OK I admit it.....

[gimmethesimplelife]

At this moment in time, I am not very pleased with Obama. It seems as if the message is coming to him loud and clear from a number of sources and directions - US citizens, other countries, some members of Congress, Russia, China.....don't invade Syria. I respect Obama for some of the bones he has thrown to the poor which I won't get into here as I posted about this many times, BUT BUT BUT, I am less than pleased that Obama seems to have some ego going too as he just won't listen.....I still support him for reasons I have listed before, BUT in this one area I am two thumbs down on Obama. And I'm hoping and hoping and hoping that between September 8th and September 12th or so there is no strike on Syria.

Why these dates? I am going down to Mexico to have another ultrasound done to see if the alternative medicine I have been taking to shrink my gallstones has worked or not - It would be nice to avoid surgery. I am also getting another crown done and having my teeth cleaned. So anyway, if there are strikes I am thinking it will be a time consuming pain to cross the border and I'm not looking forward to that. But enough about my selfish interests - if Syria is struck by the US, I am probably going to lose some faith in Obama as it will mean the loss of life of innocent civilians. I was hoping Obama was above this but at the moment this looks like a no.

I am dreading this conflict, I really am.....let's hope that something happens to de-escalate the situation...... Rob

[iris lilies]

I am dreading this conflict, I really am.....let's hope that something happens to de-escalate the situation...... Rob

I hope so too.

And I wonder if you caught his speech from Russia this morning, he was barely coherent. It's tough being President (and without that teleprompter.)

Oh so slap me, I couldn't resist! But honestly, he was barely coherent.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I hope so too.

And I wonder if you caught his speech from Russia this morning, he was barely coherent. It's tough being President (and without that teleprompter.)

Oh so slap me, I couldn't resist! But honestly, he was barely coherent.I didn't catch the speech, no. I am guessing the stress of the situation may be getting to him? It sure seems like he has boxed himself into a corner.....do you think he can get out of it now? Rob

[iris lilies]

I didn't catch the speech, no. I am guessing the stress of the situation may be getting to him? It sure seems like he has boxed himself into a corner.....do you think he can get out of it now? Rob

Well here's one more thing that worries me about this situation and in a roundabout way, it ties into your concern about our perception of Obama.

At this point I don't give a fig about how he appears, but he is pretty worried about that. If he continues to peddle in the direction of making himself look good (or rather reducing how bad he looks) then that does the country no good. His primary focus needs to be what is best for this country not what is best for Barack Obama.

The Syrian thing is a lost cause. Congress will support it getting the Prez out of his box. But I don't blame him for that, I blame them.

[Rogar]

I didn't catch the speech, no. I am guessing the stress of the situation may be getting to him? It sure seems like he has boxed himself into a corner.....do you think he can get out of it now? Rob

It looks like, in spite of the support of Boehner and McCain there is an increasing lobby against a strike and swinging the vote. If the vote is no strike, I see Obama as loosing and huge amount of credibility.

As much as I am against it, I actually sort of picture Obama in some sort of idealistic support of international treaty and humanitarian effort. From my perspective, war is cruel and especially cruel in third world areas. This is not an isolated instance of humanitarian abuse that the rest of the world chooses to ignore.

[RosieTR]

Huh. I thought part of the reason Obama probably went to Congress was in order to give himself an "out" after Britain wouldn't join in. If Congress voted no, it would make Obama look a bit foolish, but since they also can't get a budget passed, can barely keep the government running when it gets close to the debt ceiling, etc so it wouldn't be too weird. It would also be like the United States as a whole said no. OTOH if he himself backs down then it looks pretty bad for him.
I can't stand to watch any speech by any politician whether I support them or not. It's all just so much platitudes and conjecture, what a waste of my time. I think my very least favorite job would be to be an intern for some news program, and have to watch CSpan in its entirety. I really would rather shovel manure. Or be in solitary in prison.

[try2bfrugal]

I am probably going to lose some faith in Obama as it will mean the loss of life of innocent civilians. I was hoping Obama was above this but at the moment this looks like a no.

I am dreading this conflict, I really am.....let's hope that something happens to de-escalate the situation...... Rob


He lost me with the drone strikes on women and children who happened to be physically around people who were labeled terrorists because they were in contact with other people who were labeled terrorists. Of course the "terrorists" never had any jury trials so who knows if they were really ever guilty of anything.

It is worse than the plot from the Minority Report movie. If you haven't seen it, in that movie people were arrested for pre-crimes by a group a people born with less than 100% accurate psychic powers. Now we have a situation where people aren't even arrested for pre-crimes, women and children are being killed by drones because they are living near someone who may or may not be guilty of any actually committing any crimes.

So Obama wants to strike Syria for using chemical weapons that have killed kids. Yet, he is overseeing drone strikes that kill innocent families.

I guess it is like Cheney said. The U.S. constitution is just a piece of paper these days.

From a Huffington Post interview -

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/06/jeremy-scahill-dirty-war_n_3397073.html

"It's like "Minority Report," the Tom Cruise movie.

It is! Except in "Minority Report," in most of those cases, they knew the name of the person and what crime they were gonna commit, and they actually were in the process of committing it. It was sort of this imminent threat. Under the Obama administration, we know from the leaked white paper (http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/04/16843014-justice-department-memo-reveals-legal-case-for-drone-strikes-on-americans?lite) that they've redefined the term "imminent" to mean that you have, at some point in the past, plotted against the United States. Which is not what the word "imminent" means. And so we're using sort of Orwellian terms to justify this war against terrorism.

My biggest concern, to be honest with you, is that when we are killing innocent people in drone strikes or cruise missile strikes or special operations night raids, we're creating more enemies than we are killing terrorists. We're growing the very threat that we claim to be trying to defeat."

And so the military industrial complex wins yet again.

[gimmethesimplelife]

He lost me with the drone strikes on women and children who happened to be physically around people who were labeled terrorists because they were in contact with other people who were labeled terrorists. Of course the "terrorists" never had any jury trials so who knows if they were really ever guilty of anything.

It is worse than the plot from the Minority Report movie. If you haven't seen it, in that movie people were arrested for pre-crimes by a group a people born with less than 100% accurate psychic powers. Now we have a situation where people aren't even arrested for pre-crimes, women and children are being killed by drones because they are living near someone who may or may not be guilty of any actually committing any crimes.

So Obama wants to strike Syria for using chemical weapons that have killed kids. Yet, he is overseeing drone strikes that kill innocent families.

I guess it is like Cheney said. The U.S. constitution is just a piece of paper these days.

From a Huffington Post interview -

"It's like "Minority Report," the Tom Cruise movie.

It is! Except in "Minority Report," in most of those cases, they knew the name of the person and what crime they were gonna commit, and they actually were in the process of committing it. It was sort of this imminent threat. Under the Obama administration, we know from the leaked white paper (http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/04/16843014-justice-department-memo-reveals-legal-case-for-drone-strikes-on-americans?lite) that they've redefined the term "imminent" to mean that you have, at some point in the past, plotted against the United States. Which is not what the word "imminent" means. And so we're using sort of Orwellian terms to justify this war against terrorism.

My biggest concern, to be honest with you, is that when we are killing innocent people in drone strikes or cruise missile strikes or special operations night raids, we're creating more enemies than we are killing terrorists. We're growing the very threat that we claim to be trying to defeat."

And so the military industrial complex wins yet again.Drone strikes on women and children who were innocently in the area of people labeled as terrorists were? Honestly, if this is true, I'm loosing faith in Obama. Gotta give full disclosure here and admit that I am not the news junkie I once was so I am not up to speed on details such as this. I cut back on my media exposure as a way of improving my quality of life. It does help keep my blood pressure down, but one result is I don't know details such as what you have posted here, try2befrugal.

Indiscriminate drone strikes to me are a form of terrorism - and I bet for those vulnerable to them, they are considered terrorism. I can't change this but I am mighty disillusioned if this is indeed true. What a world we live in..... Rob

[bae]

Why these dates? I am going down to Mexico to have another ultrasound done to see if the alternative medicine I have been taking to shrink my gallstones has worked or not - It would be nice to avoid surgery. I am also getting another crown done and having my teeth cleaned. So anyway, if there are strikes I am thinking it will be a time consuming pain to cross the border and I'm not looking forward to that.

Well, hopefully Obama will put off killing people long enough not to inconvenience you in your ongoing quest for health care, Rob.

[bae]

Drone strikes on women and children who were innocently in the area of people labeled as terrorists were?

Yup, we've been at it for years. Wipe out a wedding party from your air-conditioned office here in the USA, and it's business-as-usual for us. But that's hi-tech warfare, engaged in by one of the countries the makes the rules, so it's OK...

[gimmethesimplelife]

Well, hopefully Obama will put off killing people long enough not to inconvenience you in your ongoing quest for health care, Rob.Worst case scenario I have to wait a long time to cross the border in the heat. There are vendors roaming the line selling cold drinks and I will make due, Bae. What is more important to me is the loss of innocent life in Syria.....just think about it. It's a fluke of luck that any of us are in the first world, problems here though there may be. We all could have just as easily been born Syrians, and stuck dealing with this.....And I didn't mean to imply that how dare this inconvenience me but I'm reading what I've posted and yes, it did come across this way. I am sorry about that and did not mean it that way......Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Yup, we've been at it for years. Wipe out a wedding party from your air-conditioned office here in the USA, and it's business-as-usual for us. But that's hi-tech warfare, engaged in by one of the countries the makes the rules, so it's OK...Call me naïve if you want, Bae, but I was not aware of this. Of course I know what drones are and what drones do and I know also there has been legislation that American citizens overseas can be offed via drones and that strikes me as indefensible.....that's the only nice word I can come up with. I will do some research on this topic as I am behind the curve on it. Rob

[try2bfrugal]

I added the link in my previous post to the full article in the Huffington Post about the drone strikes and the Minority Report comparison. It is from an interview with Jeremy Scahill about his Dirty Wars documentary.

I think there is so much information and disinformation these days between the web and TV that it is sometimes hard to know what items are important and which are not. The drone strikes I think should be a huge issue.

Why is it okay to kill innocent kids with drones but not with chemical weapons? They are dying horrible deaths either way.

Killing people and their families just because we think they might be a threat some day int the future goes against the core of everything we were taught in school that made the U.S. a great country. Maybe the stuff from civic class was always a bunch of BS and never the way our government really worked.

[ApatheticNoMore]

This is proven: drone strikes were targeting rescuers, basically first aid people who go in to help people injured by drones. Try to help someone out that is injured or dying from a drone strike, get droned yourself!:
http://www.businessinsider.com/us-drones-bomb-civilian-rescuers-2013-7

How many drones kill is a hard thing to find out. The Obama administration straight out lies about it, but that's probably not a unique feature (definitely not the first time civilian war casualties were dismissed by the U.S.).

War kills innocent civilians. The U.S. doesn't wage war in a way that would minimize civilian deaths (maybe nobody does, because c'est la guerre ("that's war"), but it's why the idea of humanitarian war is so dubious when we *know* this - when we *know* when war happens noone will give a flying flip how many civilians it kills or even care much about *how* they are killed - so long as it's not poison gasses I guess). The only reason we have Iraq and Afghanistan civilian death information is because Manning leaked it. That's how secret civilian death counts are.

Drones ARE war. Some studies suggest they kill a lot more than piloted planes.
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/07/03/study-drones-killed-more-civilians-than-jet-fighters.html

But even if they don't, does anyone even know why the U.S. government is at war with (ie droning) the countries it is? I surely don't. Terrism, al queda is bad except when the U.S. supports and arms them (as with the Syrian rebels) or something. War for what again? Civilians are being killed for what again?

I don't know if drones themselves are the height of evil, having a kill list (a secret kill list at that!) has to tip those scales. But drones are war with a half dozen countries few know why the U.S. government is at war with.


Killing people and their families just because we think they might be a threat some day int the future goes against the core of everything we were taught in school that made the U.S. a great country. Maybe the stuff from civic class was always a bunch of BS and never the way our government really worked.

probably :) oh i'm a cynic, still better when we have some protections than none (the drone victims of course have none)

Really though Rob, read up on drones, find out what's going on in the world, but don't follow politics as much as I do sometimes, it's not worth it. It's a pretty viscious world.

[flowerseverywhere]

It's a pretty viscious world.yes it is, and it always has been. From the beginning of time men have been clubbing each other, shooting arrows, stabbing with sticks, shooting with guns and on and on. When you read the linked articles and other articles on drones there is no question civilians are killed. I am very disappointed too. The thing I liked least about Bush the lesser is the Iraq/Afghanistan conflicts. I could swear that Obama said we would be out of Iraq - but not that we would substitute Afghanistan and Syria for it. Here it is http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/10/obama-to-speak-on-iraq-at-1245-pm/1#.UisVaD90mZs I especially liked the line "I would note that the end of war in Iraq reflects a larger transition," Obama said. "The tide of war is receding."

[CathyA]

Rob....Don't worry about your comment about going to Mexico. I think most of us understood.
Also..........its hard to know how much media to listen too. Many times people here have said "Turn off that TV! You'll feel alot better!" That might be true, but then you also might not know what's going on..........so what is a simple-living person to do?
Good luck getting to Mexico without too much hassle.

[iris lilies]

Call me naïve if you want, Bae, but I was not aware of this. Of course I know what drones are and what drones do and I know also there has been legislation that American citizens overseas can be offed via drones and that strikes me as indefensible.....that's the only nice word I can come up with. I will do some research on this topic as I am behind the curve on it. Rob

Oh we are going to turn you to the right side my pretty!!!! [insert evil laughter here]

edited to change to:

You are talking about this? http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/22/politics/drone-strikes-americans

My knee jerk reaction is that in this situation I don't think being American gives these guys any special privileges. As time goes by we will be growing more and more of our own Muslim-ideology terrorists. If they prefer hanging out in the Motherland, let 'em. And if while there they craft tangible threats against the U.S. then take them out while they are vacationing in Motherland, that seems like a win-win.

[try2bfrugal]

Oh we are going to turn you to the right side my pretty!!!! [insert evil laughter here]

edited to change to:

You are talking about this? http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/22/politics/drone-strikes-americans

My knee jerk reaction is that in this situation I don't think being American gives these guys any special privileges. As time goes by we will be growing more and more of our own Muslim-ideology terrorists. If they prefer hanging out in the Motherland, let 'em. And if while there they craft tangible threats against the U.S. then take them out while they are vacationing in Motherland, that seems like a win-win.

If Iran had drones flying over Omaha killing entire families because some low paid government analyst there put an uncles' name on a secret kill list, then who is the real terrorist?

Would taking out a single potential "terrorist" in the US eliminate the problem, or would it breed never ending hatred among millions Americans wanting to seek revenge at any price?

[gimmethesimplelife]

Oh we are going to turn you to the right side my pretty!!!! [insert evil laughter here]

edited to change to:

You are talking about this? http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/22/politics/drone-strikes-americans

My knee jerk reaction is that in this situation I don't think being American gives these guys any special privileges. As time goes by we will be growing more and more of our own Muslim-ideology terrorists. If they prefer hanging out in the Motherland, let 'em. And if while there they craft tangible threats against the U.S. then take them out while they are vacationing in Motherland, that seems like a win-win.LOL Me a Republican? I wish we could meet over coffee and have a visit and you would see for yourself how unlikely that will ever be LOL. Though I have said one thing I firmly believe in from the last election cycle. Paul Ryan was a brilliant choice for VP and I even agree with one of his big points - this kind of spending can't keep going on forever without us turning into Greece. Meaning we will become an economic basket case at some future point but without the photogenic islands with whitewashed buildings and blue, blue skies......Not 100% of what Republicans have to say is automatically wrong. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Rob....Don't worry about your comment about going to Mexico. I think most of us understood.
Also..........its hard to know how much media to listen too. Many times people here have said "Turn off that TV! You'll feel alot better!" That might be true, but then you also might not know what's going on..........so what is a simple-living person to do?
Good luck getting to Mexico without too much hassle.Thank you, Cathy. And I think you are so right. It was very hard for me to unplug from the media to the point which I have - now I can't converse as intelligently as before about current events and there is a part of me that misses that.....But I also like the serenity that has started to come from not knowing stuff. And something else that I am liking is not having to try to interpret stories about the economy that contradict one another.....uggggggh. It's also nice not to be exposed to a much advertising, too. But yeah, it does seem also seem to me that important things are now happening and maybe it would be better to know more of what is going on, or at least what we are allowed to know. I have not found the middle ground here yet..... Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Oh we are going to turn you to the right side my pretty!!!! [insert evil laughter here]

edited to change to:

You are talking about this? http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/22/politics/drone-strikes-americans

My knee jerk reaction is that in this situation I don't think being American gives these guys any special privileges. As time goes by we will be growing more and more of our own Muslim-ideology terrorists. If they prefer hanging out in the Motherland, let 'em. And if while there they craft tangible threats against the U.S. then take them out while they are vacationing in Motherland, that seems like a win-win.Iris, I read your link and I do find this chilling. It seems that these four people did not get the right to a trial with representation provided for them if they can not afford it themselves, etc. If these people are truly plotting terrorist attacks, ok, obviously that is not a good thing. Granted. But are they also not worth the right to a trial to tell their side of the story, if they so wish.....I am deeply disturbed by this, even while I am relieved that supposedly these four were intercepted before successfully carrying out whatever deeds they were planning. Rob

[Zoebird]

Like every president, there are pluses and minuses that crop up during the administration. That being said, I think sometimes some presidents ahve more negatives than positives. I don't feel that way about Obama -- but I did about Clinton and Bush, and I was probably too young to really weigh in on Bush Sr and Regan.

Anyway -- non-sequitor -- I do have to say that the sound track to Minority Report, which we just happened to be given in a sound-track collection a friend gave us, is *gorgeous* and I highly recommend listening to it on a long drive with a beautiful view.

I only read the news, and I do an evening skim of several news sources online -- seeking both international and US sources. If I'm interested in a given article, I'll read it and then look for similar material from different sources; if I'm not interested, I feel like the headline is generally enough to alert me to whatever might be going on.

But, I basically gave up listening to, watching, and for the large part reading the "news" back in 2000. Wow, 13 years ago.

[Simone]

I am glad someone mentioned Scahill. I read his book, "Dirty Wars," and recommend it to all.
Even if we cannot change our government's actions, it is important to at least be informed and to bear moral witness.

[Lainey]

Even if we cannot change our government's actions, it is important to at least be informed and to bear moral witness.

+1