View Full Version : Government Coup
frugal-one
10-22-25, 5:22pm
The only Hitler wannabe I’ve ever talked about is trump AND my predictions are coming true, sadly! Also, I believe trump has always been the most disgusting and disparaging. The others are just dingleberries.
frugal-one
10-23-25, 9:04am
[QUOTE=frugal-one;449841]
See the conman career of Dr. Ian Robert’s, illegal alien, registered to vote in Pennsylvania.
There are plenty of unqualified people registered to vote although I will not claim it is enough to influence national elections.
We had a statehouse election illegally determined by mail-in ballots in my district. A court ordered a do-over election when the shenanigans were revealed. Election fraud is real.
edited to add: DH is also an election official, having done that for decades. He dropped during COVID but started up again after we moved. I agree that there are many checks and balances in the voting system but nothing is perfect there is no system that can’t be thwarted.
Noncitizen voting is extremely rare!
https://apnews.com/article/trump-voting-citizenship-proof-election-commission-32ea9adfa724dd9cdc68d9481033f015
littlebittybobby
10-24-25, 1:26am
okay----this just in----'cordin ta certain news sources, Bad Orange Man has demolished the White House, symbol of our Democratic Democracy. So anyway---The King of America is redeveloping the land once occupied by the icon of freedom and diversity into a Grand Palace for the Elite Rulers of this World. Maybe even put in a casino. But yeah----do you figure peasants and commoners such as littlebittymee will be invited to a Grand Fete for the Royalty? I seriously doubt it. Nope. It's only sposta cost half a Billion, but i'll bet ups and extras and cost overruns will make it far, far more than that. It'lll prolly cost nearly as much as LBJ's undeclared war in Southeast Asia awhile back. I'll bet. Yup.
littlebittybobby
10-24-25, 1:56am
okay---here's a photo of the demolished White House, home of our Democracy. But yeah---this is the West Wing, CA 1930's. Yup. Oops-my bad; FDRs 4-term administration under a dying leader did that. (see photo)6583
Bye, bye East Wing. My standards would say a replacement of stateliness and historical architecture with gross opulence. It would appear that Trump rushed in the demolition crew quickly before anyone could discuss.
On the subject of coups, I see the Chinese are purging generals. I wonder if that might lead to something interesting.
catherine
10-24-25, 11:44am
Bye, bye East Wing. My standards would say a replacement of stateliness and historical architecture with gross opulence. It would appear that Trump rushed in the demolition crew quickly before anyone could discuss.
According to Wikipedia "In 1784, Louis XVI briefly moved the royal family to the Château de Saint-Cloud ahead of more renovations to the Palace of Versailles, but construction could not begin because of financial difficulty and political crisis. In 1789, the French Revolution swept the royal family and government out of Versailles forever."
It seems opulance of the ruling class and revolution go hand in hand.
Has any talk or hope for revolution ever occurred during the many earlier additions or renovations of the White House? I'm not aware of any and can't think of a single valid reason for one this time either. Maybe I'm just being dense, and if so I'm sure someone will let me know.
catherine
10-24-25, 12:58pm
Has any talk or hope for revolution ever occurred during the many earlier additions or renovations of the White House? I'm not aware of any and can't think of a single valid reason for one this time either. Maybe I'm just being dense, and if so I'm sure someone will let me know.
Well, I think it's a matter of scale and, frankly, taste. In an attempt to mark his territory at the White House with the biggest piss possible, Trump has destroyed an entire wing representing just a fraction of what he's buiding in a unilateral way-- dwarfing the White House with a 90,000 square foot gaudy, grotesque and architecturally discordant display of what I see as a castle only fit for King Midas. IMHO.
(I'll hold out on the architecturally discordant comment because I'm not an expert, but I'm not hopeful it will be anything but.)
Jackie Kennedy is rolling in her grave.
littlebittybobby
10-24-25, 1:11pm
okay-----did you kids not see my photo of the demolished WEST WING o' the White House? That occured during the depth of the 1930's Depression, under the reign of King Franklin the Roosevelt, 4-term Monarch, who died in office, which ended his reign. Yup. The wing was rebuilt to accomodate an even more opulent "Oval Office", where his throne was located. See? Now, you can be doubly outraged and indignant. Thankk Mee.
catherine
10-24-25, 1:19pm
Roosevelt did not expand the footprint, he called in an architect and he intentionally built it complement the existing architecture of the White House.
"The fourth and final major reorganization was undertaken by Franklin D. Roosevelt. Dissatisfied with the size and layout of President Hoover's West Wing, he engaged New York architect Eric Gugler to redesign it in 1933. To create additional space without increasing the apparent size of the building, Gugler excavated a full basement, added a set of subterranean offices under the adjacent lawn,[13] and built an unobtrusive "penthouse" storey.[10] The directive to wring the most office space out of the existing building resulted in narrow corridors and generally small staff offices. Gugler's most notable change was the addition to the east side containing a new Cabinet Room, Secretary's Office, and Oval Office.[10] The location of the new Oval Office gave presidents greater privacy, allowing them to slip back and forth between the Executive Residence and the West Wing outdoors on the covered portico, without being in the view of the staff or press indoors.[2]"
Not that it would matter to anyone but a gardener but two historic Magnolia trees have been removed to make way for the ballroom. Also, protections for the National Wildlife Refuge in southwestern Alaska were removed yesterday.
Krugman's latest substack was titled, tackiness and tyranny go together. And mentioned it would be in place with a Russian oligarch or Saudi prince. "Trump Dictator Chic". They say the ballroom will be twice the size of the White House itself. It sounds like a few mega corporate donors earned a few Trump bonus points by contributing to it's demolition and construction.
"While the National Trust acknowledges the utility of a larger meeting space at the White House, we are deeply concerned that the massing and height of the proposed new construction will overwhelm the White House itself—it is 55,000 square feet—and may also permanently disrupt the carefully balanced classical design of the White House with its two smaller, and lower, East and West Wings. The federally recognized Secretary of the Interior’s Standards for Rehabilitation offer clear guidance for construction projects affecting historic properties. The Standards provide that new additions should not destroy the historic fabric of the property and that the new work should be compatible with existing massing, size, scale, and architectural features."
https://savingplaces.org/stories/national-trust-letter-regarding-proposed-construction-of-white-house-ballroom
catherine
10-24-25, 3:45pm
Rogar, that's exactly what I figured but didn't know how to say. Thanks for posting.
Pinkytoe, yes, regarding the trees, you're right. Trump doesn't think much of living plants, I'm guessing. Here's what he prefers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5h0qHwNrHk
littlebittybobby
10-24-25, 7:03pm
okay----game over, case closed, end of story. I am not an ideologue, or arguing over which sports team is best. But yeah---introducing more minutiae to "prove" your position is NOT going to change my littlebittymind at this point. The whole "demolishing a piece of history" or whatever arguments, when lefties demanded old statues be removed, buildings renamed, etc., is hypocritical. Yup. The real truth is that Fanaticrats are seizing upon anything they can, to gripe, gripe, and gripe. All there is to it. Get a grip--Kamala lost by a landslide. Hope that helps you some. Thankk mee.
iris lilies
10-24-25, 7:57pm
okay----game over, case closed, end of story. I am not an ideologue, or arguing over which sports team is best. But yeah---introducing more minutiae to "prove" your position is NOT going to change my littlebittymind at this point. The whole "demolishing a piece of history" or whatever arguments, when lefties demanded old statues be removed, buildings renamed, etc., is hypocritical. Yup. The real truth is that Fanaticrats are seizing upon anything they can, to gripe, gripe, and gripe. All there is to it. Get a grip--Kamala lost by a landslide. Hope that helps you some. Thankk mee.
It pains me so much to say: you have a point here about renaming buildings and historic monuments being torn down is ok as long as it suits one’s own political side
Since the media has determined that the topic du jour for us all to fight about is the construction of the White House’s ballroom, I looked into it a bit. My reactions are:
1. I can see the need for a large Hall in which to entertain
2. taxpayers are not on the hook for it so I don’t mind the cost
3. I wish the Commission that overseas the preservation of the White House had been consulted and apparently they were not, that is a major fauxpas
4. I have sat through many public meetings that wrangle about building onto existing historic buildings and tearing down parts of those buildings that are not original, and someone is always unhappy in whatever choice is made. Me, I would prefer to leave the White House as it was, including the East wing.
4. the ballroom rendering I saw uses classic elements that shouldn’t offend most people: big Palladian windows lined up in a row, and a nice transition from the White House to the big ballroom
5. people can bitch and moan about the design all they like, but if you’re going to build a facility to hold 1000 people it’s going to have a big presence, and no matter who designed it, there will be architects who don’t like it
6. Chances are a super star architect (not the guy who drew this one) would make something contemporary and in the eyes of most people, awful.
7. This will not win architecture awards and politics will play only a part of that.
catherine
10-24-25, 8:08pm
You make good points, iris, but my emotional reaction is I hate the idea of it.
bobby, I agree to close this case. I might have gotten a little hot under the collar about it, but because DH started on this topic yesterday and because I refuse to argue with him over Trump stuff, I kept my mouth shut, and this is where my pent-up words landed.
It's just a building, but it is so embemenatic of a lot of things I dislike about this administration.
frugal-one
10-24-25, 8:30pm
I miss Biden! Watching the news tonight and seeing all the attacks by trump on other countries (Canada over comments he didn’t like about tarrifs, putting war ships in Carribean etc). The demolition of the white house … raising beef prices here because he is importing it. All this within the first 7 minutes of the news. He’ll get us in a war and is on the way to bancrupting the country.. give another $20billion to Argentina anyone? Trump needs to be gone!
All Trump has known is money and big city. I suspect he was never in Boy Scouts, went fishing with dad, took walks in the woods (other than golf), never gardened or took vacations to Yellowstone. I sort of doubt that he has any appreciation for historic structures and may have dodged the draft and is spoiled with family money. It might go without saying that he never had a grade school science fair project. His world is money and power and the ballroom is made in his image of success. So good bye to the rose garden and the Magnolia trees and maybe the Alaskan wilderness or anything else that represents the opinions of how the houses of the public should be preserved or expanded. The rest is just quibbling
iris lilies
10-24-25, 9:36pm
The Rose Garden at the White House has been desecrated with
1. “Concrete courtyard” (Newsweek)
2. “Concrete slab”. (People magazine)
3. “ paved over with concrete”( Architectural Digest)
4. “ paving stones” (NPR)
5. “Pavement” ( Associated Press)
6. “massive expanse of unadorned concrete” (Gardenrant.com)
… and many sources that imply it is a sea of smooth concrete or concrete scored to look like stone.
Only, All the above are lies. NPR gets closest to the truth.
The material used in the White House’s Rose Garden is Indiana limestone cut in squares and laid on the diagonal. That ain’t concrete. Or Cement. Or a composite material. And taxpayers didn’t pay for it.
but that none of that stops mainstream media from spreading lies about it.
Real stone is a good choice but my personal opinion is it’s too white and I doubt it will weather much to soften that brightness, but the whole effect can be softened with the right lawn furniture. I can see beautiful large black urns holding flowering annuals popping against that paving.
I refuse to argue with him over Trump stuff, I kept my mouth shut,
We had a bit of a heated "discussion" today about this topic. I don't think DH is an ardent Trump supporter but he refuses to say anything derogatory about him. He avoids going there by saying instead that all politicians are evil and that one is not any different than any other in the end. Crazy that this rancor has crept into marriages too.
Real stone is a good choice but my personal opinion is it’s too white and I doubt it will weather much to soften that brightness, but the whole effect can be softened with the right lawn furniture. I can see beautiful large black urns holding annuals popping against that paving.
I wonder if the name will change from The Rose Garden to The Stone Palace.
iris lilies
10-24-25, 10:33pm
I wonder if the name will change from The Rose Garden to The Stone Palace.
The Entirely Truthful Mainstream Media claims Trump will name the ballroom after himself.
Who knows, they might be right.
iris lilies
10-24-25, 10:38pm
We had a bit of a heated "discussion" today about this topic. I don't think DH is an ardent Trump supporter but he refuses to say anything derogatory about him. He avoids going there by saying instead that all politicians are evil and that one is not any different than any other in the end. Crazy that this rancor has crept into marriages too.
I had a friendly argument with our friend from our old neighborhood who is visiting today, and funny that she was always the one who was dismissive of our historic code in our neighborhood yet she has concern about Trump actions with the ballroom.
let’s all think for a moment about how mainstream media is manipulating the sheeple of the United States, and how stupid are we to put up with that?
pinkytoe
10-24-25, 11:26pm
I think the pandemic shutdown greatly affected how much time people spent online ingesting all this crap. With DH, it became a habit to spend hours a day in front of his computer and continues to this day. Addiction of another sort.
catherine
10-25-25, 7:48am
DH just said he's going to stop consuming the news, and I think I'm right behind him on that. It used to be that CNN was a relatively benign way for me to bring familiar people into an empty space, which was comforting to me when I was alone, for instance, in a hotel room on business. The first thing I'd do is turn on CNN.
But now I think my habit is not so benign. I will always swing left, but I am not only gravely disappointed in the GOP, but I'm really disappointed with the Democrats. These feelings leads to frustration and boredom with the one-note 24-hour agenda on CNN and other left-leaning networks. When I watch Fox OTOH, the frustration ignites into anger. And then when DH comments on something, my stress level skyrockets. And I'm basically a very go-with-the-flow person with most other things..
I am part of the Indivisible movement in the Islands, and I plan on continuing that relationship, because at least it's not a passive poison--at least it's action that allows me to release some of those feelings that just sit and fester.
iris lilies
10-25-25, 9:18am
We have had drama concerning limestone pavers at my house so I sympathize with Donald and Melania!
Our drama was a little different. The last time we had conflict about it was when I walked out the front door and saw DH digging a big natural limestone paver that forms the limestone path in front of our house. I stopped him and put my foot down about those pavers being moved—EVER!
DH inteneded to “ fix” the limestone installation in some way but I don’t know what he intended to do, and the big rock he was digging is in perfect condition, so there is no reason to move it. Some of the other smaller stones are cracked so they do need replaced.
and that is my paver story.
I also think it’s funny that people who are so dismissive of turfgrass and they sniff about how suburban it is, are desperately clinging to the turf of the White House’s Rose Garden.
But I will say I do not like the lawn furniture that has been placed on the limestone pavers of the Rose garden. It is white with yellow umbrellas. That is not what I would’ve chosen AT ALL.
frugal-one
10-25-25, 9:33am
Latest is … Bannon is talking about how the plans are in the works to get trump in for a third term. We need to be worried!
ETA…In no way do I sympathize with the trumps! That is the most ludicrous comment to date!
iris lilies
10-25-25, 9:43am
ETA…In no way do I sympathize with the trumps! That is the most ludicrous comment to date!
i’m glad you caught that. I wrote it with you in mind.
frugal-one
10-25-25, 9:40pm
i’m glad you caught that. I wrote it with you in mind.
You have always been a trump fan. It does not surprise me.
Latest is … Bannon is talking about how the plans are in the works to get trump in for a third term. We need to be worried!
That would put Trump well into his mid/late 80's? Considering his current mental issues and his lifestyle I can't imagine his health holding out that long.
early morning
10-26-25, 10:14am
perhaps we should all send him McGift cards for his birthday and Christmas?
frugal-one
10-26-25, 6:10pm
perhaps we should all send him McGift cards for his birthday and Christmas?
That ONLY he can use. Like a sign recently…. Cholesterol do your job!
iris lilies
10-26-25, 6:23pm
That ONLY he can use. Like a sign recently…. Cholesterol do your job!
yes, that was what she was referencing. I thought that was one of the funnier memes to come out of that no King’s March.
It's just a building, but it is so embemenatic of a lot of things I dislike about this administration.
That seems to be the way lots of people think about it. I heard someone say it would probably help to simply accept that the White House is transitioning. It's new pronouns are Bigger/Better and we should all just respect its new identity.
rosarugosa
10-27-25, 6:50am
You have always been a trump fan. It does not surprise me.
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. I don't think we have any Trump fans here, except maybe LBB, and I'm never sure if he's serious or just being deliberately contrarian. I do think we have some people here who have traditionally voted more conservatively and are more tolerant of the current administration than those of us who are more liberal, but I don't think it quite rises to the level of fandom.
That seems to be the way lots of people think about it. I heard someone say it would probably help to simply accept that the White House is transitioning. It's new pronouns are Bigger/Better and we should all just respect its new identity.
Sort of like we should accept Trump will do what ever he wants without input from Congress, historic precedence, or public opinions. And he may even lie ab out it. It's a brave new world. It is just a building, but with some underlying issues around the changes.
Sort of like we should accept Trump will do what ever he wants without input from Congress, historic precedence, or public opinions. And he may even lie ab out it. It's a brave new world. It is just a building, but with some underlying issues around the changes.
Does Congress have any authority over the physical building outside of appropriations? Also, I'm not sure about historic precedence since I'm not aware of any of the many changes to the physical building being made without the use of taxpayer funds, and as for public opinion, do we really know what the majority of the public thinks about it?
Personally, I'll be disappointed if the addition overwhelms the image of the White House itself, but I'm not sure I have or deserve standing in the decision.
Does Congress have any authority over the physical building outside of appropriations?
I was probably thinking about broader issues beyond the building and more Trump's modus operandi as king. Did he ask for inputs from anyone besides maybe his sycophants who are obligated to agree with him? I seemed to catch earlier that he said he would not be touching the existing white house and the rush for demolition before people found out was pretty sneaky. Just a building built for a king.
As mentioned earlier,
"While the National Trust acknowledges the utility of a larger meeting space at the White House, we are deeply concerned that the massing and height of the proposed new construction will overwhelm the White House itself—it is 55,000 square feet—and may also permanently disrupt the carefully balanced classical design of the White House with its two smaller, and lower, East and West Wings. The federally recognized Secretary of the Interior’s Standards for Rehabilitation offer clear guidance for construction projects affecting historic properties. The Standards provide that new additions should not destroy the historic fabric of the property and that the new work should be compatible with existing massing, size, scale, and architectural features."
https://savingplaces.org/stories/national-trust-letter-regarding-proposed-construction-of-white-house-ballroom
perhaps we should all send him McGift cards for his birthday and Christmas?
Yes, or bacon of the months club. I heard an interview with the reporter, Jonathan Karl about his newest book, "Retribution". I gather the book is mostly about how Trump's primary motive is getting even. In the interview he mentioned Trump's amazing energy level. He said he hardly. seems to sleep, as he will make phone calls late at night or early. Plus all of his travel. And I suppose golf. Trump seems to have an unusually strong constitution. I'm pretty sure I could not keep up him. It may all come around to bite him some day. It doesn't seem like he has a healthy lifestyle.
pinkytoe
10-27-25, 11:55am
I am hoping I live long enough to see what comes after Trump. It isn't the man who irks me so much but all of my fellow citizens who seem to think he can do no wrong. I remain hopeful and realize that much of the angst comes from the media rubbing everything in our faces. Nevertheless, I will be relieved when he moves on.
I'm feeling more like Oscar Wilde, "Either that wallpaper goes or I do."
frugal-one
10-30-25, 3:54pm
I am hoping I live long enough to see what comes after Trump. It isn't the man who irks me so much but all of my fellow citizens who seem to think he can do no wrong. I remain hopeful and realize that much of the angst comes from the media rubbing everything in our faces. Nevertheless, I will be relieved when he moves on.
Isn’t that the truth? Had someone start saying how good tariffs were. Stopped them in their tracks… no political talk at the table!
ETA.. the man does irk me as well though. Will be SO HAPPY when he is gone. The constant barrage of him is untenable!
iris lilies
10-31-25, 11:46am
…ETA.. the man does irk me as well though. Will be SO HAPPY when he is gone. The constant barrage of him is untenable!
No! I couldn’t tell. You hide it so well.
frugal-one
10-31-25, 1:09pm
No! I couldn’t tell. You hide it so well.
The only positive is that there are MANY who feel the same as I do. We can only hope it will be over sooner than later!
Listened to the almost three hours of oral arguments in the tariff case before the Supreme Court this morning. I had two con law classes in college, plus good articles from the NYT on the different arguments each side was taking. It will be a very interesting outcome.
I have to say the US Solicitor General’s voice is about as bad as that of RFK Jr. It was grating listening to him for about an hour straight.
I was listening at work while doing customs clearances. Very appropriate, no? LOL
gimmethesimplelife
11-6-25, 7:18pm
I have hope for those who can not or will not leave the United States after Tuesday's election results. As we all know, the Democrats had a stellar evening, NOT A SINGLE CANDIDATE that DJT endorsed won their race, and DJT's home city will soon be run by a Social Democrat. Certainly most people are still best off fleeing this rapidly sinking country with no future - but at least for those who can not or will not flee, perhaps things will be a little less horrific, especially if Dems win back control of the House and Senate next year so that impeachments and imprisonments may begin.
It fills my heart with joy, the prospect of seeing Pam Bondi, Pete Hegseth, Steven Miller, and the entire lot of Trump's Criminal Henchpeople facing hard time for years with no hope of release, as it should be. Unfortunately, for those not fleeing, it is unlikely that this Criminal Trash will be sent to overseas prisons on different continents where they know no one and don't speak the language, which is what the Criminal Henchpeople all deserve - if it's good enough to break the law for migrants, it's good enough for them to spend the remainder of their lives in foreign custody. Unfortunately, as most of us know, the United States is rarely about justice, and likely being incarcerated in the United States is the best we can hope for for this Criminal Trash. But it's better than them being loose in society and causing yet more issues, breaking yet more laws, ruining yet more lives. It is time for THEIR lives to be destroyed. Long overdue, in fact.
As to DJT - I will refrain from stating what I wish for him. I just can not at this point remain appropriately civil so it's best that I pass. Rob
It fills will with joy, the prospect of seeing Pam Bondi, Pete Hegseth, Steven Miller, and the entire lot of Trump's Criminal Henchpeople facing hard time for years with no hope of release, as it should be.
Under what crime would you charge and convict them? I don't think serving your country while Republican is illegal,,,yet.
Under what crime would you charge and convict them? I don't think serving your country while Republican is illegal,,,yet.
Curses, there is that whole "due process" thing again.
Curses, there is that whole "due process" thing again.
Once again, Rob shows that apples don’t fall far from the tree.
It fills my heart with joy, the prospect of seeing Pam Bondi, Pete Hegseth, Steven Miller, and the entire lot of Trump's Criminal Henchpeople facing hard time for years with no hope of release, as it should be. .
It's not too bad a thing to think about, as unlikely as it may be. Imagine. I keep wondering about the Epstein files. It's almost like they are trying so hard to hide things, that there is something to hide. Or caught up in their own conspiracy theory. I see that MTG no longer subscribes to Qanon theory.
Once again, Rob shows that apples don’t fall far from the tree.
Leftists. Rightists. This is why I keep crocodiles in my moat.
Leftists. Rightists. This is why I keep crocodiles in my moat.
I thought you kept basset hounds in your moat!
iris lilies
11-7-25, 9:23am
I thought you kept basset hounds in your moat!
haha! But I think it is an old bloodhound who guards them thar woods these days on Orcas.
.
It's not too bad a thing to think about, as unlikely as it may be. Imagine. I keep wondering about the Epstein files. It's almost like they are trying so hard to hide things, that there is something to hide. Or caught up in their own conspiracy theory. I see that MTG no longer subscribes to Qanon theory.
Here's an interesting story:
Epstein texted with House Democrat during Cohen hearing, documents show - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/11/14/epstein-text-messages-cohen-house-hearing/)
Thanks. I can't get past the WP paywall. Maybe if it's something of note it will show up in the mainstream news later. I'm anticipating another Trump distraction to pull the media away from what ever is being hidden from the public.
I have seen where a Venezuelan woman is suing for the death of her fisherman husband who was killed in one of Trump's supposed drug boat demolition programs. Regardless of the facts, I suppose the poor lady has no chance against Trump's lawyers.
Thanks. I can't get past the WP paywall. Maybe if it's something of note it will show up in the mainstream news later. I'm anticipating another Trump distraction to pull the media away from what ever is being hidden from the public.
I couldn't get past the paywall either but I did see the story referenced elsewhere, along with video. It's basically showing that during a congressional hearing in 2019, well after allegations against Epstein were made public, he was texting a non-voting Democratic Delegate from the Virgin Islands (location of Epstein's island) feeding her real time information before and during her questioning of Michael Cohen as they were trying to get dirt on Trump.
Maybe there was more to it than that, but that's all I saw and read elsewhere.
iris lilies
11-15-25, 5:43pm
I couldn't get past the paywall either but I did see the story referenced elsewhere, along with video. It's basically showing that during a congressional hearing in 2019, well after allegations against Epstein were made public, he was texting a non-voting Democratic Delegate from the Virgin Islands (location of Epstein's island) feeding her real time information before and during her questioning of Michael Cohen as they were trying to get dirt on Trump.
Maybe there was more to it than that, but that's all I saw and read elsewhere.
I dropped the URL into a paywall remover and read the article lightly.
Lots and lots of detail. I think the gist is “Jeffrey Epstein had some dirt on Donald Trump.” But I may be wrong about that summary.
Sorry about the paywall--I didn't encounter that.
Here's a youtube about some of the emails:
��Michael Wolff BREAKS HIS SILENCE after BOMBSHELL Epstein Emails RELEASE - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE_ZqcluUZ0&list=PLBpiUxZcKxXQ8Z9uAY6WXItquhnSIIGIK&index=2&t=235s)
I haven't listened to it yet, but it does contain emails.
Here's one my naive brain could not have come up with on it's own. Trump a couple of days back ask Bondi to look into leading Democrat ties to the Epstein case. Clinton, et. al. Then he says for the GOP to vote to release the files in a turn about apparently to save face and declare his apparent innocence. Unfortunately, they can't be released by the DOJ because it's a case under investigation.
I was reading an article today by Niall Ferguson on the AI Boom. He used a rather clever (I thought) analogy using Dr Seuss' Green Eggs And Ham storyline, where Sam-I-Am continuously pitched green eggs and ham to other characters. I came away from it with a better understanding of the pros and cons of AI's rapid advancement and the realization that Sam-I-Am has given up the spoiled breakfast menu pitch in favor of the Epstein files.
frugal-one
11-18-25, 7:41am
Alan… don’t understand that analogy at all….convoluted?
Alan… don’t understand that analogy at all….convoluted?
My version of the analogy was lifted from this article. https://www.thefp.com/p/niall-ferguson-the-ai-boom-is-a-house-of-cards?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
Now, an explanation: An odd little creature, Sam-I-Am, spends the entirety of the book pitching green eggs and ham, an unappetizing dish, to a skeptical audience. With every page the pitch grows more elaborate. Would you like them on a boat? With a goat? In the rain? On a train? Surely there must be some context in which green eggs would be appealing? Sam-I-Am just needs to find it.
The modern day Sam-I-Am is the Democratic Party/Media trying to sell scandal against Orange Man through the Epstein files, they just haven't found a way to close the deal yet. But they persist. It hasn't worked yet on a plane, it hasn't worked yet in the rain. etc., etc.,.
My version of the analogy was lifted from this article. https://www.thefp.com/p/niall-ferguson-the-ai-boom-is-a-house-of-cards?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
Now, an explanation: An odd little creature, Sam-I-Am, spends the entirety of the book pitching green eggs and ham, an unappetizing dish, to a skeptical audience. With every page the pitch grows more elaborate. Would you like them on a boat? With a goat? In the rain? On a train? Surely there must be some context in which green eggs would be appealing? Sam-I-Am just needs to find it.
The modern day Sam-I-Am is the Democratic Party/Media trying to sell scandal against Orange Man through the Epstein files, they just haven't found a way to close the deal yet. But they persist. It hasn't worked yet on a plane, it hasn't worked yet in the rain. etc., etc.,.
Without visiting the way back machine to confirm, my version was that Trump, Patel, Hannity and other conservatives sold the conspiracy theories way before the big dem fallout picked it up. They have basically been caught up in their own deceptions. Horton hears a who?
I'll believe the files will be released when I see it.
My version of the analogy was lifted from this article. https://www.thefp.com/p/niall-ferguson-the-ai-boom-is-a-house-of-cards?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
Now, an explanation: An odd little creature, Sam-I-Am, spends the entirety of the book pitching green eggs and ham, an unappetizing dish, to a skeptical audience. With every page the pitch grows more elaborate. Would you like them on a boat? With a goat? In the rain? On a train? Surely there must be some context in which green eggs would be appealing? Sam-I-Am just needs to find it.
The modern day Sam-I-Am is the Democratic Party/Media trying to sell scandal against Orange Man through the Epstein files, they just haven't found a way to close the deal yet. But they persist. It hasn't worked yet on a plane, it hasn't worked yet in the rain. etc., etc.,.
having seen the photos of Trump with Epstein and learning that Virginia Roberts worked at Mar-a-Lago as a teenaged masseuse, I have a hard time buying this theory.
iris lilies
11-18-25, 12:17pm
having seen the photos of Trump with Epstein and learning that Virginia Roberts worked at Mar-a-Lago as a teenaged masseuse, I have a hard time buying this theory.
Virginia Robert’s Guiffre says positive things about Donald Trump in her tell-all book.
However, I won’t go too far into defending Trump in the Epstein relationship because …Trump. And women.
Virginia Robert’s Guiffre says positive things about Donald Trump in her tell-all book.
However, I won’t go too far into defending Trump in the Epstein relationship because …Trump. And women.
Good point!
Our state representative, Jason Crowe, was one of the six democrats who apparently made the video encouraging troops to follow the constitution and national laws in spite of orders from superiors. He was an Army Ranger with three tours of duty in combat zones and a bronze star. Since Trump's statement saying they deserved a death sentence under the some sort of sedition act he and his family have been getting death threats. I can imagine MTG getting the same death threats as Jason. One of these days Trump will get some nut case to follow up on his delusions of murder.
I could speculate that Trump's demands for fealty are showing some cracks and he is not dealing with it well.
Our state representative, Jason Crowe, was one of the six democrats who apparently made the video encouraging troops to follow the constitution and national laws in spite of orders from superiors. He was an Army Ranger with three tours of duty in combat zones and a bronze star. Since Trump's statement saying they deserved a death sentence under the some sort of sedition act he and his family have been getting death threats. I can imagine MTG getting the same death threats as Jason. One of these days Trump will get some nut case to follow up on his delusions of murder.
I could speculate that Trump's demands for fealty are showing some cracks and he is not dealing with it well.
I think that's a pretty dangerous game they're playing for political purposes. I don't think a single person featured in the professionally created and taxpayer funded video can name a single illegal order made to our military units. They appear to be encouraging anyone downstream from a military chain of command to refuse to carry out orders they disagree with, which certainly won't go well for them. I hate to think about the damage they could do with that sort of call to action.
Actions have consequences and this political video leaves out some rather important consequences as it promotes action. The UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) is pretty clear on the fact it is almost impossible for an individual to determine whether an order is lawful or not as each disputed order requires a ruling by a military judge. It also states quite clearly that “Any person subject to this chapter who willfully disobeys a lawful command of that person's superior commissioned officer shall be punished-(1) if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct; and (2) if the offense is committed at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.”
I think that's a pretty dangerous game they're playing for political purposes. I don't think a single person featured in the professionally created and taxpayer funded video can name a single illegal order made to our military units. They appear to be encouraging anyone downstream from a military chain of command to refuse to carry out orders they disagree with, which certainly won't go well for them. I hate to think about the damage they could do with that sort of call to action.
Actions have consequences and this political video leaves out some rather important consequences as it promotes action. The UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) is pretty clear on the fact it is almost impossible for an individual to determine whether an order is lawful or not as each disputed order requires a ruling by a military judge. It also states quite clearly that “Any person subject to this chapter who willfully disobeys a lawful command of that person's superior commissioned officer shall be punished-(1) if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct; and (2) if the offense is committed at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.”
I can't remember some of the details around My Lai, but that was a long time ago and a different place. I don't know about politically dangerous, but it was a little bold and did seem a little out of line. I doubt the every day soldier has much knowledge of the constitution, needless to say the rules of law, although the leaders do. At least one may have resigned rather than do something against his principals. Maybe it was just making a point that the military may be used against out country's own citizens, which seem like a topic these days.
MTG made quite the exit speech. I think she is going away mad.
Maybe it was just making a point that the military may be used against out country's own citizens, which seem like a topic these days.
I think it was an irresponsible political stunt prepared by partisans and targeted to a general populace audience unconcerned by consequences to others. YMMV
catherine
11-22-25, 3:12pm
I think it was an irresponsible political stunt prepared by and targeted to a general populace audience unconcerned by consequences to others. YMMV
Just as irresponsible and probably moreso for Trump to react with such an inflammatory response. If it were determined that the Democrats' behavior was "seditious"-- which I believe is a gross exaggeration if not a total mischaracterization--it should be handled--discreetly and up the chain of command, exactly as you said is the appropriate way to handle such matters. Not shouting in all caps to the general populace using clearly dangerous words with no rationale or dialogue. But of course, we have long given up on expectations of meaningful dialogue with our Commander-in-Chief.
Pretty good analysis of this situation: https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/20/politics/hang-democrats-trump-seditious-behavior
Just as irresponsible and probably moreso for Trump to react with such an inflammatory response.
I agree that Trump reacts inappropriately more often than not, but I don't see what he said as a threat, but rather a reminder that under specific circumstances following through with the Democrats recommendation can be, and have historically been, lethal.
I agree that Trump reacts inappropriately more often than not, but I don't see what he said as a threat, but rather a reminder that under specific circumstances following through with the Democrats recommendation can be, and have historically been, lethal.
Trumps words are more likely to be lethal than the democrat rhetoric in this specific instance. My opinion. It's interesting which people Trump considers patriots among his favored felons and our military heroes, POWs, and gold star families get his scorn. I believe it was his words that inspired the phrase, hang Mike Pence.
early morning
11-22-25, 4:42pm
Alan, just to clarify - are you saying that unlawful military orders have never been given? Or that the fact that they are military orders makes them lawful in all circumstances? If a (possibly unhinged) commander tells troops to use live fire on unarmed non-violent citizens, it would be seditious to ignore that order? Because that's what I think I'm hearing, but I do hope I'm wrong.
Alan, just to clarify - are you saying that unlawful military orders have never been given?
No, not at all. I'm sure there have been some if not many illegal or improper orders given somewhere within the military chain of command, but I'm not aware of any orders ever found to be illegal given by the Commander In Chief or Secretary of Defense. Perhaps because at that level all orders are vetted by military lawyers prior to being issued.
Or that the fact that they are military orders makes them lawful in all circumstances? If a (possibly unhinged) commander tells troops to use live fire on unarmed non-violent citizens, it would be seditious to ignore that order? In the absence of a clearly unlawful order such as your unhinged commander example the UCMJ requires all military orders be considered lawful until judicially ruled otherwise.
The risk involved in the video in question is that it fails to caution military members of the consequences involved in not following the orders in the event they are found to be lawful. The seditious angle comes into play by encouraging those military members to take it upon themselves to determine if the orders given by the CIC or SecDef are lawful or not, especially without providing examples or guidance regarding what is or is not lawful. Breaking down the military chain of command at its highest level is clearly seditious.
I can see where the legality of orders is a sticky issue, especially when they come from the commander and chief on down through the chain of command. I'd think the more likely cause for disobedience would be ethical or pure superior stupidity, as in maybe Pickett's Charge.
This might be what Jason Crowe and the other s are getting at, but they could be more direct.
The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 (https://www.google.com/search?q=Posse+Comitatus+Act+of+1878&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS1164US1164&oq=pose+comotitus&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCDQyMzJqMGo0qAIAsA IB&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&ved=2ahUKEwjW9sGdnIeRAxUVADQIHcZYGfMQgK4QegYIAQgAE AM) is a U.S. law named after the historical concept, and it prohibits the use of the U.S. Army and Air Force for domestic law enforcement unless explicitly authorized by Congress or the Constitution.
The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 (https://www.google.com/search?q=Posse+Comitatus+Act+of+1878&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS1164US1164&oq=pose+comotitus&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCDQyMzJqMGo0qAIAsA IB&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&ved=2ahUKEwjW9sGdnIeRAxUVADQIHcZYGfMQgK4QegYIAQgAE AM) is a U.S. law named after the historical concept, and it prohibits the use of the U.S. Army and Air Force for domestic law enforcement unless explicitly authorized by Congress or the Constitution.
Gosh, I was in the Air Force for 4 years 50 some years ago and as a law enforcement specialist had fairly extensive training on Posse Comitatus and the UCMJ, but I swear I had no idea the Air Force even existed in 1878. ;)
But no, I don't think that's what they were getting at, not at all.
Gosh, I was in the Air Force for 4 years 50 some years ago and as a law enforcement specialist had fairly extensive training on Posse Comitatus and the UCMJ, but I swear I had no idea the Air Force even existed in 1878. ;)
But no, I don't think that's what they were getting at, not at all.
Good point. AI says the law was later expanded to include the air force, marines, etc., but still goes by the same name. Basically it appears illegal for the president to use the military as a domestic police force. Whether it is the concept Jason et. al. were promoting or not, it seems like the most likely current issue at hand since Trump may be in potential violation of it, and is hiding behind the Insurrection Act.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/posse-comitatus-act-explained
What point do you think Jason and his patriot cohorts were intending with their video?
Good point. AI says the law was later expanded to include the air force, marines, etc., but still goes by the same name. Basically it appears illegal for the president to use the military as a domestic police force. Whether it is the concept Jason et. al. were promoting or not, it seems like the most likely current issue at hand since Trump may be in potential violation of it, and is hiding behind the Insurrection Act.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/posse-comitatus-act-explained
That AI is wrong. The Marines were founded in 1775!
early morning
11-23-25, 9:29am
But no, I don't think that's what they were getting at, not at all.
I think that's EXACTLY what they were getting at. As always, YMMV.
There is also the question legality of destroying supposed drug boats. Appearances are an Admiral retired rather than follow orders. Is it OK or legal for the military to execute potentially innocent people because the soldiers are following orders.
While it's not illegal in itself, Trump appears to be using the military to advance his ego fueled political agendas or just out of ignorance, which is intrinsically wrong.
The NYT had an interesting analysis of this situation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/23/opinion/trump-illegal-war.html
What point do you think Jason and his patriot cohorts were intending with their video?
I think the point is to infect the Democratic base with the idea that illegal orders are being given to the military. I think that's why not a single participant in the video can or will reference a single illegal order given when they are asked about it since if or when anything specific is proven false the whole effort is wasted. I've watched interviews with several of the participants on CNN, MSNOW (MSNBC) and CNBC where they are asked to provide specific details to justify their alleged fears and they can't or won't do so. I think that's because undefined fears have a greater overall effect on people than defined fears that are proven false.
Plus, it ties into the whole fascist, dictator narrative the base finds such joy in espousing.
I can respect your unquestioning trust in the correctness of all military orders, since, a you say, it appears none have ever been given illegally.
I can respect your unquestioning trust in the correctness of all military orders, since, a you say, it appears none have ever been given illegally.
You're misrepresenting me. I mentioned several posts back that I'm sure there have been illegal or improper military orders given within a defined chain of command but am unaware of any military orders issued by the CIC or SecDef that turned out to be illegal. Perhaps you are more aware than I? Can you share?
frugal-one
11-23-25, 1:19pm
I think the point is to infect the Democratic base with the idea that illegal orders are being given to the military. I think that's why not a single participant in the video can or will reference a single illegal order given when they are asked about it since if or when anything specific is proven false the whole effort is wasted. I've watched interviews with several of the participants on CNN, MSNOW (MSNBC) and CNBC where they are asked to provide specific details to justify their alleged fears and they can't or won't do so. I think that's because undefined fears have a greater overall effect on people than defined fears that are proven false.
Plus, it ties into the whole fascist, dictator narrative the base finds such joy in espousing.
No person finds joy of even entertaining such thoughts. But when the indications and actions dictate, it is wise to espouse the obvious.
You're misrepresenting me. I mentioned several posts back that I'm sure there have been illegal or improper military orders given within a defined chain of command but am unaware of any military orders issued by the CIC or SecDef that turned out to be illegal. Perhaps you do? Can you share?
Since I don't know what CIC or SecDef is, I have to take your word. My Lai comes to my mind. I fully suspect there have been other attempted or successful cover ups we common folk don't know about. I thought the NYT article did better than me for representing both sides of the issue without falling into your category of name calling. I trust some of you opinions as much as Jason and his other 5 who have extensive training and experience, but I don't think either is totally right or wrong. And I favor one over the other.
Since I don't know what CIC or SecDef is, I have to take your word.
Commander In Chief and Secretary of Defense, the two top slots in the military chain of command. At least one of the 6 Democrats, Mark Kelly, has admitted in interviews that their concerns are based upon orders issued by those two positions, although no one can commit to a predicate that fuels their concern. In my mind that makes it political.
Commander In Chief and Secretary of Defense, the two top slots in the military chain of command. At least one of the 6 Democrats, Mark Kelly, has admitted in interviews that their concerns are based upon orders issued by those two positions, although no one can commit to a predicate that fuels their concern. In my mind that makes it political.
I think we've successfully beat the dead horse. I believe several in congress have questioned the destruction of the supposed drug boats without presenting any evidence of their occupants guilt or a danger to our country. Maybe even a Republican or two. If I were operating the craft involved in their destruction under orders from Hesgeth, the TGV personality, I'd be asking questions. Any more a sneeze can be considered political, depending on. who is interpreting it.
I think we've successfully beat the dead horse.
:+1:
I see where Hesgeth is proposing to eliminate support of the Scouts, formally the Boy Scouts. Reading the article, the military support didn't seem all the much, a few jamborees and camping on military grounds, etc. I'm not sure the value of the scouts anymore. At one time there was some emphasis on outdoor skills, but I think there has been a shift more towards community service and personal development. His reasoning somehow was twisted around some sort of inclusion issues. I think young boys have shifted interest from outdoor skills or other clubs to computer games, anyway. I hope he doesn't go after Girl Scout Cookies! I was a scout as was my dad and an uncle was a scout leader. Maybe the time for scouts has passed after some of the abuse issues. Seems like Hesgeth should have better things to do.
My grandson is a boyscout and it's pretty much like I remember it, lots of outdoor camping and skills. Granddaughter is a Brownie and I am so excited to finally have a cookie connection in the family.
rosarugosa
11-26-25, 7:54am
I think it's funny that I was anti boy scouts because of their former lack of inclusiveness, and now Hegseth disapproves of them due to their inclusiveness. I'm sure Hegseth's disapproval will be more of a concern that my disapproval ever was.
I really loathe Hegseth. Every picture I see of him and his perfect hair makes me wonder how much time he spent practicing his look and facial expressions in the mirror, because you just know that he does. Of course the real issue is having someone so completely unqualified at the head of our military; it just boggles the mind.
I think it's funny that I was anti boy scouts because of their former lack of inclusiveness, and now Hegseth disapproves of them due to their inclusiveness. I'm sure Hegseth's disapproval will be more of a concern that my disapproval ever was.
I really loathe Hegseth. Every picture I see of him and his perfect hair makes me wonder how much time he spent practicing his look and facial expressions in the mirror, because you just know that he does. Of course the real issue is having someone so completely unqualified at the head of our military; it just boggles the mind.
A rumor circulating was that he had a make up room in the Pentagon, which I think was downgraded to a table with a mirror, make up light and a directors chair. If I were one of his generals, I'd have trouble taking him seriously, but I guess they have to. On the loathesome scale it's hard to pick the most loathsome of the Trump crew. Mark Kelly posted a selfie of his uniformed chest dripping with medals and a long description of his experience serving the military on some social media over the "you do not have to follow illegal orders" issue in a troll of Hesgeth's meager military experience.
I googled countries with death penalties for drug smuggling and MAGA is in good company with a few other third world countries. I couldn't add a filter, without a trial, but I suspect those others countries don't have much of a trial either.
You're misrepresenting me. I mentioned several posts back that I'm sure there have been illegal or improper military orders given within a defined chain of command but am unaware of any military orders issued by the CIC or SecDef that turned out to be illegal. Perhaps you are more aware than I? Can you share?
It looks like he supposed murder of the two survivors from the drug boat demolition may test your theory.
It looks like he supposed murder of the two survivors from the drug boat demolition may test your theory. I don't think that was a theory but rather a fact as far as I know. I would have thought the one fairly recent event that would have changed that fact was the CIC targeted drone strike against an American citizen in Yemen about 15 years ago, followed by subsequent strikes which did not target but did kill a couple additional US citizens. But, those were not found to be illegal based upon judges interpretation of authority. I shudder to think what would have happened to the drone operator on that initial strike if he/she had taken it upon his/her self to refuse the order as your "patriotic" representative seems to now imply they should have.
Maybe this will be a first, then. The coincidence of the drug boat issues and the warning from the six so called seditious democrats is certainly somewhat coincidental. Hesgeth will probably be on the hot seat regardless.
Maybe this will be a first, then. The coincidence of the drug boat issues and the warning from the six so called seditious democrats is certainly somewhat coincidental. Hesgeth will probably be on the hot seat regardless.
Yes, I think he will be, as he should if there's anything to the latest allegations. For the sake of uniformity and overall justice we can only hope that it is handled in a manner consistent with facts, historical roles and responsibilities rather than as a political gotcha. Although in the current political environment I'm not sure that's possible, especially when the entire kerfuffel is based upon just a couple of conveniently anonymous sources.
I wonder if a president can pardon a person who is guilty of committing war crimes. Not that that's the case, just wondering.
This is the latest news I've seen.
White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt (https://thehill.com/people/karoline-leavitt/)confirmed on Monday that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth (https://thehill.com/people/pete-hegseth/)authorized the second, follow-up strike on an alleged drug boat in the Caribbean in September following a bombshell Washington Post report that claimed he ordered the military to “kill everybody.”
"Leavitt told reporters at the White House press briefing that Hegseth authorized Adm. Frank Bradley to carry out the second strike, which reportedly killed two people who were hanging onto the burning vessel after an initial strike."
I wonder if a president can pardon a person who is guilty of committing war crimes. Not that that's the case, just wondering.
This is the latest news I've seen.
White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt (https://thehill.com/people/karoline-leavitt/)confirmed on Monday that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth (https://thehill.com/people/pete-hegseth/)authorized the second, follow-up strike on an alleged drug boat in the Caribbean in September following a bombshell Washington Post report that claimed he ordered the military to “kill everybody.”
"Leavitt told reporters at the White House press briefing that Hegseth authorized Adm. Frank Bradley to carry out the second strike, which reportedly killed two people who were hanging onto the burning vessel after an initial strike."
I think you have to apply a little critical thinking on this. If you issue a lawful order to the military to destroy a boat containing dangerous drugs enroute to the US for final distribution and the strike fails to sink the entire boat and cargo, is it illegal or perhaps even a 'war crime' to order the military to strike the boat again to finish the job? If you consider the previous strikes against similar targets the answer would be a resounding 'No'. However, if you shift the narrative to say that the second strike was ordered only to "kill them all" rather than complete the mission, that might be another matter all together. One makes operational sense, the other does not. The one thing to watch out for is whatever the political opposition to an administration wants you to believe.
I am open to the possibility that two survivors were clinging to boat debris after the boat was destroyed, and there was a second order to kill the two survivors who posed absolutely no threat. If indeed a second order was to "kill everyone" knowing there were shipwreck survivors clinging to the destroyed boat, the intent is quite clear regardless of how it's worded. I assume there are records of these specific orders or discussions, if they will be released.
I am open to the possibility that two survivors were clinging to boat debris after the boat was destroyed, and there was a second order to kill the two survivors who posed absolutely no threat.
Well there you go, no further discussion necessary.
I assume the White House explanation covers you end of speculation.
Leavitt said. “The president has made it quite clear that if narco-terrorists again are trafficking illegal drugs towards the United States, he has the authority to kill them. That is what this administration is doing.”
There are obviously two ends of the situation. Maybe you know from your experiences with military law how things will be resolved? I gather even a couple of GOP congressmen are asking for an inquiry and demands for records to be released and people testifying under oath. Military tribunal?
Fentanyl/drug trafficking is the convenient red herring for less easy-to-explain aspects of Trump's foreign policy.
Good article on duty now being charged on formerly de minimis shipments.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/01/business/tariffs-customs-retail-shopping.html?unlocked_article_code=1.5U8.73WF.Cyu OE-QTbyNd&smid=nytcore-ios-share
littlebittybobby
12-1-25, 11:34pm
okay---hooray for our side! That's what they get for trafficing dangerous drugs into the United States. Now---is there any other business we need to see to? Thankk Mee.
iris lilies
12-2-25, 9:11am
Good article on duty now being charged on formerly de minimis shipments.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/01/business/tariffs-customs-retail-shopping.html?unlocked_article_code=1.5U8.73WF.Cyu OE-QTbyNd&smid=nytcore-ios-share
I regularly ordered items from Aliexpress in China but have cut that out since I have no idea how much tariffs are and how they are collected.
I like to buy paintings from Denmark but now too nervous to do so.
I like to buy paintings from Denmark but now too nervous to do so.
Good! Just say no! If you can’t source it within the US, don’t buy it.
Good! Just say no! If you can’t source it within the US, don’t buy it.
Alas, many of the things I desire/require come from Europe or Asia, and there are no US suppliers of those goods, at any price.
So I spend my money on vacations overseas instead. That surely helps my own personal economy, though perhaps not the USA’s.
iris lilies
12-2-25, 6:10pm
I like to buy paintings from Denmark but now too nervous to do so.
the last three major pieces of art I purchased came from Europe. Two of them were in late October or early Novemberr and all were over $800, so I’m a little puzzled that tarriffs were not charged, and I was shocked at how quickly they came. They were delivered through DHS and I think it was a only a week-ish.
the last three major pieces of art I purchased came from Europe. Two of them were in late October or early Novemberr and all were over $800, so I’m a little puzzled that tarriffs were not charged, and I was shocked at how quickly they came. They were delivered through DHS and I think it was a only a week-ish.
Some shippers are covering the duties.
And it’s tariffs, not tarrifs.
Tariffs have had so many changes that I've lost track of any that seem significant. However, I was browsing some vintage upscaled rugs that would ship from Turkey and was curious if there would be additional fees.
Tariffs have had so many changes that I've lost track of any that seem significant. However, I was browsing some vintage upscaled rugs that would ship from Turkey and was curious if there would be additional fees.
Where they made in Turkey? If so, 15% flat rate. Country of origin (manufacture) counts, not where something ships from.
NYT has an excellent tariff tracker.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/07/28/business/economy/trump-tariff-tracker.html
Flexport is a very large freight forwarder/customs broker. They have an excellent tariff calculator.
https://tariffs.flexport.com/
Where they made in Turkey? If so, 15% flat rate. Country of origin (manufacture) counts, not where something ships from.
NYT has an excellent tariff tracker.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/07/28/business/economy/trump-tariff-tracker.html
The tracker was interesting. The rugs are vintage from the 1960's and 70's so I am no sure where they were made. I put one in a check out cart out of curiosity I didn't see any additional add on's.
rosarugosa
12-3-25, 8:18am
I believe my lace curtains are coming from Scotland. I had looked at so many lace curtains online that my head was spinning. When I finally found what I wanted and the ability to customize sizes, I was not going to let tariffs stop me from moving ahead. However, there was no indication that there was any add-on for tariffs when I made my purchase. Funny enough, the business owner is in the Boston area, and I had a lot of correspondence with her. They used to have a bricks and mortar store in Boston's Back Bay, but now they are online only. She told me how many yards of lace to order, and said they would come with an invoice from the seamstress for the custom sizing. So it was a somewhat unusual transaction in that apparently they are trusting me to pay for the seamstress after I receive my product. I mean, we all know I'm good for it, but the folks at London Lace don't know me at all.
My amaryllis bulb order this year did have an add-on for tariffs. I get them from a nursery in CT, but they import them from the Netherlands. It was a 6% add-on.
Rosa, some sellers don’t have their systems set up to tell you about tariffs. That’s all ok the buyer. So expect separate bill.
Rogar, I have bought a lot of rugs from this guy who ships from North Carolina, I believe, and he is wonderful, with great prices:
Rugsource
on Ebay
Rogar, I have bought a lot of rugs from this guy who ships from North Carolina, I believe, and he is wonderful, with great prices:
Rugsource
on Ebay
Thanks. I checked it out and it's similar to the places I was browsing on Etsy, but ships from the US. I'll browse more seriously later, but looks interesting.
Thanks. I checked it out and it's similar to the places I was browsing on Etsy, but ships from the US. I'll browse more seriously later, but looks interesting.
Ships from the US is what you want. No tariff hassle since it’s already here.
iris lilies
12-4-25, 9:17am
Rogar, I have bought a lot of rugs from this guy who ships from North Carolina, I believe, and he is wonderful, with great prices:
Rugsource
on Ebay
I look at rugs from Rugsource too!
It's always refreshing to see conservatives that buck the GOP. For instance, George Will who wrote about the "moral slum of an administration." I love the way he phrased this, for instance: "Rubio, whose well-known versatility of convictions is perhaps not infinite,...,"
This piece is about the war crime against the Venezuelan boat survivors by the Defense Department.
"The Sickenening Moral Slum of An Administration" (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2025/12/02/trump-hegseth-rubio-ukraine-venezuela-boats/)
I'm teaching a piece by Elie Wiesel this week and it contained this quote:
"Indifference is not a beginning, it is an end. And, therefore, indifference is always the friend of the enemy, for it benefits the aggressor -- never his victim, whose pain is magnified when he or she feels forgotten. The political prisoner in his cell, the hungry children, the homeless refugees -- not to respond to their plight, not to relieve their solitude by offering them a spark of hope is to exile them from human memory. And in denying their humanity we betray our own."
catherine
12-8-25, 11:03am
I'm teaching a piece by Elie Wiesel this week and it contained this quote:
"Indifference is not a beginning, it is an end. And, therefore, indifference is always the friend of the enemy, for it benefits the aggressor -- never his victim, whose pain is magnified when he or she feels forgotten. The political prisoner in his cell, the hungry children, the homeless refugees -- not to respond to their plight, not to relieve their solitude by offering them a spark of hope is to exile them from human memory. And in denying their humanity we betray our own."
Great quote, Tybee.
iris lilies
12-8-25, 11:35am
I'm teaching a piece by Elie Wiesel this week and it contained this quote:
"Indifference is not a beginning, it is an end. And, therefore, indifference is always the friend of the enemy, for it benefits the aggressor -- never his victim, whose pain is magnified when he or she feels forgotten. The political prisoner in his cell, the hungry children, the homeless refugees -- not to respond to their plight, not to relieve their solitude by offering them a spark of hope is to exile them from human memory. And in denying their humanity we betray our own."
Moving and well said.
frugal-one
12-9-25, 6:38pm
Friends here have had enough of the rabid trump administration and are moving out of the country. He is from Holland and has been here probably 25 years. It saddens me to see them go but wish them the best. If I could, I would leave as well. I checked different options but it is not viable. See trump is getting more authority to fire even more government higher ups. The gerrymandering in TX has been approved also. It truly makes my stomach churn!
Not sure if you can read this. The New Yorker doesn’t have gift article options like the Times. This is about Americans leaving for the Netherlands due to Orange Man. Very interesting read.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/12/15/how-to-leave-the-usa
You will find this very interesting on the tariffs.
https://www.cato.org/commentary/welcome-tariff-complexity-hell
frugal-one
12-10-25, 11:17pm
Wish could go one day without hearing idiot stuff trump is doing (or even not hearing his name)! Bombed 20 boats and now abducted an oil tanker…WTH! He’ll get us in a war yet!
rosarugosa
12-11-25, 7:50am
Ships from the US is what you want. No tariff hassle since it’s already here.
I received my curtains, and they were shipped from a Boston location, so no tariff add-ons. I also ordered some pottery texture tools from Etsy. They were shipped from Ukraine, but there was some type of customs label on the package that said tariffs had been paid, so I assume that was rolled into the pricing somehow.
PS: Every single time I write or type tariffs, I have to stop to think whether it's two "r's" and one "f," or vice-versa. Anyone else? Probably not you, Tradd!
iris lilies
12-11-25, 10:10am
I received my curtains, and they were shipped from a Boston location, so no tariff add-ons. I also ordered some pottery texture tools from Etsy. They were shipped from Ukraine, but there was some type of customs label on the package that said tariffs had been paid, so I assume that was rolled into the pricing somehow.
PS: Every single time I write or type tariffs, I have to stop to think whether it's two "r's" and one "f," or vice-versa. Anyone else? Probably not you, Tradd!
She already yelled at me about misspelling tariff! Haha but I don’t hold that against her and I probably still won’t remember how to spell it.
catherine
12-11-25, 10:27am
Maybe understanding the word's roots will help you when you spell it the next time:
(according to Google's AI):
Arabic Root: The journey starts with the Arabic taʿrīf (تعريف), a verbal noun from ʿarafa (عرف), meaning "to know," signifying "making known" or "notification".
Medieval Trade: This term was adopted by merchants in the Mediterranean, appearing in medieval Latin as tarifa.
European Languages: It traveled through Persian (taʿrefe) and Ottoman Turkish (taʿrife) before entering Italian as tariffa and French as tarif.
English Adoption: English borrowed it in the late 16th century, initially as an "arithmetical table" or list of duties, later becoming synonymous with the duties themselves.
If you simply call them duties, you don’t have to worry about spelling tariffs! LOL
iris lilies
12-11-25, 8:10pm
If you simply call them duties, you don’t have to worry about spelling tariffs! LOL
good idea!
rosarugosa
12-12-25, 7:37am
Fortunately, it's one of those words which, if I spell it incorrectly, I can immediate see that it's wrong. Maybe it's because I read a lot, but I can usually spot pretty quickly when a word looks wrong.
rosarugosa
12-12-25, 7:40am
Catherine: I've found it very interesting to see how many common English words have their basis in Arabic. It's not something I ever would have guessed.
Apparently there were Arab mathematicians who gave us Al-gebra, Al-gorithms, etc.
I think Tybee was the one who told me about the change in Canadian law that would allow me, with a grandparent born in Canada (came to US in 1930s and my mother born in US) to get Canadian citizenship. It was interim, but it's now part of Canadian law.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/politics/government/canada-just-made-a-major-change-to-citizenship-rules-and-more-people-can-now-apply/ar-AA1SoVQl
I just have to mail off for my mother's birth certificate.
I think Tybee was the one who told me about the change in Canadian law that would allow me, with a grandparent born in Canada (came to US in 1930s and my mother born in US) to get Canadian citizenship. It was interim, but it's now part of Canadian law.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/politics/government/canada-just-made-a-major-change-to-citizenship-rules-and-more-people-can-now-apply/ar-AA1SoVQl
I just have to mail off for my mother's birth certificate.
Way to go, Tradd!! Oh, Canada, we stand on guard for thee!
My mother was born in Canada,1923, but became a citizen of the US in 1945. Grandparents on both sides were born in Canada/ I kind of looked into it, but..too cold.
iris lilies
12-21-25, 1:15pm
My mother was born in Canada,1923, but became a citizen of the US in 1945. Grandparents on both sides were born in Canada/ I kind of looked into it, but..too cold.
I will not live north of interstate 80.
My mother was born in Canada,1923, but became a citizen of the US in 1945. Grandparents on both sides were born in Canada/ I kind of looked into it, but..too cold.
My motto is: Cold is good. Cold is life.
I love cold.
Windsor, ON is actually south of Detroit!
My motto is: Cold is good. Cold is life.
I love cold.
Windsor, ON is actually south of Detroit!
I love warm. Currently sitting in 77* Port Arthur Texas thankful that I'm not in 28* Windsor Ontario. Different strokes huh?
I love warm. Currently sitting in 77* Port Arthur Texas thankful that I'm not in 28* Windsor Ontario. Different strokes huh?
You're from OH, which already means you're broken!
<--Michigan native
You're from OH, which already means you're broken!
<--Michigan native
By your logic I live in Ohio but I'm a Missouri native.
Overall, my adopted team is better than your native team, just Sayin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Sayin)!
I was reading that some forward thinking individual purchased the domain name trumpkennedycenter dot org, before it happened. So now if you do a search of what's playing it's the Epstein dance troupe or some such thing. I'm stlll chucking, although it's probably not going to last long.
"Beginning January 2026, TrumpKennedyCenter.org enters a new era of devotion, unity, and inherited authority.
We exist to preserve what must endure, to honor what must not be questioned, and to gather those who understand that greatness is not chosen, it is recognized.
Here, tradition is not remembered. It is maintained.
Ceremonies, recognitions, and sanctioned appearances will be revealed in due time.
Participation is not required, but belonging is expected."
Hitler is HERE! No longer a hitler wannabe but full scale tyrant!
Hitler is HERE! No longer a hitler wannabe but full scale tyrant!
Can you elucidate?
iris lilies
1-3-26, 11:04pm
I was reading that some forward thinking individual purchased the domain name trumpkennedycenter dot org, before it happened. So now if you do a search of what's playing it's the Epstein dance troupe or some such thing. I'm stlll chucking, although it's probably not going to last long.
"Beginning January 2026, TrumpKennedyCenter.org enters a new era of devotion, unity, and inherited authority.
We exist to preserve what must endure, to honor what must not be questioned, and to gather those who understand that greatness is not chosen, it is recognized.
Here, tradition is not remembered. It is maintained.
Ceremonies, recognitions, and sanctioned appearances will be revealed in due time.
Participation is not required, but belonging is expected."
I have to say the idea of that URL displaying an Epstein Dance troupe as the live entertainment is pretty funny.
Can you elucidate?
I think maybe, from what came out of the President's mouth today, Venezuela may be Trump's Poland. He has made his expansionist aspirations well-known: First Canada, then Greenland, and they both told him "In your dreams." He seems to want to "own" everything between the Pacific and Atlantic. I wonder if he feels a need to amp up the Americas' dominance, since his policies seem to have motivated a stronger alliance among China, India and Russia.
Or maybe it's just the oil he wants.
I think maybe, from what came out of the President's mouth today, Venezuela may be Trump's Poland. He has made his expansionist aspirations well-known: First Canada, then Greenland, and they both told him "In your dreams." He seems to want to "own" everything between the Pacific and Atlantic. I wonder if he feels a need to amp up the Americas' dominance, since his policies seem to have motivated a stronger alliance among China, India and Russia.
Or maybe it's just the oil he wants.
If I recall correctly Hugo Chavez seized US oil companies oil assets in Venezuela 20 or so years ago, forcing those companies to abandon their operations in the country. I took those 'ownership' vibes he was transmitting today to indicate those assets would be returned. I think from a humanitarian aspect he would also like to return Venezuela to it's previous role as the most prosperous country in South America and return it to a democracy governed by democratically elected leaders, although I don't think that means we need to 'own' it.
If I recall correctly Hugo Chavez seized US oil companies oil assets in Venezuela 20 or so years ago, forcing those companies to abandon their operations in the country. I took those 'ownership' vibes he was transmitting today to indicate those assets would be returned. I think from a humanitarian aspect he would also like to return Venezuela to it's previous role as the most prosperous country in South America although I don't think that means we need to 'own' it.
Sounds reasonable, but I don't trust Trump to be reasonable. I don't trust his concern and wishes for Venezuela's prosperity, unless he's a major beneficiary.
If I recall correctly Hugo Chavez seized US oil companies oil assets in Venezuela 20 or so years ago, forcing those companies to abandon their operations in the country. I took those 'ownership' vibes he was transmitting today to indicate those assets would be returned.
The history of *how* those oil assets were initially acquired is quite interesting...
And probably any reasonable analysis of the situation should include that.
The history of *how* those oil assets were initially acquired is quite interesting...
And probably any reasonable analysis of the situation should include that.
As I understand it a previous Venezuelan dictator awarded contracts to US, British and Dutch oil companies in the years leading up to WWI. Outside of enriching the dictator, I think that action also provided great economic growth for the country overall. Is there more to it than that?
From what I understand, congressional approval was required in this situation before action … which was not done. It is dubious if this action is even legal by some news sources? Supposedly, according to trump, billions of US$ will be infused into the oil infrastructure. Surely, there will be no gains for the US ..SNARK! Looks like a political takeover to enrich certain entities TBD.
Sure does not make me proud to be an American!
I think maybe, from what came out of the President's mouth today, Venezuela may be Trump's Poland. He has made his expansionist aspirations well-known: First Canada, then Greenland, and they both told him "In your dreams." He seems to want to "own" everything between the Pacific and Atlantic. I wonder if he feels a need to amp up the Americas' dominance, since his policies seem to have motivated a stronger alliance among China, India and Russia.
Or maybe it's just the oil he wants.
Sound familiar?
If I could trust the words coming from Trump's mouth I might buy into the dangerous narco terrorist motivation. Unfortunately that is just a ruse and has more to do with MAGA wealth building, the expansion of Trumps fossil fuel based world. a Trump version of eminent domain, and probably some manipulations of affairs with Russian and China. And possibly related to his revenge tour of green energy. Civilians were killed. I wonder of the cost to us taxpayers and how Trump's gross military budget has expanded the US deficit relative to the cuts of school lunch programs to save money.
Sound familiar?
He even has a name for it: The Donroe Doctrine. So he's proud to brand his expansionist ambitions. Is there nothing the man won't name after himself?
iris lilies
1-4-26, 10:28am
He even has a name for it: The Donroe Doctrine. So he's proud to brand his expansionist ambitions. Is there nothing the man won't name after himself?
oh for heaven sakes it’s funny. Donroe Doctrine.
The man can (sometimes) deliver a line which even his haters should be able to admit.
As I understand it a previous Venezuelan dictator awarded contracts to US, British and Dutch oil companies in the years leading up to WWI. Outside of enriching the dictator, I think that action also provided great economic growth for the country overall. Is there more to it than that?
The Snopes fact checker offered some explanations for me.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-venezuela-us-oil/
From what I understand, congressional approval was required in this situation before action … which was not done. Did Congress authorize us to get involved with and support anti Gaddafi militants in Libya with the express purpose of effecting regime change through Muammar's overthrow? I think Obama and Clinton may have established a precedent in this sort of thing.
The Snopes fact checker offered some explanations for me.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-venezuela-us-oil/
LOL, I'm not sure how it explained anything said in my post which you copied, but OK.
LOL, I'm not sure how it explained anything said in my post which you copied, but OK.
I'm glad you agree, then. I suspect I didn't understand completely what you were saying. or it was incomplete.
I guess the bottom line I got from snopes is that Venezuela did not steal us oil and Trump lied about it, among other details. Maybe that's what you were getting at.
frugal-one
1-4-26, 12:27pm
oh for heaven sakes it’s funny. Donroe Doctrine.
The man can (sometimes) deliver a line which even his haters should be able to admit.
I find nothing funny about this moron.
frugal-one
1-4-26, 12:31pm
The Snopes fact checker offered some explanations for me.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-venezuela-us-oil/
Thanks for posting. Here is an interesting section:
Experts agreed, without hesitation, that any use of force by Trump to recover U.S. oil industry-related assets would violate international law.)
Venezuelan oil belongs to Venezuela
It is a fundamental principle of international law: Countries have total ownership and control (in academic terms, "permanent sovereignty") over their own natural resources. That includes oil, said both Rodríguez and Milena Sterio, an expert in international law at Cleveland State University.
frugal-one
1-4-26, 12:33pm
Did Congress authorize us to get involved with and support anti Gaddafi militants in Libya with the express purpose of effecting regime change through Muammar's overthrow? I think Obama and Clinton may have established a precedent in this sort of thing.
That was not a question I brought forth…
From what I understand, congressional approval was required in this situation before action … which was not done. It is dubious if this action is even legal by some news sources? Supposedly, according to trump, billions of US$ will be infused into the oil infrastructure. Surely, there will be no gains for the US ..SNARK! Looks like a political takeover to enrich certain entities TBD.
Sure does not make me proud to be an American!
Did Congress authorize us to get involved with and support anti Gaddafi militants in Libya with the express purpose of effecting regime change through Muammar's overthrow? I think Obama and Clinton may have established a precedent in this sort of thing.
That was not the question I brought forth…
Okay, the only thing close to a question I saw in your post which I responded to was "From what I understand, congressional approval was required in this situation before action … which was not done. It is dubious if this action is even legal by some news sources? ". My reply had to do with that. If there was another question hidden somewhere, I'd be happy to discuss it.
Okay, the only thing close to a question I saw in your post which I responded to was "From what I understand, congressional approval was required in this situation before action … which was not done. It is dubious if this action is even legal by some news sources? ". My reply had to do with that. If there was another question hidden somewhere, I'd be happy to discuss it.
No question asked.
Just watched Sunday Morning with Jane Pauley which gave oversight on Venezuela…..
What's the story with the firearms charges Maduro was indicted with? (Possession of machineguns and destructive devices; and conspiracy to possess machineguns and destructive devices)
It seems odd to charge a citizen and resident of a foreign nation for violating US weapons laws.
Could Australia indict JD Vance for possession of his AR-15, since that is contrary to Australian law?
What's the story with the firearms charges Maduro was indicted with? (Possession of machineguns and destructive devices; and conspiracy to possess machineguns and destructive devices)
I think those charges were not meant to be stand-alone but rather as supporting charges to reinforce the narco-terrorism and conspiracy charge. It doesn't make sense otherwise.
I think those charges were not meant to be stand-alone but rather as supporting charges to reinforce the narco-terrorism and conspiracy charge. It doesn't make sense otherwise.
Those charges seem absurd on the face of it, due to the jurisdictional issues. If I were on a jury, those spaghetti-against-the-wall charges wouldn't "reinforce" the prosecution's arguments, they would likely make me doubt any of the substantive charges.
The New Yorker had an article by a Yale law professor who seemed to provide a non-bias discussion of the legality and how it differs from other historic interference and control by US presidents. I've forgotten the details of others, although G.W. was a feature player in the story and probably most of them were illegal or borderline. I don't know that any of them proclaimed the Monroe Doctrine or stolen oil as a vague justification. is Panama next to fall?
I could read the article without a paywall, but they seem to be picky about that these days.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-brazen-illegality-of-trumps-venezuela-operation
The New Yorker had an article by a Yale law professor who seemed to provide a non-bias discussion of the legality and how it differs from other historic interference and control by US presidents. I've forgotten the details of others, although G.W. was a feature player in the story and probably most of them were illegal or borderline. I don't know that any of them proclaimed the Monroe Doctrine or stolen oil as a vague justification. is Panama next to fall?
I could read the article without a paywall, but they seem to be picky about that these days.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-brazen-illegality-of-trumps-venezuela-operation
The New Yorker is available via the Libby app from my library. I bet it's accessible via yours, too. You'll just have to wait for the next digital version of the print edition to come out, so later this week. That's how I read The New Yorker.
Those charges seem absurd on the face of it, due to the jurisdictional issues. If I were on a jury, those spaghetti-against-the-wall charges wouldn't "reinforce" the prosecution's arguments, they would likely make me doubt any of the substantive charges.
My other thought is that perhaps the firearms charges hinge on the overall conspiracy charges. That is, say for the sake of argument he was engaged in a conspiracy to smuggle/market drugs in the USA, *and* any of his co-conspirators here in the USA were doing naughty firearms things. As a member of the conspiracy, even while sitting in Venezuela, he'd be on the hook for their firearms charges as well.
The trial should be interesting.
Hitler-trump is now talking about the next countries on his list for takeover…. Columbia and Greenland talked about today. Seems he is using the Hitler playbook taking countries one by one? He needs to be stopped or another world war?
So saddening and alarming. Overwhelming, really.
It sure takes the heat off the Epstein files and the Hegseth slaughter of boat survivors. Coincidentally.
It sure takes the heat off the Epstein files and the Hegseth slaughter of boat survivors. Coincidentally.
Hopefully, all his travesties and crimes come back to bite him!
iris lilies
1-5-26, 8:47pm
I’ve mentioned my favorite podcasters are three London boys. I like their UK perspective. One of them has a very strong Venezuela connection because his mother is Venezuelan, he was sent to Venezuela as a child to spend many summers there, he speaks their language, and he has friends and relatives there who are giving him on-the-ground-live updates.
So I very much appreciated his take on the whole Venezuela situation today on a live stream. I understood very little prior and after that I have an overview of what is going on and why.
Another thing I like about these guys as they absolutely LOVE United States for several reasons.
frugal-one
1-6-26, 12:16am
Saw on tonight’s news trump received $1 billion from oil companies (for campaign?). Also included Cuba as another take over country. And, moron is still making irrational comments to Iran. When does the idiocy stop?
The news seems to think Cuba will be next. Under what auspices I'm not sure, but the propaganda machine will be the first sign followed by the sword rattling. A new Bay of Pigs headed by the barnyard boar himself?
This has got to be costing the tax payer a lot. Why not just send a few billion more in weapons to Ukraine and be over with that?
“There’s no way that the communist dictatorship in Cuba survives after the takedown of Maduro. It is over, it’s just a matter of time,” Graham told Fox host Trey Gowdy.
Today the Hill had an article saying the White House website has blamed the deomocrats for staging the Jan. 6 insurrection.
The White House launched a website Tuesday praising President Trump for his handling of (https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5673725-house-democrats-trump-january-6/) the Jan. 6, 2021, attack, simultaneously blaming Democrats for having “masterfully reversed reality” and saying Trump “corrected a historic wrong” in pardoning those charged with crimes related to the storming of the building.
iris lilies
1-6-26, 4:59pm
Today the Hill had an article saying the White House website has blamed the deomocrats for staging the Jan. 6 insurrection.
The White House launched a website Tuesday praising President Trump for his handling of (https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5673725-house-democrats-trump-january-6/) the Jan. 6, 2021, attack, simultaneously blaming Democrats for having “masterfully reversed reality” and saying Trump “corrected a historic wrong” in pardoning those charged with crimes related to the storming of the building.
ugh. We really are living Orwell’s 1984. This is repugnant.
ugh. We really are living Orwell’s 1984. This is repugnant.
Happy Insurrection Day!
Today the Hill had an article saying the White House website has blamed the deomocrats for staging the Jan. 6 insurrection.
The White House launched a website Tuesday praising President Trump for his handling of (https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5673725-house-democrats-trump-january-6/) the Jan. 6, 2021, attack, simultaneously blaming Democrats for having “masterfully reversed reality” and saying Trump “corrected a historic wrong” in pardoning those charged with crimes related to the storming of the building.
I'd love to look into that allegation but the link you provided doesn't say anything about a White House website or anyone blaming Democrats for staging Jan 6th. Your link seems to simply be a reminder that Jan 6th occurred 5 years ago and Republicans suck. Can you follow up with something useful?
Edited to provide update: By searching The Hill's site I was able to find the article you referenced although it doesn't provide a link to the White House website either. It does quote a White House spokesman who says it was part of a "trolling" effort and suggested he was a bit incredulous that the media fell for it. I'd love to see the actual site just out of curiosity.
I believe this is what the article is referring to:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/j6/#pelosi-footage
I believe this is what the article is referring to:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/j6/#pelosi-footage
Thank you!
I believe this is what the article is referring to:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/j6/#pelosi-footage
Which should I believe, my own lyin' eyes, or the Party?
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”
Edited to provide update: By searching The Hill's site I was able to find the article you referenced although it doesn't provide a link to the White House website either. It does quote a White House spokesman who says it was part of a "trolling" effort and suggested he was a bit incredulous that the media fell for it. I'd love to see the actual site just out of curiosity.
I find it incredulous that some adult person in the white house would even allow such a sophomoric troll. If that's what it was. No doubt some of the easily confused MAGAs will probably rally to the words.
Free Tina Peters?
The text is there are the link, with what the Whitehouse is alleging happened. Yes, what bae said, I believe what I saw.
The text is horrifying; they should be ashamed.
Colorado has been in Trump's sights ever since he has thought Denver is a sanctuary city, or just because. He has ordered closed a large NOAA facility near Boulder that does weather monitoring an research and common opinion is that. it's part of is revenge tour and there are some legal challenges. In the latest the last couple of days he has ordered a freeze on federal funds for food aid and child care under the auspices of fraud instigations. The revenge is for the conviction of Tina. Peters, a country clerk convicted of seven counts of 2020 election inference and doing a nine year prison sentence. He made repeated demands for her to be released or moved to a federal facility somewhere else. Since she was convicted of state crimes, authorities have refused to bend a knee.
He has referred to our governor as a "scumbag" and that he should "rot in hell". Slightly earlier he pulled funding for a water project that would pipe water to eastern Colorado small towns that have shortages of clean water. Even his sycophant, Boebert criticized that. Additionally as part of his revenge tour he has denied FEMA requests to help victims of recent wildfires and flooding and cancelled funding for transportation grants, all probably related to the Tina Peters in incident.
Trump can do all within his powers to erase the dark stain on his legacy, including blaming the democrats for the 1/6 riots. I don't think the WH web site is at all "just trolling".
No, not trolling. Rewriting history. An abomination.
A woman was just MURDERED by ICE about 4 blocks from my DS in Minneapolis. The gestapo are out in full force. The video footage is very disturbing!
The mayor of Minneapolis, after reviewing footage, told ICE to get the f—k out of Minneapolis!
A woman was just MURDERED by ICE about 4 blocks from my DS in Minneapolis. The gestapo are out in full force. The video footage is very disturbing!
The mayor of Minneapolis, after reviewing footage, told ICE to get the f—k out of Minneapolis!
Sooner or later there will be an unwise reaction to one of these events, and then....interesting times.
I don't think this is going to end well.
I do have to compliment Noem for her her Cosplay cowboy outfit. Halloween close out sale?
A woman was just MURDERED by ICE about 4 blocks from my DS in Minneapolis. The gestapo are out in full force. The video footage is very disturbing!
The mayor of Minneapolis, after reviewing footage, told ICE to get the f—k out of Minneapolis!
Yes, everyone should view the footage.
They are walking up to people and murdering them.
There could be a ruling in the tariff case Friday. Waiting with bated breath.
The victim was from Colorado. Her parents say she was a widow, had no anti ICE affiliations that they knew of, and was the sort of person who liked to help others. And was probably terrified.
The victim was from Colorado. Her parents say she was a widow, had no anti ICE affiliations that they knew of, and was the sort of person who liked to help others. And was probably terrified.
Really? A video I just saw from a resident of the house where her vehicle crashed showed a woman purporting to be the victim's wife. It was the same woman who we saw in other videos outside the vehicle at the time of the altercation who was filming the interaction and then screaming and running to the vehicle after it crashed. I'm certainly not sure but it sure appears that the victim's partner was busy filming the victims blockade attempt as if it were a planned event.
I think it's unfortunate that it escalated to violence but from the video it appears to me that the ICE agent who fired upon her was lucky he wasn't run down in the street during her attempted get-away. I'm also incensed that apparently every Minnesota politician within proximity of a TV camera and a preponderance of Democrat politicians with a social media account seems to be encouraging more of the same. I used to enjoy a spirited political debate with an exchange of ideas and goals, but this crap has gone too damn far.
https://www.justice.gov/jm/1-16000-department-justice-policy-use-force
1-16.200 - USE OF DEADLY FORCE AND PROHIBITED RESTRAINT TECHNIQUES
A. Deadly Force
2. Firearms may not be discharged solely to disable moving vehicles. Specifically, firearms may not be discharged at a moving vehicle unless: (1) a person in the vehicle is threatening the officer or another person with deadly force by means other than the vehicle; or (2) the vehicle is operated in a manner that threatens to cause death or serious physical injury to the officer or others, and no other objectively reasonable means of defense appear to exist, which includes moving out of the path of the vehicle. Firearms may not be discharged from a moving vehicle except in exigent circumstances. In these situations, an officer must have an articulable reason for this use of deadly force.
Really? A video I just saw from a resident of the house where her vehicle crashed showed a woman purporting to be the victim's wife. It was the same woman who we saw in other videos outside the vehicle at the time of the altercation who was filming the interaction and then screaming and running to the vehicle after it crashed. I'm certainly not sure but it sure appears that the victim's partner was busy filming the victims blockade attempt as if it were a planned event.
I think it's unfortunate that it escalated to violence but from the video it appears to me that the ICE agent who fired upon her was lucky he wasn't run down in the street during her attempted get-away. I'm also incensed that apparently every Minnesota politician within proximity of a TV camera and a preponderance of Democrat politicians with a social media account seems to be encouraging more of the same. I used to enjoy a spirited political debate with an exchange of ideas and goals, but this crap has gone too damn far.
I suspect details may become more refined. Some may not be true. The news said her husband was deceased and that's what I heard last night. I'm surprised Trump hasn't cone out to blame the democrats, at least what I've heard.
I hope not to watch the video again, but I was wondering why an officer on foot would stand inches or a few feet in front of a running car with an occupant of unknown mental capacity and possibly violent while his pal is trying to rip her out of the seat and screaming four letter words. That seemed enormously stupid and an invitation for a bad outcome. I don't expect a unbiased answer from the FBI, but I understand there could be an argument from both angles of interpretation. I saw the car turning away and just trying to make an escape in the opening between the firing officer and the open door to the other side. I did not see Noem's domestic terrorist trying to run down an ICE agent (but I did like her cowboy hat. Yippie-ki-yay.). All the ICE agent had to do was step aside.
And what Bae said.
Really? A video I just saw from a resident of the house where her vehicle crashed showed a woman purporting to be the victim's wife. It was the same woman who we saw in other videos outside the vehicle at the time of the altercation who was filming the interaction and then screaming and running to the vehicle after it crashed. I'm certainly not sure but it sure appears that the victim's partner was busy filming the victims blockade attempt as if it were a planned event.
I think it's unfortunate that it escalated to violence but from the video it appears to me that the ICE agent who fired upon her was lucky he wasn't run down in the street during her attempted get-away. I'm also incensed that apparently every Minnesota politician within proximity of a TV camera and a preponderance of Democrat politicians with a social media account seems to be encouraging more of the same. I used to enjoy a spirited political debate with an exchange of ideas and goals, but this crap has gone too damn far.
FYI — It was NOT the victim’s wife filming!! DS best friend, who lives right there, was the person who filmed! How you can justify or defend masked goons in plainclothes blockading a busy street in a residential area is beyond me. I am incensed with the rhetoric of this administration telling us we didn’t see what we just witnessed (think Jan 6 too) and the sheep who believe the garbage they spew! WAKE UP!!!
iris lilies
1-8-26, 10:05am
Our close family friend was permanently injured, his life turns upside down, when working as a security officer at a hospital. A car rammed him then ran over him ( deadly force.) He shot the driver dead while on the ground. This Minneapolis scenario is way too reminiscent of that.
Our family friend has permanent brain injury and cannot work, let alone live pain free with the numerous bones, broken and then patched, that resulted.
My takeaway: dont screw around with law enforcement officers with guns.
https://www.justice.gov/jm/1-16000-department-justice-policy-use-force
1-16.200 - USE OF DEADLY FORCE AND PROHIBITED RESTRAINT TECHNIQUES
A. Deadly Force
2. Firearms may not be discharged solely to disable moving vehicles. Specifically, firearms may not be discharged at a moving vehicle unless: (1) a person in the vehicle is threatening the officer or another person with deadly force by means other than the vehicle; or (2) the vehicle is operated in a manner that threatens to cause death or serious physical injury to the officer or others, and no other objectively reasonable means of defense appear to exist, which includes moving out of the path of the vehicle. Firearms may not be discharged from a moving vehicle except in exigent circumstances. In these situations, an officer must have an articulable reason for this use of deadly force.
https://imla.org/2025/05/supreme-court-rejects-moment-of-threat-doctrine-in-deadly-shooting-case/
Yesterday, the Supreme Court decided Barnes v. Felix, an important Fourth Amendment case for law enforcement involving the Fifth Circuit’s “moment of threat” doctrine, which only analyzes the reasonableness of the use of force at the moment the officer deploys deadly force. In a unanimous opinion, the Supreme Court rejected the Fifth Circuit’s narrow formulation, concluding the proper test is the “totality of circumstances” test and underscoring that a court “cannot review the totality of the circumstances if it has put on chronological blinders.”
FYI — It was NOT the victim’s wife filming!! DS best friend, who lives right there, was the person who filmed!
I think there may be more than one video, perhaps even some not filmed by your son's best friend.
Our close family friend was permanently injured, his life turns upside down, when working as a security officer at a hospital. A car rammed him then ran over him ( deadly force) He shot the driver dead. This Minneapolis scenario is way too reminiscent of that.
Our family friend has permanent brain injury and cannot work, let alone live pain free with the numerous bones, broken and then patched, that resulted.
My takeaway: dont screw around with law enforcement officers with guns.
I'm sorry about your friend. That is terrible. According to eyewitnesses in Minneapolis, this is not what happened. Your takeaway does not seem to be what happened here, either. Unless the message is stay indoors at all times and avoid ICE, who is randomly attacking citizens, and not alerting law enforcement of what they are doing.
Apparently a doctor was there and tried to render aid to the dying woman, and they would not let them.
iris lilies
1-8-26, 11:39am
I'm sorry about your friend. That is terrible. According to eyewitnesses in Minneapolis, this is not what happened. Your takeaway does not seem to be what happened here, either. Unless the message is stay indoors at all times and avoid ICE, who is randomly attacking citizens….
This woman was not peacefully protesting on the sidewalk (which, granted, that can lead to physical altercations as well, not always merited.)
this woman was—reportedly— actively engaging in disruptive behavior intended to block actions of law-enforcement officers. Then she aimed deadly force at one.
Of course she doesn’t deserve to get shot dead. She put herself into a high conflict situation where outcomes are not predictable although armchair law enforcement folks love to criticize.
As a facts come out, this situation will be made more clear, but I don’t entirely dispute the idea that the shooter/Officer could have chosen not to shoot. Coulda shoulda woulda.
But yeah, I think it’s a good idea to “stay indoors” As you say and not engage with law-enforcement in actions that will cause them to draw and fire weapons.
But we DO have 2nd amendment protection rights (God Bless America!) for just this scenario, fighting off government goons in the street. Whether this meets that criteria is up for debate.
How can you tell an American?
How Can You Tell an American? - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwhBJsx_1Ww&list=RDPwhBJsx_1Ww&start_radio=1)
Our close family friend was permanently injured, his life turns upside down, when working as a security officer at a hospital. A car rammed him then ran over him ( deadly force.) He shot the driver dead while on the ground. This Minneapolis scenario is way too reminiscent of that.
Our family friend has permanent brain injury and cannot work, let alone live pain free with the numerous bones, broken and then patched, that resulted.
My takeaway: dont screw around with law enforcement officers with guns.
You, obviously, did not watch the video footage in Minneapolis to even consider a correlation between these two events!
I think there may be more than one video, perhaps even some not filmed by your son's best friend.
The main video is the one we both are referencing.
Talked to DS today. His friends are leaving for awhile because receiving threats from proported MAGA fanatics for filming what transpired.
DS said for 4 days ICE has been blockading streets in the area and surrounding the local park trying to round up people. What I am hearing is provocation by ICE! It appears to me they are trying to incite violence! To what end? So they can invoke martial law? This does not sound like the America we now know. Is this what our country is coming to?
The main video is the one we both are referencing. There was a second from high up.
No, I referenced a "wife" making a video, you assumed something not said or intended. As you might say, there is no "correlation between these events".
No, I referenced a "wife" making a video, you assumed something not said or intended. As you might say, there is no "correlation between these events".
And, I said previously that was not the case.
trump goes back on his decisions based on their supposed lack of loyalty to him. Idiotic, as usual.
https://apnews.com/article/trump-vetoes-override-a3d16b0b01cdc059dd3657207e068b7e
Now that the FBI has preempted the state police from the investigation, the outcome is predictable.
I see Trump has asked for a few extra billion for defense, which ironically will be spent by the department of war.
iris lilies
1-9-26, 2:11am
You, obviously, did not watch the video footage in Minneapolis to even consider a correlation between these two events!
Hmmm, I think the shooting ICE agent, having been dragged by a car belonging to an illegal alien child molester who was ordered to stop his car, might have experienced some déjà vu and clearly recognized autos as weapons of deadly force. There have been 100 cases of cars going after ICE agents.
That said, there is some evidence that the dead driver experienced conflicting orders from cops, telling her to get out of the car and telling her to “get out” Meaning get her car out of there.
One video is very clear where we, the Monday morning quarterbacks, can hear the lawful order to get out of the car but I am open to the possibility she experienced confusion.
Hmmm, I think the shooting ICE agent, having been dragged by a car belonging to an illegal alien child molester who was ordered to stop his car, might have experienced some déjà vu and clearly recognized autos as weapons of deadly force. There have been 100 cases of cars going after ICE agents.
That said, there is some evidence that the dead driver experienced conflicting orders from cops, telling her to get out of the car and telling her to “get out” Meaning get her car out of there.
One video is very clear where we, the Monday morning quarterbacks, can hear the lawful order to get out of the car but I am open to the possibility she experienced confusion.
Huh? What are you talking about? The person shot was a woman and there was no car dragging by an ICE agent. Also deadly shooting an unarmed person because they didn’t get out of the car when ordered is unconscionable.
iris lilies
1-9-26, 7:37am
Huh? What are you talking about? The person shot was a woman and there was no car dragging by an ICE agent. Also deadly shooting an unarmed person because they didn’t get out of the car when ordered is unconscionable.
if you look into this case, you’ll find what I’m talking about. There’s no ICE agent who was dragging anyone by a car, that was the illegal alien who committed THAT crime.
I suppose part of any fair investigation would ask whether the officer felt his life was in danger, regardless of whether the woman was trying to ram him or just get away. His previous experience being dragged by a car might play into the defense. Alternately, he was just an idiot for standing in front of a running car while the driver was being yelled at and threatened and his reaction was poor judgement.
iris lilies
1-9-26, 11:05am
I suppose part of any fair investigation would ask whether the officer felt his life was in danger, regardless of whether the woman was trying to ram him or just get away. His previous experience being dragged by a car might play into the defense. Alternately, he was just an idiot for standing in front of a running car while the driver was being yelled at and threatened and his reaction was poor judgement.
from the Supreme Court decision Alan referenced earlier. Even though Justice Kagan is no wise Latina, she sees the reality and the necessity in these situations.
“…In the unanimous 2025 Supreme Court decision
Barnes v. Felix, Justice Kagan, writing for the Court, stated that when evaluating a police officer's use of force, including the perception that their life is in danger, courts must consider the "totality of the circumstances," which includes events leading up to the "climactic moment," not just the moment the threat was perceived…”
this of course addresses the only the legality of the shooting ICE agent’s action. it doesn’t address whether there were other actions he could’ve should’ve taken. It doesn’t address the awfulness of it.
I suppose part of any fair investigation would ask whether the officer felt his life was in danger, regardless of whether the woman was trying to ram him or just get away. His previous experience being dragged by a car might play into the defense. Alternately, he was just an idiot for standing in front of a running car while the driver was being yelled at and threatened and his reaction was poor judgement.
Thank you for moving past the narrative and bringing up the important aspects of the event. Now, go one step further and consider the fact that he wasn't standing in front of a running vehicle, he was approaching it from the passenger side when it suddenly backed up at an angle and then was pointed towards him as it quickly accelerated forward.
Thank you for moving past the narrative and bringing up the important aspects of the event. Now, go one step further and consider the fact that he wasn't standing in front of a running vehicle, he was approaching it from the passenger side when it suddenly backed up at an angle and then was pointed towards him as it quickly accelerated forward.
Maybe. I sure don't buy into the other narrative that she was a radicalized domestic terrorist who deserved what she got, per J.D., either. I just think there should be a fair investigation and it's not so obvious either way. And that's probably not going to happen. Did he get dragged perviously because he used poor judgement then, too? Could he have easily moved aside?
I think he should be judged in a court of law by a jury of his peers where the law is carefully explained and both sides have their day in court. It would be interesting to get the opinions of police well trained in crowd control as expert witnesses. I don't think anything like that is going to happen. Is that unreasonable to ask for?
iris lilies
1-9-26, 12:43pm
Maybe. I sure don't buy into the other narrative that she was a radicalized domestic terrorist who deserved what she got, per J.D., either. I just think there should be a fair investigation and it's not so obvious either way. And that's probably not going to happen. Did he get dragged perviously because he used poor judgement then, too? Could he have easily moved aside?
I think he should be judged in a court of law by a jury of his peers where the law is carefully explained and both sides have their day in court. It would be interesting to get the opinions of police well trained in crowd control as expert witnesses. I don't think anything like that is going to happen. Is that unreasonable to ask for?
yes, it is unreasonable if a Grand jury, after carefully considering evidence and bucking the mob, determines not to try the case. Mob rule should not prevail.
The St, Louis County prosecutor who was elected based on his rhetoric about taking Michael Brown’s case in Ferguson to trial found, after he got into office, that there was no there “there .“ Despite his openness to mob mentality, he was unable to make the legal system work in outrageous ways.
But that guy is now out of office and has gone to Congress, turning on his supporters and becoming a shill for Israel or so we’re told.
yes, it is unreasonable if a Grand jury, after carefully considering evidence and bucking the mob, determines not to try the case. Mob rule should not prevail.
Do you honestly think this will ever go to a grand jury? I get the feeling the Vice President of the United States has already exonerated the guy, even without an investigation.
early morning
1-9-26, 1:02pm
I get the feeling the Vice President of the United States has already exonerated the guy, even without an investigation Doesn't matter. *@#$*%!@ would just pardon him anyway.
iris lilies
1-9-26, 1:03pm
Do you honestly think this will ever go to a grand jury? I get the feeling the Vice President of the United States has already exonerated the guy, even without an investigation.
I honestly think there is a chance it will get taken into the legal system. There is some sort of jurisdictional issue that I haven’t followed that plays into it, I mean State vs Feds.
iris lilies
1-9-26, 1:04pm
Doesn't matter. *@#$*%!@ would just pardon him anyway.Not if he is convicted by the State.
but the chance of conviction is super slim.And that right there is a valid reason to not prosecute, if the prosecutor dowsn’t see a winnable case.
I honestly think there is a chance it will get taken into the legal system. There is some sort of jurisdictional issue that I haven’t followed that plays into it, I mean State vs Feds.
I just hope it gets fair unbiased treatment after experts have reviewed all the evidence. There are elements of our current "legal system" that are run by the administration, and who has already passed its judgement.
The way I get the current investigation, the state isn't allowed access to any evidence collected by the FBI and isn't allowed on the crime scene? I think JD referred to the state police as radical leftist extremists, if I heard right. That's a great state to a fair investigation.
Edit: And...JD said an investigation by the state could ruin the poor guys life. WTF. He shot and killed a mother of three for the mis handling of a parking obstruction! I wonder how much he ruined he lives of the kids and her family.
Thank you for moving past the narrative and bringing up the important aspects of the event. Now, go one step further and consider the fact that he wasn't standing in front of a running vehicle, he was approaching it from the passenger side when it suddenly backed up at an angle and then was pointed towards him as it quickly accelerated forward.
Obviously I don't know the source of your information, but a news account I read from an eye witness says this is not what happened. She said the officer was not in front of the car, and came up on the side, to the window, and shot her.
Maybe this film will help?
Bing Videos (https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=minnesota+ice+murder+usa+today+eye+ witness&mid=817AEB9ADF72AE42F7FB817AEB9ADF72AE42F7FB&FORM=VIRE)
It seems like one of the bullet holes was on the "side" of the windshield, not the front.
Obviously I don't know the source of your information, but a news account I read from an eye witness says this is not what happened. She said the officer was not in front of the car, and came up on the side, to the window, and shot her.
You're right in that he approached the vehicle from the side, the passenger side as I previously said, and was not standing in front of it as Rogar implied. Where I will question your version is that he did not come up to the window. Once the vehicle was pointed at and accelerating towards him, his first shot was through the windshield and two subsequent shots apparently went through the drivers window as he stepped back after being brushed by the moving vehicle as it moved past him. That's obvious from all video I've seen.
And..JD said an investigation by the state could ruin the poor guys life. WTF. He shot and killed a mother of three for the mis handling of a parking obstruction by strong arming ICE goons! I wonder how much he ruined he lives of the kids and her family. Quibbling over the legal details is ok, but this was just wrong and ICE is to blame.
You're right in that he approached the vehicle from the side, the passenger side as I previously said, and was not standing in front of it as Rogar implied. Where I will question your version is that he did not come up to the window. Once the vehicle was pointed at and accelerating towards him, his first shot was through the windshield and two subsequent shots apparently went through the drivers window as he stepped back after being brushed by the moving vehicle as it moved past him. That's obvious from all video I've seen.
I actually don't have a version, I am sharing the video and what I have read, in the interests of trying to figure out what actually happened.
iris lilies
1-9-26, 3:39pm
And..JD said an investigation by the state could ruin the poor guys life. WTF. He shot and killed a mother of three for the mis handling of a parking obstruction by strong arming ICE goons! I wonder how much he ruined he lives of the kids and her family. Quibbling over the legal details is ok, but this was just wrong and ICE is to blame.
ok, I will go a certain way with you that considering the overall welfare of our culture and society, ICE is to blame, and this was wrong in that lense.
But the welfare of our culture and society depends on a competent legal system and it is not at all fair to throw this cop to the mob so they can extract their vengeance. “Quibbling over legal details” is the process that MUST prevail.
will it be influenced by political issues? Of course. All legal issues are, every one of them.
iris lilies
1-9-26, 3:42pm
I’m am curious to know what kind of training Renee Goode got from this organization that recruited her to be an ICE disruptor. Does Anyone know this or have seen articles about it?
I’m curious how they were counseled to respond to lawful orders from law enforcement.
I’m am curious to know what kind of training Renee Goode got from this organization that recruited her to be an ICE disruptor. Does Anyone know this or have seen articles about it?
I’m curious how they were counseled to respond to lawful orders from law enforcement.
That could be part of a fair investigation, if it were to ever occur. My impression was that she was just trying to get away from a scary situation. What organization are you thinking of?
Trump's deportation tactics are wildly and tragically off course.
I’m am curious to know what kind of training Renee Goode got from this organization that recruited her to be an ICE disruptor.
This is news to me--where are you getting this information?
Just…wow. Good luck y’all.
Video from the ICE officer involved in the incident. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Bz04gFH2l6c
I just didn't get much new from the video? Didn't they have body cameras, not cell phones? Where is that? Was he holding the cell phone when he should have been paying more attention to the situation. Or don't ICE have body cams?
I hope the department of justice doesn't just call it a closed case of domestic terrorism without a transparent investigation where all involved can present their case.
The Ode to Joy flashmob in Spain was beautiful. People need more things like that in their streets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbJcQYVtZMo
I’m am curious to know what kind of training Renee Goode got from this organization that recruited her to be an ICE disruptor. Does Anyone know this or have seen articles about it?
I’m curious how they were counseled to respond to lawful orders from law enforcement.
People in that neighborhood are fed up with the Gestapos taking over their streets! YOU have NO idea what you are talking about! The only thing I can think of is you are listening to the radical MAGA conspiracies. If I was close I would be in the streets protesting too AND I have not been recruited. That is the most moronic thing I have heard!
iris lilies
1-9-26, 6:29pm
People in that neighborhood are fed up with the Gestapos taking over their streets! YOU have NO idea what you are talking about! The only thing I can think of is you are listening to the radical MAGA conspiracies. If I was close I would be in the streets protesting too AND I have not been recruited. That is the most moronic thing I have heard!
If you are having trouble with the word “recruiting “you can ignore that and just assume Renée volunteered for a volunteer organization that took in volunteers for volunteer activities to impede ICE.
Substitue “ Volunteer” for “Recruit” and you Ok?
I do know what I’m talking about since I live in the St. Louis region, ground zero for modern day cop protests.
My neighborhood’s Methodist Church created a bit of a stink with a few neighbors (well, me for sure!) when they sponsored training sessions on how to protest and engage with police officers. Our friends on the board of the church claimed the right hand didnt know know what the left hand was doing, and they didn’t understand what they were sponsoring but I’m pretty sure the woke head pastor knew what she gave her church building over to.
All I know is when I drove by I saw people lying down in the street and shouting at each other as they conducted their “drills.”
I’ve got nothing against peaceful protests that do not impede citizen activity. It’s the American way, go for it!mBut lying down in the street, engaging with police officers, interfering with activities of citizens —I am not cool with.
So we boycotted the Methodist Church for a year in their holiday fundraisers, and I told board members why. Not that we made much if a difference :~) but you gotta get in your protesting licks when you can.
People in that neighborhood are fed up with the Gestapos taking over their streets! YOU have NO idea what you are talking about! The only thing I can think of is you are listening to the radical MAGA conspiracies. If I was close I would be in the streets protesting too AND I have not been recruited. That is the most moronic thing I have heard!
Were you just too busy between 2009 and 2016 when the US set a standing record for deportations under one administration? Approximately 3,000,000 I believe.
Or were you even aware it was happening then?
Were you just too busy between 2009 and 2016 when the US set a standing record for deportations under one administration? Approximately 3,000,000 I believe.
Or were you even aware it was happening then?
Are we thinking Obama set a record for deportations without out the help of a force of ICE strongmen causing riots in the streets?
iris lilies
1-9-26, 6:53pm
This is news to me--where are you getting this information?
I have seen actions of an organization that trains their protesters with drills in street protests.
And then over on the MMM forum “ Kris” in MPLS talks about her ICE protests, which are not confined to courts, although she is also a court observer. She mentioned her activity below which tells me there’s a strong organizational element to the ICE protests. That doesn’t mean these organizational efforts are wrong, but I’d like to know what kind of training they’re doing especially on the “rapid response team “ Kris mentions.
How are they rapidly responding? Inquiring minds want to know.
Kris says
“…Thanks. I am taking advantage of my FIRE status. I am doing quite a bit these days. Protesting regularly. Being a legal observer in immigration court. Patrolling for ICE sightings and calling them in to our local rapid response team.”
And finally, just when I was wondering how I would find out, Meghan Kelly covers Renée Goode’s protest training on her latest broadcast.
If you are having trouble with the word “recruiting “you can ignore that and just assume Renée volunteered for a volunteer organization that took in volunteers for volunteer activities to impede ICE.
Substitue “ Volunteer” for “Recruit” and you Ok?
I do know what I’m talking about since I live in the St. Louis region, ground zero for modern day cop protests.
My neighborhood’s Methodist Church created a bit of a stink with a few neighbors (well, me for sure!) when they sponsored training sessions on how to protest and engage with police officers. Our friends on the board of the church claimed the right hand didnt know know what the left hand was doing, and they didn’t understand what they were sponsoring but I’m pretty sure the woke head pastor knew what she gave her church building over to.
All I know is when I drove by I saw people lying down in the street and shouting at each other as they conducted their “drills.”
I’ve got nothing against peaceful protests that do not impede citizen activity. It’s the American way, go for it!mBut lying down in the street, engaging with police officers, interfering with activities of citizens —I am not cool with. So we boycotted the Methodist Church for a year in their holiday fundraiser, and I told board members why.
You know what they say about those who assume! Minneapolis is not St. Louis. And, no, I am not ok with your assumptions.
Were you just too busy between 2009 and 2016 when the US set a standing record for deportations under one administration? Approximately 3,000,000 I believe.
Or were you even aware it was happening then?
There were not masked, plain-clothed thugs grabbing people off the street and sending them God knows where. It was done in an ethical and legal fashion… unlike now!
I have seen actions of an organization that trains their protesters with drills in street protests.
And then over on the MMM forum “ Kris” in MPLS talks about her ICE protests, which are not confined to courts, although she is also a court observer. She mentioned her activity below which tells me there’s a strong organizational element to the ICE protests. That doesn’t mean these organizational efforts are wrong, but I’d like to know what kind of training they’re doing especially on the “rapid response team “ Kris mentions. how are they rapidly responding? Inquiring minds want to know.
Kris says
“…Thanks. I am taking advantage of my FIRE status. I am doing quite a bit these days. Protesting regularly. Being a legal observer in immigration court. Patrolling for ICE sightings and calling them in to our local rapid response team.”
And finally, just when I was wondering how I would find out, Meghan Kelly covers Renée Goode’s protest training on her latest broadcast.
I hope they continue to broadcast ICE raids!
Oh yeah, count on former FOX news person … Meghan Kelly. (NOT) for reliable info..
Are we thinking Obama set a record for deportations without out the help of a force of ICE strongmen causing riots in the streets?
No, we're thinking Obama set a record for deportations without resistors rioting in the streets. I wonder why?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2026 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.