I suspected this had something to do with your dilemma:)Quote:
She is also physically very attractive to me.
I suspected this had something to do with your dilemma:)Quote:
She is also physically very attractive to me.
Lol! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkytoe
Bingo! I've been reading these replies and thinking "what the heck does he even like in her?" I really don't think it's going to work, after the physical attraction part doesn't outway all the other qualities you want her to have, but she doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkytoe
Good luck.
+100Quote:
It's time to find a woman who has the same definition of date as you do.
This isn't the first post from you about wanting to change your girlfriend. Why should she change? Why not just find someone more compatible?
I don't know, it might... if the fisherman will be honest about how important this aspect of the relationship is to him. Looked at a different way: she's hot (a highly valued commodity), she laughs at his jokes, she rescues dogs, she doesn't want kids, she's self-sufficient and can take care of herself financially, she admires the fact that he works hard and is educated, she appreciates how well he treats her, and they enjoy gardening together. Are these things important to the OP? How important are they?Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyA
And I do agree with everyone who has said that attempting to "change" someone is always a bad idea, and it never works! We can barely manage change within ourselves, when we try, and are highly motivated to change, and when it's our idea to change. To think that we can change others, or motivate them to change, is pure folly!:)
This is great! Do you think if you were debt free you would feel differently? I know you've mentioned in other posts that you have a very large amount of student loan debt. That was my first hit, that it's too stressful for you to spend that kind of money on dates, since you have to pay off the student loans. I can understand that. Is she debt free?Quote:
Originally Posted by watergoddess
I don't think you have to have all of the same interests and passions as a couple. If you enjoy eating meals together, spending time together, and have stimulating conversations, that's fantastic. You mentioned that you are physically attracted to each other, and have mutual respect. That's a big deal.
My ex used to LOVE to go out to eat. He would pay, and looked forward to going to a restaurant on the weekends. I made our meals at home. (I bought most of the groceries.) I realized that after working hard all week, he really LOVED driving to the mountains, going for a hike in nature, and sitting down to a meal in a restaurant. It was how he treated himself. My tendency was to want to save that money and cook something at home. I learned to go with it. (I love eating out, too...but I live on a budget.) It was really enjoyable.
It's hard for people to understand financial issues if they don't have debt. I'm debt free, but I remember the struggle I felt when I wasn't. Your girlfriend sounds like a great person. I hope you can work it out, if you are in love with her.
She is not debt free. She has a fairly normal amount of debt by American standards, a little student loan, a bunch of credit card debt, etc. A mortgage... She mentions wanting to be debt free someday but has no plan or drive to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by awakenedsoul
And let's be clear here! haha I am very physically attracted to her. She likes me because I am respectful, employed, and can make her laugh -- not for my hot bod or movie star looks.
She wants/wanted kids. But now she is older and is willing to settle for someone who does not want kids.Quote:
Originally Posted by watergoddess
Bottom line is - is she open to negotiation on the differences? If not, the physical won't outweigh the emotional and financial friction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
+1. You say she makes $20K more than you and her job has all kinds of good bennies. Why should you foot the bill?
This doesn't apply, of course, if she has extraordinary expenses of some kind, like supporting five kids and an aged parent. But for her to expect you to pay for dates is what I like to call "selective feminism."
That's good work if you can get it!Quote:
Originally Posted by oldhat
lets see....your perfect date with a woman would be with someone who looks like your girlfriend, you would ride bicycles in order to reduce your carbon footprint, stop off at the local fishing hole, impale a slimy worm on a hook and catch a few stinky fish for dinner and talk about different plans for saving for retirement and how wonderful the rest of her life would be with 100 or less things and no children. And it all would cost you next to nothing.
How romantic......You better take her out to dinner at a hugely expensive restaurant, then to a Broadway play and you better be driving a cleaned up gas guzzling SUV or you might just lose this gal.
For me the "willing to settle one someone who doesn't want kids" would be a huge red flag. I would not personally be happy to be settled for. If it's a for fun for a while relationship, that's not an issue, but it doesn't sound like it's that much fun either.
For what it's worth, the dates being described don't sound expensive to me. They certainly sound like an amount that i'm not willing to spend once a week let alone more often on entertainment, but they don't sound expensive compared to most dinner + something dates.
Bolivia is lovely in the winter, I expect...
I don't know, I've gone to plays and so on with just platonic friends (of course one paid one's own way, so it wasn't a date someone treating situation) as I knew someone who was very into plays. So ... Is that something I would do alone? No. Maybe I'm just not that cultured :) But with company. Yea. (And it was way more fun than the movies).Quote:
For what it's worth, the dates being described don't sound expensive to me. They certainly sound like an amount that i'm not willing to spend once a week let alone more often on entertainment
I am middle aged now. You get older and you don't mind being settled for like you did in your indignant and righteous 20s. haha Just my experience of it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary B.
You are to going to "convince" her of anything. You can offer he altnatives, basically, I'm a little concerned about this relationship. Do you ever want to get married again? Because you seem to have very different values, about what is fun, about how to spend money, about quantities of belongings, housing, neatness....
I'm not actually asking the following questions for answers, just ask yourself, ok?
Is the sex/physical attraction that good?
What (else) are you getting out of this relationship?
Where do you see this going? In 5 years? Ten?
Is she really the most amazing woman you know? (are you making an effort to meet any others?)
I like walks in the park (I like walks down route 132 I'm easy). If my date showed up with a bag of groceries and a bottle of wine and put some music on and poured me a glass while he cooked for me, I'd be delighted. If he CAUGHT dinner (and showered) first, I'd be impressed. Which doesn't mean I don't also like a nice dinner out, a concert, or an afternoon of mini golf. But there are a lot of ways to spoil a woman and make her feel special. If her " love language" is having money spent on her and that makes you feel resentful instead of appreciated, you have a compatibility problem.
We used to live across the street from a couple with a 4 y.o. son. She worked in a bank. He kept the car, yard and house up, grew the garden, built a boat, caught, grew, and wild crafted amazing food (and with the help of the grocery store did all the cooking), cleaned, did laundry, and took good care of his son while passing on skills and knowledge. I thought he was amazing. His wife thought he was a bum because he didn't have a job. I love my husband and would not have traded, but he was wasted on that woman. And she made him unhappy. But he loved her. Do you love this woman enough to be unhappy for her?
I believe it was you, Rev. Ul, who said minimalism - or a "mustachian" set of life goals - http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/blog/ - is a meta-lifestyle, that it colors whatever it is you choose to do on a more specific level. If you and someone else don't have a meta-match, I don't know how serious the relationship could ever be. It's sort of like being a vegan and being told you can have all the pizza you want - just eat around the pepperoni and cheese. Doable for one pizza, but for a lifetime?
I agree with this. If she is flat out telling you what she feels is romantic and she wants a date that suits her twice a month, this honestly seems reasonable. Just as it would be reasonable to do things you like 2xs a month. But if you really don't enjoy what the other person picks for dates then how compatible are you? As for who pays, are you guys serious and been together a long time? Because it seems odd to know her salary, pension, 401k, etc and she to know yours, unless you are both just very open with this kind of thing or you are at the stage of combining households.Quote:
Originally Posted by rodeosweetheart
About 6 months into a LTR, me offering to pay was accepted every third time or so, we didn't really discuss it. We had common interests and uncommon interests. We mostly did stuff we both liked, but if one person really wanted to do something together that was not an interest of the other, we did it because that was uncommon. But the really different stuff, we did with our friends. He loved winter camping, I would do anything, including faking a cardiac event to get out of winter camping. He did this with his guy friends, surprisingly none of their significant others wanted to go either. And that was fine with him, totally fine with me. It did not bother me in the least that he was using precious "we time" because it was occasional and made him happy (we had kids and lived an hour apart, "we time" took planning). I love Wilco, he does not, but in this case he was happy to drive me to Massachusetts, sit under the stars, have a few beers and he always ended up loving the live show. I was happy to go with someone else, but very happy he actually wanted to be there for an experience I loved. Somewhere between 6-8 times over the years, lol. I think he secretly likes them, too, no one is that nice!
He also didn't think he liked museums, tried one, loved it, soon he was planning trips to museums. So he was capable of change on activities after exposure but not everything, like modern art. We were at Mass MoCA, he was so loud in a place of serene silence about calling everything "crap that I could do", and he kept TOUCHING the exhibits like a 3 yr old! I said I had food poisoning from lunch, we have to go right now, lol. Never to return to anything resembling modern art. And that was fine, I had that, he had winter camping. At least the odds of my nose freezing off were slim.
we were both happy reading for hours in front of the fire, often liked the same books, taking the dogs on trails, he liked "guy" movies but also independent film (that's like hitting guy lotto). Those things were free and neither was unhappy.
if you are only tolerating each other's date plans, neither of you finds a new interest through the other person, you both feel let down, it doesn't sound like a great match. Sure, exBF and I enacted change of opinions on certain things the other introduced us to, that's great but I found that to be rare among BFs. And attempting to change me down the road on things I hold dear, like values and beliefs, led to me ending the relationship.
I hope she learns that she loves fishing or camping and you find things you never knew you liked in her world. Because without any of that, I think a true relationship would be untenable. Partially, IMHO, because Ultralite, you are not a halfway kind of guy from what you've said here, you are clear in your beliefs and you do not sound like you can change them even if you wanted to. For your sake, I'd love to say I can see you in her 4 BR house with all her stuff, dates are dinners out and a movie, you pursue your things on your own, but I can't. I cannot picture you happy there, it sounds like the total opposite of the life you've said you are trying to live. My 2 cents and I hope you are not offended, that is not my intention at all. I hope you have a whole list of things you enjoy together and share a true love, that is more important than simplicity, yay or nay.
She and I have been dating on and off for the past two years. I broke up with her three times during that time citing differences in values and lifestyle. After a few months of being broken up she would then contact me and ask to try again.Quote:
Originally Posted by freshstart
So knowing about each other's finances is reasonable.
I do not like guy movies. I like independent films, sci-fi (the good stuff!), and foreign films, especially Brazilian cinema, though I do also enjoy quite of a bit of European film. She prefers rom-coms and dislikes movies with subtitles.
I do not expect her or any woman to enjoy fishing. haha It was a nice bonus that she went fishing a handful of times with me. For me, it was just like she was getting to know me by going fishing. She saw what I appreciate about it -- the sun or the rain, the breeze or the heat, the lovely clear water and the murky depths, etc. But it was also that she has such a busy schedule with work, her side job, her household chores, her dogs, etc. that she knew we would not be able to see each other those weekends if she did not go fishing with me. So she squeezed it in.
You did not offend me. I appreciate your insights!
You are correct. I am not the "half-way" type. I have always struggled in the dating realm because I am quirky and intense about life. Some would say "extreme." I say thorough! :)
Do either of you have any intention of getting married? If not, then I'd say dates should be split.
My husband and I only had 3 dates before we got engaged, granted they were spread out over 3 months because I was living 6 hours away.
I just don't see the point of of a couple dating 2 or 3 or 15 years (as in the case of an uncle of mine).
Good question. She has never been married before. She is "older." So I am not sure if she is "over it" or not. She does not talk about it really. We almost never talk about the future. She brought up "the future" once, about 2 months into dating the first go round. I brought the future up a couple times, once I did mention nuptials but did not get into any detail. It was more just feeling it out to see what she was thinking. I brought up the future last weekend. The conversation did not go well...Quote:
Originally Posted by Float On
Why not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Float On
I believe in marriage. I also believe that dating is a good way to find out if you are compatible with someone for marriage. If after a few dates there are incompatibility issues....why keep dating if you can't work through those issues? Heck, even after just 3 dates we felt our 6 month engagement was 3 months too long. The only thing that did was make the wedding bigger than we wanted.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
For my uncle. He drug the dating out for 15 years. His wife had really wanted to be married and raise a family and they completely missed that opportunity. By the time they did get married he had health issues and having a family was not possible. I just found that very selfish.
I am not keen on marriage but I am not against it. I'd do it if it was important to my significant other and/or the benefits were needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Float On
Did your uncle drag it out for so long to avoid getting married and/or having a family?
I don't want a family (god help me to stay this way! lol). So that would not be a concern for me.
Depends on their goals, depends on what you ( generic you) mean by "dating."Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
I might say "my goal is to have a happy, committed relationship for long term" and the details of where we live do not matter. And in fact separate dwellings might be preferable. To FloatOn that might look like dating if we didn't live in the same house. To me, it isn't dating if it's a committed relationship, if we are an established couple and if this meets both parties' goals.
I cant tell from the Rev.UL's description if this is dating still, but with all of his doubts about their conflicting values, this is not a committed relationship or at least he isn't comimited,,we don't know about her. And the problem with these kinds of half-in half-out relationships is that they take up all of your time, and you aren't free to find the person who is a match.
Yes he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler
dude, get snipped.Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler
But go to the best doc in the area, and aren't you in a big metro,area where there are many specialists? This isn't a time to cheap out.
There is a sad tale or two over on the MMM site about snipping experiences.
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
It was very selfless of his girlfriend to yield to his wants to be child-free.Quote:
Originally Posted by Float On
I wonder why he did not tell her he was not interested in having kids. I also wonder why she would, around year 14, still think her big day was going to come (followed promptly by a baby carriage).
I am scared of getting snipped! There is a correlation with dementia and other auto-immune diseases. I am just hoping that birth control works until my gf goes menopausal.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
What do you mean sad tale or two?
So if he had got married and had a family he didn't want the kids would have just had a dad that didn't want them. Lovely! I'm sure that would have worked out well. He should have been upfront with her about what he wanted and let her find someone else probably.
A lot of folks think that choosing to not have kids is the zenith of selfishness.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore
"I brought up the future last weekend. The conversation did not go well..."
It's great that you are openly communicating about your relationship and what you both want! However it goes in the future with this relationship, you have been honest and open with each other, which is a great thing.
I haven't read all the replies very closely in this thread, so i'm sorry if this has been mentioned before...but could you not have a frank and honest discussion with your girlfriend about how money is tight for you and explain your situation? explain how you want to have dates twice a month but could there be some frugalness to them sometimes and could she come to you sometimes to save your transportation costs?
maybe instead of dinner and a movie it could be a picnic and a movie or dinner and a Netflix movie with popcorn at home and snuggling. a little of both. find some free (or very inexpensive) plays/festivals/events to go see.
I believe in individuality; it's a cliche' to say the world would be a very boring place if we all marched in lockstep. But it's true. My SO has been married; he has children. I haven't been married and never wanted them. We've been together well over 30 years. the arrangement works for us. I guess I wouldn't call it "dating." Maybe that's the confusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Float On
I agree with you. I don't think marriage is for everyone or having kids is for everyone. I had no intention of ever considering getting married before age 28 (I had my life planned out) so it was kind of surprising to turn 23 while on our honeymoon. Actually DH and I when we dated and were engaged neither of us wanted children. It wasn't until we'd been married 6 years that we changed our minds. Actually I'd started thinking about children at about year 5 but decided I'd keep my mouth shut and if DH ever brought it up we'd see if we'd both changed our minds. He did bring it up about 6 months later and then we talked about that change of direction for 6 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
What you have does work for you because you both agreed to it. I would call it a relationship...not just dating. But dating is important in marriage too. Just yesterday we had a date for lunch and a walk around a lake we hadn't visited before about 30 minutes from us. DH paid this time, but sometimes I pay.
If DH died I don't think I would ever enter a marriage again. I would date, and I would enter a relationship, but I doubt I'd enter a marriage or even a live-in relationship. I really don't live well with others, I like my space and quiet and alone time.
I have read this thread with interest, as DH & I appeared to have some similar issues when we dated. I hesitated to reply b/c it can sound pretty bad to some people, and I can sound at times stupid or greedy, but oh well, I don't really care what anyone thinks of it anymore, and I know that DH & I are solid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Float On
1. DH and I dated for 3 years before getting engaged and married within the year after that. We broke up several times during the 3 years, partly b/c he was not interested in getting married again or in having children ever. I proposed to him in the first year or two, and he said, "No thanks. Nothing personal, just not doing that again." Instead of ending our relationship, I decided that he was the best person I knew, that I wanted to be with him, and figured it would end at some point b/c I knew I wanted kids. Instead, he came around to marriage and to kids. In fact, he had to propose a couple of times to convince me that he meant it.
2. DH was cheap. Not frugal--cheap. When we first started dating, he was making no money and I was earning plenty, so I paid for almost everything, no problem, including international mission trips that we both did. When he started making a little money, I'd get offended when he would spend it on crap or on futzing around on his Jeep and then tell me he couldn't afford anything that I wanted to do. I did make him take me out to dinner sometimes at that point--usually to an ethnic restaurant, nothing fancy. We broke up one time b/c he refused to spend money on a visit to see me (by then we lived a flight away from each other) after I'd spent money and vacation time visiting him more than once. He was earning some at that point. I needed to know that I was worth his time and his energy and his money. When he did show up, he brought an engagement ring. Before I accepted the ring, I got the stone changed--from a chip to a tiny stone. I made him pay for it.
3. I believe in marriage, and I believe in going "all in." When DH & I (finally) got married, I tackled his debt with our combined income, most of which was earned by me, as if it were OUR debt, because at that point it was. I was happy to eat rice & beans (kind of easy when you're hispanic) and spend very little and simply be together. There is a saying in Spanish, "Contigo, pan y cebollas." With you, bread and onions (is enough). I'm the one who has budgeted and invested and grown our net worth, not by my income alone (we've both had ups and downs with income) but by my work for our family as a single unit. DH doesn't know from budgeting or investing. He's a great DIYer and has saved us thousands in home repairs and improvements. We are a team.
UA, if I were your girlfriend, I'd think you care more about fishing than about me if that's where you're putting your money, your energy, and your time.
there were at least two vasectomies that the patients attribute to ongoing physical problems. I believe them.Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler
That is exactly what I thought my uncle should of done.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore
Well all forms of both control (except pure barrier methods) have potential risks. This is something a woman accepts, that all the methods suck somewhat - pick your poison, because it's she who will be pregnant and btw pregnancy also carries a risk.Quote:
there were at least two vasectomies that the patients attribute to ongoing physical problems. I believe them.