View Full Version : Whiney Whine
I hate masks and JP hates Trump. Here is the thread you have all been asking for.
Ha ha, as if either of you could contain your obsessions in just one thread. :laff:
iris lilies
12-5-21, 9:53pm
Ha ha, as if either of you could contain your obsessions in just one thread. :laff:
We can only dream.
I hate trump and yppej hates little bits of cloth. Hopefully she also hates jackasses who want to overthrow elections. But who knows. A lot of people here seem to be cool with that. I try to believe they aren’t just ****ing assholes but maybe they are.
I am not cool with attempts to violently overthrow the government. All my attempts to get rid of the mask mandate have been peaceful and nonviolent. I have asked the mayor and city council to remove the Board of Health and I have asked the Board of Health members to resign. To force a city charter election and change their positions to elective so they can be removed from office would require collecting thousands of signatures. The other way is for the city council to invoke a charter commission. I spoke with the chair of the city council. They are likely to do this in the next year not for me, but because they want to up signature requirements to run for office - always trying to restrict democracy. But at that time they will take other charter revisions under advisement including mine.
So far I am stuck with the existing Board who aren't elected and two thirds of whom don't even live in the city. It's like when we couldn't vote for those who governed us in colonial times. They were either appointed by the King or by a Parliament where we did not have votes, and the colonial governors did not live in our community but were sent over from England. If I were more courageous I would tar and feather these folks and ride them out of town on a rail, but I'm not going to.
I think your peaceful protesting is a lot more effective and a lot more ethical. And good for you for working peacefully for change.
I heard about the Federal mask mandate on various forms of transit being extended to mid March but nothing about medical settings. I called my doctor's office and pushed off my physical scheduled for February to August.
The hospitals are full now with people who postponed medical care, I may as well join the trend.
ToomuchStuff
12-8-21, 10:52am
4109
I feel like there needs to be a party, wearing these, at a pizza place. Thank me.:laff:
frugal-one
12-8-21, 5:29pm
The 11th commandment
2020 A.D. Supplemental
Thou shall not covet thy neighbor’s life
Wear thy mask
… could not get the picture to copy unfortunately…
rosarugosa
12-8-21, 6:49pm
4109
I feel like there needs to be a party, wearing these, at a pizza place. Thank me.:laff:
lol
Everyone in highly vaccinated NYC which is doing well now has to mask up because people in upstate New York aren't getting their shots and are quitting their hospital jobs over mandates. It's one size fits all!
And in my states forcible booster shots are starting for college students. Heaven forbid we send the shots to the Third World where people want them and can't get them and where variants keep arising. No, we must force Americans to get vaccinated again and again instead. Because after seeing Delta arise in India we decided to double down on hogging vaccines, only to see Omicron arise in South Africa. American exceptionalism sucks!
You should move to Missouri. They have much more strongly pro-death politicians. Their attorney general is devoting lots of effort into making sure that county health departments don’t actually do anything to promote public health. You would be able to go naked faced regardless of how bad the next wave of covid is.
You should move to Missouri. They have much more strongly pro-death politicians. Their attorney general is devoting lots of effort into making sure that county health departments don’t actually do anything to promote public health. You would be able to go naked faced regardless of how bad the next wave of covid is.
I am doing what I can where I am. Also I found four libraries to go to that don't require masks. One I have not been to yet. At two of the other three the staff don't wear masks. It is so nice and normal. People are happy and smile and you can see their smiles.
iris lilies
12-11-21, 2:43pm
You should move to Missouri. They have much more strongly pro-death politicians. Their attorney general is devoting lots of effort into making sure that county health departments don’t actually do anything to promote public health. You would be able to go naked faced regardless of how bad the next wave of covid is.
While I’m not the expert on Missouri politicians that you are, I do know that I’m expected to wear a mask when I’m tooling around my city.
Politicians in my city However do seem to be pro death because when citizens are shooting up each other, their reaction is to blame someone other than the shooters.
And there, I’ve just put out as many over the top, silly generalizations as you did about my state.
When your attorney general chooses to go after local public health authorities rather than appeal a lower court judgement against them regarding local mask mandates it’s pretty clear that he’s not interested in preserving life.
iris lilies
12-11-21, 4:09pm
When your attorney general chooses to go after local public health authorities rather than appeal a lower court judgement against them regarding local mask mandates it’s pretty clear that he’s not interested in preserving life.
Your premise is so silly I’m not going to respond.
When your attorney general chooses to go after local public health authorities rather than appeal a lower court judgement against them regarding local mask mandates it’s pretty clear that he’s not interested in preserving life.
It has nothing to do with life. People can still wear masks if they want. If the fabric stops particles going out it is also stops them coming in. It is not some special one-way only fabric.
The real reason cases are spiking now is people spending long periods of time indoors with others at family gatherings for Thanksgiving and traveling to and from those gatherings bunched up against people in long lines at the airports (where masks are required).
It has nothing to do with passing someone briefly in the supermarket aisle or library without a mask on. Get real.
There will be another spike after Christmas gatherings. If you want to stop covid play the Grinch and start lobbying the government to ban family gatherings.
Your premise is so silly I’m not going to respond.
It's just a few extra dead people so I can see why you don't care. Just as your shitty governor didn't care to release the study your taxes paid for that confirmed that mask mandates work to save lives. And republicans wonder why the rest of us just shake our heads in bafflement at how stupid they sound when they claim to be "pro-life".
https://www.news-leader.com/story/opinion/2021/12/09/missouris-gop-leaders-deny-science-and-put-us-all-risk/6425345001/
iris lilies
12-11-21, 6:06pm
It's just a few extra dead people so I can see why you don't care. Just as your shitty governor didn't care to release the study your taxes paid for that confirmed that mask mandates work to save lives. And republicans wonder why the rest of us just shake our heads in bafflement at how stupid they sound when they claim to be "pro-life".
https://www.news-leader.com/story/opinion/2021/12/09/missouris-gop-leaders-deny-science-and-put-us-all-risk/6425345001/
Our governor’s failure to release the report about masking was silly also, I agree.
There’s lots of silliness around Covid. Covid protocols and warriors for same.Covid deniers. Lots and lots of silliness.
There’s also some common sense taking place here too. Probably there’s some common sense taking place in your household as well. Probably.
It's just a few extra dead people so I can see why you don't care. Just as your shitty governor didn't care to release the study your taxes paid for that confirmed that mask mandates work to save lives. And republicans wonder why the rest of us just shake our heads in bafflement at how stupid they sound when they claim to be "pro-life".
https://www.news-leader.com/story/opinion/2021/12/09/missouris-gop-leaders-deny-science-and-put-us-all-risk/6425345001/
I see the opinion piece you provided was written by a budding politician hoping to unseat a sitting opponent and provides no details of the issue to go along with the commentary. Does this issue that has you so upset simply have to do with whether or not a state should use its power to set and enforce mandates? If so, I think there's lots of philosophical room to navigate the issue without simply assuming that everyone who disagrees with you wants people to die. Did you ever consider they may simply want people to live free while still encouraging people to take appropriate safety measures for themselves and their loved ones?
So should we do away with drunk driving laws and just ‘encourage’ people not to drink and drive? People who are worried about their family’s safety will surely take the appropriate steps to keep them safe so it should be fine. More freedom for everyone.
So should we do away with drunk driving laws and just ‘encourage’ people not to drink and drive? People who are worried about their family’s safety will surely take the appropriate steps to keep them safe so it should be fine. More freedom for everyone.
The difference is everyone agrees when a motor vehicle accident is caused by drunk driving. Yes, a defense attorney might try to portray it another way but everyone knows.
There is not broad societal agreement on the efficacy of masks. One of the great tragedies of the pandemic is not being allowed to say your goodbyes to loved ones dying of covid. The hospitals did not say, "Put on any random cloth face covering and come on in." They said the opposite.
So should we do away with drunk driving laws and just ‘encourage’ people not to drink and drive? People who are worried about their family’s safety will surely take the appropriate steps to keep them safe so it should be fine. More freedom for everyone.
It seems to me that all governing bodies seem to go out of their way to please their base, sometimes by imposing their will on others. In this country we often confuse government's agnosticism in certain areas of personal freedom with government authorized rights. In my lifetime we've seen many instances of our government's restoration of personal freedom by cancelling its enforcement of racial, gender and sexual laws/mandates along with a host of other examples. This represents our classical liberal roots and I believe it to be overall good for our society. It's too bad that liberalism has been usurped with fascist progressivism where people now believe it's ok to impose their will on others. Personally I think it's refreshing to see governments, even if it's just on a local level, refuse to give in to calls for authoritarianism. It puzzles me that progressives see it otherwise.
I suppose you're right. We should do away with the tyranny of public health laws. Restaurants that want to engage in safe food handling practices can make that a feature of their sales pitch to potential customers. Less concerned customers could save money by going to restaurants that haven't spent as much money on refrigerators and soap and exterminators. And if people get hepatitis or salmonella while eating there then we can all shrug our shoulders because they had the freedom to choose how much risk they wanted to accept.
I suppose you're right.
Now we're getting somewhere. I suspect by the end of this decade I'll have you agreeing that agnostic Republicanism is a superior governing principle to reactionary Democracy. ;)
Now we're getting somewhere. I suspect by the end of this decade I'll have you agreeing that agnostic Republicanism is a superior governing principle to reactionary Democracy. ;)
I'm looking forward to my first case of freedom food poisoning!
I'm looking forward to my first case of freedom food poisoning!
Government is no substitute for Caveat Emptor. If you allow otherwise they'll soon be mandating all your choices.
Government is no substitute for Caveat Emptor. If you allow otherwise they'll soon be mandating all your choices.
Or I'll be able to continue to eat out without significant concern about food safety. It doesn't seem particularly efficient for each customer to have to spend 30-45 minutes doing their own health inspection every time they want to eat in a restaurant. The kitchen would be a mob scene of customers with clipboards and thermometers during the busy times. Having the county health inspector do this a couple times a year and then plastering a big A grade sign on the door if all is good makes a lot more sense.
Government is no substitute for Caveat Emptor. If you allow otherwise they'll soon be mandating all your choices.
This is such a great read btw:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51WTdUgRFIL._SX309_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
Or I'll be able to continue to eat out without significant concern about food safety. It doesn't seem particularly efficient for each customer to have to spend 30-45 minutes doing their own health inspection every time they want to eat in a restaurant. The kitchen would be a mob scene of customers with clipboards and thermometers during the busy times. Having the county health inspector do this a couple times a year and then plastering a big A grade sign on the door if all is good makes a lot more sense.
Those twice yearly inspections are great. That's why you never find alcohol or tobacco being sold to minors. Traffic roadblocks put up twice a year stop the drunk drivers. And the twice yearly drug sniffing dogs have kept contraband out of our schools.
Of course there are the restaurants that have relocated to other communities because my city went after them for the hand washing sink being one foot away from where it should have been and other similar offenses.
Doesn't Michelin check the cleanliness and quality of restaurants in France without a whole government bureaucracy?
Amazing how we survived as a country. Being in a historic part of the country I see numerous places where Washington ate or slept, all without such amenities as indoor plumbing. Yet we survived.
Actually they have government restaurant inspections in France, the same as in every other first world country.
https://www.alim-confiance.gouv.fr/
They even have an app so that one can easily pull up the results of a restaurant’s most recent inspection before deciding whether to eat there.
Or I'll be able to continue to eat out without significant concern about food safety.
Since most meals are eaten in, should we mandate scheduled inspections of home kitchens and procedures, you know, just to be sure?
I've lost track of most of the point, but if it's personal freedom vs public health and safety, I'm glad smoking is prohibited in most indoor public spaces. I can see similarities to Covid mandates. And for that matter, corporate pollutions.
I've lost track of most of the point, but if it's personal freedom vs public health and safety, I'm glad smoking is prohibited in most indoor public spaces. I can see similarities to Covid mandates. And for that matter, corporate pollutions.
Can you smoke if you're outdoors by yourself miles from other people in a state park?
Because at one point in my state we were ordered to wear masks in those circumstances. While officials took off their masks at press conferences so they would look better on TV.
I'm not a Democrat, but you know what, I like government, when it can do for me things I can't do on my own. I can't pave highways, or create my own clean water facility or keep people from dumping their toxic stuff in my neighborhood. I'm glad I can depend on government to do that. When there is a weather disaster, or a public health crisis, I am glad that there are people and resources available to handle that.
I really don't want a future where its everyone on their own.
Because at one point in my state we were ordered to wear masks in those circumstances. ?
Is that still the case?
There were a lot of knee jerk reactions early on, and before vaccines. I don't recall any outdoor restrictions like that anywhere I know of. Although I think smoking is prohibited in some outdoor public spaces.
EDIT: Or more broadly, are indoor smoking bans a violation of personal freedom and how does that differ from Covid mandates? Without citing obscure cases as noted,.
EDIT: Or more broadly, are indoor smoking bans a violation of personal freedom and how does that differ from Covid mandates? Without citing obscure cases as noted,.
I wouldn't consider an indoor smoking ban in public places to be a personal freedom issue, you can always go elsewhere. But I would consider a state/nation wide ban to be so.
I also recall talk of smoking bans in private homes some years ago in California I believe. Not sure if that gained any traction beyond a heartfelt effort to make it so.
?
Is that still the case?
There were a lot of knee jerk reactions early on, and before vaccines. I don't recall any outdoor restrictions like that anywhere I know of. Although I think smoking is prohibited in some outdoor public spaces.
EDIT: Or more broadly, are indoor smoking bans a violation of personal freedom and how does that differ from Covid mandates? Without citing obscure cases as noted,.
No, not still the case, but there is still lots of hypocrisy. There is an indoor mask mandate in Boston now but not if you are a politician giving a news conference, or a professional athlete, or playing in the Boston Symphony Orchestra. The rules only apply to the little people, the servant class, the disempowered.
Work at a state university or city hall anywhere in the state? Just say your cubicle is 6 feet from others (a random distance with no scientific basis) and you can ditch the mask. But if you are student, or a member of the public, you could be 10 or 100 or more feet from others and you must wear a mask. Are you one of two servants walking beyond AOC holding up the train of her Tax the Rich dress? You must wear a mask but she doesn't have to.
Is the outdoor mask mandate gone? Yes. Is the hypocrisy gone? Not at all.
I wouldn't consider an indoor smoking ban in public places to be a personal freedom issue, you can always go elsewhere. But I would consider a state/nation wide ban to be so.
I also recall talk of smoking bans in private homes some years ago in California I believe. Not sure if that gained any traction beyond a heartfelt effort to make it so.
I'm not quite following. It's not a personnal freedom to smoke in indoor public spaces, but it should be allowed regardless and those who think they are at risk could go elsewhere? Sort of sounds like a personal freedom issue to me. The break rooms and cafeterias of my former work space used to have smoking areas. The alternative was to not take breaks in breakrooms. That really restricted my freedoms. Of course that changed eventually.
I'm not quite following. It's not a personnal freedom to smoke in indoor public spaces, but it should be allowed regardless and those who think they are at risk could go elsewhere? I think you misunderstood my reply. I don't believe it's a violation of personal freedom to ban smoking in indoor public spaces such as bars, restaurants, movie theaters, office buildings, etc., because it's not your space. If someone wants to smoke while out they are free to go elsewhere.
I think you misunderstood my reply. I don't believe it's a violation of personal freedom to ban smoking in indoor public spaces such as bars, restaurants, movie theaters, office buildings, etc., because it's not your space. If someone wants to smoke while out they are free to go elsewhere.
So it's the personal freedom of the business owner to make the smoking rules? I see law suits.
In the case of Covid mandates, with ICU and hospital beds near capacity due to unvaccinated, I suppose it's my personal choice to go to a hospital in another county or state, like has been in the news, in case I had a stroke or heart attack.
So it's the personal freedom of the business owner to make the smoking rules? I see law suits.
I think the only time we've seen lawsuits is when the state tells a business owner they must enforce a no smoking rule and they disagree.
In the case of Covid mandates, with ICU and hospital beds near capacity due to unvaccinated, I suppose it's my personal choice to go to a hospital in another county or state, like has been in the news, in case I had a stroke or heart attack.
Yes, I think you have some discretion on where you'd like to be treated.
I've mentioned here before something I've never seen reported in all the breathless media coverage of hospitals operating at capacity. When my wife was hospitalized recently we discovered that our local hospital was operating at half capacity due to covid restrictions. They reached operational capacity when 50% of their total capacity was met.
Being a magnanamous sort, I could see signs warning that so and so establishment is a smoking area, or an unvaccinated and maskless area. Enter at your own risk with statement from the surgeon general noting the risks and the owner assumes no responsibility. Of course that isn't the way things are going. I'm not current on our woke state laws, but I think there are clubs here where people can go to smoke marijuana and that's their choice. Although the marijuana laws have had a push back from conservatives. I think I've even seen proposals for safe zones for heroin use, but maybe that was California or Oregon.
In some cases it's a fine line where some personal freedoms of the minority impact the freedoms of the majority or the vulnerable. That seems like the crux of things.
I think the only time we've seen lawsuits is when the state tells a business owner they must enforce a no smoking rule and they disagree.
"This paper describes secondhand smoke (SHS) litigation over the past quarter century where non-smoking litigants have prevailed and attempts to decipher trends in the law that may impact the course of future cases."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1766141/pdf/v013p00i61.pdf
Since most meals are eaten in, should we mandate scheduled inspections of home kitchens and procedures, you know, just to be sure?
No, that would be silly. But we should probably continue to support the health Inspections that happen in grocery stores. Most of the customers there are probably no more interested in carrying around a clipboard and thermometer before they buy their groceries than the patrons of restaurants.
No, that would be silly. But we should probably continue to support the health Inspections that happen in grocery stores. Most of the customers there are probably no more interested in carrying around a clipboard and thermometer before they buy their groceries than the patrons of restaurants.
Or you could trust the USDA to do its job. Their twice a year or however few random inspections, which have decreased over the years, are fine, right? They did a great job keeping covid out of meatpacking plants, right? Hip hip hooray for government! Let's leave it all to them and not evaluate anything ourselves. Their stamp of approval is all we need.
Or you could become vegetarian like me. Problem solved.
rosarugosa
12-13-21, 6:29am
Or you could trust the USDA to do its job. Their twice a year or however few random inspections, which have decreased over the years, are fine, right? They did a great job keeping covid out of meatpacking plants, right? Hip hip hooray for government! Let's leave it all to them and not evaluate anything ourselves. Their stamp of approval is all we need.
Or you could become vegetarian like me. Problem solved.
Being a vegetarian does not solve the problem of foodborne illness.
Or you could trust the USDA to do its job. .
You don’t seem to understand what restaurant and grocery store health inspections are expected to accomplish.
Being a vegetarian does not solve the problem of foodborne illness.
The last food alert I saw for salmonella was for onions on the east coast. Lettuce is another popular offender.
ToomuchStuff
12-13-21, 11:21am
So it's the personal freedom of the business owner to make the smoking rules? I see law suits.
It was in our area, until cities started discussing and then passing no smoking ordinances city wide around the same time. The exceptions were the gambling boats and bars (for a time). One cigar store sued as it was also a smoking club (believe it was settled, but the story went away quick and quiet).
I think the only time we've seen lawsuits is when the state tells a business owner they must enforce a no smoking rule and they disagree.
This, so much.
There were fines on the business for not enforcing them (and the individuals in the business), yet no ability to detain or arrest, no protections from assault, etc.
Workers in restaurants were assaulted and the push back against the cities, eliminated the fines on them and enforcement became a health code and police matter (code enforcement officers, typically always get a police backup, restaurant employees didn't).
We used this time to close and remodel/repaint/carpet, oven rebuild, etc. As I would be left in charge, I watched this as I needed to know what was going to happen (didn't want to see some 16 year old kids assaulted, or get fines for not controlling some 40 year old adult, and in cases, parent).
Our corporate office told us last week that we are not to enforce covid mandates on customers because we don't want our employees assaulted. Something must have happened because they didn't tell us this previously.
JaneV2.0
12-13-21, 12:13pm
Our corporate office told us last week that we are not to enforce covid mandates on customers because we don't want our employees assaulted. Something must have happened because they didn't tell us this previously.
And so the scofflaws win. Some solution.
The problem with allowing businesses to allow behavior that’s risky to others is that in most cases it’s not just customers who are risking their lives by being there. Most businesses also have employees. Do they just have to suck it up and risk their lives for a paycheck or are we going to start paying unemployment to anyone that quits because they don’t want to risk their lives working in an unsafe environment just to pay the rent and feed their families?
Do they just have to suck it up and risk their lives for a paycheck or are we going to start paying unemployment to anyone that quits because they don’t want to risk their lives working in an unsafe environment just to pay the rent and feed their families?Would that include police, fire, ems, healthcare, military, road workers, small business owners trying to protect their livelihood from rioters or smash & grab artists, linemen, people who work outside in inclement weather, etc., or would it just be for people intimidated by proximity to someone without a mask or lighting a cigar in a well ventilated indoor space?
Teacher Terry
12-13-21, 2:04pm
If the employees are vaccinated I wouldn’t worry about it.
Actually cops are more likely to die of covid than being shot.
And I question if you’ve ever been in a bar back when smoking was still allowed in them when you use the phrase ‘well ventilated space’. I’ve been in plenty of bars in my lifetime and the only ones I would describe as ‘well ventilated’ have been basically wide open to the outside. But who knows, maybe they have better hvac engineers where you live.
And I question if you’ve ever been in a bar back when smoking was still allowed in them when you use the phrase ‘well ventilated space’.
Sure I have, many times. Believe it or not, I've even flown on airlines when they had smoking sections and worked in high rise buildings with ash trays in the elevators.
I'm not sure how we survived it! :0!
My experience in bars when they allowed smoking was usually that when I got home I wanted to take off my clothes and get in the shower because everything reeked of cigarette smoke.
iris lilies
12-13-21, 3:00pm
The gentleman’s smoking bar and whiskey parlor in Hermann doesnt allow cigarette smoking. I find that interesting. Something about their filtration system only handles cigar smoke or some such thing, and I suppose that’s the owner’s go to answer.
ApatheticNoMore
12-13-21, 3:12pm
Truthfully people working with the public did not sign up for the risk. But with vaccines that risk may be minimal. But what if it's a severely immunocompromised person for whom vaccines aren't working that has to work with the public and accept a lot of risk? Yea that's a world of hurt but is even with masks and everyone takes off the mask in something like a restaurant anyway. In a better world such a person could just get disability because they really have 100% genuine reasons they CAN'T work their job, at least not now, and maybe they could consider retraining for a less public facing work. But unfortunately such a safety net is not so readily available, though I think with medical conditions anyone like that should try for disability.
I guess my view on vaccine or mask mandates depends in large part on who’s doing the mandating. I think masks and vaccines are a good and necessary thing, but that doesn’t mean I like officials imposing what they have no authority to impose. Biden’s extension of the eviction moratorium in the full knowledge that it was illegal was a particularly egregious example. It smooths the way for the next usurpation of power.
Truthfully people working with the public did not sign up for the risk. But with vaccines that risk may be minimal. But what if it's a severely immunocompromised person for whom vaccines aren't working that has to work with the public and accept a lot of risk? Yea that's a world of hurt but is even with masks and everyone takes off the mask in something like a restaurant anyway. In a better world such a person could just get disability because they really have 100% genuine reasons they CAN'T work their job, at least not now, and maybe they could consider retraining for a less public facing work. But unfortunately such a safety net is not so readily available, though I think with medical conditions anyone like that should try for disability.
Someone that weak could also be done in by the flu. Many people die of it every year. So either we all wear masks forever for the weakest link out there or they wear higher quality masks or face shields or something else to protect themselves like before covid came along.
iris lilies
12-13-21, 6:59pm
I guess my view on vaccine or mask mandates depends in large part on who’s doing the mandating. I think masks and vaccines are a good and necessary thing, but that doesn’t mean I like officials imposing what they have no authority to impose. Biden’s extension of the eviction moratorium in the full knowledge that it was illegal was a particularly egregious example. It smooths the way for the next usurpation of power.
That’s the story, right? that Trump’s administration imposed the eviction moratorium but it hadn’t been tested i court (‘tho they could have just asked me or any man on the street because it was clearly illegal) but in Trump’s Biden’s time the court ruling was made.
Do I have this right?
to me, this is the most egregious thing that happened during Covid. The mask stuff is a pain in the ass but it’s also not a federal mandate. It’s a federal recommendation from a federal agency. State and local rulers can do as they like with it.
I’m just horrified by the thought of the feds pretty much taking over control of any rental property to say “ Now we’re going to manage your rental property, you as landlord have no rights,“
Why people are not more horrified by this is beyond me.
I guess my view on vaccine or mask mandates depends in large part on who’s doing the mandating. I think masks and vaccines are a good and necessary thing, but that doesn’t mean I like officials imposing what they have no authority to impose. Biden’s extension of the eviction moratorium in the full knowledge that it was illegal was a particularly egregious example. It smooths the way for the next usurpation of power.
I think that bridge was crossed, and the bridge burned, with Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U.S. 111 (1942).
That’s the story, right? that Trump’s administration imposed the eviction moratorium but it hadn’t been tested i court (‘tho they could have just asked me or any man on the street because it was clearly illegal) but around, the court ruling was made...
I don't know if legally the eviction moratorium and mask mandates fall under the same umbrella. I was no fan of the eviciton moratoriums but I'm in favor of mask mandates in some cases, whether it's from the feds or local authorities. I see the Supreme Court upheld some of the New York state mask mandates just recently.
If we want to do something to stop covid, ivermectin and not masks is the way to go. But due to American exceptionalism we can't admit that things that work elsewhere are any good, especially if they would cut into pharma profits.
If we want to do something to stop covid, ivermectin and not masks is the way to go. But due to American exceptionalism we can't admit that things that work elsewhere are any good, especially if they would cut into pharma profits.
Foolishness.
Don’t take Ivermectin for Covid folks. And don’t listen to halfwits who advise it.
https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19
Don't listen to the FDA, which has let 800,000 Americans die when cheap over the counter medications could have saved them, medications used in humans around the world safely for many years.
The Wall Street Journal asked in this article, "Why is the FDA Attacking a Safe, Effective Drug?"
https://www.wsj.com/articles/fda-ivermectin-covid-19-coronavirus-masks-anti-science-11627482393
But the medications, whose patents were expired, were disparaged because only with no supposed effective medication available could emergency use authorization be given to new patented medications benefiting the pharmaceutical cartel.
And if you want to hear from an establishment figure how badly the US has bungled its covid response read Scott Gottlieb's new book.
And if you want to hear from an establishment figure how badly the US has bungled its covid response read Scott Gottlieb's new book.
I read that book. Odd that you rail against public health measures when the book spends so much time detailing the decline of public health's importance in people's minds, followed by their utter lack of power that was seriously exacerbated during the trump administration. Rather than feeling frustrated about mask mandates and other public safety measures that were implemented I came away disappointed at the mealymouthed CYA attitude of CDC folks who didn't want to be involved with actually trying to deal with the pandemic in real time but instead just wanted to be pathetic record keepers of the death and illness, and all the public health folks at the state and local level who were afraid to do anything beyond what the CDC recommended. Though I must admit that I understand their concern considering how even trying to implement those timid recommendations often resulted in them risking their jobs at the hands of covid denialist governors, and having death threats lobbed at them and their families by whiny bitches and muh freedom thugs who just wanted to pretend that the pandemic wasn't real except for old farts who were completely dispensable.
The most telling part of the whole book was the guy from Poland who commented that our public health response from this was comparable to what he would have expected from Poland when he lived there during the soviet days. Incompetent and almost completely ineffective. And much worse than what he would expect there now.
Teacher Terry
12-14-21, 1:36am
I L, I wonder how many landlords suffered irreparable financial problems from the moratorium. I would guess plenty. I think they didn’t have to pay their mortgages either but many unanswered questions such as did interest still accrue and were mortgages literally paused and if so then financial institutions took the losses.
Teacher Terry
12-14-21, 1:38am
JP, my DIL is from Poland and they are definitely not models for effective government in any way.
New Zealand, which largely avoided restrictions, is a great model.
Africa has also done very well despite minimal restrictions. Look at how mild their omicron cases have been, as just one example. Of course in Africa many take hydrochloroaquine regularly for malaria, in some areas people are dosed with ivermectin for parasites, the population is younger on average, and they do not have an obesity epidemic. All four of these factors are inconvenient truths to the US medical industrial pharma processed food complex that makes money off illnesses.
New Zealand, which largely avoided restrictions, is a great model.
.
Except for one great big huge restriction for a month at the super duper very beginning of it all.
Can you imagine the howls of ‘BUT MUH FREEDUM’ if everyone in the US had been told to stay home for a month at the very very beginning of the pandemic? Sure, we’d probably have half a million or more less dead people today but it would NEVER have happened. Culturally we’re way too selfish to do something like all stay home for a month so that all of us would benefit.
Except for one great big huge restriction for a month at the super duper very beginning of it all.
Can you imagine the howls of ‘BUT MUH FREEDUM’ if everyone in the US had been told to stay home for a month at the very very beginning of the pandemic? Sure, we’d probably have half a million or more less dead people today but it would NEVER have happened. Culturally we’re way too selfish to do something like all stay home for a month so that all of us would benefit.
There was support at the beginning. People were scared. I never saw so much handwashing in my life. You couldn't find hand sanitizer or masks. People started sewing their own. But 2022 will be the third year of restrictions and people's patience is running thin. And I have yet to hear a single public health official talk about things like losing weight even as scientists report covid is stored in fat cells and affects adjoining organs. Instead it's continue eating your SAD (standard American diet) and wait for newly patented medicines to save you.
Meanwhile in Israel they are trying ivermectin with good results:
https://m.jpost.com/health-science/israeli-scientist-says-covid-19-could-be-treated-for-under-1day-675612
Ivermectin is bullshit. Cherry picking dishonest and/or deeply flawed Ivermectin studies is bullshit.
A brief moments honest investigation shows this
Anyone hawking Ivermectin outside controlled studies is an idiot, or dishonest, or evil.
I think that bridge was crossed, and the bridge burned, with Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U.S. 111 (1942).
“We can regulate interstate commerce; and everything is interstate commerce”.
“This is an infrastructure bill; and everything is infrastructure”.
“Other than that, we’ll leave you alone”.
frugal-one
12-14-21, 8:35am
Sure I have, many times. Believe it or not, I've even flown on airlines when they had smoking sections and worked in high rise buildings with ash trays in the elevators.
[B]
I'm not sure how we survived it! :0!
[/
Many didn’t. That is why laws were changed!
ToomuchStuff
12-14-21, 10:38am
I L, I wonder how many landlords suffered irreparable financial problems from the moratorium. I would guess plenty. I think they didn’t have to pay their mortgages either but many unanswered questions such as did interest still accrue and were mortgages literally paused and if so then financial institutions took the losses.
Interest, fee's, late payment penalties, etc.
Effectively, once the ban on foreclosures/evictions were lifted, all that was due that day, to prevent any of that.
A friend sold a chunk of his rentals (duplexes, multiple streets worth), that were long paid for (and pretty much all out of date on remodeling/new appliances, etc) in part because he was looking at the costs of updating and what would happen if this goes on another year. So far he had two that did the not pay rent thing, and when evictions could happen, they did, as they "didn't have the money" (spent their rent money on fun stuff, thinking all would be forgiven). He had a third that was unemployed for a bit, but when they started working, they were trying to catch up, so he worked with them.
The thing I heard landlords complain about is, why if they don't have to pay me, do I still have to pay my property taxes, to the ones that stopped them from paying me.
At a nursing home in France residents treated with ivermectin with stunning results:
https://c19ivermectin.com/bernigaud.html
"69 residents of a French care home, median age 90, were treated with ivermectin for a scabies outbreak. 3,062 residents in 45 nearby comparable homes were used as controls. 7 of 69 treated patients had probable or certain COVID-19, with no serious cases and no deaths. In comparable care homes in the same district, matched by age and socio-economic level, there was 22.6% COVID-19 and 5% death.
risk of death, 99.4% lower, RR 0.006, p = 0.08, treatment 0 of 69 (0.0%), control 150 of 3,062 (4.9%), relative risk is not 0 because of continuity correction due to zero events (with reciprocal of the contrasting arm).
risk of case, 55.1% lower, RR 0.45, p = 0.01, treatment 7 of 69 (10.1%), control 692 of 3,062 (22.6%)."
They were treated for a scabies outbreak but it ended up saving their lives from covid-19.
The foolishness will not end…
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/science-is-flawed-covid-19-ivermectin-and-beyond#Beyond-ivermectin
iris lilies
12-14-21, 12:20pm
Interest, fee's, late payment penalties, etc.
Effectively, once the ban on foreclosures/evictions were lifted, all that was due that day, to prevent any of that.
A friend sold a chunk of his rentals (duplexes, multiple streets worth), that were long paid for (and pretty much all out of date on remodeling/new appliances, etc) in part because he was looking at the costs of updating and what would happen if this goes on another year. So far he had two that did the not pay rent thing, and when evictions could happen, they did, as they "didn't have the money" (spent their rent money on fun stuff, thinking all would be forgiven). He had a third that was unemployed for a bit, but when they started working, they were trying to catch up, so he worked with them.
The thing I heard landlords complain about is, why if they don't have to pay me, do I still have to pay my property taxes, to the ones that stopped them from paying me.
What’s happening in my locale, and it’s widespread enough that our alderman talked to our neighborhood about it, is that tenants who can qualify for getting rent money from the feds refused to sign the paperwork.
So, landlords seem to be doubly screwed.
What were the details on how the eviction moratorium worked?
I was just lucky that all,of the rental real estate I had in my portfolio left my hands just about a month befoe the pandemic began, so I didn’t really pay much attention to the matter.
But if my tenants had been able to not pay me rent the past year or two, I still would have had tremendous expenses for insurance, property taxes, utilities, maintenance, cleaning, landscaping, and so on. And if any of the properties had been mortgaged, mortgage payments. Were property owners compensated for any of this, or just expected to suck it up?
iris lilies
12-14-21, 12:40pm
The foolishness will not end…
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/science-is-flawed-covid-19-ivermectin-and-beyond#Beyond-ivermectin
that’s a good summary for the average Joe like me and puts some of this research in perspective because there is a crap ton of research being done by seemingly legitimate institutions on for instance, ivermectin. If the scientists can’t police themselves and their work who the hell is going to? I have no power to do that.
Please understand this is exactly why skepticism is well deserved of people shouting “ the science says…!!!” at us.
My tiny beef with this article is I hate double negatives, so when the author starts a sentence with “it is not unlikely that… “ instead of saying more directly “it is likely that…”
I get the impression that author is trying to make himself sound more erudite.
iris lilies
12-14-21, 12:48pm
What were the details on how the eviction moratorium worked?
I was just lucky that all,of the rental real estate I had in my portfolio left my hands just about a month befoe the pandemic began, so I didn’t really pay much attention to the matter.
But if my tenants had been able to not pay me rent the past year or two, I still would have had tremendous expenses for insurance, property taxes, utilities, maintenance, cleaning, landscaping, and so on. And if any of the properties had been mortgaged, mortgage payments. Were property owners compensated for any of this, or just expected to suck it up?
my only direct knowledge is from my friend who owns a rental unit who, when her tenant lost her job, said that this program from the feds allowed her to delay her mortgage payment. I got the impression it was a delay and that it was added onto the back of the mortgage.
I don’t know if lending institutions got billions of dollars for this program but likely they did because everyone got something in this pandemic pay out.
as an aside my same landlord friend had major property damage last week when the FBI kicked in the front door of another rental property she owns around the corner from me. They were tons of law-enforcement people in the middle of the night who broke in the door, removed the tenant and her child, to get out the tenant’s boyfriend who is apparently quite a badnick.
I don’t know who pays for damage of property in that case but my friend has easily $5000 worth of repair as necessary for that porch, railings, and door.
The foolishness will not end…
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/science-is-flawed-covid-19-ivermectin-and-beyond#Beyond-ivermectin
Ivermectin is so off my radar that it's not worthy of any consideration, although the article pretty much supports that anyway.
I listened to a podcast by a Dr. Campbell, who seems to be a British expert and there were some hints of zinc or vitamin D as helping relieve symptoms. Harvard health is one of my go to's for basic medical information. They did leave a little wiggle room for it maybe helping, but for most people it sounded doubtful or harmful.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/do-vitamin-d-zinc-and-other-supplements-help-prevent-covid-19-or-hasten-healing-2021040522310
ToomuchStuff
12-14-21, 2:13pm
What were the details on how the eviction moratorium worked?
I was just lucky that all,of the rental real estate I had in my portfolio left my hands just about a month befoe the pandemic began, so I didn’t really pay much attention to the matter.
But if my tenants had been able to not pay me rent the past year or two, I still would have had tremendous expenses for insurance, property taxes, utilities, maintenance, cleaning, landscaping, and so on. And if any of the properties had been mortgaged, mortgage payments. Were property owners compensated for any of this, or just expected to suck it up?
Suck it up.
I can't say I have heard much about the program IL mentioned. I expect it is similar to what they expected with the not paying the bills, that the tenants figure they should get a hand out and it be forgiven, and are asked to sign something saying they will pay it back (maybe proportionately) via taxes.
Ivermectin is so off my radar that it's not worthy of any consideration, although the article pretty much supports that anyway.
I listened to a podcast by a Dr. Campbell, who seems to be a British expert and there were some hints of zinc or vitamin D as helping relieve symptoms. Harvard health is one of my go to's for basic medical information. They did leave a little wiggle room for it maybe helping, but for most people it sounded doubtful or harmful.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/do-vitamin-d-zinc-and-other-supplements-help-prevent-covid-19-or-hasten-healing-2021040522310
Zinc is in remedies for the common cold which is also a coronavirus. I am going to look for some when I go for groceries this week.
There is a lot of bad science and most of it is because the pharmaceutical cartel focuses on profits, that a lot of articles are written by people with a financial incentive in the outcome, and that there is a revolving door between the regulators and the regulated.
Add in self-styled experts who worked in unrelated fields (like tech), are worried about their early retirement being jeopardized if pharmaceutical stocks tank, and who like to hobnob with and name drop about their association with big important establishment figures and who bash anyone who dares to criticize the status quo and you get a real mess.
Here is an article from the NIH website on pharma corruption:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24088149/
It is authored by The American Society of Law, Medicine & Ethics, Inc. and the synopsis reads:
"Over the past 35 years, patients have suffered from a largely hidden epidemic of side effects from drugs that usually have few offsetting benefits. The pharmaceutical industry has corrupted the practice of medicine through its influence over what drugs are developed, how they are tested, and how medical knowledge is created. Since 1906, heavy commercial influence has compromised congressional legislation to protect the public from unsafe drugs. The authorization of user fees in 1992 has turned drug companies into the FDA's prime clients, deepening the regulatory and cultural capture of the agency. Industry has demanded shorter average review times and, with less time to thoroughly review evidence, increased hospitalizations and deaths have resulted. Meeting the needs of the drug companies has taken priority over meeting the needs of patients. Unless this corruption of regulatory intent is reversed, the situation will continue to deteriorate. We offer practical suggestions including: separating the funding of clinical trials from their conduct, analysis, and publication; independent FDA leadership; full public funding for all FDA activities; measures to discourage R&D on drugs with few, if any, new clinical benefits; and the creation of a National Drug Safety Board."
Here is an article from the NIH website on pharma corruption:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24088149/
It is authored by The American Society of Law, Medicine & Ethics, Inc. and the synopsis reads:
"Over the past 35 years, patients have suffered from a largely hidden epidemic of side effects from drugs that usually have few offsetting benefits. The pharmaceutical industry has corrupted the practice of medicine through its influence over what drugs are developed, how they are tested, and how medical knowledge is created. Since 1906, heavy commercial influence has compromised congressional legislation to protect the public from unsafe drugs. The authorization of user fees in 1992 has turned drug companies into the FDA's prime clients, deepening the regulatory and cultural capture of the agency. Industry has demanded shorter average review times and, with less time to thoroughly review evidence, increased hospitalizations and deaths have resulted. Meeting the needs of the drug companies has taken priority over meeting the needs of patients. Unless this corruption of regulatory intent is reversed, the situation will continue to deteriorate. We offer practical suggestions including: separating the funding of clinical trials from their conduct, analysis, and publication; independent FDA leadership; full public funding for all FDA activities; measures to discourage R&D on drugs with few, if any, new clinical benefits; and the creation of a National Drug Safety Board."
Dr. Fauci and his top deputies receive up to $150,000 a year each in licensing fees from meds they shepherd through the approval process. And this despite the fact Fauci is the highest paid employee in the Federal government and doesn't need the money.
iris lilies
12-14-21, 2:33pm
Suck it up.
I can't say I have heard much about the program IL mentioned. I expect it is similar to what they expected with the not paying the bills, that the tenants figure they should get a hand out and it be forgiven, and are asked to sign something saying they will pay it back (maybe proportionately) via taxes.
No, the alderman said pushback from tenants is about having their names
“in the system “or somesuch thing. There’s no requirement to pay it back. They ain’t signing no steenkin’ gubmnt paperwork.
The foolishness will not end…
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/science-is-flawed-covid-19-ivermectin-and-beyond#Beyond-ivermectin
Someone else whining on the whiney whine thread. You fit right in!
Dr. Fauci and his top deputies receive up to $150,000 a year each in licensing fees from meds they shepherd through the approval process. And this despite the fact Fauci is the highest paid employee in the Federal government and doesn't need the money.
And the point is? Are we blaming Fauci for receiving a high income. I understand he has donated some or all of the so called licensing fess to charity. I suspect his salary is low compared to similarly qualified people in private industry.
And the point is? Are we blaming Fauci for receiving a high income. I understand he has donated some or all of the so called licensing fess to charity. I suspect his salary is low compared to similarly qualified people in private industry.
I am saying he has a vested interest in bringing new, patentable products to market vs using existing tried and true medications.
The Gates Foundation donates to charity yet Gates also invests in and profits from pharmaceuticals. The two are not mutually exclusive.
ApatheticNoMore
12-14-21, 7:38pm
Fauci is proxy mostly (or perhaps collateral damage) in some weird cultural war thing. Why, I don't know. :doh:
I am saying he has a vested interest in bringing new, patentable products to market vs using existing tried and true medications.
but this is either trite or conspiratorial. Trite: 1) companies will make minor modifications to keep pharmaceuticals under patent. 2) Pharma companies have economic interest (no, you don't say).
Conspiratorial: the entire of scientific research is just to hide existing cures to benefit pharmaceutical companies. I mean mostly the evidence, such as there was, for invermectin seems to have gotten weaker by the day.
I am saying he has a vested interest in bringing new, patentable products to market vs using existing tried and true medications.
The Gates Foundation donates to charity yet Gates also invests in and profits from pharmaceuticals. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Certainly a fault of the system. Of course he also received the presidential medal of freedom and a large award from Israel for championing science over power.
Does this sounds like someone who is swayed by the money? It sounds like he was obliged to the award by law.
"And Fauci tried to give back the royalty money he got from the interleukin-2 treatment and to disclose the payments on his public ethics forms. Both times he was rebuffed by his own agency, which declared he could do neither under the law.
So his only option was to donate all the money he has received since 1997 to charity. "I'm going to give every penny of it to charity ... no matter what the yearly amount is," Fauci said in an interview."
Fauci is proxy mostly (or perhaps collateral damage) in some weird cultural war thing. Why, I don't know. :doh:
but this is either trite or conspiratorial. Trite: 1) companies will make minor modifications to keep pharmaceuticals under patent. 2) Pharma companies have economic interest (no, you don't say).
Conspiratorial: the entire of scientific research is just to hide existing cures to benefit pharmaceutical companies. I mean mostly the evidence, such as there was, for invermectin seems to have gotten weaker by the day.
It is not surprising that private companies do this, but it's wrong that our government colludes with them. It's like fox guarding the henhouse. You can't trust anything the government/oligarchs say.
It is not surprising that private companies do this, but it's wrong that our government colludes with them. It's like fox guarding the henhouse. You can't trust anything the government/oligarchs say.
I'm confused. First it was the integrity of Fauci, and now it's all government/
I'm confused. First it was the integrity of Fauci, and now it's all government/
It's those government agencies that collude with the pharmaceutical companies. I should not have said all government. The DPW does a good job plowing the streets.
It's those government agencies that collude with the pharmaceutical companies. I should not have said all government. The DPW does a good job plowing the streets.
Fair enough. Yet I am still lacking evidence that Fauci colluded with pharmaceuticals or twisted facts for personal gain.
My distrust of politicians is greater than any general distrust of government scientists, espcially when they display high integrity by refusing monetary award from the system but are required by law to accept them. I have friends who have worked for the feds as scientists and they generally can get far higher income from private employers. Not all are perfect, but many view public service as a positive attribute.
Without them we'd probably still have smoking sections on airlines, among other more noxious expressions of freedom.
Fair enough. Yet I am still lacking evidence that Fauci colluded with pharmaceuticals or twisted facts for personal gain.
My distrust of politicians is greater than any general distrust of government scientists, espcially when they display high integrity by refusing monetary award from the system but are required by law to accept them. I have friends who have worked for the feds as scientists and they generally can get far higher income from private employers. Not all are perfect, but many view public service as a positive attribute.
You don't think he has the clout to lobby to get the law changed?
The whole focus of his career has been to churn out patentable drugs rather than investigate root causes of diseases. The drug focus led to the opioid epidemic under his watch among other things. He has not focused on things like mental health, diet, exercise, obesity prevention, etc.
He sends research abroad - dangerous experiments on Third World children and cruel tests on beagles - because he knew American whistleblowers would come forward a la PETA and this would not be tolerated on US soil. He is a reprehensible person.
The whole focus of his career has been to churn out patentable drugs rather than investigate root causes of diseases. The drug focus led to the opioid epidemic under his watch among other things. He has not focused on things like mental health, diet, exercise, obesity prevention, etc.
He sends research abroad - dangerous experiments on Third World children and cruel tests on beagles - because he knew American whistleblowers would come forward a la PETA and this would not be tolerated on US soil. He is a reprehensible person.
Is producing patentable drugs to prevent disease wrong? As in HIV, swine flu or ebola. That's what he does. Were preventions for polio, or small pox, or measles, or shingles worng.
Our entire health system has failed in other preventave measures, as well as the public for not taking personal responsibility for their health, but I'm not putting that on Fauci.
Is producing patentable drugs to prevent disease wrong? As in HIV, swine flu or ebola. That's what he does.
Our entire health system has failed in other preventave measures, as well as the public for not taking personal responsibility for their health, but I'm not putting that on Fauci.
You tell me if having people take more and more prescription drugs is a good thing. America spends more on healthcare - and much more on drugs - than any other country but we fare far worse than other industrialized countries in health outcomes. Prescription related deaths - from side effects or from overdoses - are the fourth leading cause of death in the US.
So whose interest is being served - the public's or big pharma's?
You tell me if having people take more and more prescription drugs is a good thing. America spends more on healthcare - and much more on drugs - than any other country but we fare far worse than other industrialized countries. Prescription related deaths - from side effects or from overdoses - are the fourth leading cause of death in the US.
What does that have to do with Fauci? You orginally implied Fauci was motivated by money over public health.
We are also one of the most obese countries in the world, but seems to be a personal freedom. People would rather take a pill than change bad habits.
That's it for me for now,.
What does that have to do with Fauci?
We are also one of the most obese countries in the world, but seems to be a pesoanal freedom.
Fauci runs the show. You mentioned AIDS. Are you aware of his record sabotaging safe and effective treatments that weren't patented while pushing a deadly chemotherapy drug he knew was worthless against AIDS?
ApatheticNoMore
12-14-21, 10:21pm
What safe and effective treatments against AIDS aren't patented? It's treated with antiretrovirals. I mean I won't claim to know how long those would be under patent, but surely they were initially.
I used to wonder how conspiracy theorists became such. I assume that they all start, like me, believing in the general goodness and honesty of the vast majority of people, so I've always wondered what sends them on the path of assuming nefarious purposes of everyone. After reading this board since the pandemic started I now have at least an inkling. It all starts with a little piece of cloth that they find annoying. And before you know it every medical intervention is viewed as just another way for someone to line their pockets.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
I used to wonder how conspiracy theorists became such. I assume that they all start, like me, believing in the general goodness and honesty of the vast majority of people, so I've always wondered what sends them on the path of assuming nefarious purposes of everyone. After reading this board since the pandemic started I now have at least an inkling. It all starts with a little piece of cloth that they find annoying. And before you know it every medical intervention is viewed as just another way for someone to line their pockets.
It did start with the tyranny of endless regulations. If your vaccine works we should be returning to normal. But instead as noted by the CEO of the Umass Medical System on the news last night, although Massachusetts has the highest vaccination rate of any state we are in the same place we were last year.
So I have dug deeper and found:
Our government agencies are not independent and objective but financially entangled with the industries they regulate. There is a revolving door between regulator and regulated.
Unlike, say, Ralph Nader's journals, medical publishing is highly dependent on advertising revenue from big pharma. Authors of articles are often industry captives.
Prescribing doctors receive incentives to push drugs. I saw this with a doctor of my own in the past and switched providers.
There have been scandals hiding dangerous drugs that profit companies and no safeguards have been put in place to prevent this from happening again.
Pharma has lied about covid. We now know the vaccines aren't vaccines, they don't prevent people from catching and transmitting the disease, and their efficacy is short lived. They are instead a commercial golden egg that keeps laying boosters every 2 to 6 months.
I will not be getting another shot.
ETA the medical schools and universities and hospital systems are also dependent on largesse from pharma and government programs controlled by pharma.
What safe and effective treatments against AIDS aren't patented? It's treated with antiretrovirals. I mean I won't claim to know how long those would be under patent, but surely they were initially.
I will let you know after I read that chapter.
Prescribing doctors receive incentives to push drugs. I saw this with a doctor of my own in the past and switched providers....
I can't imagine trusting any doctor the corrupt system you described. Tom Cruise has a religion to suit you beliefs.
You could add to the list that climate change has been concocted by global scientists soley to gain from research grants.
The birds are watcing.
Birds are real. I have found an injured bird in my yard and touched it and tried to help it. Vaccines that don't make a dent in the pandemic - not so much.
Something about this virus has brought a lot of neurotic tendencies out from under various rocks. For and against more comprehensive government control over our lives, from (mostly) anti-government conspiracy theorists to a kind of enthusiastic medical fascism. From anti-vaccine paranoia (not just for affluent people anymore) to a treatment of “the science” as more of a religion than a toolkit (Die, you red state heathen).
Do you think maybe part of the insanity out there is due to Americans not wanting to talk rationally about death, for which this virus is a sort of proxy? Or perhaps our oft-noted inability to weigh risks realistically? Or maybe an extension of a simplistic political tribalism?
iris lilies
12-15-21, 10:22am
Something about this virus has brought a lot of neurotic tendencies out from under various rocks. For and against more comprehensive government control over our lives, from (mostly) anti-government conspiracy theorists to a kind of enthusiastic medical fascism. From anti-vaccine paranoia (not just for affluent people anymore) to a treatment of “the science” as more of a religion than a toolkit (Die, you red state heathen).
Do you think maybe part of the insanity out there is due to Americans not wanting to talk rationally about death, for which this virus is a sort of proxy? Or perhaps our oft-noted inability to weigh risks realistically? Or maybe an extension of a simplistic political tribalism?
it is difficult to weigh risk realistically. It is difficult to gauge exactly what my own fear “should” be. It’s strange to go from my very safe middle-class lifestyle to being in the most vulnerable group for this virus: age, weight, metabolics caught up to me with this scary thing. I’d rather my demise be more “natural” than this damn China virus taking me out. But we don't get to choose these things.
It is a tyranny of the most risk averse imposing their will on everyone else via government fiat instead of people managing their risks. For instance, libraries in my area offer curbside pickup. Some even offer homebound delivery. But no, instead of the nervous nellies using these options, although fully vaccinated I must wear a mask in the library where I don't crowd against others and where plexiglass separates me from the clerk when I check out books.
But the Board of Health has not forbidden the holiday gatherings that caused cases to spike after Thanksgiving, the real cause of the rise in numbers that the current media frenzy is feasting on. It's not the libraries!!
happystuff
12-15-21, 10:32am
I think a lot of factors probably play into it, but I agree that it seems to have brought a lot of neurotic tendencies out from under various rocks. I'll stay out of the political aspects, but I find the individual/personal aspects interesting. I think it has raised a new level of fear in some people and many can't put a finger on exactly what that fear is, let alone how to deal with it. I see many "good" people acting selfishly and uncompassionately, possibly in ways they never thought they would and now they have to justify these thoughts and behaviors in some way - hence, neurotic. Heck, I don't know. I just find it interesting when the faith and beliefs people say they have, end up being totally opposite of what they actually say and do.
You have posed some interesting questions.
Selfishness is in the eye of the beholder. For example, you are selfish for not wearing a mask when you are over 6 feet away from me but I am not selfish for wearing any random cloth face covering while I am in close quarters for hours with others at the airport and on a plane, even pre-vaccine I can get together with those outside my household, etc. It's all a matter of perspective, and the judginess of the elites is pretty hypocritical.
It's not an easy question or problem. I think the widening political divisions have created a mutual distrust of authority, which unfortunately has spilled over into legtimate science. From what I've seen in the increases in gun violence I have wondered if we just aren't made for the social isolations and that has caused distress. And I also think there are some comparisons to the five stages of grief, including denial, anger and bargaining.
It's not an easy question or problem. I think the widening political divisions have created a mutual distrust of authority, which unfortunately has spilled over into legtimate science. From what I've seen in the increases in gun violence I have wondered if we just aren't made for the social isolations and that has caused distress. And I also think there are some comparisons to the five stages of grief, including denial, anger and bargaining.
I think you’re right. A lot of political/social fissures seem to have been pried open a bit wider. Questions of privilege related to who could and couldn’t work from home. Parents with kids schooled at a distance got greater exposure to what some districts were teaching, and didn’t like what they saw. Call it CRT, call it race essentialism, or whatever else you like. Enforced work closures and (temporarily) increased federal benefits and loan/rent deferrals led many to try a non-working lifestyle. As you point out, attitudes toward authority (especially federal authority) hardened at the pre-existing extremes from resistance to “tyranny” to a view of government as a sort of benevolent parent. Rising prices are making some more critical of massive government spending and some convincing themselves that spending more can actually “crush” inflation.
All this stuff was going on pre-Covid, but has been exacerbated by the virus.
In pathogenic priming, getting the shot causes autoimmune problems that can kill the recipient. This is why we have seen some elderly people die shortly after getting the vaccine.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7142689/
ApatheticNoMore
12-15-21, 3:22pm
Yea I'm not going to label fear of a novel pandemic (novel at the time - a this point if it's a novel it's War and Peace) neurotic. Just nope. Risk is a hard one but this virus actually did carry real and new and novel risks (the worst pandemic that could be, no we could have been hit by something worse, but that all still stands).
There was a level of economic fear at the beginning that was not neurotic either, the economy actually was heading for a severe recession, but stimulus and so on, did make it both endurable for most during pandemic closures, and allow a quick rebound.
rosarugosa
12-15-21, 6:36pm
Yea I'm not going to label fear of a novel pandemic (novel at the time - a this point if it's a novel it's War and Peace) neurotic. Just nope. Risk is a hard one but this virus actually did carry real and new and novel risks (the worst pandemic that could be, no we could have been hit by something worse, but that all still stands).
There was a level of economic fear at the beginning that was not neurotic either, the economy actually was heading for a severe recession, but stimulus and so on, did make it both endurable for most during pandemic closures, and allow a quick rebound.
Yeah, the novelty has worn off.
In pathogenic priming, getting the shot causes autoimmune problems that can kill the recipient. This is why we have seen some elderly people die shortly after getting the vaccine.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7142689/
I noticed the disclosed conflict of interest at the end of the article.
Conflict of interest statement Dr. Lyons-Weiler has, in the past, served as expert witness in the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.
And a verify with experts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3kt5bZT_HQ
https://www.tlnt.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2019/04/cherry-picking-700x467.jpg
I noticed the disclosed conflict of interest at the end of the article.
Conflict of interest statement Dr. Lyons-Weiler has, in the past, served as expert witness in the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.
And a verify with experts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3kt5bZT_HQ
Interesting video Rogar. Thanks for posting. I was glad to see they acknowledge pathogenic priming with another name. I dealt with something like this while pregnant. Because I have O negative blood and the father had positive blood this would not cause a problem in my initial pregnancy, but would prime my body to cause problems in a subsequent pregnancy so I was given a shot of Rhogam. Similarly a person may do fine with their first bee sting but if stung a second time have an anaphylactic reaction.
I will give the folks in the video the benefit of the doubt that no pathogenic priming has been officially reported. After all people who report problems with vaccines or question them are subject to cancel culture. But that doesn't mean this has never happened.
There are suspicious post-vaccine deaths, the most well known being Hank Aaron's.
We had someone here nearly die after their booster shot. Driving home, a deer jumped out into the road, and in a foolish effort to avoid it, the person drove their car off the road into a tree. Had to be sent to the regional trauma center on the chopper.
Nearly a post-vaccine death, that was.
in a foolish effort to avoid it
Brain fog is a covid symptom.
One guy I know who had covid said it was the only symptom he had.
Brain fog is a covid symptom.
One guy I know who had covid said it was the only symptom he had.
This person did not have covid, but they *had* just received a booster shot 5 minutes before. Probably a vaccine reaction, the car crash....
This person did not have covid, but they *had* just received a booster shot 5 minutes before. Probably a vaccine reaction, the car crash....
How do you know the booster did not induce covid?
And if you want us to take your opinions seriously you might want to change your username to something less slangy.
How do you know the booster did not induce covid?
And if you want us to take your opinions seriously you might want to change your username to something less slangy.
If it induced Covid, it managed to do so in 5 minutes,
As to my username, it has been that name here for over 20 years, it was my identifier when I worked at Bell Labs, and it is how I am known in a part of the industry. It is not my fault people who are younger than my socks have hijacked it. But thanks…
How do you know the booster did not induce covid?
If you think the booster may have induced covid you are farther down the conspiracy nut job path than I had realized. The virus is not in the vaccine. Any of them. Although I suppose there’s a dumbass YouTube video out there somewhere that explains how this possibility is just as rational as a virgin birth.
They have meds to help with paranoia. They might serve you well.
If you think the booster may have induced covid you are farther down the conspiracy nut job path than I had realized.
Let's be clear here, for posterity.
The hypothesis was that the car crash victim :
a) had covid brain
b) from covid they contracted
c) from a booster shot
d) received 5 minutes before the crash.
Meanwhile, here on Planet Earth...
Meanwhile, here on Planet Earth...
Here on planet earth I had chocolate ice cream. I don’t normally do such a decadent thing but SO if off at his bowling league, it’s pouring rain, and I just decided to live a little.
boss mare
12-16-21, 1:57am
Brain fog is a covid symptom.
One guy I know who had covid said it was the only symptom he had.
Sweet Cheeks, I have Meniere's Disease. Brain Fog is one of the many symptoms. I have horses. I show horses. I transport horses. I have a Ford F450 dually (with the 7.3 liter diesel) and a 45 foot LQ GN 3 H slant. Never a of problem. But I just had an incident with my truck and my 2 H BP slant. Two "kids" and their crotch rockets were lane splitting and caused me to run into a ditch and bent both axles and trashed the fender. Thank God I didn't have horses in there. I was helping a friend's son move to a new apartment. I offered my help and my trailer to offset expenses. since I work in health care with a high exposure rate with Covid (dental/aerosols)
Does that mean my accident was caused " Covid Brain Fog"?
Fun Horse Fact Of The Day: John Denver's 1975 album Windsong cover pictured him riding a black and white registered Appaloosa stallion by the name of Left Hand Man. That stallion sired 26 foals. from 1974 to 1987. two of them were what were called N/C (no appaloosa characteristics such as coat color, parti colored areas, striped hooves or sclera). 24 of them had full Appaloosa features.
Here on planet earth I had chocolate ice cream. I don’t normally do such a decadent thing but SO if off at his bowling league, it’s pouring rain, and I just decided to live a little.
My daughter just arrived home today after being trapped in the UK by covid for ~2 years. We put some amazing blueberries and strawberries I had frozen earlier in the year into the blender with some yogurt, and, wow!
We're stuck here for a couple days quarantining before she visits with her grandparents, so, what the heck! Berries for all!
Teacher Terry
12-16-21, 2:02am
Bae, so glad your daughter is home! 2 years is a long time.
If you think the booster may have induced covid you are farther down the conspiracy nut job path...
You know, the number might be different depending on the age group or other demographics, but say something like 20% of adults are either anti vaxxers, or to avoid the term, have otherwise refused the vaccine. I'm not sure any or all or any less nutty than the rest.
Fun Horse Fact Of The Day: John Denver's 1975 album Windsong cover pictured him riding a black and white registered Appaloosa stallion by the name of Left Hand Man. That stallion sired 26 foals. from 1974 to 1987. two of them were what were called N/C (no appaloosa characteristics such as coat color, parti colored areas, striped hooves or sclera). 24 of them had full Appaloosa features.
While I was eating my ice cream youtube suggested I watch Glen Campbell's Rhinestone Cowboy video. I didn't even realize that songs from my childhood had videos but it did. And he looked awesome riding around on that beautiful horse. It made me so sad knowing that the end of his life included dementia. But I suppose I'm glad that his cognitive decline was beyond his capacity to avoid. Unlike some people.
Fun Horse Fact Of The Day: John Denver's 1975 album Windsong
I wonder if you are familiar with the wonderful Canadian artist Corb Lund? You might like his work, perhaps starting with his album "Horse Soldier! Horse Soldier!", or his song "Talkin' Veterinarian Blues" from his album "Losin' Lately Gambler".
Sweet Cheeks, I have Meniere's Disease. Brain Fog is one of the many symptoms. Never a of problem. since I work in health care with a high exposure rate with Covid (dental/aerosols)
Ayuh. Your grammar shows it.
My daughter just arrived home today after being trapped in the UK by covid for ~2 years. We put some amazing blueberries and strawberries I had frozen earlier in the year into the blender with some yogurt, and, wow!
We're stuck here for a couple days quarantining before she visits with her grandparents, so, what the heck! Berries for all!
Virtue signalling.
If you think the booster may have induced covid you are farther down the conspiracy nut job path than I had realized. The virus is not in the vaccine. Any of them. Although I suppose there’s a dumbass YouTube video out there somewhere that explains how this possibility is just as rational as a virgin birth.
They have meds to help with paranoia. They might serve you well.
You should put your snark aside and educate yourself.
The body has what is known as an anamnestic response, where if a person previously had covid or a vaccine or booster, they have an enhanced reaction to the antigen. For most people this works great at improving immunity, but for those in whom it triggers an autoimmune response it causes problems due to pathogenic priming. And this is further compounded by the fact that it can be hard for some to clear the virus since we now know it stores itself in fat cells. This fat storage news only came out in the past couple weeks. You've got to work harder to keep up JP. The science is moving fast as we learn more about this novel virus.
What safe and effective treatments against AIDS aren't patented? It's treated with antiretrovirals. I mean I won't claim to know how long those would be under patent, but surely they were initially.
Fauci pushed everyone to toxic AZT and allowed price gouging for it while ignoring AL 721, ribaravin, alpha interferon, DHPG, Peptide D, Foscarnet, Bactrim, Septra and aerosol pentamidine. Robert Gallo advocated for AL 721.
As reported in And the Band Played On Fauci stoked fears of AIDS transmission via casual contact to increase his budget.
Larry Kramer called Dr. Fauci "public enemy number one".
happystuff
12-16-21, 9:55am
Fun Horse Fact Of The Day: John Denver's 1975 album Windsong cover pictured him riding a black and white registered Appaloosa stallion by the name of Left Hand Man. That stallion sired 26 foals. from 1974 to 1987. two of them were what were called N/C (no appaloosa characteristics such as coat color, parti colored areas, striped hooves or sclera). 24 of them had full Appaloosa features.
Love John Denver! Thanks for this horse fact!
Virtue signalling.
Because people who like berries are so smug and superior?
Because people who like berries are so smug and superior?
Because the whole ice cream sundae thing is so overplayed, timeworn and pathetic.
Because the whole ice cream sundae thing is so overplayed, timeworn and pathetic.
Did I see your reference to snarky earlier? Or is that just a one way street.
happystuff
12-16-21, 10:20am
bae, so nice that your daughter made it home for the holidays! Enjoy your time together.
Look how catchy omicron is. And you think a cloth mask is going to keep you safe?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10280173/Double-vaxxed-traveller-catches-Omicron-Covid-inside-Hong-Kong-quarantine-hotel.html
Look how catchy omicron is. And you think a cloth mask is going to keep you safe?
The general scientific concensus is that double vaxx, plus the booster is the best protection. The mask issue is beating a dead horse.
Of course, anything in the Daily Mail should be fact checked.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-mail/
The general scientific concensus is that double vaxx, plus the booster is the best protection. The mask issue is beating a dead horse.
Of course, anything in the Daily Mail should be fact checked.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-mail/
I was trying to avoid a firewall. Here is the same story in:
Bloomberg - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-05/omicron-s-spread-across-hotel-hall-highlights-transmission-worry
Boston Globe - https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/12/08/nation/two-travelers-quarantined-hong-kong-hotel-researchers-suspect-omicron-variant-was-transmitted-across-hallway/
Washington Post - https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/11/24/hong-kong-valve-face-mask-covid/
If you'd rather pay to read it, go ahead.
I was trying to avoid a firewall. Here is the same story in:
If you'd rather pay to read it, go ahead.
Bloodberg doesn't require a paywall, at least for me. Good to see you are fact checking questionable and unreliable sources.
Here is a reputable source - a professor of public health at Harvard University saying that masks are not the answer:
https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus/2021/12/15/harvard-joseph-allen-covid-vaccine-mask-mandate/
Here is a reputable source - a professor of public health at Harvard University saying that masks are not the answer:
https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus/2021/12/15/harvard-joseph-allen-covid-vaccine-mask-mandate/
No one has said masks are THE answer. That's just something you keep making up so you can share your irrational hatred of them. As has been explained to you many times masks are just one part of the swiss cheese approach to pandemic safety.
Here is a reputable source - a professor of public health at Harvard University saying that masks are not the answer:
https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus/2021/12/15/harvard-joseph-allen-covid-vaccine-mask-mandate/
I agree with JP1. Masks are just one element in a risk mitigation strategy.
You’re making the perfect the enemy of the good.
Here is a reputable source - a professor of public health at Harvard University saying that masks are not the answer:
https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus/2021/12/15/harvard-joseph-allen-covid-vaccine-mask-mandate/
From the article.
“Let’s be clear: masks work,” he said. “I’ve been a big proponent of universal masking for a long time. I think the vaccines changed that.”
Allen says he would advise officials in Massachusetts to follow in the footsteps of New York’s recently implemented policy (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/10/nyregion/ny-mask-mandate-covid.html) requiring masks only in indoor public places that do not require proof of vaccination for entry.
I suspect omicron may change things since the two shot regime is less effective.
Ayuh. Your grammar shows it.
That's just so very... special... of you.
Because the whole ice cream sundae thing is so overplayed, timeworn and pathetic.
I believe I mentioned it was yogurt, but we all know you have challenges with honestly representing and interpreting facts.
From the article.
“Let’s be clear: masks work,” he said. “I’ve been a big proponent of universal masking for a long time. I think the vaccines changed that.”
Allen says he would advise officials in Massachusetts to follow in the footsteps of New York’s recently implemented policy (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/10/nyregion/ny-mask-mandate-covid.html) requiring masks only in indoor public places that do not require proof of vaccination for entry.
I suspect omicron may change things since the two shot regime is less effective.
Rhode Island is only requiring masks for vaccinated people in places where there are 250 people or more. Since I never go to mass gatherings like that I would be fine with that.
Rhode Island is only requiring masks for vaccinated people in places where there are 250 people or more. Since I never go to mass gatherings like that I would be fine with that.
Actually the article you recommended as good practice endorses the NY policy, which I understand requires this and implies RI falls short of good practice. It also states without reservation that msks work.
...means that unless their employees check for proof of vaccination, offices, shops, restaurants and other businesses must demand that patrons be masked. Those that do not comply could face civil and criminal penalties, including fines of up to $1,000 per violation, and local health departments are responsible for enforcement
Are you reading the same article?
It says, "I don't think the path out of this pandemic — or even through this surge — is masking the vaccinated."
"a growing number of local disease experts are calling on Gov. Charlie Baker to reimpose a statewide indoor mask mandate.
But not all of them.
Joseph Allen, a professor at Harvard’s T. H. Chan School of Public Health and an expert on disease exposure, says state and local officials should be taking more aggressive action to require the vaccine, rather than requiring universal masking, even with COVID-19 rates at their highest levels since last winter."
“I’ve been a big proponent of universal masking for a long time. I think the vaccines changed that.”
"unvaccinated individuals should continue masking"
"the Baker administration’s current guidelines take a similar individual-based approach, recommending indoor masking for the unvaccinated and other high-risk groups, like the elderly)."
“If you’re vaccinated and boosted, there’s little additional benefit to masking,” Allen said. “I don’t think that’s going to be the policy lever that’s most important at this point.”
"For that reason, he thinks the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s guidelines for universal indoor masking are “really deeply flawed.”
"“They’re solely tracking cases and percent positivity,” Allen said, noting that those numbers don’t distinguish between a vaccinated 20-year-old and an unvaccinated 80-year-old, who have extraordinarily different risk levels."
The point is that low risk vaccinated people like me don't need to wear masks. There is no benefit.
ApatheticNoMore
12-16-21, 1:53pm
The whole cloth mask thing is such a strawman as well, the only place I wore cloth masks before vaccines is outdoors and distanced (and time has not proved that incorrect, as the odds of spreading it outdoors and 6 feet or more apart are almost non-existent). Maybe I wore one when I had to transport my mom to dental surgery before the vax, with all the windows open and kitty corner across from me in the car.
I lightened up on wearing masks a lot after my second vax (now boosted of course) though I follow the law in stores and so on. But sure I watch out for how well the vax is holding up, where information actually does change a lot and it's hard to keep up, rather than the conspiracy theories being pushed which have kind of come and gone and mostly already been debunked.
yppej, Didn't you say earlier that you wouldn't be getting any more Covid shots because they cause death? I can't remember the details.
I'd probably be ok going maskless if I knew everyone had both shots and booster in an uncrowded place with decent ventilation. Until Omicron arrives anyway.
yppej, Didn't you say earlier that you wouldn't be getting any more Covid shots because they cause death? I can't remember the details.
I'd probably be ok going maskless if I knew everyone had both shots and booster in an uncrowded place with decent ventilation. Until Omicron arrives anyway.
I won't be getting any more covid shots because there is no benefit to me. I am treated the same as an unvaccinated person. It is unlikely I would die from a covid shot, because I didn't have a bad reaction from my previous shots, but you never know about long term side effects. But I do believe some people like Hank Aaron have died from covid vaccines.
ETA Another factor in my decision is that the more I read about Fauci's corruption and the way vaccines are developed and then forced on people the less likely I am to wish to participate in that system.
yppej, Didn't you say earlier that you wouldn't be getting any more Covid shots because they cause death? I can't remember the details.
It's hard to keep up with the crazy.
The point is that low risk vaccinated people like me don't need to care about others. There is no benefit to me.
It's hard to keep up with the crazy.
There you go again, distorting posts to make it look like people say things they don't. Shameless!
There you go again, distorting posts to make it look like people say things they don't. Shameless!
Fair use. Look it up. Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, Inc.
ApatheticNoMore
12-16-21, 2:11pm
Yes everyone who has blocked Yppej will now have an inaccurate impression of what she is saying (eh that's a joke, anyone who has blocked hardly cares, the rest of us are just feeding troll like overfed birds at the park, when the sign says "do not feed").
Yes everyone who has blocked Yppej will now have an inaccurate impression of what she is saying (eh that's a joke, anyone who has blocked hardly cares, the rest of us are just feeding troll like overfed birds at the park, when the sign says "do not feed").
I'm not a troll, and I would point out that people are not just responding to my posts but coming to my Whiney Whine threat to whine about me. My thread is now on page 17. It is a success!
Young children at little to no risk of serious covid issues are now coming down with myocarditis due to covid-19 vaccines:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/eight-heart-inflammation-cases-among-young-kids-who-got-covid-19-shot-u-s-cdc/ar-AART53a?ocid=winp1taskbar
Source: CDC
I'm not a troll, and I would point out that people are not just responding to my posts but coming to my Whiney Whine threat to whine about me. My thread is now on page 17. It is a success!
I don't know that 17 pages of trying to keep you and others healthy and on the path of veracity and rectitude with little or no progress would qualify as success. I hope you have learned something other than Fauci and masks are from the devil and vaccines kill.
How do you measure success since you've not convinced anyone of your theories and have offended some by name calling. IMHO you've wasted your own precious time with lack of any positive result.
I can learn a few things by doing my own fact checking. At least it's on your own OP so people who are not entertained by the topic can steer clear if they want.
I'm out for now. Mask or vax.
iris lilies
12-16-21, 5:56pm
I'm not a troll, and I would point out that people are not just responding to my posts but coming to my Whiney Whine threat to whine about me. My thread is now on page 17. It is a success!
Whining on the internet is always a success. As is snarking. Both can be found here.
I'm not a troll,
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dw68OOdX4AASnGK.jpg
I don't know that 17 pages of trying to keep you and others healthy and on the path of veracity and rectitude with little or no progress would qualify as success. I hope you have learned something other than Fauci and masks are from the devil and vaccines kill.
How do you measure success since you've not convinced anyone of your theories and have offended some by name calling. IMHO you've wasted your own precious time with lack of any positive result.
I can learn a few things by doing my own fact checking. At least it's on your own OP so people who are not entertained by the topic can steer clear if they want.
I'm out for now. Mask or vax.
This is a good sounding board for my arguments to the Board of Health. I can get a sense of some of what they will say and prepare to rebut it.
And mask or vax makes some sense. Vax and mask forever does not.
ApatheticNoMore
12-16-21, 7:19pm
Wow yeppej you are a total jerk.
I censored it okay.
But yes come to think of it, you have been trying out dumber and dumber arguments all the time on us.
Wow yeppej you are a total jerk.
I censored it okay.
But yes come to think of it, you have been trying out dumber and dumber arguments all the time on us.
Are you going to keep feeding me your thoughts?
ApatheticNoMore
12-16-21, 7:43pm
My thought oh well I'm again censoring it.
But fine you want people afraid that sharing there thoughts here is feeding your manipulative nonsense. Alrighty then. They say there is not much can be done about personality disorders.
This is a good sounding board for my arguments to the Board of Health. I can get a sense of some of what they will say and prepare to rebut it.
It's so precious that you think they will give your special views any special consideration.
And extra precious that you believe you will get to "rebut" the Board of Health.
This isn't really how it works.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/De5FNy2WsAgxceo.jpg
My thought oh well I'm again censoring it.
But fine you want people afraid that sharing there thoughts here is feeding your manipulative nonsense. Alrighty then. They say there is not much can be done about personality disorders.
I think there are common social media sites that routinely censor the promotion or amplification of Covid misinformation. Perhpas it's not a threat since we know that he/she is coming from a different time and space. But you never know who all the guests are.
I think there are common social media sites that routinely censor the promotion or amplification of Covid misinformation.
I understand Twitter is now censoring any discussion of fully vaccinated persons passing along covid to others. The science says it's possible but social media apparently has higher social cachet.
I understand Twitter is now censoring any discussion of fully vaccinated persons passing along covid to others. The science says otherwise but social media apparently has more cachet.
That is an odd thing to censor. Symptomatic breakthrough infections seem to be able to pass along covid, so I guess Twitter would have to censor the CDC too.
Bother.
I understand Twitter is now censoring any discussion of fully vaccinated persons passing along covid to others. The science says it's possible but social media apparently has higher social cachet.
This is what seems like a recent twitter policy on censure. Don't know of specific incidents, just saying. This is the only social media site I use and any outcome is not a big deal for me. It is what it is, as they say.
https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/covid19-vaccine
A shot quip.
False claims that suggest immunizations and vaccines are used to intentionally cause harm to or control populations, including statements about vaccines that invoke a deliberate conspiracy;
False claims which have been widely debunked about the adverse impacts or effects of receiving vaccinations; or
False claims that COVID-19 is not real or not serious, and therefore that vaccinations are unnecessary.
iris lilies
12-16-21, 9:33pm
I understand Twitter is now censoring any discussion of fully vaccinated persons passing along covid to others. The science says it's possible but social media apparently has higher social cachet.
Then I suppose any discussion of fully vaccinated people actually dying from the disease would get my account closed. Fortunately I do not have a Twitter account that I use although I think I probably have one.
iris lilies
12-16-21, 9:45pm
Now that The Science no longer predicts herd immunity, will Twitter retroactively censor those old tweets that confidently proclaimed we were mere months away?
censorship is so hard! Memory holes are hard to maintain!
“He who controls the past controls the future.”
—George Orwell
This is what seems like a recent twitter policy on censure. Don't know of specific incidents, just saying. This is the only social media site I use and any outcome is not a big deal for me. It is what it is, as they say.
https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/covid19-vaccine
A shot quip.
False claims that suggest immunizations and vaccines are used to intentionally cause harm to or control populations, including statements about vaccines that invoke a deliberate conspiracy;
False claims which have been widely debunked about the adverse impacts or effects of receiving vaccinations; or
False claims that COVID-19 is not real or not serious, and therefore that vaccinations are unnecessary.
I read about the Twitter policy yesterday but didn't take a closer look until a few minutes ago (after posting above) and found something interesting.
The policy as of today documented at COVID-19 misleading information policy (twitter.com) (https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/medical-misinformation-policy) says:
False or misleading claims that people who have received the vaccine can spread or shed the vaccine (or symptoms, or immunity) to unvaccinated people.
But according to the Internet Wayback Machine COVID-19 misleading information policy (archive.org) (http://web.archive.org/web/20211214100632/https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/medical-misinformation-policy), as of 12/14/21 it stated:
False or misleading claims that people who have received the vaccine can spread or shed the virus (or symptoms, or immunity) to unvaccinated people.
It appears to me that someone did a little awkward cleanup after this was reported in the media.
Memory holes are hard to maintain! Yes, they certainly are.
I think if you eat the magic dirt, you can cleanse yourself of any nasty vaccination cooties that get transferred to you by coworkers.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/boo-or-how-magic-dirt-became-a-mlm-miracle-cure-scam-for-covid-19/
It should be easy enough for anyone afraid of the vaccinated to recognize those of us who have been vaxxed. Aren't we all supposedly as magnetic as Magneto?
And the point is? Are we blaming Fauci for receiving a high income. I understand he has donated some or all of the so called licensing fess to charity. I suspect his salary is low compared to similarly qualified people in private industry.
It turns out Fauci made big bucks from IL-2 and Proleukin which he co-owned the patents on. Only after a Congressional investigation revealed this did the rules change limiting him to $150,000 and only in the wake of the scandal did he start donating his royalties to charity. Fauci got away with a lot for decades because while he was at NIH his wife was Deputy Director of the NIH Department of Bioethics that should have been investigating his misconduct including pushing through unsafe drugs.
It turns out Fauci made big bucks from IL-2 and Proleukin which he co-owned the patents on. Only after a Congressional investigation revealed this did the rules change limiting him to $150,000 and only in the wake of the scandal did he start donating his royalties to charity. Fauci got away with a lot for decades because while he was at NIH his wife was Deputy Director of the NIH Department of Bioethics that should have been investigating his misconduct including pushing through unsafe drugs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Fauci
JaneV2.0
12-21-21, 12:28pm
Is there a rational reason De. Fauci shouldn't make "big bucks" from a patent he co-owned? As laid out in the Wikipedia article, he's had a long, illustrious career, and surely should not be expected to work pro bono.
ToomuchStuff
12-21-21, 4:56pm
Is there a rational reason De. Fauci shouldn't make "big bucks" from a patent he co-owned? As laid out in the Wikipedia article, he's had a long, illustrious career, and surely should not be expected to work pro bono.
Isn't it the other way? Shouldn't he make the big bucks, so the government can tax him as superrich?
Is there a rational reason De. Fauci shouldn't make "big bucks" from a patent he co-owned? As laid out in the Wikipedia article, he's had a long, illustrious career, and surely should not be expected to work pro bono.
He shouldn't be approving the release of drugs he profits from. It is a conflict of interest. It's like if someone working for the SEC were profiting from and failing to control insider trading. If you don't see the issue here I think you are so used to corruption in government there is no hope for you.
ApatheticNoMore
12-21-21, 6:28pm
But doesn't the FDA approve the release of drugs? That's not Fauci's role. He's never headed the FDA, I could be wrong but I don't think he's ever even worked for it. So is Fauci really approving the release of drugs he profits from? I mean things can be a bit unseemly seeming, sure, but I don't this accusation as such holds.
But doesn't the FDA approve the release of drugs? That's not Fauci's role. He's never headed the FDA, I could be wrong but I don't think he's ever even worked for it. So is Fauci really approving the release of drugs he profits from? I mean things can be a bit unseemly seeming, sure, but I don't this accusation as such holds.
He works for NIAID which is supposed to objectively evaluate drugs coming to market.
People have told me if you have a beard a mask does no good. Do you think the next government mandate will be for everyone to shave their beards? Maybe only small beards like goatees will be allowed?
iris lilies
12-23-21, 12:36pm
He works for NIAID which is supposed to objectively evaluate drugs coming to market.
As an aside, and not debating any of the points above, a certain bioethicist named Dr. Grady does research and gives lectures on the ethics of Coronavirus in our healthcare system. She is actually HEAD of the bio ethics department at National Institute of Health and as such wields Important Views on Fauci and all things Covid19. He has done no wrong,
Guess who Dr. Grady is? She is Anthony Fauci’s wife! You can’t make this shit up.
Drain the Swamp.
iris lilies
12-23-21, 12:45pm
And both Fauchis are 70+ years old. They are old. They need to resign.
I understand that Dr. Anthony Fauci may be perfectly competent and a strong public servant, but his time has ended. He’s a lightning rod for too much stuff. Both of the Faucis are old and need to give it up.
Let me also relate a local husband and wife situation very close to me: Our public library system where I worked was gearing ip for a tax campaign where we had to convince the taxpayers to vote YES on an increase on their taxes. The Library’s public relations advisor told the Director of our Library that he should not campaign along side his wife who also was a highly placed Library administrator.
It looks bad for two people in the same household to be feeding at the public trough.
People have told me if you have a beard a mask does no good. Do you think the next government mandate will be for everyone to shave their beards? Maybe only small beards like goatees will be allowed?
People have told me that for the past 10 years I have passed the quarterly fit test with my beard. For N95 masks and for my SCBA facepiece. Maybe the testing machine lies?
People have told me that for the past 10 years I have passed the quarterly fit test with my beard. For N95 masks and for my SCBA facepiece. Maybe the testing machine lies?
I think most people don't know how to put a mask over a beard and it's not effective in real life. Your specialized setting is not typical. Just today I saw a beard pushing a mask far away from someone's face which prompted me to post this. The mask was jutting out almost horizontal from the person's mouth.
Is Fauci secretly planning to use the technology described in the article below to vaccinate people against their will? Some say he is.
https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/30699/20210416/covid-19-vaccine-use-mosquitoes-vaccinate-people-along-others-currently.htm
The mosquito will be genetically modified to carry a covid vaccine and bite people giving them the vaccine even if they do not consent to it.
Previously mosquitoes were modified to try to fight Zika, so I wouldn't put this past the government.
I think most people don't know how to put a mask over a beard and it's not effective in real life. Your specialized setting is not typical.
Yes, a specialized super low risk setting involving hazmat, interior firefighting, or Ebola, where we are trying to protect the wearer….
Totally different thing, glad you are an expert.
Just today I saw a beard pushing a mask far away from someone's face which prompted me to post this. The mask was jutting out almost horizontal from the person's mouth.
Can’t fix stupid…
Is Fauci secretly planning to use the technology described in the article below to vaccinate people against their will? Some say he is.
The mosquito will be genetically modified to carry a covid vaccine and bite people giving them the vaccine even if they do not consent to it.
Previously mosquitoes were modified to try to fight Zika, so I wouldn't put this past the government.
You are really jumping the shark these days.
The mosquito will be genetically modified to carry a covid vaccine and bite people giving them the vaccine even if they do not consent to it.
Previously mosquitoes were modified to try to fight Zika, so I wouldn't put this past the government.
I wonder how Bill Gates tracking devices embedded in the vaccine will even fit into a mosquito.
You are really jumping the shark these days.
Did you read up on this, or just reflexively reject the idea because I wrote about it?
Did you read up on this, or just reflexively reject the idea because I wrote about it?
Everyone knows they are using chemtrails or birds. Try to keep up.
Did you read up on this, or just reflexively reject the idea because I wrote about it?
If you actually referred to something important and factual the boy who cried wolf theory would probably be my guiding principal.
Zika was spread by mosquitoes, so eradicating them would be an effective preventative measure.
Dr. Fauci as mad scientist (with his evil assistant, Bill Gates) just makes me laugh.
Zika was spread by mosquitoes, so eradicating them would be an effective preventative measure.
Dr. Fauci as mad scientist (with his evil assistant, Bill Gates) just makes me laugh.
The "Zika outbreak" originating in Brazil followed use of DTP vaccines that cause side effects like encephalopathy. The DTP is not allowed in First World countries which use DTaP now due to the dangerous side effects of DTP, but pharma continues to dump unsafe drugs in the Third World.
Zika is one of many fake pandemics that the government has tried to panic people about. The swine flu is another example, and is written about in this article from Australia, where people are not censored the same way they are in the US if they question medical orthodoxy:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-06-11/34926
In the article Europeans including the British and Australians discuss the exaggeration of swine flu to sell pharmaceuticals.
Remember the bird flu pandemic that killed millions? No, because it didn't kill millions.
Read all about it:
https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/threat-avian-flu-pandemic-over-hyped/2006-04
ApatheticNoMore
12-23-21, 2:32pm
Well swine flu was H1N1 - the one behind the 1918 flu, with all the massive death toll for younger people and so on (there have only been 3 H1N1 outbreaks) ... so panic ... yea maybe. Some were predicting the next great pandemic would be an influenza strain, of course it actually was a coronavirus, but it could have been.
Fortunately, I'm usually impervious to the blandishments of Pharma...
I am going to be a lot more impervious to the blandishments of pharma going forward. It is really a disgusting industry. Among other things they lied to women and girls in Kenya, telling them they were getting tetanus shots but instead chemically sterilizing them. The Catholic Church caught on because a tetanus shot should be once every 10 years not every couple months. The Catholics put a stop to this. BTW that was not a scheme of Fauci's but of the Gates Foundation, a major holder of pharmaceutical stocks.
I am going to be a lot more impervious to the blandishments of pharma going forward. It is really a disgusting industry. Among other things they lied to women and girls in Kenya, telling them they were getting tetanus shots but instead chemically sterilizing them. The Catholic Church caught on because a tetanus shot should be once every 10 years not every couple months. The Catholics put a stop to this. BTW that was not a scheme of Fauci's but of the Gates Foundation, a major holder of pharmaceutical stocks.
Wow, what another pile of steaming (and recycled) conspiracy theory crap.
Shame on you.
https://africacheck.org/sites/default/files/gates_hoax1-Cropped.png
Wow, what another pile of steaming (and recycled) conspiracy theory crap.
Shame on you.
https://africacheck.org/sites/default/files/gates_hoax1-Cropped.png
They weren't abortion drugs. They were sterilization drugs. The women were not pregnant with fetuses to be aborted. The point was to prevent them from getting pregnant.
Here is a scientific article on this:
https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation.aspx?paperid=81838
Note Kenyan doctors are among the authors. I think they know more about this than a self-styled expert from Washington state.
Here is a scientific article on this:
https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation.aspx?paperid=81838
Note Kenyan doctors are among the authors. I think they know more about this than a self-styled expert from Washington state.
I know their article is horse shit. And I know it isn't "scientific". And I know when one sees Shaw and Tomljenovic's name on a paper, that tells one....to look carefully... And I know you, Yppej, consistently cherry pick "studies" that reinforce your delusions and take the out of context and don't look at any of the follow-on work. I know you don't know squat about the nonsense that comes out of your mouth half the time, and often aren't aware of it. And I know you rely on Brandolini's law.
https://retractionwatch.com/2018/01/30/second-time-researchers-retract-republish-vaccine-paper/
As far as your comment on my professional credentials, well, I got well paid for years to debunk bogus work like this.
So again, shame on you.
I know their article is horse shit. And I know it isn't "scientific". And I know when one sees Shaw and Tomljenovic's name on a paper, that tells one....to look carefully... And I know you, Yppej, consistently cherry pick "studies" that reinforce your delusions and take the out of context and don't look at any of the follow-on work. I know you don't know squat about the nonsense that comes out of your mouth half the time, and often aren't aware of it. And I know you rely on Brandolini's law.
https://retractionwatch.com/2018/01/30/second-time-researchers-retract-republish-vaccine-paper/
As far as your comment on my professional credentials, well, I got well paid for years to debunk bogus work like this.
So again, shame on you.
Interesting that my browser tells me your link is to a dangerous site. Nice try infecting my computer, but it has features to protect me from your spam. I will not click on any of your links again Boris Aleksander Edvard or whoever you are troll BAE.
Interesting that my browser tells me your link is to a dangerous site. Nice try infecting my computer, but it has features to protect me from your spam. I will not click on any of your links again Boris Aleksander Edvard or whoever you are troll BAE.
Uh huh….
I suppose RetractionWatch would be a dangerous site to people who, well, have problems with basic reasoning and a loose grasp on reality. But it is a legit site. I'm presuming you either have particularly inept "security" software, or that you are being "cute" and trying to keep people from finding out how inept your lies are.
You could fact check me on the RetractionWatch group, but then you'd have some problems with cognitive dissonance and might go off on another wacky trail.
Interesting that my browser tells me your link is to a dangerous site. Nice try infecting my computer, but it has features to protect me from your spam. I will not click on any of your links again Boris Aleksander Edvard or whoever you are troll BAE.
Also, just to pick some nits, if that *had* been an attempt to compromise your system, the type of attack wouldn't properly be called "spam", but, again, your words are basically ill-informed gibberish.
I clicked Take Me Back to Safety. Troll defeated!
ApatheticNoMore
12-23-21, 11:08pm
If antiviruses work so well why are they still making us wear masks?
I am going to be a lot more impervious to the blandishments of pharma going forward. It is really a disgusting industry. Among other things they lied to women and girls in Kenya, telling them they were getting tetanus shots but instead chemically sterilizing them. The Catholic Church caught on because a tetanus shot should be once every 10 years not every couple months. The Catholics put a stop to this. BTW that was not a scheme of Fauci's but of the Gates Foundation, a major holder of pharmaceutical stocks.
If what you’re saying about Bill Gates was true, James Bond would have stopped him by now.
boss mare
12-24-21, 1:24am
I am going to be a lot more impervious to the blandishments of pharma going forward. It is really a disgusting industry. Among other things they lied to women and girls in Kenya, telling them they were getting tetanus shots but instead chemically sterilizing them. The Catholic Church caught on because a tetanus shot should be once every 10 years not every couple months. The Catholics put a stop to this. BTW that was not a scheme of Fauci's but of the Gates Foundation, a major holder of pharmaceutical stocks.
One pill makes you larger
And one pill makes you small.....
rosarugosa
12-24-21, 6:24am
I clicked on the link and didn't get any dangerous site warning.
If what you’re saying about Bill Gates was true, James Bond would have stopped him by now.
Well in that instance the Catholic Church stopped him. The same Catholic Church whose pope is urging people to get vaccinated. The same Catholic Church that is urging all their students in parochial schools in my city to get vaccinated. Dismissing them as anti-vax crackpots is a low blow and false.
If antiviruses work so well why are they still making us wear masks?
Government has expanded greatly over the years. Once it takes power it is reluctant to give it up. The Founding Fathers would not recognize our country and the thousands upon thousands of regulations that control almost every aspect of our lives.
ETA There are 400 year old laws, completely irrelevant today, still on the books in my state. Some refer to pounds and other units of British currency because the US was not even a country yet. Legislators like to pass laws but rarely repeal them.
I filed a complaint with the state Board of Registration in Medicine against the physician on the Board of Health because there is supposed to be an exception in mask mandates for people like me who have trouble wearing one, but they didn't do anything to help.
Meanwhile my painful perioral rash first triggered by mask wearing last winter is back. It looks like it will be a lifelong problem surfacing every winter.
I filed a complaint with the state Board of Registration in Medicine against the physician on the Board of Health because ....
What a reprehensible thing for you to do. Clogging up the system with your wack-a-doodle whining. Causing people who have better things to do to waste their time, causing additional cost, stress and grief. This is why we can't have nice things.
It's amazing to me anyone will even work in the public health field these days.
Although this failed I have a few more other ideas to try before I possibly resort to a hunger strike.
iris lilies
12-24-21, 9:50pm
Although this failed I have a few more other ideas to try before I possibly resort to a hunger strike.
We have talk about your hunger strike idea before. Jeppy, no one cares if you eat or not. No one.
If you think you can get media attention….unlikely.
It's amazing to me anyone will even work in the public health field these days.
If they all quit it would be fine with me. We didn't have health bureaucrats when this country was founded and we can live without them now. We pay more for healthcare with worse outcomes than comparable countries. We have a pharma loving government looking to force us all to get shots and pop pills instead of dealing with things like obesity that put people at risk for covid and other diseases. We don't need this failed approach.
iris lilies
12-24-21, 11:47pm
I filed a complaint with the state Board of Registration in Medicine against the physician on the Board of Health because there is supposed to be an exception in mask mandates for people like me who have trouble wearing one, but they didn't do anything to help.
Meanwhile my painful perioral rash first triggered by mask wearing last winter is back. It looks like it will be a lifelong problem surfacing every winter.
I’ve lost track among all the whining, is it the county making a mask mandate that you’re fighting? Is it the city? I can’t keep up.
It seems logical to me that there would be a health exemption for masks.
Are you required to wear one at work and if so is that your workplace requirement for the local governments requirement?
I’ve lost track among all the whining, is it the county making a mask mandate that you’re fighting? Is it the city? I can’t keep up.
It seems logical to me that there would be a health exemption for masks.
Are you required to wear one at work and if so is that your workplace requirement for the local governments requirement?
City mandate in city buildings. The library is one of my great pleasures in life and they ruined it.
There is an exemption on paper but although I told them I felt dizzy, nauseous, had trouble breathing and almost passed out they told me they didn't care. When I go to Board of Health meetings I frequently grip the front of the mask and pull it away from my face a little to create a gap where air can get in. Their clerk taking minutes often pulls her mask below her nose.
I have had to wear a mask at work in the past but only when away from my desk and usually I am at my desk. There are also no stairs at work but there are at the library which makes things harder, and we have a well functioning HVAC system. It is not in the 90's and humid in the summer.
iris lilies
12-25-21, 9:59am
City mandate in city buildings. The library is one of my great pleasures in life and they ruined it.
There is an exemption on paper but although I told them I felt dizzy, nauseous, had trouble breathing and almost passed out they told me they didn't care. When I go to Board of Health meetings I frequently grip the front of the mask and pull it away from my face a little to create a gap where air can get in. Their clerk taking minutes often pulls her mask below her nose.
I have had to wear a mask at work in the past but only when away from my desk and usually I am at my desk. There are also no stairs at work but there are at the library which makes things harder, and we have a well functioning HVAC system. It is not in the 90's and humid in the summer.
when you say “them” above, you mean Library personnel, right?
i would wear the mask going in, and then move it over or below my nose or mouth or whatever. In other words, make the effort to look as though you are wearing a mask.
Or, I would have a copy of the mask ordinance with me, highlight the relevant passage, and calmly tell library employees you are taking the exemption. Speak to the manager on duty about it, not front line staff.
It makes no sense to pummel the Board of
health official who did, apparently, write an exemption into the ordinance.
when you say “them” above, you mean Library personnel, right?
i would wear the mask going in, and then move it over or below my nose or mouth or whatever. In other words, make the effort to look as though you are wearing a mask.
Or, I would have a copy of the mask ordinance with me, highlight the relevant passage, and calmly tell library employees you are taking the exemption. Speak to the manager on duty about it, not front line staff.
It makes no sense to pummel the Board of
health official who did, apparently, write an exemption into the ordinance.
No, the library did not put in the policy, the Board of Health did. The Board of Health voted in a mask mandate but they are lazy and have the Health Director do a lot of their work for them. So he wrote up the mandate after the fact copying language from the state mandate with the exception, but the Board is refusing to honor the exception in their own order which they themselves did not write. The physician Board member said the only exception is if you have an oxygen tube in your nose. Nothing for asthmatics, people with PTSD from having their faces forcibly covered in the past (which I also have but don't want to go into detail in a public meeting), those with behavioral diagnoses (which the public schools do have an exception for), etc. They are very rigid. That is why I filed a complaint against him vs harass library staff.
iris lilies
12-25-21, 10:22am
No, the library did not put in the policy, the Board of Health did. The Board of Health voted in a mask mandate but they are lazy and have the Health Director do a lot of their work for them. So he wrote up the mandate after the fact copying language from the state mandate with the exception, but the Board is refusing to honor the exception in their own order which they themselves did not write. The physician Board member said the only exception is if you have an oxygen tube in your nose. Nothing for asthmatics, people with PTSD from having their faces forcibly covered in the past (which I also have but don't want to go into detail in a public meeting), those with behavioral diagnoses (which the public schools do have an exception for), etc. They are very rigid. That is why I filed a complaint against him vs harass library staff.
so…do I understand correctly: the ordinance AS WRITTEN mentions exemption for mask? WHAT EXACTLY does it say about exemption?
It doesn’t matter who actually wrote the ordinance, and it is normal for localities to use the state language. Remove that from your arguments, it is just noise and obscures any valid point you may have.
"Except where a person is unable to wear a mask or face covering due to a medical condition or the person is otherwise exempted by Department of Public Health guidance. A person who declines to wear a mask or cloth face covering because of a medical condition shall not be required to produce documentation verifying the condition".
iris lilies
12-25-21, 11:17am
"Except where a person is unable to wear a mask or face covering due to a medical condition or the person is otherwise exempted by Department of Public Health guidance. A person who declines to wear a mask or cloth face covering because of a medical condition shall not be required to produce documentation verifying the condition".
That is what I thought. Take this ordinance on paper, make an appointment with a manager of the library branch you wish to visit, and explain your position. Depending on how you approach it, and if you approach it like a normal calm person, I would believe that manager will grant you this exception while in their branch.
happystuff
12-25-21, 11:24am
That is what I thought. Take this ordinance on paper, make an appointment with a manager of the library branch you wish to visit, and explain your position. Depending on how you approach it, and if you approach it like a normal calm person, I would believe that manager will grant you this exception while in their branch.
I would think that the medical condition would need to be documented by a physician as a legitimate medical condition, not just an "I don't like masks" thing. With written certification from a medical doctor, the exemption should be honored.
I would think that the medical condition would need to be documented by a physician as a legitimate medical condition, not just an "I don't like masks" thing. With written certification from a medical doctor, the exemption should be honored.
The regulation clearly states no documentation is needed.
iris lilies
12-25-21, 12:06pm
The regulation clearly states no documentation is needed.
yes, I believe that.
happystuff
12-25-21, 2:18pm
yes, I believe that.
Ahhh... so the whiney "I don't like masks" people can claim an exemption and get a free pass here. Hope they at least appreciate it.
iris lilies
12-25-21, 2:26pm
Ahhh... so the whiney "I don't like masks" people can claim an exemption and get a free pass here. Hope they at least appreciate it.
It probably depends on how the issue is approached. There are plenty of videos on YouTube showing mask exempt people shouting and screaming and making pests of themselves. There are probably plenty of mask exempt people who go about their daily lives, calmly explaining to the store or wherever they are that they don’t need to wear a mask and show the ordinance, and go about their business.
Not everything needs to be a Federal case.
iris lilies
12-25-21, 2:56pm
Ahhh... so the whiney "I don't like masks" people can claim an exemption and get a free pass here. Hope they at least appreciate it.
Oh wait, by “ here” you mean this website?
Sure, I think mask exemptions are reasonable. I won’t set myself up as the Enforcer of it to determine who is and who is not worthy of exemption. I have worn N95 masks for periods and I understand they are problematic, And I’m glad I don’t have to wear them often because I just don’t go places often where I have to wear them, and I never have to wear them for longer than 45 minutes.
happystuff
12-25-21, 5:30pm
Oh wait, by “ here” you mean this website?
Sure, I think mask exemptions are reasonable. I won’t set myself up as the Enforcer of it to determine who and who is not worthy of exemption. I have worn N95 masks for periods and in situations where I understand they are problematic, And I’m glad I don’t have to wear them often because I just don’t go places often Where I have to wear them, and I never have to wear them for longer than 45 minutes.
Not "here" as in this website... "here" as in reference to the mentioned exemption.
boss mare
12-25-21, 6:47pm
Although this failed I have a few more other ideas to try before I possibly resort to a hunger strike.
And if you go chasing rabbits
And you know you are going to fall
Tell 'em a hookah smoking caterpillar
Has given you the call
White Rabbit- Grace Slick
It will be so cool being able to say ‘I know someone listed on this page! Yppej was fighting the good fight against a little piece of cloth!’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hunger_strikes?wprov=sfti1
A burkah is a piece of cloth. So is a flag.
ApatheticNoMore
12-26-21, 2:47pm
A burkah is a piece of cloth. So is a flag.
yea and we don't get our panties up in a bunch over these either. I mean do you imagine people take offense when they see a burkah. No. Do you imagine we have some instinctive dislike for Muslims or something? That's completely nuts. At the same time when I saw some Muslim schoolkids and all the girls in burkahs and the boys in tshirts and jeans and sneakers, it makes an impression too. But very few modern cultures are matriarchies, sad to say. Meanwhile masks are about disease spread, though yes I've mostly worn them to protect myself, because why wouldn't I want to, recognizing that of course it's imperfect, what isn't.
Masks are a largely ineffectual police of political theater and are oppressive, just like a burkah is oppressive to someone who does not wear it of her own free will.
I do not take offense when I see a mask. I'll do me and you do you. Live and let live. Live free or die. Give me liberty or give me death.
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