Recovering hoarders?

Simplemind, i'm sorry for the pain you went through with your parent's house.

I am an instrumental hoarder. Actually I fit in several categories. I think that the tendency toward hoarding is innate, but how it is expressed is a product of your environment - "learned". As a parent, teacher and artist I have many opportunities for my instrumental hoarding to bring me reinforcement and dig a deeper channel in my brain. My dd called home from college her freshman year and said " I need 100 identical items to build an art project out of and I have a $5 budget." I was able to give her choices! For free! Happiness! Pride! The pleasure centers just lit up. My fellow teachers know I am their go to girl. - social status!

You need a lot of people on your cognitive behavioral therapy team. I am lucky because I have a lot of people who love me and understand me and will take the time to help me make new paths even when it seems ridiculous. In some ways it's like physical therapy for a severe injury. Only you can SEE the physical effects of an injury, so you don't feel stupid or frustrated when you tell a full grow person "great job! You got three beads on the string today!" or whatever. Today my daughter's boyfriend asked if cd cases were recyclable. And I said "no. You have to throw them away. And if you save them, it doesn't make them not trash, it makes your house the dump.". And my non-demonstrative daughter got up, walked across the room, wrapped her arms around me and buried her face in my shoulder. These are the things I hold on to when I'm trying to throw away the trash. That is worth way more than $5. My coworkers can go buy craft supplies.

Ultralightangler, I'm not so sure about the trauma theory. I think there can be a lot of small "traumas" that aren't really traumas to normal people, or even large traumas that push you one way or another - usually they intensify the hoarding behaviors, like an addict reaching for more, but maybe sometimes they can also be wake up calls. And I think in some cases, the behavior just slowly takes over your life until you reach a tipping point and give up.

Libby, religion can also be seen as a learned behavior, but whatever culture a person is raised in, I think some feel a deep connection to the divine and others nothing. Those who are deeply devout might have taken a different path in a different culture, and may even convert, but are unlikely to "unlearn" religion.

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Originally Posted by libby

My MiL grew up in a household of extreme hoarders. That is what she learned. My husband also struggles with that issue. I think it is a learned behaviour so why is it so difficult to unlearn?

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Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler

libby:

The research shows that it is partly, if not mostly, genetic. There is something wrong with chromosome 14 that makes people hoard. While the study of compulsive hoarding is very new, they do know there is a large genetic component. They also know that emotionally troubled kids are more like to grow up and be hoarders. Another interesting factoid is that only Cognitive Behavioral Therapy has thus far been shown to work at all to help hoarders.

But heroin addicts are more likely to overcome their addiction than hoarders are. It is an incredibly difficult to disorder to overcome.

One other thing, most hoarders are just cluttered or shopaholics, but then there is a trigger moment. Maybe it is the death of a child or spouse, maybe it is an illness or injury. But suddenly the person goes from cluttered to full on extreme hoarding.

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First, any link to the science/data?
I ask in part because both genetics and environment are predetermination verses free will. Also in the case of genetics, there is some evidence that it adapts/evolves (from Darwin to studies of Twins, where one gets cancer and the other doesn't). I bring that point up, because I deal with it every day of my life. (another subject, not the right time/place)

Second, unlearning a behavior does involve some things:
Want/need to change
Practice, practice, practice
then of course other things help:
Support
Guidance
reinforcement
and in some cases there is a physical element (example the patch for smokers).

Here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18616610

Less technical:
http://psychcentral.com/lib/the-gene...sive-hoarding/

Also:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/708049

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

My dd called home from college her freshman year and said " I need 100 identical items to build an art project out of and I have a $5 budget." I was able to give her choices! For free! Happiness! Pride! The pleasure centers just lit up.

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Being able to allow someone else (even a daughter) to take 100 identical items from your home for her use is a huge thing in the hording spectrum. To be able to say "I've got it for you", and to feel "Happiness" and "Pride" is really big. What I've seen, a horder of items tends to be very self-centered - they might need it someday and can't bless others with their things. I just wanted to point that out because I think it is worthy of note.

I think it stems from your definition of us and them. Self/family/tribe and mine vs. ours vs. theirs.

For example, when ultralightangler's mother let his dad give him the gun, she was NOT giving up the gun, she was just accepting that him having the gun was the same as her having the gun. Letting him have it when the idea of selling it panics her actually shows that she has a strong connection to him.

I have saved things that could have been used by multiple children in my community by now if I had passed them on, because MY grandchildren *might* need or want them. I don't personally know those other children. So i think the more social connections a hoarder has, the easier it is to "share" the hoard. Unfortunately hoarders tend to withdrawal from social connections as either a related trait or a consequence of hoarding. Also, on the flip side, the more connection you feel to someone, the more compelled you feel to hoard THEIR stuff.

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

I have saved things that could have been used by multiple children in my community by now if I had passed them on, because MY grandchildren *might* need or want them. I don't personally know those other children. So i think the more social connections a hoarder has, the easier it is to "share" the hoard. Unfortunately hoarders tend to withdrawal from social connections as either a related trait or a consequence of hoarding. Also, on the flip side, the more connection you feel to someone, the more compelled you feel to hoard THEIR stuff.

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Interesting… I have in my basement right now two things relevant to the conversation: a jacket my son wore when he went the premiere of a movie he was in, and a Disney costume (Beauty from Beauty and the Beast) that my daughter wore one Halloween. It was the only costume we bought as opposed to making, so it was very expensive in my mind. (Actually my DH bought it for her--I wouldn't have).

What the heck are these things doing in the basement for 20 years?? As you said, I've often thought about the joy that that Disney costume would give another little girl, but I have fallen into the "someday when I have a granddaughter" trap.

Because I have a strong grounding in Catholicism (no longer am Catholic, but I attended 12 years of Catholic school), I think it's literally a sin to hoard things in that way. It goes back to Jesus' "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal." I feel that it's a sin for me to keep things to myself rather than release them for the good of others. I am not passing judgment on anyone else, but for me, accepting it as my own sinfulness helps me to deal with it.

Interesting to me in that context - I heard a progressive rabbi speak once who said that the word translated as "sin" from Hebrew might more accurately be described as "missing the mark".

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

Interesting to me in that context - I heard a progressive rabbi speak once who said that the word translated as "sin" from Hebrew might more accurately be described as "missing the mark".

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Yes, that's how I see it. To me, sin isn't guilt-inducing indictment of my character, but kind of a marker of something I should correct in order to be happier/closer to God.

Catherine:

I grew up half-Catholic (Mom was Catholic; Dad was secular). And I feel much the same way! When I see someone with 40 pairs of shoes I think: "Imagine on the kids in Haiti that need those shoes!" Ya know?

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

Interesting to me in that context - I heard a progressive rabbi speak once who said that the word translated as "sin" from Hebrew might more accurately be described as "missing the mark".

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I think Eckhart Tolle explains sin the same way in A New Earth. Actually he explains many things in the bible in ways that make much more sense to me.

Ultralite that is so funny. I also grew up going to Catholic school. My mother loved it because it saved so much on clothes. I think I wore the same two jumpers for all those years, mom just kept lengthening them. She only had to buy blouses and shoes. For 26 years I worked a job with a uniform. To this day I'm not comfortable with a lot of clothes.

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

For example, when ultralightangler's mother let his dad give him the gun, she was NOT giving up the gun, she was just accepting that him having the gun was the same as her having the gun. Letting him have it when the idea of selling it panics her actually shows that she has a strong connection to him.

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Oh I think I have an example of that too.... My grandmother had several strokes, my grandfather got hit in the head by a car, the family had to move them out of their big house into a little 1 bed/1bath cottage Sr assisted living unit. My grandmother wanted all her things and was loud and demanding (the stroked changed her personality). There wasn't possibly room for everything. Dad asked her if he could give me one of her rockers (she had 4). She cried and yelled and finely said "OK, but it was only on loan, I had to give it back when she could move to a bigger house." Everytime I saw her, she wanted to know how I was taking care of her rocker. She passed about 3 months later and grandpa lived another year with brain damage. 18 years later I still consider that grandma's rocker, not mine because it wasn't a gift....just on loan.

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Originally Posted by Float On

Oh I think I have an example of that too.... My grandmother had several strokes, my grandfather got hit in the head by a car, the family had to move them out of their big house into a little 1 bed/1bath cottage Sr assisted living unit. My grandmother wanted all her things and was loud and demanding (the stroked changed her personality). There wasn't possibly room for everything. Dad asked her if he could give me one of her rockers (she had 4). She cried and yelled and finely said "OK, but it was only on loan, I had to give it back when she could move to a bigger house." Everytime I saw her, she wanted to know how I was taking care of her rocker. She passed about 3 months later and grandpa lived another year with brain damage. 18 years later I still consider that grandma's rocker, not mine because it wasn't a gift....just on loan.

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This made me laugh, thinking about a some stories. One is how people always say you can't take it with you and how I once saw someone who disagreed. (think it may have been a comedian) They stated that a check for the total of the value of the estate was placed in the pocket of the dead, and if they wanted the stuff they could just cash it.

Chickenlady, thanks for the links. One issue when talking about science, is without sources are we really doing any different then throwing out stuff, or things like astrology? (I am guilty of it as well, as some has been presented so much, we no longer look for or question the sources)

To those of you who are hoarders or recovering hoarders and have spouses. How would you feel and/or react if your spouse decided to get their own place?

Umwow. Define "get their own place"

If you mean actually move out, that would be a crisis point. I can't imagine being married to somebody I didn't live with. I would want to fix it. But if he had threatened to move out when it was at the worst, I don't think I would have believed I could fix it. I think I would have just given up and I would now be a very fat, lonely, broke person living in squalor like a pack rat (the actual animal).

I do, however, understand the neat to live in a clean, open space. We have a yours/mine/ours system.

Upstairs the study is his - sparse, clean, open. I literally ask permission to bring anything in with me (coffe cup, book) if I go there to spend time with him. Bedroom and bathroom are "ours" they are more cluttered than he would like - mostly because I am working on clothes issues so there are often baskets of clothes on the floor. The top of his dresser and his nightstand are almost empty. My dresser and bedside shelf are messy and cluttered. There is too much stuff on the bathroom vanity. There are things that are purely decorative that he could do without.

Downstairs the Dining porch, livingroom, kitchen, guest bedroom that used to be ds's room, and powder room are "ours". They fluctuate, but right now I think they are pretty good. The kitchen is the worst with a sewing machine, file box, ice cream maker, and several boxes and stacks of paper on surfaces and in corners. Also the sink is full of dirty dishes and the counter is covered with produce waiting to be processed.

The bedroom/bath/sleeping porch area is currently shared by me and dd2. It's messy and cluttered, but no worse than your average kid's room right before somebody gets to spend Saturday cleaning up.

The basement is " mine" and it's pretty bad. Not " hoarders" bad anymore, but definitely "clean house" bad.

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

Umwow. Define "get their own place"

If you mean actually move out, that would be a crisis point. I can't imagine being married to somebody I didn't live with. I would want to fix it. But if he had threatened to move out when it was at the worst, I don't think I would have believed I could fix it. I think I would have just given up and I would now be a very fat, lonely, broke person living in squalor like a pack rat (the actual animal).

I do, however, understand the neat to live in a clean, open space. We have a yours/mine/ours system.

Upstairs the study is his - sparse, clean, open. I literally ask permission to bring anything in with me (coffe cup, book) if I go there to spend time with him. Bedroom and bathroom are "ours" they are more cluttered than he would like - mostly because I am working on clothes issues so there are often baskets of clothes on the floor. The top of his dresser and his nightstand are almost empty. My dresser and bedside shelf are messy and cluttered. There is too much stuff on the bathroom vanity. There are things that are purely decorative that he could do without.

Downstairs the Dining porch, livingroom, kitchen, guest bedroom that used to be ds's room, and powder room are "ours". They fluctuate, but right now I think they are pretty good. The kitchen is the worst with a sewing machine, file box, ice cream maker, and several boxes and stacks of paper on surfaces and in corners. Also the sink is full of dirty dishes and the counter is covered with produce waiting to be processed.

The bedroom/bath/sleeping porch area is currently shared by me and dd2. It's messy and cluttered, but no worse than your average kid's room right before somebody gets to spend Saturday cleaning up.

The basement is " mine" and it's pretty bad. Not " hoarders" bad anymore, but definitely "clean house" bad.

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Yes, I meant like if a spouse were to say: "I am not okay with this situation. I am getting my own apartment and moving out. We'll still be married and spend time together, go on date nights or whatever, but I am not willing to live like this."

Well, that would not have worked for me. I would be sleeping at his apartment. And when the kids lived here, they would also have been sleeping at his apartment. And the kids would have brought their stuff, so basically we would be moving and keeping the current house as a very expensive storage unit for my stuff.

For me and for dh, married is "all in". "I am not willing to live like this" is a starting point for figuring out how we can work together to change "like this.". Also there is a difference between "willing" and "able". I have always been more willing than able to fix the hoarding.

Expecting a sudden giant clear out is like looking at your sedentary spouse who weighs 300 lbs and saying. "There is a marathon next month. If you don't place in the top ten, we're over." On the other hand, if you truly care about that person, You might say "look, I'm worried about your health. What can I do to help you get more exercise and lose some weight?". Maybe you go for a walk together. Maybe you try some healthy recipes, maybe you cheer for them when they tell you they lost two pounds or swam ten laps without stopping, or whatever. And maybe some day they run a marathon. Or maybe not. But the point is, you don't let the situation reach unbearable without talking. So that when you have the conversation, you are no further than "the worst I can stand" and then hopefully, together, you move away from that.

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

Well, that would not have worked for me. I would be sleeping at his apartment. And when the kids lived here, they would also have been sleeping at his apartment. And the kids would have brought their stuff, so basically we would be moving and keeping the current house as a very expensive storage unit for my stuff.

For me and for dh, married is "all in". "I am not willing to live like this" is a starting point for figuring out how we can work together to change "like this.". Also there is a difference between "willing" and "able". I have always been more willing than able to fix the hoarding.

Expecting a sudden giant clear out is like looking at your sedentary spouse who weighs 300 lbs and saying. "There is a marathon next month. If you don't place in the top ten, we're over." On the other hand, if you truly care about that person, You might say "look, I'm worried about your health. What can I do to help you get more exercise and lose some weight?". Maybe you go for a walk together. Maybe you try some healthy recipes, maybe you cheer for them when they tell you they lost two pounds or swam ten laps without stopping, or whatever. And maybe some day they run a marathon. Or maybe not. But the point is, you don't let the situation reach unbearable without talking. So that when you have the conversation, you are no further than "the worst I can stand" and then hopefully, together, you move away from that.

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Very compelling response! Interesting analogy in there too.

Your husband moving out would not have worked for you, and probably not for him because of the kind of marriage you have. It seems like you have one seriously solid marriage.

But do you think the move-out option would be good for other couples possible?

What about a situation where a couple was preparing to get married and merge lives but one was a hoarder and the other was an SLer/minimalist? And the SLer/minimalist was like: "We can get married, but I will always have my own place because I want to be clutterfree and whatnot." ...?

What would have happened if your kids, when they were teenagers just said: "I am not living like this." and attempted to move out?

If these questions are offensive then I sincerely apologize. I am asking out of curiosity. Sometimes I think that my dad would like to change his way of life majorly. But my mom just won't allow it.

I obviously worry that I could end up in that boat someday. Too deep in a relationship with a hoarder. Then what?

When they wre teenagers? I would have paid for the apartment! I am only partly kidding. Actually, my kids have a variety a friends with many different lifestyles and spent a lot of time at other houses as teenagers. Some of their friends also spent a lot of time here. I have also generally respected their space as I do my husband's.

I can't speak for other couples. My dh works with a guy whose wife lives in another country. The guy goes home for two weeks every three months. They sound happy. I can't imagine that.

I'm a teacher of small children. I don't find curiosity offensive. Not even from people who ask things like "why is your butt so fat?" if they really want to know.

My oldest daughter is a minimalist and she has a lot of issues about stuff from living with me. She and her boyfriend moved in together when he only had a sleeping bag and a duffle bag of clothes. Her name is the only one on the lease and she told him that if it ddn't work out he was leaving and she would get a new roomate. Recently due to some major family events he has acquired a lot of stuff. When they were loading the u-haul, she looked at him and said " you understand, this changes things. If we unload this in the house and things don't work out, *i* will be leaving and you will be taking over the lease. Can you do that?"

So I guess I feel like what you are really looking for is relationship advice. The only qualification I have to give that is a sucessful relationship of 29 years - almost 25 of them married. And i'd say communicate. Often. Honestly. And have a lot of really good sex. ;)

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

When they wre teenagers? I would have paid for the apartment! I am only partly kidding. Actually, my kids have a variety a friends with many different lifestyles and spent a lot of time at other houses as teenagers. Some of their friends also spent a lot of time here. I have also generally respected their space as I do my husband's.

I can't speak for other couples. My dh works with a guy whose wife lives in another country. The guy goes home for two weeks every three months. They sound happy. I can't imagine that.

I'm a teacher of small children. I don't find curiosity offensive. Not even from people who ask things like "why is your butt so fat?" if they really want to know.

My oldest daughter is a minimalist and she has a lot of issues about stuff from living with me. She and her boyfriend moved in together when he only had a sleeping bag and a duffle bag of clothes. Her name is the only one on the lease and she told him that if it ddn't work out he was leaving and she would get a new roomate. Recently due to some major family events he has acquired a lot of stuff. When they were loading the u-haul, she looked at him and said " you understand, this changes things. If we unload this in the house and things don't work out, *i* will be leaving and you will be taking over the lease. Can you do that?"

So I guess I feel like what you are really looking for is relationship advice. The only qualification I have to give that is a sucessful relationship of 29 years - almost 25 of them married. And i'd say communicate. Often. Honestly. And have a lot of really good sex. ;)

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Well, okay...! And LOL!

Your daughter sounds really cool! :) Good for her.

I couldn't live in certain situations and I'm lucky that I married someone 34 years ago who is pretty much on the same page as me with lifestyle choices and finances. We have a few differences but they are very small in the big scheme of things.

If he dies first, I may never live with someone again. It's a huge risk.

I've often thought that society might be happier in general if everyone had their own little 500 square feet of space. Kids could be with parents for awhile but eventually everyone is autonomous in their own space. Each person chooses to join the family and/or friends on the common areas when they want to. Everyone has their privacy when they want that.

I know - I'm odd. But that would be my dream life.

Oh ... And to add to the details of my utopia - in additional to separate living spaces -

People keep their own names. They each have their own finances. They each make their decisions on their possessions and activities. Sure they can get married, and kids and grandkids are awesome. But it's all with boundaries and no one owns anyone else in any form.

I should write a book ... The utopia in our future :)

Ultralightangler - my daughter is awesome. I adore her. And we both pray that she never needs to move back to my house - or worse, let me move in with her. So there's that...

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Originally Posted by Tammy

Oh ... And to add to the details of my utopia - in additional to separate living spaces -

People keep their own names. They each have their own finances. They each make their decisions on their possessions and activities. Sure they can get married, and kids and grandkids are awesome. But it's all with boundaries and no one owns anyone else in any form.

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Sounds like a perfectly good plan to me...

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Originally Posted by Tammy

Oh ... And to add to the details of my utopia - in additional to separate living spaces -

People keep their own names. They each have their own finances. They each make their decisions on their possessions and activities. Sure they can get married, and kids and grandkids are awesome. But it's all with boundaries and no one owns anyone else in any form.

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Your dream life sounds pretty good to me. I don't need all 500 sq ft though. Around 200 would be plenty for me.

Sharing something on thought process/progress.

Last night I refilled the feed bins. It goes like this: open feed, pour into bin, secure lid, throw way non-recyclable plastic bag including string that held bag closed. And I realized, I don't know how long I've been doing this! And I don't have to give myself a pep talk anymore!

Because it used to go: open bag. Carefully wind string onto string ball for future use, pour feed into bin, secure lid, fold bag neatly and stack with other bags in giant bag pile in barn.

I still have one ball of string the size of a baseball. And I have been throwing away the previously saved bags but there is still a small (and shrinking) pile in the barn. (small = not sure I could get them all in one trash can, but maybe)

This week is our county fair. I entered a lot of antique items in the show that was judged today. There are no specific entry fees, just a blanket exhibitor fee that also gets you into the fair all week, so I saved $10 compared to daily passes.

Plus there are premiums, so with antiques and home and garden, I usually pay for my pass plus a bit for treats.

They change judges every year, and unlike some of the other categories, you can just keep bringing your antiques every year. So I brought some that were also shown last year. A couple won last year and didn't even place this year, and in a couple of cases I found myself thinking " hmm, I can get rid of that now." instead of " maybe next year."

I actually find this pretty astonishing.

I am also becoming aware that another woman I know through 4H is a hoarder and that it is starting to negatively impact her kids, who are about ten years younger than mine. They have 48 rabbits at fair. More at home. The club was talking about making the banner and how they had tons of materials because the house was full of anything you could imagine. I want to reach out to her, but I am trying to figure out where to start. I think the rabbits are going to be the crisis point. Last year they had 5. I'm thinking about starting the conversation by talking about the antiques (which came mostly from my grandmother's house) and shifting to my family and our hoarding issues. Maybe if anything sounds familiar she will reach out if she decides she needs to change.

Oh, I also got reinforcement - I took some of the dolls from my doll collection and they all won first place. So I am enjoying them at home, sharing them with others, and collecting small dividends. I'm not sure if this is good for me or bad for me.

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

This week is our county fair. I entered a lot of antique items in the show that was judged today. There are no specific entry fees, just a blanket exhibitor fee that also gets you into the fair all week, so I saved $10 compared to daily passes.

Plus there are premiums, so with antiques and home and garden, I usually pay for my pass plus a bit for treats.

They change judges every year, and unlike some of the other categories, you can just keep bringing your antiques every year. So I brought some that were also shown last year. A couple won last year and didn't even place this year, and in a couple of cases I found myself thinking " hmm, I can get rid of that now." instead of " maybe next year."

I actually find this pretty astonishing.

I am also becoming aware that another woman I know through 4H is a hoarder and that it is starting to negatively impact her kids, who are about ten years younger than mine. They have 48 rabbits at fair. More at home. The club was talking about making the banner and how they had tons of materials because the house was full of anything you could imagine. I want to reach out to her, but I am trying to figure out where to start. I think the rabbits are going to be the crisis point. Last year they had 5. I'm thinking about starting the conversation by talking about the antiques (which came mostly from my grandmother's house) and shifting to my family and our hoarding issues. Maybe if anything sounds familiar she will reach out if she decides she needs to change.

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Reaching out to another hoarder is a bold move.

A friend intimated to me last night that he is a hoarder. He is older guy, in his 50s. He apparently hired a mutual friend (a woman in her 40s) who runs an organizing business of some sort. I thinking that she is going to help him, or at least she thinks she is and intends to. He acted like he wanted some help.

Well, if you can be as kind to him as you are being to me, you could be a lot of help just to talk to.

Thanks. My intention is to play it by ear and see how things go with the pro-organizer. I am not sure how, but I picked up the vibe that he had just now, for whatever reason, realized he has a problem on his hands. So I will be approaching this especially delicately. He knows I am an "extreme minimalist." I could definitely see him poking around and asking questions of me in the near future.

Very interesting article on hoarding: http://www.vox.com/2015/7/22/9005961...k-im-a-hoarder

The organizer can help him find an approach and work through his stuff. What you can do is recognize how hard it is and give him positive feedback on his progress and maybe resources the organizer doesn't have - like alternatives to whatever he tends to accumulate: "I'm afraid to get rid f xyz because I might need it." "I found I didn't need xyz because I could use/borrow/share..."
"my kitchen is overwhelming, but I fee like I need all these things to cook.". "this is how I cook with only [limited collection of kitchen implements]" etc.

I am very excited - my recycling program just started accepting lids! So I can dump the basket of lids i collect for my rare trips to whole foods into the recycling bin this week, and then, since I don't love the basket, I can set it aside to fill with goodwill items and then drop it off, and I will have an empty space on the shelf in my laundry room and I can move the little bin of sweater drying rack supports off the dryer. Which will hopefully be a catalyst for getting all the other stuff that probably shouldn't even be in the laundry room off the dryer. The plastic dishpan that holds used cleaning rags/cloths until I run that load can go on the dryer instead of the floor. I'll be less likely to leave other stuff on the floor, the floor will be easier to sweep, and suddenly I have a clean laundry room thanks to lid recycling! You can be the guy who says "do you know we now have lid recycling?"

The Vox article is really interesting. I love this line:

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I dream of casting off this house and its contents like a shell I've outgrown

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Originally Posted by pinkytoe

The Vox article is really interesting. I love this line:

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But she wants a bigger shell to fill with more stuff... :/

I think she may be in denial about how she scored on he diagnostic questionaire. I took it and even after huge improvements, I qualify. I would say for example: if you have to play pile tetris to use the table almost every time you want to eat and your spouse is constantly tripping over a laundry basket at night because there is nowhere to put the laundry, the use of your rooms is impaired. I think she might not. Also, if she feels no distress about disposing of her stuff, why doen't she? Etc.

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

I think she may be in denial about how she scored on he diagnostic questionaire. I took it and even after huge improvements, I qualify. I would say for example: if you have to play pile tetris to use the table almost every time you want to eat and your spouse is constantly tripping over a laundry basket at night because there is nowhere to put the laundry, the use of your rooms is impaired. I think she might not. Also, if she feels no distress about disposing of her stuff, why doen't she? Etc.

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1. Those are really good points. I got that vibe too but could not really articulate them like you just did. Very helpful!
2. It was like, sometimes she was in denial, like you explained; sometimes she was eerily honest though, like when she said her collections will run amok and all bets are off when her kid eventually moves out.
3. I wonder... I really wonder... if she is going to reflect on what she wrote, perhaps go back and read it a few times, and then admit to herself the things you pointed out about her denial.

Ultralite, great article, really sad.

We had another hoarding thread not to terribly long ago (last couple of years, anyway) and there were great posts on this subject, including two wonderful books about the psychology of hoarding. I bought them both--they were excellent, and really compassionate and really explain the psychology of hoarding to a t. I will never look at hoarding the same way, and I recognize it's a continuim, and I definitely have those tendencies and am coping with them and the process, how we relate to the objects that come into our lives.

This was one book:
Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of ThingsJan 4, 2011
by Gail Steketee and Randy Frost

I think this might have been the other, not sure:
Digging Out: Helping Your Loved One Manage Clutter, Hoarding, and Compulsive AcquiringNov 1, 2009
by Michael A. Tompkins and Tamara L. Hartl

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rodeosweetheart

Ultralite, great article, really sad.

We had another hoarding thread not to terribly long ago (last couple of years, anyway) and there were great posts on this subject, including two wonderful books about the psychology of hoarding. I bought them both--they were excellent, and really compassionate and really explain the psychology of hoarding to a t. I will never look at hoarding the same way, and I recognize it's a continuim, and I definitely have those tendencies and am coping with them and the process, how we relate to the objects that come into our lives.

This was one book:
Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of ThingsJan 4, 2011
by Gail Steketee and Randy Frost

I think this might have been the other, not sure:
Digging Out: Helping Your Loved One Manage Clutter, Hoarding, and Compulsive AcquiringNov 1, 2009
by Michael A. Tompkins and Tamara L. Hartl

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Rodeo: Because my parents are both hoarders (Dad is an instrumental hoarder; mom is a sentimental hoarder; both are animal hoarders) I have read both those books, and others. You are right! Great books, very compassionate in their tone. But they do take very serious the issue of compulsive hoarding.