See above where I mention how I am aware of this irony.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lily
This is a bit harsh.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lily
Never respect her? How do you get this?
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See above where I mention how I am aware of this irony.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lily
This is a bit harsh.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lily
Never respect her? How do you get this?
With my daughter I do a LOT of sharing the process I'm going through. I also try to help her sort through her belongings regularly and we talk a lot about thoughts and feelings and reasons to discard items. I also zone her - she can only keep her stuff in her room, her closet (which is not in her room) and a specific section of storage rack. This helps keep her aware of what she has and discourages putting things "here for now".
i think that making decisions and processing items helps build healthy pathways in the brain.
on judging. That's unfortunate. My kids judged me when they were younger, but every teenager judges their parents (and I bet every parent comes up short). They have grown past that and we have more adult relationships now. They still "judge" as in "have opinions on" my home, but they do not "judge" as in "criticize and blame" me. The thoughts they express are based more evaluating on effects and results and less on evaluating my thoughts and actions. ("It was great that we could all stay at the house" vs. "I'm glad you finally cleaned out the guest room.") or ("if the dolls make you happy, you should be able to have the out where you can enjoy them." Vs. "why the h*ll would you want to collect those?")
i like to think I'm reaping the reward of how they were raised. When someone got hurt or caused damage or a problem, I always tried to start by determining the intent and thoughts behind their actions. It was important to me that they deal with the consequences of their actions, but there was a huge difference to me between breaking a vase because you were trying to put it away (so next time you'll make sure it's dry, wait for help if it's heavy, etc. ok, now let's clean this up. I know you're sorry, I can get a new one.) or because you threw it (let's talk about better ways to deal with your anger, you realize this could have ended a lot worse, you will need to earn the money to replace that, no you can't help him in the kitchen unless I'm there, last time you threw a vase at him and I'm not confident yet that you won't do it again...) because of poor judgement (this is one of the reasons we don't run in the living room...) or by accident (I know you didn't see the vase on the edge of the counter. That was basically my fault. Or just be more careful, ok?)
i also am am curious as to what makes you think your s.o. Is a hoarder. I remember you talking once about a garage full of "future garage sale stuff" but I seem to recall that a garage sale actually happened? Do you have other concerns? - oops, took too long to type. Reading now.
And here, you fooled us into thinking it was just religion that was the big issue with yu two.Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler
My take on your view of life is that you dislike hoarding above all else, it influences your daily actions, it permeates your regular thoughts.
I only know you from a message board but dude, your near constant references to hoarding shows at you have more than a little problem with it. No matter who is hoarding you will have a problem with that behavior, it will grate on you, you will needle her, you will fuss with her actions.
Let me be clear, I am not saying you should dump the GF only because you will never be able to live with her. Plenty of people can have great relationships and maintan separate households.
Her potential hoarding is an extreme red flag in a relationship with you regardless of where you two live.
I am curious to know how she doesnt see that. She has shown you who she is, you have shown her you cant stand that. How can rational adults think they can overcome this with Luuurv?
So now, I really want to know how one determines one is 20% happier.
so you are going to zone her by house.
And yep, she sounds like me. I think you have said she is resigned to the idea that she will never have children if she is with you? I would not have found that acceptable, but, assuming I was single, if I had met dh after my children were grown (now) and I had my own house, I would never have married him or cleaned out for him. I'd be perfectly content with the zoned by house arrangement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
She and I have split up several times over the past three years. Once was for like 10 months. She initiates trying again. I have been willing to try again and again.
I am getting pretty long in the tooth, and break-ups really take a lot out of me emotionally.
For her, I think she sees a guy who is polite, kind, principled, and employed. And that is good enough, plenty really.
The differences on stuff and on atheism/religion don't matter much to her.
20% is my best guess. I'd say 10% would be the number that meditation has helped me to be more happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken lady
I know this: Since I simplified my life I have been a lot happier. My depression rarely goes too deep. My blue moods don't last as long. It is easier to relax.
Why would you have never married him? Why would you not be cleaning out for him?
Also:Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
I do think about the issue of hoarding often, but probably not as often as you might think from this forum.
Hoarding is mostly an intellectual interest, though obviously some real-life stuff comes into play too, and I think about that -- such as with my parents and with my significant other.
I spend a lot of time thinking about books I am reading, various social issues, how I will probably do some fishing from shore in September, how I can walk or bike somewhere, fun ways to keep Harlan entertained, food, music, nature, etc.
I am not a piece of paper girl. For me, marriage represented a security that was nice to have but primarily created a structure for raising children - home and family. The division of labor we created was such that he provided the majority of the financial support and with my age and work history, now, I could never catch up, so obtaining my own independently supported hoarder friendly home is not an option (I think he would choose me to keep the farm and he get a condo in the city). Also, I'm used to living with him and I like it - Most the time.
However, if I were financially independent, accustomed to living alone, and had my own house, I would be unwilling to share my space, complicate my finances, and compromise my independence, for what? What would I get out of marriage and a shared home that I couldn't have without those things? Single women live longer.
Also, dh would not be happy living by himself. He turned down a short term posting overseas because I refused to go. I thought he should just get a little apartment and enjoy it. He thought I was insane.
For what? I dunno... Men are considered superfluous nowadays, for the most part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken lady
Single women live longer?
Single women live longer. Y'all cause a lot of wear and tear.
i'm not saying you're superfluous, I'm saying if you're willing to provide me with companionship and an exclusive sexual relationship and I already have a house and an income, I don't see the need to change anything.
I said men are mostly superfluous. I know you didn't.
Many people choose not to live together so I don't see the big deal about UL and his GF. I have read about married couples that have bought homes next to each other because one of them couldn't live with the other due to messiness, etc. If I had to guess I would think that probably more hoarders are introverted because extroverts want to have people over. If somebodies home is too messy and dirty it is hard for me to visit for very long. It just feels nasty.
My point was that if he's holding his breath for her to change so that he can live with her, he should probably stop. If he's ok with the status quo, then all good, it is what it is.
I am not okay with it. But I have not told her "no way" about living together.
Ideally I would like to live with a life partner.
But again, I really just sink when I think of another break-up. I am too old and too tired for this kind of thing.
Who knows? Maybe if I told her "no" to living together then she'd be okay with that. But really, she might be like: "Why?"
Then I say: "You are a hoarder."
How do you think someone would take that?
I am not so sure she would gain much of anything by us living together. She makes like $20k more a year than me. She has a whole house, a nice little yard, and a two car garage. I am, more or less, superfluous.
You live so minimally that I think you would be hard pressed to find someone that lives like you do. So you would probably have to live in her house and adjust to the way she lives. Maybe have 1 room that is all yours and very neat. Compromise if you can-if not then you will be living alone.
I have zero intention of moving into her house. Like I said, I am not going back to being as depressed as I was before or living in a mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
I grew up that way and I ain't going back to it.
I am not so sure you understand how much a 20% increase in happiness means to someone who has been depressed since the summer of 1979.
I was just pointing out that your only choice is to do it if you want to live with someone. You want to live with a clone of yourself which I don't see happening. You are much more minimalist then most people.
I could live with someone who is not a minimalist, but I ain't living with a hoarder or even a clutterbug.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
Most people just aren't that neat>8)
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
my ailing mother's resounding theme is that we are going to spend an hour a day dealing with her basement hoard. First of all, her oxygen doesn't go that far and it is grossly unsafe for her to do that many stairs. Second, the only thing she can do for a whole hour is sleep! But the hoard is bothering her, I think her thinking about it all the time has ratcheted up her OCD behaviors, i.e.: takes an hour to take 4 pills because she constantly has to re-check that they are correct.
I could bring the hoard to her if I were more steady on my feet, but I still have a blood pressure in the toilet and frankly not falling coming up the stairs is a challenge without a box in my arms. Plus, I am in the middle of getting 2 eye surgeries done and cannot lift for the next 2 months. Medical stuff is going on with my dad, bad time for him and me to tackle it.
I sympathize with her, the hoard keeps me awake, but I don't see a way to resolve it in the near future. How do I give her some peace?
Its not your responsibility to give her peace. She is the agent of that hoard, she has to live with the consequences.Quote:
Originally Posted by freshstart
The hoard will still be there when you all have better health and can tackle it then.
Assuming you chose to eliminate the option of not doing this at all, You had family and a cleaning person that were helping at one point, could you ask one of those people to carry two boxes up to the living room? Then you and your mother could sit on the couch and work through them for as much of her hour as she could handle.
having been through this, two boxes is plenty to start, and it wouldn't be too bad of a mess in the living room. One box might even be enough. It would be time that you could spend with your mom supporting her in what she wants to do, and you could both sit on the couch. It's more about your mom trying to make decisions at this point than it is about a huge clean out.
my dad is now down for the count but we do have a cleaning lady who would bring up boxes. There just seems like there are a 100 of them and it will take forever to do it that way but she is a great option, I didn't even think of that. My cousin's DD and her friend who stayed with us for 3 weeks were supposed to organize the whole thing, they offered that. But they did not follow through, bummer. My parents were too nice to ask them to keep their end of the bargain once again putting off dealing with the hoard and that's on them, I felt the girls should be spoken to.
I know I probably can't give my mom peace of mind, I just wish I could. She is getting sicker and it is extremely hard to watch her suffer. I want to go down there and take care of the whole mess and bring her down one day and say "ta-da". But I physically can't yet.
I agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
Also: Allowing yourself to be continually roped into working on this "with" or "for" her will likely not change her behavior. She will continue to hoard, most likely.
A common trapped that children of hoarders fall into is "helping" their parents clean. They do it out of the best of intentions most times. But it is almost universally folly. Beware.
Interesting - there's a new program offered by the Area Agency on Aging about seniors who are hoarders. They are opening it to anyone age 55+.
http://aaaphx.org/eldervention-many-...gin-september/
I hadn't heard the term "eldervention" until this.
Excellent link! Thanks!
you're right because we don't fight often but we fight every single time I have ever tried to help her with her hoard my entire life. Why am I even considering this? Because she's said she's not at peace with it. Well, neither am I but helping with it is only going to increase my lack of peace. thanks with help with a reality check. She needs to do this alone with the cleaning lady if it bothers her so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler
Freshstart it appears you are having an epiphany moment. I remember when I was seeing counselor and she would say something that made so much sense and was so simple that I just could not see on my own. Had to do with choosing when to call my mother rather than responding when she called me all het up about something. It made a world of difference. Good for you. Let the cleaning lady deal with "helping" and you find your own peace. Good luck!!!
thanks! I think that was an epiphany. A side benefit of my mother's disease is her oxygen cord doesn't reach my end of the house. So she sees me on my terms, unless she's calling. That will save me from endless hoard related discussions
The surprising gifts of oxygen tanks...
This lady is saying she is going to do a complete de-hoard in a weekend. Thoughts?
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/07/19/h...s-clean-sweep/
I wish her luck. I hope it works for her.
I'd be curious to check in with that lady and see how she's doing 6 mos - 1 year after the clean sweep. She certainly sounded motivated on the video but I wonder if it's really going to stick.
I think the clean sweep is really the only way to make change. Clean house show did something similar and when they went back a few years later few people had relapsed also they were not as bad as the show hoarders but still pretty bad.
If the people generally relapse, how is it the only way to make change? Have there been any studies of people who turned themselves around slowly - it seems like surgical weight reduction vs. life changes leading to gradual weight loss.
People generally relapse. That is essentially all there is to it. A very, very few ever hold on to their weight loss or their decluttered house or their sobriety.
we occasionally had volunteers in hospice who would help with a hoarder's home before they died, I never told the volunteer's but they always relapsed unless they were bed bound and physically could not re-hoard.