everyone to go to mass vaccination sites. You need to use the distribution channels people want, as brick and mortar stores have learned in the retail apocalypse. Herd immunity doesn't mean herd everyone into a few huge locations far from where they live.
Now people of any age can sign up for shots in my state starting Monday. I don't see things getting any better in the short term.
frugal-one
4-16-21, 8:12pm
Why not go to a mass vaccination site? What's the big deal?
It is because of this stupid top down approach to try to force everyone to go to mass vaccination sites. You need to use the distribution channels people want, as brick and mortar stores have learned in the retail apocalypse. Herd immunity doesn't mean herd everyone into a few huge locations far from where they live.
Wrong. No mass vacc sites at all in my state. Appointments are going unused and vacc days going cancelled making staff nervous about their paychecks. State is barely at 21% vaccinated. Some want J/J only d/t a single injection-really the most ridiculous excuse to not get vaccinated. We use tiny needles and it literally takes 1 second to inject. Others just think the vacc is stupid and still stand by Trump on his no-big-deal BS.
I certainly can't answer for why you can't find an appointment but blanket statements are wrong so please refrain.
Wrong. Doses aren’t being used because some people refuse to be vaccinated, for whatever reasons. I got my shot through my the hospital group my doctor belongs to. Got it at a regular doctor’s office.
I have been surprised at all the strong right wing people I work with getting vaccinated. There doesn't seem to be any vaccine hesitancy. I guess it is different in the Northeast. New Hampshire leads the nation in percentage of their population that is vaccinated - and some people still feel they should stay under restrictions ad infinitum.
ETA There seems to be a gender divide. I work with all men and several have said things like they are only getting the shot because their significant other or mother wants them to. And the women navigated the system to find and book appointments for them.
It is amusing to hear reports about right-wing vs left-wing decision-making on vaccinations. It keeps reminding me of a retired nurse and good friend's observation - "they all look the same in a hospital gown."
It is amusing to hear reports about right-wing vs left-wing decision-making on vaccinations. It keeps reminding me of a retired nurse and good friend's observation - "they all look the same in a hospital gown."
To me, it is really a factor. I think that if the country wants to make substantial progress with the virus, we need to try to understand how people think and meet people in the middle. Using scare tactics does not work; calling people ignorant because they engage in critical thinking does not work, ignoring the problem does not work, and assuming bad faith and using words like "freedumb" doesn't work.
We interacted with my son's in-laws last week, who have decided not to get vaccinated. We did talk about our decision to get vaccinated, we discussed common ground of wanting to be able to all get together with the grandchildren as one big family unit. I respect their decision, and they respect ours. That was unexpected, and very positive and good.
I pray they do not get sick, or that our kids don't get sick. I guess I fail to see much amusing in this whole situation, when the stakes are very high.
Additionally after getting hives on my face after my second Pfizer shot, I have concluded no boosters for me. Husband has concluded the same.
I am up for a market research project on just that topic: What is behind vaccine hesitancy and what messages resonate to get people vaccinated? I suggested in the proposal that we make sure we recruit people from both red and blue states and take politics into the conversation to see the extent to which the local political environment (leadership, neighbors, culture) feed into attitudes.
For each chain it looks like you have to create a separate online account. I made one for Walmart and of the five stores near me only one has any times and they are on weekdays and smack dab in the middle of the day so I cannot go to work late or leave early. This is not good for people who have to work for a living.
There is no question about the seriousness of the whole situation for everyone, without exception.
For each chain it looks like you have to create a separate online account. I made one for Walmart and of the five stores near me only one has any times and they are on weekdays and smack dab in the middle of the day so I cannot go to work late or leave early. This is not good for people who have to work for a living.
Pull up your big girl panties, Jeppy, and deal with it. At least your have internet and know how to use it. What about the seniors who don’t have internet and have to to try to get an appt via phone.
My appts are in the middle of the day. My employer allows us the time to get the shot without it coming out of sick or vacation time.
For each chain it looks like you have to create a separate online account. I made one for Walmart and of the five stores near me only one has any times and they are on weekdays and smack dab in the middle of the day so I cannot go to work late or leave early. This is not good for people who have to work for a living.
Pull up your big girl panties, Jeppy, and deal with it. At least your have internet and know how to use it. What about the seniors who don’t have internet and have to to try to get an appt via phone.
My appts are in the middle of the day. My employer allows us the time to get the shot without it coming out of sick or vacation time.
Pull up your big girl panties, Jeppy, and deal with it. At least your have internet and know how to use it. What about the seniors who don’t have internet and have to to try to get an appt via phone.
My appts are in the middle of the day. My employer allows us the time to get the shot without it coming out of sick or vacation time.
My employer does not.
I can see you feel strongly about this because you posted the same thing twice.
Pull up your big girl panties, Jeppy, and deal with it. At least your have internet and know how to use it. What about the seniors who don’t have internet and have to to try to get an appt via phone.
My appts are in the middle of the day. My employer allows us the time to get the shot without it coming out of sick or vacation time.
My employer does not.
I can see you feel strongly about this because you posted the same thing twice.
Nothing at Walgreens in the area, nothing statewide at CVS, the biggest pharmacy chain in these parts. I can see why Gretchen Whitmer is upset. Some states need more vaccines and in other states they are sitting unused.
happystuff
4-17-21, 12:21pm
I can see you feel strongly about this because you posted the same thing twice.
And we can all see you are "trying" to be witty - or for whatever reason - by pointing these things out. Major fail on your part, but if it makes you feel better when so little else seems to, go for it.
Edited to add: On the other hand, since you did the same thing and, as the saying goes, "mimicry is the highest form of flattery", nice compliment to Tradd!
ApatheticNoMore
4-17-21, 1:06pm
There are *some* people who work for a living who have no sick days or vacation days (or even hours) to use to get a vaccine because they simply have no paid time off where they work. Oddly though that's probably not the people whining most about it. They usually do have paid time off they could use.
I want a Saturday so I can recover Sunday. I finally preregistered with the state but I am skeptical they will match me with a good place and time.
Vaccine hesitancy seems to be following the same line as everything else these past few years. We as a country are no longer united on any front. We are islands. A commentary in the Wash Post said non-vaxers are free-riders. Their health may depend entirely on those who choose to see it as their duty to get vaccinated - for themselves and for others.
Vaccine hesitancy seems to be following the same line as everything else these past few years. We as a country are no longer united on any front. We are islands. A commentary in the Wash Post said non-vaxers are free-riders. Their health may depend entirely on those who choose to see it as their duty to get vaccinated - for themselves and for others.
Some are free riders, some are paranoid, and some have legitimate concerns. If I had an autoimmune disorder or was on chemo and my system could not handle a vaccine I would not consider myself to be a freeloader.
Interesting that the Post would blast Americans who are among the top countries in terms of vaccination rates, who funded much of the vaccine development at warp speed, and who are sharing vaccines with other countries. A better way to encourage vaccination is to thank Americans and praise them.
In California everyone whose employer has 25 or more employees gets 80 hours of covid related sick time, including for vaccinations or caring for a loved one, that can be used anytime between 1/1/21 and 9/31/21.
frugal-one
4-17-21, 2:33pm
My employer does not.
I can see you feel strongly about this because you posted the same thing twice.
So use sick time if you need to. Get it done and quit bitchin'.
My employer does not.
I can see you feel strongly about this because you posted the same thing twice.
System error. Just noticed it had happened twice.
System error. Just noticed it had happened twice.
It happened to me too - and has in the past as well.
I remain unvaccinated, due to having no transportation. I'm a threat to no one, however.
The vaccine was supposed to be free but if you have to provide your own transportation it"s not. If I did not have a car to get to the mass vaccination sites our governor keeps pushing people to use it would cost hundreds of dollars in taxi fares each time, since there is now no single dose vaccine available. Local health departments invested in freezers so they could vaccinate people and then the Dictator took their vaccines away. Employers of essential workers like my employer signed contracts to purchase vaccines for their workers, to be administered by a registered nurse, and then the Dictator took our vaccines away. Now some people say we should also give up two days pay to get vaccinated. That is not how free works.
Dictator took their vaccines away.
Its CDC guidance being used. I know you like to blame Charlie, but really, he's following the science and caution. Also, the Janssen vaccine doesn't need to be held at those cold temperatures. If you're going to continually complain, you could at least get your facts correct.
The vaccine was supposed to be free but if you have to provide your own transportation it"s not. If I did not have a car to get to the mass vaccination sites our governor keeps pushing people to use it would cost hundreds of dollars in taxi fares each time, since there is now no single dose vaccine available. Local health departments invested in freezers so they could vaccinate people and then the Dictator took their vaccines away. Employers of essential workers like my employer signed contracts to purchase vaccines for their workers, to be administered by a registered nurse, and then the Dictator took our vaccines away. Now some people say we should also give up two days pay to get vaccinated. That is not how free works.
This reminds me of dozens of discussions here over the years, what I want should be free and if it's not completely free then I am not respected and this is a terrible place to live. I think it's silly but I guess if there's any place for it, it's here.
Some are free riders, some are paranoid, and some have legitimate concerns. If I had an autoimmune disorder or was on chemo and my system could not handle a vaccine I would not consider myself to be a freeloader.
These populations are being strongly encouraged to get vaccinated. I've had some very happy patients this past week with these health challenges. They wished they could have been at the front of the line given their risk if they had contracted covid.
This reminds me of dozens of discussions here over the years, what I want should be free and if it's not completely free then I am not respected and this is a terrible place to live. I think it's silly but I guess if there's any place for it, it's here.
Dude, they don't even give you a meal allowance for getting the vaccination!
What sort of hellhole is this?
Dude, they don't even give you a meal allowance for getting the vaccination!
What sort of hellhole is this?
But at least people can bring snacks and water to the people waiting in line without getting arrested.
But at least people can bring snacks and water to the people waiting in line without getting arrested.Isn't that how Pfizer took the lead in doses administered, giving snacks to anyone willing to dump Moderna?
Isn't that how Pfizer took the lead in doses administered, giving snacks to anyone willing to dump Moderna?
Probably. That’s why I went with j&j. After I’d confirmed that they weren’t going to be injecting me with baby powder.
ApatheticNoMore
4-18-21, 1:30am
In California everyone whose employer has 25 or more employees gets 80 hours of covid related sick time, including for vaccinations or caring for a loved one, that can be used anytime between 1/1/21 and 9/31/21.
too late, already used paid time off (and used a little PTO to take my mom to get vaccinated too). I figured it was just like how you have to use PTO to go to a doctors appointment etc. But we have waited a year for this vaccine what's a little PTO after all that.
I've tried to give blood but never been accepted. But I do hear donors get orange juice, cookies, free parking, and swag.
Covid vaccines don't count as unfunded mandates because they're not mandated ... yet. Once they receive regular rather than emergency use authorization that could be another story. Already in my state the Dictator forced all students to get flu shots this past year, even those doing all remote learning.
I've tried to give blood but never been accepted. But I do hear donors get orange juice, cookies, free parking, and swag.
Covid vaccines don't count as unfunded mandates because they're not mandated ... yet. Once they receive regular rather than emergency use authorization that could be another story. Already in my state the Dictator forced all students to get flu shots this past year, even those doing all remote learning.
Oh the horror. Trying to keep people healthy during a pandemic that has killed 540,000 Americans and counting. I know. I know. Many of them were only old people that don’t matter.
iris lilies
4-18-21, 8:40am
I've tried to give blood but never been accepted. But I do hear donors get orange juice, cookies, free parking, and swag.
Covid vaccines don't count as unfunded mandates because they're not mandated ... yet. Once they receive regular rather than emergency use authorization that could be another story. Already in my state the Dictator forced all students to get flu shots this past year, even those doing all remote learning.
I gave blood twice last summer while Covid numbers were down, but when it all started to surge again I stayed home and hunkered down. But now that I am vaccinated I need to go give blood.
Oh the horror. Trying to keep people healthy during a pandemic that has killed 540,000 Americans and counting. I know. I know. Many of them were only old people that don’t matter.
Ypp despises wellness. She just hasn't admitted it yet.
My youngest brother was planning to be vaccinated but now he has changed his mind. The reason is we are now being told we will need booster shots every year. He said the booster will add maybe 1% efficacy to the vaccine and is just a way for the pharmaceutical companies to keep making money year after year.
Meanwhile the mass vaccination robot emailed me 4 sites today all over an hour from my house. If you do not accept any of these places within 24 hours they put on the list for the next round of openings. I will see with time if my options improve and also check out what New Hampshire offers. Starting tomorrow they are accepting out of state patients.
happystuff
4-18-21, 3:45pm
Meanwhile the mass vaccination robot emailed me 4 sites today all over an hour from my house. If you do not accept any of these places within 24 hours they put on the list for the next round of openings. I will see with time if my options improve and also check out what New Hampshire offers. Starting tomorrow they are accepting out of state patients.
Wait... you have been whining and complaining about NOT being able to get a vaccine and, after receiving info on 4 sites, you "will see with time if my options improve"!!
You really are both unbelievable and sad... unbelievably sad.
Meanwhile the mass vaccination robot emailed me 4 sites today all over an hour from my house. If you do not accept any of these places within 24 hours they put on the list for the next round of openings. I will see with time if my options improve and also check out what New Hampshire offers. Starting tomorrow they are accepting out of state patients.
Mass sounds a lot like Maine! The man next door is paralyzed, and they told him he would have to drive four hours to Augusta to get a vaccine.
We got appointments out in the country, an hour's drive away (we are already out in the country, but not far enough out.) I am glad we were able to do so, as there are still not vaccines available close to where we live. I think it is too hard for many people who do want the vaccines, and I imagine they get discouraged and give up.
Tybee, there does seem to be an urban bias in our states. Others like West Virginia and New Mexico are doing better at reaching rural residents.
I remain unvaccinated, due to having no transportation. I'm a threat to no one, however.
What’s your transportation situation?
My car died* last March. The tow truck driver can't let me ride along because of COVID. I'm sure there's a workaround, but I haven't pursued it. I'm really in no particular hurry, considering.
*I think it's a minor problem, but now the battery is surely dead. I always threatened that if I had car trouble, I'd just buy a replacement--I've had so much car trouble over the years. I may yet do that.
My car died* last March. The tow truck driver can't let me ride along because of COVID. I'm sure there's a workaround, but I haven't pursued it. I'm really in no particular hurry, considering.
*I think it's a minor problem, but now the battery is surely dead. I always threatened that if I had car trouble, I'd just buy a replacement--I've had so much car trouble over the years. I may yet do that.
I assume you’re using grocery delivery or close enough to walk?
I assume you’re using grocery delivery or close enough to walk?
Yes. I get regular deliveries from Amazon Fresh. My legs died well before my car did. That's why that jury summons was so laughable--at least after the fact (I wasn't laughing at the time...).
I probably have enough staples to last me until the next millennium. :D
I got up in the wee hours to hop on New Hampshire's website and was able to book a first dose appointment on a Saturday less than an hour from home at an urgent care clinic. I am scheduled for May 22nd.
All appointments statewide are on one platform. It was user friendly. They also prescreened me for things like immune disorders or being on chemo or pregnant.
Just got my second Pfizer jab
I thought today I would try again to see if I can get a shot sooner in my own state at a reasonable distance from home - no luck. Sites show "available" but you have to create an account and log in, only to see no appointments are available after all. It looks like a scheme to me to get people to create accounts with Walmart and pharmacies so that those companies have their contact information and can market to them.
I thought today I would try again to see if I can get a shot sooner in my own state at a reasonable distance from home - no luck. Sites show "available" but you have to create an account and log in, only to see no appointments are available after all. It looks like a scheme to me to get people to create accounts with Walmart and pharmacies so that those companies have their contact information and can market to them.
I may have missed an earlier discussion on this, but, do you not have a health care provider who has vaccine? Does your state's department of health not have a vaccine 1-800 number or any other resource?
I may have missed an earlier discussion on this, but, do you not have a health care provider who has vaccine? Does your state's department of health not have a vaccine 1-800 number or any other resource?
There is a website but only for mass vaccination sites which are far from home. I do not want to drive far away and then if I have a bad reaction to the vaccine have trouble getting home. I know several people who have gotten sick after getting the shot.
My health care provider said they would contact me when it is my turn but have not although I am eligible. I have checked the website of the medical group they are part of, who are administering the shot, and they have no openings.
So I am still on for 5/22 in New Hampshire, Massachusetts having a pathetic rollout.
It doesn't seem right that there are doses and appointment slots here going unused due to hesitancy but not available in spots where people want them.
Yes. I get regular deliveries from Amazon Fresh. My legs died well before my car did. That's why that jury summons was so laughable--at least after the fact (I wasn't laughing at the time...).
I probably have enough staples to last me until the next millennium. :D
Hey Jane, I was just noticing on the Wa.gov website that there is now a state mobile vaccine team who will come to those who are homebound. See the form at:
https://coronavirus.wa.gov/
We're doing another 1000 doses over the next week here on the island. (And our population is only about 5000, so this is a big chunk of the remaining unvaccinated folks). We'll have live music and everything at our Performing Arts Center Turned Vaccine Site, as usual. And pizza.
I may have missed an earlier discussion on this, but, do you not have a health care provider who has vaccine? Does your state's department of health not have a vaccine 1-800 number or any other resource?
From what she describes it sounds like MA is doing it the same as CA. With no centralized coordination. I ended up going to a mass vacc site 45 minute drive each way because it just seemed easier and less time consuming than registering at Walgreens, cvs, etc just to look and see if appointments existed.
I heard on the news today Massachusetts has the least vaccine hesitancy in the country. So that may explain why there is nothing available in either the county where I live or the county where I work.
Jane v2.0
4-22-21, 10:34pm
Hey Jane, I was just noticing on the Wa.gov website that there is now a state mobile vaccine team who will come to those who are homebound. See the form at:
https://coronavirus.wa.gov/
That looks good--thanks, KayLR!
happystuff
4-23-21, 10:39am
Last person in the household just got their first vaccine shot this morning. By the end of May, we will be a fully vaccinated household!
So J&J is back, has now caused three deaths that we know of, and impacted women up to 59 years of age. I am going to call before my vaccine appointment in NH and see which vaccine they plan to give and cancel if it is J&J. I think the news reports that covid is more dangerous than J&J may be true if you are elderly, obese, or have other comorbidities. Personally I am much more concerned about a blot clot to my brain killing me.
Meanwhile Massachusetts sent me an email that they don't have vaccines for me anywhere in the state at this time.
Personally I am much more concerned about a blot clot to my brain killing me.
I guess I am more concerned about people's inability to do math....
From CNN today:
"This is still extremely rare," she said -- noting that seven cases of blood clots had been reported out of nearly seven million J&J vaccines given, and two of those cases had been fatal."
From CNN today:
"This is still extremely rare," she said -- noting that seven cases of blood clots had been reported out of nearly seven million J&J vaccines given, and two of those cases had been fatal."
Out of curiosity, how many died from traffic accidents while going to/from the vaccination sites?
In 2018 in the USA, there were about 112 deaths per million from auto accidents. So of those 7 million people, we'd expect to see 784 of them die during the year. So about two deaths a day, in that 7 million population. With some handwaving.
Better to hide under the bed than to get vaccinated!
Clever math, Bae.
Also consider: 570,000 Covid deaths in the USA, current US population is about 330 million. 1727 deaths per million. Compare to the deaths/million for the J&J vaccine.... (0.29 deaths/million, or, a bit less than Covid...)
Clever math, Bae.
LOLing here. What is you don't believe about real data?
iris lilies
4-23-21, 11:23pm
LOLing here. What is you don't believe about real data?
Why do you think she doesn’t believe “real data? “
LOLing here. What is you don't believe about real data?
I was supporting Bae's math comment with today's fact from CNN news or, at least, that was my intent. People need to put information into a proper perspective to make an informed decision on J&J vaccine. Is it not the only vaccine at present that requires just one 'jab' which many people would prefer?
ApatheticNoMore
4-24-21, 1:34am
It's very rare in a medical definition of side effects:
Very common affects more than 1 in 10 people – ie the risk is 10% or higher
Common affects between 1 in 100 and 1 in 10 people – ie risk is 1% to 10%
Uncommon affects between 1 in 1,000 and 1 in 100 people – ie risk is 0.1% to 1%
Rare affects between 1 in 10,000 and 1 in 1,000 people – ie risk is 0.01% to 0.1%
Very rare affects less than 1 in 10,000 people – ie risk is less than 0.01% (This includes isolated reports, or where the absolute risk is not known or can’t be quantified. For example, if identified through post-marketing safety surveillance and the frequency cannot be estimated from the available data).
But we're talking 1 in 1,000,000 (no I'm afraid there is no very very rare category).
From CNN today:
"This is still extremely rare," she said -- noting that seven cases of blood clots had been reported out of nearly seven million J&J vaccines given, and two of those cases had been fatal."
Your information is outdated. There are now 15 cases reported, more than double the amount you list.
Four of the fourteen people on the advisory panel voted against resumption of the J&J vaccine, and that carries weight with me as well.
We are not talking a sore arm here. Three of the women died and seven remain hospitalized. They can give the J & J vaccine to men and save the other vaccines for women.
Imagine if we were as concerned about death from anything where the death rate from that action or activity was higher than 3 in 8 million people as some people seem to be about this vaccine. I was about to say that we wouldn’t be allowed to get out of bed since pretty much everything is more dangerous than that but than I looked up the stats. One in eight people die in their sleep. Since roughly 1.25% of the total population does every year that means that there is a .156% chance of anyone dying in their sleep in any one year. Way higher than the chance of dying from the j and j vaccine. So, no more beds allowed. Too dangerous.
Imagine if we were as concerned about death from anything where the death rate from that action or activity was higher than 3 in 8 million people as some people seem to be about this vaccine. I was about to say that we wouldn’t be allowed to get out of bed since pretty much everything is more dangerous than that but than I looked up the stats. One in eight people die in their sleep. Since roughly 1.25% of the total population does every year that means that there is a .156% chance of anyone dying in their sleep in any one year. Way higher than the chance of dying from the j and j vaccine. So, no more beds allowed. Too dangerous.
More clever data. ;) When fear takes over, rational thinking disappears. Sometimes the wait for rational thinking to return is quite long, sad to say. But carry on...
Selective use of statistics by "experts" is discussed in this article:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics
You can find an expert to say almost anything. The defense found so-called experts to try to exonerate Derek Chauvin in the murder of George Floyd.
iris lilies
4-24-21, 9:43am
I was supporting Bae's math comment with today's fact from CNN news or, at least, that was my intent.
I know you were.
happystuff
4-24-21, 12:04pm
Selective use of statistics by "experts" is discussed in this article:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics
You can find an expert to say almost anything. The defense found so-called experts to try to exonerate Derek Chauvin in the murder of George Floyd.
Yes, we've seen you reference many such "experts".
happystuff
4-24-21, 12:07pm
In my opinion, the long and short of it is - the information is out there. Either people will use it or they won't and will continue to sit around complaining and whining.
There are some real vaccine zealots out there, who will not help victims of a volcanic eruption unless they are vaccinated:
https://www.businessinsider.com/st-vincent-volcano-cruise-ship-evacuation-only-for-vaccinated-2021-4
Selective use of statistics by "experts" is discussed in this article:
Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs. I have been, among other things, a professional statistician since the 1980s. My office was two doors down from John Tukey's in Fine Hall, and he helped me with my thesis - some especially tricky bit involving a frequency/time-domain transformation. My other office nearby at The Institute was attached to Stephen Wolfram's, as I was his research assistant tasked with the data analysis for some truly insane cellular automata research (you might enjoy the eventual resultant work, "A New Kind of Science"). Your packets in your ill-informed post here simply wouldn't have arrived at their destination without the statistical work I did early on that allows efficient routing of information. Etc. Etc.
Your trope is commonly brought up in discussions by people who themselves have an insufficient knowledge of the field of statistics to engage in productive discourse. I have taught hundreds of classes to thousands of students over the years about how to use numbers to get a grasp on reality - you might want to take a similar course, it's very helpful with developing critical thinking skills. Otherwise you are simply a slave to your preconceptions and feelings.
You can find an expert to say almost anything.
And that is the sort of thing that people who are not experts, or even knowledgeable, in a field tend to throw out to deflect and distract, and to establish their own opinions as somehow on equal footing with those of people who actually know what they heck they are doing. (This is one of the reasons we no longer can have nice things...) You might want to read Nichols' book "The Death of Expertise".
Your trope is commonly brought up in discussions by people who themselves have an insufficient knowledge of the field of statistics to engage in productive discourse. I have taught hundreds of classes to thousands of students over the years about how to use numbers to get a grasp on reality - you might want to take a similar course, it's very helpful with developing critical thinking skills. Otherwise you are simply a slave to your preconceptions and feelings.
And that is the sort of thing that people who are not experts, or even knowledgeable, in a field tend to throw out to deflect and distract, and to establish their own opinions as somehow on equal footing with those of people who actually know what they heck they are doing. (This is one of the reasons we no longer can have nice things...) You might want to read Nichols' book "The Death of Expertise".
Eloquently stated. Thank you.
The lead story on the nightly news was hesitancy about the J&J vaccine. While half the states are administering it again half are not.
And The Washington Post had an editorial that all the statistical analysis supposedly showing J&J safe ignores the fact that we have two more effective, safer vaccines. They said J&J should not be given to women under 50 because a risk benefit analysis that ignores safer alternatives is bogus.
Here is the link:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/04/24/its-good-resume-jj-vaccine-younger-women-should-be-warned-against-it/
But I am sure some people who think they are wicked smart would be happy to force or pressure people to take the J&J shot. Some of them are men who don't face this risk. How patronizing!
I suppose some people will decide to wait for one of the other shots and risk covid while they’re waiting versus a 3 in 8,000,000 chance of dying from the shot. Personally those sound like terrible odds. Especially in places like eastern Michigan where covid is booming right now.
But I am sure some people who think they are wicked smart would be happy to force or pressure people to take the J&J shot. Some of them are men who don't face this risk. How patronizing!
I have never encouraged a vaccine with the lowest efficacy. Many people are hung up on the single injection as they have a fear of needles.
Yes, I've had more than a dozen patients who immediately shared a fear of needles. I talk them through. I love engaging my patients in conversation and while they are answering a question I inject. I've already cleansed with alcohol wipe so they know it's imminent. They are consistently surprised I'm suddenly putting on the bandaid and pleasantly surprised it actually did not hurt. In 4 weeks, I've had 1 patient say "that hurt". I figure that tells me I'm good at it (I've always had an ease with IMs and IVs).
I wonder how many people are going with just one shot of the Pfizer figuring it offers at least some protection?
I wonder how many people are going with just one shot of the Pfizer figuring it offers at least some protection?
When we do register patients for dose 1, they are at the same time given an appt for dose 2. On all my shifts I believe less than 12 no-shows. We give them a call and give them all day to show up (until 15 minutes after planned closing time).
Considering we do 500-1100/day, I'd say very few.
Got my second Pfizer dose Wednesday. I’ve been feeling a bit tired. Also have a bit of a knot and some swelling at injection site. Only hurts if I really press on it. I can sleep on that side. Today I went to the local quarry to dive. The exhaustion just hit me like a ton o’ bricks coming out of the water. Only did that one dive. Got home and slept for six hours. Just got up to get something to eat and have a nice hot bath. Orthodox Holy Week is this week with services each day. May be scaling back my usual participation to get more rest.
Teacher Terry
4-25-21, 12:48am
My youngest son got his first dose of Moderna today.
I suppose some people will decide to wait for one of the other shots and risk covid while they’re waiting versus a 3 in 8,000,000 chance of dying from the shot. Personally those sound like terrible odds. Especially in places like eastern Michigan where covid is booming right now.
1. It was 7.8 million shots administered at the time of the pause.
2. Since this affects only women it's more like 7.8 million/2 or 3.9 million.
3. In addition to deaths you have women hospitalized in critical condition with blot clots in their brain.
Beware lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Also not necessarily quantifiable is that these are younger, healthy women with many years of life ahead of them, whereas the covid death profile is different. A friend of mine told me while she was sad to lose her mother to covid it was a blessing because her quality of life was so deteriorated due to dementia. You could try to calculate remaining years of life I suppose, but statistics don't cover everything, including the grief of families who lose someone in the prime of life.
Your packets in your ill-informed post here simply wouldn't have arrived at their destination without the statistical work I did early on that allows efficient routing of information.
Wow. Does Al Gore know that you are also claiming to have invented the internet?
1. It was 7.8 million shots administered at the time of the pause.
2. Since this affects only women it's more like 7.8 million/2 or 3.9 million.
3. In addition to deaths you have women hospitalized in critical condition with blot clots in their brain.
Beware lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Also not necessarily quantifiable is that these are younger, healthy women with many years of life ahead of them, whereas the covid death profile is different. A friend of mine told me while she was sad to lose her mother to covid it was a blessing because her quality of life was so deteriorated due to dementia. You could try to calculate remaining years of life I suppose, but statistics don't cover everything, including the grief of families who lose someone in the prime of life.
24,120 Americans under the age of 50 have died from this disease that you think only kills off useless old people. Or old people whose families wish them dead. I’m not even going to bother calculating how much higher the risk is of covid versus being one of the 3 deaths from a J&J blood clot but you’re not interested in facts so it would be a waste of my time anyway.
It occurred to me this morning that with so many fears governing people today re work, money, climate, accidents, diseases of all kinds, etc., whether or not to have the covid jab and which one may give those who are hesitating a sense of control over at least one thing in their lives. To give up that one tiny bit of control is more than they can deal with at present and they are clinging fiercely to that. Any info confirming their fears, an echo chamber, also verifies that they do have some control.
Presenting rational facts and data re covid and its vaccines won't help them, IMHO anyway. Fear is a powerful emotion that shuts down rational thinking. So sorry that we are dealing with all of this.
24,120 Americans under the age of 50 have died from this disease that you think only kills off useless old people. Or old people whose families wish them dead. I’m not even going to bother calculating how much higher the risk is of covid versus being one of the 3 deaths from a J&J blood clot but you’re not interested in facts so it would be a waste of my time anyway.
I don't believe you have children. Ask anyone who does which is the more devastating prospect - losing an elderly parent or losing a child.
I don't believe you have children. Ask anyone who does which is the more devastating prospect - losing an elderly parent or losing a child.
Only a total nutcase would pose that question and that way. I wish you well!
1. It was 7.8 million shots administered at the time of the pause.
2. Since this affects only women it's more like 7.8 million/2 or 3.9 million.
3. In addition to deaths you have women hospitalized in critical condition with blot clots in their brain.
Beware lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Also not necessarily quantifiable is that these are younger, healthy women with many years of life ahead of them, whereas the covid death profile is different. A friend of mine told me while she was sad to lose her mother to covid it was a blessing because her quality of life was so deteriorated due to dementia. You could try to calculate remaining years of life I suppose, but statistics don't cover everything, including the grief of families who lose someone in the prime of life.
How delightful to know our elders who worked hard for the world we grew up in, are disposable for you. I think I'll have a better day knowing that.
Every time I think you can't shock me any more with your twisted view and "statistical interpretation skills, you shock me yet again. >:(
I don't believe you have children. Ask anyone who does which is the more devastating prospect - losing an elderly parent or losing a child.
Yes. People without children know nothing about life. Selfish imbeciles we are.
happystuff
4-25-21, 9:47am
I don't believe you have children. Ask anyone who does which is the more devastating prospect - losing an elderly parent or losing a child.
"More devastating prospect"!?!? I can only assume you have lost neither at this point in your life. What an uneducated, insensitive statement to those who have lost one, the other or both! Shame on you!
ApatheticNoMore
4-25-21, 9:49am
And what makes people with kids perspective on the value of other people's parents any more relevant than anyone elses? Why should their subjective truth be privileged over anyone elses? "But my feelings are greater than yours!"
I’ll admit the blood clot thing confuses me a little. Are we justified in assuming those eight or whatever cases are a direct result of the vaccine without reference to some control group who did not receive it? Using the same logic, couldn’t we link the vaccine to any other medical condition occurring post-vaccine? Or even grain silo accidents or kitchen mishaps?
catherine
4-25-21, 10:08am
I’ll admit the blood clot thing confuses me a little. Are we justified in assuming those eight or whatever cases are a direct result of the vaccine without reference to some control group who did not receive it? Using the same logic, couldn’t we link the vaccine to any other medical condition occurring post-vaccine? Or even grain silo accidents or kitchen mishaps?
It is probably way too soon to definitively say whether or not the clots were a direct result of the vaccine. However, there are very strict regulatory procedures that demand reporting of ANY adverse event that occurs during the time the medication was taken. As a market researcher, I'm obliged to report to the company's pharmacovigilance department all adverse events, untoward events, and product quality complaints that occur during the time an individual takes the manufacturer's product that come up in the course of interviewing patients, healthcare providers or caregivers. Doesn't matter if I believe the event and the drug are related--that's not for me to decide. Doesn't matter if it was part of a clinical trial, when that data would already have been reported. If the auditors find that I haven't reported those incidents, my company can be fined, corrective procedures will be put in place, and I certainly will lose my contracting gig.
It's only through all this kind of data collection of post-marketing real-world evidence can the powers that be really determine if the clots were related to the vaccine or not, or whether there are any other suspected or unsuspected adverse events that can be attributed directly to the drug.
I’ll admit the blood clot thing confuses me a little. Are we justified in assuming those eight or whatever cases are a direct result of the vaccine without reference to some control group who did not receive it? Using the same logic, couldn’t we link the vaccine to any other medical condition occurring post-vaccine? Or even grain silo accidents or kitchen mishaps?
I suppose you could consider the Modera or Pfizer vaccines as a control group, where there don't seem to be similar incidents with the same reporting system for adverse reactions.
I suppose you could consider the Modera or Pfizer vaccines as a control group, where there don't seem to be similar incidents with the same reporting system for adverse reactions.
And Pfizer and Moderna have been administered to many more people.
I’ll admit the blood clot thing confuses me a little. Are we justified in assuming those eight or whatever cases are a direct result of the vaccine without reference to some control group who did not receive it? Using the same logic, couldn’t we link the vaccine to any other medical condition occurring post-vaccine? Or even grain silo accidents or kitchen mishaps?
These patients are being studies carefully. Background, health issues, use of birth control modalities, pregnancies, births, estrogen drivers, family history......it will be another month or so before we get a full analysis of all the variables.
The world is watching.
It is probably way too soon to definitively say whether or not the clots were a direct result of the vaccine. However, there are very strict regulatory procedures that demand reporting of ANY adverse event that occurs during the time the medication was taken. As a market researcher, I'm obliged to report to the company's pharmacovigilance department all adverse events, untoward events, and product quality complaints that occur during the time an individual takes the manufacturer's product that come up in the course of interviewing patients, healthcare providers or caregivers. Doesn't matter if I believe the event and the drug are related--that's not for me to decide. Doesn't matter if it was part of a clinical trial, when that data would already have been reported. If the auditors find that I haven't reported those incidents, my company can be fined, corrective procedures will be put in place, and I certainly will lose my contracting gig.
It's only through all this kind of data collection of post-marketing real-world evidence can the powers that be really determine if the clots were related to the vaccine or not, or whether there are any other suspected or unsuspected adverse events that can be attributed directly to the drug.
That’s really interesting. I would think that with the large populations involved any number of medical conditions would arise over time. How do you penetrate the statistical fog with any degree of certainty that these minuscule sets of occurrences are actually related to the drug and not random chance? Or is the best you can hope for just compiling a list of potential risks to include on the warning label?
I’m glad I opted for a career in finance. The due diligence could be pretty tricky at times, but nothing like this. Although for our purposes, for a general obligation bond issue we were able to operate at the standard of working with a reasonably prudent person with experience with such transactions. Not someone who couldn’t recognize the wide gap between the benefit of a high degree of immunity from a deadly disease and a tiny risk of contracting another potentially deadly disease.
I don't believe you have children. Ask anyone who does which is the more devastating prospect - losing an elderly parent or losing a child.
I would imagine that a majority of the 24,120 under 50’s who have died of covid still had at least one living parent. Is their grief less worthy than the parents of the 3 people who died from the J&J shot?
These patients are being studies carefully. Background, health issues, use of birth control modalities, pregnancies, births, estrogen drivers, family history......it will be another month or so before we get a full analysis of all the variables.
The world is watching.
Is the world really watching? I would think the vast majority simply assume approved drugs to be relatively safe without giving it that much thought. Do drug warning labels get any more attention than software terms and conditions or credit card privacy policies?
We rely pretty heavily on experts that our drugs will generally do us more good than harm; just as we generally trust that bridges won’t collapse beneath us and our emails will wind up where we send them and our toasters won’t burst into flame. Not because we worship experts. There are any number of credentialed buffoons and crooks out there. It’s more a matter of practical convenience. Who has the time to inform themselves on every aspect of our technological civilization?
The anti-vaccine cult is a very small minority. And I think razz is right that some people refusing shots may be trying to maintain some level of control. And some may have such a problem with needles that they will seize on any pretext not to “trust” vaccines.
I'm just watching Fareed Zakaria on CNN (one of my favorite journalists) and he's doing a piece now on "The Dangers of Playing it Safe"--talking about how dumb it was to take the J&J vaccine off the market for such a baseless risk.
Is the world really watching?
Yes. People want this single shot as they are afraid of needles and nearly 50% won't take another right now. I've been talking about this from ACTUAL experience.
But hey, you know more about this than I do right? I mean, you're calling patients to inform and reschedule and experiencing their responses, you're vaccinating patients who reluctantly switched. And your friends in other cities are telling you the same experiences.........Right?
I'm just watching Fareed Zakaria on CNN (one of my favorite journalists) and he's doing a piece now on "The Dangers of Playing it Safe"--talking about how dumb it was to take the J&J vaccine off the market for such a baseless risk.
All vaccines are being administered under an EUA. This is very different from a FDA approval. A micro subset of a similar reaction reported is going to be a red flag. It is a responsible action to pull back, evaluate, attempt to determine if it's the medication or a unique patient causation. Then determine if the EUA continues.
Yes. People want this single shot as they are afraid of needles and nearly 50% won't take another right now. I've been talking about this from ACTUAL experience.
But hey, you know more about this than I do right? I mean, you're calling patients to inform and reschedule and experiencing their responses, you're vaccinating patients who reluctantly switched. And your friends in other cities are telling you the same experiences.........Right?
If the needle- phobic were that significant a part of the population, wouldn’t we still be dealing with major smallpox outbreaks?
All vaccines are being administered under an EUA. This is very different from a FDA approval. A micro subset of a similar reaction reported is going to be a red flag. It is a responsible action to pull back, evaluate, attempt to determine if it's the medication or a unique patient causation. Then determine if the EUA continues.
I agree.. I was dashing that post off quickly in between doing dishes.. .he didn't say it was "stupid" or it was a "baseless" risk. That was my sloppy paraphrase. His point is that sometimes people interpret risk very emotionally, and the real risk of a situation (lie the perceived risk of letting Muslims into the US post-9-11) is actually very small, especially compared to other risks, like driving, or drowning in a backyard swimming pool.
People get very emotional about their perceptions of safety. I remember post-9/11, when people were traveling on planes again, my coworker came back from a trip and told us "OMG, I was so scared. A man with a turban sat next to me on the plane!"
So I said to her, "The terrorists weren't wearing turbans"--trying to make the point that her logic was pretty faulty. Her fears really were based on at least 3 degrees of separation. She extrapolated the following logic: "The people who flew planes into the World Trade Center were Muslim. Therefore all Muslims are terrorists" and if that weren't bad enough, "Some Muslims wear turbans. Therefore, if someone wears a turban, whether or not they are Muslim, they might be a terrorist." Likewise, some people would say, "All brown skinned people from the Middle East are terrorists."
No wonder we can't all get along.
Idahl, do you not think that just as you are very knowledgeable about financial fraud and its prevalence in the financial industry that Gardnr's knowledge of the the needle-phobic patients in the healthcare industry in which she has served for decades is just as credible?
Both of you are practitioners having to maintain up to date accreditation and take ongoing CE in your fields to properly provide service. While you may not have had to directly deal with a lot of fraud cases in your career, Gardnr has had to directly deal on a daily basis with the general population which includes many of the needle-phobic. We all need to respect that level of knowledge in.
If the needle- phobic were that significant a part of the population, wouldn’t we still be dealing with major smallpox outbreaks?
Minors didn't get a choice. They screamed while getting their vaccine because Mom or Dad said they would. Smallpox vaccines stopped being given in in 1972. (I have no idea your age).
I'll assume you've had a 19yo patient crying her eyes out, that you talked to for 20 minutes b4 she let you give her the injection while pulling away the entire time? I won't tell all the stories of patients I've talked off the ledge in the recent 4 weeks let alone 4 decades.
It's a good thing my professional integrity doesn't rely on your evaluation of my expertise.
Have a lovely day.
I don’t doubt you are very close to and frequently deal with people who fear needles. Where I live, I am very close to and frequently deal with people very concerned about the price of milk. I do not conclude from that, however, that “the world is watching” the price of milk.
iris lilies
4-25-21, 2:12pm
“The Science” says not nearly 50% of patients are needle phobic, especially to the point of failing to get stuck.
There is a wide gap between “i dont like sharp objects stuck in my arm or bum” (because who does?) and “I hyperventilate with fear at the thought of a needle and therefore refuse all voluntary innoculations.”
I could see 80% of people having “needle phobia” if we count those on the entire spectrum with most of the other 20% lying out of bravado.
but why dont we turn to actual data? Even better, meta data.
This pubmed article examines 119 studies about needle phobias and says in results:
: The search yielded 119 original research articles which are included in this review, of which 35 contained sufficient information for meta-analysis. The majority of children exhibited needle fear, while prevalence estimates for needle fear ranged from 20-50% in adolescents and 20-30% in young adults. In general, needle fear decreased with increasing age. Both needle fear and needle phobia were more prevalent in females than males. Avoidance of influenza vaccination because of needle fear occurred in 16% of adult patients, 27% of hospital employees, 18% of workers at long-term care facilities, and 8% of healthcare workers at hospitals. Needle fear was common when undergoing venipuncture, blood donation, and in those with chronic conditions requiring injection.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30109720/
iris lilies
4-25-21, 2:32pm
My own anecdotal infomation, one data poi t out of miloi9ns is that:
1) I am not especially needle phobic and i give blood at the red cross (although stopped last fall when covid ramped up) which is a whole lot more needle intensive than a tiny prick from these covid vaccines
2) I felt the 1st Pfizer shot
3) I did not feel the 2nd Pfizer shot
My conclusion: weenies get the shot!
I just look away and do not watch the needle going in.
The link referred to studies from 1947-2019 but that site also recognizes that this is a recent https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7636457/medical concern affecting about 10% of the population and due to the number of needles received.
We need to recognize that in covid times, the climate of fear in simply gathering in a public place, receiving a 'jab' or two which one hopes to be safe, fearful of any side-effects are not normal times.
Gardnr, thank you for providing conscientious care and support to those coming for their covid shots and helping them deal with their fear.
in addition, I know, for example, that people who received a dental anaesthetic 40 years ago were experiencing a different needle, anaesthetic and approach than would be used today.
Hey Jane, I was just noticing on the Wa.gov website that there is now a state mobile vaccine team who will come to those who are homebound. See the form at:
https://coronavirus.wa.gov/
If I remember correctly, Jane is not truly homebound. She just not gotten her current vehicle fixed and has the means to get it fixed or buy a replacement vehicle. In IL, you have to be truly homebound for someone to bring the vaccine to you.
Heck, if you think you're needle-phobic to the point of not getting vaccinated for covid-19, take a look at how fun intubation is by comparison....
For extra credit, consider that we may well sink an Intraosseous infusion port into you in the ambulance. Hint - it involves drilling/needling into a bone....
Fun times.
I’ll admit the blood clot thing confuses me a little. Are we justified in assuming those eight or whatever cases are a direct result of the vaccine without reference to some control group who did not receive it? Using the same logic, couldn’t we link the vaccine to any other medical condition occurring post-vaccine? Or even grain silo accidents or kitchen mishaps?
I personally know two patients who developed acute alcohol poisoning within two days of receiving their second dose of Moderna. I'm pretty sure one would have died without emergency medical intervention.
iris lilies
4-25-21, 4:29pm
Heck, if you think you're needle-phobic to the point of not getting vaccinated for covid-19, take a look at how fun intubation is by comparison....
For extra credit, consider that we may well sink an Intraosseous infusion port into you in the ambulance. Hint - it involves drilling/needling into a bone....
Fun times.
You can shame them for fear, and scare them with the consequences of dire treatment with intubation. I can ridicule them by calling them weenies.
But none of it really helps the situation does it?
You can shame them for fear, and scare them with the consequences of dire treatment with intubation. I can ridicule them by calling them weenies.
But none of it really helps the situation does it?
No. It only serves to point out how ridiculous they are being. Kind of like the overlapping circles on the venn diagram of people who've been whining about lockdowns and masks for a year and people who refuse to get vaccinated to help end the pandemic.
I don’t doubt you are very close to and frequently deal with people who fear needles. Where I live, I am very close to and frequently deal with people very concerned about the price of milk. I do not conclude from that, however, that “the world is watching” the price of milk.
You are so right. Our experience of more than 50% of patients refusing to get 2 needles instead of 1 when offered, has no statistical value whatsoever. And that same experience in my friends across the country adds up to a big fat zero of significance.
You've made it clear many times that my experience and input has zero value. So why bother commenting on my input at all?
Thank you for your expertise on this issue.
Heck, if you think you're needle-phobic to the point of not getting vaccinated for covid-19, take a look at how fun intubation is by comparison....
For extra credit, consider that we may well sink an Intraosseous infusion port into you in the ambulance. Hint - it involves drilling/needling into a bone....
Fun times.
Dang....intraosseous ports came out after I left for ambulatory care. Missed out on that fun one!
You can shame them for fear, and scare them with the consequences of dire treatment with intubation. I can ridicule them by calling them weenies.
But none of it really helps the situation does it?
I am personally terrified of needles, and have been since I was a wee child.
I have to have my blood drawn 4 times a year, which sucks. I get vaccinated for something-or-another at least once a year. I require somewhere between 1 and 6 shots a month to keep my endocrine system functioning, and I administer those shots myself, which is harrowing.
I also have to deal with patients requiring needles. And even ickier things.
But you know, you can get through this sort of thing...
You are so right. Our experience of more than 50% of patients refusing to get 2 needles instead of 1 when offered, has no statistical value whatsoever.
I have heard people in my local community express a preference for the 1-shot vaccinations base not on needle-fear, but on their belief that scheduling the vaccination is too much of a pain in the patoot, and scheduling two different appointments will be even worse. This is from a community that is especially grumpy about scheduling/reservation systems though, as we have to use a particularly broken and inefficient system these days to use the ferry system that we all rely upon here.
I do wish the initial rollout of scheduling/reservations/appointments/supply for the vaccine had been done, well, considerably better, it was frankly pathetic.
iris lilies
4-25-21, 5:51pm
No. It only serves to point out how ridiculous they are being. how superior we feel.
.
There I fixed it for you.
I have heard people in my local community express a preference for the 1-shot vaccinations base not on needle-fear, but on their belief that scheduling the vaccination is too much of a pain in the patoot, and scheduling two different appointments will be even worse. This is from a community that is especially grumpy about scheduling/reservation systems though, as we have to use a particularly broken and inefficient system these days to use the ferry system that we all rely upon here.
Makes total sense for islanders.
Here? There are 5 major vaccine sites ranging across 20 miles with 3000+ appts per day available. 3 of them are on a bus line. 1 hospital just started a mobile unit yesterday and is going to rural communities for drop-in vaccine. These places are small enough that 100% could be immunized in a single 8 hour day. Very cool. The other hospital is putting their mobile together this week and Tuesday at my site we trial the smartphone e-documentation.
There I fixed it for you.
I suppose if being able to assess data and statistics makes one feel superior than sure.
I am not afraid of needles but I have a serious phobia of medical tests and procedures. I am having those same fears now with a Tuesday appt to get the first Pfizer. It is totally irrational but it's something I deal with anytime a health issue comes up.
I must admit I am a bit of a anti-vaxxer, but I have gotten my first and waiting for my second. My arm was sore a bit - I am a side sleeper so I took some Advil and by morning it was fine.
My SIL felt like he had been hit by a truck after his, but he is convinced he had it last February. My dw is holding out. She is at home most of the time, but I am out in the public for work everyday so I decided to get it. I am surprised how many of my co-workers are completely against it. :-(
ApatheticNoMore
4-26-21, 1:43am
I am not afraid of needles but I have a serious phobia of medical tests and procedures.
oh yea, definitely.
Anyway fears are just fears and I don't mock them, but clearly they are sometimes irrational because duh they are fears, this person is afraid of spiders, and that of flying, and another of needles.
It's the more "skeptical" and cynical than thou crowd that is annoying. "But you don't know all the long term risk ..." (no we can't with absolute certainty, only from time of the first clinical trial). "But pharma companies ..." "But what if it turns out more risky than the virus, I'm right see, unlike you all lining up for it". Most of us have done out reasoning on it though, better any chance that may (may in someone's imagination, not even does for Moderna and Pfizer) exist than the risk of the virus.
ToomuchStuff
4-26-21, 8:34am
I have not been vaccinated yet. A few weeks ago, the local health department, emailed me some dates and times they had. I get my email, typically close to midnight now, so I fell asleep in the process, and the day/time I needed filled up. Th e surviving brother going to dialysis has a huge impact on my schedule and any of the kids (or they feel like it at my age), who have had reactions and taken time off, I worked more.
I tried to get an appointment the last week, however the online signup was having issues (wouldn't let me look at other days and time, so dialysis would have to be missed, then asked a question do you have allergies, yes, next page, no none of the above and couldn't go back). I have to go there tomorrow, so I will see if I can do the form in person, or if I can hit one of the walk in clinics that are opening up.
This has sure been screwy, with dialysis not having enough to provide their patients, multiple times, so the brother had to go elsewhere to get his done, and now all those people thinking that once they have had the shot, they don't have to wear a mask, or thinking the counties lifting restrictions, but not thinking about the cities local health departments, not doing so.
TMS, you have given the perfect explanation for the need for everyone to take precautions regardless of whether they have the 'jab' or not. Why do some people appear to view the world via their 360 degree mirror?
You are especially essential so I do hope things work out for you quickly to give you some peace of mind.
I tend to be wary myself, and am no fan of unnecessary medicines or procedures, so I understand a lot of what I would call "rational skepticism." The people who drive me up the wall are the ones who cite Bill Gates and some international cabal and throw words around like "plandemic" and "sheeple" on social media. I'm sure most of these are trolls or Russian disinformation bots, and the rest of them are gullible sorts wringing their hands over the Hollywood baby-torture set they imagine is high on "adrenochrome." Tiresome.
My rationale is that I am getting one because every single person I know - family, friends, neighbors - has had theirs. I guess I care because if it makes them uncomfortable to be with unvaccinated me, then the separation is not worth it. Recently my older brother wanted to get together but because we are unvaccinated, he declined. The rejection is happening with others too. Quietly, but understood that one becomes a pariah in certain groups.
Teacher Terry
4-26-21, 10:38am
There’s a risk to both taking it and not taking it. Everyone I know is getting it. I was thrilled to get it in February. My friend dying really was sad and eye opening. He took every precautions and never had a chance to get it dying in November. I don’t worry about unvaccinated people since I am.
ApatheticNoMore
4-26-21, 11:36am
The risk of taking it is ... no is not EVEN what I'd call theoretical. Theoretical is when you have a theory about mechanism of action that seems sensible, but hey none of this has actually been tested empirically/scientifically. Most vaccine skeptics don't have any idea why they think the vaccine is harmful (moderna and pfizer at least, the blood clots are real but I agree with that tiny an occurrence you are pushing the limits of what could ever be shown). It's just the unknown, it hasn't yet been proven long term (and it could not have possibly been as it is new). The risk of not taking it is the actual risk of getting coronavirus and however it ends up affecting one. I don't think those are any way equivalent.
I take it because I ultimately don't have control over when I will be crammed in a tiny office etc.. I'm at the mercy of much larger forces, regarding my risk of catching corona, and so it's just obvious, vaccine or coronavirus, I'll take vaccine. Also I'm sick of living like this also of course, quality of life, and the vaccine is the way out, the only one we have, we aren't New Zealand, if only, but.
Teacher Terry
4-26-21, 11:49am
Quality of life is really important! The vaccine gave me back my life. The end of may my friend and I are taking the train to California to visit another friend. Priceless!
I called and the vaccine I am signed up for next month is Moderna so I am relieved. If I find a vaccine I want at a convenient time and place in my own state before then I will take it. A friend of mine checks cancellation lists for a place that adminsters Pfizer and is keeping an eye out for me.
Set to get mine later today even though DH continues to send me scary email links to why I shouldn't get one. I wonder if he is really concerned about my health or just fears losing his last holdout on not being vaccinated. This past year has really done a number on him.
I hope it goes well for you, pinkytoe. I just tell myself, when I worry about the vaccine, or others who are against the vaccine worry about the vaccine, that I have fought off much worse things than a dumb little vaccine, and not to worry about it.
I was moderately sick after both shots, but definitely feel good about my decision to get the vaccine. Tell him, "I am stronger than this vaccine; it cannot hurt me."
That's what I did, anyway.
ToomuchStuff
4-27-21, 11:59am
I tend to be wary myself, and am no fan of unnecessary medicines or procedures, so I understand a lot of what I would call "rational skepticism." The people who drive me up the wall are the ones who cite Bill Gates and some international cabal and throw words around like "plandemic" and "sheeple" on social media.
I understand what you are talking about with the Bill Gates thing (seem to remember some video of him last year, saying everyone should be chipped), but the term "plandemic" in my view is correct.
Why do we have things like a CDC, or hospitals, plans for martial law, etc. if not planning for things that can happen in life.
The Sheeple just fail the critical thinking ability and believe that the rain is caused by man's mass production of umbrella's.
I understand what you are talking about with the Bill Gates thing (seem to remember some video of him last year, saying everyone should be chipped), but the term "plandemic" in my view is correct.
Why do we have things like a CDC, or hospitals, plans for martial law, etc. if not planning for things that can happen in life.
The Sheeple just fail the critical thinking ability and believe that the rain is caused by man's mass production of umbrella's.
If "plandemic" indicated critical preparation for medical crises (as we had in place before Trump canceled it), instead of cynical dismissal of global infections, that would be something else entirely. I haven't been able to find any evidence that Bill Gates is advocating universal chipping, or that the Hollywood elite is into baby torture, or that a DC pizza parlor hosts a pedophile ring, either.
If "plandemic" indicated critical preparation for medical crises (as we had in place before Trump canceled it), instead of cynical dismissal of global infections, that would be something else entirely. I haven't been able to find any evidence that Bill Gates is advocating universal chipping, or that the Hollywood elite is into baby torture, or that a DC pizza parlor hosts a pedophile ring, either.
It's not in the pizza parlor anymore Jane, it's child sex slaves trying to get out of the container ships they're locked in that caused the tanker to get stuck in the Suez Canal, at least according to what my aunt told my mother. She is also convinced the vaccine is meant to kill off the poor people so more resources will be left for the rich in some Illuminati style plot.
The thing I always wonder about is what is the motivation behind folks who promote scary alternative theories? I know some like Alex Jones have products to sell but why spend one's days on the internet throwing out propaganda. What is the point? Are they looking for followers, ie enjoying their power? Are they trying to "save" others? I just don't get it.
It's not in the pizza parlor anymore Jane, it's child sex slaves trying to get out of the container ships they're locked in that caused the tanker to get stuck in the Suez Canal, at least according to what my aunt told my mother. She is also convinced the vaccine is meant to kill off the poor people so more resources will be left for the rich in some Illuminati style plot.
It's so hard to stay caught up! ;)
The thing I always wonder about is what is the motivation behind folks who promote scary alternative theories? I know some like Alex Jones have products to sell but why spend one's days on the internet throwing out propaganda. What is the point? Are they looking for followers, ie enjoying their power? Are they trying to "save" others? I just don't get it.
I think some are paid to fling disinformation about (Russian bots are famous for destabilizing rumors). A lot of people spreading conspiracy theories seem to come from poorer countries and have dubious profiles. Some, of course, really believe these fantastic tales.
DH continues to send me scary email links to why I shouldn't get one
Yours too? He keeps sending me these "official" looking studies, but when I do a quick Wikipedia or fact check on them, they are from quacks and highly questionable sources (eg vanity journals where the author pays to have it published and it is not peer reviewed, and is highly speculative over something that theoretically could happen). One he sent yesterday I read, and was giving the benefit of the doubt to, until I got to the "covid and the vaccine are bioweapons sponsored by the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation", Huge eye roll.
The whole Bill gates wants to chip everyone thing seems so absurd for two reasons. One, why would he care what everyone is doing? And two, what’s the need. Most of us carry a chip around in our pocket or purse willingly. And pay for the privilege of doing so.
You have to watch those billionaires who willingly give their money away. What's their underlying motive? Why aren't they sheltering all their cash off-shore, like so many others? Very suspicious, if you ask me. undoubtedly up to no good.;)
ToomuchStuff
4-27-21, 4:05pm
The whole Bill gates wants to chip everyone thing seems so absurd for two reasons. One, why would he care what everyone is doing? And two, what’s the need. Most of us carry a chip around in our pocket or purse willingly. And pay for the privilege of doing so.
I don't know he wants to microchip everyone, my understanding is it was just another data point for governments and epidemiologists to use, such as the cell phones that have had health data pushed on to them. It is a tool, that could be implemented in a cost effective way, in third world countries, where cell service has issues (governments could go into area's with readers to obtain infection rate statistics, etc). As well as countries where people are starting to move to carry their data in microchips, such as we do in this country with our pets. Not every country has the rights we do in this one, so there will be countries, where people are a resource more then a citizen.
I went to see if I could find the video, but I deleted it around that time. I understand both sides, however do not agree with either that things are one extreme or the other. Two links:
http://youtu.be/Tk7av9IlfTg
https://www.npr.org/2018/10/22/658808705/thousands-of-swedes-are-inserting-microchips-under-their-skin
(https://www.npr.org/2018/10/22/658808705/thousands-of-swedes-are-inserting-microchips-under-their-skin)
ToomuchStuff
4-27-21, 4:10pm
And on the humorous side:
https://youtu.be/YEbQgKIXWVc
The whole Bill gates wants to chip everyone thing seems so absurd for two reasons. One, why would he care what everyone is doing? And two, what’s the need. Most of us carry a chip around in our pocket or purse willingly. And pay for the privilege of doing so.
Everyone with a smart phone is already chipped. Anything who thinks they turned it off? Wrong. No need to chip a vaccine the first world.
Everyone with a smart phone is already chipped. Anything who thinks they turned it off? Wrong.
I'm curious. I have wideband receivers and a spectrum analyzer here, and when my phone is "off", it seems to be pretty-darned-off, and isn't emitting any signal that I can detect, even the baseline RF that any significant active circuitry would produce.
I have it on good authority that a little aluminum foil can keep Bill Gates from reading your thoughts.
I have it on good authority that a little aluminum foil can keep Bill Gates from reading your thoughts.
Indeed. A faraday cage for the brain! What a great idea!
I have it on good authority that a little aluminum foil can keep Bill Gates from reading your thoughts.
What about wearing garlic on a string around your neck? That should fend off a few other people too.
I'm curious. I have wideband receivers and a spectrum analyzer here, and when my phone is "off", it seems to be pretty-darned-off, and isn't emitting any signal that I can detect, even the baseline RF that any significant active circuitry would produce.
To clarify, not as in 'power off' but as in, a lot of people seem to believe they have turned off the tracking. The fine print at the bottom of that screen clearly states the tracking is not off, the report is off so you won't see it anymore.
To clarify, not as in 'power off' but as in, a lot of people seem to believe they have turned off the tracking. The fine print at the bottom of that screen clearly states the tracking is not off, the report is off so you won't see it anymore.
Ha, oh yes, if that phone is on.... It's always got something to say, to someone :-)
Is this guy a childish outlier for admitting that his reason for not getting vaccinated is to own the libs? Or has he just said out loud the most common reason so many republicans don’t want the vaccine?
https://amgreatness.com/2021/04/26/i-wont-take-the-vaccine-because-it-makes-liberals-mad/
I heard on the radio today while there is a shortage of vaccines for people in some parts of the country, animals in the zoos are getting covid vaccines. Now I am an animal lover and vegetarian, but I would put people first.
animals in the zoos are getting covid vaccines.
Different vaccine. You can skip the outrage on this one. https://coronavirus.nautil.us/can-animals-get-the-covid-vaccine/ and https://www.npr.org/2021/03/16/975405670/zoo-vaccinates-apes-to-protect-both-animals-and-humans-from-covid-19
Well my state finally had an appointment that worked for me. I will get it the Saturday before Mother's Day and since my mom doesn't want to go on an excursion this year even if I get sick from it I can stay home and chill, or just see her briefly. It will be Moderna.
Massachusetts is definitely getting easier to get a vaccine. I spent a good deal of time in April trying to get one, but just now logged onto Walmart and got one for Tuesday. Right in my town.
If I remember correctly, Jane is not truly homebound. She just not gotten her current vehicle fixed and has the means to get it fixed or buy a replacement vehicle. In IL, you have to be truly homebound for someone to bring the vaccine to you.
And getting the car fixed has become one of those "impossible tasks" that I'm endlessly procrastinating over. Thank goodness I'm safe from being infected or infecting anyone else from here in the bunker--but the state form does have a check-off for what looks like my situation.
I have no problem with needles and used to give blood regularly, but I did get woozy watching a friend get a wound stitched up once.
We got an email at work from the city our business is in on Moderna vaccines. You can sign up to receive them locally but they are only offering the shots for two more weeks and you have to get the two Moderna shots four weeks apart. This is another example of the rollout issues in my state.
iris lilies
4-29-21, 9:08am
We got an email at work from the city our business is in on Moderna vaccines. You can sign up to receive them locally but they are only offering the shots for two more weeks and you have to get the two Moderna shots four weeks apart. This is another example of the rollout issues in my state.
That is dumb! Agreed.
A coworker of mine thought that was dumb also and contacted them and they will ensure everyone gets their second vaccine in town. So I signed up for tomorrow. Can't wait to get this and the pandemic over and done with.
I got my first Pfizer finally. Nothing but a sore arm so far. Now I have to buck up for the second one in May.
Nice article on how to encourage people to get their darned vaccination:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/30/opinions/secret-weapon-ending-pandemic-mcbride/index.html
ApatheticNoMore
4-30-21, 10:31pm
I hear you Jane on the arthritis of the knee, my mom has it, her mom had it before her. Already realizing I can't do exercises that strain the knee excessively like squats, but that's just "hey stupid, don't do squats, your knees aren't built for that". My mom is otherwise she is quite healthy at her age - in her 80s - she's either got many years ahead or will go in near perfect (except for the darn knees) healthy probably.
I’m usually not one for government forcing people to do stuff, but in this case, it needs to be mandated. The only people allowed to skip would be those with real medical reasons. No religious exemptions. You don’t get the vaccine, you don’t get to do a lot of stuff. A number of private universities in the Chicago area have mandated students have to be vaccinated to attend classes/live on campus in the fall.
I'm fine with the government, or business, or individuals, not allowing non-vaccinated people to engage in some activities in spaces where there may be danger of transmission. I've had to do this several times with whooping cough outbreaks for some preschools I helped run here, here in the heart of hippy-dippy anti-vax sentiment.
However, I don't think it is appropriate for government to force people arbitrarily to receive a medical treatment against their will.
In Georgia they are giving out $25 Walmart gift cards to people who agree to be vaccinated, but there's nothing like that in my area.
I got my first Moderna dose last night and they wanted me to get my second 3 1/2 weeks later on a Tuesday in the middle of the day. It is supposed to be given 28 to up to 42 days later, not that soon. I came home and spent all evening looking and found a place in New Hampshire and signed up for my second dose there 29 days later on a Saturday. I will have Memorial Day weekend to recover from any side effects. I get paid out for my unused sick days at the end of the year and I don't want to waste them on vaccines.
None of the sites in either Massachusetts or NH let you search by type of vaccine if you are looking for a second dose. That made it extra time consuming.
My arm is sore, last night I felt chilly, and I'm a little draggy, but nothing too bad but I hear the second shot is the bitch. One customer at work said within a half hour it hit him like a ton of bricks.
In Georgia they are giving out $25 Walmart gift cards to people who agree to be vaccinated, but there's nothing like that in my area.
I got my first Moderna dose last night and they wanted me to get my second 3 1/2 weeks later on a Tuesday in the middle of the day. It is supposed to be given 28 to up to 42 days later, not that soon. I came home and spent all evening looking and found a place in New Hampshire and signed up for my second dose there 29 days later on a Saturday. I will have Memorial Day weekend to recover from any side effects. I get paid out for my unused sick days at the end of the year and I don't want to waste them on vaccines.
None of the sites in either Massachusetts or NH let you search by type of vaccine if you are looking for a second dose. That made it extra time consuming.
My arm is sore, last night I felt chilly, and I'm a little draggy, but nothing too bad but I hear the second shot is the bitch. One customer at work said within a half hour it hit him like a ton of bricks.
Glad you were finally able to get vaccinated.
None of the sites in either Massachusetts or NH let you search by type of vaccine if you are looking for a second dose.
I used the federal site, and unselected the check boxes for the vaccines I wasn't interested in. https://www.vaccines.gov/search/ Why would Massachusetts replicate what is already out there?
Got my second dose today, though with just one dose I had a higher level of protection than with J&J. I hope everyone else who wanted a vaccine has been able to get one also. Distribution in my state is now switching to child oriented sites like schools and the Museum of Science, but I imagine adults can still get a vaccine if they want one and put in some effort, the state's vaccine website having been shut down now.
So sad that DH still refuses to get vaccinated:(
It really puts a crimp on summer plans.
I hear you Jane on the arthritis of the knee, my mom has it, her mom had it before her. Already realizing I can't do exercises that strain the knee excessively like squats, but that's just "hey stupid, don't do squats, your knees aren't built for that". My mom is otherwise she is quite healthy at her age - in her 80s - she's either got many years ahead or will go in near perfect (except for the darn knees) healthy probably.
I'm frustrated by mobility issues (genetic from both parents), but in the big scheme of things, I'm thankful for what does work--which is mostly everything else. The only drug I take is aspirin or an equivalent.
"However, I don't think it is appropriate for government to force people arbitrarily to receive a medical treatment against their will."--that's my opinion on the matter, too.
I have several vaccine providers near me, and it looks like Community Transit can get me there. All I need is to schedule the appropriate appointments.
Jane, several states have vaccine delivery for homebound individuals. Perhaps you would qualify?
happystuff
5-29-21, 10:16am
So sorry Jane and ANM about the pain and mobility issues. I can't even imagine the frustration! sweetana3's suggestion about delivery may be a good option. Good luck.
rosarugosa
5-29-21, 1:08pm
So sad that DH still refuses to get vaccinated:(
It really puts a crimp on summer plans.
I'm sorry, PT. That must be so frustrating for you and undoubtedly creates concern for your DH's health as well.
Jane, several states have vaccine delivery for homebound individuals. Perhaps you would qualify?
That's another option.
One of the three holdouts at my work site says he will get vaccinated now that the state is setting up a vaccine lottery. Adults past school age can win $1 million dollars. Those younger get a scholarship or if disabled a trust fund.
My daughter, in the UK, will just be eligible for her first dose this coming Thursday.
ToomuchStuff
6-15-21, 12:54pm
My daughter, in the UK, will just be eligible for her first dose this coming Thursday.
Is it because she isn't a UK citizen? (wondering why the delay)
catherine
6-15-21, 12:55pm
So proud of Vermont. First state to have 80% of all eligible people vaccinated! Also the lowest rate of cases and deaths on the Continental 48. We have lifted all restrictions and states of emergency as of yesterday.
Is it because she isn't a UK citizen? (wondering why the delay)
Age. They are just opening up the <25 age range. She’s bought into the NHS and has a visa, it isn’t a citizenship issue.
Age limitations do create limits to eligibility. Finally everyone over age 12 can access Ontario's appointment booking site for both first and second jabs properly spaced apart. Canada had to wait until vaccines were available.
iris lilies
6-15-21, 1:20pm
Age limitations do create limits to eligibility. Finally everyone under age 12 can access Ontario's appointment booking site for both first and second jabs properly spaced apart. Canada had to wait until vaccines were available.
Is the vaccine now ok’d for youth? I had thought our delay was due to untested for kids status.
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