View Full Version : Question and Answer... SLF expectancy.
Rozie.
If you could be so kind as to answer one thing for me.
How far in the red do we need to go (or be) before the survival of the SLF is placed in jeopardy?
I don't think we'll ever be in the red. There are plenty of us who simply won't allow it to happen.
Thank you, Alan.
One more question if I may.
What do you think about the idea of making this a private forum? I've come across several, where you cannot gain access unless you are actively logged-in.
iris lily
4-30-13, 10:45am
Thank you, Alan.
One more question if I may.
What do you think about the idea of making this a private forum? I've come across several, where you cannot gain access unless you are actively logged-in.
I like the fact that this site can be browsed before registering. Why would most people bother to register if they haven't seen any of the forum posts? I don't see the point of keeping people out. What does that gain?
Let me turn-the-table on your question and present another question of my own. Why should we allow free-access to anyone/everyone, when those who don't participate, also don't help support the cause of our home? What does that gain?
Thank you, Alan.
One more question if I may.
What do you think about the idea of making this a private forum? I've come across several, where you cannot gain access unless you are actively logged-in.
I think it's a terrible idea to restrict the forum to existing members only. The old site did that for a while and in my opinion it was a complete failure.
Why should we allow free-access to anyone/everyone, when those who don't participate, also don't help support the cause of our home? What does that gain?
It doesn't cost us anything to allow everyone to view the boards. What would you gain by denying it?
Originally posted by Alan.
I think it's a terrible idea to restrict the forum to existing members only. The old site did that for a while and in my opinion it was a complete failure.I was unaware that the old forum ways were a failure, however, examining the current ways of our home, I also wonder if what we are offering isn't also a failure.
Originally posted by Alan.
It doesn't cost us anything to allow everyone to view the boards. What would you gain by denying it?I'm not entirely sure what we would be gaining by making this a private forum, but it's been something that's been simmering in the back of my mind for quite some time, and so I decided to mention it.
Growing up on a cattle ranch I built a lot of fences. It made sense there. It doesn't here. The last thing we should do is make it more difficult for the next wave of new members to get in. If anything we should be courting them to come take a free test drive.
Originally posted by Gregg.
Growing up on a cattle ranch I built a lot of fences. It made sense there. It doesn't here. The last thing we should do is make it more difficult for the next wave of new members to get in. If anything we should be courting them to come take a free test drive.Understandable, but so far our efforts to court anyone, aside from existing members, is coming in at an ever depressing rate.
If we were a business trying to survive we would (or at least should) take a very close look at what our customers wanted vs. what we were providing. Businesses fail as often as not because they are selling the wrong thing or trying to sell the right thing to the wrong people. The same kind of analysis is valid here. If we figure out who we most strongly appeal to its easy to find them in the age of targeted media.
gimmethesimplelife
4-30-13, 11:36am
WARNING WARNING WARNING
I'm about to get slightly corporate which is something I do not often do and I don't think I have ever done around here so I thought I'd better preface this with a warning.
I wonder.....the old boards were tied into the concept of Your Money or Your Life which was in my opinion the "brand" that loosely steered this ship. Matter of fact I think when I landed here back in August of 2005, I did a search for simple living your money or your life and ended out here and liked what I saw and jumped in.
The economy overall has changed a great deal since 2005, I think most would agree with this. For one thing, the treasuries that are espoused in YMOYL are paying sad amounts now, very sad. And inflation on everyday items is going up up up, I can see this in my trips to the store on a sadly regular basis now. So I'm thinking that many folks may have scrapped YMOYL or at least part of it.
Which brings me to my point. I'm wondering if we want to attract others to this site and have things more lively as they once were - maybe we need to think of having some kind of "brand" loosely guide this ship once again? I don't mean brand in the sense of Proctor and Gamble or Coca Cola or HP - I mean brand in the sense of some kind of guiding concept.
What do you'all think? Rob
How about the idea of instating a one-time sign-up fee/charge for new members?
What are you trying to accomplish, Mrs-M?
If we were a business trying to survive we would (or at least should) take a very close look at what our customers wanted vs. what we were providing. Businesses fail as often as not because they are selling the wrong thing or trying to sell the right thing to the wrong people. The same kind of analysis is valid here. If we figure out who we most strongly appeal to its easy to find them in the age of targeted media.It's a simple enough concept, but applying the logic and theory (I believe) will prove to be more of a challenge than thought.
gimmethesimplelife
4-30-13, 11:42am
OK, then, how about instating a one-time sign-up fee/charge for new members?This I just can't see working Mrs. M, as my feeling is that folks will find alternatives elsewhere online not charging such fees. Imagine if you will shopping for a cell phone - would you pay a $35 activation fee or would you shop around to avoid this fee AND get the lowest price on unlimited text and minutes after researching who has middle to low customer service complaints vs. the competition? Maybe not a good example overall but my point is - even we, if we wish to be more of a business - face some kind of online competition - in this case, other sites not charging such fees. Rob
How about the idea of instating a one-time sign-up fee/charge for new members?
To what end? Try as I might, I can't wrap my head around the value of restricting the site or charging folks for the pleasure of our company.
This I just can't see working Mrs. M, as my feeling is that folks will find alternatives elsewhere online not charging such fees. Imagine if you will shopping for a cell phone - would you pay a $35 activation fee or would you shop around to avoid this fee AND get the lowest price on unlimited text and minutes after researching who has middle to low customer service complaints vs. the competition? Maybe not a good example overall but my point is - even we, if we wish to be more of a business - face some kind of online competition - in this case, other sites not charging such fees. RobI say let them find alternatives. If I'm shopping for something unique and special, you have to pay for it, and the same should hold true for this site. JMTC. (Just my two cents).
To what end? Try as I might, I can't wrap my head around the value of restricting the site or charging folks for the pleasure of our company.Like yourself, I can't wrap my head around inviting members (by the hundreds) to enjoy our company, when we are fully aware that 90 (some odd) percent could care less about our home.
FWIW, I joined because I needed the input and valued the input about simple living and life issues in general.
I want everyone to have the same access as I did and still do.
treehugger
4-30-13, 12:01pm
FWIW, I joined because I needed the input and valued the input about simple living and life issues in general.
I want everyone to have the same access as I did and still do.
I definitely agree with this. I sincerely doubt that mandatory fees and required registration have ever led to more members or more participation in online communities. Let's keep this place welcoming, friendly and open.
Kara
Someone above posted about how the original site was tied to YMOL and that is why I found it. That was also the most appealing part of the old site. That is what drew people in, looking for a better way to work with your money to accomplish your own simpler goals.
This incarnation, for the most part, has morphed into an "Agony Aunt" column. It's so heavily weighted now with personal problems that it's hard to find anything relevant to YMOL.
Yes, I know, start the topic if that's what interests you. Got it.
Why not ask people what they want?
In my recent survey topic query I was very surprised that the topic I had predicted would be favored (anxiety & depression) ended up the least popular. Happiness was the favorite and I had figured that people here wouldn't have any interest in that.
It would be simple enough to create a survey to find out what people are looking for in an online community such as this one - or specifically in this one. If there are many lurkers/readers already, that means that the interest is there.
I posted this reply in the Goodbye thread but it seems relevant so I've copied it here:
I first found SL via an internet search after reading YMOYL and I was interested in the idea of FI. At that time, the site had a wonderful finance/investment section. Jonathan was great and the site felt very welcoming, supportive and friendly.
Some time ago (a couple of years maybe), I posted a question on the finance boards here and I received one response and a very harsh one at that. I was shocked at the level of disrespect in that response and was disappointed that no one from the moderating team came in to say that that behavior was not in line with this site's mission. I certainly will not post again in that forum (pretty sad considering that's the forum that brought me in) and I have limited my engagement a great deal. If that interaction had been my first foray into this site, I would not have returned. As it is, I had invited a friend to join the site so she could read the responses to my question as she was interested in that topic as well. I was embarrassed by the response I did get and apologized for wasting her time. I used to recommend this site all the time when I first found it. Not anymore.
I think it's sad that now that we are under the NRM umbrella (which I am happy about) the financial aspect of SL and the goal of FI has virtually disappeared from the site. It seems that many people have drifted over to the MMM site for lack of one here.
I avoid the PP forum. I don't know if that forum is sucking the energy from the rest of the site or not. What I do know is that I find the energy there very negative.
I've been a long time member of a frugal site. It started off free and had 400 people posting. It went 'paid' and has gone down to less than 30 regular posters.
SteveinMN
4-30-13, 12:24pm
would you pay a $35 activation fee or would you shop around to avoid this fee AND get the lowest price on unlimited text and minutes after researching who has middle to low customer service complaints vs. the competition?
If the product or service is good enough -- that is, has enough value to the buyer, they'll pay more for it. In your example, look at Verizon. Probably the most expensive wireless out there. But they have lots of coverage and spiffy new phones and people are attracted enough to that to pay for it. Meanwhile low-cost carriers like Virgin/Boost, MetroPCS, etc., see lots of customer churn.
That aside, though, I think there would have to be something special/exclusive offered here before people would pay to join. The Mr. Money Mustache forums seem pretty busy to me (at least they generate a fair amount of discussion) and they're free. I don't think we could differentiate ourselves enough to make pay-for-play work. Maybe if "subscribers" could be offered access to content not available to non-subscribers or on other free sites. But I have no idea what that would be outside of the now-defunct YMoYL connection. Not that it couldn't happen; I just don't see it happening in the current environment.
I've been a long time member of a frugal site. It started off free and had 400 people posting. It went 'paid' and has gone down to less than 30 regular posters.I don't understand why. If you have a credit card, you have to pay a charge/fee. If you drive a vehicle, you have to pay for insurance/maintenance/upkeep, etc. If you subscribe to a newspaper, you have to pay as you go.
Maybe it's time we restricted access to everyone (non-members/those not logged in), aside from the basics, as in one or two forums, just to give them a taste/sample of what we have to offer, then maybe, that in itself might promote members to post and get involved.
treehugger
4-30-13, 12:45pm
Maybe it's time we restricted access to everyone (non-members/those not logged in), aside from the basics, as in one or two forums, just to give them a taste/sample of what we have to offer, then maybe, that in itself might promote members to post and get involved.
Before making any drastic changes like this, can we vote on it?
Thank you,
Kara
ToomuchStuff
4-30-13, 12:46pm
Let me turn-the-table on your question and present another question of my own. Why should we allow free-access to anyone/everyone, when those who don't participate, also don't help support the cause of our home? What does that gain?
Free access is like trying on a pair of shoes, BEFORE YOU BUY. It allows you to see if they fit.
Someone above posted about how the original site was tied to YMOL and that is why I found it. That was also the most appealing part of the old site. That is what drew people in, looking for a better way to work with your money to accomplish your own simpler goals.
I found out about YMOYL online, and searching for it, I found the front page of the closed board, which led me here. I looked around for a bit before signing up, and there seemed to be a lot that fit. The bad part was the forum was extremely small, as it is relatively new, with all the old content gone. That in itself, IMHO, makes it harder to get the attention of possible members and contributors as there is less for Google search bots, to work with.
Why not ask people what they want?
In my recent survey topic query I was very surprised that the topic I had predicted would be favored (anxiety & depression) ended up the least popular. Happiness was the favorite and I had figured that people here wouldn't have any interest in that.
Yeah, people have no interest in being happy!?!>8) What kind of people do you hang around, seriously?:confused:
I think it's sad that now that we are under the NRM umbrella (which I am happy about) the financial aspect of SL and the goal of FI has virtually disappeared from the site. It seems that many people have drifted over to the MMM site for lack of one here.
I avoid the PP forum. I don't know if that forum is sucking the energy from the rest of the site or not. What I do know is that I find the energy there very negative.
I agree that the discussion that attracted me here, is mostly gone (especially in archived posts to learn from), and that is sad.
I also mostly avoid the political section. Too much bovine excrement, that doesn't change peoples minds, causes arguments, only gets real animated around election times (when everyone starts noticing politics) and causes hard feelings and loss of memberships (IMPE with other boards). If I want to fight/argue, I have family and religion for that.
But there is NO way to opt out or ignore that board (which is a function that is needed, IMHO).
Mrs. M. You want to go to a paid board, start one. See how fast it grows, watch you loose members (example, would Zoegirl stick around if she had to pay, with her situation?), quickly and being pay to read, most people aren't going to blindly pay for entrance. I think you posted this emotionally and without use of your head.
ToomuchStuff
4-30-13, 12:49pm
I don't understand why. If you have a credit card, you have to pay a charge/fee. If you drive a vehicle, you have to pay for insurance/maintenance/upkeep, etc. If you subscribe to a newspaper, you have to pay as you go.
Most people I know, use NO ANNUAL fee credit cards. Bad example.
Vehicle insurance, IS the LAW (and people still break it and only pay a fine, that is typically less then the insurance with their records)
Look at the newspapers, subscriptions are WAY down (to the point most the journalists are telling people do not go into the field), this is due in large part, to FREE ACCESS to news and media online.
Yeah, people have no interest in being happy!?!>8) What kind of people do you hang around, seriously?:confused:
.
:laff: I should have qualified that. I figured people here lead more intentional lives than the average person and that they already knew what made them happy and how to get it. (As opposed to the average person who thinks that money, things, etc, are the way to happiness.)
treehugger
4-30-13, 12:59pm
:laff: I should have qualified that. I figured people here lead more intentional lives than the average person and that they already knew what made them happy and how to get it. (As opposed to the average person who thinks that money, things, etc, are the way to happiness.)
I understood what you meant, watergoddess, and I actually found the results of that poll surprising, too. But hey, you never know until you ask.
Kara
Maybe it's time we restricted access to everyone (non-members/those not logged in), aside from the basics, as in one or two forums, just to give them a taste/sample of what we have to offer, then maybe, that in itself might promote members to post and get involved.
Thats exactly what the site I was talking about did and the response has been..."why should I pay for something based on only a limited view of what is available".
Mighty Frugal
4-30-13, 1:34pm
I've been on these boards since 2001-ish. And at the beginning it really helped mold the frugality in me. I told everyone I knew about it and gushed on and on!
I agree with many here that it seems to have lost its 'oomph' Or maybe it's ME who has lost 'oomph' I used to LOVE the frugality board and the 'money' (now personal finance) board. And I am to blame as much as anyone I point a finger to. I am hesitant to start threads because of the backlash people get sometimes when they do..or possibly worse is the crickets chirping..hello..nobody responds...
I wouldn't be a member of any online thread that enforces a payment- I like that this is voluntary. There is just too much out there for free (hint MMM) that doubtful people would pay.
Having written all that I am off to start some new threads! crickets be damned!:)
Too bad the forum will always be carried by a few (including NRM), because if it wasn't, then maybe we'd garner a few more realistic responses from members interested in seeing an improvement to our home.
ApatheticNoMore
4-30-13, 1:44pm
The thing about paying is the whole internet model is based on free. People expect it to be free. Nothing is really free and you pay for it by giving up your data but ...
A different whole internet model than that could be built, probably, a darknet type thing that respects privacy, kind of like organic foods provide an alternative to conventional, but I doubt you can just build one forum that charges when almost all of the internet is free. It seems even worse when you're pitching the pay to join idea to people looking to be frugal, look if I keep wasting money subscribing to forums how am I going to retire by 30 which I should have done already? :laff: Post as a topic "I'm cancelling my cable and SLF membership for the month to save money!"
ApatheticNoMore
4-30-13, 1:52pm
I wonder.....the old boards were tied into the concept of Your Money or Your Life which was in my opinion the "brand" that loosely steered this ship. Matter of fact I think when I landed here back in August of 2005, I did a search for simple living your money or your life and ended out here and liked what I saw and jumped in.
The economy overall has changed a great deal since 2005, I think most would agree with this. For one thing, the treasuries that are espoused in YMOYL are paying sad amounts now, very sad. And inflation on everyday items is going up up up, I can see this in my trips to the store on a sadly regular basis now. So I'm thinking that many folks may have scrapped YMOYL or at least part of it.
Which brings me to my point. I'm wondering if we want to attract others to this site and have things more lively as they once were - maybe we need to think of having some kind of "brand" loosely guide this ship once again? I don't mean brand in the sense of Proctor and Gamble or Coca Cola or HP - I mean brand in the sense of some kind of guiding concept.
I think that makes sense. I'd be happier in those old days too, when you could get decent returns on treasuries, even bank accounts. But they aren't coming back. And the plan these days is to buy real estate, but remember you have to get in at the bottom and only somewhere where it's super cheap, as the get rich plan? Ugh, I hates this modern world. But whatever that's Fed policy and it's not to my liking or within my control. Back to the actual topic, I think some kind of hook would help, but I don't know what. You would think frugality would be popular just because of the sheer hardship of these times, but if one is adopting frugality because of that, it's not exactly happy, so maybe that's not a great hook either.
I rarely post because I've received a few harsh, critical, judgemental replies when I did, and calling people 'lurkers' is (IMHO) an example of that. I still love it, but I rarely post because my posts have been ignored or criticised and I'm going through a really, really tough time.
treehugger
4-30-13, 2:02pm
I rarely post because I've received a few harsh, critical, judgemental replies when I did, and calling people 'lurkers' is (IMHO) an example of that. I still love it, but I rarely post because my posts have been ignored or criticised and I'm going through a really, really tough time.
Lurkers (which I don't see as having a negative connotation) and others who rarely post, please know this: most people here do not view you negatively. We are happy you read and even happier when you post once in awhile. Stick around! Don't let anyone chase you away, if you want to stay. And it's perfectly OK if you don't respond to this. :)
Inclusive not exclusive,
Kara
I appreciate that I can come here, and I have for many many years. I would (and have in the past) donated. I can no longer do that until my finances get out of pitiful, but honestly I wouldn't feel I had a chance to get out of pitiful without the support to cook from scratch, bring my lunch, garden, and keep working hard at what I do.
Thank you to those who are supporting us
The Storyteller
4-30-13, 3:31pm
It seems that many people have drifted over to the MMM site for lack of one here.
MMM? What's that?
The Storyteller
4-30-13, 3:41pm
I agree with many here that it seems to have lost its 'oomph'
Many predicted just that when it migrated over here. In fact, some of us didn't think it would survive at all. But it seems to puttering along so far.
Mighty Frugal
4-30-13, 3:42pm
MMM? What's that?
Mr. Money Mustache
I'm happy to donate, but would not pay a mandatory fee to join. The trend is toward more content for free (on the internet), not less. We should remain a part of that.
A lot of interesting points have been brought up in this thread...
The law of diminishing returns seems to have settled in with some of the more veteran members. When we first start living simply there are a lot of big steps we can take to make a big difference but after time it is harder and harder to find the big gains. The board probably does start to lose some members because of it.
gimmethesimplelife does bring up a good point in that we do not seem to have a specific catch to bring in new members and some are comparing this forum to MMM and wondering how we could be more popular as is MMM. We literally do not have any description other than the title of "Simple Living Forums," no tagline whatsoever.
Is it possible to change this site to be a blog with the forums? Quite a few members posted about being willing to contribute to a book on simple living, why not make that book a community written blog with different members contributing.
The MMM is a kind of cult of personality and site is supported by advertisers, also, which we do not have. I'm not sure members would agree with us competing directly with MMM. It's more about what it takes to retire early whereas we have our own niche in simple living.
Lurkers (which I don't see as having a negative connotation) and others who rarely post, please know this: most people here do not view you negatively. We are happy you read and even happier when you post once in awhile. Stick around! Don't let anyone chase you away, if you want to stay. And it's perfectly OK if you don't respond to this. :)
Inclusive not exclusive,
Kara
+1 Well said, Kara
There was a thread several months ago about how to improve the forum to attract new members and a lot of ideas were discussed. My opinion at the time was that the forum needs a face lift to stream line and update the topics. For new people visiting the discussions I can easily see where someone might assume it is a free site. I would think there would be more visible ways to let folks know that it is basically a non-profit that depends on donations.
I have been a consistent donor to the forums in both their old and new incarnations and I STRONGLY oppose any attempt to institute mandatory fees. I am more than happy to subsidize the service for those who are struggling financially. I think it is great when those on a tight budget contribute, hence my periodic "donor challenge" efforts which are couched in terms of numbers of donations, not amount, but I would never, ever want to force someone to pay for the privilege of being here. I feel so strongly about this that if a fee-for-service approach is instituted I would leave.
I miss the active discussions we used to have helping people tweak their budgets. I think the fact that those have dwindled is indeed due to the lack of a significant new membership here. Most of the old-timers have already done the basic YMOYL steps and have a pretty good sense of how their spending aligns with their values. The only time such questions come up for us are when we are contemplating a major change -- like our recent issue with funding private school for the kids, or the quesitons others have had recently about contemplating a move or a job change. The other issue that comes up is that many of us have been around so long and are so familiar with everyone's positions on different things that it is pretty easy to predict what the response is going to be to any given question. So, to use my private school question as an example, part of the reason I posted about that here was that I was pretty sure that people would be supportive, as it is something that we can afford (barely) and is in keeping with our values. I haven't dared to post about that issue on the MMM forums (which I also enjoy) because I know I'll get slapped pretty hard upside the head by people over there, regardless of my justifications!
I think one of the things that makes it harder for this forum to gain traction in comparison to the others where I am active (MMM and the ER.org forums) is that there is no really clear organizing philosphy. YMOYL is definitely dated, especially the investment advice, and doesn't have the kind of pull or attraction it once had. MMM has a very personal, compelling story and attitude that draws many in (but puts many off). ER.org and earlyretirementextreme draw people who are focused on early retirement. In comparison to those forums, this one is more diffuse, and perhaps that makes it harder to bring in new members.
I like the idea of a blog connected to the forum, with contributions from different members.
lhamo, I occasionally visit Get Rich Slowly due to your praising of it. I like the blog articles and commentary afterwards.
Blog format DOES provide a jumping off point for discussion. But then, someone has to write those articles!
There is nothing wrong with lurking! I like lurkers!!! It always amazes me when a long time lurker comes out to make a comment, that is cool!
I just did a light sample of new registrants to this website over the same period of April in 2012 and 2013. I wanted to see if the rate of participation had dropped.
In 2012 56% of new registrants never logged in this website after registering.
In 2013 71% of new registrants never logged in this website after registering.
It may be that participation among new registrations is dropping, but it may also be that I'm letting more spammers through. Spammers will not add valuable content to our discussions:laff:
In the end, I welcome REAL people with an interest in simple living who registered for this website, glad that you are here!
I agree that if the place went fee-based, I'd be out. I don't pay fees for any websites right now, though in the past i did donate to a few. End of the day, I just don't have it in my budget to pay for web sites when there are alternative (free) content sites available.
beyond this, I'm not sure what you all feel this board is for . . . I mean, for me, it's been really nice and it's a good read. I enjoy participating.
I don't know if I'm really interested in tweaking people's budget. I'm more interested in how people live, what they think, and how they think about how they live and what they think. :) I'm more interested in related to 'birds of a feather' -- but I just assume that we are that, or something.
hmm.
I found it striking that Mrs_M talks about the forum as "our home," and it makes sense that a home would be more private than...well, a forum.
For me, this board is a forum - I come here to read and occasionally talk about simple living and the like. (FWIW: since 2002, low-volume poster, sporadic donor.) Measures to make it more homey (restricting access, paywall) don't appeal to me: they would reduce how much there is to read. I like the idea of using a blog to spark conversations - perhaps something like a photoblog or roundup of "simple links of the week" or something? I'd be interested in helping with something like that.
A blog to spark conversation? http://ic.hobh.org/forums/images/smilies/lol%20%282%29.gif
I haven't crunched the numbers in order to establish a percentage of those who fail to get involved with daily, monthly, or even yearly activity on the forum, but my guess is, creating a blog will result in the same statistics where seeing now, where only a few (handful) entertain the idea of posting their blogs, while the other 97% sit back and lurk and peruse.
At any rate, the blog idea is my daily laugh of the day!
A blog to spark conversation? http://ic.hobh.org/forums/images/smilies/lol%20%282%29.gif
I haven't crunched the numbers in order to establish a percentage of those who fail to get involved with daily, monthly, or even yearly activity on the forum, but my guess is, creating a blog will result in the same statistics where seeing now, where only a few (handful) entertain the idea of posting their blogs, while the other 97% sit back and lurk and peruse.
At any rate, the blog idea is my daily laugh of the day!
This rude response is unnecessary.............
Nothing rude about it... but yes... sometimes the truth hurts, doesn't it, Libby?
Gingerella72
5-1-13, 1:04pm
As a long time member and mostly lurker, my thoughts.....
This forum has morphed into a "social club" where there are cliques, friends, enemies, etc. The topics posted are things what we're all dealing with in our every day lives. Things we find funny, things we find sad, questions on how to deal with a situation. It is like a big gathering of people who are hanging out over coffee, talking about life. It is a conversation forum. Most of us have been here for years and the ideals of simple living are things we no longer need to discuss, because it's just part of who we are. There is nothing new to bring to the table.
Add to that, message boards of this kind are dying left and right on the internet because social media (facebook, twitter) have become the preferred methods of communication, and not just for young people. Back when this message board was begun, there weren't many other websites offering this type of information. Now, there are thousands of blogs and websites that are of the same ilk.
Requiring a fee to read conversation is ridiculous, and would be the death knell of this forum. If you want to turn it into a private elite club that excludes everyone (because trust me, NO ONE would pay to join something like this), then Mrs. M I suggest you go elsewhere and start up a private message board of your own and see how that goes. Exclusion and elitism don't really embody the concepts of simple living to me.
A little story that actually IS relevant...bear with me, please....
I have just been privileged to join our local community garden. Last week I went to orientation for new members. The woman providing the orientation pointed out that last year, the garden had the issue of people who were not members coming in to the site (it is on a church property) and taking vegetables. The garden community had figured out how to stop that.
They didn't make nasty signs saying "non-members keep out" or "don't steal our vegetables." They didn't establish a locking system for the fence. No, they were vastly more creative than that.
They have established "community beds" and invite people to choose their vegetables from those beds. Garden members have all agreed to contribute seeds, seedlings, and labour to make those beds productive. And there is the hope that people who are eating from the community beds will ultimately come in and garden actively. What a model!
Have something of value, make it available to people and make it clear that it costs money to provide, and invite people (regularly) to participate in both activity and to donate. I have donated more and more consistently to this version of the forums because it is so easy to do....donating to the old forum was time consuming and I rarely even thought of it. Here, the donate button reminds me.
I hope we'll continue here. I agree that we are not doing a lot of hardcore budget-tweaking and frugality zealotry any more but I do appreciate a lot of what goes on here.
They have established "community beds" and invite people to choose their vegetables from those beds. Garden members have all agreed to contribute seeds, seedlings, and labour to make those beds productive. And there is the hope that people who are eating from the community beds will ultimately come in and garden actively. What a model!
That is a very elegant solution to an annoying problem. Thanks for sharing that with us.
Kara
I agree with a poster (Dhiana, I think?) who said earlier that one of the problems is that there is no clear message stating what this site is dedicated to. There is no description or mission type message or any clear guidelines for the site.
When I found the site you had to become a member in order to read the posts and when you signed up I think the site's purpose and guidelines were part of the registration process. Somehow I understood that there were boundaries on behavior. Things like respect, etc. I joined because I was interested in what this site had to offer, both in terms of content and community principles.
I think maybe this what Mrs. M is searching for in her quest: a sense of commitment and intention from members. I don't think a fee would provide it though. I'm not really sure what would.
I haven't crunched the numbers in order to establish a percentage of those who fail to get involved with daily, monthly, or even yearly activity on the forum, but my guess is, creating a blog will result in the same statistics where seeing now, where only a few (handful) entertain the idea of posting their blogs, while the other 97% sit back and lurk and peruse.
I think a small percentage of active members vs. a large group that either lurks or is inactive after registration is going to be the rule in any such context. I'm not sure why it matters that a percentage of the active members goes up. If that's really the goal you could cause memberships to automatically terminate if the member hasn't logged in in the past year or something similar, but as far as I know it costs nothing to carry the inactive memberships on the member rolls so why go to the trouble of cleaning them out? That kind of thing in cyber space just isn't the same as decluttering your garage.
You got it, Watergoddess!!! Thank you! :) Yes, commitment and intention.
Gregg. It's obvious to me there is no solution, that's apparent by the countless defunct discussions we've had Re:, but who knows, maybe in the future the carpet will be yanked out from under us, resulting in more members taking a more serious look at what our options are in relation to keeping this place alive, or preparing it for burial.
In the meantime, as difficult as it is for me to say, it makes for a challenging place to remain involved with, that is with any enthusiasm.
Reading all 7 pages of this thread was challenging.We just discussed this a few months ago.
Mrs-M I don't agree with your position at all,but to demonstrate my compassion for everyone here (lurkers included) will offer the following suggestion to help save our beloved boards. Keep the boards as they are and bring back live chat as a subscriber added service. Add an occasional live chat interview with an author or someone else of SL importance.
A blog to spark conversation? http://ic.hobh.org/forums/images/smilies/lol%20%282%29.gif
At any rate, the blog idea is my daily laugh of the day!
Wow. Being laughed at is...not what I expect here. Not cool.
Anyway. There used to be a periodic newsletter associated with the forum; I don't know to what extent it drove traffic here, but it probably didn't hurt. A blog seemed to me like a less-intensive version of that. (With perhaps less writing. BTW, the original suggestion was made up-thread, not actually my idea!)
I also agree with the comments upthread about having been around so long, I don't have a whole lot to talk about. Defining what it is we do here exactly would be something to talk (argue!) about, for sure!
Keep the boards as they are and bring back live chat as a subscriber added service. Add an occasional live chat interview with an author or someone else of SL importance.Just in care you missed Alan's, submitted 1st Quarter Financial results, here's the thread (http://www.simplelivingforum.net/showthread.php?8041-Forum-Financial-Update-1st-Qtr-2013).
Extras, such as the kind you're suggesting, I would think, would come with an additional attached premium, something the 1st Quarter results seemly don't sustain, unless I'm reading things wrong.
Last sentence quote from entry. "If I were forecasting an annual budget for the site, I'd shoot for $750 to $1000 just to keep everything running and perhaps schedule an upgrade every few years".
Just, being the key word, and so if one were to average out the years monies on the scale set by the results of this years 1st Quarter, the figures tell me we'd be some $530 short of the minimum required amount to just keep everything running and perhaps see a scheduled upgrade once, in a several year span.
As a long time member and mostly lurker, my thoughts.....
This forum has morphed into a "social club" where there are cliques, friends, enemies, etc. The topics posted are things what we're all dealing with in our every day lives. Things we find funny, things we find sad, questions on how to deal with a situation. It is like a big gathering of people who are hanging out over coffee, talking about life. It is a conversation forum. Most of us have been here for years and the ideals of simple living are things we no longer need to discuss, because it's just part of who we are. There is nothing new to bring to the table.
This hit the nail on the head from my perspective. Not that I don't enjoy being a part of the coffee bunch, but I think these are exactly the reasons new members are scarce.
Originally posted by Cx3.
Just in care you missed Alan's, submitted 1st Quarter Financial results, here's the thread (http://www.simplelivingforum.net/showthread.php?8041-Forum-Financial-Update-1st-Qtr-2013).
Extras, such as the kind you're suggesting, I would think, would come with an additional attached premium, something the 1st Quarter results seemly don't sustain, unless I'm reading things wrong.
Last sentence quote from entry. "If I were forecasting an annual budget for the site, I'd shoot for $750 to $1000 just to keep everything running and perhaps schedule an upgrade every few years".
Just, being the key word, and so if one were to average out the years monies on the scale set by the results of this years 1st Quarter, the figures tell me we'd be some $530 short of the minimum required amount to just keep everything running and perhaps see a scheduled upgrade once, in a several year span.
Mrs M., extras are doable. Finances are not the issue, it's acceptance by the membership. Based upon your earlier comments, I'm guessing you don't. Just please be aware, donations to date are not an issue and should not be used as reasoning for this entire thread.
Originally Posted by Gingerella72
As a long time member and mostly lurker, my thoughts.....
This forum has morphed into a "social club" where there are cliques, friends, enemies, etc. The topics posted are things what we're all dealing with in our every day lives. Things we find funny, things we find sad, questions on how to deal with a situation. It is like a big gathering of people who are hanging out over coffee, talking about life. It is a conversation forum. Most of us have been here for years and the ideals of simple living are things we no longer need to discuss, because it's just part of who we are. There is nothing new to bring to the table.
Originally posted by Rogar.
This hit the nail on the head from my perspective. Not that I don't enjoy being a part of the coffee bunch, but I think these are exactly the reasons new members are scarce.What I see is, is a pull-back, where mass numbers of members are sitting back and allowing a handful to provide the entertainment. It's become much too easy IMO.
On the old site, Dave, had a thermometer, and when that thermometer dipped to dangerously low levels, it was made clear to the membership that, "here it is folks, unless we pull-up our socks and get the numbers up, the site will shut down".
Now, we're coddled under the shield of the NRF, and because of the fact, I get the impression a few too many people are enjoying a free-ride. Nothing to loose... Someone else will pick-up the tab...
With the thermometer idea, it provided incentive to all those who were members to get involved and stay involved. It essentially encouraged people/members to support the site, and because there was support (financial and participation), there was a following. With the current new way, incentive is out the door. AND... with the old site, because of the system in place, it maintained a following of people WHO WANTED TO BE THERE. PEOPLE WHO WERE ACTUALLY INTERESTED IN BEING THERE. That's the difference.
Like handing a 16 year old a set of car keys to a brand new vehicle, and telling them, "here sweetie, Happy Birthday"! Easy come, easy go... and because no effort was needed to acquire, the vehicle quickly deteriorates to shambles in no time, and teaches the 16 year old nothing. But, turn the tables on that same 16 year old and make them work for it, now... things quickly change.
Gregg. It's obvious to me there is no solution...
Frankly Mrs-M, I think the reason there is no solution is because there isn't a problem to begin with.
It strikes me that a simple discussion is turning into a bashing that is totally unnecessary.
Whatever happened to simple gratitude for what is good and helpful? A number have stated that they like the forums the way that they are. IMO, there is enough flexibility in the format for whatever path you wish to explore.
I truly hope that it is about 5 years before we go through another of these navel gazing threads that accomplish very little that is positive.
Frankly Mrs-M, I think the reason there is no solution is because there isn't a problem to begin with.Ah yes, the good old naive card... Don't win many rounds with it, but it's always fun pulling it out and flashing it!
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj184/befje/smileys%203/bf-pokerhand.gif
Mrs. M. as others have suggested, it is time to take a deep breath and trust that all forum participants have equal input and value to the forums. You are not being your usual self, at all.
It strikes me that a simple discussion is turning into a bashing that is totally unnecessary.
Whatever happened to simple gratitude for what is good and helpful? A number have stated that they like the forums the way that they are. IMO, there is enough flexibility in the format for whatever path you wish to explore.
I truly hope that it is about 5 years before we go through another of these navel gazing threads that accomplish very little that is positive.
As one of the members who enjoys our little coffee club I say... +1
I do seem to recall that there is an element of seasonality to posting activity (someone with reporting abilities will know for sure if this is true). It has seemed to me that when the weather gets really nice, activity subsides because presumably people are enjoying the great outdoors, which is not a bad thing.
Frankly Mrs-M, I think the reason there is no solution is because there isn't a problem to begin with.
Well, I think that there is somewhat of a problem because donations in the first quarter haven't met first quarter annualized expenses. I would also like to see more new people come, stick around and post or actively lurk. Lurkers are readers, they read our posts, they are our audience!
I haven't read every inch of this thread, but want to contribute.
To me coming here is like when the trolley on Mr. Rogers would go through the tunnel to pretend land.
........ what's happening with Tradd's crazy, sleepy co-worker ..... what super cool Anvil picture has Bae posted lately ..... what's got Peggy & Alan in another spirited discussion this week .....
I am dealing with some serious ca-ca in my life and I come here to get away from it all and relax a little.
Alan, I very much like it when you post the quarterly numbers - thank you.
I put some cash (not much because we're fairly strapped now) in an envelope and mail it in. Done.
Not the most proper way, but it works for me.
I appreciate it when we start up silly conversation, serious conversation --- any conversations. I'm a pretty 'good talker' IRL.
Right now I am so danged busy with the kids that I can't really follow the ins & outs of a thread to effectively participate.
I do request that we are all polite to each other.
We all seem to have decent home-training, so let's just step it up in the self-moderation department. I think all of us have a libertarian seed or two in our make up or else we wouldn't be into going against the grain.
We can disagree, we can argue our point, we can debate, we can flat out argue -
Edit to Add - I took out the "I love it all!" because I actually don't like it when we 'flat out argue', although sometimes necessary, it makes me feel uncomfortable and I know that some people get their feelings hurt which is unfortunate.
I like that we are talking about donations - It really didn't get on my radar screen until just recently actually.
I get value from this place, so I am happy to send in when I am able.
I donated online last night.
Gingerella72
5-2-13, 11:54am
Frankly Mrs-M, I think the reason there is no solution is because there isn't a problem to begin with.
Agreed. I pointed out why I thought traffic and membership is down. Changing times. But to say that it is a huge problem that might 'close down the site' is a little dramatic. And to further bash the 'lurkers' for not 'participating' is just rehashing an old complaint ad nauseum. If I don't have anything to say or contribute, I don't, simple as that. If I do, I do. If I'm not meeting some quota for discussion that some seem to think there is, that's their problem, not mine. Because that is what the real issue is, right? Alan has said that the number of donations is a non-issue, so it has to be the quantity/quality of discussion that is at the heart of this, IMO.
I get a lot of value from these boards even though I have found, and been living, my version of the simple life for awhile now. I still learn new things and like to hear about other's journeys. I think it's important to keep the forums free and available to anyone who wants to come here whether to post or just read. I would not be here if there was a fee or if there was a requirement to participate in a certain number of forums or post a certain number of posts to be part of this forum. I think require ring either of those - or both together - would be the death of these forums. I also enjoy the PP forum even when it gets heated. Yes there can be snarky personal comments when there doesn't Ned to be but overall I is pretty tame and non offensive IMHO.
As for why participation is down - well as others have said, there are now many forms of social media that people are involved in so that is probably one big reason. Another may be that this forum use to have a much more diverse group of people with a diverse interest in many different types of simple living. Now we have morphed into a more DIY, back to the land, everything by hand frugal board. The ER and FI types who were looking at less traditional ways of living are gone now. The full time RVers, boat livers, unusual lifestyle people aren't really interested in many of the more home and gardening and DIY topics we now discuss. I know I like hearing about those with lives like Humboldt Girl, Loose chickens, Laura J, and Rob but we talk more about a tradition mainstream things here for the most part.
The Storyteller
5-4-13, 1:29pm
I don't have a lot to add that would be at all productive, but I do want to question a couple of assertions about YMOYL.
I don't agree that it lacks relevance. Sure, the investment strategy (as opposed to the concept of investing in general) is certainly outdated, but I can't think of anything else in the book that is. Paying off debt, avoiding our Gazingus Pins, maximizing your work years, living below your means, retire early to do what you really want to do in life, equating money with life energy... what is out of date about any of that?
I never paid much attention to his specific investment advice, anyway, and I'm not quite the adherent to the plan that others may be, but I don't see why it isn't a perfectly good foundation for this site. Isn't New Road Foundation an outgrowth of YMOYL?
I came to the forum because YMOYL was a big interest of mine. We used the concept and education of that book and others to be successful and hoped to find like minded people. I only post when I have something to say that would be 1) valuable to someone, I hope and 2) not duplicated by other posters. I was sad when the forum changed and many of the original posters were no longer here.
I would never have become familiar with the site if there was payment demanded for entry, too much info requested for entry, constant posting needed to be useful to others, etc. I have learned a lot and most of it is that we all are so very different.
ps: I try never to read the Public Policy forum. My skin is not thick enough.
Ok, I did not know anything about donations. I only stop by the board and never even hit any of the others parts of the board untill I skimmed this post. I saw a donation area.
Ah yes, the good old naive card... Don't win many rounds with it, but it's always fun pulling it out and flashing it!
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj184/befje/smileys%203/bf-pokerhand.gif
Well, I'll speak up. I've been a member of this site for about 7 years now. However I never came to the site as a place of resource. I was never here because of YOML. I came here for a shared perspective. So, not using the site as a resource but only using the forum, this entire topic makes me feel vaguely unwelcome for not contributing cash. I wish you well and no harm, but contributing cash would not contribute to my own well being. It's a great place to come and talk to other frugal lifestyle folk. It's not the old place to be sure. If I'm contributing money it's only to have access to a discussion forum I frequent occasionally.
I've been reading this thread off and on over the last day or so. As of this post of mine, there were 2635 views to this thread alone. (I guess my post should make it 2636). If that isn't an indication that people are participating, what is? Solely posting? If reading isn't considered participating, why post the number of views to a thread in the first place?
rosarugosa
5-5-13, 10:59am
There's one thing that concerns me about this conversation. We have some very active members who just aren't in a financial position to make donations, and I would hate for them to feel unwelcome. Especially since they often have a lot to offer on the topic of simple living. Some folks contribute by way of participation; there is more than one way to enrich the forums.
Except to the admin who actually has to process a donation the who-gave-what information is anonymous. None of us know who did or didn't donate and, for those who did, how much. That makes us all even. As Alan has said and shown, it doesn't take a tremendous amount of money to keep these forums up and running and there are enough folks here who find value in them and are in a position to donate that goals will be met. Of course it would be helpful if anyone who is on the fence could see their way to making a financial contribution, but you won't get any brownie points or a gold star by your name for it. I also think everyone here realizes contributing ideas is every bit as important as contributing money. That's why we're here, after all.
As of this post of mine, there were 2635 views to this thread alone. (I guess my post should make it 2636). If that isn't an indication that people are participating, what is? Solely posting?
"Views" does not necessarily equal reading posts and/or even considering what was read. It just means someone clicked on the thread. Some Web forum software uses the view count to identify "hot" topics and promote "what everyone is talking about". But in other forums I've seen threads with dozens of views and maybe one response. Not that I think we're served by a bunch of "me, too" or "+1" posts made just to indicate people are reading and responding; that just would be a great example of getting what you measure.
A successful Web forum has to have a mix of participation. I think we're here for an exchange of ideas or information or even perspective. At least I am. I try to participate in threads which interest me. Sometimes it's with a question or information; sometimes it's with a perspective. I also contribute financially. I know that not everyone can do both. But I would hope that those who cannot contribute financially would participate in the forum and that those who like to drop in only every once in a while remember that there are expenses to running the place so it's here when they choose to visit. One of the benefits of making the expenses known more publicly is that those of us who really appreciate having the forum available and have the financial wherewithal can contribute more than their "share" of the expenses and carry those who cannot contribute right now. "Just looking" is window shopping, and there's nothing wrong with that unless everyone is window shopping and assuming that other folks are buying, either in their time or their money.
"Views" does not necessarily equal reading posts and/or even considering what was read. It just means someone clicked on the thread. Some Web forum software uses the view count to identify "hot" topics and promote "what everyone is talking about". But in other forums I've seen threads with dozens of views and maybe one response. Not that I think we're served by a bunch of "me, too" or "+1" posts made just to indicate people are reading and responding; that just would be a great example of getting what you measure.
I agree with what you say above... to a degree. Simply because it really seems unlikely and I don't believe that - out of over 2000 views - no one has been reading the thread other than those who have actually posted. If participation is only going to be counted as those who actually write a post, then, yes, maybe this forum is dying a slow death. Personally, I don't believe that. However, if the forum starts charging for membership - I actually predict a rather quick death.
I agree with your second paragraph. I pop in when time alots... not often, but as often as I can. I'm also somewhat of a cautious poster when it comes to personal information. I admit I have shared more - over time - on this forum than I have on the very few others that I frequent. That said, I know that I don't post nearly as often as others who frequent these forums. But that's just me. If that doesn't fit in with the "type" of member the forum is seeking, just say so and I can bid my farewells.
I think we're happy to have you, Happystuff. Different people use/enjoy the forum in different ways.
Let me turn-the-table on your question and present another question of my own. Why should we allow free-access to anyone/everyone, when those who don't participate, also don't help support the cause of our home? What does that gain?
In yet another turn of the tables, I would ask, do you think this forum would survive? If you charged today, would it be here two years from now? What is the site "selling" that would keep it alive? I know that I for one, only came here because I could peruse it first. Anytime I try and explore a site/forum that doesn't, they've lost me. Do you expect this forum to fold soon?
iris lilies
5-5-13, 8:33pm
I agree with what you say above... to a degree. Simply because it really seems unlikely and I don't believe that - out of over 2000 views - no one has been reading the thread other than those who have actually posted. If participation is only going to be counted as those who actually write a post, then, yes, maybe this forum is dying a slow death. Personally, I don't believe that. However, if the forum starts charging for membership - I actually predict a rather quick death.
I agree with your second paragraph. I pop in when time alots... not often, but as often as I can. I'm also somewhat of a cautious poster when it comes to personal information. I admit I have shared more - over time - on this forum than I have on the very few others that I frequent. That said, I know that I don't post nearly as often as others who frequent these forums. But that's just me. If that doesn't fit in with the "type" of member the forum is seeking, just say so and I can bid my farewells.
happystuff--lurkers, infrequent posters, frequent posters--it's all good!
Tiam: I wouldn't have stuck around either, if I had to pay to participate. And I didn't start making donations until I had been here for awhile and decided it was important enough to me that I wanted to contribute.
I agree with your second paragraph. I pop in when time alots... not often, but as often as I can. I'm also somewhat of a cautious poster when it comes to personal information. I admit I have shared more - over time - on this forum than I have on the very few others that I frequent. That said, I know that I don't post nearly as often as others who frequent these forums. But that's just me. If that doesn't fit in with the "type" of member the forum is seeking, just say so and I can bid my farewells.
I have zero say in who can be a member here (or anywhere else, FTM). I'm happy to have a diversity of viewpoints and experiences.
One of the points I don't believe I have seen made yet re: this forum is that the Pareto Principle holds as well here as it does in most any other assemblage of people. In many organizations, the same 20% of the group is responsible for 80% of what happens in the group. In one group to which I belonged (before leaving work meant I needed to leave it as well), the same 5-6 people took turns as Club Officers, sometimes for years at a time; the other 20+ people in the group rarely took on that work (or the work of subcommitees, etc.). Us 5 or 6 got pretty burned out. It is a risk that occurs in any organization in which contribution is not balanced. I do not believe that SLF is yet at that point, however.
treehugger
5-6-13, 11:41am
That said, I know that I don't post nearly as often as others who frequent these forums. But that's just me. If that doesn't fit in with the "type" of member the forum is seeking, just say so and I can bid my farewells.
There is only one member here who has been expressing her opinion that readers ("lurkers") and infrequent posters are not welcome, and many more people (myself included) who have posted that all members (readers, lurkers, occasional posters, frequent posters) are welcome. So, there's the math for you! :)
Kara
Editing to add that I just realized that member isn't a member any more. So, I highly doubt we will see such strong chastisement of lurkers in the future. Lurk away! *waving*
There is only one member here who has been expressing her opinion that readers ("lurkers") and infrequent posters are not welcome, and many more people (myself included) who have posted that all members (readers, lurkers, occasional posters, frequent posters) are welcome. So, there's the math for you! :)
Kara
+1 well said.
Editing to add that I just realized that member isn't a member any more.
Ah - Mrs-M decided to move on over this?
treehugger
5-6-13, 11:56am
Ah - Mrs-M decided to move on over this?
I don't know the reason. I only just noticed that she is now "Guest."
Kara
Mrs-M has decided, at least for now, to go in a different direction. Only time will tell if this is a simple hiatus or a permanent move.
That's a shame. I'm still perplexed over all the drama.
Hi Guys - what in god's green earth has happened?
So..... we've aired out the sheets and put them out on the line to dry with the beautiful laundry pins Mrs. M posted pictures of a year or so ago.
Everyone, please, don't leave over these discussions.
I value each and every person on the boards here and need your posts or need you to read as I blather on.
We disagree - so what - I mean what else is new?
Mrs. M - Get yourself back here right this second little lady. (i mean that in the most loving way possible). I miss you.
I think you have my personal email address, so please email me. I haven't checked my Personal Mail Page here in ages, but I will miss you dreadfully if you go.
On the other hand if you do feel the need for a break, I completely understand and have appreciated your friendship here.
That's a shame. I'm still perplexed over all the drama.
+1
I'm still perplexed over all the drama.
Me too.
I'm still perplexed over all the drama.
Meeee toooo! I just read all the comments here... IMHO, this entire stream qualifies as a kerfuffle. Oh snap, I have been dying to use that word! All comments were interesting, and I have appreciated most the "there's no problem here" reflections.
To sum it all up, the folks who are here, are here. The folks who have something to say, say it. The folks who wish to depart, depart. The themes that emerge and take hold are the ones that get air time, the rest fade away. Just like an open marketplace. Gosh, we're all grown-ups. We're doing ok financially. There is a place to make freewill donations. The forum is open to all. In Seattle, the sun is out, and life is good. I hope it is for you as well...
At first it seemed like there was an elephant in the room. Then there was (to me) obviously an elephant in the room. The elephant took up so much of the room that now the room felt like it belonged to the elephant. I felt better about entering the room when there was more balance among "the zoo".
If there are 10 different posts but they are all started by an elephant, the elephant has a huge investment in the floor. In the past when asked, I said honestly for me, there was a lack of variety. That wasn't received well.
I enjoy the views of everybody here. I don't post that often because I haven't really had anything new to say in a long time but I very much enjoy following those at the beginning of their journey.
Well I'm a little sad. Sad because Mrs M felt she had to leave. I enjoyed her here as a member, as I enjoy almost all of the posters here. Even when there's a topic that holds no interest to me, I'm still glad people have created a community of sorts and enjoy discussion on that topic. I'm just not into diapers, and diaper pins and rubber pants and all that, but it was still amusing for me to watch all the conversation about that. I don't hang my laundry out, but still enjoyed that. And I still have no idea what the salad spinner thread was all about since I didn't follow it.
... And I still have no idea what the salad spinner thread was all about since I didn't follow it.
And you call yourself an SL forums member! heretic!
hahahahahah:)
IMHO, this entire stream qualifies as a kerfuffle. Oh snap, I have been dying to use that word!
Applauding redfox for perfect usage of the word "kerfuffle" ! :D
And you call yourself an SL forums member! heretic!
hahahahahah:)
srsly. Drum him/her out. Salad spinner is the new litmus test. LOL!
And I still have no idea what the salad spinner thread was all about since I didn't follow it.
Its a long and sordid history, but basically you can wash your lettuce the old fashioned way or you can go underground. Join the resistance herbgeek! (Running back to the shadows...)
How about the idea of instating a one-time sign-up fee/charge for new members?I certainly would never have paid a fee to join. My purpose in coming here was to find less expensive ways to do things, not to get rid of all that pesky extra money (not).
I say let them find alternatives. If I'm shopping for something unique and special, you have to pay for it, and the same should hold true for this site. JMTC. (Just my two cents).
There are many frugal sites, this one is very nice but not unique. I also like About.com's frugal living discussion boards. And of course one can always google any specific thing one wants information about. It may even have been a google search that first brought me here years ago.
I too am sad to see Mrs M leave and hope she comes back as she has added so much to these forums. I know that on this thread, and a similar one on the PP forum, some misunderstood some of her comments - which I took as joking with funny icons - as anger and made sort of rude comments back at her. I don't think they were meant that way. Also some misunderstood her use of the term "our home" - which I took to mean our community - a place for like minded people to share their thoughts and experiences. And I think she meant that, like any community, it take members to participate to make it a great and vibrant place and not just a few. That is what I felt she meant rather than an exclusionary place. In any case, I hope she comes back soon as she, and all her wonderful input, will be missed.
This rude response is unnecessary............. +1
I haven't paid much attention to all this hub-bub and just dropped in only to notice Mrs. M. may be leaving. Shock and dismay! Mrs. M's posts and contributions were huge in making this a fun place to visit. She has a unique and good family oriented perspective and I am under the impression that she truly enjoys the simple life. A good plus to most everyone here to enjoy that perspective. Plus, her historic reminisces were a light spot to get through serious matters and discussions. If you are listening Mrs. M., I will miss that. In my opinion, what ever all this is about really isn't all that important in the big scheme of things and I hope you will give it a rest and return.
Meeee toooo! I just read all the comments here... IMHO, this entire stream qualifies as a kerfuffle. Oh snap, I have been dying to use that word!
Just laughed out loud on that one, redfox! The kerfuffle reference, and use of the word snap which my son uses all the time. That was funny!
On a less funny note, I am bummed about Mrs-M. I know none of us wished to offend her, and I hope she knows that. I hope she returns!
I noticed Mrs-M listed as "Guest" the other day and wondered what the heck went on (I haven't been here on the forums for a few weeks.) I read this thread and now see what happened, but I truly hope Mrs-M will be back. I enjoyed her posts immensely!
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